Latest / The Diversity Career Podcast with Fexingo: Inclusion, Equity, and Underrepresented Professionals / How One Firm Built a Career Ladder for Neurodivergent Talent
Transcript
- Lucas: So there's this mid-sized engineering firm in the Midwest called Apex Engineering — about 700 employees, does industrial controls and automation. And a few years ago, they realized something uncomfortable: their neurodivergent employees were leaving at nearly twice the rate of everyone else, and almost nobody was getting promoted past a certain level. Luna: Right, that 'glass ceiling' but specifically for people with autism, ADHD, dyslexia — the whole neurodivergent spectrum. Lucas: Exactly. So rather than just running another unconscious bias workshop, they actually redesigned their entire career ladder. And I want to talk about what they did, because it's surprisingly simple, and it's been wildly effective. Luna: Let's hear it. What was the core change? Lucas: They started with the job architecture itself. Most corporate career ladders are built around a few implicit assumptions: that you'll network effectively, that you'll advocate for yourself in meetings, that you'll pick up on unspoken cues about what gets you promoted. Those are exactly the things that many neurodivergent people struggle with — not because they can't do the work, but because the system favors a certain social style. Luna: So it's less about the actual engineering skills and more about office politics and presentation. Lucas: Right. So Apex partnered with a nonprofit called Neurodiversity Pathways, and together they built what they call a 'skills matrix' — a very literal, explicit list of what it takes to move from one level to the next. And we're not talking about vague stuff like 'demonstrates leadership.' We're talking concrete: 'Has written at least two technical design reviews that were accepted without major revisions.' Or 'Has trained at least one junior engineer on the sensor calibration protocol.' Luna: So it's almost like a skill tree in a video game — you can see exactly what you need to do to level up. Lucas: Exactly that. And they made sure the matrix didn't require a lot of self-promotion. The employee doesn't have to write a narrative about how they 'influenced' a decision. They just check off the objective criteria, and their manager verifies it. That alone eliminated a huge barrier. Luna: What about performance reviews? Those are notoriously subjective. Lucas: They redesigned those too. Instead of the standard rating scales with terms like 'exceeds expectations' — which are interpreted differently by different managers — they went to a binary checklist: 'Can do this task independently' or 'Needs support.' And they added something they call 'context cards' — a one-page document that explains exactly how the employee's particular cognitive style affects their work. So if someone has ADHD and works best in short bursts with frequent breaks, that's noted up front. It's not a secret accommodation request buried in HR; it's part of how they're evaluated. Luna: That seems like it could be useful for everyone, not just neurodivergent staff. Lucas: Absolutely. And that's kind of the point — when you design for the edges, you often improve things for the middle. But here's the really interesting part. They also created a new role: the 'inclusion support manager.' This person isn't a therapist or a coach; they're a career navigator. They meet with every neurodivergent employee quarterly and help them map their skills matrix progress, identify which projects would give them the experience they need, and advocate during promotion discussions. Luna: So it's like having a sponsor built into the system, but without the employee having to find one organically. Lucas: Exactly. And the results are pretty striking. Over three years, retention among neurodivergent employees went from 55 percent to 85 percent. Promotions into senior engineering roles — those above the 'senior engineer' level — went from zero in the three years before the program to eleven people in the three years after. For a company that size, that's meaningful. Luna: What about the cost? I imagine hiring a dedicated support manager isn't cheap. Lucas: They have two support managers now, covering about 60 employees total. Salary plus benefits, maybe two hundred thousand dollars a year. But they calculated the cost of replacing a mid-career engineer — recruiting, onboarding, lost productivity — at roughly one point five times annual salary. So if they retain even a handful of people they would have lost, it pays for itself. And that's before you count the value of the work those people are actually doing. Luna: That's a strong business case. And it's not about charity; it's about fixing a broken system. Lucas: Exactly. I think the takeaway here is that a lot of inclusion work focuses on getting people in the door — recruiting, hiring. But if the career ladder doesn't actually work for them once they're inside, you're just churning talent. Apex showed that you can redesign the ladder itself, not just the first rung. Luna: And for any listener who's thinking about their own career path, or maybe a manager who wants to advocate for these changes — it's worth noting that the skills matrix approach is pretty portable. You don't need a big DEI budget to start. Lucas: Yeah. You just need to be honest about what's actually required to advance, and then write it down. That's the first step. Luna: Speaking of practical steps — if you're finding these episodes useful in thinking through career moves or workplace strategies, and you'd like to support the show staying ad-free, we're at buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. No pressure, just folks helping keep the conversation going. Lucas: Yeah, we really appreciate that. And back to Apex — one more thing I want to mention is that they also changed their project assignment process. Instead of managers just picking people for teams, they now post all project openings on an internal board with detailed descriptions of the work style involved: 'this project requires frequent context switching' or 'this project involves deep focus on a single task for weeks at a time.' So neurodivergent employees can self-select into projects that fit their strengths. Luna: That's smart — it's like giving people a roadmap to find their best fit, rather than hoping they'll stumble into it. Lucas: Exactly. And again, it benefits everyone. The takeaway is that inclusion isn't just about policies; it's about infrastructure. The career ladder is infrastructure. If you build it right, people can climb it. Luna: It's a good reminder that sometimes the most impactful changes are the least flashy ones. Lucas: Yeah. Well, that's Apex Engineering. I'm curious to see if other firms start borrowing their playbook. For now, I think it's a model worth watching.