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Harry Kane, the Ballon d'Or and Marketing Lessons · Marketing Shed

• Warren Fiveash: Paul, it's lovely to see you as always. How's things going? Paul Duxbury: It's very good, but I think I'm in the wrong podcast because if I look at the the sign behind you I mean the market should add what's going on there? Warren Fiveash: Yes. I've got a story there. so not long before the podcast we we started this podcast, this fell off and then the letters dispersed on the floor and I they were too fiddly to get it back in. So for the time being I thought I'll keep it up. I thought it was a good funny thing to have in the background. We'll call we'll call ourselves the market shed today. Paul Duxbury: It's a bit like faulty towers. Some of our more mature listeners and viewers will know the reference. But, you know, we... Warren Fiveash: Am I in that category now? I guess I I do know what forty towels is, so maybe I'm in the mature category. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: There you go. But we are trying to give the impression that we are the UK's premier Warren Fiveash: Yes. Paul Duxbury: two weekly marketing focused podcast, not at all a niche. And that's what we're giving our viewers and listeners. Yes. Warren Fiveash: We are polished. We're polished in every other way apart from the sign behind me. Paul Duxbury: Indeed. Indeed. Warren Fiveash: And we we've got lots to talk about this week, haven't we? So Paul Duxbury: We have. Warren Fiveash: gonna talk about what you've been up to, Paul. Paul Duxbury: Yes. Warren Fiveash: we're gonna talk to we're gonna talk about airline experience and what that means. Paul Duxbury: Yes, are. Yes, linked to a famous person I've learned, but I'll come on to that. Warren Fiveash: I'm intrigued. I don't know that bit. I've got my s I've got similar experiences that I can share with you on that. And I'm going to talk about the Ballon Door and a few things around that, which it's very current. and then we're going to talk about what you're up to next, aren't we? So lots Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Yes, and you and you. Warren Fiveash: I had lots, yeah, lots to get into. Lots to get into. So what have you how have you how's your week been, Paul? Talk to me. Paul Duxbury: My week has been tremendous. I was at the University of Zlin. Do you know where the University of Zlin is? Warren Fiveash: do I know it No I don't. Paul Duxbury: disappointing. It's in the Czech Republic. So I had to go to Vienna and then I had to get a train from Vienna to Otrokovice and then I went to the University of Zlin and the town of Zlin, which is a fascinating town, I think really established effectively by a called Thomas Batya, who's a very famous entrepreneur. It has a fascinating office block. I know those two words, that sounds like a impossibility, but a fascinating office block, because Thomas Batcha insisted that when it was built, he had a lift that was an office. So there is literally a lift, and you walk into it, and it is a large executive office with desks and chairs and tables and office lighting. and a sink and a telephone. And allegedly, I don't think it was ever actually used for its intended purpose, but allegedly the idea was he could zoom up and down the floors, stop, open the doors, then he could do his management to the staff on floor number seven, then he could say, thanks very much, zoom down a floor. So he brought his office to his team as opposed to the other way around. How about that? Warren Fiveash: I have never heard of that before. I've heard of lots of things. That is new that's a new one on me. Paul Duxbury: Not even James Bond villains had Warren Fiveash: Ha. Paul Duxbury: thought of that. mean, Thomas Baty was far from a villain. He was a great benefactor, I believe. Warren Fiveash: It does it take does it take presentism to a new level? So it's like the boss is like checking on every floor to see if there are people at their desks. Paul Duxbury: It does, it does, it does. You're like, you you're there thinking, it's all good, you know, not getting a hard time from the boss. there he is. He's just come up from the fifth floor. So anyway, that Warren Fiveash: artists would I think that's Paul Duxbury: wasn't the reason I went to Zlin. That was an unexpected observation. I went Warren Fiveash: Bonus. Paul Duxbury: to, as a guest of the lovely Dagmar Webberover, And I went to present to the year four and then the year five students on their international marketing course. And I presented to them on becoming the marketeer you're going to be, sort of echoing the sort of thought processes of the late great Steve Jobs. And so I talked to them about how I got to where I'd got to in my career and suggest they do the exact opposite. if they want to make progress. But no, no. Warren Fiveash: You've been harsh, yeah. Paul Duxbury: And it was fascinating. what the students were lovely, very engaged. What I did notice, which I think is probably in hindsight, pretty obvious, but there you go, is that there is that gap to cross between education and practice. these students, fortunately for them, they do a year in industry or a year in the workplace as part of their five year program. But the challenge, I think, for students generally is to cross that gap between education and practice and to make sure they leave with the skills that businesses really need. We did a bit of a survey during the session, which helped the students create a personal learning program, but also gave us some information about what they are thinking and where they see the gaps. And I was slightly surprised that there seems to be a little bit of a gap between their comfort with the principles of marketing and the principles of good marketing strategy and planning and how to put that into practice. And I think it's because They get, they're not careful, they get locked into quite specialist work streams, but they need to see how it all joins up. So what I took away from that was, was there may be an opportunity to be even clearer with students about what are the foundations that are constant within our world of marketing? What can Warren Fiveash: Mm-hmm. Paul Duxbury: they always rely on? So that might be a topic that Dagmar and I pursue. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Yeah, but also what's really interesting is they're completely unfazed by AI. They are, dare I say it, AI natives. And I think that's quite encouraging because if they get those fundamentals right, then if they use AI on the human first, human last approach, they're going to have the ability to learn and develop and deliver quite rapidly. So yeah, really Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah. Paul Duxbury: interesting. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, I love that, Paul. It's a p the area I'm really passionate about, the future marketer and how people in this day and age with technology navigate AI and the world around them, but keeping those foundations at core. And so it's really it's really encouraging to hear what you just said around the fact if they get those bits right. And and they've got that familiarity of AI. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: think so. I think so. mean, it's good that they're au fait with technology. mean, was ever thus, tends to be as a sweeping statement that younger generations adapt to technology more swiftly. Caveat, watch out for silver surfers who Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: are active all over the place. we, Warren Fiveash: You're pretty SIPO, aren't you? Paul Duxbury: you know, link, exactly, link to that technology. We need to make sure that they know how to to make good judgment calls and that's where the confidence built around understanding the marketing fundamentals is critical. Warren Fiveash: And do you do you do you question on that? Do you think they're getting the same access that you would have got to courses that teach those fundamentals? Is that still available to people? Young people? Paul Duxbury: I think the curriculum at the University of Zlin was pretty comprehensive. But I just wonder if having done the five years, there might be the benefit of some sort of consolidation piece at the end to say, Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paul Duxbury: these are the foundations, these are the things that will change. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Be aware of that and always stay true to the foundations, but be prepared to flex on the Warren Fiveash: To navigate. Paul Duxbury: on the things that might vary over time. I think that Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: might be quite a useful context piece. Anyway, so Warren Fiveash: Yeah, love that. Great, you love them. Paul Duxbury: that was me in the wonderful world of Czech and office elevators. How about you? Warren Fiveash: Yeah, so I guess my what I've been up to this week and what I've seen this week will kind of overlap here a little bit. So I'm gonna talk about the Ballon d'Or a little bit before we talk about airlines. Paul Duxbury: Did you go to the Ballon d'Or? Were you invited to the ceremony? Warren Fiveash: I'm glad I didn't, 'cause it sounded like a disaster, didn't it? It's it was delayed Paul Duxbury: I did. Warren Fiveash: by hours, wasn't it? not sure who's planning the event, but it yeah, it could have been could have been smoother, couldn't it, by the looks of it. But Paul Duxbury: I didn't see, I saw the winner being in the news, but I didn't see any of the build up. Warren Fiveash: No, I've I only heard about it through other voices and people talking about it in the news and actually watch it. My brother watched the whole thing, which went on for about four hours. But Paul Duxbury: Blimey Warren Fiveash: yeah, no, I didn't. But I d obviously I was rooting for the one and only Harry Kane to win. Paul Duxbury: Bayern Munich, Harry Kane. Warren Fiveash: By Meaning Carrie Kane, former Tottenham hotspur, Paul. Paul Duxbury: Was he really a totem? Was he really? Yeah, he's only come good since he's been in Germany, I believe. Is that right? Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was. He was. I'm taking I'm taking his win as a trophy for Spurs, you know, we need as many as we can get. So but I thought Spurs Paul Duxbury: Really? Hang on, there's a straw. There's a straw. I'm just clutching at that straw. Warren Fiveash: will take anything they can get, Paul. but this isn't a football podcast. so I I just think, you know, I other than being a brilliant role model, I think there were some lessons there from the Ballon d'Or itself and from Harry Kane. Paul Duxbury: Mm. Warren Fiveash: and some marketing lessons within that. It's an interesting process, right? So the Ballon d'Or recognises the kind of well, it's meant to recognise who is the best footballer on the planet, right? At any given year. Harry Kane won that. Actually I thought his own lesson around work hard in silence, let success be your noise Paul Duxbury: Mmm. Warren Fiveash: was a really interesting one because actually if you think about how you apply that to marketing, if you think about And an era of obsessed with visibility and stunts and kind of always being always on. You know, if you think about modern marketing rewarding call almost the loudest voice sometimes, you know, personal brands and vanity metrics and stunts and things like that. His message was about delivery, right? Focusing on the delivery and the mastery and letting the results Paul Duxbury: Yes. Yeah. Warren Fiveash: let the results do the talking, right? So you know, if you think about it from a marketing point of view, attention getting you noticed, but if your what you do is really excellent and that that's the thing that gets you remembered, right? The thing that gets you remembered is the excellence. Paul Duxbury: Yes. Warren Fiveash: So don't confuse visibility with value. Some of the Paul Duxbury: I was going to say, because I agree with your analysis. It'd be difficult in the world of marketing to say, let your silence be the noise. Because of course we are a communications function. But no, Warren Fiveash: Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: I'm being rather literal there. I think your point is very well made. And Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Harry came from Bayern Munich's point. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, and I think, that's a really valid point. You can't be completely silent as a marketer. Obviously, that that's yeah, that's not gonna happen. But you get the point right, I think Paul Duxbury: Mm. Warren Fiveash: within that. but I think the other thing I thought was interesting was this point around the sort of narrative of the different individual players. So many people think about the stats and you know, the argument for people getting the most goals and things like about like that. But actually the narrative is what makes people care, right? So people remember the story rather than just the numbers. So no one's falling in love with data. They fall in love with what the data means. So obviously Harry Kane's got a lot of goals, but I don't think that's ex that's predominantly why people voted for him. It was a s the story around it. and the fact that he perhaps deserved this over a number of years. And obviously had a really exceptional year, an excellent year, but Perhaps the narrative around him is the thing that won it. And it made me think about whether the Ballon d'Or is positioned correctly, actually. So I think the intended positioning is meant to be this is for the best player in the world. But actually what many football fans think maybe is is it the most famous attacking player of the year? is it the the the forward or you know, the one who's got the most flair, the most exciting Paul Duxbury: Mmm. Warren Fiveash: player? Because many people were debating over Harry Kane and whether he should win because maybe he's not. a flair player per se. He's scored loads of goals, but actually a a Mbappe or a a is more gonna get you off your seat basically. And so there was a l big debate around that. you know, defenders never win it, So it sort of heavily favors certain assets. So I think Yeah, it's in it was interesting in the way it's positioned and the debate around it and actually I wondered if they've quite got that right. and whether, people across the continent are fully all bought in, or are we as bought in in the UK, maybe is elsewhere. Does the name have an impact on that? Yeah. Paul Duxbury: I think it does. I Ballon d'Or, it sounds like Balloon, doesn't it, to an English, ignorant English ear like mine. And Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: yeah, I think they could market it a lot better. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: I think it's a bit of a sideshow in the UK. It's getting more prominent. Harry Kane obviously helped. But Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: I don't think every player is like, I want to win the Ballon d'Or or maybe if they are, I don't think every fan is that worried about who wins a Ballon d'Or. Warren Fiveash: No, no, I agree. I agree. And I think it meant a lot to us this time because I think a lot of people were rooting for Harry Kane to win it. So it was a bit of a maybe it had more noise around it this year from that point of view. And it was in London, it was at the palladium. So I think that that made a difference. But I just I thought it was really good to see someone, and I think this is a lesson for all of us, who holds themselves with good sort of integrity and is a kind, decent human being who isn't kind of isn't ironically isn't selfish, even though they wanted to win that award. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Warren Fiveash: Win it. without kind of doing campaigning for himself, I think he let he let that personality and that that shine through really and that kind of beat maybe what is traditionally thought of as someone you know, footballers often thought as arrogant and kind of self preserving, aren't they? You think of certain footballers out there that do that. And so it was nice to see someone like that win it. And I think I wondered if there's a lesson there for how the people that run the Ballandor frame and position this in the future. Actually maybe there's there's a trick they're missing there and how they set the criteria and how they're positioning it in my cord. Paul Duxbury: Well, maybe there should be a Ballon d'Or equivalent for competitions like that. And maybe the Ballon d'Or organizing team can reflect on recent events and say, how can we do better? And I think they should give you a call. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah, I'm here. I'm here, I'm available. If they need me. Then just give just give me a call and I'll I'll be I'll I'll come in. As long as I get to meet Harry Kane at some point, that's all I wanna that's all I wanna do. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Yes, yes, yes. Warren Fiveash: But tell me, Paul. Tell me about your ex recent airline experiences and what happened there. Paul Duxbury: yes. Now, so funnily Warren Fiveash: I'm skipping ahead too quickly here. Paul Duxbury: enough, so I went to Portugal before I went to Czech. Yes. And Warren Fiveash: So international poem. Paul Duxbury: imagine how you would feel if you turn up at Heathrow for your flight. You've been unable to check in on the app. When you get to Heathrow, you try and check in at the self-service terminals. That doesn't work. So you speak to a member of staff and they tell you, have to go and queue up and speak to a person at the check-in desk. You queue up and you see the person at the check-in desk. And then they say, well, the reason you can't check in is because you've been randomly selected. Congratulations. You've been randomly selected to be on standby because the flight is overbooked and you may or may not get on the flight. Imagine how you'd feel about that. Warren Fiveash: I thought you were gonna say you you got upgraded for a sec, but that I would feel pretty annoyed about that. Paul Duxbury: You would feel annoyed, wouldn't you? It's the opposite of being upgraded. How do you think you would then feel if you arrived at your destination having eventually got on the plane, only to find your bag had been left at Heathrow because there was not enough time between you being given one of the last available seats and to get your bag from the storage place? Warren Fiveash: Well, I'd think surely this happens a lot and so surely they have to deal with this all the time. So why has that happened? Paul Duxbury: Well, it feels like insult to injury, doesn't it? And Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: I have to say, I've discovered through experience that in those situations, you can never complain and come off looking good. You always look like a bit of a dick. However, however Warren Fiveash: Not Paul Duxbury: fair your complaint is. So I deliberately did not get air-raised about this. I just took Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: it in my stride. But what I observed were... A few things actually, because to be fair enough, the airline did a pretty good job of, in this instance, tracking the bag and telling me where the bag was and getting the bag to me within, I think it was within a day of it Warren Fiveash: yeah. Yeah. okay. Paul Duxbury: being left behind. So their systems were quite good. Where it fell down was, I think in at least two areas, if not three, one was that they did not tell me before I was put on standby that I was being put on standby. So if you've got systems that can track your bag, why wouldn't you communicate to say you're Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: on standby, not great, but we're telling you in advance. Secondly, I was passed from person to person. So from check-in to gate, from gate to flight dispatcher, from flight dispatcher to the lost property people regarding the the seat on the plane and the status of the bag. All those people were quite friendly, but none of them were able to take ownership of the problem. Literally one of them said, well, my system won't tell me. Another one said, well, I can't, I know your bags over there in that building, but I can't do anything about it. So they were, I suppose empathetic in the moment, but they couldn't take ownership of the problem. And then I also noticed on the communications, I got an email saying my bag had been lost. And in that email, it said what a valued customer I was. And at that moment, I didn't feel like the most valued Warren Fiveash: Value. Paul Duxbury: customer having been put on standby and having had my bag left behind at Heathrow. So it just struck me as marketers that when we're looking to deliver customer experience, it's really hard. And technology can help. The technology helped track the bag. It helped send me the emails. But the technology was just a bit behind where it needed to be. And it was the human bit that was missing. It was the human bit to join the dots together and take accountability that was missing. And that's what led to the issues. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, that's fascinating. It's a hybrid approach, isn't it, that's required. I sometimes think when you're stuck behind a desk thinking about your marketing plan and how you adjust for the custom the customer experience. So when things go wrong, people often think if you've got a good sort of journey or reaction to like something going wrong and you've got a good, you know, email journey that you can send out to people, that's kind of problem solved, but actually If the people on the front line haven't got accountability and can't deal with it there and then and make you feel valued, then that's the bigger problem. Paul Duxbury: think so. think so. And the best bit in the whole experience was the person on a phone line who, when I rang to say, please, could you tell me when my bag will arrive, said without prompting, you know, I understand the issue. I'm going to send you a 50 quid voucher so at least you can cover some of your expenses for things that you haven't got in the meantime. So she was able to take ownership and do something Warren Fiveash: W Paul Duxbury: practical. Warren Fiveash: Was that after the event? So you rang up and Paul Duxbury: That was whilst the bag was lost and only delayed and before it had been delivered to me. But interestingly, I mentioned a famous person. So that was my experience. I was surprised and somewhat vindicated to read about another well-known person in the world of politics complaining about exactly the same issue, the Warren Fiveash: Mm-hmm. Paul Duxbury: being put on standby, the bags being left behind. And it was none other than Mr. Richard Tice, who I think is the deputy chair or the chair of Reform ex recounting their experience. So clearly this is not an isolated thing and clearly the airline Warren Fiveash: Fame airline. Paul Duxbury: in question has got a bit more Warren Fiveash: Well Paul Duxbury: work to do to get the experience right. Warren Fiveash: I did hear someone else talking on a famous podcast, a footballer, I think it was Gary Neville, was saying that they turned up to the airport and their flight was overbooked by about thirty people or thirty forty people or something. Paul Duxbury: Wow. Warren Fiveash: so it does seem to be more of a common occurrence and I'm not sure why. I guess my question is Paul Duxbury: Hmm, interesting. Warren Fiveash: why do you think there isn't that accountability, I suppose? like is there a thing with airlines where they're missing a trick? Is it coincidence? I don't I don't know. maybe we don't know the answer, but it it feels like with airlines and I guess you have to be quite reactive, right? as an airline, 'cause things happen. you know, delays, that kind of thing that you you're not in control of. But why is there no accountability? You think this happens all the time. Why Paul Duxbury: Yes, I don't know, Warren. I I do appreciate airlines are a very complicated business. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: I'm sure there's, there are answers, but I suspect they're quite deep answers to do with culture as opposed to any particular process as Warren Fiveash: Yeah. I I wan Paul Duxbury: such. Warren Fiveash: I wonder if it's when an airline gets too big. I had a similar experience with two well, I'll say similar. someone there was an intruder on our flight while we were at the on the on the ground still at Gatwick. Paul Duxbury: That's not similar at all. Warren Fiveash: That's not similar at all. but there was an intruder got on our flight. And I mean that's never happened. he got through the gate somehow and then managed to get on before someone outpended him. But the lack of Communication from the sort of deck and the and the staff on board was was very apparent. And then a lack of kind of communication after. Because there was a fault in the s safety and the security of Paul Duxbury: Mmm. Warren Fiveash: A from the airport and the people that run the security, and then B from allowing them to get through the gate and onto the flight. And there was just a real lack of communication and ownership around that, following the experience, which just made you feel like really devalued as a customer. Actually we don't fly with that airline anymore because we were like we were like, well, if they had come to us and said we apologize, okay, there's some things out of our control, but equally here's some sort of compensation for it. It doesn't need to be a lot. Then we might have felt differently, but there was this not there was this nothing, even on the day Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Warren Fiveash: or after. I think I think there's just generally something overall about communication airlines and things go wrong. I think that's more often than not when you lose people, people get annoyed. So there's something about the customer experience there and for marketers and customer experience people to think about, isn't there? Paul Duxbury: Agreed. Now, did you want to talk more about the Ballon d'Or or have you got other observations from the week past? Warren Fiveash: did I want to talk more about the Ballandor? I don't think so. I just think it's good. It was an interesting kind of marketing applications there from kind of some of the things I saw. And I think I think highlighting the fact it isn't just about kind of individual performance, it's about character as well, is kind of is what I was thinking. So like the reputation of of the said person, the quality of the person of the trust essentially, which again Similar to brands, I suppose. You're not it's not just the the flashy bit, it's the all the bit around it, the trust and the reputation of someone so and and telling the story well and effectively. And I think the story around Harry was just there. So yeah. Paul Duxbury: Fascinating, fascinating. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Well, shall I tell you what I'm up to in the next couple of weeks? Warren Fiveash: Go and tell me, Paul. Paul Duxbury: Well, this is not good for my carbon footprint, apologies. But, but, but, face-to-face training, learning, skill Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: development, capability building, face-to-face is back. So I am Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: in Switzerland next week, face-to-face. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: I am in... San Francisco, would you believe, the week after, Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: face to face, and then I'm in Genoa of all places, face to face. And the point here is not to sort of brag about my fridge magnet collection from these exotic venues, but the point is that it's about extremes, Warren Fiveash: That's a feature. Paul Duxbury: right? So COVID or pre-COVID, all face to face. COVID and post-COVID, all virtual. Clearly. Both of those are extremes. And we're now somewhere in the middle where we Warren Fiveash: In the middle. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: have face-to-face taking its rightful place as perhaps the most intense element of any learning program surrounded by virtual elements. Or we have purely virtual things where it's a very specific skill that can be communicated over formats like this. So I'm pleased that it's taken. Six years to get some balance, but we're in a better place because of it in terms of face-to-face versus virtual training and skill building. How about that? It is six years. Yeah. Warren Fiveash: Can you believe it's six years? I can't believe it's six years. I like I like that. I feel the same that we're getting to a bit of a sweet spot of face to face and virtual. It's kind of saying, I Paul Duxbury: Yes. Warren Fiveash: pretty long. When are we gonna get face to face with this podcast Paul? We need to do that, don't we? Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Yeah, we do. We do. mean, you'd think there'd be people inviting us to events or... Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Didn't somebody... The rest is politics. They sold out Wembley Arena recently. It's that sort of thing. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, we could do that. It's the or a section of Wembley Arena, maybe Paul Duxbury: Yes, or my shed. Warren Fiveash: Couple of spots in there, isn't there? Paul Duxbury: Yes. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, but maybe bu buy tickets now, maybe we need a few more subscribers. So that's a there we go. There's a shout out. If we're listening, subscribe. Paul Duxbury: Well, queued off to the students in Zlin who signed up, subscribed with alacrity. Warren Fiveash: Ten. Eleven. Paul Duxbury: are a, shout out year four, year five. Thank you very much for Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Face to face. Paul Duxbury: doing that. Yeah. Warren Fiveash: face to face marketing, wasn't it there? Word of mouth. Straight to the straight and direct. So yeah, Paul Duxbury: And how about you, Warren? What are you up to? Warren Fiveash: I'm going away for the weekend with the family for Halloween Paul Duxbury: Bye! Warren Fiveash: weekend to nowhere to glamorous, going to Kent. sorry, there there is something glamorous about Kent. Kent's lovely, isn't it? But Paul Duxbury: Yes. Yes. Warren Fiveash: we're going to a caravan park, gonna celebrate Hall Paul Duxbury: lovely. Warren Fiveash: Halloween. So I'll be sort of taking in the experience there and spotting if there's any issues of their kind of customer experience or or marketing and reporting back to you on the Paul Duxbury: Yes, keep a close eye. That sounds very winter warming being Warren Fiveash: It is. Paul Duxbury: in a caravan in the dark, Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: bonfire nights, sort Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: of rockets going off all around you. That sounds great. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah, there is fireworks as well. So, yeah these these places are good in the winter as well as in the summer and the kids love it. Paul Duxbury: Yes, yes. Well enjoy, enjoy and I shall bring back news from places near and far. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: And I'm not taking a bag with me, at least I'm not putting one in a hold. I'm just going to take hand luggage and... Warren Fiveash: This well, this this is this is the be d do you know what? There's a wider point here. my wife and I got a bit fed up with flying last year with the kids and actually we're tempted just to stay in the country next year 'cause we don't want to deal with the hassle. So there is a wider point here about staycation and the experience Paul Duxbury: Yes, yes. Warren Fiveash: of it. And it's not saying it's perfect because you don't guarantee the weather, but that yeah, yeah. I think there's something about the the customer experience of a holiday. Paul Duxbury: 100%. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Enjoy the rest. Warren Fiveash: Yes. Thank you, Paul. And well, I don't know if it'd be a rest, but we'll see. We'll see next week what state I'm in. when I come back. So yeah, look forward to seeing you then and hearing more about your trip face to face. Thanks. Paul Duxbury: Take care mate, bye for now. Warren Fiveash: Have a good one.