Latest / The Modern Hotelier / #318: From On-Property to Expedia to Hotel Technology | with Nick Farrell
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- The Modern Hotelier #318: From On-Property to Expedia to Hotel Technology | with Nick Farrell === David Millili: Welcome to The Modern Hotelier, the most engaged podcast in hospitality. Please make sure to follow, like, subscribe, and let us know in the comments what you think about today's episode. I'm here with Nick Farrell, the senior vice president and head of sales for Phunware. Thanks for joining us. Nick Farrell: Thanks for having me. I'm really excited. David Millili: So we're gonna jump into some lightning round questions. We're gonna get to know you better, get to know your career, and then dive into some thought leadership topics. Sound good? Nick Farrell: Sounds great. David Millili: All right, so when you were young, what did you want to be when you grew up? Nick Farrell: Air Force pilot. David Millili: Oh, nice. Nick Farrell: Top Gun was my movie, and I was so set on flying an F-16, and I, you know, wanted to go down that path. Obviously, it worked out a little bit different. Yeah. But I still have those moments being in San Antonio where you see them fly over the trainers, and I stop, and, you know, my wife gives me trash about it all the time because she's like, "Let's move." But I still get the goosebumps talking about, you know, Air Force and flying one of the fighter pilot planes. David Millili: That's cool. What's something that you wish you were better at? Nick Farrell: Oh, I wish I could control time. I know that's a little bit outside the scope of things you can actually do, but it's probably appreciating the moments more. Just such a high drive, high go that it takes a lot to, like, for me to say, "Oh, I need to slow down and just enjoy what I'm either working on or what I'm the experience I'm in." David Millili: Yeah, makes sense. So what's a luxury you can't live without? Nick Farrell: Bourbon. David Millili: Okay. Nick Farrell: Yeah, I don't even have to David Millili: ask. That was easy. Nick Farrell: Yeah, so I've built up a collection at home, and it started as one of those things during COVID where, you know, I enjoyed a, an old fashioned, and then it just became, all right, I got one bottle, and why is this different than the next? And there's so many different little distilleries coming up that I started collecting, and now I'm up to 170 bottles. David Millili: Wow. Nick Farrell: So it's, yeah, it's one of those nice to haves that David Millili: If you could take a person dead or alive to lunch, who would you take? Nick Farrell: You know, I think it'd be alive. I think, you know, and I don't want to go political here, but I, I, like, I'd love to have some time with a number of presidents. So Obama would probably be the living one. I think he just faced a lot of unique challenges, a lot of firsts, you know, in the, in the world, in the US, in our history of politics, and so I'd love to just see how they operate because the immense pressure that they bear, the strategy that has to go into it, working with both sides of the aisle, like, I'd love to pick someone like that's brain for, you know, 30 minutes. David Millili: Absolutely. Nick Farrell: I'd love to go down that route. David Millili: All right. So if you could have a superpower, what superpower would you like to have? Nick Farrell: Reading minds. David Millili: That's a good one. Nick Farrell: My wife can do it to me. So I'd, I... But I'd love to have that ability. I mean, you're in hospitality long enough and you, you know, you see the, the, the interactions, and you can kind of see where people get excited. But I think having that, that ultimate, you know, like, "Hey, w- what, what's the thing we're both working at?" 'Cause sometimes people can be guarded with it. David Millili: Yeah. Nick Farrell: Not even from a work aspect, but just, you know, having an interaction with somebody. I think having that insight would be a really cool superpower. David Millili: All right, last one in this section. What's on your... Give us something that's on your bucket list. Nick Farrell: It's travel. David Millili: Right ... Nick Farrell: you know, I have two small kids, and so we've, our travel has been select. David Millili: Right. Nick Farrell: But in the last couple years we've expanded, so the next place on the bucket list is Egypt. David Millili: Okay. Nick Farrell: And then tacking on some kind of safari trip to it. But yeah, I think for me it's I've gotten to this point where it's, it's all about the experience. David Millili: All right, so now we're gonna dive into your background. So where did you grow up? Nick Farrell: I grew up in San Antonio. David Millili: Okay. Nick Farrell: But I spent a large portion of, you know, that high school, college, post college era in the Chicago suburbs. David Millili: So how did growing up in San Antonio and then, you know, spending college years in Chicago, how did that kind of shape you into who you are today? Nick Farrell: I think from an hospitality aspect, like, San Antonio is where you wanna be. It's such a tight knit community, and it's growing, but it's still one of those things that everybody knows somebody. And the way that people take care of each other, that's always been my dream of that, that white picket fence. Right. It's been in the suburbs of San Antonio. So it was kind of appreciate the small moments, everyone's interconnected. You know, you build relationships. And then getting up to Chicago definitely taught me, like, speed. Right. Speed won, you know, early career 90% of the time. First to respond to something, first to do something. Being on the go, I definitely appreciate that, and it's definitely works with my ADD, as I need to be on the go or on the move, working on or thinking about something. So it was, it was kind of two different aspects, and then ultimately it was about getting back to, you know, where's, where's home? Where's comfortable? David Millili: Oh, yeah. When you, when you come from the suburbs and you go into those big cities, you realize how the pace is a lot different. Oh, yeah. It's like minor league stuff, major league stuff. Nick Farrell: Exactly. David Millili: All right. So you got your degree from Northern Illinois University in marketing. What made you decide to go there and, and major in marketing? Nick Farrell: Football David Millili: Okay ... Nick Farrell: was why I ended up there. I've had four knee surgeries, so that was, uh, a little cut short, but, you know, I've, I've High school, one of the jobs that I had before I got into hospitality was GNC sales. Right. And I loved it, but it wasn't the pushy sales type. It was... I had a medical dictionary behind the, the counter. Like, "Why do people buy this?" You know, "What's this ingredient? What's this version of creatine or protein" Right ... "vs this other one?" And so it became clear to me, like, I love solutioning, and, you know, helping you get to where you wanna go. So sales for me has always been kinda like that natural first step. And, you know, I just love being around people. So it was, foundationally, it was the right path to go down. David Millili: You have a YouTube channel that focuses on investing and generational wealth. Nick Farrell: You guys found that. David Millili: And how did you get into investing, and any hot stocks you'd suggest to the listeners? Nick Farrell: Yeah, hot stocks. Well, all right. So the, the investing part, and the... You know, when we talked about superpowers earlier Right ... this is one. My, my son has ADD too, the, the focus kind. And it, it's a realm I know too well. And so for me, always having something to look at and think, and analytically kind of, you know, pressure test and test it out, that was the market for me. And so I really got into investing heavy, about 2017, 2018. And it was really 'cause when I joined Expedia, that was part of their, their comp package. And so it just started getting interesting for me. And then you learn the technical analysis piece, and it's like, it's, it's not necessarily knowing the company's financials, it's, you know, looking at trend patterns, the different supporting pieces of evidence. But, you know, as I've progressed, you know, you finally hit that profitable point where you stop paying tuition, you know, to learn. But I got to the point where, you know, I had some friends and neighbors that were asking me, "How do you, how do you do this? How do I get started?" And so, I wanted to share that knowledge, 'cause it was one of those things that doesn't hurt me to, to share what I'm looking at. And if it can help one person make a little extra income or, you know, redirect how they're looking at their long term strategy, that was just something that was, really exciting. And it's taken a little bit of a backseat, 'cause it's, it's a huge time commitment. Like I said, I've got two, two kids running around, so they keep me plenty, plenty busy. But yeah, funny that you guys found that. David Millili: Well, I, I'll give Steve credit with that, 'cause he's the guy that does the research. So now we wanna talk about your career. So Like many of us in this industry, you began your hospitality career as a front office manager at the Sheridan Chicago Northwest. Then you moved into sales with Marriott, then the Emily Morgan Hotel in San Antonio. How did what you learned in those early hotel days stick with you today and kind of shape who you are? Nick Farrell: Yeah, I, I. So I, I got to tell you, the, the Sheridan one was kind of interesting because that was, you know, a part time job where this hotel had built a waterpark on. David Millili: Right. Nick Farrell: And they, they were like, "Oh, we need to solve for weekend revenue." Because midweek they were crushing it with business. And so I started there as a lifeguard and, my boss at the time, she had, noticed a lot of my guest interaction was, was like really high level and, and, you know, it was not just solutioning problems, but getting them to leave happy. So I had a personal vendetta against the, the. They're, they're upset, throw a free room night against them. Like, "No, I want to solve this problem." And then your kid's upset because now they have to wait to get in the waterpark. Here's an ice cream for your kid. And so that was like real hospitality for me. And so when they asked me to move over to the front office side, I got really excited. And this was working directly with guests. I started interacting with business transient travelers, learning more about like why did they choose this brand? Why did they come to the hotel? What do they do for work? And you build those relationships. And so for me it was like, all right, you know, I really love the sales side, which I found out at GNC, but it was. I love this hospitality side, taking care of somebody else. And then when they leave, you see your name in the guest reviews, you see the, the property getting highlighted. Even, you know, putting some of the other teams engineering or housekeeping in the limelight, that for me was like the, the greatest win. And so I still carry all that forward. So when I think, you know, working with a lot of these hotel and hospitality partners, it really comes down to like they, they love what they do, they're ingrained in it. I think I can make that broad statement. You, you know, you've been in hospitality too. But you're all anchored into the same thing, which is, you know, guest experience. So it all, it all ties back and it's just given me that platform and foundation where like I, I, I understand the guests, I understand what we're all working towards and all our functions in hospitality. So it's, it's, it's been amazing and it all anchors back to that switching from a lifeguard to a front desk worker. David Millili: Yeah. Used to love those comment cards. I used to love to say my name on those comment cards. Nick Farrell: Oh, yeah. David Millili: So we talked a little bit about this earlier, but you moved from the property to Expedia and you worked across market management, travel ads. What motivated the transition and what did Expedia teach you about distribution, digital marketing and how hotels compete for demand? Nick Farrell: Yeah. So that was a big jump. That was a scary jump. I remember making that move because at that time all I had done was hotels, like directly in the hotel. And so when I had made the change, you know, into market management, it was now thinking outside of just one property and how do you put more heads in beds? It was trying to think about an entire city or territory in, in that case. And I think what triggered the analytical part of my mind was, they each need a different strategy. Yeah. You know, so what I was using at like the Emily Morgan before I left Yeah ... it's 180 room property. But now going to Expedia, now I've got, you know, The Grand Hyatt who has 1,200 rooms. And so how they interact with these different tools, really showed me a different side of where I could tap into in my brain. But at the same time, I take the relationships that I had built with a lot of these hoteliers and, you know, shift it in a different dynamic, a better one that I really enjoyed. And I'd say the one thing that I really took away was, you know, this test and learn mindset. Becca Glenn, she was our director for our central region, and she always approached everything in this test and learn mindset, and it was, it's okay to fail. You know, hotels, you've got expiring product. If you don't move it, you miss out on that revenue. And so I've always had that kind of like, ugh, I gotta make this sale, I gotta do this, gotta do that. But when you get over to Expedia, it's like there is no one strategy that works for every hotelier. And so, you know, taking away from them, just being able to test with lots of different hotels, chains, management companies, that was a huge inflection point in my career, but it was also something that, you know, I was trying new things, building these relationships with the hotels where they'd let me do, you know, harebrained ideas. Right. So yeah, that was a big moment to jump to Expedia, and I learned a huge amount of information there. David Millili: You then entered hospitality technology with Avalara, before joining IDeaS where you earned President's Club honors. What made you interested in coming over to the tech side? Nick Farrell: Yeah. So it, Expedia kind of flirts with it, and they were constantly Right ... you know, in creating new ways for engagement. And again, that was only one segment of what a hotel looks at, which, you know, I was getting flack when I moved over. They were like, "Oh, you're going to the dark side." Yeah, David Millili: yeah. Nick Farrell: But truth is it's all part of an ecosystem to Right, yeah ... to find success. One of the strategies I was testing when I was at Expedia, involved using IDeaS platform. They had a heat map of your occupancy, and so when I was selling the ads, it was very kind of black and white, weekday versus weekend positioning. And one of the things that I would hear all the time is, "How do we get more tailored in our approach?" And you couldn't do it. Well, I found a way in the back end of the system to do it, but I needed to know where and when, the hotels wanted it, and they didn't have the time, and I didn't have the time to be sitting there asking them. And so one of them had pulled up their IDeaS system, and I was like, "Oh my God, this heat map like just visually speaks to me." And so I started creating these specialized ads, that... I mean, hotels were jumping from like 12 to one return to 32 to one. You know, that was, that was, my one of my great partners. And so I had a level of familiarity with IDeaS and an opportunity came open on their account management team and, you know, I went for it and I was like, "This is exciting. This is, you know, bleeding a little bit into the revenue side," which I hadn't played directly in. Yeah. You know, being sales, I had to work with revenue, on the hotels, but that was such a great experience because they... I mean, they touched on every part of what a hotel does, from marketing to, to revenue management, to, events and meetings. That it was a really cool opportunity and so it just kind of, you know, reinforced where my background is and it's like I know the hospitality space, I know a lot more now about the, the hospitality tech side of the space, and so it's, it's led me down this path, but yeah, I loved every minute of it. David Millili: Right. Well, that's great. And so you came to Phunware in July. How did that come about? What led you to Phunware? Nick Farrell: Yeah. So I had a... My old global VP from IDeaS Okay ... he's, he's now a CEO at, another company. You know, he had a recruiter reach out before he took that CEO role and, you know, he's like, "Hey, I'm off the market, but, you know, you gotta talk to my Yeah my good friend Nick." And so I started talking to them and, you know, Dima, who you had Yeah ... our CEO. Yeah, yeah. You had him on, one of the podcasts He was great ... not too long ago. Yeah. You know, him and I started talking and I'm, like, just in awe. His, his focus has, has been on this, product development side, and it's such a unique perspective where it's not build one and, you know, go to market. It's been build this ecosystem and move into this, guest intelligence side of the market that I think has largely been neglected. And so, you know, they had, had approached me about it, and I was kind of going through the process and, you know, I joked with my wife, told her, I was like, "Man, they gotta win me over." David Millili: Right. ' Nick Farrell: Cause I wasn't necessarily looking to, to make a change. But the more conversations I had, I was like, they have... He's got a great vision. The team that I met with were amazing, and they're building something really special, and so it was just... You know what I mean? Even, even my team from IDeaS was like, "If you don't take this, I'm gonna slap you." So I was like, "Message heard." David Millili: Yeah, nothing like a good threat to make you take a job. Nick Farrell: Exactly. David Millili: So those who aren't familiar with Phunware, let the audience know more about Phunware, what you guys actually do. Nick Farrell: Yeah. So historically, they've come from app, app technology. David Millili: Right. Nick Farrell: Over the last couple years, they, we've been shifting into this, you know, hospitality environment. And we, and we started with our core solution, which was around wayfinding. We've got a, a, a bevy of, clients that are using this, but it's beacon technology, and so you can open up the app and say, "How do I get from here to here?" And it walks you in real time. And once they started building that, they started having a vision of breaking deeper into the hospitality field, which wasn't their, their core. And so now that Deem is there, you know, they're looking at this holistically, as, you know, I mentioned earlier Yeah ... the guest intelligence side. And, you know, how do we connect with the users? How do you get the, the hotels to connect with the users more natively or Right ... naturally? You know, drive that ancillary revenue, increase that guest satisfaction, get them to rebook. But, you're creating that touch point that's, you know, before check in through checkout, which is something that I haven't seen, and it's something that I know a lot of hotels are trying to solve for. David Millili: It's been great getting to know you better, finding about your background, your career, so now we're gonna dive into some thought leadership industry topics. All right, so now the pressure's on. So traveler behavior can change quickly, and not every shift becomes a lasting trend. So really, how should hotels be looking at making meaningful changes versus just this temporary noise, and when do you feel there's enough evidence to actually act on those trends? Nick Farrell: It's a funny question, and, you know, it comes up a lot is, you know, how do you act on the trends? Right. When should you act? And you know, when I think back to even Expedia, you always, you were reusing data to say, "Hey, here's what the market's doing. Here's how you should apply the tools against it." And it, it for as evolving as the hospitality industry is, there's so much that just people do what they're gonna do. I think, you know, revenue management's a great example. Right. Yeah. Slow to adopt change because they're so used to manually manipulating numbers. Well, now you've got any number of revenue systems that can do that for you instantaneously and thousands of times a day. So I think for hotels, you know, the big thing that, you know, I saw a lot of traction with is that test and learn mentality. It's really who's gonna be the first to spot a trend and then test something out. And whether it works or not, it's gonna be the outcome that, that drives success for a property. And really, the properties that I think about that I know are the management groups, the ownership groups that make the most growth are the ones that are testing these new strategies, and they're the market innovators. So in that, in that bell curve, you know, those early adopters that are, that are getting the success. To your question on, you know, when do you implement? Right. When do you make a change? I don't think there's one answer that you can apply, but it's... I, if, if this AI boom has taught me anything, it's like, okay, when everybody starts talking about it or you start to see those enough proof points to start connecting dots, like that's the point where you should explore it. Maybe not go full, you know, full boat in and, you know, bet the farm on it, but, you know, some of these, you know, partners that I've worked with are so ahead of the game because they've been doing this for three, four years, and there's still a lot out there that they're like, "What can I use?" Or, you know, they think AI is ChatGPT. David Millili: Right. Nick Farrell: And it's like, eh, that's scratching the surface. David Millili: And so where do you think hotels are overlooking the biggest opportunities between check in and check out, and how is technology like itinerary building starting to capture those moments? Nick Farrell: That's, it's an interesting question because there's so much emphasis in silos Right on the guest journey. You know, sales is thinking about ahead of time, revenue's thinking about ahead of time, the GM's thinking about the operations of on property and then kind of an overarching approach. And so There's a huge opportunity to connect all of that, can make that all connective tissue that, that interacts with each other, and there's so much data in hospitality, that I, I think back to a study that Accenture did last year where AI is, has the most growth potential Right is in hospitality, where it's also the, the industry that's lagging behind the most. David Millili: Right. Nick Farrell: You know, it's not car sales where you're selling one truck and then it's, you know, five, eight years before you buy the next one. No, you've got guests that are booking hourly, daily, by the minute, and so you're collecting intel all the time. Where, you know, we come in and, you know, Itinerary Planner can really help out is, giving these guests, it, it's kind of a two front approach. So one, you can put this app in front of them, you can put this technology in front of them, and it's gonna allow them to explore the property in advance. So I'll give you great example. I stayed at Atlantis, as I was interviewing here and realized Yeah ... you know, hey, they, that's, they're using our technology. And I thought I knew what I wanted to do. Right. And I opened up the, you know, the app, and I'm looking at it, and I'm like, oh my God, there's 20 pages of, of things to do. How do I make sure I do all the right things? Where do I go? What do I, you know, how do I process this? And, you know, that, that's that moment where an itinerary planner, you start to select in, like, hey, I wanna do the dolphin experience on the first day. I wanna do, this beach on the second day. And you can start to plot these things out. That was a huge help for me because I stress with these family vacations. But, outside of that aspect for the hotel, if they can start to see what I'm doing and understand, you know, hey, we booked a, a two bedroom suite because I have two kids, and we're, we're gonna pay for this, dolphin experience and the sea lion experience. If they start to understand those things, you're grabbing more share of wallet. You know, I was telling a couple colleagues it kept me on property. And so where I may have gone off and explored more of The, The Bahamas, the local scenery, I had everything in front of me, and by the time I knew it, our trip was filled up, and Atlantis caught all of that revenue. So I see, I see a few opportunities there to really engage, and most importantly, and this, this is, this is 101 for hotels, take care of your guests And, this is giving them that chance to interact, plan things out, keep them on there. They're gonna get more intel in terms of where are the people spending their time, what are they focused on, and execute against that. And I think that's where AI can really help out, is understand your customers more, meet them where they're at, and tailor the approach to it. But I think this hits from, you know, a few different angles. David Millili: Yeah. Hotels are collecting an enormous amount of guest data, but much of it tells them what already happened. Walk us through how the platform like AI Concierge actually works, and what needs to change for the data to influence the guest experience while the guest is still on property. Nick Farrell: Yeah. You know, and this goes back to that Accenture study Right ... which was just like w we're fed so much data, and I don't think even some of the hotels really understand what they have at their fingertips. And it's, it's, it's more a matter of like, what do I do with it? Or what do I have and what can I do with it? So, you know, AI Concierge in that aspect, I, I mean, every but just about every company has some kind of AI Yes ... chatbot. And, you know, I'll use the example, a couple weeks ago I was flying and I had to make a connector that was, I was running late. And so I was, like, panicking looking at the app ... 'cause I'm getting the alerts, like Yeah ... you know, your flight's delayed, you might wanna rebook. And I was trying to figure out, like, where, what gate am I at? Can I make it in LAX? Can I run Right ... and make it? And, you know, I tried chatting with, the airline's, you know, chat feature, and it was giving me generic responses. Like, "Oh, I understand you're having issues with your flight. What would you like to do?" David Millili: Yeah, not helpful. Nick Farrell: It's like, "You can call this number." I'm like, great. I'm on a plane, I can't call you. David Millili: Yeah ... Nick Farrell: So when you, when you think about what our AI Concierge does, it's building off of, we call them the golden questions. Yeah. And so the hotels have that opportunity to go in there and help give us some of the data in their language. You know, if they're trying to use a specialized language that speaks to their experience, they can tailor this. And so, you know, and again, I go back to Atlantis, but in Atlantis' case, when I was using their chatbot, I would've never known it was AI. David Millili: Right. Nick Farrell: Because it was just talking to me so beautifully. And you know, I told it, "Hey, I don't have dinner plans tonight. I have two kids. They're both picky eaters. Here's a few foods they like." And the thing was talking back to me like, "Hey, I know that can be a difficult age." "Here's four restaurants that solution. Here's the two I think they'd like, and this one, you know, has a great ice cream bar right outside of it, so you're gonna have the, the best time here. Can I help you book the reservation?" And that to me was, like, mind blowing because it was taking, not just give me an answer, but, like, it tailored it to, to me, and then gave me a decisive next step to take. And so I, I, like, I think that's how you get that connective tissue going in the hotel. David Millili: So auxiliary revenue is often treated as upselling. How can hotels grow guest spend in ways that genuinely make the stay easier, more enjoyable? And how do partnerships and shared data between hotels and vendors make that possible? Nick Farrell: A lot of this is gonna come down to merchandising, and this is a hot topic right now with a lot of the, the partners that I would put in the bucket of innovation and think forward thinking. And we're gonna talk about this at the, the panel that I'm on tomorrow, so perfect timing. These hotels are asking in an environment where ADRs are staying flat, where or slight growth, but occupancy's also staying flat, you know, how do we capture more of the revenue? They're looking at the ways like how do we engage with the guests? How do we build the right packages that, that tailor to them? And I think that's a right first step. But when you again think about all the data that hotels have available to them, and you think about, all the things that you offer on your property that your guests may not know about unless they're repeat, there's such a huge potential here and that and, you know, that's, that's where we come in Right ... is we can get this in front of them ahead of time and allow them to build out their itinerary. Or when they get on property, ask the question, "What's something cool I can do?" Or, you know, "Where should I go for dinner?" And now it's opening up these opportunities. So I think there's a huge opportunity ahead of time to, to bundle things, to get different packages going. And even some of these, properties that I've talked to, you know, they're thinking about, "How do I partner with local things?" Yeah. "How do I partner with the DMOs?" But holistically, it's, it's you gotta put everything out there. These, these guests are looking for an experience. They're not just wanting to stay at a hotel David Millili: Right ... Nick Farrell: or the typical, "I need a room." No, it's, "What can this deliver me for this price?" And they'll pay it. And we've seen, especially in the, you know, three and a half star higher Yeah segments, their ADR has been rising since COVID, and so that experience is such a huge thing to tap into. And with the right merchandising and the right, focus, hotels have so much opportunity to tap into there. On the vendor side, I, I think it's ... it all comes down to these, integrations that, that vendors are creating. You know, at Ideas we had 120 different integrations, and I know there's so many companies out there that just, you know, cross connect. And it's how do you get one set of data over here? And it's not just about connecting, it's about how do you apply it? And it's, it's finding the right solution that can, you know, take all this data, put it into the right format, give you discernible next steps, give your guests a clear path, forward. You know, if they booked three things, you should be have enough data to start to know what's the next thing I suggest. Or, you know, in the case of like our way finding, hey, you're by your pool, the GM can look and say, "I've got three cabanas open. Maybe I'm gonna send them a notification. You know, here's a special offer." Yeah. There's that different engagement side that we can really tap into. But from a hotel's perspective, it's just they gotta think differently, which is think about the possibilities and then test and learn. David Millili: All right. So what's next for Funware as a platform that continues to evolve, and where do you see the biggest opportunities to expand what hotels can do with Funware? Nick Farrell: We have such an amazing tech team. And I mean, in the, the limited time that I've been here, I think three or four products have, have hit the shelf for us. And there's no signs of stopping, especially with Dima, at the top, which I love. You know, on my side, being able to say we have this suite of products that, that, you know, solution for all these different pain points, I think is an immense piece of leverage for our company. Where I see the real opportunity is us. We're gonna continue to go down this guest intelligence path, which is, you know, how do we tap into the client before, or the guest before they get to the property? How do we drive that ancillary spend? Once they're on property, how do we engage with them the right way? How do we capture more of what they're doing, and then give the hotel actionable insights behind it, either from a guest satisfaction Yeah or a, a spend perspective. So I that's the thing I'm excited about the most and, you know, I can't, I can't go too deep down this path yet because we're, we haven't officially rolled it out yet. But the, the guest intelligence side is gonna be the space that makes the next two, three years, really revolutionized for hotels. David Millili: All right. Sounds exciting. So hotel technology is often evaluated through downloads or engagement or labor savings. Which measurements or specific engagement or usage numbers actually prove the technology is improving the revenue, the operations, and the guest experience? Nick Farrell: So some of these things that, we do right now, they, they tie back right into, an ROI. So you know, the AI concierge being able to, to feed them, a recommendation and then seeing them action it, that's, that's giving us a lot of the proof points. The itinerary builder, the early success we've seen from there, that's, that's immediately showing those returns, and I think that's what the hotels have been looking for, as they look at these how do we expand deeper and connect with our guests more and drive revenue. And so I think a lot of the, the proof points sit behind there. A lot of companies will look at, the, the adoption rates, you know, how many people open the app, how are they engaging with it, and I think that's starting to scratch the surface of what all this data really means and where it can go. Some of our early success that we've seen, we've seen app engagement increase by 70%. We've seen the number of people who action the recommendations that AI concierge is giving, as high as 65%, so they're taking a direct action off of that. And that to me is showing that kind of revenue, you know, the proof is in the pudding. The, the guest satisfaction side, that's where we're really starting to expand into as well. And so you can start to track those things, you know, in the guest satisfaction scores. We've been able to, to really scrape some of the, the detail that comes off of, you know, the reviews that get left online, and you can see a demonstrable change. And so, that's where I would anchor in at, is, you know, from the hotelier's perspective, did I just invest in technology that's bringing more revenue, but at the same time are my guests getting a demonstrably better, experience? David Millili: So we've talked a lot about the guest experience and the guest, but talk about how Phunware is really impacting the efficiency of the hotel and the hotelier and the staff working at the property. Nick Farrell: It's such a unique take, and I like can't get off the AI conversation. But in AI, you know, there's people who are afraid of, "Is this gonna replace my job?" And then there's, people who are like, "We need every bit of AI, you know, solutioning out there because it's automation, it's efficiency." But I don't think anyone truly understands what that means. And, you know, so one of the things that I've talked about for the last couple years, and the, the data supports this, is AI creates the efficiency and automation, but the take that, that hotels need to be comfortable with is there's a, a real opportunity to take some of the busy work, the minutiae, the things that could get automated, take that out of your associate's hand to give them more time to be with the guest And I think that's the key, and that's, that's where we, like Phunware is coming in. We can automate some of these things. We can give them insights so that your guest experience team is engaging in a different way. Now they're not handling the tactical, you know, somebody's waiting at the front desk for 20 minutes just to ask Right. like, "What time does your restaurant open?" Right. Or, you know, "Where can I go to get a, a good burger?" Now they can type that into the app, and so it's creating that efficiency and that automation. But the guest, like I said, you know, I didn't even know I wasn't talking to a person. So that, that's, that is a huge opportunity. It's, it's just really adopting kind of that, that mentality of this is gonna improve things because now I can take my people and get them to spend time with the guest. Right. Create that human interaction. David Millili: So I love your journey from on property, OTA technology. So for the younger generation or someone who's starting out in hospitality, what advice would you give them as they look to their career? Nick Farrell: Play around in every aspect of a hotel that you can. This is such a cool industry, and you know, everyone hits their point where they're like, "All right, I've had enough of the, the operation side," and that's Yeah that's how I got into sales. But, David Millili: Been there ... Nick Farrell: truthfully, it, some of the best experiences that I had that helped build me as either a leader or a hotelier or hospitality knowledge, you know, I'd, I'd be working front desk and it's like, "Hey, can you cover lobby lizard for the sales team 'cause they're all at a show?" Right. Or, you know, we've got a big conference in, you know, get away from the phones or meeting with clients, and can you help run some food out to tables, or whatever it, it needs to be. I'd say for, for those that are getting into hospitality, it's, it's a lot, and you have to be certain that it's your passion and you're feeling good, with what you're doing. But it's go, go work in the restaurant, work in banquets, work in sales, work the front desk, but get those experiences because those are the skills that, that elevate you. And so if you're really passionate about it and you really want to, you know, be in the service industry of like serving the guest, just test, testing and learning. Yeah. But try a bunch of different things, and it's gonna give you such great exposure, and it's g it's gonna make this industry, better for it if you can get that, diversity. David Millili: Great advice. So it's been great learning about you, your background, your career, learning about Phunware. So this is the part of the podcast where we turn the tables and you get to ask me a question. Nick Farrell: Okay. All right. So you, you and I talked a little bit beforehand Yeah ... about your background. So Is there anything that you would change from your trajectory, going from on property, running a lot of hotels as a GM Yeah ... and then moving into the hospitality tech? Is there anything that you would change? David Millili: And I'm not trying to, you know, make you look good, but no, because, your advice is exactly spot on. I mean, I When I people ask me about my background, I say, "Look, I've worked every hotel I've worked every position in a hotel." I've worked, I've made beds, I've worked with the maintenance team, I've changed the light bulbs, so I guess that qualifies me for, for maintenance. Front desk, reservations, everything. So I think that's... I don't think I would change anything, 'cause I think, you know, it's also... You know, I think for the next generation it is exactly what you said, 'cause when, when I left the property and got into the tech side, people didn't know what the internet was gonna be. This was 2000, 1999, 2000. They didn't know is this gonna be a fad, is this gonna be successful? Are we all gonna be using this? Is this not gonna be anything? So I think some of the, the points you hit on in adopting and embracing AI, I think is, you know, for the younger generation, and even the older generation, they have to look back and look at history and say, "Hey, we didn't know what the internet was gonna be, and we maybe didn't jump on board quick enough." And it's the same thing now with AI. And to your point, you know, either you use it and it helps you improve, or, you know, you're gonna be left behind 'cause somebody else is gonna do it better than you. I've Nick Farrell: got one more for you Okay, sure ... if this works. What was the defining moment? You know, think back to your early career that said, "This is the right space for me." David Millili: I knew I had to get off property when it was a Saturday night. My wife and I were supposed to go out, my girlfriend at the time, we were supposed to go out to dinner. She lived with me on property. And she called me up and she said, "Well, I guess we're not going to dinner." And I said, "What are you talking about?" She's like, "Well, Saturday Night Live is on." And I'm like, "What? Like, on Comedy Central? Like a repeat or something?" She's like, "No." She's like, "You realize it's 11:30." And I didn't realize, 'cause I was so busy, it was a 300 room property in Times Square, there was so much going on, I just didn't realize that my whole night everything just, I just was, like, caught in a tidal wave. And I, after that, I kinda just said, you know, I love hotels, I respect everybody who works in hotels, but I was like, being on property and, and having that commitment was not right for me at that time. And then also you get lucky, and the internet took off, and I got the ability to do something that was unique and different, and that was kind of, that was fun, so. Nick Farrell: Very cool. David Millili: All right. Cool. All right. Well, that does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier. Nick, this is where you get to let people know how they can get in touch with you, how they can find out more about Phunware. Nick Farrell: Yeah. You can reach me on LinkedIn is the easiest way. Nick Farrell, you can find me on there. I'm really good at responding to messages. You can also email me at, [nfarrell@phunware.com]. For anybody who's at HTC or any future Hotelier conferences, I'll be around those, or our team will, and we look forward to talking to you. David Millili: right. Well, that does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier, the most engaged podcast in hospitality. Whether you're watching or listening, we appreciate you and hope to be with you again soon. Thanks for joining us, Nick. Nick Farrell: Thank you. Thanks for having me.