Latest / Zero Friction / Medvance's Tad Hartlaub on MedTech Innovation & Startup Marketing || Zero Friction Podcast
Transcript
- Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Well, welcome folks to Zero Friction. This is Terry Kuchaluchis and I have a wonderful guest with me today, Tad Hartlab. He is the managing director and co-founder of MedVance Marketing and he brings a tremendous amount of experience to the table today. He promises to bring us great stories about startups and getting to market with their friction points. And so with that, Tad, I'm going to go ahead and hand it over to you so you can give us a little background on yourself as well as MedVance. Tad J Hartlaub: Sure, sure. Thank you, Terry. As mentioned, I've got a little over 20 years in medical device marketing and management, ⁓ focusing innovation and product launches primarily. I've worked at ⁓ Pfizer, McKesson, so some of the Fortune 500 companies in those roles. ⁓ And during time, I've launched about 30 different medical device products. and actually have seven medical device patents myself. And ⁓ I got into this was ⁓ two of my brothers are physicians and was initially in college in pre-med and my and I invented a flexible shave biopsy device, basically a flexible scalpel and licensed it WARF, which was a tech transfer, the University of Wisconsin, Madison, where was going to school. ⁓ And ⁓ the bit, decided I loved product management, developing products in the clinical space to go ahead and better treatment options for clinicians and better outcomes for patients. So switched my major, ⁓ a bachelor's degree in business administration and then the corporate path. Just recently, several years ago, with two people, MedVance Marketing ⁓ and have ⁓ strategic focus and connections in the industry. And then the other co-founders, Carissa Morin, is creative expert, ⁓ and then ⁓ Kauf, who digital marketing. And so the three of us work. ⁓ We have a few. part-time people and others that come in as needed for our clients to go ahead and help support our marketing efforts. what we do is we're really a full service concierge marketing service focusing on biotech and medtech. And we do is we ⁓ try bridge that gap between innovation and clinical acceptance, which is critical. And I'm sure aware of challenges and the friction points that can can come with that in marketing specifically with MedTech and Biotech also. So what we do is we help create compelling stories ⁓ and go ahead and convey the value proposition of those products from a clinical perspective for our clients. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: That's great, Tad. So you've got sort of like on your team, you've got different verticals of specialty that you can offer to your customers, which is great. What is your sort of your customer profile? So who is typically the companies that you work with today? Tad J Hartlaub: Sure, most of our clients are coming out of incubators, university incubators, private ⁓ companies, and then startups that just hear about us again through the, ⁓ the incubators. So we have ⁓ medical school here in the Chicago area that has ⁓ referred clients to And they're typically startups ⁓ or engineering. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Wow, okay. Tad J Hartlaub: team that has come up with a new innovation in the medtech or the biotech space and they're looking for somebody to be able to bring that marketing and acumen and really conveying. the value proposition again to the clinicians and being able to go ahead and position that to get traction both in the marketplace as well as as I'm sure everyone knows when you have a startup there can often be funding issues and so it's to be able to go ahead and also help them create the necessary information to be able to get investments to help their business establish and grow. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Yeah, I'm sure you find yourself threading the needle quite a bit in the startup environment in terms of funding and how much money you have to do X, Y and Z and all the unknown things that sort of fall from the sky as well, right? So, so tell me a little bit. So you go after these sort of these startup companies or these incubators. When do you typically get involved with their marketing process? So when do they, when do they typically raise their hand and say, Tad J Hartlaub: Yeah. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Okay, I'm far enough through my either my development process or my regulatory process that now I feel like I need to engage a marketing agency. Tad J Hartlaub: we like to start as early as possible. One of the key areas that is often missed is called the market fit analysis. So they're developing a new technology, a new device, and it's really understanding how that ties into the market need and ⁓ the ⁓ for clinicians that would use that product. And so what we do is we want to make sure that we understand that at a deeper level, help them understand that. So that as they're developing and doing the FDA required clinical testing or human factor testing, that they're building that testing around extrapolating that value and understanding that more. if they find out early that say as an example, in this industry there is more left-handed people right-handed clinicians, I'm just making something up here. And so as they move forward, they have to keep that in mind as they do the testing and then that helps them create the marketing materials and to be more effective at launch. ⁓ Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Okay. So where do the challenges tend to fall in place for you and them? Like where do you really find the friction points where things kind of get stuck? Tad J Hartlaub: Sure. I think it's that value proposition and really understanding what the key value is. And a lot of the times I think because they have a product that a clinician can use, they think it's going to be successful and it can be, but often they need to understand the economic impact. So they need to understand not only the clinical acceptance of the product, but they also need to go ahead and understand the other stakeholders at a facility. So it would be the CFO, it would be the C-suite that are looking at the numbers. they're looking at, it provide not only better outcomes, but is it cost-effective? Is it efficient? can it be positioned to show a financial benefit to the facility too? So it's really understanding all of the stakeholders in the process and making sure that their marketing material and their communications are geared around touching all of the stakeholders. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: That's what happens in these value assessment committees and things like that. So sure that a lot of these startup companies are not prepared and they don't understand always. They think that they have this great little tool that actually has a ⁓ clinical application, right? But if it doesn't translate into a better outcome or a shorter length of stay or a higher reimbursement arena, then hospitals Tad J Hartlaub: Yep. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: lots of sort of complexity that they built into new technology adoption. actually write about this quite a bit where, you know, hospitals have actually designed the complex system of actually getting new technology offered into the system with multiple stakeholders. And if it's a big healthcare system, we have to have multiple hospital presidents sign off on a new technology. And so I'm sure are many times when these smaller incubators aren't really prepared on how to handle the complexity of that, let alone just have the messaging down the right way. Then you've actually got to go execute on that and figure out how to get through those commitments. Tad J Hartlaub: Yep. Exactly. Well, one prime example is this was towards the end of my corporate career before I started MedVance, but there was a company and I was ⁓ product manager. So in charge of the marketing basically for this product that was a lighting system that would go in the OR and ⁓ reduce ⁓ hospital acquired infections. So it would reduce the hospital acquired infections can cause tens of thousands of fatalities each year in the hospital. And so they want to be able to reduce that as much as possible. So they came up with this system, but the system cost was about 30 to $40,000 per OR, and so operating room. And so they ran into challenges. It was a great technology. The surgeons liked it. The operating room managers liked it. But the C-suite was looking at the cost per. operating room and maybe they had six or eight operating rooms. So they're looking at potentially quarter to a half a million dollars spend. ⁓ all of a sudden it runs into different ⁓ priorities. It's delayed years and, and ⁓ they need a new MRI machine or a new x-ray machine or something else. So ⁓ what we did is we looked at, okay, if that's the challenge, what can we do? We understand that the clinicians and the, operating personnel. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Sure. Tad J Hartlaub: they want, they see the clear value in it. But what can we do from a business perspective, the other stakeholders to address their concerns? So what we did is we actually came up with a leasing option to be able to reduce the cost so it didn't hit the capital expenditure of the facility and could be covered by the operating rooms operational budget at, you know, yeah, $500 to $1,000 a month per OR. And they were able to absorb that. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: OPEX budget, yeah, okay. Tad J Hartlaub: and cover that under their budgets. And so it was faster to get the technology integrated into the facility. And it was addressing ⁓ burden and the challenge, the friction point that ⁓ the operating room managers were having. And it very effective. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: That's awesome. And you've always, again, just being in healthcare and, you know, I can remember the days when you could walk something into a hospital and have it used on the same day. you know, those days are way long gone, right? And so, ⁓ know, now there's, and the wonderful thing is I actually just read the other day where CMS with product approvals are going to be lining up a linear path with the FDA regulatory process where Theoretically, there's money that comes out the door when you get approval. That's the other friction point that I've always found with new technologies is that you get the clinical buy through, you get the regulatory pathway, you get approved, and then you have an approval of a brand new technology, but then there's no money. Right? And so, you know, a lot of times in healthcare, if there's no money there from a reimbursement perspective, that adoption Tad J Hartlaub: Yeah. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: capability drops significantly or that ramp up time takes a lot longer to get there because, know, historically Medicare wants to see a year's worth of data and then they say, okay, we'll consider this for next year in terms of putting it into our, so you might be waiting 18 months, you might be waiting 23 months. So, you know, how do those incubators and the startups tend to handle that type of friction when they come to market because Tad J Hartlaub: Mm-hmm. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: You they have a great pathway, they get approved. You've built a wonderful story as a marketing agency, right? But then you get to market and then there's all those other friction points that kind of happen. How do we bang through that part? Do you help them get through some of those messaging pieces or how do you help them there? Tad J Hartlaub: Yeah. One of the key ways to do that is to find champions in the industry. So clinical champions, key opinion leaders, those that are on the lecture circuit are known in the industry. If you can get them on board and you can number one, you can show them the clear clinical value proposition of the device, and then they become a champion for you and can help guide and direct. ⁓ you Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: true. Tad J Hartlaub: a board of advisors maybe, a clinical board of advisors, we often recommend the companies two to three clinicians that are known in the industry, have written articles, have been published and have not a following, but they have a reputation as being honest purveyors ⁓ the And ⁓ of course the sunshine laws, you have to be careful. that balance. So often you just come up with a donation of thing where you might compensate them for their time at donation ⁓ to charity that they believe in. So there are ways to do it effectively. And with ⁓ the voice those champions, it really helps, know, grease the wheel as it were to be able to get market adoption. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Sure. Right. So how long has the company been in the market again, like med vans? Tad J Hartlaub: We've been on the market for ⁓ almost three years now. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: years. So tell me like what's some what's some of the most interesting circumstances that you've sort of taken upon yourself to get to market? Tad J Hartlaub: Sure. I would say one of the ones we're working on now, there's a university again in the Chicago area that actually they a research arm and the research arm started developing testing for immunology, primarily around reproductive immunology. So that was their primary focus and they grew. ⁓ They became world because of their testing and the results of their testing. the accuracy of it and the actual results that went back to the clinician. so in a period of, I mean, it's probably been 15 to 20 years, but they have grown with no marketing effort because they're part of the university and they've got 300 clients, excuse me, in 40 different countries. so ⁓ they wanted to do is they said, hey, wait a minute, not only reproductive immunology, but we've also got other immunology aspects. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Right? Tad J Hartlaub: So they can look at deficiencies in nutrition, vitamins. ⁓ of their most recent ones is a new B1 testing. And B1, ⁓ if you're deficient in it, can cause a lot of problems, including something beriberi, which you hear about in third world countries, but can also affect people in the US. So they wanted to be able to reach out and start focusing more ⁓ on other testing. and to be able to branch out from just reproductive. So, but they're part of the university. So they really didn't understand the market, how to market to clinicians. And so we've been working with them for about a year now. And we've been focusing primarily on the research based and the accuracy of the testing of the lab. And then we've been doing outreach through. campaigns social media were revamping their website and making it much more dynamic and engaging and so it's a multi-pronged approach and then we'll be with them You know and basically as they're ⁓ we call their fractional marketing group moving forward so we'll be their go-to marketing group will provide the creatives digital marketing ⁓ and strategy moving forward ⁓ and They can use us as much or as little as they need, they're able to go ahead and do that. they like it because it's actually more cost effective for them in the long run too. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Sure, so they probably get the experience of a full-blown marketing team, number one, right? they can use that expertise efficiently too. And when you're building out whole new system for them, new websites, new channel delivery, you help them build their ideal customer profiles, I'm sure of all those things. So that's gotta be somewhat very refreshing to... Especially at university, my guess is it's a very technical, very clinical team. so the marketing piece is probably not something that they're used to doing. Tad J Hartlaub: Exactly. As a matter of fact, I think that's been one of the areas that, you know, we've had to really try and, and, because we have to rely on them for the actual clinical and the scientific information and then to be able to convey that in proper format for the other clinicians. So we kind of become almost a communication liaison between once you develop the testing and then being able to look at that, you know, what, what are the, the, the clinicians and the clinics. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Right. Tad J Hartlaub: that are their current customers and will be their future customers. What are their friction points? What are the challenges they having? And then one of the approaches we take, it's an acronym, of course, there's a lot of acronyms in the scientific community. There's some in marketing too. So we go with what we call the ATAR principle, which is awareness, trial, acceptance, and repeat. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: There is. Okay. Tad J Hartlaub: So the first thing is we want to create that awareness piece so they understand the value proposition from a clinical perspective. And then we want them to try it. So one of the things we're doing, they come out with a new test, we'll typically offer a free test to a facility so they can actually experience it, see what it is, the robustness of the testing, the accuracy of it, and then the test results too. And then, ⁓ know, once they've tried it, Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Okay. Right? Tad J Hartlaub: Hopefully they've accepted it. We build that relationship with them and then just repeat. Continue to go ahead as new tests come out. We've got an established customer forum, and we can go ahead and ⁓ that relationship. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: So you build a process and then rinse and repeat and you go from there. Tad J Hartlaub: Exactly, yep. And most of the effort of course is in that awareness piece and getting them to the trial and acceptance. So that's where most of our work comes in. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: That's awesome. So you really remove a lot of friction from like small companies and incubators that probably don't have that marketing experience anyhow. So that's pretty exciting. Tell me like when you founded this business three years ago, let's talk a little bit about MedVans itself and what points did you have in building your business? Because that's always a fun thing to talk to founders and ⁓ co-founders is you know, bringing something to market and it's all yours, right? And you're pretty much the chief everything officer, no matter what happens. So tell me a little bit about as you incubated med vans and what went well, what were some of the biggest challenges and you know, how did you become so successful so fast? Tad J Hartlaub: Well, initially we started in because my most recent ⁓ was in ⁓ was dental injection systems. And we started in dentistry, because it was the most recent, most of the ⁓ startups there have big challenge to get capital. So simply because most of dentistry ⁓ is out of pocket. Some is covered by insurance, but most is out of pocket. So cash constraints are extremely tight. And so there were challenges around that. ⁓ So would work with them to try and go ahead and that docket, a portfolio of information they could then go ahead and try and raise capital with. But there were some challenges around Now we've moved more to the med tech and the biotech side where there is more ⁓ funding available. And so we're able to go ahead and build that portfolio and a packet of information for them to be able to raise investments. There's more money be honest with you in. in med tech and biotech than there was in dentistry. And then what we found is, you know, because of my first experience working at the tech transfer the university, I saw the value in that. you know, there's typically engineers biomechanical or doctors who develop these technologies, and they're very good at what they do and they know the value of the technology and the innovation. But often it's Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Really? Tad J Hartlaub: Translating that into the marketing materials is where they have challenges. So that's where we're able to go ahead and bring our ⁓ bear and go ahead and create those materials, create a very clear communication and value proposition that then can be incorporated into their marketing program and then launch from there. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: That's pretty cool. So how do you go find your customers then? Do you typically just look at that university setting that you're at in Wisconsin? Is that typically where you spend most of your energy? how do you go apply your new incubators or find new incubator pathways? Tad J Hartlaub: Yeah, usually through the universities is the best approach. schools, universities have tech transfer or have an incubator. so, of course their goal is a lot of technologies are developed by staff, teachers ⁓ at the And so they're able to go ahead ⁓ and ⁓ able help them kind of develop the business, develop the, ⁓ primarily the ⁓ and ⁓ and go ahead and do that. they can work on the technology, advancing that, getting it through the FDA system, getting it approved, and then we're able to go ahead as they build that company to go ahead and do that. And that's what the universities, the incubators, typically do. And we're able to be a resource for them because they want it to be successful, the university, because they ⁓ usually some skin in the game and they want to make sure that it's going to be successful. So we're able to to help and support them in that effort. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: That's great. That's pretty cool. So, Tad, you know, as we kind of wind things down, I do have a question that I typically ask every guest. All right. And I'll leave you and I'll give you a little warm up so you can think about it for a few seconds. I don't totally catch you off guard, but if I were to go talk to his 18 year old self, you know, I don't know how many years ago, but if you could go back to when Tad J Hartlaub: Okay. A few, a few. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: a few years and go back and talk to your 18 year old self. What would be the number one piece of advice that you would give yourself when you're 18 that you've, as you've gone through and become an experienced person and professional, you know, what would you give that advice to yourself so that, you you'd have a better route than you, than maybe what you took today? Tad J Hartlaub: Yeah, I think I've always been a dreamer, always had ideas, always looked solutions. I love one of my patents was for a medical device in that actually allowed for better dental x-rays. And I about it by going in and spending time ⁓ in a dental operatory watching. procedures and noticing a challenge when the x-ray was taken. And so there could be some confusion. They may have to retake some x-rays. Everybody has mud on their face. know, dentists are very tight in their timelines. And so they have to push back patients. could cause all kinds of issues. So really looked at what we could do to go ahead and improve that process. And so developed a new system around it. And what I really enjoyed was that that dreaming saying there has to be a better way. There's got to be a solution that can be if we just think about it and we get the right people in the room to go ahead and solve this problem. And I think when I was 18, I had a lot of those, but of course, you know, parents have a tendency to, well, focus on that, which is going to put, you know, food on the table and more of the real. And so keeping my head as my parents would say sometimes in the cloud and Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Hahaha Right. Tad J Hartlaub: they were always yelling for me to keep my feet on the ground, but being able to find that balance earlier and then being able to really go with it more. ⁓ get my first patent until I was in my 30s it would have been nice to ⁓ start a little bit earlier. ⁓ Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Right. Well, you know, that's such a great story, by the way, and it's not a very typical answer to the question that I ask. it's really, you know, a wonderful thing. And I love the fact that you said, you know, head in the clouds, but keep your feet on the ground. And there's a balance to that. And I think, you know, that's a wonderful piece of advice to anybody, by the way. And so with that, Tad, I think I'm going to kind of circle up and exit out and give you a huge thanks for being here today, number one. ⁓ Really great to hear about your professional background, what you're doing at MedVance. It sounds like it's terrific work and it's really a lot of purpose and intent with companies that don't have your expertise. And frankly, if marketing effort's not really done exceptionally well, the likelihood of the adoption of that technology is not going to be very high. So ⁓ kudos you and the team and thank you so much for being here. Tad J Hartlaub: Thank you, Terry. I greatly appreciate your time and being able to discuss marketing in the med tech sector. It's a fascinating time, that's for sure. Terry Coutsolioutsos/RevRx AI: Thank you. Tad J Hartlaub: Take care.