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Retail Media Roundtable - Agentic Commerce: Beyond the Hype and Into the Opportunity · IAB Europe podcasts

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Retail Media Roundtable, the podcast from IVA that dives into the dynamic world of retail and commerce media advertising.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: In this special edition, powered by our partners Miraclads, we're bringing you fresh insight straight from the heart of the action, recorded live at our Retail Media Impact Summit in Amsterdam.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: So whether you're seeking practical tips, strategic perspectives, or a deeper understanding of this fast-moving space, the Retail Media Roundtable is your go-to for timely and thought-provoking discussions.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: And in these exclusive live episodes, you'll hear directly from the experts and leaders influencing the future of retail and commerce media in Europe.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: So grab a seat at the table and let's dive in.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: Hey Paul, welcome to the Retail Media Roundtable.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Happy to have you in this podcast.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Great to see you again.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know you know me, but my name's Irina Schmitz.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the unit lead for commerce and retail at BVDW.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: But more importantly, who are you?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Paul, Paul Darhill.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Nice to meet you and good to see everyone.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, excited to be here today.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: I look after sales at Cody in the AMIA region.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been in retail media for like 15, 16 years.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: So excited to have a fun conversation today.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Me as well.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: So what have you enjoyed most about the Retail Media Impact Summit so far?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's still early when we're recording this, but so far I think there have been quite a high number of brands, advertisers on stage.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's always really important because it kind of starts with the consumer, then the advertisers and the retail media networks, etc.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think we've seen Unilever, Colgate, Henkel, um, and they've already been sharing their kind of priorities.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was really interesting, especially hearing about partnership and what their expectations are.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's been great so far.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: And any other particular sessions you're looking forward to besides yours?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, besides my own session, I think there's a, I mean, there's a uh we'll get on to agentic, um, I'm sure.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a number of sessions around that topic, and I'm I'm I'm excited to hear what the uh the group think about some of the uh some of that topic.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, great.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: You just said the word agentic commerce.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's been quite a hype.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um can you tell us more about what is it?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: What exactly do we need to know?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I think um when it comes to agentic commerce, really, this is the concept of having a tool that uh can either recommend or support um some kind of discovery process that you're going on, um, often around a kind of commercial element, right, with a purchase, and then maybe actually make the purchase as well.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's the area we're thinking about here.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, great.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, what are the like advantages or like opportunities that lie within it?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the significant.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you only have to think about yourself and how you're using AI tools in your day-to-day job, right?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so yeah, help me with my uh speech today, or does this make sense, etc.?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that the evolution into natural language is a huge part of it from one aspect.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then actually saying, would you, hey Paul, you've asked for a kind of update on your key accounts uh on Monday.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want me to repeat that process every Monday and bring that to you?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that whole process, I think we're all beginning to learn from that those suggestions of this can actually automate and work on your behalf, I think, uh are really exciting.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And seeing how that then translates into the uh commerce world, especially, is the bit we're interested in getting into today.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, great.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: You talked about great opportunities that lie there, but is there also some parts where you think that the expectations might not actually match the reality right now?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Is this like a hype thing?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I do think there's something there.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um Cody has put a piece of uh research into agentic commerce media, um, which I'd recommend taking a look at.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you go to our website, you can see it on on there.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that asks questions from people in Germany, in the UK, and in the US, people being advertisers, consumers, um, and also um commerce media networks.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And what comes out from that is that 8% of consumers are comfortable with an agentic tool making purchase kind of independently.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone else is much more comfortable with it operating as a more of a co-pilot rather than an autopilot.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the hype element here is there's a lot of obsession on that kind of 8%, and assuming that's what's going to be happening, I'm not sure that the data is showing that that's a reality yet.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: So looking at retailers and brands, um, two of the biggest groups that we have here, like most important groups that we have in retail media, given that one is giving the money and the other is giving well the retail aspect of the retail media.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, where do you see AI agents creating the most meaningful value is?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, uh there's a lot there.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think um, so again, some of the data has shown that from an advertiser perspective, they're looking for a gentic to help resolve some of the orchestration challenges that they have.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're looking for a gentic to perhaps resolve some of the elements around um uh like we we were talking earlier around uh at the event about how ROAS as a key metric is is becoming less and less important, and it's more like new to brand and incrementality, et cetera.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And some of those elements are quite challenging for retail media networks and for advertisers to access.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a question around whether agentic tooling can bring those things, you know, up to the fore in an easier way.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's that's part of it.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, does that answer your question?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think so, yeah.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: And now looking at another very important group in there, the consumer, do you think that the customer funnels is somehow changed or influenced by agentic commerce?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for sure, right?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, anyone that's working in in search at this point um is like absolutely obsessed with how consumer behavior is changing in terms of the usage of you know, Chat GPT and the various like open AI tools, et cetera, and shifting away from maybe some of the more traditional types of search.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh as a consumer, what we're seeing is a few, and also there's a question around, you know, what sort of stage of the funnel is that in?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the research that came out was there seems to be a sort of split around perception about are people using those tools for bottom of the funnel purchase, or are they actually using it more for kind of mid-funnel research?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's some questions around there and where the budget should come from.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I think as for myself as a consumer, it's probably mostly like the initial types of research that I'm I'm thinking about rather than the purchase.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'll usually switch into a retailer to actually complete that purchase and then maybe uh whittle down my uh my kind of consideration.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I think it's definitely changing in that way.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's also changes in terms of um how we search.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: So there's some research around uh the keywords, right?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Love or hate them, right?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Keywords have been around for a number of years, and it's because you put toaster into a search box on a on a retail site.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now, because of uh a Gentic and how we're using these tools, you're either typing in, hey, I'm looking for a toaster that's silver to fit with my kitchen.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to have two of those, um, you know, two, maybe four slots in it, etc.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this kind of thing.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Just does this make sense?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Or you don't even type and you just hold the phone, use Whisperflow, or you know, other tools are available, and then you know, just dictate in what you're looking for.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, how does that change things in the retail environment?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Are we going to start using those same kind of tools within the retailer to ask those sorts of questions?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I think lots of changes coming up.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: Going off script, if that's okay.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: So we've also done a lot of work uh regarding awareness in retail media, and that is a full funnel um placement as well, and full funnigns are possible.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we just talked about consideration and purchase.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see it somehow influencing the awareness stage as well?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Or how do you feel about that?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Hugely.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh I think within within ChatGPT, for sure.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think I mean it's quite telling, isn't it, that a lot of the um the initial ads that were in ChatGPT would display, was my understanding, right?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's moving on from that at that point.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: So already there was that realization that this I'm researching a trip to where are we in Amsterdam, right?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's something about hey, boat tours are available in uh, you know, in the in in Amsterdam.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think already there's that.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a lot of discussion around the uh through the funnel and the the compressing of the funnel, etc., which we don't need to get into today.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I think um, yeah, I I think it's definitely that the perception, certainly from the research, is the agentic tooling is being used a lot for that more upper funnel element.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: So perhaps it should be considered as part of upper funnel campaigns, maybe in commerce media networks, right?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, very interesting.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the like, let's say, plus side.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: So are there any big uh uh barriers or any challenges that we're facing that are kind of slowing the progress?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think um one of the uh one of the sort of challenges that is slowing things down a little bit and some of the concerns around this is around um are we set up from an infrastructure perspective for this new world where you have tools that are not human, that are locking very quickly to access up-to-date data that's organized in a way that it can quickly understand and then return the response to the consumer.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: You only have to look at the kind of back end of many retailers and commerce uh businesses.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And they're all still on that journey about improving the way that their infrastructure is set up to prepare themselves for that new world.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's sped up that part of this uh uh of this area, is that concentration less perhaps on front ends and now about what is going on from an infrastructure perspective to get us ready for this world?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: All right, great.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: So AI agents are approaching uh more and more and more involved in purchase decisions.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: There are probably some new questions that arise in terms of like advertisers and retailers.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: What are those questions?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: And do they differ or are they the same question concerning visibility or like the customer journey?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think okay.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's something around um there was a piece of research that Daniel uh canap, I'm pronouncing his surname correctly.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're discussing this earlier.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're discussing, he was talking about research around uh the number of sponsored products, as an example, or even organic uh products that are in a uh search result.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And within a chat window, it's likely going to look very, very different.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Your uh consideration set is going to be much smaller.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: You could be looking at at um, you know, only three options in front of you, um, and maybe one or two of those are paid, which is a whole other discussion about what is what does that look like.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: But even being in that consideration set is that's gonna be, I mean, shifting from a page of you know 60 results into there could only be three on there.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: What do I have to do as a brand to ensure that I'm within those those three?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm Proctor and Gamble, that would make sense, right?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: One of the biggest brands that's out there.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And yet some of the research is showing that consumers are uncomfortable if I'm only receiving big brands in my uh responses, right?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm asking a question and I just get the major brands out there, it doesn't feel like the tool's working appropriately.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that creates a challenge for some of those big brands that quite honestly probably do deserve to be in that set.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: But how do they, and I think they do recognize already we have to fight even harder to ensure we're we're part of that, that um so which also creates, you know, sorry, this is an interesting one for me.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is it's it's uh if we know that consumers want to see other types of brands in there, what opportunity does that uh represent for the long tail?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if I'm a commerce media network and I know that consumers want to make sure those smaller brands are appearing or ones they've not heard of, I need to make sure I'm engaging with that long tail to bring them into my uh kind of commerce, uh my agentic uh environment.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Do you also think uh think that is might be more important now or becoming more important to be a love brand or love retailer for that part?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: How do you mean?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like a brand that the consumer already has in mind when they want to purchase, like the top of notchy, I really want to have an Apple phone, iPhone.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, yeah yes.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think I yeah, I don't think brand is is going away.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: And uh this is an interesting one.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I think so.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was buying my friend a, I don't know why I'm bringing this up.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was buying my friend uh a birthday present.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: I hope he doesn't hear this because it's not his birthday yet, which was like a uh like a bag to put the uh the paddle racket in.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: I apologize.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: People that play paddle talk about paddle all the time.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't believe I'm doing it.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't heard you think about it yet.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, the point being is I went onto like uh you know a tour like ChatGPT to say, hey, you know, what do you recommend?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like an Adidas one or various things.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, well, where should I buy this from?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And quite honestly, it was loads of retailers I'd never heard of.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I, as a consumer, still had the same concern.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, the birthday's in this length of time.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is it going to arrive on time?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Am I gonna have to deal with some like fees of it coming in from a different country?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't think those things go away, I think is the point of that kind of ridiculous anecdote, is that is that ultimately um consumers still want the reassurance that a brand gives them.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Either the brand is in terms of the quality of the very liquid or washing detergent, or the reassurance that engaging with that retailer means I'm still still gonna get the service I expect and the uh paddle back arrives on time and in the right kind of condition.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to stop talking, but I think we have to kind of come to the end.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, what do you think should brands know?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: What is your recommendation?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: Where should they start?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: What should they should they be doing?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, I definitely think there's a question.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, no.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: The uh I think the the the short answer to that is that you should be acting right now because especially as on the on both sides, really, what we've seen in the research is that advertisers um have uh budget to learn about this space.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: There is being budget allocated at a kind of uh top level to say we need to understand as a business how agente works.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think retailers, the opportunity now is to say, how can you be part of that?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: How can your your environment be one of those that the advertiser wants to kind of learn from?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a lot of preparation that's going on now behind the scenes and getting um you know things out there.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: I saw um obviously we've seen ads within Rufus as an example, one form of agentic, um, and then Kroger in the US have also now have um ads within their sort of search the uh the chat listings.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: So there's areas like that that I think are kind of easy, low-hanging fruit to be to be engaging in this space uh straight away and obviously also seeing what's going on with OpenAI.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, now is the time, I think.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: If we're meeting here next year again, what will be what will have happened?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of predictions can you get or assumptions what's happening?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is I think that um there are that piece around infrastructure, I think that's going to be an interesting one.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there are tools available that can help with the situations that organizations are in in terms of silo data, data appearing in different types of formats.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: So uh agentic is moving very quickly in ways or AI to help resolve some of that, bring it together, make it more readable, make it more available at speed to the um to the agentic world.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think we're gonna see a lot of that, that people have actually moved quicker than perhaps they expect um for that AI readiness, I guess.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Very excited.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Exciting, excited, all of that.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, now to wrap it up, can you sum up the I thought that was the wrap-up.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: No, now to wrap up.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Can you sum up the uh wrap up the Retail Media Impact Summit in three words?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I would say it's uh insightful.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I would say it is uh open.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say that can I say challenging?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds negative though.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's an environment where we kind of challenge each other's ideas, is what I'm getting up on.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there we go.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hopefully that's positive.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Very much looking forward to our session later.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for talking to me.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Arena.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Good to see you.