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When Perfectionism Anxiety Eats Your Identity | Burnout Prevention Strategies for Women · Work Stress Anxiety | Burnout Prevention & Work Anxiety Help

• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, it's Cheryl here and welcome to work stress anxiety.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm joined again by Dr.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Carla.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the question we're sitting with I think in this conversation.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: When did you do well at work?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I turned leading your work hard enough.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's get to it.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, I'm Cheryl Paris and you are listening to Work Stress Anxiety.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I am very privileged today to have a wonderful guest with me who's going to share some really important insights with you.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome Dr.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Carla.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Hi.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thank you for having me.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's really interesting, I think, and you've probably noticed it too with the work that you do, that there is almost like what I would describe as an achievement trap, you know, we're constantly performing, and then that sort of gets tied into our feelings about identity, and it's almost as if if that achievement is challenged in some way, we can fit start feeling morally suspicious of ourselves and everyone.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just curious to know how does a person know when ambition has quietly become self-abandonment?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think um a couple of ways.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: One, um, that they're kind of pleasing everyone else and not themselves.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: So whether, you know, whether it be, hey, Cheryl, do you want to go to this place for dinner or that place, you know, and not just saying what you really feel and putting everybody else first?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think another way is really kind of um being very maybe defensive or not having the level of security, like if someone gives you feedback or criticism, or you know, can you take it in stride and say, oh, thank, you know, thank you so much.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, or if if you make a mistake or you fail, can you take it in stride?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Can you um realize it's just a learning experience?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't define who you are.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people uh attach a lot of their worth to their achievements.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I won an award at work, I got a promotion, I got a raise.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: All those things are great, yet without those things, you're still enough.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: But we don't always necessarily realize that, or once we do realize that, we have to do the work around that.
• 3:09
  unknown: Yeah.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's really interesting you say that because for me it's it's um, I'm just thinking about my own experiences.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I when when I had what I call my burnout, I know I attached a lot.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: When I mean a lot, I mean like 99.9% of who I was around my work, which I cannot believe.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I think when I think back and I think, really?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was I was I was suicidal.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was seriously contemplating whether I should be here or not.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, like I said, I was really fortunate.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: I had my daughter.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my partner was around.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: He I mean, he was a great husband.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not knocking him at all.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I really think um, you know, my daughter kind of pulled me back, and it was like her, it was almost like her zest for life and her curiosity, you know, wanting to explore just kind of made me think, you know, what am I what am I doing here?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, Dr.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Carla, what do you think is the difference between having a healthy pride about the work that you do and your uh you know how you're how you're showing up, especially in the workplace, and the need for your output to prove you are enough?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I think it partially shows up in your like daily life routines and habits, because the habits that you have become your routines, your routines become your life.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if your routine and your daily habit is to wake up in the morning, go on your phone, work all day, and literally eat dinner, go on your phone or emails or whatever, and then go to sleep.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you are basically a robot.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: You are defined by your work, okay?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and then if your habits are, you know, I take some time for myself in the morning, I get ready, I go to work, I do the best I can, I take a break at lunch, after after work, I go and work out, or you know, so just to give an example.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think that your energy says a lot too.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't mean that by like energy level of how much energy you have to go through the day, but when you walk into a room, are people at people just naturally attracted to you?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Are they um wanting to hear more of what you have to say?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do they, because if you are living your true purpose in your flow state and doing things in a balanced way that is healthy for you, it's going to radiate out of you.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I think part of it's what you do on a daily basis and the decisions you make for yourself.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then part of it's because I've made these decisions and live these healthy habits, I'm living a great life.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't help but enjoy everything that you're doing.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now I have I have a real problem with the P word perfection.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I have such when I oh it's really weird actually, because when I travel and I hear someone say, oh, that's perfect, or perfect, or oh, it's like it's like I have some sort of nervous reaction to it.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because I just I just I just think it's one of the these words that was created with good intent, but however, it to me it's just it's it's just another way of saying, look, I have very high standards.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think to me there's a line, there's a definite line between excellence and um perfection.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just I'm just curious from your own experiences where is that line between excellence and your nervous system not being critical of you?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it comes when you kind of no longer subconsciously have to prove anything.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it it doesn't mean that you don't care, you don't try to do a good job, but you know, if if you create something at work, a PowerPoint presentation, and you you do a great job and it comes out pretty well, and you make a few mistakes and you say, all right, well, I take that feedback for next time.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm gonna try this, that, and the other thing.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: But that went pretty well.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're not proving anything to anyone, you you feel confident in yourself.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if you go up there and you make a mistake and you completely crumble and you can't go to work the next day, or you're so stressed out you can't sleep, that's the problem.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so I think it's um wanting to show up as your best self and doing the things you need to do to get there by taking the time to do the work you need to do to create the presentation and practice and all the things, yet your life doesn't depend upon it, you know, and and you know, you're gonna go home and have dinner regardless if you had the great presentation or the okay presentation.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think um having a level of excellence and having standards for yourself is absolutely paramount.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: You have to, you know, that you don't want to put out things that are just not good.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yet knowing that you are doing the best you can with what you have in this moment, and you can't, you know, you can't compare yourself to I I'm a coach of families.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't compare myself to Tony Robbins, who's been coaching for 40 something years.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: This doesn't make sense, you know.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: So if I did, I would think I was a failure.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's again knowing that you don't have anything to prove to anyone, that you're just meeting your own standards, your own expectations, and and next time you're gonna do even better than you did this time.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just thinking about um all the times when I've been in situations, and you do, you're true, you're trying to control everything, aren't you?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I remember I did a presentation uh once, I think it was for a job, yeah.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure it was for a job actually.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was an in the interview, and I I was so nervous, as you are, you know, I really wanted the job, and I I convinced myself I really wanted a job, and um they the the you know they had uh everything set up for me to do my presentation and then it completely nothing worked, they couldn't get anything to work.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether there was a power cut, I can't remember, but I remember it and I was just thinking, um, and then they said to me, Cheryl, do you do you know how it how it works?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I went, Yeah, you do.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember in that just in that moment, all of my nervous energy just got converted into confidence.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Did I get the job?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, but I I did a very good interview, that's all I remember, and I was so proud of myself.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it just shows you even in the even in moments when you think I'm just not there, it can it can it can easily it can easily switch.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you I'm sure you know that there's a difference between people pleasing and the that level of over-responsibility we have for being rewarded at work.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just curious for you, how do you how do people pleasing or how does people pleasing and over-responsibility get rewarded in the workplace, even though it's it's what's damaging people behind the scenes?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, essentially you just get more work because when you have a boss who is can rely on you because you do a good job and you take your work home or you stay late or you do all these things.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that doesn't mean that does not mean you don't put your effort in and sometimes have to stay late.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: I understand that that that's part of a job.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yet they're gonna give you more work because the guy or girl next to you might be slacking or might be set, maybe they're not even slacking, maybe they're just setting boundaries.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And since you're not setting boundaries, your boss is gonna keep handing you other things to do because they're getting done.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And in the meantime, you're slowly deteriorating, you know, whether it's your health or your relationships or your just your time, your lifestyle.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so that people pleasing piece of like, I'm gonna do X, Y, and Z because my boss will say, Great job, whatever validation you're looking for, is just gonna get you more work.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And more work isn't a bad thing if you can handle it and you're living a balanced life, but more work on top of someone that's already a workaholic is gonna break you.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where the boundaries and the standards need to come into place.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's interesting because what that's one of the things that I often um I hope help people to understand um that it, you know, just if you're supposed to finish work at at 4 p.m.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: because you know you've got other commitments in your life and that's what you've agreed, then you should finish at 4 p.m.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you shouldn't feel uh, you know, that you should apologise for that.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that you can't work over if there's a special thing going on, but I think a lot of people, you're right, try and please everybody but themselves.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I I I'm just curious, what would you say to someone who's listening to this podcast now who knows that they're a bit on that people pleasing side, they know that the whole workplace system is part of the problem that they have, but they still feel personally responsible for trying to cope better.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say to them?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think part of that, well, what I would say, there's two things they need to do.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: One is they have to start taking action to uh show up for themselves to set those boundaries for themselves and work their work around the rest of their life, not their life around the work.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: So understand people have to work nine to five.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know there's some people that don't have the flexibility of their own business or working remote, got it.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: But in that nine to five, you're, you know, you're taking your lunch break, you're taking your breaks, you're that is actually setting up you setting you up to be more successful, prioritizing to do the more difficult tasks in the morning, you know, check your emails later, that kind of thing.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I think in addition to taking those actions and um really setting the boundaries for yourself, is you have to do the inner work.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you can't just say, I'm gonna not be a people pleaser and I'm gonna set the boundary with my boss, because you might do it this week, but it's not gonna last very long.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: You have to do the inner work of um really digging down to the limiting beliefs that are getting in the way of you becoming the opposite of a pleaser and really thinking you're enough and knowing you're worth um, you're worth it.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it is the priority for me to work out at the gym and spend time with my family before I, you know, worry about my job.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think you have to look at yourself and you have to assess and you have to say, like, you have to work on your mindset and the beliefs that you're believing about yourself and those thoughts and your subconscious.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, that's the kind of stuff I do as a coach.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: So whether you reach out to a coach or you kind of do some self-help on your own, I think it needs to be both the action taking and the mental piece that you have to work on and unwind all those um and rewire all those uh aspects of your brain to kind of think differently about yourself and your life.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you said something really interesting that if I had Spock ears, they would have pinged up.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned limiting beliefs.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I know I probably know what you mean by limiting beliefs, but what I want you to to do for me, just in case any listener doesn't understand what we mean when we say limiting beliefs, can you can you can you kind of explain what a limiting belief is?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it's basically something that you assume about yourself that isn't true.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And if, for example, uh I've been telling myself, I don't know, since I was five years old that I was ugly because I have curly hair.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody in the street told me that, my mom told me that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't true, but let's just say that.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: So then now I'm carrying this fact, this, this assumption about myself that everyone must think I'm ugly because I have curly hair and so on and so forth.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then every time I look in the mirror, and this becomes a limiting belief.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's a belief that I'm having my about myself that limits me as a human being, whether it's how I look, how I act, my performance at my job.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: So when I say we're unwinding those limiting beliefs, then we're gonna shift that belief into I'm gorgeous because I have curly hair.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Curly hair is the best.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: People love curly hair.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: I love my, you know, and so on and so forth.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not as easy as just turning it from a negative to a positive thought, though over time you start to believe, oh, I am pretty.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I do have great curly hair.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and then that builds your confidence, that builds, that builds your self-esteem.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And here we are with more time living in a powerful state versus versus not.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for thank you for explaining that.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um before we go, because I just sticking on limiting beliefs, because I really do think um when we when we're trying to measure self-worth, a lot of it is to do with how we perceive ourselves and um and and the limiting beliefs that we've like you say, the assumptions that we've made about um ourselves.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm kind of putting you on the spot because um I I'm just like that, but if there was one question that you could say to our listeners that they could ask themselves today before before they go to sleep tonight, just in in a casual way, so not not judging the outcome, what would you what would you say to them?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh the question they could ask themselves.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I would say, who am I becoming?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: So not what am I gonna do tomorrow, what am I gonna achieve, what's my goal, uh, you know, all these kind of things.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Just who am I becoming?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Am I you know a kinder person, a more friendly person, more outgoing person, someone that supports others?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: You you fill in the blank.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: But it's kind of a a question that you can journal about or just think about and ask yourself on a daily basis, do my values of who I'm becoming, the next version of myself, do they align with what my life looks like?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So if I value freedom and travel, but I haven't gone on a vacation in two years, if something's not jiving here, right?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the question would be who am I becoming?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And if you like the answer, great, you're on the right path, things are flowing, you're living your life, it's you're you're balanced.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: But if you if you don't like the answer, then that's that's that's what you need to work on.
• 19:05
  unknown: Cool.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I want to thank you so much, Dr.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Carla, for your time this afternoon.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining me.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's been uh it's been so refreshing.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, I appreciate it.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, this is just amazing.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the biggest takeaways, I think, from today's conversation is this your work can matter without becoming the place where you have to prove your entire work.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And Carla gave us some really useful questions to ask ourselves.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: I want to thank Carla again, Dr.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Carla, for the conversation.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Remember all of Carla's links are in the show notes.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if this episode mess makes you please follow WordScript Anity.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Bye for now.