Latest / Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor / Enhancing Health and Longevity through the science of Hormesis with Professor Grant Schofield

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Enhancing Health and Longevity through the science of Hormesis with Professor Grant Schofield · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Prof Grant, Welcome back to the podcast. I think this
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: is four or five.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: My favorite podcast with my favorite podcast in good Night.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: So yeah, thanks having me better.
• 0:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we are going to talk all things hormesis right now,
• 0:26
  Speaker 4: just for the listeners.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: And I'm very excited about this.
• 0:29
  Speaker 4: I emailed you a few months back and said, I've
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: just been thinking about life in general, and I'm kind
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: of at the fears of my life that i.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Want to be doing cool shit with people.
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: That I really like and admire. And I said to you,
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: how about we create a lab called the hormesas Lab,
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: because we're both big on this and you already run
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: a lab, and you said, yes, so we are.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: This is the I guess the official.
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: Announcement of the launch of the Hormesis Lab or We're
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: going to be doing a whole heap of research on
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: hormesis and the benefits for human health. But just for
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: our listeners, can you give us the kind of broad
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: overview of what hormesis is.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, first of all, it's an exciting announcement, Paul,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: you know, really driven by your energy, so thank you
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: for doing that. I guess homesos, you know, suffering some
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: biological stress and addiction to that is interesting, but I
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: think there's a bigger picture of that, And so homesis
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: makes you a more robust.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Version of yourself. Whether it's.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Light, or it's exercise, or it's some of the slightly
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: toxic photochemicals polyphyin ours or.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Whatever, there's a whole batch of them.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: We'll talk about us today. Why do you want to
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: be robust in the first place. And the reason you
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: want to be robust is that living a good life
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: means that you're going to suffer insults, stress, and really
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: biologically speaking, you want to return yourself back to your
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: normal homeostatus. So the body's ability and when I say body,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I include the brain, the mind, and everything, and that
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: it's ability to return itself to that sort of tightly
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: controlled area that it thrives at is central to everything
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: and you can either have it return thereby I don't know,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: lying in bed. But the trouble with that is that
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: you're down grade.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: The body's not.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Going to waste resources on things news, so then you
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: can't do anything other than stay in bed. So if
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: you want to actually get out and about in the
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: real world, you're going to have to constantly suffer these
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: insults and be robust enough to do them. And of
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: course we were finally tuned to do that evolutionary, but
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: we haven't any capability to do that once you start
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: to air on the perials of modern life. So we
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: need to actively seek out these things now and understand
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: them and understand the science behind it.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: So that's really hell I think about it.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I actually thought it was as we were talking
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: about that. I think we could have a quote for
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: the Hermesis Lab.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: There's two stoic quotes that the obvious one, right.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: Is is that what does not kill us makes us stronger. Right,
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: that's the obvious one for their Mesas lab. But I
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: think there's a couple of quotes that sprung to my
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: epicthetis is we must all undergo a hard winter training
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: and not enter into lightly that for which we have
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: not prepared, right.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: And he was talking about life.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: So that, yeah, that's closer to the en.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Of it, I think absolutely.
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: And then a little subtext from Seneca unimpowered good fortune
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: cannot withstand.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: A single blow.
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's it's all about this idea that hormesis,
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: so exposure to stressors or toxins that at high levels
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: can kill you, but at low to moderate levels, particularly intermittently,
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: into stress resistance. And and this is really the crux
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: of all of these hormetic pathways are hermetic activators that
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: we're going to talk about.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: So and then stress resistance meaning that you can get better,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: better normal normal range of function in homeosizes more quickly.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and actually moving beyond that.
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: So for me, hormetic stressors drive super compensation. You know,
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: if we think of Selly's model, and and and I
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: recently read a paper where they talked about and they
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: used the Latin terms and it was, you know, getting
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: back to normal eustasis. So they they called it when
• 4:59
  Speaker 4: stress load you overload you.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: They call that cacastasis.
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: So it's basically a breakdown of of your of your equilibrium.
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: And then they talked about hyperstasis, which is an elevated state.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: And that's really what we're all about with the hormesis lab.
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: Is not just about resilience and getting back to homeostasis,
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: but how can you make yourself more robust, increase your
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: stress resistance because of deliberate exposure to certain amount of
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: stressors or toxins, which at high levels can kill you
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: but we're after the stress resistance, right, yeah, And I.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: Think you know, we see the physical aspects of that
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: quite plainly. Everyone does. I think about you know, strength,
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: you've got a relativity stuff. Yes, in endurance, you've got to.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Stemini, you've got to actually go out there and do network.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: But in the psychological realm, I think it's equally, if
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: not more important, And it's a discussion that we're not
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: having a society at all. And I mean the sort
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: of clown like behavior of policymakers undergoing you know, keep
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: people safe and removing them from stress to help their
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: mental health is an extraordinary thing to be doing when
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: it is actually likely to be the very problem in
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: the first place.
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, and hey, there's going to let's do a podcast
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: on that, actually, because I think there's an entire podcast
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: on that.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: But let's talk about that.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: I mean, the really obvious one is exercise. But before
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: we get into exercise, let's talk about late.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Well. I think light has just the more you go
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: down that rabbit hole that you're more of, you're fascinated.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: And I think people are well aware that light penetrates
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: to the body, and they might not know that depending
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: on the wavelength of that lightness. Because it's visible and
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: non visible, it penetrates some different and the most obvious,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: well known one is the blue wavelength light that's in
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: that midday sun and whatnot, and so that has a
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: couple of effects of the festival. We're well aware of
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: its effect on metaltonin and you know, the sort of
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: sleepiness woman, and so it's not talking about that too much.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: The second thing is it's hitting in that first layer
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: or two of the skin, and it's hitting cholesterol and
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: it's splitting that into the active form of vitamin D.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: And that's a crucial part of normal ability to.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Get glucose homeore status because it's involved in gluco transport,
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: but it's also in sort of immune system function and robustness.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: It's massive, and I think it's the most overlooked thing,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: and I think there's a few subtleties that it's just
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: coming to my mind at the moment of around that.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: First of all, there is an optimal point beyond which
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: you can actually deplete vitamin D. So once you start
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: to get some reddening of the skin, that that effect
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: is now counter productive. So she's now depleting, and so
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: that's something to think about when you're out in the sun.
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: So are you saying that when you start to when
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: you start, your skin starts to burn and then negatively
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: impacts fitnamin D synthesis.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's an interaction there with blood glucose as well,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: So the higher glucose is.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: The more quickly you get that effect. And that's the thing.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: The second is that there's a much stronger age effect
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: in your ability to do this from the sun than
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: you think. And then she wants you to start to
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: get our age four.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: It's going to become more and more difficult when you're
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: living in places like Melbourne and Auckland in the winter.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: And you know, then if you're thinking about supplementation, I
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: actually think that is actually a reasonable thing to think about.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: Don't either that or just booking some atheists nurser or something.
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: Uh uh.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: So there's that's so there's a you know, there's a
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: strong out effect. There's obviously skinned darkness effects. So if
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: you're dark skinned, you're getting old and you're living in
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: a philly, temperate climate, you're going to have to really
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: max some effort.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: And I think you know, the evidence is strong for that.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and and just to to double click on that ground.
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: A lot of people don't realize and you know, particularly
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: down this neck of the words, you know, we're we're
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: very aware of the dangers of the sun with skin
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: cancer because of the ozone and but the campaigns for
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: that have been so successful that now in Australia New
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: Zealand you have vitamin D insufficiency and vitamin D deficiency
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: about the same that you see in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Right well, I.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Know it is ridiculous and that's actually there's a quarter
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: of the people live in Queensland of vitamin D deficient,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: which astonishing.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Thing to me.
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: And most people don't realize grant that if you're vitamin
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: D deficient it increases your risk of pretty much every
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: cancer other than skin cancer.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I mean vitamin D. I did a podcast on it.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: It is actually we can think of it as.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: A hormone as well as a vitamin because it actually
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: regulated our a hormone regulator. It regulates about a whole
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: heap of different hormones and biological processes. It is so essential,
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: activates more than three hundred genes. It's just it's I
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: think it's the most important nutrient.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. And also.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Forgetting that you're saying deficient, Well that's one thing, but
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: you know beyond actually just having not deficient to move
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: into more of an optimal ran Yes, you know that's
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: actually beyond a lot of the population. So you're right,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: you don't want to get sundur. But my goodness made
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: light for that effect is good. So what come we
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: move on from bottom and DA because I think, yeah,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: there's to there's two way.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: More interesting ones that are coming up, so they get
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: more edgy.
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: And actually grant before we move on, Can I can
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: I just say for for people, they recognize the optimal
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: level of vitamin D are one hundred to one hundred
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: and fifteen animals per liter. Now if you live in
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: the States, you're going to have to convert that. But yeah,
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: that that's what we're looking at for an optimal So let's.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Move on, and you're going to have to make you
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: have to make a fair bit of effort to get there,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: especially that's ducks skin, temperate climate, getting old, and the
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: other respect of courses is big too fat because it's
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: a fat soluble vitamin, and the more fat store you have,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: the more it's sequested away and it's hard to get
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: out again. So yeah, so yeah, high glucos insulin resistance, obesity, age,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: darker skin, temperate climate.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Disaster for.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: Modern life. Yeah. So as as wavelinks changing into this.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: This far red and then the infrared category, and this
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: like penetrates much more deftly into the body. I mean,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: this is an astonishing thing to me as a non physicist.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: But lay a observer of the thing that you've got
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: this thing light with zero charge and zero mass, and
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: just get that around in your head. Then confers energy
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: and can do so across billions of light years, and.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Then in the right waves, it.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Will penetrate into the body, into the cells, into the mitochondria,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: into the electron transport change, and now it's conferring energy
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: in the mitochondria electron transport change by moving electrons, which
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: is of course how.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: We get energy from ADP to ATP.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's an astonishing thing, Paul, I don't it
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Just I just find that an incredible thing.
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: Yes, for physiologists Grant who really understand that electron transport
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: chain and and and the energy creation in the body
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: for something like just just light to be able to
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: affect that is frigging unbelievable, but has massive implications for
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: human health because our mitochondria are so critical for health
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: and and they're they're implicated in a whole host of
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: physical diseases and neurogenerative diseases as well.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Right, And and I know you've been a real fan
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: of this, and of course you can. You can get
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: this a natural light, but then you can you can
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: add to this. And I think you've got the You've
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: got the infra red type sonar, I've got the steam
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: songs do just and have the ficture. And then I
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: think you've got a.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: Your own array.
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: I've got Yeah, I've got a I've got a full
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: light bed that does near infrared and infrared light. And
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: it's just because I looked into the research, I'm like,
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: holy shit, this is if you're going to spend money
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: on your health, and this is a very good when
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: you can buy a whole heap of different panels. I'll
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: link to I'll link to the stuff that I have
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: in the show notes. But but let's let's go back
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: to you to talk about some of the mechanisms by
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: which this this light, whether it's red light on the
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: skin or whether it's near infrared light. You know, what
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: are some of the things that we're actually seeing coming
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: out in the in the research about this well, I
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: think the most.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Interesting to me is a study of Alzheimer's patients wearing
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: these little infrared cats and seeing improvements in symptoms. And
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: I think there's a similar study with parkinstances. They'sn't hold
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: me exacutly.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: There is, there is absolutely studies in Parkinson's.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, these are problems with monocultural function.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: And because you know, as you'd expect the brain being
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: the most energytic demanding organ, if you've got problems and
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: metabolism in mitochondrial function, I think that's the first place
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: that's already going to show up. So I think that's
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: as stylising. So I think that's the frontier. There's another
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: there's one more mechanism which I think is even more edgy.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: If I haven't sent you the paper, and we'll certainly
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: send a link to and put on your notes. But
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: there's a paper published at the end of twenty twenty
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: three called melanin a Unifying Theory of Brain Health, And
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: it's really the only paper published in this and it's
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: in a medical hypothesis June, which I always find those
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: interesting because somewhere on the edge, and it's a US
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: couple who work for a biotech company that's really doing
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: work in biologics in terms of solar energy and solar
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: energy storage, and they've got patents in this, and no
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: one's ready published much else on this, but they really
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: do an extraordinary job of talking about what we think
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: of as a pigment in the skin melanin that I've got.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: I've got darker skin than you. I've probably got more melanin.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: You know, it's also in your hair, which also got
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: more than you.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: The uh.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: But but but but you know, it's it's an interesting thing,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: right because that too. It takes light and it starts
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: to split water into hydrogen oxygen and four electrons it
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: and it can store it, which is you know, the
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: mitochondry don't store energy, they just produce energy, so it
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: can store energy there and you get that sort of
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: increase in melanin and the branding of the skin and
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: it becomes protective and that sort of stuff and has
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: antioxid data effectives.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: There's all that going on.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: So that's a that's there's no debate about melanin's photosynthetic properties,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: the fact that it's in the skin.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: And so on and so forth.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: What's interesting is that these guys show that actually melanin,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: it's not just in the skin, it's in most cells
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: in the body. And they particularly concentrations on neurons, and
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: they show that that melanin gratulates the nucleus in virtual
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: in your oonal cell and does receive non visible light
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: and converts it to energy. And this is I just
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: find this an astonishing thing that there's this whole other
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: pathway that's essentially photosynthetic as well.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: We don't know exactly what it does, but it's implicated in.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Both Parkinson's and Outsider's and other origin to disease. Big
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: problems in that pathway. And in fact, you can actually
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: upregulate this pathway.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: With nicotine. It's the only probable benefit of nicotine.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: And you know, you've seen people in the biohacking world
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: recently microdosing nicotine, and actually nicotine is actually a protective
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: factor for Pakiston's.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: And I'm not saying you get up in smoke. That's
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: obviously a dumbass idea, but the the.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: You know, if all this pans out to be like
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: they say it is, or even half of it's true,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: then to me it means we fundamentally.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: Don't understand a lot of biology.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: And I've been reflecting so much on this because I
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: think it was sixteen twenty eight that it was discovered
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: that we have a circulated we have a heart and
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: circulating bite.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: It's not in compartments as first thought.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Now that would have seemed self evident to me, especially
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: the amount of killing and stuff that was going on
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: and animals and chemists look at it, but that was
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: a first really only came to scientific attention in the
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: sixteen twenty eight. It's so recent in human history really,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: And so now, okay, now I understanding this light and okay,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: vitamin D yeah, okay, of red okay, yep, okay, now
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: melon and there's this other new cab of the rank.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: And you know, it's not well known, and I don't
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: know exactly here it's going to paint out, but it's
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: to me that's fascinate important.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: I mean the whole light thing, which I've only really
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: come across in the last couple of years, it's just
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: freaking mind blowing isn't it so for people just to
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: give a bit of a primer, a practical primer.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: So red light is actually visible, So.
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: Any of the devices where you're talking about light therapy,
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: the red stuff is visible six twenty to seven fifty
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: and nanometers and that's really good for our skin, right,
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: so anybody with acne or skin conditions. I mean, we've
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: got one of those red light masks that the kids use.
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: It's actually brilliant for skin.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: And Is said, yes, So I have these little glasses.
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: That were created by a guy in London and they're
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: called eye Power, and I will put a link into
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: hit us.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah I have them.
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean I've had them for like two
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: years and you just stick them on once a week
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: and you turn it on and it's just this really
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: strong red light that actually has been shown to activate
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: the mitochondria in your retinal sales and an equals one
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: but it is how I still don't use glasses and
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: I'm fifty three, but that stuff is great. So red
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: light great for the eyes and the skin, and in
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: the near infrared, which you can't see, which is actually
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: eight hundred to twenty five hundred nanimeters, but there seems
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: to be a therapeutic window of around eight hundred to
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: twelve hundred, maybe even thirteen hundred, or some claims that
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: thirteen hundred will penetrate deeper, and that makes sense because
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: we know that eight hundred penetrates deeper than six point fifty.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: But there are interesting research studies. One a great one
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: I think you've seen on Alzheimer's patients. They did twice
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: a day with these helmets for eight weeks ten sixty
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: to ten eighty nanometers. They had improvements in that s
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: and it's a global test of memory clock drawing, which
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: you know is a classic test for people with Alzheimer's
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: improvements and cognition concentration reductions and anxiety. And as you said,
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: then other research coming out about Parkinson's disease and these helmets.
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: Now they are pretty expensive, but I find a guy
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: who shows how you can make your own, so I
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: will link to this.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's pretty expensive having your life around by
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: exactly but lost of your soul basically. So there's another thing.
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And look, I have a red light
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: bed that I got from red dot led for about
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: half the price that you'd buy the commercial ones, and
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: as you and me know, Grant Grant, they all made
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: in the same factories in China, right, So well, we.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: Were scoring across the el the Express and there looking
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: at those.
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, so I will I will put a
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: link to the bed that I've got. You can buy
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: all sorts of different panels. But red light has been
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: shown to help with injury recovery, like that chineering for
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: red with injury recovery.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: But for me, the really interesting thing is the stimulation
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: of the mitochondria. Uh and and particularly when we get
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: into brein health. I think that's a whole new frontier.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: And then yea of physiology.
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, pretty, it's just it's it's it's just so amazing
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: that you just pull up this rock and all this
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: ship comes scurrying out about stuff we we just didn't
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: know about. And this Melanie thing, I'm gonna have to
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: look into that paper because that's pretty freaking interesting. Now
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: we could we could go in and talk about light
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: ad nauseum, but I think that's probably the main thing
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: unless you have anything else that you want to add
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: around light.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, so let's let's go and talk now about exercise.
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: So I'll take the lead on exercise and then you
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: jump in wherever you want to. So look, the research
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: shows that exercises the most important thing for your longevity.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: It's as simple as that. And what most people don't.
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: Understand, Grant, is that the reason that exercise is good
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: for you is that it's a stressor. So it's a
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: classic hormetic stressor in that if you don't do any
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: it's really bad for you. Then you do some, it's
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: good for you. You do more, it's better, you do
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: even more it's better. But then potentially ridiculous amounts of it.
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: You stop to see the benefits, and I'll maybe get
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: you to talk about some of that, some of those
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: negative effects, particularly around endurance training and af at the
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: end of it. But I think the two things that
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: are pretty key when you look at all the interventions
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: or or things that extend lifespan, and you VO two
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: max is a clear winner, an absolute clear winner. And
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: there doesn't seem to be an upper limit of VO
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: two right as opposed to the amount of time, so
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: that there's a bit of nuance there.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Right. But that paper in.
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: Jama which we have both seen, I will quickly give
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: an overview of this and you can comment on a cramp.
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: But it was produced a paper of one hundred and
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: twenty two thousand people who were all in their fifties
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: or sixties, underwent treadmill testing because they had ACG tests
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: on their heart, but they also did treadmill testing, They
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: did their VO two max.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: They followed them for fifteen years.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: A bunch of people died, and then at the end
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: of it they went back and analyzed it and said,
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: did their VO two max their cardio respiratory fitness fifteen
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: years ago have an impact on how long they lived
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: or their risk of dying? Right, So a little bit
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: of a primer context for people around hazard ratios to
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: understand this. So what they did in the same paper,
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: which I think is really good, they compared people who
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: were had certain conditions and didn't. So what this paper
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: showed hazard ratios. So if I was a smoker and
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: you weren't, grant, my hazard ratio for death in the
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: next fifteen years would be one point four to one.
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: So what that means for the light people out of
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: forty one percent increased chance of death in the next
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: fifteen years because I'm a smoker and you're not. Everybody
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: gets that if I had carneriorady disease, twenty nine percent
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: increased risk of death. If I had diabetes forty percent
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: increased risk of death.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: If I had hypertension twenty one percent increased risk of death.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Right here we get to the exercise.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: What about the INSIGHT's rental disease?
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Well, oh sorry, yeah, yeah, cool n stage renal disease.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: My kidneys are packing up and my hazard ratio is
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: two point seventy eight, So I'm one hundred and seventy
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: eight percent more likely to.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Die than you in the next fifteen years.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah, what's the fir your kids?
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. But here's the thing.
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: If you were below average, and what they did in
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: this low the lowest is the lowest twenty five percent,
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: then below average twenty five to fifty, then above average
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: fifty to seventy five, and then high the top twenty
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: five percent, and then elite. I think they carved the
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: top three out of the high It was two and
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: a half or three.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah.
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: So if I'm low the lowest twenty five percent and
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: you're below average, my risk of death compared to yours
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: ninety five percent increase my hazard ratios one point ninety five.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: This is like having diabetes, carnery art disease, and hypertension.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: That's the risk of me being low versus you being high.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: But here's the ridiculous one.
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: If you're elite and I'm low, I have a four
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: hundred and four percent increased risk of death compared to you.
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: That blows end stage renal disease out of the water.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: In fact, you could have end stage adrenal disease, high pretension,
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: corny already to these diabetes and smoker, and you wouldn't
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: have to see the bloody risk factor of somebody low
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: versus heart.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like that's crazy.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a massive effect, and you take notice of
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: those as sort of that whole you know what counts
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: as a big effect in these studies that gets it. Interestingly, though,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: there's a paper just come out this week around the
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: same thing, and I think it I never quite understand
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: these mend Ali and randomizations. Yes they use, but they
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: make a good point around VO two for its own sake,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: because it's.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: At we go I need that number of the two max.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: But you know that they argue that actually it's probably
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: the best and most accurate proxy of overall how active
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: you are, you're sort of combined on well being. It's
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: a sort of weighted moving average of that as well.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: So the more recent stuff counts, but it does have
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: quite a long history. And actually, if you sort of
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: low a look, there's a media to fixes on body composition, strength, strength, endurance,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: some of.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: These other measures, those are actually the causal things.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Rather than vi to itself being the main causal factor
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: in the science psych it's actually just a very repeatable,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: accurate measurement that proxies, you know, much of all of
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: hormitic medicine in many ways. So that's I think that's
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: I quite like thinking about it that way. The way
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: that I don't understand their methods fully, by the way.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: But that's that's another story.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: I think that is a really good point. I mean
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: your veal too.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: It's not really something that you can cram for, you know,
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: I was, I was a cromer at university. I'm sure
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: you probably were right. So it's not something that you go,
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: I've got my vel to you. Next week, I'm going
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: to I'm going to train like a mad man for
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: a week. It is the best proxy of your overall
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: training history, I think, And that and there's.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: A well been layer as well over above training history
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: because your ability to recover from trying to get enough
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: sleep well enough, it's sort of built in so then
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: a bit as well. Yeah, so it's sort of like
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: a master measurement in some ways.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: You might think about it.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: I mean just wondering about it this morning when I
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: was coming up here thinking about that, you know, as
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: VO two actually just a proxy as a sort of
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: home more medic maths to measurement because you've got to
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: to achieve there in the long term. You've got you
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: can't be having a sleep stuff, You've got to be
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: eating in a reasonable way.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's a very good point and it probably
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: plays into the next one where you know, next to
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: your veal two, one of the biggest predictors of longevity
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: is muscle strength. So and we see this in different research.
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: Some say it's muscle mass and others said strength. I
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: think mass is a proxy for strength, But for me,
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: the mechanism behind both strength and veal two is really
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: about let's talk about the hormetic mechanisms. Because exercise is
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: a stressor, right. Frank Booth showed fifteen years ago that
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: when you exercise. As soon as you start, you get
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: a big spike in stress response jenes. Right, so these
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: are the drivers of hormesis, and then there's an activation
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: of metabolic priority genes and then mitochondrial enzyme genes.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: But for me, I think the driver of a lot
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: of this are miokines.
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: So some people who are familiar with this podcast will
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: have heard of but these are molecules that are released
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: from exercising muscle.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: We've known for decades.
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: I mean when I went to my master's in exercise science,
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: my accounts, we were told helped to break down glucose
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: and fat and give the muscle energy and then help
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: in the remodeling to make them bigger, faster, stronger. We
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: now know that maokines get out into your circulation and
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: they have a positive impact on every single organ and
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: every organ system in the brain. But interestingly, from a
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: harmetic perspective, they activate the NRAF two and AR pathways, right,
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: So these are involved. These are critical pathways involved in
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: antioxidant defense at a cellular level and protection against inflammation.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's so interesting that they do all the
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: signaling like just all over the place and specifically for
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: this type of thing and a different the SIME molecules
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: does the same signaling but somewhere else differently.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: For another you know, it's so yeah, the fact that
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: grant you know, the first markin was discovered in the
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixties.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: We now have identified more than.
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: Six hundred MIO kinds, so molecules produced from muscles that
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: have signaling effects throughout the body, and we only know
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: what about sixty.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: Of them do.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: But we know they improve the health of your immune system,
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: your gastro intestinal system, to help your pancreas create insulin,
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: help your liver dispose your glutcose. They remold your bone
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: and blood vessels throughout your life. And in the brain
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: they trigger the release of BDNF that helps you create
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: new brain sales and protects the brain sales you have
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: against and veg VEGF that that helps.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: To grow that vascular network.
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: So and a lot of it is mediated through these
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: stress response pathways. So for me, classic hormesis right there, I've.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Been having these dreams. I don't know if you have
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: them or just lying and being thinking about this. So
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: I was imagining that I was like a nanosized vision
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: of me that I could travel around the body because
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: we're talking about these things. It's all very esotiric and
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: we've got these mechanisms and it makes sense that it's level.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: But I'm just I mentioning, you know, you know the
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: cellular biochemistry. There's also things going on there. But you know,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: when we I measure them in diagrams, it's not, of
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: course what they look like at all.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, And.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, what would it be like to be
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: inside the pancreas, I mean, randomly thinking about these things?
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: Well, that's what reason that is.
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: Actually that's quite interesting because this is how all this
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: shit happens, right, It is happening in the biochemistry. It's
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: happening at its cellular level. It's all the signaling stuff
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: that's actually going on. But let's give people, let's give
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: people some guidelines because I really want this to be
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: pretty practical, and so recommendations are around training, right, so
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: from a cardiovascular perspective.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: This is kind of more your bag than my bag.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: And talk to people a little bit about zone two
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: maphatone and you know the benefits of zone two and
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: then maybe some VO two max stuff, what like how
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: do we train for those different things?
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's the.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: I think it's basically the way I can see of
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: that type of exercise. We're talking about this too, almost
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: completely different physiological effects of that exercise. One This is
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: the same too, which is I prefer done fasted or
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: without adding extra glucose really.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: And the thing about that is that it's activating, it's
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: returning insulin to basic.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Levels, glucose to base levels, it's starting to now act
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: and get all the mechanisms of utopogy. And this is
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: essentially a catabolic process which is highly anti inflammatory and
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: very good for you. So you know, the trick there
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: is to keep the exercise very easy, and people find
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: this hard to do because for most people that's going
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: to be walking, some people make running or you know,
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: it's just conversation or you feel it you're finishing the
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: workout feeling invigorated. So just think about that anytime you
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: go working out, actually finishing this feeling good. And a
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: lot of people like to use heart rate to monitor that,
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: including myself. Off it's just an easy way of keeping
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: because you know the various a bit day to day
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: and you can cope with that with duration and whatnot.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: So that's Mapatome's formula is one hundred and eighty beats
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: for a minute minus your age is about the upper limit.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: Of what we call the aerobic threshold.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: So it's you know, you've mentioned walking up the stairs
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: carrying a bag of grocer's where you first start to
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: catch any breath at all. It's not lap take thresholder
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: and a threshold we really starting to puff, and it's
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: just that first thing. You're just trying to stay under that.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: And I think you can do several hours of that
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: in a day if you had to. Certainly you should
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: be doing several hours in a week.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: And this.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Even if it fears down into a zone one, which
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: is even less than that. You know, okay, elite runners
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: may not benefit from walking except for for recovery, but
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: for most of us that's going to be good as well.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: So I think you know that as we know, and
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: you're very good at doing guard and projects and these
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: types of things where you're just out all day.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: Cracking on with it and working.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I really enjoyed cycling as sort of a middle ledge
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: man in life for a time. Coffee, So that's that's
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: the thing.
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: And I think just for me, I really am a
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: good little thing for people to know about what how
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: much is too much? And you know, at the upper
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: end of zone two you should be able to talk
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: but not sing, right, So.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: If you.
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: Are struggling to then hold a conversation, in our likelihood,
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: you've gone out of zone two and into zone three.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: I think that's pretty key.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And that that heart rate varies both within people
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: day to day and also just depending on your experience.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Like I'm fifty five and that methodtime one four the
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: eighty minuitas isn't correct for me at all. My aerobic
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: threat was at about one hundred and forty bats per minute,
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: and so I consider in the one thirties all day fine, and.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: That sort of thing.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: That other people are going to be in a different
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: space than that. You know, things just are different from
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: person to person, but you'll figure it out. It's you know,
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: it's not too hard to work with that. I think
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: the other end, though, that high intensity, which you've been
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: more into than me, which is you know, it's not
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: just it's actually highly pro inflammatory. So this is an
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: exercise that glucose is a primary fuel, and I think
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: you could even take some extra with you when you're
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: before we're doing that.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: It's brief, it's hard, and it's going.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: To push up that sort of two mats type thing,
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: but there's a whole different amount of signaling. And the
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: thing about, of course, this is the real hormetic part
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: of it, that this is highly stressful. The response is
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: briefly inflamma tree and then with appropriate recovery you're improving.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: And I think, so now it's anabolic. So one top
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: fix is highly beneficial for its catabolic effects on mitochondrial
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: function and everything, and the other one is highly beneficial
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: because it's exact opposite of the anabolic.
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's such an interesting thing about exercise.
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, at both ends of the scale it has benefits.
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: And I think for people the way I say, if
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: you're going to do VEO two max training, you know,
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: the classic stuff is intervals of between three and eight minutes,
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: and that that's probably dictated by your training history. But
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: at the end and you're going hard, you're going like
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: the hurt right now, oh absolutely, really really psychologically uncomfortable. Right,
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: So the idea is that the end of the three
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: minutes or the eight minutes, So if you're in an
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: eight minute versus a three minute.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: You're in a slightly lower pierce, but you should be
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: busted at the end of it, like like god, this
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: is fucking horrible. And then you rest for.
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: About the equivalent amounts if you're doing a three minute
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: interval three minutes hard as and it's any bit of
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: equipment that you can be a rower across trainer or
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: a bike running running outside, and then.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: You rest for about three minutes. Now, if you're doing
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: eight minute.
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: Intervals, I don't think you need eight minutes rest, right,
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: you need three to five minutes rest.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: But then you repeat those and you do three to
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: five of those.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: Now, Interestingly, some people don't respond tremendously well to that,
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: but they do respond to the.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: More classic Tobata shorter.
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: One thirty thirty on, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, so that
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: and that's that is really horrible, right, I.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Do those sorts of things on my versa climber thirty
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: on thirty off.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: It is freaking evil, right, and you are you know,
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: you do six to ten of those, but there's a
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: you know, if you do five of them, that's a
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: that's a ten minute workout, but it's hell, it's hell
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: on earth. But that will really move the needle around
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: your VO two max and all those hormonic stressors. I
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: think the key that I've learned over the years, and
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: a lot of it talking to you, is don't do
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: all of your exercise like that, because I have traditionally
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: done all of my I even do my strength training
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: like that. And actually, now let's talk about strength. So
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: for the average individual, you want to be doing two
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: to three full body weight workouts a week. Forget about
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: bodybuilding training muscle parts. I actually like thinking about movement patterns.
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: Particularly you want to be functional. Now, if you're an athlete,
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: this doesn't count, right, this is different. This is if
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: you want longevity. I like thinking about push, pull, bend, squat, lunge, rotate, right,
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: and then you have exercise around that. And I tend
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: to when I'm programming, I'll do like push, lunch, rotate, pull,
• 41:04
  Speaker 4: band squat right, or you know, try to alternately.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: Sort of cycle through those, like on each of those
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: and then come back again or something.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So what I will tend to do.
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: So we've got you've got six different movement patterns, and
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: then I add I add a rehab one at the end, right,
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: So I do seven, and I do thirty seconds of work.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: So time under.
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: Tension I like to think about rather than reps and
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: really emphasizing the eccentric portion. So I'll do thirty seconds
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: of work, ten seconds of rest, which isn't rest, it's
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: moved to the next station, thirty seconds of work. So
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: I do seven of those, and then I do that
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: four times, so I do a circuit.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: So there's okay, I'm going to go.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: So where I work here in my labor I've got
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: an awesome gum I'm going to do. I like this
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: time under the tension, but I'm going to do that.
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And so that that is about sixteen seventy in
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: it workout. It's less than twenty minutes. But I'm getting
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: twenty eight sets of resistance training in there. And I'm
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: also activating my cardiovascar system. Because you're breathing out your arse,
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: you know you're going pretty hard, particularly when you're doing
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: the full body movements, the bends, the and the and
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: the squats.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: So I think that is a bit of a guide
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: for people how much.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: How much you're putting on, Like when you're doing the
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: a weighted part of it, they have close to getting
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: a failure.
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: I am pretty much at failure at the end of
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: those thirty seconds, right, So I'm just sort of judging
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: it a bit.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Like that, Yeah, that's right.
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: Now, I will then I will then mix this up
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: where I will do specific strength stuff, right, So I'm
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: on a bit of a strength fee. So you'll find
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: that that that that's thirty seconds. You know, depending on
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: the exercise, you're getting ten.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: To fifteen reps.
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: That that's kind of in the hypertrophy fees. And as
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: I said, you can lengthen the eccentric and you reduce
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: the reps. Then if you want to train strength, it's different. Right,
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: it's three to six rms.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Like you can do one and two. But I don't
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: recommend that normal people do that.
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: That's more for athletes because the injury risk when you're
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: doing a one red max is pretty high. So that
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: you pick a way that you can do for maximum
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: three to six that's going.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: To do the best in terms of strength. And then
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: you want more rest periods.
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: So I will then tend to because I don't like
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: sitting around a lot, I will turn it out, yes,
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: so I would superst even when I'm doing strength, so
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: I might do chest back right and I'll do three RMS,
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: so i might do wait to chin ups or or
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: rose or something like that, and then i'll do a
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: bench press or a standing push press, and I'll do
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: three to six RM and I'll go chest back and
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: then I'll have a little bit of recovery and then
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: i'll go back.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: You want about two minutes rest before you.
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: Go again, and to be very impatient with two minutes, right,
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: So sometimes I'll do a try set, I'll add something
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: else in and then i'll have by the time I
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: get back to my chest, say about two minutes have elapsed.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: So for people the superseit terms when you're doing you're
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: doing one exercise, which doesn't really think the other exercise
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: exactly the bridge space or something the other way, just
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: carry on the other.
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: And for me that's all about efficiency, right, So if
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: you've got unlimited time, then you can do the classic routical.
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: I don't have unlimited times, so when I'm doing the
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: strength stuff, I tend to do super sets or try sets, right,
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: and then there's all sorts of extra stuff that you
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: can add in that I think is beyond the scope
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: of this.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: When we're turning. This is just really the key thing.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: And then if you want to be training for power
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: and I can't pronounce that word power pow e R.
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: People think I'm talking about golf when I say muscular power.
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: The key thing that people don't understand is that's quite
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: light and it's fast movement. So it's plyometrics right, it's jumping,
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: but it's also when you're doing a weight, it's about
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: thirty percent of your rep max. So it's only about
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: thirty percent of the weight that you could left. So
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: say you're going to standard standing cable press. It's actually
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: quite light, but it's really explosive and you need a
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: fur bit of rest between the par stuff. Right, So
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: that I think is an overall not exhaustive, but I
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: think that gives people an overall guide around. So for cardio,
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: you want to do a bit of Zone two, then
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: you want to do the hard horrible stuff around your
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: VIEO two max intervals, then your strength. Two to three
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: full body circuit training sessions a week will get you
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: a really good level of functional strength that plays in
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: beautifully to longevity.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be driving the edge or content
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: of your podcast, no, but I reckon now it's a
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: good time to introduce something we weren't planning to talk about,
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: which is around protein. Oh yes, well, I just think
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: there's a couple of things here, and there's a couple
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: of core studies just come out. So first of all,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: it's all good and while having you know, ormoned stress,
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: especially for muscle, but you are going to need some
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: of the actual building blocks for that, and you know,
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: the essential mental acids are a pretty important part of that.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: So you know, eating protein is important. But but I reckon,
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: there's too this is this is there's the I think
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: we did talk.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: About this, the stuff that they do with the they
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: feed the radio label phenol analine.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: To the cows and then they know we haven't talked
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: about this, No go ahead.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: So these are these Dutch.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Guys, and so this is an expensive thing, like a
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: million million euros for a cow, right, So you want
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: to figure out how and what happens to ingested protein
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: and you know, how does it end up in the muscle,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: what's the sort of rate of turnover, and you know,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: how does stress affected and all that sort of stuff.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: So you can't just so you've got to do something
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: of radio label amino acids. You can't just seat them directly,
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: because you're not really getting them from foods. To tell
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: you the story, So they feed these things to a
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: cow and milk the cow or get them not powder.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: They bchel the cow, get mints and steak and stuff,
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: and then you can eat the mental steak or the
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: milk powder, and you can do studies about them.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: Bioposite people's muscles and.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Look at protein synthesis, which is pretty crazy for a start, right,
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: and so the classic fair study is just getting a
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Uni student and putting a cast on one of their
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: legs for a week, so they've got one muscle's completely isolated.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: The other it's the left leg as mobilize rightly, it
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: serves as it's control. End of a week, you know,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: feed them some of that milk powder, biop see the
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: muscle and sort of look at the protein synthesis and
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: you see that it's impaired by about thirty five percent
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: just with the So it's interesting for a start, yes,
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: but then also in the active muscle you look at, well,
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: what's the rate of the synthesis. You know, what does
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: this mean for entire the entire muscle protein renewal and
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: synthesis of the muscle and they go, oh, yeah, well
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: sort of every three months or so, the entire muscle
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: is turning over.
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: That that's really important for people to understand, grant, right,
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: is that a lot of people think your muscle is
• 48:17
  Speaker 4: just your muscle, and it is. Your muscle is not
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: the same muscle as that was three months ago. It's
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: a completely new muscle.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: Well, and then anyway, so just to carry that on,
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: they had somehow are studying there's a bunch of people
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: with epilepsy who are getting some brain surger, and well,
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: we could do the same feeding study. And then now
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: because we've got access, we could do a little biopsy
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: of brain to sure and look at and they're like, oh, yeah,
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: well that looks like because it's such a meniabolical actor.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: But augum, the whole thing's already turning over every six weeks.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: Right, that's an incredible thing for the brain, right, find
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: that an interesting Yeah? Yeah, And then the same group's
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: done that.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: I think you probably heard this study just in the
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: last couple of months, is that they actually started feeding
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: people after exercise either twenty five grams of available protein
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: or one hundred grams. And you know, the eIDAS are well,
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: you know, really, twenty five grands is sort of the
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: maxim you're going to get for protein synthesism.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: More than that's not going to affect muscle proteins.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: And actually one hundred gramds not only has a bigger effect,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: but keeps going for you know, twelve hours later, it's
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: still got an effect twelve eyes.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's really interesting.
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: So that's why you'll wrap on that stuff. Not my research,
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: but so interesting, right, Yeah.
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: It is interesting, And you do bring up a really
• 49:37
  Speaker 4: good point I must not even mention. It is that
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: you need more protein than you think, and as particularly
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: as you get older, we lose muscle protein synthesis. Now
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: let's bring that back to muscle mass and strength. It
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: is we lose muscle mass at the rear of three
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: to eight percent per decade, and it accelerates, and it
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: is not unusual for somebody to hit the ears of
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: seventy five and they've lost up to half of all
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: the muscle mass. What that means for people is you've
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: just lost fifty percent of the ability for MYO kinds
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: to actually do their work.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: So for me, that's really really key.
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so interesting, isn't it. Yeah?
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: And this muscle protein synthesis. It decays as you eat,
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: so they now wreckon that. These recommended guidelines which used
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: to be you know it was the RDA was zero
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: point eight grams of protein per kilogram.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Of body weight. Nowhere near enough.
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: It's double it, yeah, double it at least, and especially
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: as you're getting older.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: You want to be up to two grams per kilogram
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: of body weight.
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: Now the guide that I had used was and forty
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: grams of protein is what I was aiming for after
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: I do a workout, and about forty grams of protein
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: at each meal. But for me, you have to have
• 51:01
  Speaker 4: that four times a day if you want to optimize
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: protein synthesis. And this is what most people don't realize
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: Grant right, is that we have a fur chunk of
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: storage capacity for glucose in terms of liver glycogen and
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: muscle glycogen. We've got an almost limitless storage capacity for fat.
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: But you actually don't store amino acids. And amino acids
• 51:23
  Speaker 4: are so critical for cellular functions. So at night, and
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: particularly if you haven't had enough protein, and especially at
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: dinner at night, your body is breaking down your muscle
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: every single night to get those amino acids to give
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: them to the cells to keep the cells going right.
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: That they are essential building blocks of life. And most
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: people do not eat anywhere near enough protein. And also
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: if you are vegetarian or vegan, it is harder to
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: get the protein. Now some people are very diligent about it,
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: but the average person who's vegetari and or vegan will
• 51:58
  Speaker 4: definitely not have enough pro team.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: So they've got to really think about focusing on protein.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: You know, they hey, can you do this on Australia, Like,
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: we're just it here. I've got a petition who's on
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: a farm and that one of.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: The cows was just charging your and tripping your against
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: the fence. So they knocked it off and we got
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: a quarter of it, which was but you can buy
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: like and you say when they call it, you know,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: we'll get half a beast the other thing in Ausie
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: and you can just like get a.
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: Load of Yeah, there's there's there's there's a lot of
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: stuff now from from the farmer direct where you can
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: just buy a massive amount. I mean, Cardie's dad has
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: has caries up at his farm and occasionally he would
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: butcher one and we get a bucket load of meat
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: which was was fantastic. The vegans aren't going to like
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: this little bit of the conversation, but anywhere.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: This is the end of Part one.