Latest / Marketing Shed / The reason why globalised marketing could be over
Transcript
- Warren Fiveash: Good morning Paul. It's good to be back. How you doing? Paul Duxbury: It is good to be but how long is it since we've been able to get together to record one of these? Warren Fiveash: Maybe two and a half weeks. Maybe been a few Paul Duxbury: Is it really? Warren Fiveash: weeks. But it's it's good to see your face again, Paul, and chat to you and be back with a pop Paul Duxbury: Well well like like likewise you're looking younger, Warren. Warren Fiveash: Am I? Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Warren Fiveash: Am I? That's what the Mediterranean sea and sun does to you, doesn't it? Paul Duxbury: I I was thinking more it's a camera filter, but but if you if you Warren Fiveash: Well yeah, don't reveal my secrets, Paul. You're looking Paul Duxbury: sorry. Sorry. yes. Warren Fiveash: You're looking well yourself. Paul Duxbury: thank you. Yeah. I I I've I've been spending as much time as I can outside. mainly because it's too warm to be inside. but but I I'm not complaining, because it's been lovely. It's been lovely. I know I know there's there's there's lots of issues with the current weather, but it it is brilliant. I'm I'm having a great time. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah. We don't yeah, it's funny, when I went away there it was obviously hot in Spain and then you come back and it's also hot here. So usually when you come back to the UK it feels you feel like a a big difference in the temperature, don't you, or like the climate. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Warren Fiveash: But actually it was a beautiful sunny day, really warm in the evening. yeah, straight you remember that feeling when you get off the plane when you go on holiday and that that rush of heat hits you. It was almost like that coming back. Like Paul Duxbury: Yes, yes. Warren Fiveash: It's nice. There's it there's some problems which we hope get resolved as a result of the hot weather. But Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Warren Fiveash: yeah. Hopefully we get a little bit of rain 'cause I think we need it. But Paul Duxbury: yes, we had about thirty seconds worth yesterday. Well, I I did, I did. It it Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: it felt like it evaporated about the moment it hit the ground, but but it did. It did. It's very strange. It's like, rain. Very strange. Anyway, what Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: what what what have you been up to then? I mean, I suppose nothing because you've been on holiday. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah, been away, which was really nice to spend some time with the family and the kids and we did lots of great stuff, you know, go to the beach and spend some time in the pool. It's all about the kids on holiday when they're when they're sort of little, isn't it? So yeah, it was really really good, really good. It's nice time to have away. Just it do you know what it was? It was really nice to just be away from cha have a change of scenery for ten days. Get your head out of the day today and come back. kind of of renewed energy and freshness. So yeah, it's good it's been good and I'm back to work. Why isn't the first day back to work? You always feel quite calm and refresh and the second day it's like you've never been away. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm afraid that is the reality. That is the reality. Well well whilst you've been away out of the country, I've I've been here trying to keep the economy going. by by doing two things. So I I've I've been creating value through doing doing various bits of of consulting work, l largely, largely around helping a team. really ad adapt and or adopt and embed a new strategy, new communication strategy. That's been fun. but also specing out a couple of new pieces of training focused around the use of artificial intelligence in marketing. So that's been fascinating. but but I've also been helping the economy by spending money. So I've I've been for Mini breaks. I've been to Eastbourne, where where I've played a bit of golf in Eastbourne, which is spectacular. Highly recommend it. And I don't know if I've spoken to you since, but I've been to Wales twice. and and subsequently I've been to the Midlands or to the Cotswolds to a small festival. So it's been quite it's quite the variety of experiences over the last two weeks. Warren Fiveash: Well, that sounds delightful and sounds like you've had you know, having lots of mini breaks. it's good for the soul, isn't it? Doing lots of different things popping here and there. golf's always good for the soul. Some people Paul Duxbury: Yes. Yes. Warren Fiveash: some some people maybe not, but in the on the whole it's good to be outside, isn't it? Walking and doing exercise. Paul Duxbury: Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right. And and it sort of sort of leads me to my sort of musing. So I'm in a bit of a musing mood today. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: which is that I and I'm not the first person to say this, but it does feel like we've reached peak consumerism. that. And I say that because I think there's more and more focus now on experiences and people are talking more and more about experiences and they want experiences and that's what makes them happy. And I think it's it's because many of the things that that we we need or we feel we need actually now are more accessible than they ever have been and more affordable than they have been. And of course, it is linked to the fact we can get so much through our smartphones by way of entertainment, access to our loved ones, access to our social circle, and so on. And I was just thinking about experience. almost the localization of experience, because we've just come out of the World Cup, which of course is all about the globalization. of experience. And and there's been mixed reviews of the success the World Cup has had in terms of delivering a fantastic global experience. And equally I've I've I've been involved and and seen lots of very, very local experiences, small festivals, small events, which actually I think Personally, I found more meaningful and more enjoyable and more memorable than these big set piece global events. and I wonder if that's something that that marketers need to think about, because it's much harder obviously to replicate local events at scale. but if they're the ones that are driving the engagement. and the the value, then that's something marketers have got to get their heads around. Warren Fiveash: I think this is a really interesting point, Paul. So I was thinking about this last night because and I don't want to get political and this isn't me having Paul Duxbury: hang on. Right. Right. Hang on. Warren Fiveash: just just just discussing what the Prime Minister's been talking about with localisation and developing Paul Duxbury: Mm. Warren Fiveash: handing budgets to you know, local authorities. What what that kind of links in with what you're saying, 'cause what does that what does that mean, I suppose, for local economies and how potentially things might be marketing marketed in the future. So actually will there be more of a local angle to things? You know, he's talking about jobs for local people in local areas and and linking kind of education to that. It feels like similar to what you're saying, that we're going down this route of almost deconstructing the globalised kind of approach to marketing and actually focusing in on actually what matters to people in local areas. And so that I do think there is something for Marcus is to think about that. And similar to what you're saying about big events and actually local events feeling more meaningful. I I think I reflect the same thing. So when when my family and I go to sort of a local farm or a local event, whether it's put on a mini festival or a a day, they always feel more meaningful than when we go to the big kind of theme parks or That are owned by these kind of big corporations. and similarly, we went to a big concert which was fantastic recently, me and my wife, which is brilliant. It was at one of the big stadiums. I won't say who it was. but it it it was great. But actually the experience of going to the gig and coming out of the gig was really hard work. Like it was just really hard. Getting home, getting there, the trains were night well we actually drove it was really difficult getting home, it's difficult getting out of the stadium. There were lots of people there. And I think there's something about going to these kind of local gigs, events where there's local musicians and actually feels more meaningful, like you said, Paul. I think there's something in that approach and actually it is something that that people should be thinking about. Paul Duxbury: I think so. And I think that they're more doable now than ever because of Warren Fiveash: Mm. Paul Duxbury: of technology. So whether it's the ability to publicise, the ability to issue tickets, the ability for small businesses to operate and and take payment at these venues, just just simple things mean it's it's easier than it ever has been to put on local experiences. And that I think is what's going to make the difference. And so, yeah, as marketers, I would be saying, how do you recognize that? Because it's very easy to sign a big check to sponsor a national or even multinational event and then do activations off the back of that. Warren Fiveash: Mm. Paul Duxbury: but is that really talking to your core audience? And is that really getting getting penetration amongst your your key target audiences? And I'm not I'm not sure it is. And of course it's not it's not easy if if you're looking at a more dispersed model of of activities and experiences, but I think the technology is there now to help manage that, and that might be how one gets differentiation. so yeah, so that that that's that's the thought I've had it from this this summer, this this brilliant summer, which is not over yet, but this brilliant summer of experiences and adventures. and I'd love I'd love marketers to to turn their heads to this topic. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, I think I think there is some I really think there's something in that. And and in and in the summer where we haven't had at Glastonbury and big events like that actually, maybe there's been a bit more emphasis on the local local kind of s like festivals and bringing people together actually people maybe have had to have more thought thought around that. So yeah, I think it's interesting, really interesting. Actually Paul Duxbury: Well it is and and sorry, Glastonbury, don't get me started, but you have. I mean, at the end Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: of the day, you know, it's it's a commercial venture. I I know I know that a lot of the the proceeds go to good causes, but at the end of the day, it's it's a big marquee festival that that that seems to attract slightly just the just just peaks and just on the down curve stars. And Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: I think it's just become, in my view, Just a little bit cliched. And Warren Fiveash: Mm-hmm. Paul Duxbury: wouldn't you rather go to a smaller festival where you Warren Fiveash: Mm. Paul Duxbury: can see the bands that are doing that and say I was there before they were famous? and I Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah. Paul Duxbury: think a lot of people would agree with that. And and I Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: think the World Cup, Glastonbury, may maybe things like Formula One, all these big things that are becoming very commercialized and very globalized. I Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: I think there's there's a limit to the appeal of that. And there Warren Fiveash: All Paul Duxbury: there will be a a a renewed focus on these smaller experiences that that can be delivered now successfully because of the the the the development in terms of tech. Warren Fiveash: right. Paul Duxbury: Yes, let's see, let's see. So so does that does that capture your observations as well over the last couple of weeks, or have you got other other stuff? Warren Fiveash: You're talking about peak consumer consumerism. I've just been thinking about and looking into the sort of psychology of where we're at at the moment with the economy, where people maybe are finding things less affordable, the big stuff. And I think we might have touched on this before. so you know, where people maybe don't have enough to buy a car or a house, they're somehow ended up spending fifty quid a week on all these little things like coffee, snack. These little small treats. And actually I felt I discovered they call this treatonomics. So I don't know if you heard of that phrase. Paul Duxbury: I have not. Warren Fiveash: So it's when people feel financially squeezed, they don't necessarily stop spending money, but they shift from major purchases to kind of small indulgences. So it's the difference between buying a house and a seven pound coffee, essentially. and the reason that's happening is because people are delaying or abandoning buying homes, getting married, having children, going on expensive holidays or buying luxury goods. But they still want moments, small moments of pleasure, essentially. So, and I think they call this the lipstick effect. So it's not new, it's not necessarily a new thing, it's probably just been labelled with a new name. so it's this thing with during difficult economic periods, sales of relatively inexpensive luxury products often rise. So people can't expend Can't afford to spend thousands of pounds, but they justify spending 10 or 20 quid on something. But there's a there's a 25 pound ceiling to this this poll. So this comes into our thing around price and value again, links to our trend of this, and that's kind of the sweet spot for it. So anything below £25 feels spontaneous, manageable, rewarding, and relatively guilt free. So you feel like if you spend under £25. It's not going to break the bank. It feels well. You can do it. Once that price rises above £25, that's when people start thinking, I'm not sure about buying this. It feels too much. And the thing isn't the product. It's kind of the story. It's not the coffee or the candle or the notebook. It's the comfort, the reward, the status, the identity that they're buying effectively. And It kind of leads to this thing that we also discussed that people don't want discounts, they want permission to buy something. So they want to feel like they could be guilt free buying that and it gives them the comfort they need at that. Paul Duxbury: Mm. Warren Fiveash: so I think there's a few there's a few examples. I'm just scrolling down to give you a couple of examples on this. So examples could be, you know you've got velvetizers, obviously they cost a lot of money, don't they? But actually Paul Duxbury: Yeah, yeah. Warren Fiveash: people might buy a 13 pound hot chocolate pouch as a little treaty award. Or Marks and Spencer's food halls is quite a good example where you can get slightly more premium food but you can still spend under 25 quid on on something and go out and have a picnic together, or you get you you know you dine in for two. Which feels a little bit more premium and a nice treat, but you're not you're not you're not breaking the bank and it's nice reward. so things like that and it isn't selling products, it's smelling this kind of comfort and because people can't buy these big things, they're going to the smaller kind of Paul Duxbury: Mm. Warren Fiveash: like that. Paul Duxbury: Well, I I hadn't I hadn't realized there was a figure attached to that. I mean, it makes a lot of sense, you know, affordable luxury. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: I mean I I assumed that at a slightly different level, y you know, you you you hear a lot of you see a lot of cars nowadays that are a bit souped up. especially and you hear a lot of cars with those exhausts that make a lot of noise. And I've assumed that's because If you can't get on the housing ladder, you know, you've got you've got some money, not enough to to get a deposit on a house, you've got but you have got enough to buy a a semi decent car and to soup it up. I assume that was that was that effect, but I hadn't realized it was happening at the sort of twenty five pound level. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: but it makes sense. But I'm trying to think what I'd buy for twenty five quid. it's a strange middle Warren Fiveash: Yeah. I mean Paul Duxbury: ground. Warren Fiveash: we sometimes do it. So like the the MS thing's a good example actually. That the the sort of dining for two. Feels sort of you know you're buying the nice nice of end of the market in terms of food that you can take Paul Duxbury: Mm. Warren Fiveash: you can get a nice curry or Chinese. And it feels MS kind of stuff food feels quite kind of premium, doesn't it? And I Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Warren Fiveash: think you can feel like you can afford to buy that's under twenty five quid. You could probably get a nice dessert or drink to go with that. but y yeah, it's not breaking the bank. Or there was another one I saw about I think it's Pap Papia, the kind of stationery shop. They sell these you can you know the you know the big sort of journals that cost forty quid or, you know, leather. Paul Duxbury: Hm. Warren Fiveash: they do a smaller version of that, I think. that's under twenty five quid, but they sell that as like a a way to journal and away from f of mindfulness and that kind of thing and that feels like something can someone can buy and then feel kind of better or comforted by themselves. So there's little things like that that I think. and the and the coffee's a good example. It's like the seven pound Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Warren Fiveash: coffee, vanilla latte or whatever it is that people feel like they can buy those everyday things. But they'll probably add up to be over twenty five quid over a week. But when you Paul Duxbury: Yes. Warren Fiveash: buy you don't it's the psych the psychology of it I suppose. So Paul Duxbury: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Warren Fiveash: So yeah, so so it go maybe it goes against the grain of the consumerism thing we were talking about, the start, Paul, and your point around the end of consumerism, and maybe this trend will die out in due course, but Paul Duxbury: Mm. Warren Fiveash: I can see it where people can't buy these big things and then they've resort to the sort of the the the everyday treat to make themselves f feel better or reward themselves 'cause they feel that life's actually life's pretty Paul Duxbury: Yeah, well it it's it's an interesting one and and and the twenty five pound one is interesting and it's an interesting challenge as as marketers in that how do we respond to that and how do we respond to that in a responsible way. Warren Fiveash: Mm. Paul Duxbury: because I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel supremely confident about marketing things that sort of take advantage of that that twenty-five pound opportunity. Warren Fiveash: Hundred but Paul Duxbury: But equally, you know, who are we to judge? You know, if people think they want something, then Then it's that's up to them. Warren Fiveash: Well that is a good point and I you know feel similarly, do we want to be marketing to people who maybe don't have enough of these big ticket items and then you're trying to sell them something they don't need. the this is the kind of age old conundrum, isn't it, I suppose, for marketers trying to sell stuff people don't need. But in today's world where you're trying to build value and it goes back to the point at the beginning about experiences, I suppose putting Actually, should Paul Duxbury: Yes. Warren Fiveash: be valuing more bringing people together in spaces and experiences and connection as opposed to buying things? And actually is that the role for marketers in the future? Should that be the thing we turn to? Getting deep Paul Duxbury: Yeah, that that'd be a challenge. Could you for what what experience could you give people for twenty five pounds? Ooh, interesting. Warren Fiveash: You yeah. Yeah. Well there aren't many of those big gigs and things that you can go to for under twenty five well there's none. Is there? There's none. So y yeah, it's an interesting one. Paul Duxbury: Very good, very good. So what's happening in the week ahead for you, Warren? Warren Fiveash: Well, getting straight back into into work, Paul, trying to keep the kids entertained in the summer holidays. Actually that goes back to trying to find small small things for under twenty five quid that we can pay for. Paul Duxbury: There you go. Warren Fiveash: So yeah, so on my list this week with my wife is probably looking for things that we can do days out that don't break the bank with the kids, things you can do at home, things we can do go out that don't cost cost a fortune. So that's probably part of my week and then work where there's lots of big projects going on at at my organisation at the moment, doing lots of things at once to try and shape the future for young people with cancer so we can give them the best kind of possible chance, kind of not just survive surviving cancer but also living their lives and and having the best chance to do that. So there's some really exciting stuff going on at work that I'll be diving into and that'll all be coming to a head over the sort of next two or three months. So So yeah, looking forward to getting my teeth into that. What about you, Paul? Paul Duxbury: Fantastic. What about me? I'm well I'm taking a proper holiday next week. I am the weekend I'm cycling down to the south coast. I'm then getting the ferry with some friends to France. We're gonna cycle around the northwest of France for a week. I'll have no laptop, I will have a smartphone, but I will be as non working as I've ever been, I think, for that week. Which is going to be brilliant. Warren Fiveash: Right. Paul Duxbury: The weather's looking pretty good as well. so I'm gonna have a week doing that. And then when I get back, it'll be all hands to the pump because I've got a lot of training to deliver in September and October. I think it's training around data visualization, training around AI in marketing, training around. influencing skills. so there's a lot of lot of build work to be done. but that's going to be super interesting, super exciting. so yeah, I I can't wait. Warren Fiveash: That sounds great, Paul, as always, lots of training, which is good. I think you're imparting your wisdom on all lots of people, which is I wonder if you're gonna get lots of questions about the open IA AI stuff and the hack, but maybe not, maybe not, maybe people won't delve into that. Paul Duxbury: Well, yes, that is an interesting one. And one one wonders what the agendas are of the various parties involved. Warren Fiveash: What well that that that was on yeah, that was on my mind as well. Who knows? Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Well, if they've not taken over the world in the next two weeks, I will I look forward to to catching up with you then and we can compare notes. Warren Fiveash: Fantastic. Brilliant stuff. Thanks, Paul. I look forward to speaking to you after your holiday. Paul Duxbury: Likewise. Warren Fiveash: Peace.