Latest / Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor / Nature vs Anxiety: A Doctor's Guide to Natural Healing with Dr. Jenny Brockis

Transcript

Nature vs Anxiety: A Doctor's Guide to Natural Healing with Dr. Jenny Brockis · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

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  Speaker 3: I hover the podcast.
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  Speaker 2: Doctor Jenny Brocus, Welcome to the podcast.
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  Speaker 3: You are a i'll met physician and you have written
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  Speaker 3: a book called The Natural Advantage. So tell our listeners
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  Speaker 3: what a lifestyle and medicine position is and how you
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: got to become one of them.
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  Speaker 2: Where did your interest in this area spark?
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  Speaker 3: So?
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  Speaker 1: I trained in medicine originally and worked as a GP
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  Speaker 1: for many years and until I burnt out and then
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  Speaker 1: decided I needed to do something else other than general
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  Speaker 1: practice because I thought I'd probably burn out again if
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  Speaker 1: I went back into it. But I really loved medicine
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  Speaker 1: and wanted to apply it in a different way. And
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  Speaker 1: even before the burnout happened, I'd been really curious as
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  Speaker 1: to why some of my patients went to other healthcare practitioners.
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  Speaker 1: Why did some of them go to a naturopath or
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  Speaker 1: a chiropractice rather than me. You know, doctors meant to
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  Speaker 1: be the be all and end all and know everything.
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  Speaker 1: Of course we don't. So I had started exploring why,
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  Speaker 1: and the answer I kept coming up with was the
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  Speaker 1: fact that people wanted more time to be heard, and
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  Speaker 1: they wanted a more holistic approach to their health rather
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  Speaker 1: than the sort of quick tell me what's wrong. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: this is a diagnosis, here's yours, here's yes script, now
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  Speaker 1: you've got it. It was and that was very dissatisfying
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  Speaker 1: for me as a practitioner. So I fell over lifestyle medicine,
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  Speaker 1: having sort of set up a workplace health and well
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  Speaker 1: being consultancy in the meantime, and realize that these people
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  Speaker 1: who were all sorts of different health practitioners were basically
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  Speaker 1: singing from the same thumsheet of asking, well, what keeps
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  Speaker 1: people well? What can we do to prevent people from
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  Speaker 1: becoming sick in the first place. We've got this epidemic
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  Speaker 1: of chronic disease, which is sort of putting a burden
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  Speaker 1: on everybody, and we have to do things differently. And
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  Speaker 1: I just love the fact that lifestyle medicine offers the
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  Speaker 1: practitioner the opportunity to engage at a different level with
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  Speaker 1: their patient or client, whatever you want to call them,
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  Speaker 1: so that you're you're basically having a conversation with them
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  Speaker 1: and you're working together to resolve their health issues, seeking
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  Speaker 1: also at the same time to keep them in best
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  Speaker 1: functional state as possible, so you're encouraging them to take
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  Speaker 1: more responsibility for looking after themselves in the first place,
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  Speaker 1: and that is much better for everybody. The patients love
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  Speaker 1: it because they feel heard, because they feel that, oh,
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  Speaker 1: you're not just interested in my souteau, you're interested in
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  Speaker 1: me as a person. And it's much more satisfying for
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  Speaker 1: the practitioner or physician because we feel that we are
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  Speaker 1: actually making a positive difference to people's overall health and wellbeing.
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  Speaker 1: So that's what got me into it.
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  Speaker 3: There's so much say on pack there and a couple
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  Speaker 3: of things I want to touch on. So firstly around
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  Speaker 3: you talked about sickness and writing scripts. I was just
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  Speaker 3: writing a new book and I was just doing a
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  Speaker 3: bit of research earlier on and ninety five to ninety
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  Speaker 3: eight percent of all healthcare spending in most OECD nations
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  Speaker 3: is on tertiary treatment, So we don't really have a
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  Speaker 3: healthcare system. We've got a sick care system which, as
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  Speaker 3: you rightly say, is not proactive about people's health and
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  Speaker 3: it tends to be just writing scripts and then the
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  Speaker 3: whole system that then drives burnout as well, because, as
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  Speaker 3: you'll be very aware, I think doctors are at the
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  Speaker 3: highest or among the highest in terms of professional burnout.
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  Speaker 3: How much of that do you think is down to
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  Speaker 3: the fact that you have to churn out patients every
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  Speaker 3: is it fifteen minutes for an appointment these days, and
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  Speaker 3: you just yes.
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  Speaker 2: And you've just got to get.
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  Speaker 3: Through, and there's a lot of frustration with not being
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  Speaker 3: able to be effective. You know, how much of the
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  Speaker 3: burnout of physicians is because of the way that the
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  Speaker 3: healthcare system is set up, And there's a lot of
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  Speaker 3: burnout obviously as they go through medical training as well.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's a lot to be so for
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  Speaker 1: the system itself. Burnout doesn't just happen to a person necessarily.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, sure certain personalities are going to be more
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  Speaker 1: at risk, but I think it's when you feel that
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  Speaker 1: you're fighting the system and the system is sort of
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  Speaker 1: knocking your back all the time.
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  Speaker 3: And for me, SYSM Sorry, Jenny, is a very high
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  Speaker 3: predictor of bernout right being cynical, but it.
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  Speaker 1: Is the reality. And knowing that, you know, we spend
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  Speaker 1: less than two percent of our total healthcare pudget on prevention,
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  Speaker 1: just begs the question, what are we trying to achieve?
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  Speaker 1: We know that so much of chronic disease is essentially preventable.
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  Speaker 1: We know that, and yet the system is sort of
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  Speaker 1: pushing against the idea that we should be spending more
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  Speaker 1: time on prevention first, then dealing with the appropriate disease
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  Speaker 1: as required. We can't. It's totally unsustainable as is. And
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  Speaker 1: I suspect that many people who are given their prescription
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  Speaker 1: who because that's what they expect. You know, we've trained
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  Speaker 1: our patients well to expect the script. Oh I've seen
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  Speaker 1: the doctor, Yeah, I got my script. They often don't
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  Speaker 1: get filled or also whatever, throw it in the bin, whatever,
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  Speaker 1: And it's a missed opportunity. And so often I hear
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  Speaker 1: doctors or other health professionals pushing back saying, well, we
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  Speaker 1: don't have time because we've got this tsunami of patients
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  Speaker 1: waiting to be seen. But we have to make the time.
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  Speaker 1: If we can't make the time to ask a question
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  Speaker 1: in thirty seconds, tell me more about you know, how
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  Speaker 1: are you sleeping at the moment, what's going on in
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  Speaker 1: your world? How are you coping with everything? If we
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  Speaker 1: can't take the time to ask that, how can we
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  Speaker 1: possibly work to make them better?
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  Speaker 3: And that gets to another point that I wanted to
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  Speaker 3: discuss because you mentioned it in your introduction, by complimentary
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: medicine practitioners. So I've heard lots of doctors, GPS, medical
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: people being quiet critical of complementary medicine and saying a
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  Speaker 3: lot of it is not evidence based. Yet lots of
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  Speaker 3: people go to them, and lots of people have good
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  Speaker 3: results with them, And I think a huge component of
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  Speaker 3: that is the strength of the relationship. I mean, there's
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  Speaker 3: an barket load of research that shows, whether it's in medicine, health,
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  Speaker 3: or psychology, the strength of the relationship and the warmth
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  Speaker 3: of the therapeutic alliance is a big predictor of success.
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  Speaker 3: So how much of that do you think factors in
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  Speaker 3: to doctors not being as effective as they could be massive?
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  Speaker 1: And I think the criticism often comes from a place
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  Speaker 1: of ignorance because we don't understand what we do. And
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  Speaker 1: I think what is heartening to say is we're saying
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  Speaker 1: the development of many more integrative practices. Whereas you have
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  Speaker 1: not just the GP or doctor on site, you might
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  Speaker 1: have a naturopath and a dietitian, a psychologist, ex health coach,
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  Speaker 1: exercise physiologists. You have access to all these other people,
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  Speaker 1: and it's only by working alongside each other that you
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  Speaker 1: actually get to understand what everybody does. When we held
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  Speaker 1: the Lifestyle Medicine Conference this year in Adelaide, we partnered
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: with the primary health care nurses and it was so
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  Speaker 1: good to see that it provided this marvelous opportunity for
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  Speaker 1: both sides to get to understand what the other person
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  Speaker 1: was doing. And when you have more understanding, you lose
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  Speaker 1: that sort of intolerance or dismissive nature. And when you say, oh,
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  Speaker 1: there's no evidence to this, let's remember that a lot
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  Speaker 1: of these allied health professionals are going through their own
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  Speaker 1: degrees and they are evidence based, so we can't ignore it.
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  Speaker 1: And I think the biggest gift we could ever give
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  Speaker 1: anybody we're working with is the gift of our full
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  Speaker 1: and undivided attention and time.
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  Speaker 2: I love it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I was at that conference as well presenting it.
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  Speaker 3: It was brilliant and that the Lifestyle Medicine Association has
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  Speaker 3: been pooshing that bandwagon for many, many years, which is obviously.
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  Speaker 2: Why you have jumped on the bandwagon. Now let's talk
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  Speaker 2: about your book, The Natural Advantage.
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  Speaker 3: So you mentioned in that book having high functioning anxiety
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  Speaker 3: and finding solace in nature.
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  Speaker 2: So was that what it was inspired you to write
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  Speaker 2: the book or what?
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  Speaker 3: So talk a little bit about your high functioning anxiety,
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  Speaker 3: how you find that solace in nature and how that
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  Speaker 3: layed to the writing of the book.
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  Speaker 1: I think I realized that I always had been a
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  Speaker 1: fairly anxious type of person. That was just me, and
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  Speaker 1: I just lived with it, didn't think anything of it.
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  Speaker 1: But it was at a time when I had been
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  Speaker 1: particularly anxious and was seeing a psychologist for some assistance,
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  Speaker 1: and she just mentioned, by the way, oh, Jenny, You've
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: made some interesting career choices because I'd been through medicine,
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  Speaker 1: I'd studied how to be a public speaker for somebody
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  Speaker 1: with high functioning anxiety, and it was like, WHOA Really?
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  Speaker 1: In that moment, I realized that I had been dealing
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  Speaker 1: with something that was something I didn't have to deal
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  Speaker 1: with for so many years, as I had that secondly,
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  Speaker 1: there was something I could do about it. And thirdly
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  Speaker 1: that intuitively I had always in times of trouble, so
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  Speaker 1: to speak, gone out for long walks, hikes down to
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  Speaker 1: the ocean, through bush or whatever, because that gave me peace.
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  Speaker 1: It helped me just to feel better in myself. I
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  Speaker 1: just switched off from all everything else going on in
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  Speaker 1: my world and was able just to reconnect with that
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  Speaker 1: natural state or environment around me. And all the science
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  Speaker 1: that's been around you know, for what forty years or
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: if not longer, shows that by going outside we change
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  Speaker 1: our physiology in just a few minutes.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, we know that.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: It is pretty amazing, isn't it.
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  Speaker 3: And so you talk about how sight, hearing, smell, and
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  Speaker 3: other senses are really vitally connecting with nature. Just give
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: us a high level overview by the rule that our
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: different sensors play in our overall well being.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: I think sight, being sort of one of our principal senses,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: is the one that can really help us with mental
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  Speaker 1: strain or brain fry from too much screen time when
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: we're hyper focused and we're looking at being on tasks
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: for so long is exhausting. By looking outside, we change
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: our perspective because we can look up to the sky,
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  Speaker 1: we see brought more broadly, we can see the trees
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  Speaker 1: and the green around us, and that is calming in
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  Speaker 1: itself to the brain. So it immediately softens our focus
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  Speaker 1: and we become more attentive to what's going on in
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: our immediate environment, so we actually start to observe things
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  Speaker 1: better rather than just being sort of blinkered. The second
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: one is hearing, and again we live in very noisy environments,
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  Speaker 1: often human, human made noise, and that's stressful in its
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: own right. Getting outside again into natural sound, whether it's
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: bird song, wind water, very soothing again to the mind
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: and the body. And again when we tune into what
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: we can hear. For example, if you like notice this
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: particular bird singing, you ask yourself the question, what bird's that,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: and then you start to get better at identifying the
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: different birds in your locality. Improves our ability to hear better.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: So when we're interacting with other people, were better at listening.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: I've always thought I was a good missler, and my
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: husband never agrees, but.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Tell them it's selective listening.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: It's selective, yes, But you know, if you get better
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: at looking and better at hearing, we're onto a good
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: start right for being able to function more appropriately. The
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: other senses, smell and taste sort of go together, and
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: here it's about really taking notice of the smells around us.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Not all natural smells are wonderful, some of them quite authensedic.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: But you know, walking through a pine forest where you've
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: got pine needles underneath your feet, I mean you get
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: the crunch of the needles underneath, but you also get
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: that lovely pine smell. Or if there's flowers that are
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: blooming and they've got their own particular scent. That is
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: a very powerful link memory of people and events quite often,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: which again makes us feel calm, makes us feel connected
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: at a greater level. And of course touch we have.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: You know, people stop touching, and in COVID we went
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: allowed to touch, wentn't allowed to hug or anything like that.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: And yet touch is such an important sense to help
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: us make sense of the world, which is why kids
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: explore outside, get into the dirt, climb trees. They're touching everything,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: which is essential to their development. But we need to
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: be able to do that as well. I mean, we
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: probably don't climb trees as much as we used to.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: That's when we were little, but touch, whether it's touching
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: an animal, keeping a pet, cat, dog, whatever, or sometimes
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: just noticing different barks or different textures on trees or leaves.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: It's something that we gain from by just engaging in
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: that activity. So I always encourage people they're going to
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: go out for a walk in nature, I say, use
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: all of your senses if possible. Start by what you
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: can see, tune into what you can hear, what can
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: you smell, What can you taste, Can you taste something
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: in your mouth, or you know, what can you touch?
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: And that gives you the full sort of immersion into
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: nature itself.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: I fully endorse that.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Having moved about ten years ago, me moved from the
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: city down to the Mornington Peninsula, which is a wonderful
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: spot and we're quite lucky to have a bit of
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: the view of the water now. We didn't originally when
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: we moved down here. But me and Callie both get
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: up in the morning and when the weather's decent in Melbourne,
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: get outside first thing in the morning. You know, there's
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: so many birds around us. You know, we sleep with
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: the window open and get woken up by the birds.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: And there's a particular bird that's my alarm clock whenever
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: the sun is starting to come up. But just being
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: outside and listening to the bird is just it's freaking amazing, right,
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: And sometimes with depending on where the wind is coming from,
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: you can.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Actually smell the sear and the salt and all that.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: And I was I went into the city yesterday and
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: it just it just struck me how busy and noisy
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: it was. And it just becomes a little bit overwhelming,
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: doesn't it. If you're just I was actually just thinking
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: because and I drove past our old place yesterday, I
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: was thinking, Jesus, there's you can't pay me enough money
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: to go back and live in the city having been
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: there and move darts to where we are where it's
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: it's beautiful and super quiet and all of that.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: But let's dig in a little bit.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Into each of those senses. So you talked about screen time,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: and you're talking in your book about screen fatigue, and
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: there is it has been recorded around it where the
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: kids are becoming more and more myopic, right because of
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: the amount of time that they're spending on screens. And
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: you mentioned it earlier on about when you're that hyper focused.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Research from Andrew Huberman's lab showed that focusing in at
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: a short distance for long periods to actually activates the
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: stress response system, right and getting out and opening up
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: your field of view, which is also brilliant for athletes,
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: by the way, going from short focus to wide focus,
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: to short focus to wide focus. So give us some
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: recommendations around both individuals who are just struggling with screen
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: time and also parents with kids, because I find that
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: more and more people are spending their free time in
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: the confines of four walls with.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Their heads buried in a screen.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: And that's bad for a number of reasons.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Number one, that.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Focus that you talked about, the short focus, but also
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: I call them passive consumers of life. They're not active
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: Part two diipants, right, And it's like entertaining me device,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: whether it's a phone or it's a TV. So let's
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: just go a bit deeper into what are the issues
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: with that, and you know, what can people do to
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: try and break some of this screen addiction and just
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: give a sense of people for you know, a bit
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: more depth about the benefits of actually getting off screens
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: and getting outside.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Particularly.
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  Speaker 1: I think the problem is that we're so drawn to
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: the technical gadgets because they're fun and you can interact
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: and you can play with other people elsewhere, and it's
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: what everyone else does, so we want to be part
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: of that group too, and so we don't look for
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: the opportunities to go outside. So, as parents, the greatest
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: gift we can give our children is to kick them
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: out for help, kick them out so you're not you
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: can have time on your video games or whatever, but first.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: After going after during the holidays.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Yep, yep, and and you'll get lots of kickback and
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: screaming and it's not fair, is boring. But you know what,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: if they do it often enough, they actually start to
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: look forward to it and they start to want to
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: get outside and you know, kick a footy round or
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: play with each other or whatever it is they're doing.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: So I think we've just got to be a parent
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: sometimes and say, darling, this is this is of real good.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: And we know that you know, the minimum time that
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: they need to be outside that is an hour for
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: their well being and for their eyesight, and preferably more.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: And so what can we do. We've got to take
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: back control and give our kids guidance as to what
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: is appropriate for them in terms of entertainment. The best
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: entertainment is self entertainment. When they're doing things outside, free
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: unstructured play is best. It stimulates creativity, relates to their imagination.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: It calms them down so they're less angry, less stressed,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: so they perform better, and their behavior improves all sorts
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: of things. And they sleep better too, which is going
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: to be always good for parents.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: That's right, sleeping children again.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: Researching for this book, I read a shocking statistic that
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: kids in America and I'm sure it's pretty similar here
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: spend less time outside than high security prisoners.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the statistic I saw with seven minutes
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: a day, which is shock. It's just insane, absolutely insane.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: But there's all sorts of reasons for that too, and
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: safetyism comes into that.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Parents of food shit.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: It's bullshit, right, I mean, yeah, that sorry to jump in,
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: but that that pushes my buttons. That does because we
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: are wetier than we've ever been. I see Professor Grant
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: schol Feed Good Men of Mind did a whole heep
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: of research in news Land and find that when we
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: were young, we would generally roam around at five miles
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: from the house. You know, you'd be out on your
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: bikes and stuff like that. And now for the average kid,
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: at six hundred meters is how far they roam. So
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: we are using battery children rather than free range kids.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: He talks about three range kids. What I love it.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, and I think sometimes it's not even
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: six hundred meters. It's within the confines of the front
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: or the backyard, which is which is scary to.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Or from the front door to the car. Ah.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, because we take our children everywhere by car,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: don't we all public transport?
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, it is. It's crazy.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: Okay, let's not talk about And something that plays into
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: what I was talking about being in the city. Er
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: pollution and noise pollution and just hide those two things
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: affect us in terms of our health, and you know
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: what we can do about it.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: They're both sort of hidden from sight, really, aren't they.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: I Mean, sometimes we can see the air pollution when
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: it's particularly bad, but often we don't notice it until
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: we wonder why. You know, our kids are developing asper
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: and people are getting into trouble with chronic coughs and
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: everything like that. But air pollution because we live in
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: a city, means we're subjected to traffic, planes, all sorts
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: of things going on around us, and the pollution builds up,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: and it's the size of the particles of the different
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: molecules which obviously can get into our lungs and cause
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: lung damage. So having access to trees, particularly large trees
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: around is essential for a number of reasons. I mean,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: obviously they provide us with shelter, they give us oxygen,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: but they also act as air filters. They absorb some
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: ridiculous amount of pollutants into themselves and then get rid
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: of it through their roots or when it rains, that
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: gets washed off the leaves, So that we need trees
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: around us to actually help improve our air quality. So
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: that's one thing, and many Australian cities have woffle tree
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: canopies speak for a number of reasons. So I think
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: there's a big push now people now understand that we
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: need tree canopy to keep our cities healthier.
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: And lower and lower temperature as well, and lower temperatures.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: And I actually know whenever I first came to Australia,
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: I thought there were so many more trees than the UK.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: In cities in the UK, A lot of them are
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: just concrete Jungles. Is there anywhere in the world that
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: does really well on this in terms of the amount
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: of tree cover in the cities.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Did you look into that at all in your.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Singapore comes out number one in the world. It is
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: the greenest city and it was the premier at the time.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: I can never remember his name, but he decided that
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: he needed to make Singapore a green city. And over
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: the last few decades that has been achieved. And if
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: you ever passed through Singapore or stay there, you will
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: see just how much vegetation there is around there. Virtually
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: every building has either roof garden or things coming down
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: the sides of the building, or you know, every road
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: has avenues of trees. The Median strip has trees and bushes.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: It's fully green.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: And yeah, we've got a lot to emulate and do better.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Sydney has taken on the challenge to improve tree canopy
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: to forty percent by twenty fifty, so there is move
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: a foot. But obviously it takes a long time to
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: plant and grow trees. You can't do it overnight. So
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: we've just got to get better and really question why
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: we are cutting trees down. I mean, in a moment
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: in Perth. We've got a particularly nasty bug or insect
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: which bores in trees and it's killing a lot of trees.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: And so the response is being, well, you just cut
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: all the trees down get rid of the pests that way.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Well that doesn't work. So they're trying now to work
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: out a different way of managing it. Otherwise we're just
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: going to I'm in a complete desert with no trees,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: which is not the way forward.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: So yeah, and interesting on Singapore actually, because I've been
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: to Singapore quite a lot, used to go there for
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: I used to do it for a bit of work there.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: And you're right, it is very, very green.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Even when you drive out of the airport, you're driving
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: down and there's a big there's a big strip coming
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: out of the airport, and I remark, just how many.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Trees are around. This is the benefit of having a
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: benevolent dictator. Yes, exactly.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Look at how much really good shit happens in Singapore.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: It is. It is fantastic.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Some of the stuff around the healthcare in Singapore, some
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: of the public programs, it's just And this is what
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: happens when you have people who are in part for
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: long periods of time who actually truly care about.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Their citizens right, And that's the difference.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: That's the difference. There's plenty of blinesses. Dictators here are
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: not benevolent. But I'm saying better not go there anytime soon.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: I've said analyticator, but it is. It is a brilliant
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: place that it is gone from a tiny little city
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: to a world powerhouse over the period of fifty years.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: And there's so much cutting out stuff that's coming out
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: of Singapore that's really interesting. Let's talk about being in
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: nature and how that can enhance our mindfulness. I mean,
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: you hinted at it a little bit earlier on, but
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: let's do a bit of a dive into that.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people like to get outside into
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: nature to be more mindful, and you can interpret that
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: in any way you want. There are mindfulness practitioners who
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: take people in sort of on nature walks, and they
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: are are invited to be mindful in how they place
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: their feet when they're walking, and to tune into all
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: their senses as they move or sit in a natural space.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: But I think it's really about being observant or noticing.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: It's that to me, is the mindfulness of it, which
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: we're often not very good at so to be mindful,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, one of my favorite things to do, and
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: I've I had to practice and learn how to do
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: this because I was always a doer, was to make
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: myself my first cup of tea in the morning, because
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: coming from the UK, tea first thing in the morning.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: But yeah, tea first.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: So are you a tea person rather than the coffee
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: person or you better both?
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: I'm now a bit of both, but it has to be.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Tea first, right, Okay, there we go.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: So I make a cup of tea, I go outside,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: I jump into our backyard pool from my immersion and
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: as I say, I've had to learn how to do this,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: And sometimes I will just sit and drink my cup
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: of tea in peace and quiet and just notice everything
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: around me. It's just lovely and that quietness just sets
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: me up for a good day. I can handle things better.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: I'm more resilient. I'm not sort of so frazzled before
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: I even start.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: And I think that's so many, so many people there.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Are they check their phone before their feet touched the grind.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: And I have started saying, if you if you check
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: your phone before your feet touched the grind.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: You have got a major, major problem going on.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Well, we do have a major problem. And it's got
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: a name. It's called digital dementia.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: I never heard that.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a real thing, you know.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: I mean we've been talking about, you know, we shouldn't
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: doom scroll, this perpetual need to be on our phones
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: scrolling down. Oh we see one message, or there might
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: be another message. Oh, that looks interesting, and we just
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: go on and on and on and on, and it's
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: been shown it it's very bad for our working memory.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Now it's not good for you at any age, but
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: particularly as you get older and you and your working
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: memory isn't quite as good as it used to be.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: You don't want to aggravate that by reducing your capacity
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: to actually utilize your working memory as it's designed. It's
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: much harder to regain that, but you can by simply
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: not scrolling. But we need to be more mindful about
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: how we and this goes back to how do we
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: interact with all our beautiful gudgets that we love so much.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: So for me, it's it's making that conscious choice. If
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: I am out and I'm having to wait to be
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: seen by somebody, or you know, I've got an appointment,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I make it a conscious decision not to take the
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: phone out of my handbag to fill the.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: Time that night at a cafe, at a bus stop,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: in a lift, right, yes, A and I get into lifts.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: And I really don't take my phone out.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: And I just just just notice how many people we've
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: just become so uncomfortable in the presence of strangers that
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: we just.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: People just go straight to their phones, still't.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: They they do. It's it's quite peculiar, you know, to
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: be sitting there and realize you're the only person who
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: hasn't got their face stuck in her phone. But I
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: think we've just got to remind ourselves that if we
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: want to sort of feel well function well, particularly keeping
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: the old brain working well, we've just got to be
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: mindful that trying to stimulate it with too much stuff
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: from our phones or our screens is actually detrimental to
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: our health and well being.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: And is this to to have you read that into
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: the mechanisms by which all of this impers our working memory?
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: Is it just because we're just moving from one thing
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: to the next and not taking time to focus and
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: make connections and stuff like that. Is it this weed
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: of of the inputs that is detrimental.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: It's the speed and multiple distractions or interruptions. We never
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: focus for more than a couple of seconds on one thing,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: and then you're on to the next, and then the
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: next and then the next. Yeah.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: And you know, I see people watching movies with their
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: bloody phone note as well watching TV.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Like double screening. I'm like, when I see.
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: My kids do that, I lose my rag for double
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: screening and they're just oh.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Shite, there's a thing.
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: There's so much stuff in our environment that is just
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: going right wrong. But let's talk about sunlight, right, because
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: we live in the street.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: We're both from the UK, right where aboutually from in
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: the UK.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Born in Yorkshire, Yorkshire, Yorkshire, Yorkshire where.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: There's very little sun, and there's even less sun where
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: I'm from across the water in Northern Ireland.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: But yet in Australia where we now both live, that
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: is frigging amazing. There are comparable levels of vitamin D
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: deficiency and insufficiency as there are in the UK, and
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: even in freaking Scotland where there's just very little sun. Ever,
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: because I lived there in glasgy for five.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Years, So talk talk to.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: Us about a what what are some of the risks
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: of low vitamin D.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: I think it shouldn't be called a vitamin.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: I should think it should be cause it's a hormone.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, And can you please elaborate on that, just
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: about the stuff that vitamin D, vitamin hormone D, whatever
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: we want to call it, why it is important in
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: our overall health and in the role of sunlight and
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: where we're going wrong in all of this.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, So, vitamin D or hormone D, whatever you want
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: to call it, is produced naturally in our skin by
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: exposure to sunlight. In the UK, less sunlight for shorter
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: periods of time. So the government there now recommends that
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: the population take a vitamin D supplement for the winter months,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: for six months of the year. They suggest people should
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: take it. They don't tell us here to do that.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: But what happens here in Australia is we will stay
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: inside because we're afraid of the sun. We've got so
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: good with the slip slop slab covering up. We don't
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: want premature wrinkles or sun spots or anything like that,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: or it's too hot or whatever. We don't go out
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: as much as we used to. I mean going out
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: as a teenager with olive oil on my skin to
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Spain to get brown and peel at least three times,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: because that made your tan last longer. Probably what'sn't the
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: best way to get my vitamin D up. But hey,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: we learn as we.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Go, do you know, Jenny, just a folling aside on this.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: We were talking to friends of ours the other day.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to throw this person onto the bus,
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: but one of our friends is still doing that, is
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: still in this throwing out into this. And my wife
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: had actually said to her, Oh, I love your tan.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: What's that the brand of fake tan? And she laughed
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: and rather sheepishly went olive oil.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: It's not a shocker.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Oh my lord.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Digress, Yes, we digress.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: So we need vitamin D because it's it's basically utilized
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: in so many different chemical processes within the body. So
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: it's not just about bones and teeth and muscle and
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: better brain health. Vitamin D is involved in multiple different
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: organs to help cellular function. Without vitamin D, we're not
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: going to be doing quite so well.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Metabolism just doesn't work well, does it.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: And as we age again, our ability to manufacture vitamin
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: DY diminishes. I think I can't remember what the exact
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: percentage decline it is over the age of sixty five,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: but it's significant. And if you're somebody who finds it
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: difficult to get outside, obviously that's going to reduce your
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: exposure to some light as well. And of course we're
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: going to keep the olive oil in the pantry and
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: we're not going to go to a solarium. So the
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: ideal thing is to basically just get out in the
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: time of day that we can early morning or late
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: afternoon when the intensity the sun is down and we've
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: got longer shadows, because then you don't need all the
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: sunscreen and all the cover up that we do for
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: the rest of the day, and we only need about
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: ten minutes a day. I mean, it's not a long
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: period of time to try and sort of build up
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: our levels.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, unless you're of darker skin obviously out obviously that's different.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: That's different.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: I think that's one that people should look at.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: So in our house, my my wife and daughter are
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: really quite peel and very sunconscious. Cardie's vitamin D levels
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: are off the charts right she's just a little bit
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: of exposure and with very peel skin shield manufacture it
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: really well. And me and Oscar tend to be darker.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: He just needs to look at the sun and he
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: goes dark.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: And but we.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: Actually need more sun exposure than they do. And if
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: you are our dark skin, and particularly if you are
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: of African American or African descent, you need a shitload
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: more sun exposure.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Right. That that's key.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: Is I think doing or greeting your sun exposure based
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: on your skin type?
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I think yes, really important skin, skin type and location. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: for sure.
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: Okay, so let's not let's talk about grounding and earthing,
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: right because when I first heard about this, I gotta say,
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: I was like, that is fluffy bullshit, And then I
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: actually dug into some of the research and had my
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: mind opened pretty wide. So talk to us about the
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: benefits of being in contact with the surfaces of the earth.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Grounding is something that's becoming quite popular. It seems to
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: be of interest to many people. Is because when I'm
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: asked to talk about the book Invariable Master talk about
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: grounding or earthing because that's what they're interested in, and
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: they do it themselves. We're taking the shoes off and
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: they're standing barefooted on grass or sand or the dirt
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: and just getting the sensation through the feet to feel
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: can you describe it as a sensation or feeling grounded?
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: And people say it makes them feel better now like you.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: When I first heard about it, I thought, oh, yeah, right,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: it's a bit like sort of those foots so a
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: bit worrier. You can put your foot in the soak
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: and get all the toxins out and all this sort
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: of stuff. But there does seem to be something in
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: it in that it does sort of connect us. And
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: what's really interesting is that we need connection with the
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: soil in particular to boost our own immune system. And
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: I found that really fascinating that people who live in
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: areas where they have more opportunities, if you like, for
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: being grounded or in contact with the soil, actually have
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: stronger immune systems. They don't get as many allergies or
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: asthma and things like that. And what better thing to do, then,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: you know, if you want to be fitter and stronger
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: and not get sick so often, is just gone for
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: a little play in your flower bed.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: And we see pretty strongly that that kids who are
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: brought up in the country and particularly on farms, Yes,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: has much better immune systems, much less allergies, much less
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: asthma than city kids. Yeah yeah, and even you know,
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: growing up with animals as well. And what I found
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: really interesting I did a short wisdom Wednesday on it
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: is that just walking through a forest we actually absorb
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: some of the microbiome from the forest. And even and
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: you know, I'm very lucky because the beach is just
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: down there and I'll often have my dogs down there
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: in the morning. It's just walking along the beach, you
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: actually absorb some of the microbiome from the ocean, and
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: that actually diversifies our microbiome. Like that is just it's
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: mind boggling, isn't it.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: I blew my mind to know that we need that
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: interaction between the planets microbiome if you want to call
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: it that, or risesome or whatever you want to call it,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: in order to strengthen our own microbiome. I mean, that
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: is insane, right.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: We are very clearly a super ecosystem. I used to
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: talk about by us being an ecosystem and talk about
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: our microband, but we are. The evidence is very very
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: strong now, and I think your book really doubles down
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: on this. We're not just an ecosystem. We're a super
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: ecosystem that we interact with nature and have many, many
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: benefits from those interactions.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: It's similar that like grounding that the fighters sides that
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: are produced has volatile compounds from trees that we inhale
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: or sit on our skin do the same thing. I'll
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: really stimulate the immune system and calm the blood pressure,
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. So you're getting the benefit of
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: so many different things happening simultaneously simply by getting outside
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: and going for a walk in a natural environment.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know what, I used to go out
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: and take my dogs out for the morning, and I
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: used to listen to podcasts because I don't get a
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: lot of time to listen to podcasts. But you know,
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: for a while, there's a few times I would forget
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: my headphones and forget my phone or whatever.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: And I actually note over time that I felt better
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: and I couldn't really put.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: My finger on it, and then you know, it was
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: just Carly's the one. You know, she she's much more
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: into mindfulness than I am. But she's influenced me pretty
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: well that now I don't actually take my headphones out,
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: I don't take my phone out. I just go out
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: and I just try to use my senses as she
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: talked about, and it just it's a such a good
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: frigging start to the day, particularly when you're up before
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: other people, the son's just coming up. You know, there's
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: something magical about it, isn't there?
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Absolutely? And they've actually done research to demonstrate the difference
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: between going for a walk with your head your ear
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: pods in to listen to a podcast or music, or
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: answering your phone or sending a text when you're outside
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: compared to not and there's there's a stark difference in
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: the same way that we know there's a difference between
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: how you feel after walking in a natural environment or
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: in an urban environment just walking down a busy street.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: You don't marvelous or change in the positive way by
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: doing that. If you're in a natural environment but you're
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: still engaged with that music, podcast, whatever, you're missing out
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: on what the nature can provide you. It diminishes the
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: positive impact of it.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: And is that have they dug into that?
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: Is that more about just the benefits of being mindful
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: and interacting consciously with nature.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: Is that what's driving it?
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: I think that's the case. Yes, because again, your your
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: focus becomes what you're hearing between years or looking at
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: on a small screen.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Again, yeah, because whenever.
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and even when you're listening, you're not
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: really paying so much attention visually, right, that's right.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the blinkers come back on.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: As soon as we're on our phone, Like a horse
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: with blink.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: We stop seeing. And they know. They ask people to
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: recall things that they had actually noticed during their walk,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: and people who've been on their phone could remember far
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: less than those people.
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: That have interesting So let's let's talk about what people
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: can do. So you know, if they've got half a
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: brilliant they should be going, I need to spend more
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: time in nature. So what sort of practical steps can
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: people do, because I know you're right about this in
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: your book, to just bring more nature into their lives.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: You know, maybe talk about people who kind of live
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: somewhere rural like me, and then city.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Dwellers who've got less opportunities.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So the rural dwellers obviously had an advantage because
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: you've got greenery or blue stuff around you and that's
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: automatically going to put you at a huge advantage because
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: you fall over nature wherever you go.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as long as you get your head out of
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: your bloody she you do.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: You do have to get your head out of the
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: bloody screen. Absolutely. The city dwellers have to make the
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: intentional choice to get outside more. We know so from
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: studies from University of Exeter that the minimum amount of
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: time we need for our mental well being out from
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: time outdoors is one hundred and twenty minutes a week,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: all right, nothing, one hundred and twenty minutes a week.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: That's seventeen minutes and a few seconds. So my recommendation
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: is we all need to find create make time for
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: twenty minutes a day outside regardless of the weather. I mean,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: if it's fifty degrees centigrade, maybe not, or if you're
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: in the middle of a hurricane, maybe not. But otherwise
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: we can all find make the time to be outside
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: for that time because that's what we need to boost
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: our mental wellbeing and start the process of less stress,
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: less information, less risk of chronic disease developing. So, if
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: you live in a space where you've got access to
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: a local park nearby, that's a perfect place to start.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: The greater the diversity within that green space, the better.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: But obviously that's going to depend on where you live.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Obviously, if you're living in a rural area, you're going
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: to have much more biodiversity available to you. In a city,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: maybe less. But if you've got a botanic garden, a
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: reasonable garden nearby, even if it's just got sort of
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: children's playground in it, it's better than nothing. And if
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: you've got difficulty accessing getting outside, then bring nature in.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: And this is where biophilic design as it's called, really
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: comes to play. Where you lay out plants within your
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: house or on your back patio so that you can
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: see the greenery, and you can sort of use natural
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: elements such as stone or like you said, you've got
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: wooden floors, stone, anything that's made of a natural fabric.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: All these things can contribute to that sense of this
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: is pleasing, This is esthetically pleasing to me. So office
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: designers will often now include living walls, little green nooks.
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: And they improve people's well being significantly. I've seen the research.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, we keep talking about we need
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: to get workplace health and well being sorted well, the
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: easiest thing to do is to put in big windows,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: preferably with natural light and plenty of greenery to either
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: look out on or you've got within your working space
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: as well. Makes a huge difference to how we feel,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: to how we function, how we think, and how productive
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: we are. And of course, if you're feeling better about
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: things in general, you're more productive, you do better, and
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: you might actually want to stay put in that job
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: for longer. So there's lots of reasons why it's a
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: good idea.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: And here's the thing.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: If you're happier and more productive, you get more shit
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: done in less time, and then you have more time
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: to contribute to that twenty minutes at least outside in nature,
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: and then you're on lily upwards vortex, not a downward spiral.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yep, totally yeah. Yeah.
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: And I remember seeing research on people in hospital that
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: if they could see out a window and see nature,
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: their recovery time was so much quicker, and they were
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: out of the hospital a lot quicker than people who
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: were stuck and didn't have access to a window or
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: can see outside and couldn't see nature.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: It's true, and yet still we have places within hospitals
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: which are meant to be healing places where that's not available.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: And one lady was actually telling me earlier today her
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: husband was badly injured in an accident and ended up
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: on a trauma ward where there were no windows at all.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: He didn't know if it was day or night. He
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: couldn't see anything. He was in terrible pain, and she
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: said she asked the staff, she said, can he please
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: be moved to a place where he can at least
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: have access to a window to look out on something,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: And to their credit, they did, and all of a
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: sudd sudden, he was better able to manage his pain
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: more effectively because he could start to see the difference
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: between day and night, and the impact that had on
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: his healing journey. You know, as he recovered from his injuries.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: We underestimate how important being connected to the outside world
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: is to us. We grossly underestimated.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: And the other thing about hospitals as well. People are
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: in there, they're going through surgery.
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: You know, they've got something seriously wrong with them, and
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: what do they do They feed them ultra process shit.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Don't get me started on that. I think we both
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: agree that that's not the best way to help people recover.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: So Jenny, talk to us about your personal routine, right,
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: just kind of close things out a little bit, you know,
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: you said to you get up in the morning, you
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: have your cup of tea, and you go and you
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: sit in your parl.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: And you connect with nature. What other sort of stuff
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: you do? You do?
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: And and actually, by the way, I remember talking to
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: professor Ken Mogi from Japan who is a describes himself
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: as a rock star neuroscientist. Right, he's written over one
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: hundred books.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and know crazy, right, and it's brilliant. The guy
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: is brilliant and.
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: Wrote a book on Ikey Guy and I was interviewing
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: him around Dicky Guy, and he says, one of his
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: Ikey guys is these little moments of joy is he
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: makes his tea in the market where it was tear coffee,
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: but he makes it and they sits down with a
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: little square of chocolate and he enjoys it all mindfully. Right,
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: So you're you've got your little Ikey guy to kick. Yes,
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: what does the rest of the routine look like.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: Well, we've got two very exuberant Visla dogs.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: They're mad as a box of frogs. Fistless. They are.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: They gorgeous, but they certainly keep.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: You on your toes.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: There's plenty of energy and they they they have to have,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: you know, two long walks a day, so we get
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: outside twice a day to walk our dogs. And I
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: think it's interacting with them. They are they're called teflon
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: dogs because they just want to be with you and
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: on you, sit on your head or whatever. So they
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: they're very sort of tactile, and there's nothing more pleasurable
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: than stroking their silky ears when they're sitting on your
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: lap at night. It's that's that's that's something that's part
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: of my routine. But seeing the joy that they have
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: when they're bouncing around doing their doggy thing is gives
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: me joy as well. So it's that interaction that you get.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: You get so much joy and pleasure from other people,
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: but also from our pets or seeing wildlife out there.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: So I love going for our daily walks. I enjoy kayaking.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: I took up kayaking about two years ago now, and
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: there's there's something very magical about slipping into a boat
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: onto a river and just gliding down very peacefully. And
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: I mean the Swan River in perth Is. You got
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: the CBD and or high rise and all this sort
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: of stuff, and yet just around the corner there's an
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: ospray nest, there's seals, there's dolphins, the occasional bullshark.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: I was about to say, just on capsize on your
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: there's bull sharks in the Swan River as well.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: Right, That's just something that just gives me joy as well.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: So apart from the little things that I like to
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: do every day like that, it's about scheduling in regular
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: times away from the city. So both my husband and
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: I are both very keen bush campers. So we just
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: load up the car. We used to load up the kids,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: but they've grown up now so they don't want to
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: come with us anymore, which is sad, take the tent
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: to take everything we need and we just head out
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: into the never never for a couple of weeks.
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: Oh wow, and you said at tent to your proper campers,
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: you're like a UK company at remember I remember saying
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: with Sweden said yeah, we're going camping and went and
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: stayedian camp and so I'm like, this isn't camping.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: No, we are on the ground intense and there's something
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, the Australian bush is just so spectacular. I
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: mean the sense of ore that I get from being
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: out there when you've just got the she oaks and
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: the and the bright orange sand and this beautiful night
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: sky with the Milky Way and everything, it's just sheer magic.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we can't do that every day, but
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: we get our top ups, so I see it as
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: a top up of goodness, goodnats you goodness.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: I think there's there's something really magical around, like the
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: night sky and just just getting to look up and
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: see the stars and and occasionally seeing a shooting star,
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: you know. And if you live anyone in the study,
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: you've got to get out of it, right, You've got
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: to get out and get into the bush and go camping.
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: But there is just something magical about lying there and
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: looking up and.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: Going, holy shit, how small are we really?
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's actually reassuring as well, because it's there,
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: It's always there, and it just gets to give us
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: a sense of constancy. It's it's very yeah, reassuring, I
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: find very cool.
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: So, Jenny, are you still taking patients on and if so,
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: is it just face to face or do you do
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: over distance?
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Learning.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: And then also on top of that, I know you
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: do corporate speaking, so and there's quite a few corporates
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: who listens to this work.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Can people go to book you in either for corporate
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: talk or to look at your services and buy your book?
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: Sure? Easiest by this is my website which is simply
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: doctor Jenny Brocks.
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: Dot com and that's b R O k I S.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: B r O c k I S. There you go
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: like Brock the Badger, right, So Brock is and my
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: major sand pit for connecting is LinkedIn something I like.
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: It very cool, So go go and play in the sandpit.
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: People that Jenny Brockers sent it on LinkedIn and booger
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: in for a talk for your organization and just to
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: really understand the benefits of being in nature and and.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: Get the book.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: And the book is called The Natural Advantage by doctor
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: Jenny Brocus.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for our conversation, Paul. It's been delightful.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's been bloody awesome. Thanks Jenny, Thank you.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: Ka