Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / From Facebook Ads to AI: A Modern Marketing Masterclass

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From Facebook Ads to AI: A Modern Marketing Masterclass · Mortgage Marketing Radio

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Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Mortgage Marketing
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Radio podcast. Hope you are doing fantastic. Your 2024 is off to a great start in your
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building, momentum into the new year with your initiatives, your activities, your priorities,
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mindset, your identity, all of that, all up into one serious committed, unstoppable mortgage
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professional. That's what I hope you get out of listening to these episodes and tuning in
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every single week. Thank you for doing so. Before we get into this week's episode, of course,
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I'm bringing to you another success story from one of our brand new members in my agent classes.
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Hey, you didn't know what we do at my agent classes is help originators move up the pyramid from
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the bottom of the pyramid as a solicitor and a vendor to a partner and appear. We help you get
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more agent engagement in conversation without chasing but attracting agents to want to do business
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with you and increasing your referrals almost, I dare say, on demand. We do that by leading with
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education, content and classes in our local market in person or resume over social media and we
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help you build your personal brand that attracts high quality agents that you choose who you want to
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work with versus having to chase and put up with annoying little we need head agents. You're in
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control of your business, you get what to tolerate. Let me tell you about a recent success story.
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I just this morning we did our Friday mastermind call where every Friday we get together with
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originators from around the country and we do best practices, right? We share about what's working.
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We have an agenda for accountability for activities and you will come to these calls. Should you be
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decided to become a member and you will get inspired, informed, educated and you will become a
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better mortgage professional across the board in all categories. How do I know? Well, because today
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one of our brand new members taught his very first class to real estate agents. Spencer, what's up?
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If you're out there shout out to you Spencer Spencer turns very first class and I think I might
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have been with us for about five weeks now if I remember, but anyway bottom line is this is
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it's very first class he gets two referrals and not just crappy garbage referrals actually high
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quality up to grooved ready to go by and shop referrals. Why? Because he showed up and changed the
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narrative. He changed the positioning and the perception that most agents have when it comes to
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their their opinion perception of right the loan officer population at large. Now look at on this
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morning's mastermind call with our members, we talked about real estate agents. We talked about
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the necessary evil that some originators feel about real estate agents. We talked about hey, you
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know what? You probably don't like agents and I get it. Then Travis on our call said, you know what?
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I don't like agents either and actually he refrains. He said, you know what? Actually, that's not true.
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In his 23 years of business, he's worked with a lot of agents. He didn't like what he did. He made
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the shift a couple of years ago to start to change the game and only work with the agents that he
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had a connection and a synergy with and that were quality agents who worked on his terms and believed
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in his value proposition. That's when your business becomes fun, enjoyable and you actually look
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forward to taking those calls. You look forward to those meetings and you are actually
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motivated to go out there and just crush it. So Spencer, right, literally a month or so in steps
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steps out. Does his first class gets I forget how many agents 10, 12, 20 agents in the room, whatever
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what the number doesn't matter. But he got two referrals instantly after the class. No ads
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been, no costs, no chasing. Everybody came to him. He simply learned a proven process and repeated it.
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Does this sound like something you'd be interested in learning more about? Here's how you can take
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action now and book a call with me. Go to mortgagemarketing.pro. Schedule the time on my calendar.
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We'll have a chat. We'll see if we are right for each other. No harm, no vow. We are not right for
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everybody. Maybe we're right for you. If you're coachable, if you're open minded, if you're willing
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to work and follow up plan, go to mortgagemarketing.pro book a call. All right, especially guys,
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this week bringing back a friend of mine for a number of years now who was originally on episode
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number 84 with me. And now I'm on episode, what is this three 15 or something like that? So it's
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been a minute. But today I'm having an amazing conversation with Travis Tom. Who is Travis Tom?
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You ask, well, first of all, he's just a great guy. But secondly, Travis is among the best,
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most knowledgeable, most experienced and well informed and successful ad experts when it comes to
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running paid ads, generating quality leads and building out a process that helps some of the
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largest brokerages teams and agents in the country successfully run paid ads on meta, meta,
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of course, being Facebook and Instagram. And with the evolution of AI, now being incorporated
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into ads and strategies and automation, Travis is, of course, showing up now with some amazing
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knowledge and expertise on the current state of that and different ways in which you can use
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AI to integrate zero overall advertising strategy and also what's coming. Now what's great about
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this conversation is, hey, if you've ever been curious about what really works with running ads,
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paid traffic right on Facebook, Instagram, etc. This is a conversation for you to listen to because
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I'm looking down at my page here of show notes. And I've got an entire page where we talk about
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dynamic ad creative. We're talking about the top ads to run, a list of homes to ads to run,
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seller guide ads, the Facebook lead ad forms versus directing people to landing pages. We definitely
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have a pretty deep chat about AI and the impact to AI and the overall kind of personal brand
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strategy. We talk about Facebook's dynamic ad creative and just really a wonderful,
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right crash course in everything about running ads on meta and some best practices for you to make
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sure you get in line and start implementing if you're ever going to consider running ads or if
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you're already are doing them, these will be some great take a home lessons for you to apply in
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your business. And there's going to be links in the show notes to everything we talk about,
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particularly Travis's new educational platform called elevated REM training.com.
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Link it up in the show notes elevated REM training.com. And that's where Travis is building this
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community where he's going to continue his knowledge and education to help people master,
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right, Facebook marketing and learn how to leverage AI to win more clients and close more homes.
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I suggest you check it out. I'm going to be in there as well. So without further ado, let's get
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into this week's show. Travis, welcome back to the show. Jeff, hey, thanks so much for having me excited
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to be here. Hey, man, it's been a minute, right? I was doing some research leading up to this
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session. And you are on episode number 84. And now do a quick look here just to I'm on episode 312.
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So it's been a minute. That is congrats. There's a lot that's a lot more episodes. Yeah. So you
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before we get into the content, why don't you explain for the listeners who are you and what do you
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do? Absolutely. I'm Travis Tom. I'm a Facebook marketing strategist and AI marketing strategist as well.
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I run ad campaigns all over the world for a lot of the top teams, some of the the national
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franchises all across North America for some of the bigger teams and work directly with Facebook.
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I have advised Facebook on their Facebook advisory board, but you can sultan to them,
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manage millions of dollars and different types of ad campaigns across Facebook and Instagram
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underneath the the meta ecosystem and then build a software that does some powerful stuff as well
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and enjoy coaching and training agents on really how to best leverage different types of marketing
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tools to the biggest bang for their buck. Yeah, awesome. And I've been in your world
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for as you know, since since you know, we talked about that podcast for a number of years.
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And when it comes to and you know, you know, me, this is no smoke. There's no sponsorship
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sponsorship here, but I have to say, especially when I was really double clicking on my Facebook ad
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knowledge, like you're on that short list specifically because, you know, you're obviously
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well immersed in real estate having been in real estate brokerage and sales, right? Or years ago.
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So you you you intimately understand the frame of real estate when it comes to Facebook ads.
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And I think that's why so many that like top users, top brokers and stuff call on you. So
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if that's okay, I will give you that accolade. Absolutely. I appreciate you know, I grew up
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in real estate as you mentioned. And so for me, it was, you know, you typically work with those
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that have been in that position before where they've had that best experience ups and downs and
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you know, the failures and wins. And for me, it was this understanding of how to actually apply
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Facebook advertising and AI marketing to real estate because I really would have loved to have
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someone like me as a mentor or someone just watched from afar to be able to tap into and say,
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all right, you know, I'm having issues with my current real estate brokerage, my team, whatever it
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is and marketing and how do I what tools do I use for the best kind of regeneration and what should
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I do for for this to save money and costs. And so I I'd like to come across as the future version
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of myself mentoring myself version of yourself. Yeah, I'll go back in time and get myself a
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little way up if I can. Yeah, all right. That's that's good. Let's let's pick up where, you know,
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the conversation you and I kind of message each other a week ago or whatever that was.
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There's a lot of changes. Let's let's start there. Since you were last on the show, right?
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That's a couple hundredish episodes ago. That's at least three maybe four years ago. What do you
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see as the big headlines? That's changed when it comes to advertising on Facebook and Instagram,
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for example. There's a few things. You know, the past few years, there's been some sweeping
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changes inside of of meta where they have really changed the algorithm to focus on ad creative
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and specifically in terms of targeting where they have machine learning and artificial intelligence
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they've been developing for years and years and years before open AI and chat GPT came out.
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Facebook, you know, has had a swath of AI engineers really focused on
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we've got a massive amount of data. How do we leverage it? And with the post iOS 14 of,
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you know, removing certain types of access to data that they can they can get access to,
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they really have to work with the data that they currently have and with that, they've been able to
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say, hey, targeting, we're going to remove targeting interests and change the, well, now remove all
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of it, remove it, you know, they've removed almost 10,000 different targeting interests over the past
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that say six years where to the point where it's ineffective to actually use targeting interest
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to some extent as just one method in a campaign, right? So for example, if you're going to kind of
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campaign, you don't have one image, right? In one photo with one piece of ad creative and then one
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targeting ad set where you say I'm going to target people that are interested in zillover.com
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and on the mortgage calculators and then just better run. That is set up for disaster. So Facebook
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has really deployed different tools like dynamic creative, which is allowing you to be able to have
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a campaign that has 10 different images or 10 different video is getting different pieces of ad
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in your campaign and then five different pieces of ad copy, five different headlines,
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five different call actions. And that optimizes where it can just basically have a mashup
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of these different pieces of ad creative and ad copy that optimizes itself to say which one of
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these is getting the most engagement in the most clicks and most leads for this, this audience.
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And then that's allowing you to be able to have a targeting setup where you might have broad
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target or open target where there may not be any actual interest to what we call microtarying
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typed in there. It's just geolocation, 15 mile radius as the default, right? Especially at
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housing category and letting it run and you then create maybe another secondary ad set where you
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have maybe a sprinkle of micro interests to be able to then let the algorithm and Facebook's
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machine learning say hey we're going to make decisions for you. We're going to shift the budget
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around for you to the different placements based on where we see the most amount of people are
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on the platform and placements. And then using all of these images, the more data we have, the better
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decisions we can make on who to serve the ad to. So that's one of the biggest changes is that
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it's really people get caught up in what's the best targeting things like that. Well your ad
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created is creating the actual targeting that's really leading it. So the things that people really
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need to focus and be concerned about is strategy and ad creative. All right, so I'm glad we're
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breaking this up because I wanted to go deeper on ad creative. But before we do, let's take the first
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step, which is strategy. You've worked with a lot of real estate agents, mortgage professionals,
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right? What would be your quickia course correction? I was going to ask you what do you see that they
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do wrong? But perhaps it's better to see what are the best practices when it comes to strategy?
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Best practices is really understanding what is the absolute goal in mind for your perspective
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buyer, seller, or client, whatever it is. What is the highest intent that they want? The closest
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step that they need to be able to get in. And so the regional intent of thought, right?
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We're just promoting. This is interesting. You didn't say what's most important for the person
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running the ad for the actual person. That sounds completely the opposite of the most of the people
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I talk to about running ads, right? Their intention is they want to get a lead, they want to make a
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sale, right? So we need to change that mindset. We need to change the mindset because if we look at
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it through that lens, then it's definitely one sided where we're creating campaigns that we believe
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are just, well, it's, you mean another thing that just one sided, but slightly delusional to where
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if we're creating something, we think is going to work just because we're designing it for,
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what we believe is truly going to serve us in our best interests. When if we think about who's
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a consumer and what are their needs and what do they want and how are we solving that,
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right? How are we filling up that opportunity, whatever questions they have? That is going to create
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the win for us. So most people, right? The key things from a psychological level,
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in a very property-centric type of campaign where they want to see the properties. They want to see
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photos, right? First, and then pricing and details, kind of the hierarchy of information that
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they want to digest. So a lot of people, I think, get too wrapped up and, well, they've got a very
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strategic, big, funnel campaign that's multiple steps. And I used to build those really large
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campaigns back in the day, and those used to work. But now it's really being able to, how do we
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just shorten the opportunity to give them something? So, for instance, a list of homes, right?
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That's probably one of the easiest campaigns to get the deal works. And it still works. And what
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the reason why it works really well is people, the CNAD that says, you know, see all the homes price
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for sale under $800,000 and the North Valley, right? Click here to see all the photos and details
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today. And it's a list of beautiful homes in that specific area that they probably want to take a
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look and click on it, fill that form, give them information, if they end up on a property search
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IDX and they start to kind of go through. It's an instant gratification, it's an instant win,
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where you get the leads information. And that person is now then on your website and you
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delivered what you promised, right? There's no games, there's no waiting, it's that dopamine level
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hit and they're looking at everything and they're, you know, checking out properties. I don't think
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that kind of ad campaign will really ever go away because there's always a roller coaster ups and
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downs of inventory, right? And so if you give people the opportunity to look at some properties
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that they may not have seen before, you know, in a lot of people, I've talked to people that say,
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well, you know, if they want to know and see properties of going on sale or whatever they call,
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not everyone is taking that initiative and step unless you align them of the opportunity.
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So giving them something that they want, that's the first thing. That's kind of like a no games,
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you know, type of, we're not building any type of high things that get to jump through.
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That's right. A lot of leads that come through there. Second from that,
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there's a lot of confusion market currently for sellers, right? I buy our programs, you know,
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interest rates, bridge loans, different, you know, what's going on with today's market.
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What can I do? What can I get? It's not as black and white as it used to be several years ago. So
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offering a seller guide that is really talking to the mind-set psychology of most sellers,
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which is they're a little overwhelmed with with with everything they've heard in the news
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and they're overwhelmed with, you know, what do they need to do and how do I get the best price
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and where am I going to find a home? So writing ad copy that focuses on, are you overwhelmed,
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but I thought of selling your home and giving them a guide that really breaks down, you know,
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one of the key things they need to do. So that right there, seller guides are working really well
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for subtle beat generation, right? And bringing those folks in the...
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Let me interrupt for a second if you don't mind. A couple of questions in here,
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because as you're talking, I'm pulling up some Facebook ads and I'm thinking about questions.
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Okay, so the seller guides. Interestingly enough, that's also one of those old
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these book goodies has been around a long, long time, right? I'm curious. Maybe this is just my
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cynicism as a consumer having been burnt many times with opting into leads, lead ads.
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Apparently, there's still people that are willing to opt in, but with a seller guide,
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because it isn't part of the narrative that the people that are what, you know,
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clicking on that ad or whatever are saying them to themselves, I know this is going to go into
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a funnel, like, you know, I'm going to get a bunch of, right? I mean, how do you deal with that?
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Less than you think, so it used to be where, you know, home value ads, which you're back
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on the day, almost 10 years ago, I had a full home valuation landing page company where we,
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you know, we built thousands, thousands of those. And I was part of the guilty party that would
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saturate the market and basically destroyed the values of home value ads. Because there was too
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many, right? And the consumer caught on real quick and then they started to really kind of fail
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because people would click on a home valuation ad, go to the landing page. They go,
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I don't want to fill that out. And then they leave. I'll just go to Zillow to look at the value
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anyways. Right. Just go to Zillow. I'll go somewhere else. I don't want to go to these
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steps. And that information became widely available through different various sources and really
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only solved kind of one itch, one curiosity. Fear in pain is a whole different perspective,
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right? Fear in pain and one of the biggest drivers of creating engagement and
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getting people to take action. And so without being manipulative, but still being able to leverage
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that as a resource, you need to be able to tap into people's fear in pain, which is where
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their pain points currently. And then identifying that. And so for sellers, it can be done in multiple
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different ways. You know, those other guides and there's multiple different types of
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selling guides you can create. But for a lot of them that are opting in for that,
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you really want to give them enough valuable information to where you are the educational resource.
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It's not salesy. And it's something that gives them peace of mind and trust. And the ones that
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are opting in are typically much higher intent because they know that they're opting into something.
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Yeah, they're willing to do it anyways.
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And they're willing to do it, they're willing to do it anyways. And I feel like there's been
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a lot of misinformation and just a lot of bad information where you also have 73% of homeowners
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said that they would list their home with an agent that uses video. But you have only 15% of
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real estate agents in the United States actually doing and creating videos. You've got 85% of those
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that are not creating video that are still doing transactions. And they got 15% that are,
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you know, this 15% how many of them are actually talking directly to the consumer and not creating videos
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on look what I just sold. If you're going to let's take that example of seller guides, you know,
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for example, that putting a video with that ad would help.
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Putting a video with that ad and then talking about what that does is that one
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instantly lets them know, hey, I am a real estate agent. I'm in this business, right?
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Or I'm alone in office or whatever it is. You're identifying yourself and you're already
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disqualifying that prospect before they can qualify you because you're basically putting
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you out there right in front, right? No big switch type of, of, you know, kind of campaign. You're
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showing, you know, in this guy that I wrote, you're going to learn these top five things, right?
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So there's I think being more front and center and letting people know who's behind those ads
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is definitely going to be a big. So what you're saying is like what I envision I've seen in the
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past is you've got these unbranded seller guides, right? With a logo, but there's no agent.
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It's like a generic name or whatever. And there's no association to a real human.
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Right. Right. Okay. In what we're seeing, you know, there's a lot of a lot of faceless brands
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out there. Right. And one of my big predictions for 2024 and moving forward is really
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the, you know, defining personal brands where you have, if you look at the tick tock vacation
24:04
of the world, you mean, tick tock definitely brought this home where, you know, on Instagram,
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you have, you had influencers, like people that had, you know, 50,000, 100,000 50 people, you know,
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followers. And that really is kind of eroded and is going away very, very quickly.
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And then while I'm tick tock, you saw the rise of content creators and content creators being
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someone that doesn't maybe have, maybe they have got, you know, 27 people that follow them,
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right? Or maybe only, you know, 200 people that follow them. And then they're really concerned
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about followers. They're focused on, hey, I create content and I create up my phone and I'm
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really good at editing and I'm authentic and I know how to start with a good hook and I can pull
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people in and I create content for other companies, right? Not an influencer, but a content creator
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that can actually create content for the companies and those companies that use that content
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that video content as advertising. And so we're going to see more of that's more acceptable. And a
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lot of people are, you know, basically that has a higher level of trust association with it versus
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an influencer. So if you look at what's going to start to happen with a lot of these different
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companies, not just real estate, but all over is they're training some of their employees and staff
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on how to get on camera and how to be a content creator, the create content for the company,
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not necessarily being the voice in brand or one voice in brand as leadership, but having it be
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multiple different voices that are actually kind of creators. So in the real estate world,
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that is helping to create opportunities where these faceless teams or companies,
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those companies that I've, you know, that clients and companies auctioned in my local market area,
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I have no idea who the team leader is, who the main agent is, I just see their signs and it's,
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you know, I've seen the name again and again, but I never see them on social, right? I never
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see them. So it's a little bit of a faceless brand, but the ones that I do recognize that I
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connect with and engage with are on social media creating content and then I see their signs
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and I refer people to them and it's a, it's much more impactful. We have doing business and it
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really amplifies their presence and omnipresence. So short form video content creation,
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four brands, right, four teams and it could be the agent, the team leader, it could be
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so when they hire out, there's actively creating content for that brand. Ideally, it's going to be
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the specific person, right? It's getting the camera and being like, that's the question.
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That's the question I wanted to get to was how important is to have an actual face of a human being
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there, right? I, you know, with the, I mean, this is, this all kind of gets kind of blurry
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with the rise of artificial intelligence because you're going to have an enormous amount of
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content being pushed out, some of which is just kind of fluff and garbage from the text,
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generative, you know, blog and emails, it's kind of just, we already have enough of that
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in real estate, where it's just a lot of noise. Exactly, noise. And then those that actually show up
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on video and provide educational value and or thought leadership and demystifying everything,
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those are the ones that are going to rise at the top. But alongside that is AI video creation,
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where, you know, and I did this a couple of months back where I created an AI avatar myself,
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talking about Einstein's theory of relativity and which I know nothing about.
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They've even read it, but, you know, respect the guy. I don't have to.
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I don't have to. And it was just, it was this background, it was, it was just like me and,
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and I mean, it was me and people and I posted it, people could not tell.
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Yeah, it was me. What did you use to create that? Because some of the, some of them still look a
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little, you know? Yeah, it's right. It's called Hagen, H-E-Y-G-E-N, H-E-N.
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And H-E-N allows you to upload a two minute video of yourself. And it had, it takes all the
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inflections and the a's and a's and a's and hand movements, you know, like I do. And it learns
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very quickly from that. And with about five minutes, you can upload a script and then choose your
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avatar and it will then build out a video of you doing that. So there's, there's pros and cons
28:50
in this verse that gets blurry is that you can have content creation of you. And if you wanted to
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then say, you know, because we're all busy, you know, we're all of crazy lives. We want to be able
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to actually say, how can I get and maximize the most out of artificial intelligence without
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a large amount of energy output and having it being a time, you know, suck, right? And so you can
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create, you know, one video avatar, go in the chat GPT and say, you know, create 30 engaging
29:27
real estate topics for me to create videos about boom, create those videos. All right, now give me
29:31
a 60 second video script about each specific topic, drop those in, take those copy those, put
29:38
those into Hagen for your avatar, have a publish and now you have that, you know, turn into vertical
29:45
format and then use something like repurposed.io where it's connected to your TikTok or Instagram,
29:52
post it once and then it shows up on YouTube shorts and reels and everywhere else. And now you've
29:58
got this machine that is creating content where you created one video, but you're just creating
30:06
scripts and it's reading up for you. That's one opportunity and suggestion.
30:12
I do, I don't think that's a full replacement though. It's something that you also need to be
30:18
creating different real authentic videos where you show up on camera and actually, you know,
30:23
preserve yourself. Explain what you mean when you say you don't think it's a forward placement.
30:28
It's not something that I would suggest you fully just only do that.
30:38
I think what I understood you to say about that is like my first engagement with you hopefully
30:42
is something of actual real human, right, which is less produced. Maybe it's not the greatest
30:49
to the TikTok effect, right? And as a matter of fact, I don't know if you was it you who posted,
30:54
I can't remember somebody posted that stat about the most viewed short videos were the least
30:59
produced. It wasn't about the music background. It wasn't about the latest trending, right? It was
31:05
like the most authentic, really. Yes, yeah. And I think there's been there's been this,
31:11
the pinch on the swung greatly because you have Instagram where it was these, you know,
31:17
polished. Yes, super polished, you know, model on a beach and Tahiti, you're right, you're
31:22
talking about, you know, the top five things I love about traveling through Tahiti. And so they
31:27
like, you know, I'm never going to go to heat him too busy. You know, I've got two little girls.
31:33
Watching it because it looks amazing. Right. I've got a family we're doing their thing we're
31:37
traveling, but you know, I'm not going to do extreme showing me 30 hours of Tahiti. So that,
31:44
that is unrealistic and unattainable for, you know, the vast majority of people on there,
31:51
it might be some mind-floss, but that's not so many. Probably going to take advice from.
31:58
And I think we saw a lot of that sort of happened in real estate where there was like really
32:03
super polished and you got these, you know, high production value, yeah. High production value,
32:08
you know, and, you know, let's walk through this, you know, $14 million dollar, you know, home
32:13
in Malibu, where, you know, that's great. It is a talk to your everyday transaction.
32:19
Right. And that's, you know, it's some beautiful content, but is it really going to,
32:24
it maybe it might pull one, you know, $8 million or $4 million dollar buyer, you know, a couple of
32:29
months later. But the vast majority of it is it's really not authentic. And so if we look at where
32:36
then things have gone, which is, you know, low five video, which has a higher level of trust,
32:41
and there's been lots of research and documentation on that. So we'll find the vertical format.
32:48
And typically starting off with some sort of hook doesn't always have to be, but the first three
32:53
to five seconds are the most engaging, right. You really want to pull people in. So there's,
32:59
you know, there's a lot of video content that can be done where you can build a personal brand
33:07
just from a handful of videos that you would then take. And this is what I call the perfect funnel
33:14
type of situation, which is one of the brand awareness video that you're running to your local market
33:19
area. And you're racking up, you know, 30,000, 80,000 views right over a couple months. And then
33:27
you're going to retarget them with a series of other videos you have. Right. And really it's,
33:32
that's part of demand generation. Is that that top of funnel you consider?
33:37
I would consider that that top of funnel demand generation where demand generation is really
33:45
more of a you're building demand based on education value, right. And being omnipresent. And then
33:55
from there we targeting them with the sequence of more video where you continue to stay in front of
34:01
and now it's just your, you know, you are top of their mind. You're kind of ingrained and some
34:08
of the content. And then from there, running same kind of similar video content to your
34:14
spare influence and staying in front of them, which a lot of people, I think, really neglects
34:20
on social level. They may go heavy on print or Popeyes or some of those things.
34:26
So the biggest success as you can find is really just staying evergreen present in front of
34:32
your spare influence and database on social media. All right. Let me, let me break this down with
34:38
my layman's understanding comparatively to you in terms of what this might look like in Facebook.
34:44
So let's just call it top of funnel demand. And that's the branding videos, right, which is maybe
34:49
stories, success stories. Hey, here's why I love real estate. If I'm, if is that tracking correctly
34:53
so far, maybe some, you know, showcasing listings, is that all relevant?
34:58
Yes, yeah, yeah. It's a showcase in the middle. There's so many different topics I would dive
35:02
dive into, but you're demystifying, you know, like today's market challenge is, right?
35:07
Right. You that and, you know, all of the common, if you look at the common questions,
35:14
you like a Google search or go to SEM rush, like a research word, which is things like,
35:20
what, you know, what does X salary afford me for home? What can I, what can I afford or how much
35:30
damn people do I need? And so if you can have a, you know, your MLS, probably search as a green screen
35:40
in your background and those green screen tools and your phone, right? You know, like, you know,
35:44
hey, let's break down, you know, or here's what you can buy for $800,000 in,
35:50
no, right? So those videos work. You know, those, right? Or how much do you actually, you know,
35:54
for a loan officer, how much do you need to make to be able to, you know, afford a half-million-dollar
36:00
home? Let's break it down, you know, this, this, this, this, you know, so there's that type of
36:07
ungated, demystifying that kind of content versus where those could typically be a lead generation
36:14
app, right? What's, you know, you would, you would have as like a, you know, faceless brand and,
36:20
you know, type of ad, how much can I afford to get this? Which still can work, but you're building
36:26
a personal brand up front and then teaching and educating and, and building authority with
36:32
unneeded type of content where you're actually stating like this is how, this is what you need to
36:37
make to buy this, you know, this, this home, you know, doing all in like a one-minute, you know,
36:42
one-minute thirty-second kind of video, or here's all the homes you can buy for X amount of
36:46
X in X area, that's going definitely to attract and engage a lot more conversations and you can
36:52
still do both lead generation and that, but those positions you in a way where it really builds
36:58
a lot more brand authority and personal brand. So I want to take this through these steps and kind
37:04
of put a, put a bow on it for everybody listening who want to, you know, be completion oriented.
37:09
So we've gone, I think, for the first two stages, right? Was the branding video and then the more
37:13
video, multiple video steps or sequences. So I'm just, I'm visualizing this is happening in meta,
37:19
right? Facebook or Instagram, somewhere where these ads. And then you mentioned a sphere of
37:23
influence. Would sphere of influence in terms of those ads videos content be achieved through
37:30
like custom audiences, for example? Yes. Okay. So we take our past client database or whatever it is
37:36
and some, some people have some type of connection or awareness to us already, which is also people
37:40
have already watched our videos on Facebook retargeting them as well. All right. All right. So let me,
37:46
and I'm just like, it's impossible to pack everything into one session, but if you were to give
37:51
that as a blueprint to somebody and that's the sequencer series of videos without getting into
37:56
frequency or things like that. And then this might not be a fair question to you. What would you
38:01
say? Look, for you to really get an ROI on this or return on ads, Ben, what do you, what do you
38:08
typically see the monthly investment should be from an ad spend standpoint on that? Typically
38:13
around $500 a month, you know, with a brand awareness video campaigns, you don't really need to
38:22
spend a lot to get in front of a lot of people. I would say $7 to $10 a day baseline,
38:28
brand awareness objective, where it's focused on reach. It's not really going to get any clicks.
38:33
It's not going to get any comments, but it's going to just saturate that audience. It's going to
38:37
get in front of a ton of people and have a high frequency. You're just going to even show it the
38:41
video again and again to them. That's going to be more like $7 to $10 a day where within a
38:47
60 day time frame, you'll probably reach 70 to 80,000 people. Who knows? It varies, obviously,
38:56
based on it varies, but from from a, you know, historical data like on a national's, you know,
39:01
average, what if I'm in frigging Fargo, North Dakota? Am I going to reach us?
39:05
You know, you didn't need to increase the radius. You said you had to get in front of more
39:12
people, but on an average scale, you know, $7 to $10 a day brand awareness. We'll get through a lot
39:20
of people. Then from a retargeting sequence standpoint, you can still, you know, do I would say
39:26
minimum of around $5 to $1 a day, also using either engagement, subjective or brand awareness,
39:35
where you have videos that are getting it from a smart custom audience like your spirit of
39:39
influence and people have been engaged with your past videos and the past leagues.
39:45
What's the objective on retargeting? So you can use any of the objectives, but from a video
39:52
perspective, to use video as retargeting to show people the true people as a custom audience or
39:59
people that watched your previous videos, the biggest, you know, ones are going to be either
40:05
brand awareness, engagement, or traffic. Now, traffic is engineered to where it's going to
40:15
click on the ad and go to your website. It's going to get clicks, but with most video type of
40:23
campaigns, your sole objective really is your goals. You want people to see it, want them to see it
40:30
multiple times, and then you want them to actually watch it, not to see it, but watch it. So it's
40:36
going to be brand awareness engagement because those are more engineered and the algorithm and the
40:41
ad auction to define that role. So listeners, you just got a free clinic in how to run a Facebook ad
40:47
campaign strategy and budget ad spend and all that. So thank you. And if, by the way,
40:53
in a moment, well, actually right now, so before we run out of time, I want to make sure people
40:56
who want to connect with you more, you've got this pretty cool training platform education.
41:02
And if you've listened by now, you get a sense of Travis knows what he's talking about.
41:06
Go ahead and give us that URL again. So people are listening who want to follow you and check out
41:09
more. What is that again? Absolutely. It's elevated REM training.com. And so yeah, elevated
41:16
REM training.com. And that's a AI marketing coaching, Facebook, Instagram marketing
41:26
training. We got support and videos. And we, you know, show you how to manage this collaboration.
41:32
And as I tell people often, I'm not getting anything to think for this other than I bring people
41:36
to these calls that I think, you know, are doing quality work and have the right
41:40
heart, if you will, not to sound cheesy, but, you know, that are really in it for the right reasons.
41:46
So we'll put links in the show note to that elevated REM training.com. Before we run out of time,
41:51
I'm going to go a little bit rapid fire if that's okay. All right. So, and these are just some
41:55
notes I've written down since we were to start talking. I'm trying to think, how should I do this
41:59
moving forward? What is the thing Gary Vee does? Does he do underrated, overrated? Okay, so let's try
42:04
that. CMA ads underrated or overrated? I would say, I would say overrated. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
42:14
it's, I feel like they, you just, you get a lot of of clicks with very little conversion rate on
42:27
them. I feel like there's a different type of funnel strategy you can leverage. For instance,
42:31
the list of homes can kind of add campaign where, well, the CMA ones are also, I think that's
42:41
you're talking to people that are in the midst of trying to figure out a valuation right before
42:47
they list their house, but they probably have already talked to a rilter and met with people.
42:51
So there's a high level competition to deal with right then there. What does back to my funnel question
42:57
I can just go to Zellow, man. I don't need that up to be fun. Right. Well, I mean, then there's
43:02
there's opportunity cast doubt, right? So that might be a part of it. But if you fish upstream,
43:09
where you're running an ad for a list of homes, which is, which is thought of as primarily a
43:13
buyer regeneration type of ad, you have sellers that are homeowners, whether they're, they're
43:20
become sellers, that are homeowners first, sorry, they're homeowners that want to sell, but they're
43:25
buyers first seller seconds with that kind of kind of mindset, right? They want to pin down as a
43:31
homeowner, where am I going to move to? Is that the right school district? We're going to get
43:34
ready to sell our home in the next three months here. I want to identify price ranges who we
43:40
competing with. But oh, I saw a home list of homes on Facebook. I'm going to click on that and
43:45
look at the homes because we also were buyers first, and then we're going to sell our home second.
43:51
So when they go through that Facebook lead ad of a list of homes, one of the key questions I
43:56
always ask, which is, do you currently own a home yes or no? And about 35% of all the leads that
44:04
come through say yes, they want a home. And so if we didn't ask that question, we wouldn't be
44:08
able to identify that we have 35% of these leads are actually possible sellers, right? They're
44:14
looking to buy home and then sell. So I think that's a way to be able to have lower competition
44:19
fish upstream because as we know, statistically, around 80% of homeowners work with the first agent
44:26
they have a conversation with. So the further downstream you can get or further, sorry, upstream you
44:31
can get to where you can actually get in front of people earlier on. And then we target them with
44:37
content and building that level of authority in front of them increases the odds of having a
44:43
warmer conversation, being the first one out of the conversation, either intentionally,
44:48
right, directly or them just listening to you and then making the decision that they're going to
44:52
hire you based on the content you put out. Okay. These I'm discovering because this is completely
44:59
off the cuff. I'm taking okay, this isn't rapid fire at all because it requires a contextual
45:03
in-depth answer, which I'm going to ask this one as well. You've seen the scenario where
45:10
I'm an L.O. Now listeners, listen up. I'm an L.O. I'm going to run ads on behalf of or with
45:15
real estate agents. And when they opt in, they're going to come to me first and I'm going to pre-qual them.
45:21
Do you have any comments or opinions on that from the standpoint of the buyer's journey or the
45:28
opt in, you know, the prospects journey of like, is that a good user experience? Or do they just
45:33
want to get to the thing like without talking to the L.O.? Okay, back up a second. So the strategy is
45:39
that a lead comes in and it goes to you as the L.O. Let's say you're running any one of these ads,
45:44
like it's maybe a house ad or it could be a list of homes for sale. And the first step in the
45:49
journey, well, once they get the guy to whatever, but the loan officer is contacting before the agent.
45:55
I think that's it's the past two years that's become definitely a more leading strategy where
46:03
we've seen with all of our clients, which is that they want to own the conversation and have a
46:10
little bit more of a relationship with either the agent they're working with or just be able to
46:15
own the lead source and say, hey, this is the end. We're turning the funnel upside down.
46:21
That's acceptable. It's perfectly acceptable. I think it provides some comfort to the prospect as
46:29
well because you're providing them and saying, hey, my soul goal here is to really arm you with
46:34
the resources that you need in the qualified decisions as you move in the next phase of your real
46:40
statement. Yeah, so there's got to be a good handoff, a good script or framing. If the ad didn't
46:45
reference at all or the communication didn't reference, like you're going to be talking to. So
46:49
because you know how it is, people opt in and they're like, whoa, who the hell are you? Why am I
46:53
getting this? You got to structure that properly, right? You do. I mean, there's and there's no
46:58
absolute perfect method with it because you know, humans are just so radically different from
47:06
person to person. And so there's like a disqualification almost from if someone is really hard to
47:13
get through the system and they resist, resist, resist, is that really someone that you want to
47:18
spend your time working with to begin with. I mean, just we all recognize the red flags.
47:24
You be another, you know, another, another real quick and then I might have one more.
47:31
I know this is a hot debate. Facebook lead ad forms, right? If I'm saying that correctly,
47:36
or Instagram same thing versus driving people to a landing page. Yes,
47:41
is it situational or what do you say? This is this is where I see a big change.
47:48
One of my predictions for 2024, moving forward is landing pages will will start to take a back seat.
47:57
And there's a couple of reasons why. One,
48:02
landing pages, typically, so any time you're sitting trapped in a couple of Facebook and Instagram,
48:07
they look for a 2070 unique key if I identify items on that website or landing page to verify
48:13
is this something that meets every all of our standards of good user experience for users
48:20
in on meta. Is it fast loading? Is it multi optimized? Does it have relevant images? And there's
48:29
a continuity there from the ad copy translating over to what they're promising. Is there a pop-up
48:35
video? So it looks for all those different things and it will actually go into the
48:40
quality control of the ad manager and say, hey, let the ad auction know that this is not a good user
48:47
experience because it doesn't have so many these things. So then it punishes you in the ad auction,
48:54
the ad is run as well and it gets kind of sluggish and basically falls short of your goal. But
49:03
the lead ad forms are fast, quick, instantaneous and they're basically really simplified small
49:10
landing pages optimized for, you know, high conversion to get people in and going through.
49:18
I don't think that we're going to see a complete dismantling of landing pages. I think what we're
49:27
going to see is we're going to see more short form, mobile landing pages that are concise
49:35
and clean and straight to the point with more conversational kind of language that is providing
49:44
resources really quickly. Now, landing pages like sales pages, I think those still really exist.
49:53
Websites are going to need to exist because you're going to need to have something that
49:58
provides a lot more information. So for instance, if there's someone needs to know about
50:04
a specific loan program, you really got to spell it out and break it down and educate them
50:09
on what it is. I mean, those are going to need to exist. But the initial opt-in to get information
50:16
for something, those the days of like scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, you know, through that,
50:23
people just don't have the time. The average person sees 5,000 out of the day on an offline
50:28
and, you know, there's, there's in scrolling rapidly, we're seeing more and more. So there's a lot of
50:37
sensory overload and task overload that we are on a daily basis where we really just want
50:45
access to what we're promising. Yeah, friction. Reducing the friction as much as possible.
50:54
So I noticed this was sort of, you know, my favorite marketers over the best of a years where
51:00
you would see these long, long, long, long landing pages that would scroll and scroll and,
51:04
you know, the scroll bar would get really short on the right-hand side and it would go on for long
51:08
copy forever. And now, they, you know, everyone's using, you know, landing pages that is basically just
51:15
a very short one-pager. It may not go, you know, below the fold. It's becoming much more clean and
51:22
efficient in the respecting people's time, which is a really critical thing. So you might see both,
51:29
but I see that links and bios becoming more of a landing page replacement where you have either
51:36
a link tree or a milkshake or any of them here. milkshake or a stand or some of those that basically,
51:44
you know, really going, okay, this is, you click this, here's the three things, you know,
51:48
three things that I offer that I do. You want this. When a book of call book clicks, it goes directly
51:52
to that. So they're really just bringing a lot of what is your intention directly to the surface
51:56
in making it more available with that having to jump through a lot of different complicated
52:01
hoops. And so I personally, I mean, lead at forums is my world, but I started off in
52:09
building landing pages. Right. Well, it's evolved, man. Yeah, things, things, things evolve. And
52:15
I think that, you know, always flip, but I'm going to have to say links and bios are
52:20
facing landing pages. And then so are lead at forums. All right. Last one. And unfortunately,
52:27
um, this isn't necessarily an easy answer as well. So this means we need to potentially have
52:32
you back. But what about like with the whole consumer journey lead ad forum, let's say, and now,
52:37
you know, you're going to move people to like, you know, DMs, many chat, right, chat tools.
52:42
What's your quick take on using those as, you know, part of the journey?
52:48
Um, I think that we're going to see, uh, it's going to be really interesting, which is where you have
52:55
companies leaning into artificial intelligence to answer a lot of questions, you know, for consumers,
53:01
um, you know, doing really cool integrations with chat, GBT and, and Zapier to be able to do all
53:08
that. And I've, I've built some, um, I, I, and also now there's them, you know, this different
53:15
types of AI voice, where voice follow up and voice cells, right? Um, the, the, the public will,
53:24
and it's funny, I judge this bought by, um, my nine year old daughter, which is that I'm teaching
53:31
her AI prompt engineering and AI tools, and, and she, you know, she's, she's loving it and she's
53:39
having fun with it. And it's a nightly thing that we do is seeing a father and daughter to teach
53:42
her AI, but she also is, is very much just like, I, she's like, I really don't want AI as a part of
53:49
my future. I got to, I don't want a, you know, she, she, the more she comes, comes aware of it,
53:53
the more that she gets fun creating, the more that she is saying, I don't want things in my life,
54:00
um, as AI, because I want to be able to engage with things that are real and real matters more.
54:08
And when it comes into sales, I think we're going to see that, you know, AI bots and AI,
54:16
you know, voice phone calls and follow up are really more of just going back to like a,
54:22
the, the original phone trees where you would call them, it's like press nine for, you know,
54:27
to talk to someone so, right? I think it's almost going to move. It's, it's basically coming
54:33
a very fancy version of that where people are going to say, you know what, I really want to talk
54:38
to a real human and the pendulum is going to swing to where when it comes to some of those aspects,
54:44
you can get so far. Right now, I have a client that has had a text, AI follow up that has been
54:53
working for a year, but this, this is a client that has had this previously before they are working
55:00
with me and hasn't converted a single deal yet. It's killed deals for them. They're one that said,
55:05
hey, I'm sorry, I haven't gotten back to you. I was in the hospital and, but I'd still like to
55:10
look at homes, but I'm currently in the hospital and, you know, I don't know when I'm going to do
55:15
that, but I always still want to see homes. And, you know, the bot responded, great, you know,
55:19
you want to see some homes, you know, this weekend, right? So like instantly, like, you know,
55:23
no sentiment reading, right? Just going to kill the deal right then. They were just crushed by
55:29
that because it couldn't stop the bot faster than it did in business. Like, oh, my gosh, and so
55:33
sorry, that's awful. Yeah, like, you know, it's playing the future. So now, you know, they're saying,
55:39
we want a human to answer these phone calls. You want to inside sales agent to take some of
55:44
these calls and text. So I think there's a role where AI can play a benefit. I don't think it's
55:51
going to fully replace automating the first kind of initial long-term follow-up in touch points.
56:01
Yeah, I like how you described it as the phone tree thing, especially when you're dealing with
56:05
customer service or you just face it the offshore, right? Language barrier issues. That's going to
56:10
think I make that process more streamlined for sure. And, you know, you've heard, I'm sure many
56:14
of us have heard the Tesla AI voice recording. It was sounded like, you know, that one. And
56:22
my only assumption, though, is it's just at one point it will be almost indetectable
56:27
whether AI or human. Right. Yeah. So, yeah, I think most people, they're going to ask questions,
56:36
or are you a robot? Right. Right. And you'll have the option to get a human or not. And I heard
56:42
this guy say that in the customer service standpoint, that depending on the context, obviously,
56:47
you may want an AI instead of a human for customer support issues or service or just moving to the
56:53
right department or answer that question, how do I reboot my route? You know, whatever it is,
56:58
because sometimes the list of faces, the customer experience for humans, isn't that great? No,
57:03
it's not. It's not. So I think the dream is still out. We'll see. I think we'll get some historical
57:10
data built around it, you know, and we'll be testing some things that are self. You know,
57:15
there's a, you know, I may disagree with some of it, but doesn't mean that we, just because I
57:21
disagree with it, doesn't mean that we shouldn't, you know, I'm an AI marketer and there's some of
57:24
the things within AI. I just don't believe in because I feel like it's not going to work, but there's
57:29
a quote from my brother works at Amazon as one of the executives and he said that, you know,
57:38
Benzos has this, uh, demand and commitment, um, uh, kind of methodology, which is, uh,
57:46
sorry, disagree, disagree and commit, uh, methodology, where you may disagree with a certain
57:52
thing that someone has brought to you within the organization or a client or a customer, but there
57:55
are more boots on the ground, they're closer to the actual issue itself, and you may disagree
58:00
with it and, and think it's not going to work and they still validate, you know, or try to
58:05
validate that we believe it is going to work. So you can say, you know what, I disagree, but I'm
58:11
going to commit, I'm going to commit the resources, I'm going to commit, uh, time to it, I'm going
58:15
to make sure and push this forward just as I would have thought it was going to work and agreed
58:20
with it, uh, and if it goes right, it goes right, if it goes, it goes wrong, I'm not going to say
58:26
that I told you so it's, it's more of just the hey, we gave it our best and sometimes you can
58:32
disagree with it and it still works really well. So that's kind of the, the thought process I have
58:36
in a lot of AI, which is I can disagree with some of it, but I would disagree and commit and then
58:43
see what actually happens and I'll be pleasantly surprised and enjoy, um, and give it a seem
58:49
weird amount of resources. Hmm, very interesting. Well, man, this is an amazing conversation. I know
58:54
we could keep riffing, but unfortunately, um, we have reached the end of our time. So once again,
58:59
I want to give people the shout out to your website where they can go learn more about what you're
59:03
doing for AI and, and, and ads in a smart way. Once again, that is elevated. REM training.com,
59:09
go there, check it out. And of course, they can find you Travis Tom. We'll link that up,
59:13
Facebook, Instagram, all that jazz. So thanks once again, man, for a look at this. I started with
59:18
a blank page and now I have a full page of notes. Oh, nice. Man, you gotta, you gotta take a photo of
59:26
that upload a chat GPT and say, right, write this down as a summary note for me, right? There you go.
59:31
About, you know, that's the, that's what, and actually, I'm, I'm next level as I need to move to
59:35
a digital note taker, like a remarkable or something. Right. Yeah, doesn't, I'm, I am full
59:39
old school. Yeah. I know. I know. I know. I'm not picking off because it just saves you time. So
59:45
Travis, this always man really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you, Jeff. You too. Good to see you.
59:48
Listeners. Yep. You bet. You know what to do if you like this episode. Hey, leave us a review
59:52
forward this to somebody a real estate agent. This will help them add value, help you add value to
59:56
their business. So appreciate you tuning in. We'll see you on the next one. Bye for now. All right.
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