Latest / Marketing Shed / Why Covering a Logo Made Levi's Stronger
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- Warren Fiveash: Happy sunny day. Paul, how you doing? Paul Duxbury: Yes, I am I am ⁓ I'm a little fatigued today. I was in Switzerland in Basel on Tuesday and Wednesday. And ⁓ it's a great, great pleasure. I was delivering some ⁓ training to some marketeers ⁓ from Roche about strategic presence and influencing. But just the the one hour makes a difference because you know, you have to get up that extra hour. hour early and ⁓ then you then you're you're doing a bit of prep in the evening and all that stuff. And then I was up super early today. so yeah, I'm feeling a bit fatigued. I mean there's still lots of excitement, but I'm just a little bit ragged at the edges, yeah. Warren Fiveash: A little bit drained. Have you got have you got a weekend or you can chill out a bit or not? Are you gonna be working you're gonna be working the midnight a little? Paul Duxbury: ⁓ well yes, because I've got some holiday coming up starting Thursday. I think I'm gonna have to put a shift in ⁓ this weekend. So I have got activities planned, and of course it's Father's Day, as we know. ⁓ so so I've got stuff stuff with the family. ⁓ but yeah, it's gonna be a busy weekend. But but the thing is you can sleep you can sleep when you're dead, Warren. So it's all right. Warren Fiveash: Nice. Yes, yeah. Exactly, exactly. There's plenty of time for rest, isn't there? I mean, saying that, gotta make sure you know you don't overdo it. But ex exactly. It's it's all good stuff, right? Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Yeah. And how how about you? Are are you are you ⁓ super chilled out and and and relaxed? Warren Fiveash: I'm a bit chilled. I'm looking forward to the warm weekend, hopefully, with the family. ⁓ it's been there's been a lot going on with myself as well. Actually, I'm in the midst of doing the judging for the Marketing Week Awards, so online. So doing the online part of that, which is really super interesting and great. There's a lot. There's a lot to go through. ⁓ I feel very privileged actually to read through a lot of them. They're they're really good. And then we've got the Paul Duxbury: ⁓ get you. Warren Fiveash: the the the in person judging in a couple of weeks. So enjoying that just a lot to fit around doing that in the evenings and then not working the day. So it's busy, it's busy, but it's all good. And then there's the World Cup, right? So ⁓ been enjoying that as well while I can catch games and stuff. So Paul Duxbury: Yes. Is it is it a sin that that ⁓ I I missed the first half of the match on Wednesday 'cause I was coming back from the airport and then I decided I would go to bed on the grounds that I was knackered and ⁓ whether I was awake or not, the result would be the result. Warren Fiveash: Yeah do you know what? It's not a sin. ⁓ I was coming back from in the last Euros I was coming back from ⁓ Benedome ⁓ long story there, for another day maybe. From Benedor in a bus, we're going to the airport while England were playing Slovenia I think and we were on the verge of going out and Bellingham scored in the last minute over a kick and I was trying to listen to it the f on the on my phone or watch it on my phone so it's not a sin. Paul Duxbury: ⁓ Warren Fiveash: Things happen, boy, life gets in the way. There'll be other games. There'll be other games. Yeah. Yeah. And just on that note, So have you watched any of the World Cup pool? Have you been for catching any of it? Paul Duxbury: Yes. There will be other games. I agree. I agree. I I watched the 10 minute highlights of England for Croatia 2, and I watched through the sort of side of my eyes, because it was on a screen in a bar. I watched a bit of ⁓ West Germany. I keep saying West Germany. Shows how old I am. ⁓ Germany versus Curacao. ⁓ so I think I left that one when they were three one ahead. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. He's returned yeah. Paul Duxbury: ⁓ which obviously I think it finished seven one, didn't it? Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a bit of a bit of a pasting, isn't it? It's in Yeah, I've watched quite a lot of it actually. The the must admit, and I know a lot of people have spoken about this, there's probably nothing you need to say on it, but the hydration brakes are well they're not hydration brakes, they're advertising brakes, really. They're they're just bizarre. You know, like you've got games that are played in air conditioning stadiums and you've got hydration brakes of twenty three minutes and it's so obvious what what what the game is in that a FIFA just trying to make money. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Yeah. How about you? Well, h hang on. So so you're you're suggesting that FIFA cynically ⁓ have taken advantage of the ⁓ ostensible nature of the conditions ⁓ to schedule more advertising breaks. Is that what you're saying? Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Maybe. I might be saying that. Yeah, I might be saying that, Paul. I think ⁓ is it stretch? Is it stretch? Paul Duxbury: How? I mean it's just seems completely out of character for that organization, but but ⁓ you know, you're you're you're better judged than me. Warren Fiveash: Ha ha ha. We Well, you know, we when we kick this ⁓ podcast off, I think we ⁓ the subject matter was FIFA actually in one of our first ones and the launch of this World Cup, so we've come full circle a little bit. But yeah, I'm being cynical but it does feel like it's not I think that's when, you know, advertising can overstep the mark when it's kind of it's dipping into the actual game itself and really disrupting it and ⁓ it does feel like that's a step too far to me. ⁓ in terms of Paul Duxbury: Yes, although th the the irony is of course, if you're ⁓ from the US, it probably feels like there's fewer adverts than you usually get because they're used to games that get interrupted every forty five seconds, I think, with ⁓ breaks. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, no, you're right. And I should say I don't think our broadcasters are ITV, obviously the BC aren't, but the IT V aren't advertising in that break. I think they might have the advertising competitions and things. And they don't go to an ad break. So fair play to them, but I mean maybe what maybe at the next World Cup they will, I don't know. But yeah, it's interesting. And ⁓ did you see as well, Paul, did you see that great Paul Duxbury: ⁓ yeah. Warren Fiveash: Example. So one of the things they can't do, ironically, at these stadiums, because they've got lots of sponsors and advertisers that they are linked to FIFA, they can't have the sponsors for the stadium that are on these American stadiums featured on on the stadium. So there's there's I think there's one for Mercedes, like the Mercedes Stadium, I can't remember what the stadium's called. There's a Levi's sponsorship. Did you see the Levi's logo get covered over with ⁓ you know, ⁓ a sheet kind of Paul Duxbury: Right. Warren Fiveash: Can't remember exactly what it was, but it got covered over. But Levi's, to their credit, used that really well because what you could see was the distinctive shape of the Levi's Yeah. Paul Duxbury: ⁓ these sort of w how'd you describe it? Sort like a bat wing type. Yeah. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah, like a Batwing and they've used that and they've put that kind of ⁓ covered over version of their logo as all their logos on their social media pages, their they've used it everywhere. They've done videos of covering up their logo in other places on shops around Carnaby Street. They've just gone all out to town. It's it's really, really, really clever ⁓ reactive marketing. Paul Duxbury: ⁓ ⁓ clever. So they've created almost like a a new ⁓ distinctive asset or or or or double down on the distinctive asset they've got. Warren Fiveash: And that doesn't it just show, doesn't it just prove the point of how important distinctive assets are for brands? You know, if you if you've got a distinctive asset and you can get your logo covered up but still recognise it and the shape's still clear, people recognise that, you're on a winner. And actually I was gonna ask you, Paul, what brands what other logos could you cover up and still recognise? I mean there's probably quite a lot, but Paul Duxbury: Well, that's a good question. I'm just looking at my desk. That's also quite helpful. I've got I've got an HP laptop. I don't know. Maybe if that was done in relief and covered up, maybe you'd recognise that with the H going up and the P going down. that might be one. I mean, BMW, I don't have a BMW on my desk, but BMW wouldn't work, I guess, because it's just a circle. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Give you that one. No. Anything circular, Starbucks, BMW, I think you're on a you're on a loser. You're not going to recognise that, are you? Yeah. Mm Nike. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. No, no, I don't think so. ⁓ Nike Yeah, I mean that that would be I d I don't know how they'd cope with that because covering it would make no difference, would it? It'd just be a typical colour. Warren Fiveash: No, no, that's true. ⁓ that is the ultimate ⁓ distinctive asset in a way, isn't it? ⁓ bit like apple. Would apple no you would, wouldn't 'cause it'd be the leaf No, maybe not. I don't know. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. The thing is, I I I I'm guessing that for the next World Cup there'll be something about when you cover your logo, you have to do it in such a way that you can't distinguish your logo even though it's covered. Warren Fiveash: True. Yeah, they haven't they've missed a trick, haven't they? I wonder if they've s upset upset any of their sponsors. I suppose other brands where you couldn't do that. So you said ⁓ BMW, Starbucks. I thought Amazon you probably couldn't, Spotify, 'cause it's just circular. ⁓ YouTube, Netflix. So there are there are ones out there. But yeah, it's just interesting that some some some assets are so distinctive you can do whatever you like to them and you can s you can still recognise them. Paul Duxbury: Mm. Yeah. It's a good test, isn't it? If i if you remove the branding but keep the shape, does it still work? Warren Fiveash: Maybe we need to do that for the marketing chip, Paul. We need a logo that's ⁓ that's so distinctive you can cover it up. The chest. Yeah, exactly. Paul Duxbury: shed like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A dilapidated shed with with with us inside it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yes, let let's get to work on that. We've got the budget, haven't we? Or we've got chat GPT. Warren Fiveash: So to so lessons to any marketers out there, make sure your your brand assets are distinctive. Look at Levi's as the example. I think it'll be used for years to come as an example of how why logos and sort of brand signals are so important. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Cudos to Levi's. Warren Fiveash: The other thing I saw this the other thing that's ⁓ irked me a bit actually, Paul. Yeah, it irks me. I don't I don't know I don't know whether this is a lesson or it's a piece of in yeah, or it's me being grumpy or you know, I'm a focus group of one on this, so i th there's no ⁓ there's obviously some insight the butlings are using for this, but there's a butlins ad out the moment. What is it? What's it called? It's called ⁓ swap boring for fun. The ad portrays Paul Duxbury: Hugged you. Or just you being grumpy? Warren Fiveash: families going on caravan holidays looking bored in the rain. So it'll show the clubhouse, entertainment being poor, the the like them outside in a tent with the rain blowing sideways, just unhappy imagery and then contrasting that against them having fun at Butlins. And I just wonder what the insight was behind that. Because we go on caravan holidays as a family and cost of living is Paul Duxbury: Mm. Warren Fiveash: is ⁓ is a thing, right? So families so families are finding things tough. They're looking for cheaper holidays to go on, staycations, etc. 'Cause going abroad or going to places like Butlins even might be a bit pricey. And there are only so many Butlins in the UK. So I think it hurt me and my wife because we were we enjoy these caravan trips. We don't want our kids to see this advert because we're taking them on a caravan trip. And actually didn't make me want to go to Butlins, it just made me bit annoyed with them. So there must be some insight behind it that says people see that and think, ⁓ yeah, my caravan trip's really boring rubbish and I could spend a bit more going to Butlins, but there'll be other people surely that think it's unaffordable. You've just co totally disrespected the holiday I go on. ⁓ so yeah it's just an interesting one around there must be insight but it will it will annoy a lot of people I think. Paul Duxbury: It is. Well, I I I think it's interesting that I thought you were gonna say you were annoyed because you didn't buy into it and and and you know, you you're well within your rights to do that. But it's interesting you were annoyed because it might give your kids the wrong impression. ⁓ and and that then puts pressure on you. So thanks a lot, Butlins, for for, you know, making them falsely in probably our shared opinion, feel they're on to a a a lesser thing. ⁓ Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Might be that. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: I I wonder what what friend of the podcast, Andy Leduc, would think of that. Andy, I I I worked with Andy when he was at Travelopia. He's now at the ⁓ I think it's the motor caravanning and camping club. And I think they'd be all over that. That that that's probably where they can do a bit of a viral response. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Well. Wise, yeah, someone should be and maybe someone has, I need to do maybe at least do a bit more research on that. But jump on that and say and show the other side, right? Show how exciting it is and how fun it is. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Yeah. And also to your point, marketeers, think about the impact of what you're doing on other people, before you go ahead with your smart advertising. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's like they're overthought that that ad and they're trying to be sort of a bit opinionated, divisive in some respects to show the contrast, but actually I think there's a there's a s there's a there's a there's a line you can cross. I've not seen any outrage over it. I've l I did look it up, there's no one kind of kicking off over it, just me probably. But maybe maybe it's subconscious and people aren't kind of ranting and raving about this, but actually Paul Duxbury: Well, I I I Well, I t I tend to think if you're getting irked by it, then then the the rest of the population I think is struggling to know how to control their rage and how to respond. ⁓ because, you know, you're a very mild mannered person and and this has really annoyed you, quite quite rightly, in my opinion. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah, exact exact exact exactly. Thanks, Paul. ⁓ I think I am. ⁓ Yeah, so that that's that's ⁓ that's what I've been thinking at over the last week. If you've had anything Paul that you've been seeing or thinking. Paul Duxbury: Well, no, no and yes. So I I saw ⁓ a little clip ⁓ on YouTube a day or two ago and is about a fella who had invented a very narrow field of vision goggles, ⁓ which were essentially two thin pipes that came, you know, in front of their eyes and they had sticks on the ends so the pipes didn't collapse. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: And so so all all the person could see is this tiny little field of view. And the reason they did it was so they weren't bombarded with advertisements and promotions as they went on their commute. So they walked around, you know, with these pipes. Now, ⁓ I thought that's very interesting because I feel like I've been wearing those those goggles because for the last two weeks I've been super focused on. Warren Fiveash: I love that. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Some really interesting but quite demanding work deliverables. And also in my personal life, there's been lots of things going on Big Birthday and lots, lots of things. And I I don't I don't think I've seen anything when it comes to ⁓ marketing communications. And that that to me gives me a sense of how difficult it can be as marketers to get in front of. your audience with your message. I mean how how how tricky. I I c I couldn't recall a single ad or a single promotion over the last two weeks. Warren Fiveash: Love that. I have weeks like that where we come to this podcast and I think, What have I what have I seen, what have I learned? And you're absolutely right. When you're busy and you're on your day to day and you've got your head down and you've got ⁓ work after you know, project after project going on, it's really hard to get your head above the parapet generally. But equally, like you said, trying to get someone's attention when you when they're like that, j y your point is proven, right? So Paul Duxbury: Yeah, and I think it it it it says I I mean I I you know it's it's rare for me to be in that situation. ⁓ and it's it's not ideal because it it it's you know, I'm I'm too busy. ⁓ but it shows that however hard you try as a marketer, there's always going to be people who at a point in time are gonna be unreachable and and probably one just has to accept that. and and then wait for them to come. back into public life and ⁓ be open to the messaging. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, a hundred percent. I do like your idea about these goggles that that block out the ads. It's almost like the anti the anti ⁓ meta ray band glasses, isn't it? It's Paul Duxbury: Yes. Yes. They don't look at all weird. Honestly. I mean that you know, they're completely natural and very practical as well. ⁓ but but kudos to the ⁓ the person who invented them because they're they're genius. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I t I'll tell you one more thing ⁓ that crossed my mind that I think it'd be I think needs to come into real life, Paul, is me and my wife sometimes we struggle to get babysitters, we struggle to get out the house. Sometimes you can't get a rest. I think there's something missing from the world that enables parents just to go and have a sleep somewhere. This is just one of these little ideas that I've had over the last few weeks where, you know, you don't want to go away anywhere but you just need to catch up on a break and you might not have the c child care. Parent pods. Parent pods, you know, just a just a just a small pod that you can sleep in for a few hours, get some rest, get out of the house so you're not disrupted by the kids 'cause you know, you can go to sleep in your room but you you're damn sure the kids are running in that room or banging on the door at some point. So if one of the one of the parents can look after the kids and the other one can pop out. Paul Duxbury: Airport. Warren Fiveash: ⁓ at low cost. I think that's I think there's something in that Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I like that. I like that. Maybe you can extend it and and there's a way that you could have two pods. The soundproof pod, you put the the the the the the kid in, you know, and they get some sort sort of amusement and then you can trash out alongside. I don't know. ⁓ there must be something we can do with modern technology. Warren Fiveash: That's a great idea. Okay, great idea. Yeah, love that. Anyway, what are you looking to do this week? Sounds like you're going away again, Paul. Paul Duxbury: Yeah, this week. ⁓ fascinating week. ⁓ so there's there's there's some important wrap-up from the workshops I was doing this week. I was in three days of workshops, two it two in Switzerland, one in London. ⁓ I've got follow-through on that, you know, to help ⁓ a big team land their new organization structure and strategy and operating model. ⁓ so that will be fascinating. ⁓ and then As I think I may have alluded to, I'm away on holiday. ⁓ but I think there's going to be ⁓ an element of ⁓ working away from home as well, because I need to put the finishing touches ⁓ to a marketing masterclass I'm running in Madrid the week after next. ⁓ so it's gonna be another sort of full-on. My plan, my plan is to chill out a bit in July. and August. ⁓ but you know, best of plans. So so I I'm gonna try and deliver on that, but I'm I'm I'm I'm saying it without feeling fully confident. But that's the plan. Warren Fiveash: Nice. Love that. Paul Duxbury: What about you? Going to go to Butlins, Butlins to get some fun? Warren Fiveash: ⁓ Ghana buttons, yeah, go on a butlings. No. ⁓ we send them a letter about my ⁓ my rage. No. ⁓ this week. So yeah, I've got the judging, ⁓ it's just wrapping that up. next next week is the actual day itself. So I'm looking forward to that. It's always a really good day 'cause you get in a room with other fellow marketers from all different parts of the you know, sphere, marketing sphere. So it's it's just really good to be in a room Paul Duxbury: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Free lunch. Yeah. Yeah. Warren Fiveash: ⁓ hearing lots of ideas and meeting different people and hearing their thoughts on marketing actually. So I'm looking forward to that. Paul Duxbury: Yeah, but but but but I assume you know, as the senior marketeer in the room, ⁓ you'll be the one leading the opinions. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Well this is my fourth year doing it now. ⁓ so, you know, y when you first go into it you're sort of a bit timid about expressing your views and now hopefully I'm at the point where, you know, I'll be leading the charge. Paul Duxbury: Exactly. Yes, and and and of course I I assume you'll be ⁓ expecting samples from all the nominated organisations and categories ⁓ to help you form a more objective judgment. Warren Fiveash: I yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. That would be the dream, wouldn't it? Yeah, exactly. I'm trying to think of who that of what I'd what my ideal kind of sample from which brand would be. I'll have to think about that. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Yeah, most dog food, and some some ⁓ stomach ache products. Yeah, that's that's yeah, that's not not what you want probably. Warren Fiveash: Mm. This type this is type there's no one from the marketing team at Patlins. But But yeah, we'll see we'll see it'll be good to talk about that on the next on the next pod and talk through how it went. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Yeah, we'll have loads to talk about. I will will I be yeah, I think I might be in Madrid. ⁓ so we might do it when I get back from there. ⁓ but I'll be ⁓ in fact, it'll be just before we debut on stage as a a double act, ⁓ Laurel and Hardy Mark Two. Warren Fiveash: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. What what a combo. What a combo. The world's not ready yet, Paul. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Yeah. So maybe we can do a report from the the conference and and you know live live live live report. Warren Fiveash: Think we should. I think we should do a live stream after we've done it or maybe before and after. Give give the viewers what they want. Great stuff. Great stuff. Well thanks Paul. Good to chat and ⁓ have a good week. Paul Duxbury: Okay, let's do it. Yeah, I'll get my five G card sorted out. Likewise. Yeah, have a cracking weekend and just just tame that anger. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, we'll do. All the best, Paul. Thank you.