Latest / Thrive A/F (After Forty) / Lever 8: Habits - The Longevity Loop | Thrive A/F Ep. 9
Transcript
- Lou Fratto: you've said you've said they design to be that way, right? I mean Producer KC: yeah. Lou Fratto: they're the programmers are clever. They know how to do it just to to spike that dopamine hit, you know, and it makes it addictive. They make it fun, they make it addictive. They're, you know, it's designed that way, so yeah, it's tough. Producer KC: Yeah. As we sit here and try to get people to engage with our digital content. Lou Fratto: Exactly. And obviously we're not very good at making it addictive. Producer KC: Wait. Lou Fratto: Yet. We're getting better. Producer KC: Welcome back, everybody, to the Thrive A/F Podcast. I am one of your hosts, Keith Calleja and I am one of the owners of CrossFit Terminus in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm here with my good friend, my partner, not in crime, but my partner, my partner in health. Lou Frato, Lou, say hello to Thrive Nation. Lou Fratto: Hey everybody, Lou Fratto here, physical therapist, longevity specialist, owner of Delray Care Physical Therapy, and author of the book Thrive, a Physical Therapist Guide to Longevity, which I guess that's what we're talking about, right? Producer KC: That is absolutely what we're talking about. So today is a milestone for us. This is the final episode of season one, unless we decide to do like a retrospective, but we are focusing on the final lever from your book, Lou, and that is habits, which is going to be a really interesting conversation because it kind of pulls together a whole lot of what we talked about across this first season. Lou Fratto: Yeah, you know, and kind of it a couple of thoughts come to mind. One is, man, it sure went fast. You know, I can't believe we're at the end of the of the first epis first season, if you will, the talking about the levers. But also we kind of established a habit of doing this now, right? Producer KC: Very good point. Very good point. Yeah. I mean and then there's a lot of things that kind of became part of a routine or part of the habits for the show. And it took some time to develop, but you're right. Like w I guess I guess we should figure out like how long when did we start? I don't even remember. How Lou Fratto: wow. Producer KC: is it three months ago? Four months? Yeah. Lou Fratto: off the top of my head, I don't even know. We'd have to go back and look. Producer KC: It's been a while, but it's been enough time for us to kind of get into a rhythm and hopefully Lou Fratto: Yeah. Producer KC: figure things out. So Getting learned a lot along the way. I know I learned a lot just from not only making the podcast, but by doing the podcast and by reading the book. So and for those of you that subscribe, hopefully you subscribe to our Substack. We actually sent out a recap email this week. So that is a nice guide to all the previous episodes. Gives a little bit of information about each one and what the topic was and has a link to the podcast. So if you're just new, this is your first episode, go ahead and check out our substack at Thrive-af.com and the first article there still depending on when you listen, but maybe I'll pin it so that it's always there, but is a recap of season one. So it's a great place to start or a great place to go back and look at if you missed any of the previous episodes. So Lou Fratto: Yeah, thank you for doing that. And once again, thank you for all of the work that you've done for all of this. You know, the the the Instagram account, the b the setting up the Substack, doing these podcasts, doing the Scorsese style editing that you do, you know, taking out all my bloopers and all that stuff. And I mean Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: I really appreciate it. And you know, people should know if that if this is their first. Podcast I listen to that you do this, this is part of your business, pescador consulting, right? So Producer KC: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, it's been fun. It's been a great learning experience and really, you know, I've really enjoyed the writing for the substack part of it. It's something I haven't got to do a whole lot of, you know, in the in the in the recent past, but it's been good and the collaboration has been really good. so hopefully that comes through in what we're doing and we'll keep it going into season two. Lou Fratto: Yeah, you know, and this is kind of going way out of order, I'm sure, but we like to shoot from the hip, right? Producer KC: Indeed. Lou Fratto: So, you know, if having an accountability buddy helps you with sticking to a habit, so we could call this pod making this podcast a habit, it's been a and also accountability buddy. I guess you could say helps you in two ways. One is you don't want to let down, so you're more likely to get your butt out of bed like we did today and be here at six forty five in the morning to do this. But number two, it's more fun, man. So it's been like Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: a ton of fun reconnecting with you like th what has it been? Like literally forty years since we first met. And Producer KC: Yeah. Yeah. Lou Fratto: and as we've said before, reconnecting with a lot of old friends too that have helped us along the way with like making logos like Walker White did and you know. Producer KC: Yep. Yeah. Lou Fratto: Stuff like that. So it's just been really cool. Producer KC: very much so speaking of logos look at this got Lou Fratto: Aha, nice. Producer KC: the Thrive AF Limited Edition first merch drop ever unfortunately not available Lou Fratto: Beautiful. Producer KC: yet to listeners but yeah look at that logo Lou Fratto: Is there any way you can show the back of it? What's the back look like? Producer KC: Alright, I will attempt to turn around without messing up everything and like pulling my headphones out. But actually I may have to drop my headphones for a minute. Hold on one second. Lou Fratto: Nice. For people who aren't done yet. Beautiful. Yeah, yeah, Producer KC: Did that work? I couldn't tell. Lou Fratto: you could see it. You had to kind of squint to see the part of the bottom, but Producer KC: Yeah. Well I w I don't wanna like turn around squat down and make a big deal out of it. But yeah, it's got the logo on the back, logo on the side. We are just merched up, man. This is really nice. Yeah. Lou Fratto: It looks like it fits good too, right? I s so that's like a athletic cut type of shirt, I think. Yes. Producer KC: It is a quality shirt. It's very soft, finest probably Egyptian cotton. I don't know. But it's it's very nice. I appreciate it. Lou Fratto: I will hopefully wear mine at the s next one. Mine is still being shipped to me. I'm not sure what happened to it from from Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: from start to finish, but it's supposedly still out there. Yeah. Producer KC: Eventually it'll hopefully make its way to either that or we'll see some random stranger who got it delivered to their Lou Fratto: Ha ha ha. Producer KC: house walking around in a only the the second Lou Fratto: Exactly. Producer KC: collector's edition Thrive AFT shirt. So Lou Fratto: And so yeah, maybe people can let us know in the comments if they like it or not, as we can change the design if we need to, or we can who Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: knows, maybe it'll motivate us to to get enough to start offering up to people that want you know. Producer KC: Yeah. We will have a small merch drop of some of another piece of merch and we'll debut that when it comes out. And I think that one could be something that we could send out to everybody if they want Lou Fratto: Yeah, sweet. Producer KC: to give us their address. But yeah, maybe I'll also post on Instagram an actual picture of the shirt and go from there. Lou Fratto: Get some votes on it. Producer KC: Yeah. All right. Cool, let's move ahead. So we already talked a little bit and dove into the subject of the podcast today, which is habits. So I'm gonna let you introduce the topic and you know talk about the main points that you wanna hit from the book and we will go from there. So do you wanna go ahead and kick it off? Why are habits so important? What's the big deal? Lou Fratto: Yes, yeah. Well, you know, the more the older I get, the more I feel like we are creatures of habit, you know. So in the book, I think I quote Wendy Wood or I give her credit for her study. She studied college kids and she found that forty-three percent of their daily actions were habitual. Right. But I I'd make the argument that it's even more than that because you could really expand the definition of of habits and say it's not just actions, but you could say it's mindset. You Producer KC: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: know, it's how much gratitude you you have. It's you know, whether you look at the world as a glass half full or half empty, you know, whether you approach things with skepticism or, you know, do you give the new person the benefit of the doubt? And I think all of that is habitual and that you can you can actually change it if you want. Producer KC: Yeah, no, I agree. And I wonder if there's like an age related factor, like you said, as we get older. So, you know, does that percentage maybe increase as we get older? just because we find maybe hopefully gravitate towards the habits that actually work and that are productive and put some effort and some intentionality behind trying to break the habits that are not beneficial to us and maybe, you know, as we get older we spend a little bit more time doing that. I don't know. There's probably I don't know if there's any like research behind that, but it just feels like one of those things where I know for myself, I've think that I've gotten better. In fact I know I've gotten better as I've gotten older, trying to make habits and routines out of the things that actually, you know, either make me healthier or that are just beneficial overall. So it's a learned behavior I guess in some ways. Some of it's instinctual, but maybe there's some learning behavior there. Lou Fratto: Yeah, you could almost call it like wisdom. You know, as you get Producer KC: Right. Lou Fratto: wiser, maybe you lean more into the positive habits, you know, make bit different decisions. Producer KC: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Hopefully that's that's the way that you're progressing over time. So I think another topic you talked about in the book was this the idea of the law of inertia and how does that relate to to habits and forming good habits. Lou Fratto: Yeah, I mean I think it's it's so true. It's like if you think of the law of inertia in terms of physics, you know, it's it's basically says that an object at rest tends to stay at rest, and an object in motion tends to stay in motion. And with using that analogy, with trying to start a new behavior or a new action or a new thought thought process, it it's hard to get it started, you know. and then Once you get it started and get through maybe the first two phases, which let me give, let me give the proper credit that's due, how Elrod came up with this. And he said phase one, he called it unbearable, phase two, uncomfortable, and then phase three, unstoppable. And the reason that phase three is unstoppable is because now you're an object theoretically in motion, and so it's easier to keep going than it is to actually stop. So, you know, it's just tough. Most people are gonna quit in the first if they're gonna quit, they're gonna quit in phase one or phase two because that's the difficult part. Producer KC: And it's kinda like once you get over that hump it becomes a lot easier to just continue to keep that habit going and rolling. Okay. Lou Fratto: Yeah. And you actually if you don't do your whatever your habit is, you feel weird. If something feels amiss, you know, and you're like, you know, I'd rather do this than not do it. Producer KC: Yeah. Well, it's a good point. I mean, you mentioned offhand that we're recording this episode of the podcast early morning because of schedules, but you know, that kind of broke my habitual routine of of going to the gym early and I definitely Lou Fratto: Mm-hmm. Producer KC: feel it, you know. when I have something like events during a week that kind of break that routine up, you know, I kind of feel it feels off, but Lou Fratto: Yeah. Producer KC: You know, which is I guess is a good sign that the habit that I've created for when I go to the gym and how often I go is is pretty ingrained because I've been doing it for fifteen years or whatever. So But it doesn't take fifteen Lou Fratto: Yeah. Producer KC: years to build a good habit. But that's just let's be clear on that. Lou Fratto: No, but but boy, by the time you've done it for fifteen years, that groove is really deep. You know, if you think of a habit Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: as a a groove formed by water going down a hill, you know, the the more you do it, the deeper that groove is, the harder it is for that water to veer off and go a separate groove. so man, you got a deep groove with that. Producer KC: Yeah, yeah, indeed. i i i it's there's good and there's bad because it's great that it's a deep groove, but then when situations come up where I have to get out of that groove, it's difficult for me to to do it differently. So like when I think about like today, if I can't go in the morning, I could go in the afternoon, but that's not that's not part of my habit Lou Fratto: Right. Producer KC: and that's not part of my routine. And it becomes more difficult for me to get the motivation to do something at a certain time just because I'm so used to doing it. So maybe there's Lou Fratto: I know. Producer KC: a that potential small downside to habits is I don't know. There needs to be some level of flexibility if you, you know, need to adjust. Maybe I'm not great at that part of it, but Lou Fratto: Yeah, or you get frustrated, you know, like, man, I can't Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: do what I was supposed to do today. And then it just builds up some frustration that's really, Producer KC: That is a really good point. Lou Fratto: you know, that you really would rather not have in your life. but but they say that, you know, so this kind of bridges the other topic of if you do miss a day, try not to miss more than one day. You know, so if you're first of all, the more consistent you are, the easier it is to keep up with it. So if you're doing something every day. That's l a little easier than say twice a week or whatever. But Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: but if you do miss a day, get back on the horse right away. Don't don't miss two days, because it's just easier to get get back into it the shorter you make your absence, you know. Producer KC: That makes sense. And I would imagine that is probably important as you're trying to build the habit as well, right? Like that c Lou Fratto: Yeah. Producer KC: element of consistency is probably a big part of building that habit initially. And maybe once you get in a deep groove, you can handle those little aberrations a little bit better. But it's a good point. another thing that was that you talked about in your book, I think, was the was willpower and how it's kind of think of it as a resource. Do you want to talk about that a bit? Lou Fratto: Yeah, so you could think of it really you could make the argument both ends of the spectrum. One you could say willpower is finite. And on the other side of the coin, you could also make the argument and say willpower is infinite. And so Producer KC: Uh-huh. Lou Fratto: if you were making the finite argument, you'd say maybe look at it on a daily basis and say, okay, you know, every decision that you have to make that's a little difficult, you know, where you encounter some resistance. Maybe in your head, that voice in your head is telling you to do take the easy way out. And you have to overcome it and make the right decision. You know, that's gonna deplete your daily willpower like a like the battery in your cell phone, Producer KC: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: you know. And so you could say the reason that habits are so beneficial is because you're on autopilot. You're not making that decision, you're just doing it. And so then you're conserving willpower for the rest of the day to maybe, you know, make some other decisions that come up. But on the other hand, you could say, well, willpower is also infinite as long as you have a strong enough why or a strong enough reason to be doing what you're doing. So you could take. Navy SEALs, for example, you know, they're gonna make it through Hell Week and endure whatever it is they have to endure because they wanna be a SEAL that bad enough or they wanna save people's lives or whatever. So you could make both ends of the spectrum really. Producer KC: Yeah. Well it's an interesting, I guess, just concept in general and thinking about willpower as that resource is a little bit of a like a mindset shift as well. And maybe recognizing it, especially again as you're trying to build those healthy habits, helps you focus and, you know, deal with times when your willpower might not be as strong and kind of understanding that in some ways it's finite, but you know, you can tap into that reserve ideally when you need it to kind of get over that hump and get to the point where the habit becomes more ingrained. So Lou Fratto: Yeah, so visualizing your future self is one way to kind of give yourself a why. You know, so you could say, Producer KC: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: all right, let me visualize my ideal self, ideal version of myself in 10 years. Okay, what decisions and actions do I have to take now in order to get me there? And then by practicing visualizing that self and kind of keeping it in your forefront of your mind, you now practice or further ingrain having that reason for doing what you're doing, but also you develop a greater association between your present self and your future self. Producer KC: Okay, that's a good practice. I hadn't really thought about that individualization part of it as as part of the habit forming process, but that's a really good way to maybe, like you said, add another element to the motivation and to the willpower piece by having a vision of where you wanna go and where you wanna get to. Maybe even writing it down or just, you know, having it there so that you can easily tap into that. Lou Fratto: Yeah, have I told you about the FMRI study yet? Well, I mean I know I haven't. That's so that was a very that was a very amateuristic amateur cue cueing there to cue up the so Producer KC: It's loaded question. Way to set yourself up. Tell me about this fMRI study, Lou. That Lou Fratto: there I just showed my my neophyte podcast person there. Producer KC: Hey, whatever it takes, man. Lou Fratto: Clinton, you cut this part out. Producer KC: No. Lou Fratto: you never cut anything I ask out. That's what well, all right. So this could get even worse, okay, because this story Producer KC: It's the best part of the podcast. Okay. Lou Fratto: is really complicated and hard to explain. And I that's not my forte, is explaining complicated stories. So you're gonna have to help me. Producer KC: I disagree. I disagree. You do a good job. Lou Fratto: Hey man, you're the journalism major, so help me out with Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: this, okay? All right, so first of all, I guess I should explain what an FMRI is. But pr I think pretty much most people know what it is, but just just in case. Producer KC: I do not know what it is. Lou Fratto: all right. So it's basically a functional MRI. So what they do is they put people in this type of MRI and they can have you do a particular action, for example, and then they look at what part of the brain lights up when you do that action and say, okay, that part of the brain is associated with that action. They can also have you visualize something or have a thought and they go, okay, that part of the brain is associated with that that thought or that visualization. Okay, so that's the FMRI. So what they did was they took people and they put them in the FMRI and they said, okay, visualize your current self. And so when that particular part of the brain lit up, they said, All right, we're gonna label this part of the brain your current self, part of the brain. Producer KC: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: And then they s now visualize a stranger. And so when that particular part of the brain lit up, they labeled that the stranger part of the brain. Okay, so does that make sense so far? Producer KC: Okay. Yeah. Lou Fratto: All right, then they took the same people and they said, now visualize your future self, what it's gonna what your future self is going to be like in 10 years. Okay, so then in some people, their stranger part of the brain lit up when they visualize their future self. But in the other people, their current self part of the brain lit up when they visualize their. Future self. Producer KC: Okay, I think I know where this is going. Lou Fratto: All right, so then they took those people and they measured their willpower and their ability to delay instant gratification. And what they found was the people whose current self and future self was the same part of the brain tended to have greater willpower or the greater ability to delay instant gratification. Producer KC: And the conclusions from that study are? Lou Fratto: Well, they theorize that it's because those people have a stronger association between their current self and their future self. So in other words, the decisions and the actions that they take now, they could extrapolate it to how it's going to affect their future self better. As opposed to maybe, again, theoretically, the people who didn't, maybe they don't think they don't link the future as strongly with their present actions. it's just a theory, but it's interesting, right? Producer KC: Yeah, very interesting. I mean the fact that they could see such a difference between those two types of people and then maybe tie it back even theoretically to some aspect of willpower or I don't know. I mean it almost I I don't wanna, you know, obviously interpret a study that I've never read or never heard of. But almost like that ability to connect and and believe that they could achieve something that would get them to that point in the future was missing from part of that group. Whether that's will power or just lack of I don't know, some level of imagination or belief in self. Sounds like a really interesting piece of work. Maybe we'll we'll put a link to that in the show notes for people that want to dig into it and kind of see the results of the study. But that's really Yeah. Lou Fratto: Yeah, it's just trying to Yeah, trying to show the association between visualizing your future self and your current self. But it's in ch it's thought provoking anyway. Producer KC: Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And you did a good job of explaining it. So nice nicely done. Yeah. Lou Fratto: We'll see. We'll see what the audience says. Please give us comments. Producer KC: the other so moving back, I guess, to the to the idea of habits and creating habits and what makes successful at it. the idea of removing friction is one of the things that we wanted to talk about. So do you want to kind of introduce that concept and we talk about it a little bit? Lou Fratto: Yeah, so if getting started is the hardest part, you know, you wanna there are some things that they've discovered that make it a little bit easier to get going and then to ensure that you keep it going. One is this I have to kind of look at my notes here because there's a lot of different people I want to give credit, but BJ Fogg says, you know, take away the element of choice. So if you combine that with Charles Doohig, who says, okay, a habit for ma a habit formation is a cue, the action and then the reward. Producer KC: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: Set up the cue, you know. So let's say you want to start, I don't know, running or walking in the morning. Maybe put your clothes and your shoes, you know, right there beside your bed or on the dresser so that that's the first thing you see and you know, okay, that's what I'm putting on in the morning. So you don't have to choose. And then that's that's your cue to help you get going. The other thing you could do is start off really small. You know, you don't go from zero to a thousand the first day, you know. So if you've never worked out, don't try to work out for two hours your first day. You know, maybe you just go and let's say you're walking, maybe you just walk five minutes the first night or ten minutes, and then that gets the ball rolling, and then you just gradually increase it. Producer KC: I think it reinforces something that we've talked about since episode one, which is the idea of what you were just talking about is making small incremental changes is a big part of, you know, our philosophy, I guess, or you know, the underpinnings of your book. And the idea of positioning these things as levers and the i is the is is the idea that you don't have to make huge changes and huge you know, pulling these levers don't make it a huge thing, but start with small incremental changes that add up over time is really the key to creating consistency. So I think that re you know, that point reinforces everything that we have been talking about and comes up almost every time we do one of these episodes because it's a core element of of what we're trying to what we're trying to understand ourselves and get people to understand, right? Lou Fratto: Yeah, you almost want to make it so small that you can't fail. You know, just just Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: all you gotta do is just a little bit. James Clear, who wrote the book Atomic Habits, he says you can also stack habits too, which I think is really clever, you know. So Producer KC: Is that stacking them like in a chain or doing multiple things at once, you know, that that reinforce multiple habits? When you talk about stacking. Okay. Lou Fratto: I think it's more like more like in a chain of events. So like let's say you brush your teeth every morning, right? Which most people do. So then you might say, Okay, I'm gonna brush my teeth and immediately after that I'm gonna stretch. And Producer KC: Okay. Lou Fratto: so now it's just that becomes part linked to the part of the habit that you already have. So it's just easier Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: to get it going and keep it going. Producer KC: Yeah. And I was thinking about the difference, you know, if there's a difference between like a habit and a routine, and maybe a routine is just a series of habits kind of stacked together that at the end of it, you know, ideally is something that leads you to that reward that you're trying to that you're trying to produce. So the idea of friction too, I think is is a good one because I th have thought about that a lot in trying to put together the habits and the routines that make me successful with whatever I'm trying to do. And it also was something that we talked about a lot in my last job. because we did a lot of process oriented stuff and had a lot of procedures because we wanted to create repeatable outcomes. And because I worked in finance, there was also an element of if something went wrong, we had to retrace those steps and a way to keep things from going wrong was to create routines. and to optimize those routines, we talked a lot about removing friction points. Because you know, the good thing about a routine is that one of the good things is it produces predictable results. The bad thing can be that it slows things down. And we are trying to do things quickly and efficiently, removing friction, whatever those steps are, can be a big part of it. So, you know, like you talked about putting your clothes out the night before, and I think about the routine or the habits that I've put together to try and make myself more consistent is part of it is yeah, like remove all the little speed bumps and the little friction points that get you to a point where you're where you want to be just increases the likelihood of success exponentially. So you don't have the small excuse to say, my gym clothes aren't clean or I don't have the right sneakers or I forgot to put the coffee you know together last night or I can't find my keys. I can't find my wallet. Like whatever you can do to to prepare yourself to to do the thing that you really want to do beforehand and remove those little speed bumps, I think your your chances of success go up exponentially. Lou Fratto: Yeah, that brings up another point too. I think the legal term is bright lines. You Producer KC: Okay. Lou Fratto: know, so when when they draw up a contract, you know, attorneys say establish bright lines and be very clear with your, you know, instructions and limitations and what you want the person to agree to. And this you know, so the same thing is helpful when you're establishing a habit. So in other words, it's more it's actually easier to do something a hundred percent than to say, okay, I'm gonna do it ninety percent of the time. Because like you said, if you do it a hundred percent, now you've el eliminated completely that little choice that becomes a point of friction and difficult, you know? So Producer KC: Yeah. No. That makes sense. accountability buddy is something that you kind of talked about when we were when we were talking about the podcast itself, but I think that's another thing that can help really reinforce positive habits if you have somebody that you can basically combine willpower with in a certain way, seems to be a a really good practice as well when you're trying to build a new habit. Lou Fratto: Yeah, you could be w maybe you're training. I know when I was training for a half marathon, you know, there's mornings. We the only time we could do it was really early in the morning and there was a couple of mornings where it was like raining or something. And you're like Producer KC: my god, yeah. Lou Fratto: your voice in your head's going, man, wouldn't it just be nice to just stay in bed and and you visualize your training partner out there w waiting in the rain for you, you know, you you get your butt up. You know. Producer KC: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well it's yeah, I mean you can alm almost like b borrow some of their willpower to get you over the hump. It's a big Lou Fratto: Mm. Producer KC: like I I think I've mentioned before my wife does a swimming challenge in the summer, where you cu accumulate at least forty miles and there's a group, she has a very strong accountability group there and sometimes you know, it could be tough to get out the door and get everything together because there's even more than going to the gym, you know, there's things that you need to that she needs to put together in order to go have a good swim. And having those accountability partners in that effort is a big is a big motivating factor for her. So I see it almost every day. It's really Yeah. Lou Fratto: No, you didn't tell me about that. That's awesome though. Where does where do they do the swimming at? Producer KC: So we're members at a at a pool here that's an outdoor pool Lou Fratto: Okay. Producer KC: and it's it's a nice like social environment for us. So it has kind of a dual purpose. It's a great way to get out of the house in the summer where you feel like just, you know, kind of relaxing at the end of the day. and yeah, the forty mile challenge is a big motivating factor for her from a fitness standpoint in the summer. And it helps that their reward is they get a different like little well, not little. piece of, you know, swag or equipment at the end of the year. So a gym bag, a hoodie, and then, you know, Lou Fratto: Nice. Producer KC: you could see everybody at the pool, that has completed the challenge, you know, wearing their thing at the end of the season or in the next season. So yeah, it's really neat. She just actually Lou Fratto: That's like Producer KC: finished fifty miles, so she went above and beyond. Yeah, this summer. So Lou Fratto: Nice. That's a great idea. Whoever thought of that, kudos to them. What a great way Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: to get people going and get some healthy actions going. Producer KC: Yeah, it's awesome. And like the lap swimmers at the pool are just really really great group of folks and and have been really involved in kind of the administration maintenance of the whole thing. So it's it's really nice. You can Lou Fratto: When do they do it? Is it in the morning or? Producer KC: do it whenever you want. You have to reserve a lane So, you know, if she does a lot in the morning and a lot in the evenings. and the morning Lou Fratto: Yeah. Wow. Producer KC: swims are hard sometimes because You know, it's not like we get hot up here in the summer, obviously like right now it's it's quite hot. But at the beginning of the season, at the end of the season, the water can be pretty cold. So, you know, they gotta really Lou Fratto: Mm-hmm. Producer KC: tap into that willpower reserve to to get in and do it. Lou Fratto: I was gonna say because I have often thought how great swimming would be. You know, it's such a great activity for your endurance and it's you Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: know, doesn't load the joints, et cetera, et cetera. But man, you talk about friction for me to get started is you know, one is I hate cold water. And two, I I don't I I just getting up in the morning, which would be the only time to do it, getting wet. Driving Producer KC: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: to the pool and driving back with a wet swimsuit, you know, got a wet towel around you. It just keeps me from doing it. You know. Producer KC: Yeah, well you you might have to get started with small little increments, you Lou Fratto: Yeah. Producer KC: know, and try and work it. Yeah Lou Fratto: If I ever did it, I would enlist Dana to help me out. She could call me and say, Lou, are you are did you do it today? Producer KC: Well, you know. Yeah, you could get her ac you know, give her access to Life three sixty or something. She could track you. Lou Fratto: no. Producer KC: you know, you I don't see you at the pool. Lou Fratto: Funny enough, you were at the bar last night. Producer KC: Yeah, right. Yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah, I mean I mean I've I have my own limitations to it. I've I've said maybe I'll do it this summer a couple of times, but I just I don't have it in me yet. Maybe next summer will be if we're still doing the podcast, maybe I can make that one of my challenges that we can talk about on the podcast. See how Lou Fratto: That's a great, Producer KC: I do. Lou Fratto: great challenge. And one of the things we're doing, a the shark fighter, Doug, who we've all heard about, if you've heard other podcasts, he wants me to do a tough mudder in Producer KC: Okay. Lou Fratto: February that's gonna be in Austin. So the there is potential for it to be cold. And it's because Producer KC: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: his son Grant wants to do one. And so I have agreed to it, but part of it is a little bit you know, scary for me because it could be very cold in Austin that time of year. And the w the f one of the obstacles that you have to do is to jump in thirty four degree water. And they put a four by four across the top with with barbed wire on the top so you have to s fully submerge and go under and and it's just the right depth where you can kinda walk through it. So, you know, it it takes for it feels like forever to get through it. And so that's always Producer KC: wow. Lou Fratto: my my biggest Achilles heel with that with that ve event Producer KC: Wow. Well you might have to train for it. I don't know where you're gonna find thirty four degree water in Florida, but I guess cold plunge is the only way to do it. Lou Fratto: Yeah, I'm I'm okay with just taking a a minute in the shower with cold water. That's about all I can I can do. Producer KC: Fair enough. All right, let's get back to habits. the idea of a keystone habit is something that you talked about or that you wanted to to cover. Do you want to talk about that a little Lou Fratto: Yeah, that's good because what you could do is just what it's saying is just visualize what action or decision, consistent decision that if you start doing now will have the greatest impact on your health and your longevity. Producer KC: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: And and that way you crystallize it in your head and then try to go for it and that's gonna give you the best bang for your buck, you know, because it's the gonna have the most effect on your health. Producer KC: Okay. So then you make that almost the central focus and then I don't know if this is part of the idea, but you could have other habits that kind of support and ladder up to that main goal. And it goes back Lou Fratto: Yeah. Producer KC: maybe to that idea of kind of stacking habits together. Lou Fratto: Right, synergistic and that it goes back to what we've said all along that all of these levers that we talked about and that I talk about in the book, they help they help each other. And the the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. So if you're if you're tending to s do the other fundamentals pretty well and you're pulling the other levers, you're gonna be more likely to stick with good habits and make the decision to do good habits as well. Producer KC: Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. All right. What about the flip side of habits? If you know that you have some negative habits that you maybe want to get rid of, are there any kind of strategies that you identified or talked about in the book that are ways to maybe reduce the the bad habits while you try to improve the good ones? Lou Fratto: Yeah. So I think one thing you could start off would be like, okay, just thinking in your mind, okay, if I continue to do this, how's it going to affect me in five years or ten years? Producer KC: Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: You know, and so that can be very I mean, I I know we both, you and I both we'd rather be motivated by positive things than negative Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: things, but that can be a very powerful motivator when you just visualize, okay, wow, that this could happen to me if I keep doing this. but then also it's sort of do the opposite of what you do to establish good habits. So if you want to make these habits as hard to continue as possible. So instead of putting them right in your face, try to make them invisible, so to speak. So let's say you want to decrease your screen time on your phone, you know, and let's say you're in the habit of doing it in the middle of the night when you wake up or maybe before you go to bed, then hey, take the phone and put it in the laundry room and plug it in there, you know, so it's just Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: that much harder for you to to do it. also you could change your environment. Like maybe if there's a certain restaurant that you go to and every time you go there, man, you just gotta have that pe that d awesome dessert that they have and the waiter brings the cart around after dinner, you know, and you just can't resist it. Hey, maybe you gotta take a break from the restaurant for a while. You know? Producer KC: Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. I think you and I are both fans of Cal Newport and his his podcast Lou Fratto: Yeah. Producer KC: and his books and I know he a big focus of what he has been doing is around digital detoxification essentially. And so if people want to check that out, we'll put a link to the show notes. But I found that podcast to be I haven't read any I haven't read any of his books yet, but that's a lot of the focus that he does as well. That idea of kinda taking your phone and putting it somewhere, even during the day, like one of his things is keep your phone plugged in. during the day if you're constantly, you know, looking at your phone while you're doing other things and you'd be surprised. But those like those habits seem very v difficult to break, like changing your your digital your your life and your relationship with with technology on the negative side is seems like something a lot of people struggle with but his stuff is really good. Lou Fratto: Well, you've said you've said they design to be that way, right? I mean Producer KC: yeah. Lou Fratto: they're the programmers are clever. They know how to do it just to to spike that dopamine hit, you know, and it makes it addictive. They make it fun, they make it addictive. They're, you know, it's designed that way, so yeah, it's tough. Producer KC: Yeah. As we sit here and try to get people to engage with our digital content. Lou Fratto: Exactly. And obviously we're not very good at making it addictive. Yet. We're getting better. There's a there's a subliminal message popping up, you Producer KC: Wait. Lou Fratto: know, right there. You just can't see it. Producer KC: Phase two. Don't worry, you must have the content. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Producer KC: At least we're not selling anything yet until we get the merch. Exactly. Lou Fratto: Right. At least it's all free, exactly. Can't can't blame us for trying to we've already bugged our family and friends to the point of, you know, it's probably it's having a negative effect. Producer KC: Yeah, it's all good. All right. We gotta wrap up here in a few minutes. so is there anything else you wanna do quick hits on before we move into kind of the closing arguments? Lou Fratto: Well, I forgot to say that it is it's helpful to replace a negative habit with a positive habit. You know, so if we're creatures of habit, just try to replace it and insert a positive habit instead, you know, so that that helps. which really I think we do that anyway, you know, if you stop doing one thing, you you Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: just end up replacing it with something else, whether you know it or not. But it's helpful to be sort of more aware and be able to make a educated choice, you know. I talked about decade guidance a little bit, you know. So in your twenties and forties, you wanna build the foundations, you know, for movement, nutrition, sleep discipline, et cetera. When you get in your forties Producer KC: Hopefully what we're doing right here and talk the things we're talking about right here, right? Those same levers. Lou Fratto: Yeah, and then forties and sixties just keep optimizing those and then sixties just keep doing it, you know. So just it's Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: easier to keep doing something you've always been doing, so keep on trucking. But I talk about it more detail in the book. Producer KC: Okay, cool. did you wanna quickly go through any of the questi those those sort of helpful questions to ask yourself if you're trying to work through and build and build strong habits? You had a list of them in the bottom of the show notes. Mm-hmm. Lou Fratto: Yeah, so we talked about the Keystone habit. the other one, we also talked about the future self, sort of visualize yourself Producer KC: Yep. Lou Fratto: and what kind of person you'd be in five to ten years if you were to Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: install these habits. sleep, how can you habitualize your sleep hygiene routine? Producer KC: Yep. Lou Fratto: stress management, how can you install mindfulness maybe as a habit to help with that? some other ideas, social connection, you know, what regular outing can you establish? to make sure you stay connected with your friends and others. I have plenty of patients, you know, every Tuesday they have lunch with the the boys or lunch with the girls and it just it's Producer KC: Yeah. Lou Fratto: their habit and it keeps them engaged. Producer KC: Yeah. Cool. Lou Fratto: Yeah. That's pretty much it. Producer KC: and I think I added one about, you know, maybe think about a current routine that you have that maybe you're trying to build a new habit or optimize an existing habit and think about those friction points and what are some small things that you might be able to do that would chip away at anything that prevents you from doing it and make small changes. Once again, like back to I know we talk about it all the time, but small incremental changes having impacts over time is a big part of this. So Lou Fratto: Yeah, that's how it impacts longevity is really it's it's it you are what you repeatedly do. And so if you just make these small decisions on a consistent basis over the years, they really, really add up and it's exponential. If you improve one percent every year, you know, it compounds on itself. So it's really powerful. Producer KC: Yeah. Yeah. Well and the other I mean topic that we talk about or the concept we talk about pretty all the time and I I noticed this as I was going back and creating that recap email is just the consistency part of all of this is key, you know, and it it's common sense advice and you hear it from a lot of places, but really like the effect that we're that that you're trying to get and and longevity specifically, such a huge part of that is consistency. And creating good habits is a big, big part of of driving that consistency over time. So it's really important. Whew. All right, man. We did it. Lou Fratto: Yeah. Well said. The hardest part is coming up. Producer KC: That's right. Yeah. But before we get to that, we'll do a we'll do quick plugs, Lou Fratto: yeah yeah. Producer KC: do quick plugs and shout-outs. So for plugs, Lou Fratto: yeah. Producer KC: hopefully everybody has heard this before. But you know, please check out our Substack, subscribe to our Substack and find us on Instagram. I'll put links in the show notes. Our season two, kind of as we move into that, which is hopefully is you know gonna roll right into it, is gonna be about bringing new folks on and helping grow the podcast. So we're gonna keep asking our county. Current listeners to share and subscribe to all our stuff. And yeah, looking forward to it. So do you want to move into shout-outs? Lou Fratto: Yeah, I'm excited about that because I think it's gonna be fun talking with different people, you know. So Producer KC: Yeah, it is. Lou Fratto: but I have to give a shout out to my wife who had a birthday August twenty-seventh. Producer KC: Yay. Lou Fratto: So happy birthday, Susan. Thank you for being you and for being born. Love you. Producer KC: that's sweet. Yeah, that's awesome, man. Happy birthday, Susan. I wish that w we could have been there to celebrate together, but you know, at some point we'll get everybody together and and we'll we'll just catch up on all the birthdays and Lou Fratto: Awesome. Producer KC: things that we weren't being but I've got a couple birthdays to shout out as well. so Lou Fratto: All right. Producer KC: a couple coaches from CrossFit Terminus. Coach Madison Levy goes by Maddie. Happy birthday, Maddie. She's awesome, fun, great coach. another coach, Lanier. she has a challenging last name that I don't know how to pronounce, so I'm not even gonna try it, but happy birthday, Coach Lanier, another great coach. and we have a Terminus member and one of our OGs from Terminus named Sarah Hardy. She was a player on my volleyball team for a few s few seasons. she's been there almost just for a very long time, kind of a one of the pillars of the community. Also really good. She manages a lot of the media that we put on the terminus social media site. So I wish I had her skills in Lou Fratto: nice. Hmm. Producer KC: production. She is fantastic. and I think your big brother from our fraternity days had a birthday, didn't he? Lou Fratto: Yeah, Lance, that's right. He did. Good old Lance. Producer KC: Yeah. Happy birthday, Lance. You better be listening. Now we'll know. If if he is not listening, Lou Fratto: Right. Producer KC: we'll know that he is slacking off. So I think that's Lou Fratto: Perfect. Producer KC: it. Cool. All right, buddy. Season one. That's a wrap, unless we do our recap episode. But for now, about to say we did it. And we're ready to do the final part of the puzzle, the sign off. We're gonna Yes, Lou Fratto: All right, let's do it. Let's get this one right. Producer KC: let's do it. All right. Here we go. You ready? Alright. Until next time. Lou Fratto: Keep challenging yourself. Producer KC: Keep growing and keep thriving AF. Lou Fratto: And keep thriving AF. A what's better. Producer KC: It was Yep. Keep Thriving, yeah. Lou Fratto: Probably the best yet. Producer KC: Yeah, definitely the best yet. So but still the best is yet to come. So congratulations, man. It's been fun. We made it all the way through the book, but people Lou Fratto: Yeah. Producer KC: should still pick it up and read it 'cause there's so much more in there than we were able to talk about on the podcast. So I think that's it. Have a great day. Good to talk to you as usual. Lou Fratto: Yeah, it has been fun. Producer KC: Happy birthday, Susan. And we'll be back next time. Lou Fratto: All right. Take care, man. Thanks again. Producer KC: Alright buddy, see ya, bye.