Latest / The Complete Agent - The Podcast For Premium Real Estate Agents / 138. 90 Days to Turn Your Estate Agency Around: More Instructions, More Sales, Better Results

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138. 90 Days to Turn Your Estate Agency Around: More Instructions, More Sales, Better Results · The Complete Agent - The Podcast For Premium Real Estate Agents

• JK: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Complete Agent Podcast, where each week we get together to talk all things estate agency. I'm James Kendall, and I'm delighted to be joined by my esteemed colleague, the we are the glue that holds TCA together, Michelle Smith. How are you, Michelle? How's your week been? Michelle Smith: Good morning. Good morning, JK. Yeah, my week has been good, varied. I've had loads of coaching clients this week on Zoom and I've been doing some business development work for the TCA membership, which is great because you get to speak to other agents outside our community. So yeah, busy week. How about you? JK: Yeah, yeah, good. I mean, to be fair, we've we're getting some deals done. It's we're gonna obviously unpack this on the podcast. And we've been in the trenches recently, you know, the market really has turned, I think, for a lot of people. having so many conversations with different agents up and down the country at the moment, and even locally, where people just don't even feel like they can buy a sale at the moment. it is it is a tough time. I think there's people holding out for the budget. I think the biggest thing is is there's huge disparity between expectations and the market. and it's just bridging those gaps between what sellers perceive their home should be worth and the value that buyers place on the homes. With the current mortgage situation, we went into some of the data actually yesterday evening with some of the members. And you know you you there's if you look back at twenty twenty two, you know, May twenty twenty two, the average mortgage rate I probably should have got it up in front of me while I was talking, but for a 75% LTV, it was something like 2.62%. And I think it was 3.26% for somebody on 95% LTV. and if you look at where the market's going in the next sort of six to maybe twelve months, the people that are on cheap money from 2022, they're the ones that are gonna be in serious trouble Michelle Smith: Mm. JK: next year. And You look at for for effectively the same house, you're paying four, five hundred pounds a month more. on a on a house that let's say, you know, three hundred three hundred K mortgage. So let's say a f three fifty, four hundred K house, you know, four hundred pounds, five hundred pounds a month, you know, and and every and everything else has got more expensive in that time as well. you look at aggregated inflation, like thirty six, thirty seven percent at the moment. you know, th the cost of living has got more expensive. So I can see a fair few possibly coming back to market. but where I think the real I think struggles are gonna happen for people are those people that really over leveraged in COVID, you know, moved out of the city, and took advantage of the cheap money and took six hundred, seven hundred, eight hundred thousand pound mortgages, you know, some in some cases, million pound mortgages. And you look at where they're at on two percent, to where they're gonna then be at w by the time they've come out of their product at, you know, maybe five and a half percent, looking at the current projections, Michelle Smith: Yeah. JK: you know, that's not an insignificant amount of money. Michelle Smith: No, no, it's not. And I think I was speaking to a coaching client yesterday who'd actually just been to a 2 million pound repo. Yeah, I know. JK: wow. Started already. Michelle Smith: Yep, yep. So, you know, it is, you know, anybody who's been in this game a long time, there's many times we can kind of look back and you do get the feeling that, you know, this can be quite significant. You know, what is going to happen and this is the market where good agents can really, really do well because buyers and sellers need a professional steady hand and they need somebody who understands the strategy and how to get the very best out of, even if it's a terrible situation, how to get the very best out of it for the seller. Interesting times, JK. JK: It's interesting looking at the the data as well. So I've I've pulled a lot of it together in sort of various AI programs and and that and that's one of the things I think A A AI excels at. so if you look at Michelle Smith: didn't know you liked AI. JK: Yana, who'd have thought? there's actually this recording thing that you can get that I'll tell you about later on. Michelle Smith: Shuttle. That's the only bit of AI advice I've ever given in my life and I'm hanging my hat on it. JK: Do know what? You are basically the new Steve Jobs. Like you just need to get yourself this roll neck. That's it. You're the new CTO. Ian's fired. Michelle Smith: I am, just call me CTO. Yeah, absolutely, I'm in. I'm in. JK: so in HMRC actually recorded 96,250 UK sales in August. that's down 11% on July, and then 9% down on last August. so it's there's this few the thing is there's fewer buyers in the market, but stock is still at 12 year high. so There's still a lot of people that are are out there buying, but also there's there's more people selling. So whether people like to admit it or not, it's actually much more weighted to a buyer's market. And you just got to look at the mortgage deals that are out there. you know, that there's start of September, there were like nearly fifteen hundred sub five percent deals, whereas now there aren't any. then you've got you look at what the the BOE's doing, you know, a lot of the places have a lot a lot of the banks, sorry, the places banks have priced in basically a a an effectively a half percent increase. You look at the geopolitical picture, you look at, you know, Japan, you look at Europe, you look at America, everyone's raising rates, even Australia, you know, you I follow some of the Australian influences and rates are sort of rocketing up there as well. and the other thing as well is government borrowing is at the same level that it was in the last recession, you know, when we had the the GFC in in 2008. So, you know, the the conversation that people need to be having with clients is, you know, now is not the time to, you know, test the market with a with a high figure. You've got to get real because otherwise if you don't get real, you're gonna have you're gonna have a problem on your hands and that's where the sales are going to fall down. Michelle Smith: It is. And this just reminds me, I mean, this is so cheery, isn't it? But this just reminds JK: Yeah. Michelle Smith: me, had a coaching call on Monday with a client and they are going into front rooms and you've got other agents who are literally still talking the market up. So when they come in with their real professional kind of dose of realism, it just... doesn't land right, because if somebody isn't educated in the market and what's happening in the wider economy, they will take on face value what somebody is saying. So, JK: Mm. Michelle Smith: you know, people like to believe that their house is worth a higher amount and that the market will support that and they will sell them obviously till they're signed in a contract and they'll then get reduced. So it's very much about mindset and framing. I know I always talk about framing, but it's how do you get your message across of being a safe pair of hands and a strategist to get the best outcome whilst you know that you're being faced with people who are gonna go up against you and are being super positive and really just talking a lot of bull. So it is interesting, really interesting. As I said, there is so much in this market that you can do to kind of push forward. And I think that's where the value is really. The situation that we're operating in is the situation we cannot control that. What we can control is what we do on a day to day. JK: Yeah, a hundred percent. And so so today's podcast topic is framed around ninety days to turn your estate agency around. So, how to get more instructions, how to generate more sales, rebuild momentum when the market feels against you. you know, there's a lot of negativity around the market, as you've just said. And there's a lot of agents who are struggling and they don't necessarily need a conversation from us about you know, charging two percent or br you know, building a premium brand. I think This can be a real practical sort of toolkit podcast this week in terms of how you can actually turn things around. So if you are struggling with with sales at the moment and you know, your pipeline isn't where you would like it to be, you know, almost a little bit go back to basics. But sometimes, you know, we we've said on the podcast before, you know, repeating ourselves over and over and over. But a state agency is repetitive, you know, it is You know, things do change in the middle. Sometimes things get slightly better. You learn a new skill, you learn a new technique, but it is repeatable. and that's where consistency comes in. so I think let's, as you know, I like to do, unpack things. so days one to thirty, I think it's all about d I mean, Michelle, you're you're excellent at doing this as well. And we we've done some of implanted actually some of these sort of techniques and looked at my own business w in in terms of being even more proactive than we already are. So, you know, if you let's say for example, you took over an agency tomorrow and they hadn't won an instruction in three weeks, what would you do first? Michelle Smith: First of all, I would understand actually what's happening in the agency. So I would look at the numbers and see where the main leaks are. So I do this with clients all the time when we workshop because it's really important to know where to look first. You want to do something that's going to have a high value impact quite quickly because that gets the team on board and embedded too. So I would... Look at all the numbers. So things like valuations booked, valuations attended, instructions, know, sale agreed, exchanged, et cetera, just as the headline ones, you can go into a bit further detail, but that they are kind of the top ones and see where the main issues are. So it could be that they, you know, book absolutely loads of valuations. But they're just not instructing enough. It could be that they have a really high cancellation rate. It could be that, you know, the pipeline is weak and things are falling through or the actual percentage pipeline turn is not where it needs to be. So it's taking too long to get from sale agreed out of the pipeline, which there's multiple factors. getting a really, really clear picture. of where the business is on the numbers and where the quick wins are is number one. Number two is understanding the morale, culture and mindset of the people who are working in the business each day. JK: So how would you do that? Talk me through that. Michelle Smith: so a lot of it is if I'm working with a client, it would be kind of done through informal conversation, it would be done through workshopping tools, getting their kind of buying of where the business is strong, where the business needs to be better and really kind of understanding what they think the issues are within the business. That does tell you a lot, but the real... JK: So you so you you say on your team, sorry, it's just y you were saying you'd ask the the team what they think and then Michelle Smith: Yeah. JK: sort of get feedback from them and then yeah, sorry, deep deep dive into that. So gone, beg your pardon, you're midway through sentence. Michelle Smith: No, no, no, it's fine. So that it does tell you a lot because people don't generally talk about that type of stuff in the day to day. and also when a business owner is asking, they generally don't always get a true reflection of, of how people feel. So, for lots of different reasons, but that's a whole other podcast. So I would do those two things together. So understand the number. Yeah, JK: So you need to diagnose really before you start prescribing. Michelle Smith: definitely, definitely. And what people sometimes think the problem is, isn't the problem, that's a symptom. JK: Yeah. So can you give an example of that? Michelle Smith: Yeah, so, you know, one of the most common things is we're not selling enough. We're not good at selling. So through doing kind of a deep dive, you might actually find that there's pressure on a lister to get things listed and on the market and what that actually, the behaviour that that's creating. is that they're putting things on too high just to win the business and there's no client management or nurture that is effective in realigning sellers expectations. So one issue actually when it's unpicked can be lots of different issues. JK: Okay. so let's move on to something more practical then. So we've we've kind of diagnosed a little bit, but we need to get a result. What do you think are the fastest ways to generate valuation opportunities without spending a fortune? I mean I'm I I think I can recommend a few things here, but I asked you the question first. Michelle Smith: Obviously you joined TCA, wouldn't you? And you had to get, do all the kind of marketing campaigns. There we go. Thank you very much. You're done. JK: Yeah. That's it, and that's the end of the podcast. Thanks everyone for joining us. No. Michelle Smith: Do you know what? I think there is so much value in real intentional database work. And it's the stuff that people can be really turned off by, you know, understanding your database, understanding where the business opportunities are. I would go, I mean, you're saying valuation work, but it could be that, you know, you've got decent instructions and you're still booking, valuations, but they're just not getting through and getting to sale agreed. So in this type of market, a really good place to start is by a journey and by work. it does so many different things. do you know what, in fact, I was in there, I mean, loads of like. property forums, but for people who are looking to buy property. And I saw about four posts this week, like, we have a deposit we want to buy, I cannot get any agents call me back. And I'm thinking, JK: Yeah. Michelle Smith: what? You know, is that really what is happening? It's such a missed opportunity because don't forget, buyers are nervous, you know. It is, the market is what it is. You have to be the port in a storm and you have to provide guidance, reassurance, confidence, education to sellers, and buyers, some practical things. You know, you need a board of the 10 hot buyers that are going to buy a property this week or next week. And you are, you know everything about them. That board is a working thing, bring it to your morning meeting, talk about those buyers, it will jog the memory of the valuers. You know, what have you been to that potentially could work for this buyer? They are going to buy this week. Can we get into that property that you valued and even sign a one viewing contract? Think outside the box. It doesn't just have to follow normal process. This is the market where deals have to be created. And it takes that level of focus on your buyers to facilitate that. So definite hot buyer board is number one. I also, some, I know some CRMs have the ability to flag hot buyers, but what you actually end up with is a thousand hot buyers. JK: Yeah. Michelle Smith: So get them out, make it touchable, seeable, know, carry those buyers around on a whiteboard. Yeah. Who is? JK: Who's gonna buy a house this week? Like you said, who's gonna buy a house this week? Michelle Smith: Yeah. What are they viewing with other people? What is your local market intel that you get directly from these buyers? Because it's all well and good understanding what's happening nationally and regionally, but do you know what is in the buyer's brain, the people that are buying in your hyperlocal market? Ask them the question. How do you feel about the market? What are you noticing when you're viewing with other people? I am also passionate about bio work. think it unlocks so much and it just stands you well apart from your competitors and it's often overlooked. JK: It's about asking the right questions as well. Like don't don't pick up the phone and go, Are you still looking? Yeah, we're still looking. All right, brilliant. Thank you. Like hang up. You know. Michelle Smith: Yeah. JK: okay. So what have you seen lately that that looks good? Anything that you you would have bought? Anything you missed out on? No, not really. Nothing that's really taken my fancy. Have you seen anything that's been online maybe when you weren't in a position that you would have bought? What what is there on the market? Is there anything on the market that you would have bought like that you've that you've seen? yes, it's this. Okay, and why didn't you buy that? well, I was outbid on price. Okay, so maybe you need to realign your expectations on you know what what that's gonna go for. you know, if I could find you something similar to this, would would you be interested in coming to see it? yes, I would. Brilliant. Okay, well, f social media post. I've got a hot buyer, or I've got a buyer, Mr. and Mrs. or you know, Michelle and Ian are looking for or Michelle and Dave or James and Dave are looking for a four bedroom detached. They've missed out on one in da da da da da. Like, if you know anyone that's considering a sale, reach out to me in confidence and we can connect the two parties together. so it there's the thing is you then get the buyer buy in because they know that you're actually genuinely trying to help them. you can also get an instruction off the back of it as well and talk to people that are potentially thinking about selling. Then there's also like you're speaking to local houses to sell in your system. You know, what have they got? Like the other the smart thing, I remember when I worked in a recession in two thousand and well, two thousand and nine. The recession happened in two thousand and eight. I remember two thousand and nine, that market. and I remember getting so many deals done. and I quoted Dave last night in our WhatsApp chat. a seller doesn't know what they're gonna accept until it's real and they can touch it. Michelle Smith: Mm. JK: But I got so many deals done back in the day. Where I had a buyer, for example, looking up to 800 and a house on 875, and we would do a deal at 810, where the buyer would go, I'm not gonna accept that. And the sellers, sellers goes, Well, you know, I I wouldn't sell it for any less than 830, 840. All of a sudden, you bring them round, they offer eight ten, and then they think about it overnight and they go, Do you what? We're gonna go for it. And and and Michelle Smith: Yeah. JK: the deal's done. because then You know, what they had their expectations set on at buying, I don't know, a million and fifty, you know, the one that's on at one point one can now be bought for a million. it's Michelle Smith: Yeah. JK: just making the most of that market because, you know, if everyone could put the houses on at the right prices, then the market would be easy. But it's just thinking outside the box and even asking your own team, you know, what sells this house? You know, it's conversations we have in the office sometimes with the with the stuff that we've got sticking. You know, it's on a I don't know. 1.5, you know, what do you think sells it tomorrow? well, million sells it tomorrow. Well, yeah, of course it does. What sells it in the next few weeks offers over 1.25. Great. Okay, well, maybe that's a conversation we need to be having with the client then. so and it's not just about chopping the price until summer buys it, because you've got, you know, a lot of unique we we sell a lot of unique stuff. And, you know, sometimes you are dealing with a five percent pool of the market. that are in the market to buy a grade two listed place on three acres. You know, not everyone's going to want a grade two listed thatched place on three acres. you know, the majority of the market is going to be looking for something that the majority of the market wants. you know, that doesn't mean it has to be the low end, but you know, even that mid market from six hundred to, you know, a million quid, there's a lot of people in that sort of space. But there's a lot of disparity in what prices are and what people are prepared to pay. Michelle Smith: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that. And I think that there has to be some work done with your team to widen their filters of getting the people through the front door. And there's a few practical things you can do. Firstly, I recommend that everybody visits the house that is going to be sold. You can speak so much more energetically and passionately about a home that you have been to and you know about. and people are going to have to sell homes. This is the market. You need to sell it to the people that you're speaking to on the phone. So that's the first thing. But secondly, you know, don't discount people from being potential buyers. So you might have somebody who says that they're looking for X and this is kind of X and a half or a Y even. still talk to them about it, tell them what could happen with it, even if it's not quite on the right price bracket for them, still have a conversation with them. You would be so surprised about what actually people end up buying compared to their very first registration on a applicant card. Often it's very different, so you need to be part of that. kind of change and decision making process, because it will, you can't just go off the information that they provided at the start. Experience will realign their expectations, even you can realign their expectations when you have a good relationship with them. yeah, real in-depth buyer work can unlock so much. And I tell you what I love, I love working with agents and they've got reviews which say didn't even sell through exit agents. but they were fantastic. I didn't even buy through them because we found a house elsewhere, but their client care was unreal. know, it just takes more of that and you will definitely get more through to kind of sailor greed. That's the attitude that your team need to have. JK: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. So we kind of briefly touched on turning existing stock into sales within the next thirty days. but I think just to sort of cap off on that bit, I think what you need to do is audit every unsold property and look at, you know, what what does it sell for? But also equally, you know, what what can we be doing? And this is an exercise we did with our team, didn't we? in terms of what can be done. in in order to generate more interest on this property rather than just changing the price, you know, who else can we reach out to? What else can we do to think outside the box to generate interest in that property? Who who can we give it to? you know, who who we can we collaborate with? There there's so many things you have to look at before you do, you know, the, you know, you can't just do price, price, price, because you know, anyone can do that. but you know look at the presentation, where is it promoted? and then then you've got to look at, you know, obviously we we talk about the four Ps, presentation, promotion, patience and then price. And I think it should be in that order. And then obviously if it if if you know it needs to change on price, if the seller can see and you've been consistently speaking to them for every week and updating them, then you know they're much more open to, you know, and and I think you you said it before the price conversation should never be a surprise. Michelle Smith: No. No. JK: You know, they they should be fully invested and know that right, well, these guys are on this, you know, they've given it to other agents and offered to collaborate with other agents. They've, you know, thoughts outside the box and done this on social media, they've done that, they've come back, they've, you know, everyone's come to see the house. you know, they've they've they've really tried and they can they can see that, you know, there is no silver bullet, you know, there isn't anything that we can magically conjure up to Michelle Smith: Hmm. JK: all of a sudden create buyer out of thin air that, you know, we haven't tried already. And then it the the conversation's much easier. But then you also equally, I think you do have to be very stern and informed on on price because there's no point in going from a million quid to offers over nine eighty. It's a waste of time. It needs Michelle Smith: No. No. JK: to be a meaningful price realignment. So, you know, does it get you into a new listing on right move? So what or r a refresh into the email alerts? So, you know, are you reducing by over two percent? But I think any meaningful reduction at that level at or any level in fact needs to be a minimum, a bare minimum of five percent. so in terms of the four Ps, so one one more question before we start to move on. what would you stop doing immediately? Michelle Smith: I would stop. one thing that's just popped to mind, a database cleanse. heard that recently. JK: Yeah. Michelle Smith: God. you know, we're quiet. Let's tidy up the database. that I would definitely stop doing that. So, you know, it's I'm quiet. Let's maximize the database, you know, not, not cleanse it. It's not an admin job. so that's. JK: Yeah. Yeah, Cleanse sounds very sterile, doesn't it? Michelle Smith: Well, it tells me that they're in process and admin. They're not, they are not in a sales mind frame. So that is the first thing I would stop. JK: I I think the other thing as well is that it's very easy to look busy sometimes. And I think you need you need what you need to do is be very honest and audit yourself and go, is what I'm doing today going to move the business forward? You know, so you know, unnecessary meetings, unfocused social media activity, you know, maybe chasing unqualified leads as possibilities to to challenge rather than just assuming You know, they're always wasteful. You know, that that mindset that you said, Michelle, get into that right sort of frame of mind. So let's move on to creating momentum then. So if you had to win, I mean, it might not necessarily have to be new instructions, but if you had to win five new instructions in the next thirty days, where would you focus your effort? Michelle Smith: So it's about having a joined up approach to it. So, you know, you need to make noise and what I mean by that is strategic noise. So if I wanted to get five instructions, I would be looking at things that are already on the market and, you know, ones that are the type of home that I want to market. And I would have a really structured approach in getting those, not the generic. you know, I've got a hot buyer for your home, you know, on that lovely comp slip or typed. JK: So you wouldn't do a a leaflet that says free no obligation valuation to ten thousand homes. Michelle Smith: Well, actually that is what I was going to suggest next. You've just stolen my thunder. JK: Yeah, that'll work. Michelle Smith: Yeah, definitely. So, I'd have a strategic plan. So you have to think, what is my intention? I have absolutely loved seeing our members implement some tactics and getting out into the local area using social media as a tool to capture on market. properties, it's so powerful. That along with some direct mail that's curated for the type of home that I want and being really consistent, also really working the local house to sell that I've already got registered. And I would make the focus very clear to the team of this is what we're doing, this is what we're aiming for. And I would keep the conversation in the office focused on that. energy flows where attention goes. So if you are focusing on that, that is what people will gravitate towards. What sometimes happens is there's a big kind of push and then everything else takes over. You've got to have the consistency of message within your office and your team to make sure that that behavior and that focus continues and becomes embedded. So that is what I would do. What would you add, JK? JK: Yeah, I I to be honest, not much from that really, to be fair. You know, things like direct mail, you know, and Simon Gates says and he sold it from somebody else as well. I think it was from Tom Panos that prospecting feels best when it feels like a service. I think that's the the the the the way it's kind of described. And that is the whole you know working working with buyers and local houses to sell. Trying to get them through the right doors, really asking them questions and getting granular about what it is that they actually want. but yeah, you know, what who are on the market that, you know, there's there's people that have got boards outside the front of their homes telling you that they want to sell and they're they they want to move. You know, if you haven't got them registered, you know, write to them, you know, dare I say, go and knock on the door and see what they're doing. Michelle Smith: Yeah, I was just going to say door knock. Like I have challenged a lot of my coaching clients with that. And for some people it literally strikes the fear of God in them. But if you door knock as a value added service, which is how I coach our clients to do it, it's actually a really nice experience. They are so well received. You're not knocking on the door. with, know, can I come and do evaluation on your house? You know, that isn't it. Great if you're, that is the outcome straight off, but the actual, you know, purpose behind the door knock isn't that in the first instance. JK: That's the thing, you know, you imagine just getting in with the kids from the school run. Like there's chaos all over the place. Mum, what's for dinner? Dad, or what's for dinner? and then, you know, I don't know what's for dinner, and then all of a sudden Yeah, hi, mate. Yeah, I could see your house has been for sale. You're a stage and isn't doing this, this, this you're like, Do you want to mate? Do one. Like, Michelle Smith: Yeah. JK: get g but, you know, you knock on the door and and you say, you know, I mean, there's loads of different things that that you could do, but you could just say, Just wanted to let you know. I've done this report for you on your home in ways I think you can improve the marketing. appreciate, you know, you probably got the kids and stuff here now, but just wanted to drop this off to you. I'm James. I'm I'm just in the area at another house. Here you go. Or, you know, you could knock on a sold board house and say, I noticed that, you know, I was just in the area. I drive past this house all the time. I can see it's sold now. It's a beautiful house. Don't have you on our database. Just wondered if you found somewhere and if I could if I could help you find your next house. no, we've already found some. All right, fine. No problem at all. Look, lovely to meet you. congratulations, all the best. Or it might be, well, you know, I've got the kids here. That's absolutely fine. Well look, here's my card. if you want me to help you, obviously we sell a lot of homes like this in the U and we're connected with agents around the country. So if you are looking to move for further afield, perhaps I can connect you with someone that might be able to help you. But here's my card. you know. All the best. Hopefully speak to you soon. Michelle Smith: Yeah, I love that. And I think knock on for sale boards with that service, you know, and, you know, a lot of our agents, because they use the launch strategy, they do sell off market. It doesn't even hit the portal. So you genuinely doing that seller service in finding their new property, because it might just be that the home that they want is sold off market. you know, you are providing the service. You have to go in with that mindset. And aren't they lucky? know, remember that a lot of agents don't even return a buyer's call when they're phoning about a property inquiry. You know, how lucky are they that you're bringing that service to their door? And you know, JK: Hundred percent. Michelle Smith: yeah, that's the mindset to approach it with. JK: So do you think agents are losing instructions because there aren't enough opportunities or because they're not converting the opportunities they have? Michelle Smith: The latter. The latter. It doesn't always feel that way, I've got to say. But actually, there's so much that can be done. And I think the key for agents right now is you've got to hold steady. Like, you cannot let your mind go, your mindset go. You have to take control of the market. And at the beginning when I said, you know, great, agents really prosper. It's because they can communicate their understanding of the market and give comfort with a strategic approach. That is the key. you know, that's where the work comes for the agent. It's how are we communicating what's happening and how am I guiding and providing comfort with the strategic approach we're going to take to get you the best result that we can in these market conditions. JK: Exactly that. And I and I think, you know, you you you've got to look at on on the evaluation appointment itself, you know, what are you sending out beforehand, what are people seeing beforehand, how are you preparing, what pricing advice you're giving, you know, is there a detailed selling plan? What's your follow up like? y you know, really audit where and why you aren't converted. I mean, you know, sometimes you and you're not gonna win them all. I went to one the other day, to be honest, it wasn't really one that we would want to sell, but they were looking at one through us. And I thought, well, we'll have c control over the whole chain. And it the house was okay. Don't get me wrong. It wasn't it wasn't really a JK house, but it w it would have slotted in. It was a modern house. but the biggest thing I had was is that it was, yeah, we want to get it on tomorrow. and I was like, we we can't we can't do that. We can't just get it on tomorrow. and they'd had another agent out and Who'd taken the photos with their phone and drawn a floor plan while they were there and said, you know, we can have it on for you tomorrow. by the way, we're naught point nine percent inclusive of VAT, and we've got buyers. And and it just sometimes there's no as much as we say with TCA, you know, this is this is how to do evaluation. Sometimes some sellers just aren't interested in in the value that you can provide. They're in their head, They're not prepared to listen to the education. they're not your client. And it goes in one ear, all they really are hearing is how quickly can you get me on? How cheap are you going to do it? And how much are you going to get get from a house? but then equally, you know, another house that I've been to is coming on. And that, you know, we we sat there talking for two hours and they they really wanted to get him, you know, underneath the whole What what is the strategy? Brilliant. Okay. Well, we've seen the social media preview. how does that work? Why do you not put the price on there? Well, this is why we don't put the price on there. So they were really interested in the method and the process and had really kind of bought into what we do. then it was much easier. You know, when I said, you know, we asked for the thousand pound plus that up front and a two percent fee, it was, well, yeah, it's not it wasn't even a conversation. It wasn't even questioned. It was just, yeah, let's let's get going and let's get Michelle Smith: Thank JK: it signed up. so You know, not every homeowner is your client. but also equally you do still need to make sure that you are doing things the right way to in order to convert the ones that you definitely do want. so what Michelle Smith: Agreed. JK: what you you you said something earlier, Michelle, and I appreciate we've jumped around a little bit, but I do think it it's good to kind of come on to now as well. what what do you think an agent should be saying to homeowners when the market feels difficult? You know, you can't just say it's a it's a bad market. you know, it's that that mindset, isn't it? You know, and you had some brilliant language around this before when we talked about it off air. what what should what do you think they should say? Michelle Smith: I think they need to have an honest conversation. So this is what we're experiencing in the market right now. This is what's happening nationally, but this is translating to Bedfordshire like this. So break it down of actually what is happening. So it could be that the buyers that are looking between 7.50 and a million have reduced, we're seeing that not as many buyers are coming forward and registering as much as they were six months ago. It could be that we have found that the buyers who are looking up to 750 are taking a lot longer to actually commit to buying something. You're going to get that information because your team are speaking to buyers regularly. You can confidently speak about buyer intel. What we are doing because of that is X, Y, Z. So we are making sure that we're speaking to everybody that is relevant for X. You basically need to give them the synopsis of this is what's happening. We understand what's happening is really what you're communicating. And our strategy is this to make sure that we are gonna get you the very best result. You know, you can't kind of... skirt around what's happening in the market, but you can confidently say why the advice you're giving them is the right advice to get them the best result. That's what they want from you. They don't want wishy-washiness. They want a firm firm hand. They want the strategy. They want to feel confident and comforted and we're the professional. That's what we have to give them. JK: That's it, and it's exactly that, isn't it? It's about being and I know Dave takes the mick out of me for saying it, but it's about that being that trusted advisor. you Michelle Smith: Yeah, cheers. JK: know, not just another agent begging for evaluation. Michelle Smith: Yeah, definitely, definitely. And I would also say, know, well, I wanted to say this anyway, because I've had numerous coaching clients at the moment. You must be closing in the room. This is absolutely essential and it just keeps coming up to people outside of TCA and, you know, numerous coaching clients. Don't let any opportunity slip through the net. This is the market where the net has to be tight. Nothing can slip through. And you will be going up against people who will close. They may go with a much lesser agent just because they simply asked for the business in the room. So please, please do that. If you make one change, do that. JK: And that and that's the thing, it's that natural assumptive close. I came up with a a couple of different lines that that I use personally. that I've shared with a couple of members that we've kind of spoken on one-to-one. And like it just it doesn't feel awkward. Like I I can remember when I worked at countrywide being told to close in the living room and it literally being so awkward. And like you almost feel like that, you know, that feeling sometimes you get where. how's the best way to describe it? Like if you're let's say for example you're watching a comedy show and the comedian's on stage and you heckle a comedian and everything just falls silent and you can just feel that heat of everyone looking at you. Michelle Smith: Are you talking from personal experience here, JK? This sounds like asking for a friend type of scenario. JK: yes, actually, yeah. Yeah, asking for a friend, yeah. But y but that that's how I I I would feel in those scenarios where the room falls silent and you just feel the heat and then you d you almost feel like you then try and fill the silence with the but you know, as I mean, you know, I'm going back probably gosh, when was that? Two thousand and nine. How long ago was that? That's like ten years ago, wouldn't it? If only. That that was j that was tongue Michelle Smith: No. Yeah. Come on now. Come on, grandad. JK: in cheek. Yeah, well, you know, nineteen ninety was twenty years ago, right? Michelle Smith: I'll tell you, I find this so interesting and this is where it goes wrong for people because like you, I have some corporate PTSD, but when I worked for a corporate, I was on my own agenda. I had really hard, high targets to meet. I had to list a certain amount of houses. And when I was in that front room, I was on my own agenda. What TCA and... you know, really good agents are about is they are on the client's agenda. So therefore a close feels like a natural progression of a professional strategic conversation. isn't something that comes in, you know, and kind JK: It's not a surprise. Michelle Smith: of, no, no, it isn't a surprise. It's the same with the price realignment conversation. It's never a surprise. So you kind of have to get out of your own way and just make it as a natural. next step in a professional conversation. People do really overthink a close JK: Yeah. Michelle Smith: for all of the reasons that we know, you know, but you are on that client's agenda. You are giving advice, which is very best placed for that client. The very best thing that you can do for that client is be the person that sells their home. discount yourself and them by not giving them that opportunity. That is the mindset that you go with and the words will follow. JK: And and the thing is, like, if you're listening to this and you don't close and you're worried about closing, like all you're doing is delaying the no, if if that's the thing. Like if you're if you don't ask for the business in the living room and you know, you you you then see it go up with another agent in a week's time, you know, you that that you just have to know then. So why not just get it in the living room when you're there? and then try and try and flip them around. So if someone says Michelle Smith: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. JK: Yeah, or you know, the whole the old classic, we you know, we need to talk about it and or you know, I need to need to speak to my my husband or I need to speak to my wife. okay. so once you've spoken to them, is there anything stopping you from going ahead? V. No. So you yeah, you just don't you're not gonna know what the objection is until you get there. And sometimes people aren't ready, but you will know that if you've asked the right questions in the beginning. If you've found out what their why is and why they're looking to make this move and w what their time scales are and you've asked all the right questions, then really there's no reason for them to go, we'll just need to think about it and then I'll come back to you. Because you'll know whether you need to speak to them now or whether you need to speak to them in a week's time or two weeks' time. Like I've got a couple that I'm hoping to to bring on board that I went to close and were like, well look, we're not ready to do the photos and stuff just this second because we're going on holiday for two weeks with the family. and we want to do it when we get back. So literally like I text them the day after they got back and said is there a good f time for us to catch up on the phone and and have a chat about it with him. And They've just said, look, just got back from holiday. Yeah, we'd love to catch up. We'll give you a a shout in the next couple of days when when we're around. So it the ask for the clo ask for the business, but then also if you can't get it then, let's get another time in the diary to to to speak to them and and close from there on in. here's a another good one for you, Michelle, in terms of mindset. How do you think you get a demotivated team believing that they can win again? Michelle Smith: demotivated team. Do you know what's really interesting when, I took over a branch when I worked for LSL and the team were the same team. They'd been, in that branch for 10 years and their previous branch manager had left and opened up an independent agency directly over the road and they had not been profitable. since and they used to be like quite a flagship branch. So when I came in to say that they were so demotivated was just unreal. know, they really, really were so deflated. And, you know, my mindset was very much, there's so much opportunity here and this These people have been part of a winning branch and they've also been part of a failing branch. So I just need to work out how to turn them back on. So it very much started with where we were. So kind of a business overview. This is where we are. And then I came back with a plan and I was really clear with what I needed each of them to do. I gave them accountability. I noticed the positive. I praised whenever they did, you know, behaviors, activities aligned with the plan. And I very quickly found a quick way to win so that they could really feel that what they were doing was making a difference and it compounds. You've just got to push the snowball up the hill and as soon as you've got over the peak, it just picks up speed. you have to find the thing that can make them experience a win. Notice what they're doing well. and be consistent with it. That branch went on to be profitable. We won all sorts of awards. Unfortunately, they didn't go to Greece on the holiday I did, but hey ho, you had a drink for all of them. No, jokes. JK: Yeah. Michelle Smith: But, you know, they literally flew. So mindset, you have to give clarity, consistency, and make sure that your attention is going on the right things. JK: Absolutely. And I think that's the thing. Like the, I think you've kind of basically said that, you know, it's all about your your daily standards. you know, celebrating useful activity, you know, the coaching accountability, and then also, you know, rebuilding the confidence of them through achievable actions. and like Michelle Smith: Yeah, definitely. JK: you say, praising that, you know, that and that's something that, you know, we I've certainly got a lot better at as well, you know, praising actions of of of people. And so I think we're we're we've come a long way. L for this last five minutes, I think really is should all be about when you know once you've done those first sixty days, the the the sort of the thirty days that follow that should all be about building consistency. And you know, once you've put those things in place and together, you know what what was it look like in day sixty? Well you know, more conversations, better follow up, clearer pipeline, better qualified valuations, improved marketing execution. it doesn't necessarily mean more completed transactions yet because we know how long things are taking at the moment. but you know, how how would you how would you stop the business going backwards when the initial enthusiasm wears off? Michelle Smith: think this actually is one of the hardest parts. So everyone can get on board with shiny new syndrome and it's all exciting. And this is the part that makes the difference. So it is about how you embed these new behaviors and approaches within your day to day. I love getting the team to decide that themselves and then scaffolding structures around it because they're the ones that are going to have to do it on the day to day. again, you know, what gets measured gets done. And, you know, if it completely goes off the business's radar, I pretty much can guarantee things will just slip. Because unless it's been embedded for a long enough time, people do just tend to slip back to what is comfortable, to what they know. You know, it goes back to neural pathways. So there has to be a system embedded that makes sure these things happen long-term and it... it comes from the leadership actually, of what questions are they asking, what are they looking at, what gets praised, what gets accepted, that is how the consistency comes. You you should have a real clear predefined standard and anything short of that just doesn't get accepted. JK: Here's a question for you then. So should an agent, and I know the answer to this question, but should an agency that's struggling just lower its fees to win more instructions? Michelle Smith: shut the front door. No, no. JK: Yeah, but if we charge less, we would get more and we'd sell more houses. Michelle Smith: God, it's just such bullshit. So when this market gets tricky, the fact that you have a good fee level is what will keep your cash going. It's essential. It's absolutely essential. In this market more than ever, you can demonstrate your value with everything that we've said, you know, understanding your market, communicating it effectively and giving a strategic approach of how you're the agent that will get the very best value for that client and the best end result. That is worth more, not less. JK: Yeah, absolutely. And that that's the thing. No, don't be tempted, you know, that it's easy to go, we could convert more. Well, you know, if you're converting between thirty and forty percent and you're halving your fee then allows you to convert at 50%, then you just end up being a busy fool. you know, you this is the market to command a higher fee. And as as you quite rightly say, that that is what will carry you forward by having a proper fee. Because, you know, in this current market where fall throughs are higher. withdrawals are higher, you know, sales are lower, you need to charge more for what you're doing, not charge less for more work. It just, you know, it doesn't just doesn't make sense. so there's an estate agent listening to this who hasn't won instruction for three weeks, has barely any sales agreed and is genuinely worried about their business. What's one thing you'd want them to do tomorrow morning? Michelle Smith: Speak to the team, quick morning meeting, know, what are we missing? What can we do better than we're doing today? Get their input, go straight into buyer work and practical action. JK: Yeah, exactly. Bio work is what's gonna carry you forward in this. You know, we did actually did do an episode on this probably gosh, it must be I wanna say it's gotta be well over a year ago now. no, Michelle Smith: I wasn't on it though, so you know. JK: it wasn't as good. I mean, this is the best one we've done. obviously. Michelle Smith: because Dave and Ian aren't here. JK: That's it exactly. Well, yeah, you'll be pleased to know those of you who have donated to the GoFundMe, get Dave off dial up. We're almost at our target. And hopefully at some point in the near future he will have a stable internet connection. but yeah, we I remember we're doing an episode, I think it was episode 86. the three moves every agent must make in the next 90 days. but I think this is much more relevant n today for what we've recorded in in the current market. and I think there's a a real practical tools and takeaway for anyone that's listening to this podcast today to be able to implement in their business. But the important thing is is you have to implement it and you do have to be consistent in order to reap a result. Michelle Smith: You do. And just one final thing, be aware of your own mindset and thoughts of the market and make sure you are communicating in the right way to your team. You will be modeling unconsciously to them. And if they feel that you're worried, you're panicking, they will absolutely feel it. So it's okay to have those feelings and you need to communicate. your strategy to the team in the same way that you would communicate strategy to your client in the front room. Don't forget that. It's really important. JK: Yeah, perfect. Well look, I think that's been a great episode. it's always a pleasure to to speak with you and it's always much better when it's just us and it's not the other two. Michelle Smith: Absolutely. JK: so Dave and Ian, I'm sure you're not listening, but if you are, we haven't missed ya. And we will see you all next week.