Latest / Free Therapy with Ben & Kevin / How to stop repeating the same patterns | Kati Morton #18

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How to stop repeating the same patterns | Kati Morton #18 · Free Therapy with Ben & Kevin

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The world needs free therapy. Hey, I am Ben.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: And I'm Kevin. And each week, Ben and I, you know,
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: we sit down with a different therapist and we talk
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: about the stuff that most people are struggling with, but
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: nobody's saying out loud.
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this week we sat down with Katie Morton. She
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: is a therapist who spent the last 15 years helping
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: millions and millions of people online understand why they keep
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: falling into the same patterns, and how to actually change them.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: This episode was so good. Katie blew me away. I
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: can't wait for you guys to hear it.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's so, so insightful.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: If you're annoyed with the problems that keep showing up
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: in your life over and over and over again, and
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: you're learning that talking about those problems is no longer
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: helping you, this episode is definitely for you.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: We got deep into what inner child work is, why
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: some of your biggest triggers and struggles can trace back
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: to what you didn't get growing up as a kid,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: and how to actually start healing those patterns today. Katie
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: had this really beautiful analogy. She said, if there's a
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: weed in your yard and you only keep ripping off
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: the top of it, It's going to keep growing back.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: You have to get to the root.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: The root. The root is on fire. That's really what
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: inner child work is all about.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: And it's been so, so transformative for me. Let's get
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: into it.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Katie Morden, welcome to Free Therapy. You are a therapist
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: who has spent well over a decade, I think almost
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: 15 years now, helping millions of people understand therapy and
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: what's going on underneath their patterns. Me and Ben have
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: had a lot of fun diving into your YouTube channel
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: and your content and how thorough you are, how much
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: you cover. It's really beautiful and amazing. On YouTube, your
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: community is over a million and a half. You have
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: your own podcast, Ask Katie Anything. And you wrote the book,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Why Do I Keep Doing This? Which is a question
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I ask myself all the time. And you're just such
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: a trusted voice in mental health. And we're so excited
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: to have you on the show.
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: And as we've been putting out episodes of Free Therapy,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: one of the most common excuses people give as to
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: why they're not in therapy when I talk to guys
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: on the street or people in my office space is
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: they just say, I don't want to just sit there
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: and keep talking about my problems. Like I just, it
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: makes me feel worse. Nothing's going to change. So why
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: should I do it? And after watching some of your content,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I just feel like inner child work could be the
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: answer to a lot of those complaints.
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: I 100% agree. I love inner child work. It sounds
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: kind of woo up front. but it's been some of
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: the most life-changing work I've personally done. But I think
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: just to go to that person's like concern or question
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: kind of that, like, I don't want to just talk
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: about my problems over and over. I don't believe venting
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: past the initial stage is actually beneficial, right? If you
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: just want to talk about your problems, then that means
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: you're spending all your time focusing on your problems and
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: that doesn't make them go away, right? It's like what
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: we look for, we're going to find. So we'll find
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: more problems and we'll keep, it's almost like we got
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: caught in like a, I don't know, a venting snowball.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: So I understand their concern and I don't think that
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: that's necessarily the best either. I agree with them. But
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: to your point, I think there are ways to move
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: past that so that when we go to therapy, of course,
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: we're going to need to like take the edge off.
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: It's like if we're feeling really full, we need to
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: like vent about things. Like life can be treating you
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: like shit and you need to tell somebody about it.
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: I'm totally that person. I come into my own therapy
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: like ready to like verbal diarrhea, you know?
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Like that's the place, right? I'm going to dump
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: all my, okay, now let's make sense of it. I
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: like to think of therapy less of like just venting
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: and more like here, I'm opening my closet. We're taking
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: everything out and then let's put it back in a
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: more like organized order.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: It's a great analogy.
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: That's why I love like, if you ever watch friends,
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: like Monica's closet, I always tell people that I'm like,
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: it's like Monica's closet, that like closet that was so
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: filled with stuff that she was like embarrassed, you know?
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: I'm like, that's like our life. That's like our inner loop.
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: And so I feel like that's therapy. It's like, we just,
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: and then we're like, okay, okay, this goes with this,
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: you know, and you just kind of like break it up.
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: And inner child work can be a huge piece of
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: that because a lot of the problems that we're having today.
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: So like our reasons that we're venting are because of
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: things that like younger Katie didn't get or younger Katie
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: didn't feel like she could speak up about or whatever.
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: And as soon as you kind of realize that connection,
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: a lot of the healing comes from being able to
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: acknowledge that and be like, cause I don't know about you,
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: like an example of Is it like, I will talk
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: shit to myself about like, I can't believe you did that.
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: So embarrassing. And this can be something that happened like
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: 10 years ago. I'm like, that's terrible. But if I
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: can look back with a little compassion and be like, Hey,
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: like 20 year old Katie didn't know, like she was
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: doing the best she could. And like, thanks. Thanks younger Katie.
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: You did it, you know, and that healing process of
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: like recognizing like, Hey, I didn't have the awareness or
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: I didn't have those tools yet. Remember you learned that
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: when you were 30 or you learned this here in
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: this relationship, it can be life-changing.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Amazing.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Why is inner child work able to reach the stuff
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: that maybe a more typical talk therapy doesn't get to?
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: I think because it acknowledges a past version of self.
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: And I say, I know that's kind of like esoteric maybe,
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: but like inner child work allows us to acknowledge things
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: that we lacked at a different age and offer it
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: to ourselves now and And I think a lot of
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: other therapies work on the now. And sometimes, or at
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: least for me personally, we're still holding on to baggage
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: from there. So it's like, if I don't let that go,
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: now isn't really going to get better. You know, it'd
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: be like when you're building a house, it'd be like
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: ignoring the foundation. And you're like, yeah, just keep going.
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: Just keep building it. And you're like, no, like the
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: foundation's not sturdy. And so I feel like inner child
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: work allows you to like, take it back to the studs,
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: go down into it, make sure it is like foundational.
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: It is supportive and build from there.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: And I think what's interesting about inner child work is
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: like you said it, it's kind of like, why should
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: I do that? It's this, it's that, like there's a
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: little bit of like a negative connotation of like, I
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: don't want to do that or it's not important. But
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: I think what people tend to not realize, and this
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: is a personal story as well, is like you actually
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: don't know how your inner child is inhibiting you today
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: until you start to look at what happened to you
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: when you were a child, right? Like you don't know
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: why maybe you're a little insecure. You don't know maybe
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: why you have a hard time maintaining a relationship or
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: taking criticism or, you know, all of these things that
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: really block us from being, you know, not a better person,
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: but someone who's more in touch with why they're.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Doing the things they're doing.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: And you make a great point about when you go
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: into therapy and you talk about your current problems and
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: you just talk about your problems, you're actually not even
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: getting to the root of it. And that's why I
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: think therapy is so healthy. Yes, my mom was a therapist,
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: but I think because... I love that.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.
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  Speaker 3: And I get the whole problems thing, but I just
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: want to reiterate because I hear this so much. I hear, no,
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: talking about your problems make it worse.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: And I totally agree.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: But you still have to get into therapy to find
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: that foundation. And then if you understand the foundation, fine,
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: get out of therapy. But you have to really understand
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: who you were when you were a child. And what
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: your family was like and the things you, the adaptive
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: things you developed to survive. And I think I really
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: encourage people to not look so negatively on the term
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: inner child.
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: I agree. I mean, I love that you said the
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: root because my audience will know. I say like, get
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: to get to the root of the root. If you
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: don't pull it out, it's like, maybe it's the country
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: girl in me. I was raised in like middle of nowhere.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: But like, if you don't pull a weed out by
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: the root, it'll grow right back. And I think of
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: that with like our thought patterns and our behavioral patterns
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: and our relationship patterns that if you don't figure out
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: like what's causing you to always end up in these
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  Speaker 4: weird like dynamics, whether you're like, I don't know why
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: I keep ending up with people who don't treat me well,
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: or I don't know why I end up with people
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: who shut down or run away or too clingy or whatever,
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: like you're part of that relationship. So it's not a
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: hundred percent on you. And like, wherever you go, there
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: you are, right? So you're gonna end up in another
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: relationship with the same. And so you have to figure
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: out what that root is. And I think inner child
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: work tells us a lot about that because our first,
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, we know through like psychological research, the first
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: year of life forms attachment, which essentially we don't have
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: to get into attachment theory. We can, but it's like,
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: you're putting together a blueprint. It's like your parents without
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: realizing it as the way they interact with you and
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: how they navigate you needing things and calling for help
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: and all of that. You're like drawing a blueprint. You're like, okay,
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: love looks like this. okay, conflict looks like that. And
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: you're putting together this like emotional blueprint. And at last
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: they say the first year is like critical, but then
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: it goes until about five years old where we're finishing
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: this blueprint of what we're going to take into the
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: rest of our life of like how relationships operate. How
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: do we deal with things that are upsetting? What does
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: it mean when somebody yells at you? How do you
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: repair after that? Like all of the little things we
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: take that with us. And that's why like, To your
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: point is that then we can later be like, I
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: don't know why this is upsetting to me, or I
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: don't know why I'm triggered by this, or I don't
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: know why I keep doing it. There's your answer. It's
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: in that blueprint and going back and doing that work.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: that inner child work to realize like, Hey, where did
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: that come from? Who, who told me that or showed
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: me that? That is like, I mean, for me, it's
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: been like life changing. Sometimes I'm like, you're not your mother,
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: you know, or you don't have to act like that.
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: You're not your grandmother. Like, Just patterns of behavior as
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: a woman, especially my family that have been passed down
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: to be like, well, you don't need to rest. You're
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: the one that has to keep everybody together. You're the
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: one that does all this work. Like says who? Because
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: I wrote it down, right? Because somebody showed me. And
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: until we question that, we can't change it. Or at
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: least until we acknowledge it and see it, we can't
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: change it.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Would you feel comfortable sharing a bit about your own
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: process with inner child's work? Maybe the example you just
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: brought up, like what? are you actually working on and
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: doing to heal those patterns?
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: So in my own work, my own inner child work,
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: the first piece for me was recognizing things that I
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: did that I didn't like. And I don't mean that
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: we should all just go like shit talking ourselves and
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: being like, Oh my God, you're doing this. And you
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: hate that you do. It's more like recognizing by, I
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: call it being like a detective about your own life.
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: Like look back and be a detective.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: So I had this relationship, let's say, uh, I don't know.
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: I mean, I had a ton of bad relationships, let's
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: be honest. So like, let's say my early twenties, uh,
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: dating a guy and I used to be super competitive
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: and never really understood where it came from. And it
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: would embarrass me. Like we, I maybe wanted to play
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: like a fun game at a party and I'd be like,
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: I have to win. Like, so embarrassing looking back again,
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: but younger Katie didn't know. You got to give her
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: a little credit. Hey, you're doing the best you can.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: Just surviving. And then I brought up with my therapist
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: quite a few times. I think I've I think I
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: wrote about it. And why do I keep doing this?
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: Sometimes I forget what got edited out or not, but
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: I think that stayed in. I was super competitive and
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: I hated it. And so I brought it to my
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: therapist and I was like, Hey, I hate that I
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: do this. And she was like, okay, well, let's just
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: be curious about it. Let's figure it out. And so
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: over probably months, if I'm being honest, I'm slow in therapy.
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: I wish I could say like, I just, I know better,
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: but it takes me a while to like, not be defensive.
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: And so even with myself, because I'm like, no, no,
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: I'm fine, you know, doing the best I can. But
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: I realized that this competitive nature in me was because
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: I always felt like I had to earn attention because
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: my dad worked away from home a lot. So there
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: was a scarcity of him. So when he came back,
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: I felt like I had to compete with my brother
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: and my aunts and uncles and his friends for his time.
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: And so I thought, well, if I was first chair
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: in band, If I got the lead in the play,
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: if I got straight A's, if I was on the
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: varsity team, like I tried to do everything, you guys,
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: and be like number one at everything, then I'd get
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: more time with my dad. Now, adult me hears that
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: and is like, that doesn't make any sense. But like
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: child me, that made sense. She was like, hey, how
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: do dad likes when you do well? Why wouldn't he
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: like if you're doing the best at everything? So that's
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: kind of that process to say like that pattern. It
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: came with a symptom. I don't like that I do this.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: And then you have to be curious, not judgmental about
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: like where it came about and what, and my therapist
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: really helped with that because I don't know if I
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: would have made the connection to my dad other than
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: her saying, that's a scarcity thing. You're acting like there's
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: not enough attention. And then she was like, I had
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: to journal about like where I thought that might've come from.
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: And it took me a while to realize that connection.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: So I know that's a long-winded answer, but everybody's going
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: to be a little bit different. And I have a
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: million of those examples because When you're younger, you don't
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: have all the information you have now, which is why
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: it's important to think back to that frame of mind.
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: And you do the best you can with what you have.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: And usually that means you're controlling yourself. So it's like,
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: what actions did I take to try to make myself
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: feel better then? And how is that affecting me today?
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: Does that even make sense, you guys?
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: It does.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: I love the statement, I don't like that I do this.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: And it's not critical. I don't hear it as critical.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I actually... Instead of saying, I don't like that this
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: thing happens in my life, which is maybe projecting on
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: the world around you. I don't like that I do
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: this is actually totally in your control. You're taking agency
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: for the fact that, oh, I do this thing where
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: I get into relationships and I may be overly anxious
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: in them and I cling on too tight and I'm
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: whatever it is. And so when you go into therapy
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: with these things that, hey, I don't like that I
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: do this and this is what happens in my relationships
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: over and over and over. It sounds like you're actually
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: able to take more agency in that conversation with your therapist.
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: Totally. It's more empowering to say it that way.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: What's funny to me is, okay, I kind of agree
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: with you, but I also think there's another angle. I
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: don't like when this happens to me. So if you're
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: out in the world, I don't like when girls break
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: up with me. I don't like when I get fired
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: from a job. I don't like when I always forget
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: to pay my rent. Right.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: That's one step before.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You're right.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Yes. And then if you, I love what happens to me,
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: there's a hundred percent something there.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: If it's a pattern in your life.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Right. And then one step under, I don't like that
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: this happens to me is what are you, you know,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Jerry Colonna has this quote, how are you complicit in
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: creating the conditions you say you don't want?
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Hmm. Yes.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: It's like, what's your own role in your suffering?
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Exactly. So it's like, why is this happening to me?
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Underneath that is what am I doing that I don't like?
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: And it's like, I think it's like a, such a
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: great self-reflective question. Cause I bet you, anybody listening to
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: this has three things. They're just writing down really quick.
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: And maybe a good place to start. You're right. Ben is,
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: I don't like that this is happening to me because
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: that that's easier to think about.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: And then taking responsibility after that. What am I doing?
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: But that probably happens in therapy.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: If you go into therapy and you go, I don't
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: like this is what happens to me, you probably don't
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: know the behavior just yet.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: You don't know how you're doing it.
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: What do you think, Katie? I think it depends on
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: the person.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: We're just going to go back and forth for the
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: next hour.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Don't worry. You're good.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Thanks.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Hi, Katie.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: But different levels of insight, right? Some people recognize like, hey,
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: I'm doing this. And that also depends, I think, sometimes
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: on like what your struggles are. Okay. So I'm a...
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: I'm definitely more like I should talk myself more. People
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: please are like perfectionist, right? I feel like I have
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: to earn love. So you best believe I'm going to
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: blame myself, right? And so I think that like that
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: gives insight, which means that we will recognize we're like,
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: I don't like that I'm doing this. Like we'll probably
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: jump to that. But there's a ton of people and
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: I'd argue probably fit. I don't know, maybe probably 30, 30, 30, right?
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: Like we're all even in this. Because a huge chunk
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: of people are like, I don't like when these things
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: happen to me. And then there can also be like
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: people who think like, I don't know why this keeps
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: happening to me. And I feel like it just probably
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: depends on your perspective or how it's probably a pattern,
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: another pattern, right? Mine is like, you're the one that's
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: the fuck up, get it together. And someone else might
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: be like, everything's, they like want to blame. And there's
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: no better, no one's better or worse. It's just kind
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: of how we navigate.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: Are there common themes that your inner child affects your day-to-day,
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: whether you said, I mean, you said perfectionist, you said
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: people pleaser, but I guess if someone was like, that
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: might be related to my inner child, what are some
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: of those behaviors or problems that they might be looking for?
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: I think the most common, I mean, it's a great question.
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: Everyone's going to look a little different. And the most
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: common is when you're in an intimate relationship. Intimate does
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: not mean romantic. I just mean close. I mean, somebody
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: that knows you. How you navigate conflict, boom, inner child.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: How you navigate any kind of distance. So let's say
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: like they just had a baby, so they're not available
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: or just got married. Like there's a life change and
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: the dynamic has shifted. How you experience that, inner child.
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: And then I also think the conversation that you have
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: without realizing it about yourself when you enter a new environment,
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: inner child. Like those would be the main pieces.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: The conversation that you have with yourself when you enter
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: a new environment.
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: Interesting.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: Like they're going to judge me. They're not going to
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: like me. If we pulled our clothes, you know, what
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: are you saying? We all have it. Like, you know,
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: I'll usually try to look around to see who's, who's
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: the friendliest, who looks the friendliest. And I'm like, I'll
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: befriend them. Then I'll have a buddy. Cause I'm better
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: with a buddy, you know, like, but, but how do
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: you do that? And where does that come from?
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: And why?
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: Why do we think we do that, you know?
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: I have done a lot of therapy, obviously.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: But like I started to do inner child work after
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: so much talk therapy and I was kind of adverse
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: to it because I was like, this is so, again,
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: I didn't love the concept of it. And it actually
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: ended up solving a lot of the things that were
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: really deep rooted, right? Like the insecurity of not being enough, right?
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: I learned came from being bullied as a child and
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: and being, you know, more attuned to my feelings. And
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: so that affected me, you know, in relationships with girls,
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: because I was like trying to prove myself or whether
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: it was like meeting new guy friends, having to do
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: things that were like maybe more masculine, but weren't true
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: to myself. And so my therapist recommended two things. Actually,
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: she recommended one thing. And then I saw one thing online.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: The first thing was, which we have a question here
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: about writing a letter to yourself as a child, like,
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: which was like, broke me in tears, right? Dear Ben,
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm so sorry that happened to you when
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: you were a kid. Like you were just, you know,
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: a really kind young boy and other boys felt threatened
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: by you because girls were closer to you. And they,
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: and I was like, wow, like how, how sad for myself, right?
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: I felt so bad, but I, it wasn't just the
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: letter that changed it because I was, I was needing
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: to remind myself of that work daily because I don't
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: think that inner child work is like a I did
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: it it's like a reminding yourself as you're going through
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: your life in your day-to-day to like consciously remember that
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: you have to you know give your inner child compassion
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: so I saw online so funny so I think it
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: was like Kendall Jenner or Hailey Bieber.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I don't even know. I can't even say this out loud.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: But there was like a TMZ post that was like,
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Kendall Jenner has a picture of her baby self on
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: her phone. And then Kendall Jenner respond, oh, because I'm
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: doing inner child work. And so I put a picture
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: of five-year-old Ben on the back of my phone for
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: like a year. And every time I picked up my phone,
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: I reminded myself to be kind to myself. And now
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: it is ingrained in my brain to any time that
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: bully shows up, just to take a step back be like, oof,
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: you don't.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: You know, you don't, you're not the bully. You know
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: what I mean?
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: There's so much about that. I love, first of all,
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: I always tell people to have a photo or video
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: of themselves at that age. Cause it's us. And we
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: forget what a, what five-year-old Ben looked like.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: And then when you see yourself as a child, you're like, oh,
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: there's like a part of you. Cause you're like, I
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: was so little, like I didn't know anything, you know?
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: Cause we look back with adult eyes and like, you know,
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: we'll say things like, well, why didn't you stand up
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: for yourself? Or why didn't you do this? Or like,
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: You knew better. No, I didn't. I actually didn't. And
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: you forget because you forget what you... So photos and
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: videos are key. I love that. You never know how
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: things are going to reach you, right? Kendall Jenner, hey,
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: at least she was being honest and it was helpful.
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: So I love that. I love the letters. I always
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: tell people to write letters. But the part that I
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: actually loved about what you were talking about is that
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: I don't need to bully myself. I think for whatever reason,
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: when something happens to us, we often... Take that thing
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: that happened and we keep doing it. So like somebody
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: initially started the hurt, right? So somebody said something that
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: was painful. You were bullied in school. So those pieces
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: of garbage showed up and they said things that were
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: hurtful because they were insecure about their own shit, right?
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: We left that environment. You're not in school anymore. You're
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: not around those bullies. But then we take, we're like, well,
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: don't worry. I'm just going to keep doing this. And
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: we do it to ourselves because it's like, that's all
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: we know. again it's a pattern to break we didn't
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: start the pattern it can help to know where it
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: came from and then you know what what age of
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: photo to pull up and be like you know that
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: was yeah.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Just beautiful.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: There's so many threads I want to pull on from
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: this already. I'm really loving this.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I was just thinking about a story. I have
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: a friend. We're on our way to the Dodger game.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: We stopped off at a drink before and he's like, oh,
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: I just, I've been in therapy for the last three months.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: It's been awesome. Like, dude, that's so cool. It was
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: like first time really getting into it. And he goes, yeah,
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: I went in because I was in this toxic relationship
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: and I understand why it was so toxic and yada, yada, yada.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: And then after the relationship, he was like, man, we
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: just started like talking. And my therapist was like, so
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: what was it like for you growing up? What were
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: your What was the name within your parents? And he
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: comes to me and he goes, dude, this inner child
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: shit is fucking awesome. He goes, I'm just like learning
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: why these patterns keep showing up. And he's like, it's
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: fucking awesome. He was genuinely excited because he's a smart guy.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: He's really smart.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: And he's like, oh, and it's clicking for him and
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: it's clicking and it's clicking and he wants to learn more.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: And it's like you go in for one reason of.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Therapy, right?
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: Whatever it is, you know, a little problem job or relationship.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: And then you like have the courage to stay in,
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: let your therapist and build that relationship.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: And you just like, you uncover so much.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: And I, I like, I, I really was like excited
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: for this conversation because I remember his face to me
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: when he said inner child, because I think it had
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: the stigma for him too.
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: Especially. Yeah. As a dude, I would assume guys have
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: their own inner child sounds so feminine or weak in
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: some way. And I don't mean that because it is
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: because no therapy work is easy and no therapy work is,
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: you know, Like gender specifics.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: The toughest thing you can do. It's the strongest thing
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: you can do to address all this stuff.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah. But I love that he had that aha moment,
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: you know, because as a therapist and someone in therapy,
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: those are the best, man. When you're like, oh my,
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: you have this like, my head explodes. We were like,
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: oh my God, I'm doing... Oh my God. You start,
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: it's like, that's why, I don't know if you watched
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: the movie Inside Out, either one of them.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Love. Best.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: Love it. It's such a good representation of how our
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: brain works. But besides that, I love that like, oh
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: my God, my head exploded. This all makes sense. Is
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: they do a great job like when sadness is touching
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: all the memories and you're like, oh my God, she's
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: creating nostalgia, right? You realize you like, cause joy is like,
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: you're messing them up. Why are you touching them? And
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: it's like, those are aha moments when we have a
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: different part of us that touches memories. It's like you
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: look back because we've always thought of it in one
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: kind of way. And then we have that realization. It's
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: almost like we've touched them with a different thing. And
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: then we're like, oh my God, you know, you can't
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: change them back. You see it with a different perspective.
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: You now, you view it with that new knowledge, if
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: that makes sense. Yeah.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: I think Inside Out is the perfect representation of inner
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: child work, right? Because it's so clearly shows how the
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: childhood experiences and memories get stored in your brain. and
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: create your core traits and ways that you show up
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: in the world and what ends up being the dominant
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: emotions you stick with or experience you have of the world.
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: Yes. I love her. It's her core beliefs or something
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: and how she was like, she played hockey, but then
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: she outgrew it, right? Hockey became not as important for her.
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: And then it started to like go down, but then social,
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: social got bigger, more friends, you know, she's a teenager.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: Totally makes sense.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: I think it should be mandatory for every adult to
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: see that movie. Like I'm not, and that's like the
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: most serious thing I'm saying is like, if you're in
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: your thirties or twenties and maybe you have done therapy,
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: you haven't, you have to go see it.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Any age. I was on a plane with my mom
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: and she's like, what movie should I watch? And I
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: was like, inside out. And she's like, I'm not watching
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: a cartoon. I was like, no, you're watching. We argued
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: for five minutes. She starts it 30 minutes later. I
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: look at her. She's bawling.
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: Because it's not age specific. It's a cartoon, but it's
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: very adult. Yes, it's an adult film. And I love
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: that we're teaching it to kids because it's like emotional intelligence,
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: which we should be teaching to children.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: So Inside Out takes a great example. So she moved
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: away as a kid, right? And new school, new environment,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: had this stuff. And that turned into maybe this aggression
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: with her family and feeling like the loner, feeling left
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: out as a teenager, as an adult. How does inner
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: child's work actually change any of this? How does becoming
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: aware of it change anything?
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: I think awareness itself doesn't necessarily change anything on its own, right?
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: Like knowing better doesn't always mean we do better. But
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: I think when we have that awareness, then we can
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: be empowered to act differently. Meaning that like when we're
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: talking about inner child work, I'm like, oh my God,
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: I can see this connection with my like perfectionism and
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: I have to earn love. coming from the fact that
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: my dad worked away from home a lot, so I
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: felt like love was a scarcity, like I had to
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: hustle for it, okay? So now I know that. Okay,
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: how does that apply to things in my life today?
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: What are the things I'm doing that are feeding into
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: that belief that I don't want to have anymore? There's
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: no scarcity of love. I'm enough just as I am.
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: I know that, but I don't act that way, right?
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: I don't believe that. And so awareness is like that
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: first step. It's like once I kind of get it
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh, we have those aha moments. Aha
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: moments are great in therapy, but they're only amazing and
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: good for us if we take that aha moment and
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: we act differently. So like your friend, Ben, that was like,
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: oh my God, like I'm seeing it. And I have
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: a feeling he was like, this is why I end
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: up in toxic relationships. My parents had a toxic relationship.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: Like a lot of people have that realization. Then the
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: way he applies that is to be like, I'm attracted
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: to this person but they remind me of this. I
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: don't want to do that. So even though I'm attracted
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: to them, because I wish I could tell people, once
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: you know, you won't like those people anymore. You'll still
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: be attracted. You'll be like, wow, this is so easy.
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: They're so interesting. No, no, you're going to be like,
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: but that's not healthy. And so this person is actually
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: the one I'm going to take on a date because
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: they seem different. And I'm trying different.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: I'm starting to go back now to Ben's great question
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: around Like what are the things that show up in
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: life that maybe the root of them is inner child pain,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: which you said is how you handle conflict in relationships,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: how you handle distance in relationships, intimate relationships, friendships. And
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: then the third one was how you feel when you
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: enter a new space.
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: I'd even add one now that we're talking about this
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: more is like what you think love looks like.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: What you think love looks like. And so all four
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: of these now feel very, they're all relational, right? This
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: is all about how we engage and interact with people
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: who matter to us.
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: Yes, 100%.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: And so is it really as simple as looking at
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: how your parents and or siblings and the experience you
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: had as a kid, the relationships that you had as
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: a kid, like what actually is in our child work?
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Are you just looking at, okay, what are the relationships
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: you had? Where did you maybe feel pain or sadness
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: or loneliness or isolation? And then dissecting those like, I
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: actually haven't done inner child work myself. What is it?
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, great question. I think what you said is yes. Like,
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: is it going back and like recognizing the relationship patterns
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: in your family of origin? 100%. However, I think there's
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: another layer to it, which we kind of talked about
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: with like writing the letters. I think alongside that, like,
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: awareness or understanding layer of like, okay, this is how
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: my family showed love to each other. This is how
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: my family dealt with conflict. This is how my family
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: communicated needs. This is how, you know, we're learning all
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: about that. And we're like, oh my God, oh my God.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: We're already like our heads are exploding. But then I
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: think the next stage, at least in the way that
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: I do it in my office and the way I've
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: done it as a client in therapy is that then
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: there's this conversation with a younger version of yourself. so
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: that you can hear from him or her. And something
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: about those conversations allows you to then not just understand
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: the dynamics, but hear about what you needed, or what
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: you wanted and didn't get, or how you felt in
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: that moment. Because understanding doesn't get into the like, then
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: me as little Katie, what did she interpret that as?
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: Like adult me can be like, well, clearly this was happening.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: But like younger me felt like she wasn't enough. younger
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: me felt like attention had to be earned and she
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: wasn't getting enough at home. Well, why was that? Okay,
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: and so she felt lonely, right? So you have to
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: talk to that younger you to then figure out how
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: it impacted you on an emotional level. And in that process,
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: I feel like that's kind of the work because then
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: those things like feeling like I'm not enough or feeling
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: really lonely or having those responses, then I can work
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: to heal that now. I can give those things to
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: me now.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: I agree.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: I think that, that was the key for me is
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: what does adult Ben need that younger Ben did not get?
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: And I think simply just asking yourself that, right?
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: Like have like what, and I'll ask you, you don't
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: have to do it now, but like generally to journal
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: on it, what did a younger Kevin not get that
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: I can give to him today? And what age did
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: you feel like you needed that thing? And me was,
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: mine was like seven, eight, nine, 10, right? Maybe even
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: a little bit older, eight, nine, 10, 11, right? And
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: because things happen to me, right? I got punched in
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: the back of a head when I was 12 years
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: old by a random guy who heard a rumor about
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: me with my girlfriend who lied, whatever. Why it happened
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter. But what did 12-year-old Ben need in that
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: moment that he didn't get from his friends? He didn't
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: get from his parents. He didn't get from the school, right?
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: And I like gave him that confidence, that encouragement, that love.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: And to this day, it's like, I constantly, I will
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: feel that pain forever, right? It is like a little
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: T trauma, right? It just shows up and it's like, okay,
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: I'm going to give myself a hug or I'm going
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: to go to the gym and lift some weights, right?
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to do the things that younger Ben
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: couldn't do.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: Right. I also love mirror work for this, which might
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: be a little too intense for some people, but it's
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: something that I do to help younger Katie is you
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: look in the mirror and you say the things that
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: you wished you could have heard then. So like you
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: have to do it regularly and it's okay. You probably
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: cry for the first like week or so. I probably
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: cried every time, but I always say things to myself.
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: Like you're enough. I see you. We've got this. You're
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: good enough to showing up. You don't have to earn anything.
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: You know, you can say the things that you wish
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: you were able to tell yourself back then, or that
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: somebody else was able to tell you. And that can
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: be really helpful too.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's awesome.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I totally agree with that.
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Like a really clear one for me is as a kid,
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: my family was not good at repairing any conflict. There
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: would pretty much be big conflict and an argument, yelling, anger,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: and then there would just be silence and avoidance of
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: what happened and completely ignoring the fact that there was
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: even an argument for two, three days, and then just
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: dissipation into the normalcy of life. And for a long time,
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: I was really bad at addressing any conflict because to me,
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: conflict never had repair. I didn't observe conflict that had
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: healthy repair. So I thought addressing it was actually the
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: thing you're not supposed to do because it would just
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: lead to pain.
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: Did we grow up in the same house?
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right. Are you my sister?
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: You guys look, wow, I can see the resemblance.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, so that was my experience. And then as an adult,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: for a long time, I avoided conflict. And then I
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: realized that it was really causing a lot of chaos
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: and pain in my relationships. So I addressed it and
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: I started to do the uncomfortable thing every time, which
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: was I really don't want to do this, but I'm
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: going to say the thing that's bothering me or the
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: thing that I feel like I need to address. I
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: really don't want to do it, but I'm going to
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: do it. So I've been able to retrain some muscle
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: memory of feeling a little more comfortable bringing it up.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: And obviously if the person, if I have a rapport
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: with a person in my current relationship, she's amazing at
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: receiving that kind of feedback. And so I feel more safe.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: bring that stuff up and still it's, I still have trouble.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: And so I'm just wondering like, is it like, is
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: this something that you would go back in or, you know,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: you would have me go back in to the inner
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: child's work of what did Kevin need as a five, seven,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: 10 year old?
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: I mean, I grew up in that same exact household.
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: So a ton of my work is like, my therapist
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: calls it leaning in instead of running away. Because I'm
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: avoidant for that reason. Because I'm like, conflict means things
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: end and I don't know how to fix it. So
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: things will bother me. I'll never say anything and I'll
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: explode later, which is always so wonderful. But to your
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: question with inner child work, there is a piece of
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: that that could be addressed in letters to younger Kevin.
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: Like you could... write him a letter, like apologizing for
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: something that happened. Like, I know that this happened and
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: nobody told you they were sorry, but I'm sorry that
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: you went through this. That can be really healing because
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: the thing that I want everybody to know about inner
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: child work is it has nothing to do with anybody else,
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: but you. So it's only the things you can give
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: yourself because we can't count on somebody else to do
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: it or to be able to do it in the
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: right way. I think a lot of people get hung
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: up on that thinking, well, if my parent could just apologize,
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: Or if the bullies from school just said, sorry, I
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: feel better. And then we're giving all our power away
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: to somebody else, right? But in inner child work, it's
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: all about you. So yeah, you could go back in
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: your memory and be like, yeah, I remember this big
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: blow up. And I don't know, my sister said this thing,
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: or my mom said this thing, or something happened, right?
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: And I was really hurt. I'd want you to go
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: back to that in your head and be like, how
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: could someone apologize? And what would it look like if
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: I repaired it? And could I do that with my
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: younger self? to in a way you're almost like demonstrating
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: what healthy repair could look like because that's what you're
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: hoping to learn now right it's like we're trying to
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: go back out not teach our younger self but hear
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: from him hear what he needed and offer him that
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: care and support.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: Katie, this has been like, I was just thinking about
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: how great this conversation has been. I'm like, wow, I
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: don't know if I.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Haven't said a lot of this stuff out loud.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: But I think what is interesting about this conversation is like,
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: no matter what, something happened in your childhood that affected
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: you today. No one has a perfect family, right? Some
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: adaptive behavior is affecting your life negatively today. And I
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: think it's super important for anyone just to like have
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: a conversation with a friend.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: About it first. A guy you trust, a girl you trust, right?
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: And see what your childhood was like.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: And I think exploring that is just like me even
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: saying it out loud has really been just nice to
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: like revisit it.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Because I don't feel like that anymore, you know?
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: I feel like I've healed such a big part of
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: my life in that area. Yeah.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: So I've heard a lot of people say, I don't
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: have any big traumas as a kid. Yeah, my childhood
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: wasn't great. It wasn't perfect. But my family's great. They
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: loved me. I thought that. I mean, it's true. My
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: family was very loving to me and great. How do
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: you respond to them? That person who thinks, well, I
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: don't need this because I didn't have any big traumas.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: I love that question because I'm that way too. I
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: love my family. My family's great. Having issues with your
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: past and having like adaptations that you created to survive
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: doesn't mean your family wasn't loving. I feel like one
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: does not equate to that. You know, that's not the
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: equation that we're putting together. It's less about... that and
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: it's more about how you were affected. What are the
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: things you learned from it? And so I just want
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: to like reframe that because a lot of people will
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: say like, my family was loving or I liked my dad.
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: I mean, he wasn't, you know, sometimes things weren't great,
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: but like, I love my dad too, but he wasn't
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: around a lot and that impacted me. I loved my
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: dad and that still impacted me, right? Those two things,
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: they can coexist. I feel like a lot of therapy
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: is learning how to hold two truths that for whatever reason,
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: our brain wants to be like, these can't exist together.
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, no, they can and they need to.
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: But more to the point of your question where you're
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: talking about that it wasn't a trauma or it wasn't traumatic.
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: I hear that all the time. And I just want
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: to run through some traumas that people don't consider traumas
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: because of the fact that they're more common. We think
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: traumas are uncommon after these huge events. Like I was
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: in an accident. I was sexually abused. I was physically
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: bullied and beaten. No, traumas could be financial trauma. Maybe
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: we were poor. We worried about food. We worried about electricity.
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: Worried about getting shoes and getting teased at school for
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: having old clothes. Trauma. Parents got divorced. Trauma. Moved a lot. Trauma.
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: Think of even being bullied, no physicality of it. Like
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: people talking, making fun of you. Trauma. having a learning
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: disability and not having it diagnosed. Oof, trauma. There are
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: so many things in our lives that are, we would
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: call like, they call them big T, little T. Sometimes
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: I love and hate that because people can think, well,
• 40:02
  Speaker 4: big T's are more real traumas. No, we say big
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: because it's like that one big event, you know, like
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: a car accident. I was beat up, something like that.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: But little T's add up to trauma. One of my
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: good friends who's a trauma specialist, Dr. Alexa Altman described
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: it is in my book Traumatized. I was like, she
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: wrote a blurb for me, love Alexa, about how big T's,
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: imagine you're standing in the ocean and you're just up
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: to your ankles. You just feel the waves lapping. A
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: big T trauma is like a tsunami comes and knocks you,
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: pulls you out. That's a big T trauma. Little T's
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: like one hits you above the knee. You're like, ooh, ooh,
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: you take a step. You try to get your footing.
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: Then it hits you at the waist, hits you at
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: the waist, hits you at the waist. And before you
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: know it, you're underwater. Either way, You are traumatized. It's
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: just the impacts can feel different. And we try to talk,
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: I don't know if it's talk down, but like minimize
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: the impact of those waste waves, thinking that they're not
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: important or valuable, but they are. And your waste waves,
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: your little T traumas could be any number of things.
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: You know, like I would argue some of mine where
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: when my dad would say he was going to show
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: up to one of my events and then he wouldn't
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: because work held him later than he thought. Adult me
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: can be like, totally makes sense. Young me was devastated,
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: you know? And so if anybody's out there thinking like, Oh,
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: things aren't bad enough, bad enough compared to what, what's
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: your measuring tape? What are you comparing yourself to? Do
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: you think because you weren't physically abused by a parent
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: that you don't deserve to get care? That's an interesting belief.
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: That'd be something I'd want to be curious about because
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: there's no comparison. You taking, it doesn't, it's not like
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: it's pie. Pain is not pie. You taking a piece
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: doesn't take it from anybody else. You know, there's unfortunately
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: plenty to go around.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: I just want to reiterate, we're not talking about these
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: traumas to just sit in them for no purpose. It's
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: going back to the questions like, why does this keep
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: happening to me? And what am I doing to make
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: the stuff that I don't like keep continue to happen?
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: And we're going back and going, okay, so this stuff
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: happened in our childhood and How can I love myself more,
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: give myself the things I didn't have, give myself the
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: support I didn't need, give myself the care, the words
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: that I didn't get as a child when these things happened.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: So that maybe when a rhyming experience comes up in
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: our present day life, right? Like there is conflict in
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: my family and it's unresolved. And I have even nothing
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: to do with the conflict, but it's happening. And I
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: want to come in as the fixer and the peacemaker
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: and be like, no, no, no, but no, guys, come
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: on and try and solve everything. I'm just realizing all
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: this right now. I'm just saying it out loud, like
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: that I can sit with myself and be like, Kevin,
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: it's okay.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: I love you.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: You don't need to solve this right now. It's not
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: your job to solve.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: It's not your conflict.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: Right. You could step out of your old role. It's like,
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: in some ways, I think we have to like take
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: out that old hat and be like, I know you're
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: tired of doing this and you don't have to do
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: it anymore. You know, and you can kind of set
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: it down. And acknowledging the trauma is like you said,
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: doesn't mean wallowing in them. It just means validating younger you.
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: You'd be like trauma was really uncomfortable for you. And
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: they never resolved it. You never heard sorry. You never
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: felt like it was repaired. So to have it felt
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: like a chasm. And then you're like, I guess I
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: just have to walk around this. I'll figure my way around.
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: Because we can't walk across. No one's building a bridge.
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: We're just going to pretend it doesn't exist. Going to
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: put like a rug over it.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: And that's uncomfortable. So adult you is like, I just
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: don't want to be uncomfortable. Right.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: I like the visual of taking off the hat. I'm like, hey,
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: this is my fixer peacemaker hat. It just appeared on
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: my head right now. I'm going to take it off.
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah. It gets heavy, you know?
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: I feel like I could go on forever about this stuff.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: I definitely just like, can I ask you now, will
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: you just come back on eventually? I'm going to call
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: your publicist.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Can I get on?
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: I need her in like, I think I need her.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: In like eight weeks or two months so we can
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: just revisit this or something. Cause I'm just like, I mean, yeah, it's,
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: this has been a really interesting conversation.
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, of course. I'm happy to. And I'm usually,
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: like I said, I'm usually out in LA more often
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: so we can try to make it happen.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we do it in person.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: We love to have you in the studio.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: The last question we love to ask the therapists that
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: come on the show is what are some of the
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: biggest misconceptions you think people have about therapy?
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: There's quite a few. The number one is that you
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: go into therapy to get fixed, that a therapist is
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: going to fix something. The thing I always like to
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: tell people is that you have all the pieces to
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: your puzzle. A therapist just helps you find them because
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: you've like misplaced them or you don't want to look
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: in that one area. And so that's more what therapy is.
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: The therapist, unfortunately, doesn't have that skill and we're not
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: going to fix you. I also hear a misconception that
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: like therapy is just where you go to just talk
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: like friends, like you just go to just, you know,
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: bitch about your life. Like we kind of discussed here,
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: that's not really what it is. I mean, some people do.
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: That is their therapy experience. I would encourage you to
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: find a therapist who challenges you. That's a huge, important
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: piece in therapy. I think those are the top two.
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: I'm sure I could come up with a zillion more.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: What would you say to.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: a guy who is thinking about therapy, but hasn't pulled
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: the trigger yet on doing it.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: What would you say?
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: Reach out sooner rather than later and know that you,
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: I always encourage people. If you're new to this, do
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: two things. Number one, look up a bunch in your
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: area or ask for a referral from a friend, even better.
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: We can go to like psychology today. Look at people
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: in your area. Okay. Then the second thing is I
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: want you to make a free, like make an appointment
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: for a free consultation. All therapists offer them anywhere from
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: 15 minutes. Some will give you a whole hour. There's
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: no need for you to pay money to figure out
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: if it's a good fit for you. Because the most
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: important part of therapy isn't your therapist's degrees or what
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: their specialties are. I know it sounds crazy. I spent
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: a lot of money on that stuff, but it's not important.
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: The most important piece is actually how connected you feel
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: to them, how well you feel like they see you
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: and they hear you, and that therapeutic relationship. And so
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: I want to make sure that if you do reach out,
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: you find someone that you're like, you know what, I
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: actually kind of like them. It's not like we want
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: to be best friends, but you're like, this is an
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: uncomfortable relationship. situation, but I'm as comfortable as I think
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: I could be. That's what we want to get. We
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: want to like vibe with them a little bit.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: What's maybe a question you would suggest asking or something
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: you would suggest looking for in that free consultation call
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: to know if this is the right or the wrong fit?
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: I'd come with some of your symptoms. And what I
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: mean by symptoms, what's bugging you? Like I'm having trouble
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: with work stress. I'm having trouble sleeping or my relationships.
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: Like what is it? Put it in your notes app.
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: And just say, hey, I'm looking at, like the last
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: time I got into therapy, I had lost like three
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: members of my family in three years. And I was like,
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: I'm dealing with a lot of grief and feeling really overwhelmed.
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: So that's what I did my consultation on. And just
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: wanted to see, I was like, do you work with
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: grief a lot? Ask the question. Then ask how much
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: they charge. You want to make sure you can afford this.
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: If it's not insurance coverage, we want to make sure
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: we can afford it. And then just see how they are.
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: Ask like, what do you like to work with most?
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: Or what are you most comfortable work? What type of
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: client are you looking for mostly? You know, ask those
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: types of questions to give them room to talk so
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: you can hear from them how they communicate about their
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: therapy practice. And something about that, for me at least,
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: helps me know if I'm in a vibe with them
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: or not.
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: And I'll just add one thing is I've had maybe
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: five or six therapists and something I wish I knew
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: early on was when I asked them a question like, man,
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: I'm really struggling with my dynamic with my friend. And
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: they're like, why? And I share why. In that response
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: to the why, do you feel like they understood what
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: you were saying? And do you feel like their answer
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: digging into it would help you.
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: Like, like the way a friend talks to me or
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: my mom talks to me, it feels like it's helping me.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: So like, do you feel like in that answer, it
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: was a good enough answer where you're like, Oh, they
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: understand me that quickly. Cause I think a good therapist
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: personality wise should be able to pick it up if
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: they're your vibe.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: And it would also mean that then you're going to
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: feel heard and understood in therapy, which is so important.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Awesome. We never ask our audience to like, follow, subscribe.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: You guys should do that.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: We like literally never ask. And we're like, guys, reviews
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: on podcasts are so important. Like Kevin and I.
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: Love this experience together and we love talking to therapists,
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: but like we can't do it unless people like review
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: us and rate us. So just like give us a
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: little love.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Subscribe to the show, follow, rate, review. Send it to
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: a friend who you think could really appreciate and love
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: this conversation.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Katie, thank you so much for coming on Free Therapy.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: We hope to see you soon.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Thanks, Katie. This was amazing. Appreciate you.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: And please, everybody go listen to Katie's podcast. Ask Katie anything. Yes.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: And check out her book. Yeah, it's on YouTube and
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: all the platforms. And I've loved watching all your content.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of fun, really deep. I just love
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: the way you really distill things down so clearly and beautifully.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: Love you guys.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: Thanks, Katie.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for listening. We appreciate you.
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: If you enjoyed this episode and us embarrassing ourselves and
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: talking about our feelings, you are definitely going to like
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: everything else.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Follow along on Instagram at freetherapy and we'll see you
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: next time.