Latest / Long Haul Marriage Roadcast / The Same Damn Argument (Part 4 of 10) 10 Things That Can Make or Break Your Marriage

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The Same Damn Argument (Part 4 of 10) 10 Things That Can Make or Break Your Marriage · Long Haul Marriage Roadcast

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up, baby? Howdy Didn't warm up my pipes.
0:33
Speaker 2: That's all I needed. Huh?
0:35
Speaker 1: That's all you needed?
0:36
Speaker 2: Just clearing my throat.
0:37
Speaker 3: Good.
0:37
Speaker 1: There's an old dish over there at the Nabe's house.
0:43
Speaker 1: Get in the old fell for it. Get the old
0:45
Speaker 1: dish installed. Go with the AT & T fiber optics, baby.
0:49
Speaker 2: I'm tired of that.
0:51
Speaker 1: Hey, hey to AT & T. They're sponsoring today's episode.
0:56
Speaker 3: Wow.
0:57
Speaker 1: How are you?
0:57
Speaker 3: Wow.
0:58
Speaker 1: What a... You hear the allergies in the voice?
1:01
Speaker 2: I hear it.
1:02
Speaker 1: So I have no... I've got no... It's all lows.
1:05
Speaker 1: Can't even get the falsetto going today. Yeah, I can
1:09
Speaker 1: hear it in your voice. That's going to hurt later
1:10
Speaker 1: in the jam session. Yeah, so recovery time after keeping...
1:16
Speaker 1: So everybody knows about Hayley Rose. Did we announce her last.
1:19
Speaker 3: Yes, I think we talked about that last week.
1:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then we had to keep... No, had to.
1:24
Speaker 3: We got.
1:25
Speaker 1: We got to keep, glad to keep the Castle Kids. Yes.
1:29
Speaker 1: While Chan and Rye went on a little vacay for
1:32
Speaker 1: their anniversary. And so we had Roo-Roo and Max in Georgia, five-year-old, two,
1:37
Speaker 1: three-year-olds for Friday, Friday night, Saturday, Saturday night, Sunday, Sunday afternoon.
1:44
Speaker 2: Oh, wow. You're now counting in increments.
1:46
Speaker 1: The hours. And then chiropractor visit first thing this morning.
1:51
Speaker 2: Yes.
1:52
Speaker 3: And all I kept thinking was, Like, I remember this time.
1:57
Speaker 3: I remember raising kids all that close together. We didn't
2:00
Speaker 3: have twins, but practically. And I just remember those days.
2:05
Speaker 3: But I will say that was 30 years ago. And
2:09
Speaker 3: so a little bit more.
2:12
Speaker 1: Energy then.
2:13
Speaker 3: But they are amazing kids and so much fun. I
2:19
Speaker 3: started a note section in my notes, just funny things
2:22
Speaker 3: that they said while they were.
2:24
Speaker 1: Name a fun thing because I've got one that I
2:27
Speaker 1: didn't even tell you because it happened yesterday after you left.
2:30
Speaker 3: So I was out there swinging them between... Oh, we
2:33
Speaker 3: didn't say it rained all weekend.
2:35
Speaker 2: So the whole.
2:36
Speaker 3: We usually were outside 24-7 when they're here.
2:39
Speaker 2: Of course.
2:40
Speaker 3: So it rained the whole time. But anytime we found
2:45
Speaker 3: any windows of time, we would go outside, go for
2:48
Speaker 3: a walk, go to the park, whatever. But I was
2:51
Speaker 3: outside swinging them and... doing something silly. I'm not near
2:56
Speaker 3: as silly as Papa is.
2:57
Speaker 2: They're always like, Papa, you're so silly. And with Mimi,
3:00
Speaker 2: they're just like, can I have some more juice?
3:03
Speaker 3: Anyway, so I'm swinging them and doing something funny with them,
3:07
Speaker 3: trying to probably be like you and be like, you
3:10
Speaker 3: better stop it. Like they'd kick me. You better stop.
3:13
Speaker 3: You better not do that. And so I did it
3:16
Speaker 3: over and over because it would just get this reaction
3:19
Speaker 3: from them where they were just cracking up. Well, I
3:22
Speaker 3: did it probably four different times. And then after the
3:26
Speaker 3: last time I said, you better stop it. And Max said, Mimi,
3:30
Speaker 3: when you say it over and over again, he said,
3:33
Speaker 3: that's just obnoxious. And then he said, do you know
3:36
Speaker 3: what that means? Do you know what obnoxious means? I'm like, Max, yes.
3:42
Speaker 2: And you're being obnoxious.
3:44
Speaker 1: Sounds like Ruru's been talking to him.
3:46
Speaker 2: They just giggled.
3:49
Speaker 3: Anyway, then I was Typing that into my phone, but
3:52
Speaker 3: I was saying it. Actually, I was doing a voice
3:55
Speaker 3: memo into my notes section of that exact thing that
3:58
Speaker 3: I just told you.
4:00
Speaker 2: And at the end, I said, period. And George just said, Mimi?
4:05
Speaker 1: Mimi?
4:06
Speaker 2: Why didn't you say exclamation.
4:10
Speaker 1: Point?
4:11
Speaker 3: And I said, oh my goodness. I said, because I
4:14
Speaker 3: didn't need to put that. That wasn't warranted.
4:16
Speaker 2: I did not need it.
4:17
Speaker 1: She hears you say exclamation point all the time.
4:19
Speaker 3: Anyway, those were two of the very many funny, funny
4:23
Speaker 3: things that they said.
4:24
Speaker 1: That's so funny.
4:25
Speaker 2: Oh, we love them.
4:26
Speaker 1: So yesterday you had gone and we had done, like
4:32
Speaker 1: you said, the park and gone to the little library
4:34
Speaker 1: at the park, which was cool. Came back and it
4:38
Speaker 1: was just about an hour and a half till we
4:40
Speaker 1: had to load up and take them for their second
4:43
Speaker 1: leg of the journey. And so we turned on Brave,
4:49
Speaker 1: which I couldn't believe they all three actually agreed on Brave.
4:52
Speaker 1: So we turned on Brave and Papa popped some popcorn.
4:56
Speaker 1: I'd give him a little snack and it ran out.
4:59
Speaker 1: And so I said, hey, how about some popcorn? And
5:02
Speaker 1: so we're sitting there and I sat down and Georgia
5:06
Speaker 1: was sitting right to my right, like on the little
5:10
Speaker 1: ottoman right there in the middle of the couch. And
5:13
Speaker 1: so I just mindlessly, when I get popcorn, man, I'm
5:18
Speaker 1: going in, just handfuls, right? So I'm just mindlessly feeding
5:21
Speaker 1: myself the popcorn, just going boom, boom, boom. And all
5:24
Speaker 1: of a sudden I just feel her looking at me
5:28
Speaker 1: and I turned and she's literally like two feet from
5:30
Speaker 1: my face and I turned to the right and she's
5:33
Speaker 1: just looking at me and her mouth was kind of
5:35
Speaker 1: open and she had like literally like a piece of
5:37
Speaker 1: popcorn in her hand, just kind of with her mouth open,
5:40
Speaker 1: just looking at me like she was mid bite, you know,
5:43
Speaker 1: but her mouth was open and she was looking at
5:45
Speaker 1: me and had this funny grin on her face and
5:48
Speaker 1: she went, Papa, slow down.
5:50
Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness.
5:54
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just so funny because when I
5:56
Speaker 1: looked over, you could tell she was kind of embarrassed.
5:59
Speaker 1: She was just staring at me like, oh, my gosh,
6:01
Speaker 1: this guy doesn't take a breath, man. She goes, Papa,
6:05
Speaker 1: slow down and had the funniest. And I just started
6:08
Speaker 1: laughing and she laughed.
6:09
Speaker 2: Oh, that's great.
6:12
Speaker 1: Oh, man, they crack me up.
6:13
Speaker 3: Yeah.
6:14
Speaker 1: Oh, and then how many times? Twice. She said, Papa...
6:19
Speaker 1: You look like you have a baby in your belly.
6:22
Speaker 3: Okay.
6:22
Speaker 1: All right. So, Papa needs to get on the shot
6:25
Speaker 1: or something.
6:26
Speaker 3: Oh, my goodness.
6:27
Speaker 2: Anyway, that was funny.
6:29
Speaker 1: So funny.
6:30
Speaker 2: You're so cute and honest.
6:31
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, we had a great, great weekend with the grandkids.
6:33
Speaker 3: And then a couple of days before then, we had
6:37
Speaker 3: our evening for the long haul.
6:39
Speaker 1: Evening for the long haul. That we told you all about.
6:40
Speaker 3: Yeah.
6:41
Speaker 2: Went great. We had a good group out.
6:43
Speaker 3: That was so.
6:43
Speaker 2: Just some coffee and.
6:45
Speaker 3: Yes.
6:45
Speaker 1: On a Wednesday night, right? On a Wednesday night. I
6:48
Speaker 1: was just so honored. And that was, I mean, that
6:50
Speaker 1: place was packed. The weather didn't cooperate. So we moved
6:54
Speaker 1: it from the porch to inside, but what a, what
6:57
Speaker 1: a great, I like, I loved it in there and
7:00
Speaker 1: just an intimate setting.
7:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.
7:02
Speaker 1: Some new faces. It was so, so cool. And then
7:05
Speaker 1: some of our ones that have come to every single
7:07
Speaker 1: workshop and a lot of our supporters and friends and
7:10
Speaker 1: just dear friends, board members.
7:11
Speaker 2: Yeah.
7:13
Speaker 1: But, Yeah, what a cool, cool thing. And just so
7:17
Speaker 1: thankful for all the people who support us and are
7:20
Speaker 1: continuing to just listen to opportunities that they have to
7:26
Speaker 1: partner with us and just kind of hear what's going on.
7:28
Speaker 1: I got to share a lot from the Marriage Collective,
7:31
Speaker 1: some things that really lit the fire under me again
7:34
Speaker 1: about just, like I said, I think I said last time,
7:38
Speaker 1: just how important this work is and that we're not alone, man.
7:41
Speaker 1: We're not doing it alone.
7:42
Speaker 3: Yeah.
7:43
Speaker 1: But, uh, yeah, it was cool.
7:45
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's, it's fun to share things that you're excited
7:48
Speaker 3: about and we're excited about long haul marriage and love
7:51
Speaker 3: getting to do it together. And even though it can
7:54
Speaker 3: be heavy, sometimes Georgia heavy, uh, even though it can
8:00
Speaker 3: be heavy work at times, it's just full of, full
8:04
Speaker 3: of joy. And we see so much fruit coming from
8:08
Speaker 3: it and, So we just, man, we love to share
8:11
Speaker 3: it with other people.
8:12
Speaker 1: The word I keep coming back to is giving people hope.
8:14
Speaker 1: So many people have lost hope for true transformation. Can
8:18
Speaker 1: someone really make a difference and help us in our marriage?
8:21
Speaker 1: Because people just, we get to a place, all of us, man,
8:24
Speaker 1: where you feel stuck and you just think this is it, man.
8:28
Speaker 1: And when you see that hope return and people start
8:31
Speaker 1: to apply some new things and things that they've just
8:34
Speaker 1: never thought of or things that, you know, they thought of,
8:38
Speaker 1: or they've read or they heard, but then when you
8:40
Speaker 1: hear us talk about some of the practical ways that
8:43
Speaker 1: we put some of those things, those tools into practice
8:46
Speaker 1: and just again, real practical things that we can do
8:49
Speaker 1: that we've done, I would say there's a hundred books
8:52
Speaker 1: out there and there's all kinds of stuff that you
8:54
Speaker 1: see on social media and you can chat GPT it
8:56
Speaker 1: all day long. But when I talk to couples, I
8:59
Speaker 1: only share the things that have worked for us. Again,
9:03
Speaker 1: I'm not going to talk about all the stuff that's
9:04
Speaker 1: good stuff, and that's for somebody else to share. But man,
9:08
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about the things that we have
9:09
Speaker 1: actually implemented that have made a difference, that we've seen
9:13
Speaker 1: transformation because of those things.
9:15
Speaker 3: Yeah. One of the things I love that we get
9:19
Speaker 3: to do too is when we talk to a couple
9:22
Speaker 3: or when we talk to individuals about how to become...
9:27
Speaker 3: a more healthy, whole human being, because that's what marriage is.
9:31
Speaker 3: It's two human beings in relationship, very close relationship together.
9:37
Speaker 3: And so when you both can work on becoming healthy
9:41
Speaker 3: and whole separate, and you bring that into the marriage,
9:45
Speaker 3: you know, we always say like if, you know, if
9:47
Speaker 3: one person's healthy and one person's unhealthy, the marriage is
9:50
Speaker 3: probably unhealthy. Mm-hmm.
9:51
Speaker 2: You know, or two unhealthy people. It's super unhealthy.
9:55
Speaker 1: Yeah. You hang out in the infirmary, you're going to
9:57
Speaker 1: be sick.
9:57
Speaker 3: Yeah.
9:58
Speaker 2: But when you can help.
10:00
Speaker 3: Someone like flip that switch in their brain about like,
10:04
Speaker 3: what can we, what can I do to become a
10:08
Speaker 3: healthier version of myself and bring that into my marriage? Um, man,
10:13
Speaker 3: that's just really sweet. And we've learned, I think that's
10:18
Speaker 3: what we've learned recently. probably in the last, I don't know,
10:20
Speaker 3: handful of years, just becoming healthier and healthier ourselves so
10:25
Speaker 3: that we can bring that to each other. Sometimes we
10:28
Speaker 3: focus just on the marriage and you're like, but you're sick.
10:33
Speaker 2: Like, what can you do to be, you know?
10:36
Speaker 1: That's why I love, I love seeing you today. I
10:39
Speaker 1: was thinking that when I saw you sitting outside, when
10:41
Speaker 1: you're having a moment of peace or getting some vitamin
10:43
Speaker 1: D or just out there. And sometimes I see you've
10:47
Speaker 1: got your, spiral notebook and, but you're just, it's down
10:51
Speaker 1: in your lap or down to the side and you're
10:52
Speaker 1: just looking out and just watching the hummingbirds and just
10:56
Speaker 1: looking at nature. And I just know you're getting filled up.
10:59
Speaker 1: You're having your quiet time and in that, that mindfulness
11:02
Speaker 1: space and, or just quiet space, that silence, you know,
11:05
Speaker 1: that just so not done in today's culture. Uh, not
11:10
Speaker 1: only are you getting filled up there, but also, um, just, um,
11:15
Speaker 1: we talk about distractions, but without boredom, you know, or
11:18
Speaker 1: just taking a minute to just empty ourselves, there's no creativity.
11:23
Speaker 1: You don't have time to create, to think, to let
11:26
Speaker 1: things bubble up to the surface and, you know, see
11:30
Speaker 1: what's kind of on your heart, what's passionate, things that
11:32
Speaker 1: are brewing in you. And that's just so good. So
11:34
Speaker 1: when I see you sitting out there, I think I'm
11:36
Speaker 1: going to get a better woman today. Yeah. She's going
11:40
Speaker 1: to be a better version of herself.
11:42
Speaker 3: I get to talk to some, young moms this Wednesday
11:45
Speaker 3: and I'm going to talk about some of this and
11:47
Speaker 3: I know because I've been there I know some of
11:50
Speaker 3: the pushback to what we're talking about like well how
11:54
Speaker 3: in the world yeah I mean when I've got excuse
11:57
Speaker 3: me when I've got you know little ankle biters around
12:01
Speaker 3: me all the time or I work full time you
12:03
Speaker 3: know I wake up at five and don't get home
12:05
Speaker 3: until 6 30 or whatever like It does seem like, wow,
12:09
Speaker 3: it's such a luxury to be. But in every season
12:14
Speaker 3: of my life, I've had to figure it out. And
12:17
Speaker 3: either I did, and I was a more peaceful.
12:22
Speaker 1: Fruit.
12:23
Speaker 3: You can find pockets of your day to be able
12:28
Speaker 3: to do that. Or how do I do that over
12:32
Speaker 3: my lunch hour? Or waking up a little earlier or
12:36
Speaker 3: instead of scroll time, like really protecting what goes into
12:39
Speaker 3: your brain. If it's important to you, I really believe
12:43
Speaker 3: you're going to find time to do it. But I
12:45
Speaker 3: can see where young moms or people that work a
12:48
Speaker 3: bazillion hours a week have to figure out, okay, how
12:53
Speaker 3: am I going to fit it in or what's going
12:55
Speaker 3: to give so that I can have the time to
12:58
Speaker 3: ground myself and become centered in what matters most, you know? Yeah.
13:04
Speaker 1: I mean, it is tough. I think about that Friday, Saturday,
13:07
Speaker 1: and Sunday as much as we loved it. It was just,
13:10
Speaker 1: I mean, solid. Every minute was taken unless they were asleep.
13:16
Speaker 1: So I just think of especially young moms and dads. Man,
13:20
Speaker 1: it's tough. It is, but how you do anything is
13:23
Speaker 1: how you do everything. So if you can take time
13:26
Speaker 1: to quiet your mind, just go back to your, again,
13:31
Speaker 1: daily affirmations are so important.
13:33
Speaker 3: Yeah.
13:34
Speaker 1: And just remember, you know, get grounded. Remember exactly who
13:38
Speaker 1: you are, what your values are, what you're prioritizing. And
13:41
Speaker 1: then live according to those best you can. Let that
13:44
Speaker 1: spill out into, you know, every interaction, how you discipline,
13:48
Speaker 1: how you parent, how you treat your spouse. And, you know,
13:53
Speaker 1: paying in, like you said, paying attention to yourself and
13:55
Speaker 1: what do you need. So many times you were the
13:58
Speaker 1: last person you checked in with. And somebody asks you, well,
14:01
Speaker 1: what do you need? It's like, huh? What do I need?
14:05
Speaker 1: Like I haven't thought of that in a while. So yeah,
14:09
Speaker 1: all that's really important. So getting back to our little
14:14
Speaker 1: marriage series, we're on episode four of the old marriage
14:20
Speaker 1: challenge and the same damn arguments, what we're going to
14:24
Speaker 1: call this one today. Yeah. Conflict and resentment and basically
14:29
Speaker 1: having these arguments with our spouse and We have them
14:32
Speaker 1: all the time. And sometimes we think, wait, haven't we
14:36
Speaker 1: been around this mulberry bush a few times? Like we've
14:38
Speaker 1: had this exact same argument a hundred times and how
14:42
Speaker 1: frustrating that can be. So, yeah, we're going to talk
14:46
Speaker 1: about recurring arguments and, you know, escalation of those and
14:50
Speaker 1: why they escalate and kind of learning the skill, like
14:56
Speaker 1: being able to get ahead of the escalation to where
14:59
Speaker 1: you could actually see I love this visual. Let me
15:02
Speaker 1: just jump in. Cynthia Bergeau, who worked for the Center
15:08
Speaker 1: for Action and Contemplation with Richard Rohr for a while.
15:11
Speaker 1: I don't know if she's still on the staff there.
15:13
Speaker 1: Excuse me. But she talked about one of her practices,
15:17
Speaker 1: just visualizing instead of being in the canoe that's floating
15:21
Speaker 1: down the rapids, and as a floating, like literally like
15:27
Speaker 1: hurling towards the water, rocks and the rapids and about
15:32
Speaker 1: to go over a waterfall. She would picture herself getting
15:36
Speaker 1: out of the canoe and sitting on the bank and
15:37
Speaker 1: seeing all the chaos or the argument or the mess
15:42
Speaker 1: or whatever, and just learning to see herself separate from
15:47
Speaker 1: that and letting that go, letting it go over the
15:50
Speaker 1: waterfall and not being in the canoe. And so many
15:52
Speaker 1: times we're just in the canoe until it goes over
15:54
Speaker 1: the waterfall. And then we're trying to just clean up
15:57
Speaker 1: the wreckage. rather than learning to get ahead of it.
16:00
Speaker 1: And there's certain things that you can do when you
16:02
Speaker 1: start to feel it escalate and feel yourself, like what's
16:05
Speaker 1: going on inside of me? Feeling anger, feeling resentment, feeling disrespect,
16:12
Speaker 1: feeling dismissed, feeling ignored, all the things that feeling abandoned,
16:16
Speaker 1: feeling rejected. So if you can check in with yourself
16:20
Speaker 1: soon enough and realize that's what I'm feeling right now,
16:24
Speaker 1: it's not about the money that you're fighting about. It's
16:28
Speaker 1: not about the trash or the dishes, you know, or
16:31
Speaker 1: the errands that weren't run or the projects that weren't finished.
16:34
Speaker 1: A lot of times it's those other things that are
16:37
Speaker 1: running below the surface. One of the things, though, I
16:41
Speaker 1: wanted to mention, shout out to John Gottman and his work.
16:45
Speaker 1: I've mentioned it before, and some people say, hey, can
16:47
Speaker 1: you slow down and, you know, when you mention something,
16:49
Speaker 1: put it in the notes or, you know, just repeat it.
16:52
Speaker 1: So John Gottman in his book... the seven principles for
16:57
Speaker 1: making marriage work. He talks about the four horsemen of
17:01
Speaker 1: the apocalypse. And he, and he actually says with his
17:04
Speaker 1: research that he's done, he's done extensive research in, in
17:08
Speaker 1: like literally studying and observing couples in, in a setting
17:14
Speaker 1: as much as it can be, you know, a controlled
17:17
Speaker 1: experiment where you're, you, you know, you're being observed because
17:21
Speaker 1: they know they're being like videotaped, um, But they're supposed
17:25
Speaker 1: to forget about that and just carry on. And funny,
17:28
Speaker 1: he says it seems like people do because of what
17:31
Speaker 1: he captures. A lot of the fights that start happening
17:35
Speaker 1: and people that are making bids for connection and the
17:38
Speaker 1: couples that aren't. Healthy couples are, the unhealthy couples are not.
17:43
Speaker 1: They resign or give up in making those bids for connection.
17:47
Speaker 1: But he talks about the four horsemen of the apocalypse,
17:50
Speaker 1: that if any of the four are happening, you are
17:54
Speaker 1: heading towards divorce. And that's kind of, it's one of
17:58
Speaker 1: these things that he says, I mean, you can't cheat
18:00
Speaker 1: these statistics. He says the evidence is pretty conclusive. And
18:05
Speaker 1: the data shows that when you are doing any one
18:08
Speaker 1: of the four, you're heading towards a divorce in your marriage.
18:13
Speaker 1: So number one is defensiveness. Two is stonewalling. Three is criticism.
18:20
Speaker 1: And four is contempt. And so I just thought, when
18:24
Speaker 1: we started talking, getting ready for this, this episode, I
18:27
Speaker 1: started thinking so many times, I know we were employing
18:33
Speaker 1: three of the four, at least, you know, and, and
18:36
Speaker 1: if not contempt, because that may sound like a strong
18:39
Speaker 1: word where at least our body language was showing contempt.
18:42
Speaker 1: I remember you telling me one time, just to look
18:44
Speaker 1: on my face, it's like, you just look like you
18:47
Speaker 1: made this face. Like you're disgusted by what I just said,
18:50
Speaker 1: you know, and that, that.
18:52
Speaker 3: And more than that at me, It's not just what
18:55
Speaker 3: I just said. You're disgusted with me.
18:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. That's the way you felt. And maybe
19:00
Speaker 1: I was just disgusted at the thing you said because
19:03
Speaker 1: I felt like you ignored the talk that we had
19:05
Speaker 1: about the finances the day before when you brought up
19:08
Speaker 1: the thing you wanted to do. And then it's going
19:09
Speaker 1: to throw our debt retirement plan out the window.
19:14
Speaker 3: Yeah.
19:16
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that. So when you have this same
19:19
Speaker 1: damn argument going around and around and around, but you've
19:22
Speaker 1: done it over and over and over, what's that about?
19:25
Speaker 1: So when you think about some of the ones that
19:26
Speaker 1: were recurring themes in our marriage, what comes to mind?
19:32
Speaker 3: Something that I felt like came up a lot, and
19:35
Speaker 3: mine would probably, like my go-to would be defensiveness. And
19:39
Speaker 3: you would be like, quit being defensive. And I'm like, well,
19:42
Speaker 3: I have to defend myself. Someone's got to defend me.
19:46
Speaker 3: So that was like my go-to and still can be.
19:49
Speaker 3: But when I would... feel like I was, you know,
19:54
Speaker 3: at my bandwidth, like doing everything I could do to
19:57
Speaker 3: care for the family, to take care of everything, to
19:59
Speaker 3: be a great manager of the home or whatever, if
20:01
Speaker 3: you would bring up something that didn't get done or
20:06
Speaker 3: that quote unquote, we needed to do, or whatever it was,
20:11
Speaker 3: which became an, a big argument. It wasn't, it wasn't
20:14
Speaker 3: about the thing that you were saying, Hey, we need
20:17
Speaker 3: to do this. It was me feeling like I was
20:21
Speaker 3: being criticized or that that was something that I should
20:25
Speaker 3: have done. And you may not have meant it like
20:27
Speaker 3: that at all. Maybe you did mean, Hey, when we
20:31
Speaker 3: get a chance, this is something we need to get
20:33
Speaker 3: around to doing or whatever. You may have just said
20:35
Speaker 3: something really small. And I, I, became defensive about it
20:40
Speaker 3: because I felt attacked or I felt criticized or I
20:44
Speaker 3: felt like you were disappointed in me, like I wasn't
20:49
Speaker 3: doing enough. And so I would react with this, you know,
20:53
Speaker 3: kind of, you know, just like jump back at you.
20:57
Speaker 3: Usually something to point something out in.
21:00
Speaker 1: You You would go right for the jugular on that.
21:05
Speaker 1: And I would think, what in the world? And that would,
21:08
Speaker 1: I remember this a lot. So what you just said
21:11
Speaker 1: reminded me of when we would have some place in
21:15
Speaker 1: the house that just became the place for clutter. It
21:19
Speaker 1: was just, it was the catch-all and it wasn't just
21:22
Speaker 1: the kitchen drawer, right? It was like this space in
21:25
Speaker 1: the house. And I would say, man, And I would say,
21:29
Speaker 1: because I was piling stuff there too, but we just
21:31
Speaker 1: started piling, piling, piling. I'm like, man, we need to
21:35
Speaker 1: get this pile of crap cleaned up. And so just
21:39
Speaker 1: that right there, I'm thinking, I'm holding this pile in contempt.
21:44
Speaker 1: I really was. I was thinking to myself, I hate
21:46
Speaker 1: this pile. But you're feeling like, especially if you had
21:49
Speaker 1: done 99 things, and now I'm bringing up number 100.
21:52
Speaker 1: I remember... You're getting, again, so defensive. And you would think,
21:57
Speaker 1: you would start naming all these things. And I'm thinking, what?
22:01
Speaker 1: I literally was thinking, no, what I'm saying does not
22:04
Speaker 1: negate all of the other 99 you've done. We aren't
22:07
Speaker 1: talking about those. But to you, It was like you're
22:10
Speaker 1: not appreciating all I've done and that I am at
22:13
Speaker 1: my bandwidth.
22:15
Speaker 2: I'm done. Yeah, I was feeling so much pressure.
22:18
Speaker 1: And I was just thinking, I can throw in this
22:20
Speaker 1: thing that we both agree on. Man, we need to
22:21
Speaker 1: have spring cleaning, get rid of this crap. But you
22:25
Speaker 1: would personalize that or internalize it as I'm pointing that
22:29
Speaker 1: at you. And yeah, and then there were times where
22:32
Speaker 1: I would take that and listen and think, you know,
22:35
Speaker 1: I was, that was, it felt more directed towards you.
22:39
Speaker 1: You said the we.
22:40
Speaker 3: Yeah.
22:41
Speaker 1: And you're thinking, oh, really we? You got a mouse
22:44
Speaker 1: in your pocket? You know, you're saying me, I need
22:46
Speaker 1: to do this. But so can't you say or could
22:51
Speaker 1: we agree that so many times what's underneath those escalations
22:57
Speaker 1: or the same damn argument is feeling underappreciated?
23:01
Speaker 3: Sure.
23:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
23:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't about the stack of mail on the
23:06
Speaker 3: table or... you know, whatever it is, it was... Do.
23:11
Speaker 1: You notice what I do? Are you thankful for what
23:14
Speaker 1: I do?
23:14
Speaker 3: Yeah.
23:14
Speaker 1: And what I have accomplished?
23:16
Speaker 3: Yeah.
23:16
Speaker 1: And why in the world would you bring this thing up?
23:18
Speaker 1: And why would you say it with so much, you know, passion?
23:21
Speaker 2: Yeah.
23:21
Speaker 3: And I do feel like 99%, if not, maybe 100%
23:24
Speaker 3: are not about the thing that's brought up, but it's
23:30
Speaker 3: underlying how....
23:33
Speaker 2: It's making me feel, or.
23:35
Speaker 3: You know, it just needed, if I was already kind
23:38
Speaker 3: of like on my last nerve or at my wit's end,
23:41
Speaker 3: or felt like I can't, like I'm doing everything, like
23:44
Speaker 3: just like right on the edge of holding everything together.
23:48
Speaker 3: And you just did one little boop. That was it
23:52
Speaker 3: that you.
23:53
Speaker 2: Kind of caught.
23:55
Speaker 1: And then you'd start, you would start again, turning around. Well,
23:58
Speaker 1: you didn't do this or you, but boy, you've been
24:00
Speaker 1: saying this and you were so good at pulling things
24:02
Speaker 1: out that, that I had said I wanted to do,
24:05
Speaker 1: but didn't do, or boy, you were really good at
24:07
Speaker 1: starting that, but didn't finish that or whatever. And now
24:10
Speaker 1: I'm getting defensive and here we go. And we're talking
24:13
Speaker 1: about something totally instead of like, Hey, we could team
24:16
Speaker 1: up and get excited about spring cleaning on this, this,
24:19
Speaker 1: you know, crap pile over here in the corner. Uh,
24:22
Speaker 1: so it's, when, when it's a task oriented thing, maybe it's,
24:26
Speaker 1: I don't feel appreciated. And I remember when, when it
24:29
Speaker 1: was about the money, you know, financial thing, we've told
24:33
Speaker 1: that story before where we were talking about retiring debt
24:36
Speaker 1: and you come in with the idea of wanting to
24:37
Speaker 1: go to Frisco, Colorado with your family. And I'm thinking,
24:40
Speaker 1: are you insane? Is that in the look on my face?
24:44
Speaker 1: That's the stupidest suggestion instead of, no, I'd love to go,
24:47
Speaker 1: you know, but Remember, we pulled out the budget and
24:51
Speaker 1: we talked about being out of debt in six months
24:53
Speaker 1: if we stuck to this budget. So the passion under
24:58
Speaker 1: that was insecurity about the money. It was me feeling lack, scarcity,
25:03
Speaker 1: not abundance. And that's a whole nother topic as far
25:07
Speaker 1: as that scarcity and abundance mindset on everything, not just
25:10
Speaker 1: on finances. But I didn't feel secure in our money.
25:14
Speaker 1: And so I remember getting you know, on to the boys,
25:19
Speaker 1: you know, when they were acting the fool, you know,
25:21
Speaker 1: but they're just being boys, but it was the anger
25:24
Speaker 1: that would come up when I felt like they were
25:27
Speaker 1: breaking something or destroying property that I didn't have the
25:31
Speaker 1: money to replace. And so instead of looking in and saying, man, okay,
25:35
Speaker 1: they need to be disciplined, right? They need to learn
25:37
Speaker 1: responsibility and to take care of stuff and, you know,
25:40
Speaker 1: not to hurt, you know, property, but It needs to
25:43
Speaker 1: be appropriate. And I need to realize what's going on
25:46
Speaker 1: in me. What's underneath that anger is fear of lack.
25:51
Speaker 1: And so that, I mean, there it is. So it's
25:54
Speaker 1: never about the argument. It's about the thing under the thing.
25:57
Speaker 1: And we've talked, we've talked about this a lot, but
25:59
Speaker 1: that's why you have these same things going on over
26:02
Speaker 1: and over. And if you can somehow stop and see, okay, wait,
26:06
Speaker 1: what's coming up in me is I'm not feeling secure
26:09
Speaker 1: in our finances. Sweetheart, I've got Like, I'm worried about that.
26:13
Speaker 1: But a man doesn't want to say, I'm worried. No,
26:14
Speaker 1: I got this. But if you'll, dang it, if you'll
26:16
Speaker 1: just fall in line, well, then all of a sudden
26:18
Speaker 1: you become this controlling parent. It's like a parent and child.
26:22
Speaker 1: It's like you've said before, you felt like you were
26:24
Speaker 1: in trouble.
26:26
Speaker 3: And if you think about it, I didn't get in
26:29
Speaker 3: trouble a ton when I was a kid because truly
26:32
Speaker 3: I was a really pretty good kid.
26:35
Speaker 1: Of course.
26:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, well.
26:38
Speaker 3: Ms.
26:38
Speaker 1: Perfect.
26:40
Speaker 3: But whenever I, like, I didn't ever have to get
26:44
Speaker 3: in big trouble. Right. Because my dad would just barely
26:47
Speaker 3: have to look at me a certain way, just a
26:49
Speaker 3: little side eye.
26:50
Speaker 2: You did not want to disappoint him.
26:51
Speaker 3: Oh, it just crushed me. So my go-to would just
26:55
Speaker 3: like run away and cry, you know. And so I
26:59
Speaker 3: didn't really get mad a lot. I just, like, it
27:01
Speaker 3: broke my heart because I felt like I had disappointed him. Well,
27:04
Speaker 3: there are times where, like you said, there's this father-daughter
27:10
Speaker 3: kind of thing that's set up in marriage where it's
27:14
Speaker 3: like parent-child, like you talked about, and where I felt
27:17
Speaker 3: like I disappointed you. But it's different because you're not
27:21
Speaker 3: my dad, so I would not talk back to him.
27:24
Speaker 2: I mean, that didn't really happen.
27:26
Speaker 3: But with you, I would feel like we would start,
27:31
Speaker 3: you know, I'd feel like I disappointed you. But then
27:33
Speaker 3: I would become defensive and you would say something else.
27:36
Speaker 3: And it just escalates just to where it goes through
27:41
Speaker 3: the roof. And we actually could not, if you held
27:45
Speaker 3: a gun to our heads, tell you how the argument started.
27:50
Speaker 3: We couldn't go back to the beginning if we tried
27:53
Speaker 3: because we had gone so far down this stupid path.
27:57
Speaker 2: Rabbit trail and I'd say it's.
27:58
Speaker 1: The kitchen sink you've thrown in everything it's like now
28:01
Speaker 1: you're just going I'm like your intent is to hurt
28:04
Speaker 1: like I want to hurt you because you've hurt me
28:06
Speaker 1: yeah and many times that's where people like it escalates
28:10
Speaker 1: to the point where they're really like slamming doors calling
28:13
Speaker 1: names and sleeping in separate bedrooms because you've thrown in
28:17
Speaker 1: all this stuff so if you could even just stick
28:19
Speaker 1: to the one thing but but again the one thing
28:23
Speaker 1: is there's usually something underneath and if we can learn
28:27
Speaker 1: That was the challenge last week with the sex. So
28:29
Speaker 1: with tasks, it's I don't feel appreciated. Maybe with money,
28:32
Speaker 1: it's I don't feel secure. But with like in the
28:34
Speaker 1: sexual arena, it's I don't feel desired many times. And
28:38
Speaker 1: so we talked about just sharing vulnerable, you know, I
28:42
Speaker 1: feel desired when you do this. I feel like this
28:45
Speaker 1: turns me on. I feel in the mood when you
28:48
Speaker 1: do this. But sometimes it's telling when, you know, I
28:52
Speaker 1: don't feel desired.
28:53
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
28:53
Speaker 1: I just feel like, is this... But instead of saying that,
28:58
Speaker 1: you take a pot shot. Instead of saying, hey, I
29:02
Speaker 1: miss you and I'd like to spend some time with you,
29:04
Speaker 1: I'm feeling ignored. You'll say, get off your damn phone.
29:07
Speaker 1: you know, always on that stupid phone. Well, then that's
29:09
Speaker 1: going to, Hey dude, I'm doing work or I've got
29:12
Speaker 1: to finish this up. And then it's like, well, Hey,
29:14
Speaker 1: well you're on your phone. I mean, again, instead of
29:17
Speaker 1: just saying, cause we are, and that's going to go
29:20
Speaker 1: tit for tat and that's going to go through the roof. It's,
29:24
Speaker 1: you have to stop and say, Hey, here's what's really running.
29:28
Speaker 1: And so, uh, I think one of the things that
29:32
Speaker 1: you and I have done, to avoid the kitchen sink
29:37
Speaker 1: is stop and ask, not just what are we fighting about,
29:42
Speaker 1: but here's what I'm feeling. We've talked about this thinker
29:45
Speaker 1: sink where you walk away.
29:47
Speaker 2: Unplug.
29:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead and talk about that.
29:50
Speaker 3: So yeah, a really important kind of tactic or tool
29:56
Speaker 3: when you're in the middle of Well, actually, before you
29:59
Speaker 3: get into the middle of World War III is where
30:03
Speaker 3: it's called think or sink. And you, first of all,
30:07
Speaker 3: have to have the maturity to be able to say, hey,
30:12
Speaker 3: let's press pause for a quick second. And that takes
30:16
Speaker 3: so much goodness, fortitude. I mean, everything in you for
30:23
Speaker 3: you both to be mature enough to say, hey, Man,
30:27
Speaker 3: this is going all kinds of ways downhill. And before
30:32
Speaker 3: we say something that we don't mean, say something that
30:36
Speaker 3: we don't want to say, that we can't take back,
30:39
Speaker 3: let's press pause for a second and let's unplug. Right
30:44
Speaker 3: now we're plugged into each other and it's like crazy,
30:47
Speaker 3: you know, dynamite, not in a good way. And so
30:52
Speaker 3: let's pause. Let's agree to both unplug. Let's go spend
30:58
Speaker 3: some time apart. Yours may be out on the mower.
31:02
Speaker 3: Mine might be just sitting outside in the sunshine or whatever,
31:06
Speaker 3: wherever your place is and have an agreement that you're
31:09
Speaker 3: going to come back together. And it's not like, you know, well,
31:14
Speaker 3: screw you, screw you, slam, slam. And I don't know,
31:18
Speaker 3: where'd you go in your car? You know, like you
31:21
Speaker 3: just leave like not like the olden days where we
31:23
Speaker 3: get in a huge fight and And you're like, well,
31:26
Speaker 3: I guess I don't know what's going to happen from that.
31:28
Speaker 3: But it's a mature, wise way to be able to say, hey,
31:34
Speaker 3: we're going to stop. We're going to unplug. Let's spend,
31:38
Speaker 3: I don't know, 30 minutes, an hour, whatever. Let's meet
31:41
Speaker 3: back at 2 o'clock or whatever. You know, if it's
31:44
Speaker 3: after dinner and we put the kids to bed, let's
31:47
Speaker 3: plan a time to come back together. And so you
31:50
Speaker 3: talk about what happens during that unplug time.
31:54
Speaker 1: Well, so ideally you pray, you know, if you believe
31:58
Speaker 1: that there's someone who's going to, uh, who already lives
32:01
Speaker 1: inside of you, the Holy Spirit, and he can counsel
32:04
Speaker 1: you and give you like the truth, which will set
32:07
Speaker 1: you free. It's like, what, what was I believing? You know,
32:10
Speaker 1: we say beliefs drive everything in a relationship. And what
32:13
Speaker 1: was I believing about that? Here's what I was believing.
32:16
Speaker 1: And so here's how I was feeling based on that belief.
32:19
Speaker 1: And then of course, here's what I was, how I
32:22
Speaker 1: was showing up. Here's how I was acting. And so
32:25
Speaker 1: it's coming back and saying, hey, sweetheart, here's what I
32:27
Speaker 1: was believing. And you may look with total surprise that
32:30
Speaker 1: you believe that. No wonder. And it opens, when you
32:33
Speaker 1: tell me that, it opens my heart of compassion. Well,
32:36
Speaker 1: of course, you felt that way. And of course, you
32:39
Speaker 1: started acting that way. You responded that way in defensiveness.
32:42
Speaker 1: You felt attacked or you felt underappreciated. You felt disrespected.
32:46
Speaker 1: And it's just so, so good. But it goes back
32:51
Speaker 1: to what's really... What are you feeling? And what made
32:58
Speaker 1: you feel that way? It's probably a faulty belief. So
33:01
Speaker 1: hopefully you can get the truth and you come back
33:04
Speaker 1: and you share that. And we always set the time
33:06
Speaker 1: now and say we are going to come back together.
33:08
Speaker 1: Not just, well... We're cooled down and just let it
33:11
Speaker 1: go because then it's unresolved and you think it's just
33:13
Speaker 1: going to come up again. Right?
33:15
Speaker 3: Right. And part of that is when you talk about
33:19
Speaker 3: cooling down, a time to cool down, what's really happening
33:26
Speaker 3: physically and physiologically in you is your nervous system is
33:32
Speaker 3: on tilt.
33:33
Speaker 2: When you feel like you're being attacked.
33:36
Speaker 3: Or you feel like you're in this defensive posture, you're
33:41
Speaker 3: not on the same team. You are in fight mode.
33:45
Speaker 1: Blood pressures up, heartbeat, cortisol, adrenaline. Adrenaline for men, especially
33:50
Speaker 1: men on high alert.
33:52
Speaker 3: And so things are going to come out of you
33:55
Speaker 3: where you've got... You're in a very defensive posture.
34:01
Speaker 2: You're being.
34:02
Speaker 3: And a lot of times, immature and unreasonable, things are
34:07
Speaker 3: going to come out of you that are rude and
34:11
Speaker 3: hateful and are only going to drive a wedge further.
34:15
Speaker 3: So it really is helpful to do the unplugging and
34:20
Speaker 3: to first just let your nervous system begin. You know,
34:23
Speaker 3: you're so dysregulated, you're out of control. So just like, okay,
34:28
Speaker 3: you go to your corner, you go to your corner.
34:31
Speaker 3: And just let your nervous system settle. And like you said,
34:35
Speaker 3: it's a beautiful thing that you give your body time
34:39
Speaker 3: to settle down before you come back. So it can't
34:43
Speaker 3: really be like five minutes. You're going to need some
34:46
Speaker 3: time to really process and to say, what is really
34:50
Speaker 3: happening below the surface? Why am I so triggered? Why
34:55
Speaker 3: am I so emotional about this? Why does this get
34:59
Speaker 3: me going so much? And that takes really some time,
35:04
Speaker 3: some quiet time to kind of bring you back to
35:08
Speaker 3: where you can, you know, and then it's coming back together.
35:11
Speaker 3: And even if you don't completely feel it, act as if, okay,
35:19
Speaker 3: we're on the same team or I want to be
35:21
Speaker 3: on the same team. I trust you or I want
35:25
Speaker 3: to trust you. I want to believe that you have
35:28
Speaker 3: my best in your heart, you know, that you're not
35:32
Speaker 3: just trying to destroy me and take me down. Anyway,
35:37
Speaker 3: it's a really powerful tool.
35:40
Speaker 1: One of the recurring arguments that's caused a lot of
35:45
Speaker 1: fights in our 37 years was the amount of time
35:51
Speaker 1: we spend doing stuff, so our schedule. And you're introverted. Sorry,
35:57
Speaker 1: I'm introverted, you're extroverted. And as we all know, And,
36:02
Speaker 1: you know, we've talked even recently about me playing the extrovert,
36:05
Speaker 1: you know, going to do these weddings and being around people, which, yeah,
36:10
Speaker 1: I can do. And we enjoy and we see the
36:13
Speaker 1: fruit of plugging in and engaging with people and what
36:16
Speaker 1: all can come from those. And I talked about being
36:19
Speaker 1: more present in those moments and loving that. But there
36:22
Speaker 1: is just something that happens in me as an introvert.
36:25
Speaker 1: It's draining me. And so in the, I would say,
36:29
Speaker 1: old days, We would fight about this all the time
36:33
Speaker 1: because I would start to resent you because I think
36:36
Speaker 1: you love this. You love, and if there's any empty
36:38
Speaker 1: space on our calendar, instead of seeing it as margin,
36:41
Speaker 1: and hey, that's good. That'll give us time to recover
36:45
Speaker 1: between events. You're like, ooh, there's a blank spot. Let's
36:47
Speaker 1: fill it. And then I would resent, like, man, dude,
36:51
Speaker 1: you're crazy. That's too much. And so I would, and
36:54
Speaker 1: I would blame you for just running crazy all the time. Mm-hmm. But,
36:59
Speaker 1: and you would blame, well, hey, well, I say no
37:01
Speaker 1: a lot. And I don't even tell you about all
37:02
Speaker 1: the invitations we have. And then we're fighting about now
37:05
Speaker 1: the number of things. And then we start to compare. Well,
37:08
Speaker 1: and you'll go through the nights. Well, we didn't do
37:10
Speaker 1: anything Thursday night. We didn't. And I'm like, well, good.
37:12
Speaker 1: We had a, so, but that was the common. And
37:15
Speaker 1: we just, we're off to the races because you're feeling attacked. You're,
37:20
Speaker 1: you know, I'm thinking you're crazy. You're thinking, well, you
37:22
Speaker 1: just are selfish and just want to be home. And
37:26
Speaker 1: so I feel like, Just something recently happened, and I'll
37:30
Speaker 1: just share this. So we had gone, I mean, literally
37:34
Speaker 1: had five weddings in September and loved every second of
37:39
Speaker 1: doing the weddings. But when you're doing rehearsals and rehearsal
37:42
Speaker 1: dinners and weddings, and then you're flying off to Georgia,
37:45
Speaker 1: and then you come back and there's a new grandbaby,
37:48
Speaker 1: and then we have an event on a Wednesday, and
37:50
Speaker 1: then we're keeping the kids when there's no breaks. Instead.
37:56
Speaker 1: And so this, this last time when I was hitting
37:59
Speaker 1: a wall, like physiologically, I started to feel my body
38:03
Speaker 1: and started like realizing, man, I'm getting irritable. I'm about
38:07
Speaker 1: to explode. And then I started really noticing like, this
38:11
Speaker 1: has got me like I, I, something's like about to
38:15
Speaker 1: go haywire with me. And instead of attacking you, And
38:21
Speaker 1: it started to come on, this attack of, man, we
38:25
Speaker 1: are just going crazy. We need to scale back. We
38:28
Speaker 1: need to say no. I just started saying, you know,
38:31
Speaker 1: I checked in with myself. And you remember the conversation,
38:36
Speaker 1: I'm sure, and I would love to hear your thoughts
38:38
Speaker 1: on this. Because the way it felt to me was,
38:41
Speaker 1: I was saying, so two things, babe. I can only
38:45
Speaker 1: handle so much, and I need to withdraw. Like, I
38:48
Speaker 1: need to pull away.
38:49
Speaker 3: And....
38:51
Speaker 1: So there was part of that that was, I think,
38:53
Speaker 1: just you need to do this or somebody's going to
38:55
Speaker 1: get hurt. Like I'm going to say something I don't
38:59
Speaker 1: mean or do something. But the other part is instead
39:03
Speaker 1: of us getting into a fight and now I'm going
39:05
Speaker 1: to be defensive and I'm going to prove how crazy
39:07
Speaker 1: this schedule is, when you gave me the space to
39:10
Speaker 1: come to you about it, and I saw, it's like
39:13
Speaker 1: I knew at the end of this, kind of this
39:15
Speaker 1: last little bit of just craziness, I could tell I
39:19
Speaker 1: was making it no fun for you Or at least
39:22
Speaker 1: that's what I was thinking. Because it was no fun
39:24
Speaker 1: for me. I was thinking I literally, and before I
39:27
Speaker 1: wouldn't have done this. I just would have probably made
39:29
Speaker 1: your life. miserable, my life miserable and everyone around me.
39:32
Speaker 1: But I started thinking it's okay if I need to
39:35
Speaker 1: just withdraw, go back to a bedroom, get a book,
39:38
Speaker 1: go outside, go for a walk or whatever. But then
39:42
Speaker 1: when you gave me the space to start talking about it,
39:44
Speaker 1: I also was able to admit, you There's a part
39:48
Speaker 1: of me that's just, there's no other way to slice it.
39:50
Speaker 1: When I started hearing the words come out of my mouth,
39:53
Speaker 1: it's just, you know what? I'm kind of being selfish.
39:57
Speaker 1: And so that was good for me. That was really
40:00
Speaker 1: good because there's part of it that's like, okay, this
40:02
Speaker 1: is a physiological thing. I'm wired this way and there's
40:05
Speaker 1: no getting around it. My little OCD and my introvert
40:09
Speaker 1: and blah, blah, blah. But there's also a part that
40:11
Speaker 1: was going, you know, dude, look at her. And yes,
40:16
Speaker 1: she maybe doesn't even notice it because she's extroverted. And
40:19
Speaker 1: she grew up in this and she loves it like this.
40:22
Speaker 1: But also you're working your tail off. And just in
40:25
Speaker 1: the moment of you giving me space to kind of
40:28
Speaker 1: come to this and come to you with all that,
40:31
Speaker 1: I noticed, A, I'm selfish, which we know I'm more
40:34
Speaker 1: selfish than you. I wrote about it in the book.
40:36
Speaker 1: But also I was able to just appreciate you and go, damn, man.
40:41
Speaker 1: It's not like you were having any time off. You
40:44
Speaker 1: were working your freaking tail off every second and doing
40:48
Speaker 1: it with no grumbling and no complaining. And it was good.
40:54
Speaker 1: And I literally, I feel like just getting that off.
40:57
Speaker 1: So we didn't have World War III. We didn't have
41:00
Speaker 1: the argument for the 47th time. I woke up in
41:04
Speaker 1: a totally different mood today, like a totally different place.
41:09
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did feel like it was
41:11
Speaker 3: a much healthier talk and I could tell that it
41:15
Speaker 3: could have turned.
41:16
Speaker 1: Towards, cause I think what, once I get going, I
41:19
Speaker 1: get worked up.
41:20
Speaker 3: And, and what, what kind of, uh, has been hard
41:24
Speaker 3: for me through the years is when I feel like
41:26
Speaker 3: it's a direct hit to me, like I did it,
41:30
Speaker 3: like it's my fault. And I, I'm like, well, I
41:33
Speaker 3: didn't plan all these weddings. And we got to go
41:37
Speaker 3: to Atlanta on this really cool retreat. Remember how amazing
41:42
Speaker 3: that was? Inside, I'm like, well, I didn't plan all
41:47
Speaker 3: of this. It just all kind of collided at the
41:50
Speaker 3: same time. And so what I've been more able to
41:58
Speaker 3: do is go, okay, he's frustrated now. some of this
42:02
Speaker 3: is coming out towards me.
42:03
Speaker 2: This is before.
42:04
Speaker 3: Okay.
42:04
Speaker 2: This is not this conversation. This is before.
42:07
Speaker 3: And just try to separate, like, that's not about me. That's,
42:11
Speaker 3: that's his, his stuff, you know, coming out. I'm just
42:15
Speaker 3: going to like, what's this going to hurt me? I
42:17
Speaker 3: know my heart. I know my identity. And it doesn't
42:21
Speaker 3: come from what Brian says I am or am not,
42:24
Speaker 3: you know, whatever, you know, arrows kind of shoot my way.
42:27
Speaker 3: I'm able to just kind of, see it more for
42:30
Speaker 3: what it's worth. But what I will say is, so
42:34
Speaker 3: I can tell a huge difference, like just this talk
42:38
Speaker 3: that you're talking about, that you were more able to
42:43
Speaker 3: just regulate yourself in the moment and make it where
42:47
Speaker 3: it wasn't like some kind of arrow shooting towards me
42:51
Speaker 3: that I had to be even defensive about, you know.
42:54
Speaker 3: And I am able to see it more and more
42:58
Speaker 3: as we are two very different people. You know, I
43:03
Speaker 3: run at a different speed than you do. Um, but
43:06
Speaker 3: in other things you run at a different speed than me,
43:09
Speaker 3: you know, I'm like, man, he's a wild man. Um,
43:12
Speaker 3: but it's, it's just, it's different. We just run at different,
43:16
Speaker 3: different speeds about different things.
43:17
Speaker 1: And so a lot of times has to do with
43:20
Speaker 1: how many people are around.
43:22
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And so now like what, what I have
43:26
Speaker 3: tried to do too is to, to kind of even
43:29
Speaker 3: before the thing can set in, just say, hey, let
43:32
Speaker 3: me take this. Like, let me take this stress from you.
43:35
Speaker 3: Let me say we can't make it to this. Or
43:40
Speaker 3: let me say I'm going to come to this and
43:42
Speaker 3: Brian's not able to make it. Or let me, whatever
43:46
Speaker 3: it is, I can see ahead that that's going to
43:49
Speaker 3: be stressful for you. What can I do to remove that?
43:54
Speaker 3: That's that stress.
43:56
Speaker 1: Just hearing that, what you just said, instead of like, well,
43:58
Speaker 1: you do you boo, and I'm going to do me
44:00
Speaker 1: and this kind of separateness and disconnect and everybody's doing
44:04
Speaker 1: their own thing. I feel like you're saying I'm going
44:06
Speaker 1: to be a buffer because we're a team. He's different
44:09
Speaker 1: than me and I'm going to buffer. And I try
44:11
Speaker 1: to buffer on that when I think, you know what,
44:13
Speaker 1: we're a team and I want to give because she
44:15
Speaker 1: wants me there, you know, and she wants me to
44:18
Speaker 1: be a part of this and not miss this thing
44:20
Speaker 1: or whatever. But I guess what I love is we're
44:23
Speaker 1: getting under the thing and instead of it being an argument,
44:27
Speaker 1: like what are we arguing about and who's right? It's
44:31
Speaker 1: about here's the way I'm feeling right now. And I
44:35
Speaker 1: think there's one, here's the challenge we want to leave
44:37
Speaker 1: couples with this week. When you find yourself going around
44:42
Speaker 1: the freaking mulberry bush over and over, like here we go,
44:46
Speaker 1: here we go. Just stop. And think, what is it
44:51
Speaker 1: that I'm feeling right now? What is it? And can
44:53
Speaker 1: I articulate that in a way that's not blaming? It's
44:58
Speaker 1: not shaming. It's not accusing. It's not attacking. It's something
45:01
Speaker 1: that you're feeling. And then if you can find it
45:04
Speaker 1: in yourself when the other person is trying to tell
45:07
Speaker 1: you how they feel, ask one question. Ask, what do
45:11
Speaker 1: you need from me right now? What do you need
45:14
Speaker 1: from me right now? And then the answer from the
45:16
Speaker 1: spouse can't be, I need you to shut up. That
45:19
Speaker 1: can't be the answer. It's like, what do you need
45:22
Speaker 1: from me right now? Because you're saying, look, I understand
45:26
Speaker 1: we're different, and I know we're not on the same page.
45:28
Speaker 1: Is there something I can do for you right now? Like,
45:31
Speaker 1: what do you need from me right now? And then
45:35
Speaker 1: that's going to be on the person who can, again,
45:39
Speaker 1: find it in themselves to ask the question, but also
45:43
Speaker 1: to receive that with grace.
45:44
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
45:45
Speaker 1: And instead of being childish, try to be really, really
45:50
Speaker 1: mature in the answer to that question. Say, okay, what
45:53
Speaker 1: do I need? And then let them meet that need.
45:55
Speaker 3: Yeah. Those are two great questions. And I think as
46:00
Speaker 3: you get better and better at this, you exercise that
46:06
Speaker 3: muscle like we talk about sometimes, you will find yourself
46:09
Speaker 3: probably less and less having to do the unplugging and
46:13
Speaker 3: going away like You know, sometimes when it's a biggie, yes.
46:17
Speaker 3: But sometimes in that very moment, like, you know, when
46:20
Speaker 3: the Bible talks about taking thoughts captive, you can do
46:25
Speaker 3: it like on the fly, like right when it's like
46:28
Speaker 3: right on the edge of the argument, you know, not
46:32
Speaker 3: like going over the falls like you were talking about
46:34
Speaker 3: and like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we got to go unplug.
46:36
Speaker 3: Sometimes in that very moment, you can say, okay, wait, stop.
46:40
Speaker 3: I'm about to go to a bad place in my mind.
46:43
Speaker 3: I'm believing that Brian... is believing the worst in me.
46:47
Speaker 3: And man, just switch it. Just flip that switch and
46:50
Speaker 3: on the fly go, you know what? He believes the
46:53
Speaker 3: best in me. And okay, this is going somewhere I
46:55
Speaker 3: don't want it to go. And think underneath the surface,
46:59
Speaker 3: what is this really about? What are we really fighting about?
47:03
Speaker 3: What's the underlying issue? And you can do it right
47:06
Speaker 3: there in the moment. When you get really good at it,
47:09
Speaker 3: you don't really have to do as many of the, well,
47:12
Speaker 3: let's unplug and go away for two hours and come
47:15
Speaker 3: back you really can begin to just do it before
47:19
Speaker 3: you know you kind of stop it's like preventative measures
47:23
Speaker 3: so what are we really fighting about and then what
47:26
Speaker 3: do you need from me right now I think those
47:28
Speaker 3: are two really great questions okay not what we used
47:32
Speaker 3: to do who's right who's wrong you know and that's
47:35
Speaker 3: all we're doing is we're just fighting.
47:36
Speaker 1: For our right yeah yeah okay well that's good and
47:41
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask just a little change of subject
47:43
Speaker 1: real quick you You love it.
47:46
Speaker 2: Here we go.
47:47
Speaker 1: You can see it coming a mile away. Go ahead. Babe,
47:51
Speaker 1: in other days, like, man, oh, Sean, I can see
47:54
Speaker 1: your bike coming from around the corner. I see you. No,
47:58
Speaker 1: there's a certain kind of like potato chips that you really,
48:03
Speaker 1: really love.
48:03
Speaker 2: Right?
48:05
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah.
48:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh-huh.
48:08
Speaker 1: Salt and vinegar, right?
48:09
Speaker 3: Oh, yes.
48:10
Speaker 2: I do love those.
48:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's a certain kind of salt. Do you
48:13
Speaker 1: remember what that is that you.
48:14
Speaker 3: Really, really like?
48:15
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. I do love it. It's called sea salt.
48:20
Speaker 1: See ya. Thank you.