Latest / Around the Kinky Kampfire Podcast / Boundaries, Red Flags, And Growth with Author, Shannon Elliot | S4 EP104

Transcript

Boundaries, Red Flags, And Growth with Author, Shannon Elliot | S4 EP104 · Around the Kinky Kampfire Podcast

• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Around the Kiki Campfire.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: Grab a seat, pour a drink, and let's turn up the heat.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: This is the podcast where we explore the wild, wonderful, and sometimes wicked world of kink, BDSM, and alternative lifestyles.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: Whether you're a seasoned player, a curious newbie, or just here for the stories, we've got something for you.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: Join us on Thursdays on your favorite podcast platform as we share experiences, dive into deep discussions, and may even spark a little fire of your own.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: No shame, no judgment.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_03: Just real talk around the kinky campfire.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Let's get lit.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome everybody to another episode of Around the Kinky Campfire.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I have myself here, the host, the Immaculate H H Julius Marquise, or just Julius if you're feeling less fancy.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually have a guest with me today.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: So if you look at the episode time, it is a little bit longer than it usually is, maybe like double or so, depending how much time we have left.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: My friend! Been forever.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Hello.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Who are you?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: And are we still friends?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's been like forever since we've talked on a recorded platform.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, for everyone listening.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Shannon Elliott.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was on an episode or two like a year ago, and then the world just did the world's thing, and I fell off the radar in terms of around the kinky campfire.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm black.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: We are still friends.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't we never stop being friends, by the way.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yay.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I'm really excited to be back.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Hooray.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody clap in the in the in the campsters.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, out there clapping while they're listening.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure they are in their car or their couch.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yes.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: We are still and then maybe we'll find out, uh, depending on what Shannon wants to share, of what was going on.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: I've heard about it.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: Will you?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: Question mark, find out in a few minutes of this episode.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh for now.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I forgot.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: I this has been so long since I've had somebody.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: I forgot I have a name.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: I am not Julius Marquise.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: I am Edel, the noble one.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: If anybody still remembers my bit from so long ago, because it's been a long time since I had anybody on the show, I used to do a thing where I would come up with names until I'd officially changed my name to Julius Marquise.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: But one thing we didn't forget is I have a drink.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have a drink, Shadow?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: Shadow can haired.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um still not sponsored by anything, but I have uh key lime Um might be a video.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: I'll probably cut that part out if it's not a video.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: But for right now, I can I can show what I have.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: I have key lime, sparkling water, and then we have our ASMR.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: It was like a minute, but now it's 30 seconds, but really it's only like two seconds.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: So an account of 321, Shannon, let's just drink for as long as we can, even if it's half a second.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Three hiccups.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, ASMR.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: If you listen to previous episodes, Camtors, you know I choke on my liquids.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: I've done it before.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: Hard to take it down in one swallow.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um so and it's very cold.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Too much, too much.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Have you not been on this podcast before?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: That is exactly what too much to swallow.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: You hate it when you're a spitter.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, okay, so we I have key lime.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's not sponsored, but yet we will still take sponsors.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: There we go.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so Shannon.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: Time to stop messing around.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_03: Where have you been in the desert of uh a place long ago that we don't know where?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: Please fill us in.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: We're all on the edge of our seats wanting to know what happened.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I did that thing that everyone accuses people of and no one likes to admit to, but I will admit to it where I got a boyfriend and I forgot the rest of the world existed for a couple months.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, how could you?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I know, I know.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was really sad.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, relationship was the whole thing, but um, we dated for about five months, and over the course of that period of time, like I lost quite a bit of myself.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wasn't really sure who I was when I came out of that relationship.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it meant that I had a lot of friendships and relationships that petered off.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's been a year since I've been hanging out with Sir Julius.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, but if we want to talk about that more, I'm happy to spill all of the tea.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: I have no qualms with that.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Shannon, if you have any helpful tips for people that got lost in relationships, uh, you can go ahead and share what you like uh consensually.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, you guys won't hear it because I edited it out.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think the biggest thing that really helped me in terms of like navigating my way post-relationship was the fact that I did manage to hold on to some really core friends and had some checkpoints throughout the way that really helped me identify that, like, oh, this relationship is not being conducted in a way that is in accordance with my values.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the things that I said that I stood for and that I believed in and I wanted out of my life is not how this is going.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so for some context, I am bisexual, I am kinky, I am queer, I um am solo polyamorous.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so the idea of me being in a relationship to begin with was kind of a big deal.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the idea that like I would take on a partner in the way that I did um was a huge shift, very much in alignment more with a monogamous relationship style, with the traditional like escalator relationship.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um and there were so many red flags that I ignored um and just not even ignored, but just like let pass by.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And like I didn't really notice them because I was focused on this other thing, that I didn't see signs that like I wasn't the person I said I wanted to be.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um I had some really great friends who stuck with me and like would nudge me and say, like, hey, this doesn't sound like you.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and in the end, I was visiting with a bunch of like kinky author friends.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they were hearing the stories that my best friend had been hearing for five months, and they said, I'm sorry, what?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um so like one of the big things, um for some context.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: This person and I, we met in December of last year, so of 2024.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and by mid-January, we were quote unquote in a relationship.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it was something that when I look back on, I felt very pressured into by like some of our friends and the expectations of this other person and just like a lot of the other things that were going on.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um and as someone who for a long time now has said that I'm solo polyamorous, that I want to have multiple partners, multiple relationships, that I want to maintain my autonomy when it comes to my living situation, my finances, um like those types of things, those big kind of pillars of being an individual.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think that got pushed to the wayside.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um so we dated for about four, four and a half months, five months, something like that.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Four to five months.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so basically January until May.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And in that time, the cliff notes became that he basically moved in with me to the point where one of my friends literally fell on the floor when I told her that he had bought a mattress for my apartment.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um he got tired of sleeping on my bed, and so he bought a king-size mattress because he wanted that, and I said, okay.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um as someone who is child-free by choice, he has four of them um of various ages, and I won't say that, just like a teenager and some younger kids.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so there were a lot of different components of us as individuals that were not in alignment with what I had said I wanted out of life.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I just had to learn that the hard way.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so come May, when I saw all of my friends from um Smut Lovers, I was on a trip with them and filling them in on my life, and they looked at me like I had lost my mind because in a way I had.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was full on rose-colored glasses and involved in a relationship that um was ultimately not for me, so it ended.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we've been coming back online after that.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote a book, processed a lot of emotions about it, um, got to see Julius at the conference, and then now we're here talking about all of it.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I got uh I got uh filled in with all the information, which is very interesting for me as well.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: Now I don't uh don't know you as long as your friends, but yes, I was uh sh shocked to say the least by this information.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, two two uh two months, then moving in.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um want to talk about red flags, because everybody has questions about red flags.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: The people on YouTube, the people the sub the Reddit people, um, and the cancellors know this, and I'm a big Redditor or peruser.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: And there's always like a red flag question in there.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: So for you, what is your philosophical stance on red flags?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do they exist?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Of course they exist.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm confused by the question.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I will answer the question, and then you can have an opinion about it.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I view red flags as not like relationship killers or potential for relationship killers.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: My thing is if somebody has a red flag, how willing are they to do some self-retro self-reflection when I give them information that it's like uh contrary to what they think.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: So for example, somebody's rude to like Waitstaff, that's like a huge thing on pretty much everybody's list.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: If I point out to the fact that, hey, you're pretty rude to that person, and they really didn't do anything, and it's not their fault.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: If they're like, no, I didn't, I'm like, oh well, this is gonna end right here.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: This is not gonna be a thing.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: But if they're like, oh, you know what?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: Even if it's like a day or two later, which in that case I'm just gonna be hyperbolic about it, I probably wouldn't contact them afterwards.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: They would have to contact me.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: And that's pretty much it.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: Even after the post-date recap text that usually happens, I'm like, ah, I don't even want to talk to this person.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: But if they're like, you know what, I was really having a bad day, I'm not usually like that.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: Can we go out again?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, or just like, or do you want to go out again?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, alright, so they had a bad day.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: Let's see if they do it again.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: So my thing is like some people are very like red flags, no.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like I'm more not even like aware or above it all, but it's like I I take all kind of factors into consideration.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm very much a fan of the scientific method uh experimentation, which is huge to me because people aren't willing to go out and try things, and then it's like they try it once, and it's like, no, you have to try it at least three times before it becomes a law or whatever.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: Scientific method.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, it's like two to three times, depending on how I'm feeling, is like I'll I give somebody the benefit of the doubt.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: So if it's something that's like a huge red flag, like uh you broke a law or something like that, it's like why?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: Explain to me why.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: And if it's like just because, then I'm out as well.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: There's a bunch of things um that will just get me out, but it's like I'm I'm I want to know why, and if you can't answer that question, then that's a red flag for me.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: So depending on what it is.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why I was asking.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, are you one of those people who's like red flags, I'm completely out, or do you like try to find out more information?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: He says I think there's certain situations where I'm definitely like red flag, I'm out.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, those tend to be the like really obvious ones, like you kick a puppy.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like, sorry, no, I'm not even gonna listen to your reason for why you kicked the puppy.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm just gone.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think that for me, a lot of red flags, um first of all, I think that it's very easy to say that we'll recognize red flags when they come up, when sometimes it's a lot more nuanced than that, which I think is kind of what you're getting at, where it's like there may be logic behind it, there may be a lot of emotions behind it.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: For me, red flags are something where it's like once I recognize that there's a problem or like a conflict of values, I want to know why, like you do.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: But also I want to know if the person has the capacity for change in a way that would make me feel like there's a resolution to it.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think capacity is the key word for it because change does take time.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: If you're rude to waiters, that's a thing that needs to happen immediately.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not hard just to be not be a dick.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: But like there are certain changes that may take like repeated behaviors and like repeated like mindfulness to create that change.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so there are certain things where it's like, do you are you aware of what's going on that I see as a red flag?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And do you have a willingness to change?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And do you have the capacity to change?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because willingness and capacity are two different things as well.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Where it's like you may want to change, you may see something as a problem and like say, Oh yeah, I want to be better or whatever.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: But like, are you actually in a position with the skills to make that change happen?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: And when it's a red flag, is when all of those are a no.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the red flag popped up, you are unwilling to change, you don't have the capacity to change, you're not even aware that you need to make a change.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are when it becomes a red flag.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: The rest of them, it's kind of like well, yellow-orange flag kind of thing.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: And you said the buzzword there, capacity for change.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: So we can go ahead and end this now.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: You said the ding special word of the day, and then that's it.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's it, right?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect, we're done.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we are done.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: Bye.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: See you later.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_03: See you in a year.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, oh yeah.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: Do we does it double every single time?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: So the second time, is it two more years, two years, and then four years?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, math joke.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'll be back sooner than that, I'm sure.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: So the capacity for change.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: And then we talked about this before too, and it made me think about it.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: I actually kind of did an episode after we talked about it.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: Is for me when I have a partner, so compacity for change.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_03: I see a red flag, quote unquote.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I can kind of do that.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: My fingers don't disappear.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: Some people might might not know what I'm talking about, but my fingers disappear every now and then.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um Capacity for change with a partner is like I I know how to fix it.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: But then it's like I'm also a partner, so if I send somebody an article or a video and they don't want the change by looking at it, or they don't have the self-awareness or anything like that.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's like how much do I force the issue, spend energy, time, and all that?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: So that's another thing for me, too, with the capacity for change, is if they don't know how willing are they to do some kind of research on it.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: So we've talked a lot, and we know stuff because we educate people, but not everybody's like that.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of people are in different paths and journeys on the self-awareness space.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: So for me, I know I have to like realize that I'm not an educator in this particular relationship.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_03: I am the partner.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't really rant as I would on a podcast like this with a partner, especially if we're like cuddling in bed or something like that.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I'm not here to be an educator, I'm here to cuddle.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: And um I wonder for you, do you have like a a line that you draw?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, alright, I'm gonna help you this much, but after this, I ain't got the time for it.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you had asked me in the front half of this year, I would have had a different answer than what I have now.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, maybe I was like I knew what I was asking.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think previously I would have said that I have a very high capacity to educate while I'm in a relationship with someone.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um I used to think that it's part of a partner journey to kind of like learn together.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's true to an extent still, where it's like everyone should always be learning, growing, improving themselves, kind of thing.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we all learn at our own pace and we all learn about different things at different times.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now I have a very low threshold for education within my relationships.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: Also, there's a lot of it is not my response.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: Learning together and then educating your partner though.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: If if you come to me and you say, I'm new, like in a kink space, if you come to me and you say, I'm new to kink, I'm like, okay, I have follow-up questions because if I'm interested in you enough to want to continue to like see where this goes, I want to see where you're at.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of my follow-up questions involve like the first question I ask literally everyone that I am potentially engaging with in a dynamic or playing with, um, specifically when it comes to power dynamics and domination and submission, is what does domination look like for you and what does submission look like for you?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think it tells you a lot about how people see power dynamics and how they see power play and kink and BDSM.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so there's like a series of questions in my head that I start to go through with partners who say either they're new or experienced, because it's like I want to gauge on my own scale how experienced they are.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can be in the lifestyle for years and still have a like beginner level understanding of kink.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so like if I'm talking to someone and they say, yeah, I'm new to the like kink space, I'm new to the swinging space, the queer space, like whatever.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but here's the research that I've done, here's the like books I've read, here's the podcasts I've listened to, here's the exploration I've done on my own.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's really helpful for me because it shows me that someone is actively taking like an interest in pursuing that versus someone who says, Oh, I'm looking for a partner to help me explore what it means to submit to someone.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's typically what I get with a lot of people is men who want to submit to a strong woman.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like I get a lot of people who are like, oh, I've never done this before.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping to find someone who will like guide me or teach me.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm at a point now where I'm like, it's not my job to teach you.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: That is a self-exploration thing for you, that is a self-journey that you need to go on.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um I can give you resources, I can point you in the direction that I might explore if I was in your position, but it is not my job to hold your hand because ultimately when it comes to either a play relationship or like an actual like um intimate relationship of like a romantic kind or something like that, um, like a partnership, my job is to be your partner.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: My job is to be your play partner, your like Dom, your sub, your whatever.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: And in order to do that, I can't be explaining as I go along.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's why the negotiation period happens.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And if there are questions that come up in the negotiation period, then like that's fine.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: We can answer those, we can go through those.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: But like, oh God.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: When I first started specifically exploring my own like dominant side, I had a guy come to me and he was like, Yeah, I'm really into TPE or total power exchange.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, okay.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then I he kept talking and I was like, hold on, what does that mean to you?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Oh, well, I just really want to like give up everything to someone and like totally submit to someone.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, hold the phone.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: You don't actually know what total power exchange is.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: PPE is like a whole dynamic where like everything is handed over.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Finances, routines, decision making, like what you wear, what you eat, like everything is given over to a dominant typically.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Kink is customizable.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: We can always like find a nuance in everything, but for the most part, total power exchange means everything is up to the dominant.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Submissive has no say outside of their negotiations and what limits they've like contracted.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I explained that to this man, and he went, oh yeah, I have no interest in doing that.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Okay.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that was very early on.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this was old Shannon that thought that I could educate and be in dynamics and relationships with people at the same time.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so, like, I do think that like as an educator, I want people to know what they want.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to be able to like help people on their journeys, but it is not my responsibility to hand that information to you and like be the one to walk you through it.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I hate the concept of training a submissive.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's so fucked up.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's the idea of training a submissive in the context in which I see it the most is more often than not a manipulation tactic that is trying to coerce someone into being something that they're not.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: I see it a lot where, and again, there's very like heteronormative gender norms going on here.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: An older male dominant and a younger female submissive will meet, decide that they want to explore a dynamic.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: She's less experienced, he is supposedly more experienced, and he offers to train her, is what I see a lot.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, what happens in that scenario is that he teaches her what submission means to him, and he is explaining what he wants out of dynamic rather than her saying, this is what submission means to me, and this is what I'm hoping to get out of a dynamic.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of boundaries can easily get crossed in that situation because a newer submissive might think, like, oh, well, this is what's expected of me.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you don't have to do everything.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And just because someone is into something doesn't mean that you have to be receptive to that.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the whole thing with like everybody has this really odd misconception that like impact play has to include pain play when fundamentally impact play is sensation play.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so like I see it so many times, and I've been critiqued in club atmospheres and like public play atmospheres before, where it's like, yeah, you should give it to them, or like go harder.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, that's not what I negotiated with this person.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what this person asked for.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know they don't like pain.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna do that.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but so many people who are newer to like kink in the lifestyle think, oh, well, this is part of what it means to submit to someone.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so therefore I have to endure it.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: But no one should ever have to like endure anything in order to be a part of a dynamic or like play or have a good time or whatever.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like kink is meant to be an exploration of self, not an exploration of someone else's fantasies.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, exactly.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: Been there before where people critique from outside the scene, is like, you are not part of this, get out of here.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: I want to start shooing people away.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: Which is uh one thing I learned recently, being able to edit things in real life like that.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like, hold on a second, you need to get out of here because you're not part of this scene.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like, when I first came in, even like for almost a decade, I didn't realize having that power was a thing in my life in general.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: So being able to learn that lesson from outside kink and then bring it into kink is a great thing.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like yeah, this whole entire thing is an a la carte menu, so we can do it how we want and then negotiate it.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it's it's rough when you see it and tell me if you've heard this or not, but especially being on like Reddit or something, where somebody goes in, is Am I allowed to say a safe word?
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like what Why are you asking on the internet of this question?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like to have this conversation with your partner about this.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: Are you allowed and they say that I can't say a safe word.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I guess you need to leave.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: Because uh you can 100% do that.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: What 100%, just like you said very much negotiable.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_03: Man, that was Yeah, because how do we get that across to people that you can do that?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's it's the the whole entire thing, and I know for me, it's like, am I allowed to do this?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, oh yes, I I can edit this how I want to and have this relationship, whatever it is, dynamic anything, um, and then I can negotiate for what I want.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, oh man.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just think most people don't know what they want, and they don't want to put in the work to figure it out, and so they walk into these spaces or they walk into a new relationship or a new dynamic, and they don't know how to communicate their needs, and so their needs aren't met.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I basically had the opposite happen where I walked into a relationship this year and said, This is who I am, and these are like my expectations around what my relationships look like.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I really struggled to maintain that boundary.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: I knew what I wanted, I knew like these are my values when it comes to what solo polyamory meant to me, what being child free by choice meant to me, what being kinky and a swinger and bisexual means to me.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know these things about myself, but putting it into practice is so difficult.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: But most people don't even want to do the first step of figuring it out.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when they get to the second step of trying to Like involve another person in it, it gets even more complicated and it gets even harder to maintain those boundaries and say I don't like pain.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like, well, you never really like thought about it beforehand when you were entering into this relationship, so you never negotiated that you didn't like pain.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah, 100%.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I've dated people that were into pain, but they didn't like bruises, and it was like, What?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, oh yeah, I like when you bite me, but I don't want to bruise.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, ha, I can't, what kind of did and then you bruise easily?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, what are we doing here?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: I don't uh but yeah, there's there's people that are into impact pit, but they don't want to be bound.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, a la carte menu.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_03: And uh for you, how did you like navigate the quote unquote mistakes?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: And then now afterwards, do you take more like um metrics as far as your boundaries now?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: Because you said you're child free by choice.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: Do you still date or open to dating people with children?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, interesting.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, all those boundaries and all those things.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, all the all the different things.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm going through that myself now because I'm child free by choice.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like I'm cool with dating people with children, but it's like I'm not trying to be a parent, so I'll be like a ghost role model, that type of thing.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but I've had parents that I've dated, and then they'll kind of like make me the disciplinarian, even though I didn't agree to that.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like they'll use me as a threat, and then it's like I didn't agree to that.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I had to shore that up a little bit.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I have no desire to meet the kids.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I try to let people know that ahead of time.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: And most people are aren't looking for like a quote unquote father figure for their kids.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: So it's I'm I'm wondering how that that line changes for me, like every few weeks.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I'd like to know what your opinion about that is.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, like I want to be an adult figure that children can trust if I'm in their lives.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be um a wine aunt to my friend's kids or if my brother chooses to have children.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that sounds fucking fantastic.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: But like you said, I don't want to be a parent.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be a disciplinarian.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be the one organizing calendars for a household.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do the meal planning.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to organize vacations.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like the the list of responsibilities that come with having children don't interest me.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I think that I am open to right now, I am open to dating people who have children that are older, specifically because they have a lot of those things figured out.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: And quite frankly, older kids have different demands than younger kids do.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's a different amount of labor and a different type of labor that's put on parents.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I've found that the people that I've dated in the past who have older children have a firmer boundary in place when it comes to those kids.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's the thing is like I'm open to dating people with children, but that parent has to have a very firm boundary around what they will and will not allow with their kids when it comes to me.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And they have to have a very firm understanding of what my boundaries are when it comes to children and how I will or will not interact with them.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I need to be better about saying no to things and like really holding firm to those boundaries.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's one thing to like say no.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um like I'm open to meeting kids.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um if it's been like a negotiated thing that like we've talked about for a while, kind of things, I don't want to rush into anything when it comes to kids.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do understand that for a lot of parents, like children are a very large part of their lives.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so like I'm not gonna shut down that part of them.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna say, don't talk about them, don't show me photos, don't tell me about them.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: But meeting them is the bigger step for me now.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um the second that like I get squirrely now is when people start like asking for favors regarding children, where it's like, hey, like, would you mind picking them up?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or like I had some bizarre asks in my pri like in my relationship that I had this year.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um so like that's the thing is like I had to learn that by kind of going through those experiences to know, like, oh, that's not something I'm comfortable with.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a level of involvement that I want.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you learn from your mistakes.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: You learn and I didn't hear your mistakes.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, the theme here at Around the Kinky Campfire.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for summing that up for Shannon.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: Because yes, we have to take our experiences, try uh try them out, whether voluntarily or involuntarily, and uh go ahead and uh learn from that.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: One last question for you before we go, because we're almost out of time, is do you write down your boundaries now?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: Or you just kind of have like a floating list?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't, but I should.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm wondering if I should put that on all the different profiles.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: There's always nuances.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I used to put don't want kids, and then people with kids is like, oh, I guess we can't date because you don't want kids.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, no, you can have kids.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want kids.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: So like people that don't put that together.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, okay, but everybody has their own experiences, and it's like, hold on, we need to ask these questions.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: But I feel like if you put a finite thing like that on a profile, people won't ask the question.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm always wondering how speaking of presentation, how to present that, yes, if your kids are above the age of 18, I don't really care and I'm not picking them up from school.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, how do you put all of that without putting all of that like and then it's gonna be like a TLDR and then ten paragraphs later, people are just not gonna read all that.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I wonder how that goes.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, um, metrics.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: But for me, I don't really write it down because neurospicy, hate writing stuff down.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then also it's I'll lose it.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and then like every week is gonna change, so maybe I should just get used to making a Google Glock that gets edited on a regular basis.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, if anybody does online dating, they say you should update it at least once a month, so add new pictures, change up the about me section.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Once a month?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: We can talk about online dating.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: I have I have coaching for that that I'm going to start making a class for, because that's a big old thing.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: Those are those are one of the coaching things that I'm gonna do is online dating profiles.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you there's certain ways you have to have your picture, and um the whole thing of uh be yourself is bullshit.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but we can go into more depth about that as well.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: Next time on Around the Kinky Campfire.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Shannon, for just going over everything that we talk about here on Kingy uh Around the Kinky Campfire on a regular basis.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh capacity for change, boundaries, red flags, having negotiations, and you should negotiate everything, campsters.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: Everything is up for negotiations, just like Shannon said, You can be a part of the kids' lives and sometimes meet them.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not a meter of kids usually, but you know, you can have those conversations.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: You are allowed to have those conversations.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen it online where people ask, Am I allowed to ask?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like Yeah.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: Talk to your partner about this.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you can do this yourself.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't want to do it, don't do it.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: And tell them about it.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean this is why we get online to talk about these things, because it's getting tired of yelling at your phone or your computer.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's like I have answers to these questions, and it's crazy that people go out and just don't talk to anybody they know, don't talk about friends and family.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: They just put the question out on the internet, and it's like, okay.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_03: Let's just have a place where you have all those questions answered, and then also we can do workshops at conventions like Sput Lovers and uh have all these questions answered.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: So that's it for now.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for joining us at around a kinky campfire.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Shannon, for coming again, making your yearly uh pilgrimage to the uh campfire um the uh chairs, logs.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a log sitter around a campfire.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about you, but I'm a ground person.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love a good picnic blanket.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: I thought you meant the bare ground.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, ew.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: But picnic blanket.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Picnic blanket.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: If we're gonna do a campfire, it's gonna be a picnic blanket.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: The look on your face.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: There are people that sit on the bare ground, and those people are weird.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh harsh judgment from me.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: Agreed.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh anything you want to say?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna try to put your the socials in there if it's changed from last year, and then you can send it to me.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um anything.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you said you had a new book.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: Is there you wanna is that gonna be in the thing as well?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: You wanna Yeah, um, I had a book come out in September, and it's actually um about it's called Cherished by Shannon Elliott.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it is about an engaged couple navigating some changes in their relationships.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: So one of them is diagnosed with um diabetes, and it's how they figure out their new relationship dynamics and how they negotiate things.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I don't know, I loved writing it, it was great.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um but you're welcome to go read.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh, sounds good.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: Talking about that diabetes, the meme thing that's on there.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's all for now.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: New episodes, usually me by myself, or if I randomly get a guest and I catch them and wrangle them and force them onto this thing.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, every Thursday around noon Eastern time on all the popular platforms.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: You'll hear it in the intro and the outro of how to contact us.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_03: Let us know what you think on the Instagram or send me an email in the Yahoos of what you think about boundaries and other questions you can ask.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: And if you have stuff you'd want to learn in a class, let me know that as well.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'll put that in the class notes.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: But for now, this is HH Julius or Enail the Great, or something I said at the beginning, something like that.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: Shannon here with me.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: Around the Kinky Campfire.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: Hello.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's a wrap for this episode of the Around the Kinky Campfire Podcast.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: We love having you by the fire, and we'd love to hear from you.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: Got a kinky question, a steamy story, or a topic you want us to cover?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: Slide into our DMs and send us a message at Around the Kinky Campfire, Campfire with a K at yahoo.com.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review wherever you're listening.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: Your support helps keep the flames burning and the conversations flowing.
• 44:11
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• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: To stay in the loop, join the community and keep the kick alive between episodes on Thursdays.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: Until next time, stay safe, stay sexy, and keep that fire burning.