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168: The Power of Short Books in Business with Guest Mike Capuzzi · Imperfect Marketing

• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Imperfect Marketing.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: My guest today is Mike Kapoozie Hopefully I'm saying that right.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: He is a publisher author and book publishing coach.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: He's been helping clients create exceptional marketing results since 1998.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: He's the author of 19 books, including two number one Amazon bestsellers the 100 page book and the magic of short books.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Mike is also the founder of Bite-sized books, so if you've ever wanted to write a nonfiction book but weren't sure how to go about doing that, you're going to love what we're talking about today.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Andrew, thank you very much.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and talk about what is a shook.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Well, a shook stands for short, helpful book.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: It's our brand, if you will.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: But I think the more important lesson there, kendra, is matter of fact.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: We literally just today approved my 20th book front to the designer and it's called the ultimate competitive edge, and it's about why being a book author is so important for business owners.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: And it ties into what I want to share right now, which is every one of us, as a business owner, has competition.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Very few business owners do not have competition.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: Therefore, it's important to differentiate yourself, distinguish your products and services.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: So there's a ton of people that help other folks, like business owners, entrepreneurs, etc.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Publish books.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: We wanted to do something different.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: We publish short books, so books that are able to be read in about an hour to an hour, an hour and a half, etc.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And we just came up with the brand.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: So, just like there's McDonald's and Burger King and they both do hamburgers one's got the Big Mac, one's got the Whopper A Shook is our brand of short, helpful book.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: That's very cool.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about why should a business owner I mean again, we know everybody has competition, and sometimes your competition is your customer doing nothing, right?
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's always an alternative to you, correct?
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: But why should a business owner take time out of their schedule and become a published Shook author.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I would venture to say, kendra, most business owners are in the business of serving or helping people in some way, right and depending on the level, I mean, if you're a pizza shop owner, maybe there's not really a reason to write a book, but there could be.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: But if you're a physician, a chiropractor, tax, a CPA, whatever, a coach, I believe that there is often a very good reason why you should be articulating how and why you are helping the folks that you're helping.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Now, most, if you think about all the people that you follow either online, watch on TV experts, they all tend to be book authors and there's a good reason why.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: I mean still, even today's day and age, being a published book author, whether it's self-published or traditionally published, typically instantly elevate to you above the crowd.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: So if all things are the same, person one is a book author, person two is not a book author and everything else is the same.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Most people will look at person one in a higher, more esteemed way because he or she is a book author.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: So just that alone is important.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: But then, using the book effectively, using it to share your brand, your message, et cetera, these are all very smart reasons why you should consider to be an author and I think in this day and age, short is appreciated not only by the reader but by the author.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: It's a lot easier to write a short book, so there's a lot of good reasons why we think short, helpful books are the ideal type of book, at least for the first time.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Author.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, so does a short, helpful book a Shook?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Does it help?
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Is it a lot shorter to write?
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Is there Like?
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Talk to me a little bit about how this could help a business owner and why it's a good option for them?
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Well, let's hit the first question first.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I was looking to see if I had a traditional book next to me.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, I have a Shooks.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: So a Shook like here's one we just did for a CPA.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: So it's a real book.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: It sits on the bookshelf.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: It's thin, it's about 100 pages, but it's a real book.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: I always have a real book.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: So it's a little.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: You know it's a little smaller, a little thinner.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: The average business book is somewhere around 100,000 words, 7,500,000.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: It could be, you know, two, three, 400 pages, and again, I'm not poo-pooing that those are.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: There's always a good reason to have that kind of book.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: However, you know, there's oftentimes where a shorter book is definitely more appreciated by the reader.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Our Shooks tend to be 12 to 15,000 words, so dramatically different.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: They also follow a very specific formula I have developed from literally from the front cover to the back cover and what it goes in there.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: I'm, you know, multi-decade marketing consultant, so I've really developed this formula.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: So that's the differentiation.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: So it's faster to read, which is important, you know.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Thereby the person reading it might actually read it and hopefully do you know what you're encouraging them to do in the book.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Obviously, it's a lot easier to write a 15,000 word book than it is 100,000 word book.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: So it's a lot shorter time.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Our typical project lasts 8 to 12 weeks.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's faster, sometimes it's longer.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: But so you know.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: That alone is you know the difference between a traditional business book and a Shook.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: But going back to the latter part of your question, again it's about really differentiating and establishing your authority.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: So there's a reason why the word author is in the word authority.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: You can't be an authority until you're an author.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Again, it's the perception which is real Books.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I've gone back, kendra, as far as the 1800s so well over 100 years ago where they've offered a free book as a marketing mechanism to get you know someone to raise their hand and ask for more information.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: There's that.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: But then there's also the perception of being able to be a guest speaker on podcasts, on stage, you know, at events, etc.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: So you know, again, there is something special about being a published book author.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: No, I definitely agree.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know that one of the things that you said earlier on was that if there's two people one's published a book and one hasn't, yeah, people elevate the person that has taken the time to write the book and as a published author over other options.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: So very cool.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about leveraging Shooks to grow your business, because, I mean, most of the people listening are listening because they want to grow their business.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Right, that's the big reason that they're listening here to imperfect marketing.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: How can this help them grow their business?
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Well, there's several ways.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: I mean just the sense of accomplishment of doing it.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, oftentimes, the people we work with.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: They've always wanted to write a book, so there's that innate nature.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: You know I want to do this, I know I want to do this.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure how to do it.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: So just that alone is important for a lot of people.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Now, what also makes a Shook different, kendra, is this is not about making money by selling your Shook on Amazon or at a bookstore or anything like that.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: That can happen, but that's all.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: It's not even secondary.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: It's even further down the ladder.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: It's about, you know, getting the book out there in front of as many people as possible, typically giving it away.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: So it's like this super, you know, business cart on steroids, if you will and allowing the book to create not only the conversation between you and the reader, but also to instruct a reader to what to do next and how to, you know, take that next step with you, the author.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: So that's an important part of, you know, our formula, if you will.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Most marketing content and you know this most marketing material that business owners develop oftentimes is either ignored, thrown away, you know, recycled, whatever it might be, I venture to say, very few people will throw away a book that you give them, even if they're not interested in it.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: They're not gonna throw it away, which, right, there is a little different thing.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: They may even give it to someone.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Hey, this book's not right for me, but I'll give it to Kendra because Kendra could benefit from it.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: So there's this nice pass-along effect.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: So, and people are used to paying for books, right?
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's still bookstores.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: You go to Amazon.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: You typically don't get a free book, unless you're part of Kindle Unlimited, but regardless you're used to paying.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: So there's a psychological difference where, okay, if I give you my brochure, kendra, okay, mike's giving me another brochure, but I'm giving you one of my books.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: You know the Magic of Working Together and then Signing it For you, which most people don't ask you to sign a brochure.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: It's just again, it's that differentiation point.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: So there's ways of using your short-huffle books online book funnels.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: I carry them with me wherever I go, typically from an event whatever.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: So there's a multitude of ways to leverage the book once it's done, either digitally or in person.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things that scares a lot of people is the time investment, and I think that a shook is a lot less scary.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: From a time investment standpoint, it actually feels like it could be doable, right, which I think is pretty cool.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: I like what you had to say, though it's not about making a ton of money off of Amazon, or this is about becoming a published author and leveraging it, because people don't read.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: People get so much junk I'll call it, because a lot of it is junk that they don't read enough stuff.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: They don't value enough of what you're creating, even if it's really good stuff.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: And yeah, you're right, I don't throw out books.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Might donate them at the end.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: I'm actually looking to do a book exchange with some friends, with some older books that we all have, but I've got a big collection of books and, yeah, I don't throw any of them out.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Well, and to that point, Kendra, the other unique component and this is a suggestion for anybody who's considering a nonfiction, business oriented book the more focused your book is on a very specific topic.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: I always like to say rather than write one 300 page book, it's much smarter to write three 100 page books so that you can make them that much more focused, thereby allowing the person to say, hey, kendra's book, that's the book I need to read, therefore making it more likely to be read, which is important, right.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: So the more focused, the more someone can say that book was written for me, the more likely it will be read and then the more likely there will be a relationship to start up between you and the reader.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Our books, our shooks, have very specific triggers built into them to create that relationship beyond the book.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Very cool, so this isn't something that we talked about before, that I was going to ask you, so I might have to go back and edit it.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: You guys will have to see if I'm either saying this or not, but anyway, let's talk.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Can we talk a little bit about the rise of AI with bookwriting?
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that?
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Because, I mean, I'm a big AI fan.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: However, I feel that you have to add your own special sauce and magic and things like that, and that there's a lot of people that are not using AI correctly.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on AI and this trend of having it right in your book for you?
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: It's kind of funny.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: First of all, I listened to one of your past episodes, recent episodes, and I was chuckling.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: I had it playing in the background.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: I was chuckling to myself because you and the guests were pointing out very obvious reasons why straight AI is so noticeable, so generic, etc.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: I will be the first to tell you I was a naysayer until about six months ago ago.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Here we go, Something else coming along that I got to worry about, right?
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm a complete convert, kendra.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: I'm actually partnering with a very astute AI prompt engineer, if you will, as recently as that could be, as known to be that, as recently in the last year or so, but he's really, really smart and we are offering something new in 2024.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: That is, an AI driven book publishing system and our first example book that we've created for a client.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: I am not much of saying this and I've been doing this a long time 20 of my own books, almost 300 client books.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I'm astounded at the quality of it.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Now, the key difference, kendra, is the data set that we used to create.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: His book was not just chat, gpt, right, that's just the world, if you will.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: We created based on his very specific content.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: So we kind of almost created his unique version of chat GPT.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: You know if you could use that, think of it that way.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: So the data set that we were running our questions and prompts to were his from videos from his past, books, from white papers, etc.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: So when we were creating the content for his shook, it was in his voice, it was trained to be in his voice based on his knowledge set.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: That, and I think you were alluding, is the level that will make AI really something special.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: I will also say and then I'll shut up we just did a test last week on an AI driven audio book.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: So we took his shook, which is a paperback book, and I created an audio version using AI.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Kendra, if I had let you listen to it, you would not know it's not a computer generated.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: It is that good.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: I am again blown away at the level of quality of what's going on, to the point where you can hear the person, the AI person, breathing in between words.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: It's unbelievable.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I think the future is bright.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: I think it's a tool like anything that's going to be used correctly, ethically, etc.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's pretty cool.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: That's very cool, because I did not expect you to have that answer.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: But I also agree with you.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: You created your own back end for lack of a better term right your own GPT, exactly To really leverage it off of his input, his insights and his voice.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: His voice, yes.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's even more than that, because it's his insights and it's his experience.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: It's not genera-sized across all of the internet, but that is very cool and very exciting, because I am a huge AI fan.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: It saves me hours and hours and hours, but I can't just copy and paste it anywhere.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: To your point of saying that the word delve doesn't appear in his shook once.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I heard you say that.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: It's one of the red flags who used the word delve?
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: There's three or four words that it'll show up in my chat and I'm like delete.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: I'm like yeah, no, I don't use that word.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: We're not using that word, very cool.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about what.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: If somebody wants to start off with a shook, what do you recommend their next step be?
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Well, with your permission, at the end of this I'm going to give your listeners the chance to read three of my shooks for free.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: So, honestly, the one, the magic of short books, which you mentioned.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: This was an Amazon number one bestseller for a long time, so thousands and thousands of copies.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: It's not that, again, only because it's that popular.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: It spawned many books that I know about and many shooks that I don't know about, because people will just go on Amazon, buy it, read it and then just do it.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: That would be the first step, honestly, because I literally lay out the exact formula I use, the ones we use for our clients, and then see if that fits.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: It'll take you an hour, hour and a half to read, and that would be a great first step, I think.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Then, once you kind of say, hey, this is a good idea for me, again, it goes back to your 2024 word of discipline Just get disciplined, get disciplined.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Creating the content.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: And, more importantly, kendra and this is really the big thing when it comes to publishing a book to be used in your business, writing and publishing the book is the easy part, which might shock a lot of people.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: It's the consistent, persistent use after it's done.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: So it's not sitting in a box in your closet in your office, it's about getting it out there.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: So I would say be disciplined and get the book out there.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Book that's in a box is not helping anybody, but when you're handing them out, giving them out whatever you're doing emails, social media, et cetera you're going to help people.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: You're not going to help everybody, you help, but you're going to help people.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: No, I think that that's great.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: And, yes, if you build it, they're not just showing up.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, they're not coming unless you tell them about it.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: And I think in all marketing, I think that's where people fall short.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Right, I know I fall short in my own marketing that way.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's like oh, yeah, no, I've been talking about this for six months.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: It's like yeah, no, people still didn't see it yet.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: It's going to be a process, it's going to be your signature piece for a while.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: I think that that's important to note.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, it could be measured in years.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: By the way, Kendra the Magic Shore Books was first published in 2018.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: And we're still using it daily.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: That's amazing.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean a book should have a decent short life or shelf life, right, I mean it's not something that's going to expire in a couple of weeks because you put a lot of time invested in there.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: All right, so let's talk about the gifts for my listeners.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: How can they get access to those three books?
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: So the Magic Shore Books, the Magic of Working Together, and this is a little gift book shook.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: I created it called the Magic of Gratitude, so it's a little pocket book that you can use when you need a little inspiration.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: So I caught my Magic Kit, go figure, and if they go to MikeKapuzzicom forward slash magic, you can let me know.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: You heard me on Kendra's show.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I will send you an email with three links and you can read them right online.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: We'll have that link in the show notes and in the YouTube description.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: So, wherever you're at, be sure to check that out and let them know that you saw him on Imperfect Marketing.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Before I let you go, there's a question that I ask all of my guests, and that is the show is called Imperfect Marketing because marketing is anything but a perfect science.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: What has been your biggest marketing lesson learned along the way?
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, just one, I know, that's the hardest part that everybody runs into.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: It's like I have 8 million.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Well, you know listen.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: there's a lot, of course, but I would say one of the biggest lessons I've learned over the years was not believing in my this is going to sound odd but not believing in myself enough to feel like I could claim a particular expertise.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: I used to do a lot of speaking in public from the stage, and I remember starting out at live events.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I used to host my own monthly live event in literally in a college classroom but brought in business owners and I would speak on stage at events and I always thought I was never good enough to do that and it really bothered me, kendra, for a long time.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't, and I was never a perfect speaker.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: You could tell, even on this podcast, I'm not perfect, but I think what I learned from people that told me afterwards after various events it was like you know that authentic nature, you're just who you are.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: So I would say don't think it has to be perfect.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Like when I saw the title of your show, like that's pretty cool.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Like you know, I think a lot of people can really understand and see and embrace authentic marketing, authentic people and whatever that means for you.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: I would just say listen, embrace that and take it as far as you can run with it and always keep in mind the other thing.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: This is not a mistake, but it's always about serving people.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Your book, your products, your services, so get it out of your own head.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Trash whatever it is.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not smart enough to write a book, I don't have enough time.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: No, this is about helping people, so I don't know if that helps.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: but I love that because I really think one.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: It's about confidence Things that you know and do and take for granted other people don't know.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Amen.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Because they don't have your experiences, share it with them.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: It amazes me sometimes how many times I'll say different things that it's like, oh, I just got that.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I do that every day, okay, but they just don't realize it, they don't remember it.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: And so when you repeat it multiple times and you share things that you think are common knowledge, you'll be surprised at how many people don't know that.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was Amy Porterfield that said if you have just 10% more experience, expertise or success than your audience, you are in a place to teach them Just 10%.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: When you think about it that way, it's like huh, I do have a lot to share, right?
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: A lot of things that people can learn and do and create and build from there.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: So very cool, I'm very excited.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I will be definitely grabbing the copies of your books to go ahead and read though those, because I read all the time.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: This year, One of my resolutions is to read more business books than my other books, my romance books.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: But oh yes.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, that is my stress reliever, but that'll be.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Those quick reads will be pretty interesting, so I'm looking forward to that.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me today here on Imperfect Marketing.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: For those of you looking to grow your authority and potentially become an author, ashok may be the answer for you.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Be sure to connect with Mike, leveraging the links that we have in the show notes, and let him know that you heard about it here on Imperfect Marketing and, in the meantime, if you enjoyed this episode, it would really help me out If you would rate and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much and have a great rest of your day.