Latest / Heal Yourself Podcast / Episode 24: Navigating Religious Trauma

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Episode 24: Navigating Religious Trauma · Heal Yourself Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Heal Yourself Podcast, where we dive deep into all things healing.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: I'm Denise, a speech language pathologist and a self-love coach for adults and teens.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: And I'm Kira, a traditional naturopath and functional nutritionist, and we're here to guide you through the transformative process of healing your body, mind and soul From the latest in functional medicine, of healing your body, mind and soul, from the latest in functional medicine to nurturing your relationship with yourself, healing trauma and even transforming your money story.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: we're here to empower you with the knowledge and tools to create lasting change.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: So, whether you're looking to heal physically, emotionally or spiritually, join us as we explore the many paths to wholeness and wellness.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Heal Yourself Podcast.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Today you have both Denise and I and we're going to talk about something a little controversial maybe, and that's religious drama.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be controversial and it could be like a regular topic.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: I guess it could be.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: I'm calling it controversial because we may have people that listen to this and are very religious and that can be triggering for some.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: So I want to start with, maybe, our own story.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: So for those that don't know, which is probably many of you, denise and I both grew up in Catholic households.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Denise, talk to me a little bit about that.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Like, are you still Catholic?
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Do you still go to church?
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Like, give me some backstory.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, I will.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I didn't just grow up in a Catholic household, I also went to Catholic school school all my life.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: It was all girls catholic school.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: I grew up in lebanon um, it's the same school from kindergarten to high school.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: So, yes, you go to mass confession every week plus whatever.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Uh, and also I just want to kind of like mention that too, growing up in lebanon, I grew up during the war, because I was born in 1979 and I didn't leave the country until 96.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: So when I grew up we also had religious separation, meaning I only grew up and I was raised in the environment, in the area where only Catholics and Christians were right.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: I didn't go to the other side, right, because especially during the war, people crossing, like there were some kidnapping and things like that.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: So I was very sheltered, right.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: So I didn't just grow up in a Catholic household and a Catholic school, but was also a Catholic, or you want to say Christian, community, because there were another other denominations as well.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: And do I still consider myself Catholic?
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, I do.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Do I go to church?
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I go to these small, because you know every Catholic church I mean I don't know if every, but a lot of the ones that I go to.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: They have a small chapel and that is my meditation center.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: So right now I do go to the small chapel a lot more than I go to mass.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I do go to mass when I feel called for it.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: So I don't.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I don't go to mass anymore because of guilt.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: I go to mass because I want to.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: And this shift happened and I'm going to be very transparent and you and I talked about it.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: This shift happened during COVID, because I did notice the Catholic Church doing things or sticking by things that I'm like excuse me what Things that I don't agree with, and that was separated me from the institution but not from the teachings that I love.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, so I that's what I tell people right now I do Catholicism my way.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: And how about you?
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: It's funny because I grew up in a Catholic church.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: My story is different.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I mean so.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: My husband was like you, right, he went to Catholic school his whole life.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: For me it was more.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: My parents grew up I think they grew up Catholic.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: I know my mom did.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know the whole backstory, but I know that when I was like seven or eight, we started going to Catholic church and so we started doing that and I went through the whole thing.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Right, you go through communion and you go through I don't even remember everything.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: You learn about confession, you do all of these things, right.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it was actually before COVID that I started kind of questioning things.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: And it's not that I'm opposed to the Catholic faith, it's not that I'm opposed to religion, but I think that what it does to people.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: So you said something that's so powerful and that's you go because you choose to.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: And the thing is is growing up in something.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: There's not necessarily choice.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: You think it's choice, but as a kid there's not necessarily choice.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: You think it's choice, but as a kid you're indoctrinated, right, and I don't say that word in a bad way.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: That's life, right, we're indoctrinated by so many different things.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: But it's like you hear something over and over from parents, from the priest, from the minister, from whoever, and you start to think this is the only way.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: And then you think well, anything else is bad, and it's.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: It's not even your thinking anymore, it's someone else's.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: You're so right, because I honestly used to think like, oh my goodness.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my goodness, like I have, you know, the body of Christ, and then the confession, and then I have the prayer and I can go to church.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: But what about people who don't?
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: What's gonna happen to them?
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: And I used to think these things until I was like, wait a minute, my religion is not the only religion.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: That is because there's so many religion, because, yeah, I used to think that Catholicism is it and but I'm like, no, and once I got more into spirituality and I noticed other religions teachings are kind of the same thing, right, love, peace, kindness, whether it's Hinduism, buddhism, islam, whatever.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: Right now, in every religion you have the extremists and in every religion you have the people who don't.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: You know, they do their own thing.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: But I felt like religion it's kind of like it imposes a lot of rules that sometimes, as a person, you're like, well, I don't really agree with you on that, but then you feel bad and things.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: So that's why I love spirituality more, because it is to say, I mean because if you're going to look at catholicism, I mean jesus's teachings are, you know, kindness, love, forgiveness, and it's the same thing as what buddha talks about, right?
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: So, or lao tzu, or, or you know, like so many other prophets, disciples, you know saint president of the cc, you know mother theresa.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: So the thing is it's like.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: That's why, right now, I connect more with spirituality, because also I do now understand and have faith and know that I am a spiritual being.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Having this, you know, human body experience, you call it.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: However, also I think it's just like the rules, like any human beings whenever you're you have so much many rules imposed on you, automatically you're going to rebel, right, and that's why spirituality connected with me, because it just you just feel free, because this is who you are.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: You are a free spirit.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're free soul.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: You're free to think however you want to think.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: You're free to go to church if you want to.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: You're free to go to nature if you want to.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Right like sitting in nature and meditation is the same as going to church yeah, yeah, well, and that's the thing.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: I know every religion has its own set of beliefs, but I also think there's a lot of right and wrong.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: And now, granted, right, like we could say, like murdering someone, committing adultery, like some of those things yeah, that's probably wrong, right, but the church, especially the Catholic Church, and maybe other churches again, I don't have much to compare this to Christian churches.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like, yes, there are some Christian churches that are pretty intense on yes, Like, like you know, some of the teachers I'm like really my goodness yeah.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Well, and that's what I was going to say, you're going to basically go to hell, you're doomed, you're done.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: That's what I was going to say.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Like there was, that's against what Jesus thought you know what I mean If you're going to go to it, because when Jesus came he did talk to the, to the woman who committed adultery.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: He sat with the thieves and the prisoners.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: It's all fear-based, and that's that was my issue with it is it was creating so much fear in my life of, oh my gosh, if I say this, am I going to hell or wait.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I say this, am I going to hell or wait, am I sitting in purgatory longer?
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: And that's what I was going to say, like I grew up hearing okay, maybe you won't go to hell if you don't do these terrible things, but anytime you use a swear word, anytime you go against your parents, anytime you do this, do that, you worship money, like so many different things you're going to spend longer in purgatory.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: And so, basically, everything was fear.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Like I was so scared of doing things wrong Talk about putting my nervous system in overdrive and that lasts for decades, right.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Then you get older and you realize you have now stories around sexuality, especially money, like there's there's so many stories, especially money, like there's there's so many stories.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: I'm curious, have you discovered any stories for you, in particular just around religion, that were not serving you?
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that's why I mean a lot of them, like I would feel, you know, like people who are not from the same religion or they don't believe what I believe.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: I felt like, oh my god, I felt bad for them, like, oh my goodness, they're gonna go to hell.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: They don't have any, um, you know.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: And then I would wonder, like, uh, you know, like, uh, the story is more of like it was, more of guilt.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Like, if I don't go to mass, like this Sunday, okay, my goodness oh yes, that's another day in purgatory.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: You have to go to mass that's another purgatory, and then it's an obligation or non-obligation.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: And then you have to go to confession to confess that.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Confession and I'm like I don't want to go to confession.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: And then so, yeah, like it's.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: And when you were talking, you kind of were saying about like the whole, all of these rules, right, like you do this, if you don't do this, you go to hell.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: If you don't do this, you're purgatory.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: And all of this stuff is like negative.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Right, hell and purgatory are negative.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: I don't see anything positive and anything fun about purgatory.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: He wants to go there, however, but then those religious teachings are contradicting the people who came and the religion stemmed out of them, right?
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: So, for example, if we're going to go to christianity and then jesus is all you know, he, you know he talks about all loving and you know god is, is all loving and forgiving, so if it is all loving and unconditional love, then how is it that I'm going to go to purgatory, I know.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: So these are the things that started not making sense to me and I'm like and then I went back to I started reading.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: You know, during COVID, I started reading a lot, and then you start, I started reading the dying to be me and I was like it's unconditional love and there's no judgment, so and I was like it's unconditional love and there's no
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: judgment.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: So like, wait a minute, purgatory, hell and heaven are right here on earth.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: There isn't an outside place like, yeah, now it is the now.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Because I thought like purgatory, because I'm a big um, yes, I still do have a lot of my catholic faith, because I really love Padre Pio, saint Pio, it's just like I feel he's my garden angel and he talked a lot about purgatory, souls in the purgatory, souls in the purgatory, and I thought about it.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Like you know, god is all loving.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Ultimate intelligence is all unconditional love.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: So the purgatory that Padre Pio always talked about and the soul's suffering I believe it was he was referring to the ones to earth.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean, because once your soul, your, your spirit, there's no suffering that makes sense.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Suffering is is here, in a condition, on the planet Earth.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I feel like I don't know.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I'm going so deep in it I don't know why.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: What are your thoughts?
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: What's jumping at you?
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: So many things.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: That's the thing.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: It's like there's so much I could say about religious trauma and again I want to go back to like I'm not bashing it.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: There's so much in the Catholic faith that I do agree with, and again I want to go back to like I'm not bashing it.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: There's so much in the Catholic faith that I do agree with, and there's so much with religion, like even just the sense of community, but I feel like it takes away you know, we've done episodes about personal power.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: I feel like it takes away personal power and I feel like it causes you to lose trust in yourself because you're very heavily relying on someone else to tell you what's right, what's wrong.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: And there's so much interpretation too.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: That was my issue of going through the Bible and going like I have an English degree, right.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh my gosh, like every time I read a different version, like even just a couple lines can mean something entirely different.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: And it made me realize that, gosh, there's so much open to interpretation, right.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: And then we've got to talk about there's books left out in the Bible.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: And well, wait a minute.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: Why is somebody telling me then that I have to strictly follow the Bible and I'm like but what if I'm interpreting it another way?
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: Like, am I going to hell because I'm not reading it wrong?
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: well, a lot of people are interpreting it another way, and that's why you have a lot of, uh, churches being formed or different, uh, you know, denominations or different.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: You know, out of that, because it's it gets interpreted wrong because I mean, or interpreted differently because, one, we're different human beings and then we can, you and I can read the same thing and then have different perceptions, different interpretation because of different experiences.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: So that's what I feel like with me, you know, stepping away from the religion, religion, but being more spiritual and then keeping whatever I love from my religion, whatever I grew up, you know, some of the traditions makes me more open.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: You know, like you're not condemning other people, like you know, like I mean, because they're not right or wrong, you know either they're, you know they're following what they were taught as well too, but it's just like being open.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: And when you were saying about the giving your power away, I love what you said because also, when you do that, you're also losing authenticity.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're stepping away from your soul, from your calling, and I feel that it's really important to just know that we have the answers.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I feel, yes, you're right, like you know whenever, oh, let me.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: And then there's nothing wrong.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, we read the bible, we, we pray and we meditate, but all of those is to listen to our own intuition.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: I feel this is what being spirit is is to really listen and let that shine through.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree and I.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: So that actually makes me think of a couple questions we can really be asking ourselves, because this is where I had to go back to.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: I mean even thinking through the other religions like.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to use this as an example before I give my questions.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: I posted something a couple years ago about yoga.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: I'm not even a yoga person Like Ted does yoga.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I'm not a huge yoga Like give me some stretching but I get antsy.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: But a bunch of Christians commented back on social media like you can't do yoga, that's evil, that's based in Hinduism.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: And I'm like but wait a minute, so everyone that's Hindu is now evil?
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: That didn't make sense and that's really where I started questioning more of like okay, what do I believe?
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: So here's your first question what do I actually believe and why do I believe that?
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Is it because my parents told me that when I was six years old?
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Is it because a priest told me that?
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Is it because that's how I interpreted something I read in the Bible, the Quran, the whatever, and then what values resonate with me beyond those religious teachings?
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Right, and I said that kind of in the beginning of like don't lie, don't steal, don't cheat, don't murder people.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's a core sense of values most of us would adopt.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: But outside of that, well, if I tell this little white lie or if I do this little thing over here, am I going to hell again?
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: And I think those are big questions to start to explore, because that's going to allow you to see too, who am I.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: Where do I need to work on my healing?
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Because religious trauma is a big thing, guys.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: And there's nothing wrong.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I understand that maybe someone listening right now and they can be very religious, and that was me, you know, in my, when I was in my thirties and before I the whole idea of spirituality opened up, I was very, I mean, I would even guilt the kids like, oh my goodness, jesus does so much for us, we're not going to go on Sunday, blah, blah, blah.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: So you know, it's just, it's really really, really important to.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know where I was going with this, see what I'm writing down, but anyway, it is really important to just ask yourself those questions.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I know, because sometimes like, oh, it's not good to question, oh, my goodness, it's a sin to question.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh girl, I got in a spiral with that.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Think about it this way.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Right, if it is a sin to question, then why do you have this ability?
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: That's how I think about it.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Like, our body is perfect the way it is.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Our mind is perfect the way it is.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Like these things, the ability to question and to wonder and to be curious, those are all part of human nature.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Those are there's.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: They're not sins and that's what I sometimes, you know, kind of maybe activates me a little bit when I see the, the religious groups they're really extremists about, like you know, and then oh, and then jesus is gonna come again and he's gonna judge everybody, and then we're gonna like, I mean, and then Jesus is going to come again and he's going to judge everybody, and then we're going to like I mean, yeah, yeah, I got.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: I was totally in that spiral, girl Cause when I started questioning things then it was like, oh my gosh, am I going to hell for questioning this?
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: And then I had to remind myself, if I question and come back to an empowered place of yes, this is fully what I believe, then fabulous.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: But that's, the thing for me is like, where can I work from a sense of empowerment versus fear?
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: And I even questioned that.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: That threw me into a spiral, too, of like, well, am I supposed to feel empowered?
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Or maybe I'm supposed to live my life in fear?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: And I don't think that's it, like that's not my truth anymore.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: And it was for a long time.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Yes and right.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: So if you're listening and you're very religious and you're like, oh my goodness, kira and Denise, what are you doing?
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I could never.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like you guys are crazy, we know, maybe we do know that.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: However, I recommend because, like I said, I was like that, right, and I recommend that you always keep your mind open.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: That's what God wants for you anyway, right?
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Ultimate intelligence, ultimate consciousness, wants us to be open, to always connect with ourselves and take the teachings also and like, for example, I really love this teaching because there are some teachings in the Bible that, like you can take and be like, oh yeah, that's that, that it makes sense.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: You know, because I was the other day I don't know if it was a podcast I was listening to or I saw it in one of the books, but it was the yes, that may, because a lot of the spiritual books they give examples of jesus and mary and buddha and saint francis, like a lot, like wayne dyer refers saint francis, assisi all the time refers jesus all the time and buddha and all like a lot of.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: And lao tzu, right.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: So like the, the yes, the, the, the yes that mary gave, that is ultimate surrender.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: That is a big example of us to surrender.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: What is surrender?
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Saying yes and not resisting opportunities and learning from them, right?
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: So that's where it's important to just kind of like if there's a teaching that you like, it's OK, but also be open minded about learning more and being open to other people's beliefs and not condemn them and be like, oh, they're going to burn in hell because they don't believe in this and this.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Same thing with them too.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: You know, because I don't know much about many religions, but, like I said, I did grow up in a country where, on the other side, there were Muslims and I heard it a lot that they you know a lot of Muslims and again, if you're listening and I got it wrong, you know, uh, forgive me.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: However, you know, yes, they do call other people of other, other religion sinners, right same with Christians.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: You know, they do call people of other religions sinners, but that's not necessarily true because they're following what they grew up with right.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: So why am I going to call this Muslim person a sinner?
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Because they don't believe in what I believe in, but they follow their own teachings and they have their own values.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day, if you follow the simple, like you said, the core values being kind, being respectful, loving, Don't kill people.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Don't kill people.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: It's not just the killing like controlling and I know people.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Don't forget, like you know people who follow religions like so, and you cannot deviate.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like you know military family, like you cannot deviate.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: This is more control than than well person to to be and actually I'm going to say something here.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: This is something my husband and I have commented on a lot, so forgive me if you're religious and go to church every week, but for us, for years, we would go not just because of fear, but we felt like we had to right it was the motion.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: We weren't going because we wanted to be there.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: We weren't going because we felt like it was going to make our day better or we were going to become better people.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: We were going because we felt like we had to.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: And unfortunately, I see this a lot in so many people of.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: I go to church every single week, I read my Bible, I pray every day, but let me tell you, I'm an asshole out in the world.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: That's what I see is people that are rude, they spew hate, they say they can judge because that's how they interpret it in the Bible.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Like there's so much and I'm like well, how is that?
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Like following, and even if you don't believe in Jesus, that's fine, but how is that following something good Like that doesn't make sense to me.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: You can go to a place with other people and listen to someone and just because you did that, you're saved.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: But people that maybe really try to be good people out in the world.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: They're not just because they didn't show up to this one place.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: And if we're going to go back to spirituality and we all are connected, we're all one, right?
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: I mean we all are, because we all come from the same place.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: I mean?
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: What happens when your body decomposes man.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: You're made of whatever that body I mean yeah you know.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: So it's it.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Just it's mind boggling Sometimes how, like you said, yes, you know, yeah, I read the Bible, I go to church, I do the whatever, whatever, but then I go around and say all these other people are sinners they don't believe what I believe.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Well, you're just contradicted.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, ultimate teachings of the.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Really, because any, any religion that you're gonna, you're gonna look at their teachings.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Their core teachings are the same core values of life, kindness, forgiveness, unconditional love, etc.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Etc.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: And how is that?
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: And then you're forgetting that we are connected with these people.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: If you and I are one, whether you're, you know, whether you're Jewish, or whether you're Christian, or you're Muslim, or you're Buddhist, I mean, and I'm sure there are many religions that you and I probably don't know.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I have no idea, because the world is is huge, you know, like, if we all come from that same place, right, if we all are coming, and because we, if we all decompose the same, that means we are same one and that separation is the illusion and it is what's separating us.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: We are one.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: So, whatever you believe in, it is what it is.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Whatever floats your boat, as long as you are a kind person, I don't care if you are whatever religion you are, if you're an I don't care, yeah, but that doesn't represent your religion, though, and that's another thing that we need to differentiate.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Not all priests are, you know, bad.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Not all ministers are bad.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Not all rabbis are bad, not all the same thing.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Like you know, one thing someone does in a profession or all cops are horrible, or all teachers are, whatever.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: No, and the other thing I'm going to throw in on that too is just it's not even that all are.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of misconceptions.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: People will say like well, catholicism is rooted in evil, and look how much money they take.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: And they're hiding, like girl, I've heard it all.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: They're hiding children in the basement.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Like until you know for sure about a religion, and anything like this could go in so many different directions besides religion.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: But until you know for sure, because you've seen it with your own eyes, don't make assumptions.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, exactly, Don't make assumptions at all.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, just like any story.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: And that's what sometimes, like Avery tells me.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Like someone says this and this, did you hear it?
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Did you see it with your own eyes?
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: If I didn't hear it, I didn't see it, then someone is giving me this information, they're giving me this information.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's not, and that's where religion went for me.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: It's like okay, if me not going to Catholic church because that's what I was told all my life was like the thing I had to do, right, if me not going is going to result in me going to hell, I need somebody to come tell me that Like I need to full on, read it in the Bible and see like hey, this is the only word available, or I need Jesus to come out of the sky, like I need to see it.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean, because otherwise it is all interpretation.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: It is it is all interpretation and it's it's okay to, and that's the thing it really is okay to cause right now there may be somebody listening and they're afraid to even be open.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: They're afraid to question or they're afraid to start thinking about it.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: For that I would say you know don't be afraid, yeah, cause you can go back to that same belief.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: It's fine.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: It might make you stronger.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Like Denise and I are not saying religion is bad, um, but what we're saying is the idea of religious trauma is very real because we have adopted so many beliefs of others.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: And it goes back to what Denise said we're not being authentic If you have those beliefs and you know, go through those questions and those beliefs are still yours and you still believe them as your truth and fabulous.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: But if not, then maybe there's some digging to do.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: And I want to add something.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: When you said you know, yes, no, religion is not bad.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: However, however, if you're staying, let's say if you know, you know, yes, no, religion is not bad.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: However, if you're staying, let's say if you're staying in an abusive relationship because you took vows and because of the religion, you're not doing anybody a favor.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, You're not even doing.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: God a favor.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: You're not living your life right.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: So that's also the same thing realizing.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, I appreciate those teachings and the religion, but some of the things may not apply to me.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean, because there are many people who stay in relationships whether men or women, it doesn't matter and that they're going through any type of abuse or any type of dissatisfaction.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be abuse, it can be dissatisfaction, Like, well, I can't leave this relationship because I, you know I will break my vows and I'll be a sinner.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: But then who are you being if you're choosing to be miserable all of your life and to live for somebody else?
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that is not the teachings of any religion.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Amen.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Can I say amen?
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, so it is important to just like, realize and be like.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: This doesn't apply for me, it doesn't work for me.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: You know this used to work for me and that's okay, because, also, you're not the same person, man.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not the same person.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: You know what?
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Trust me.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: My mother, oh, my goodness gracious, my mother, literally to this day.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I'm 45 years old I'm going to be 46 next month, kira, you know that and my mother to this day, every single chance, and it could be at least once a week, two times a week, I'm not gonna go to church, oh my, and a whole, like the whole thing.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: So what am I doing?
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: On the other end of the line?
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, yep, yep, you're right, and I'm being very kind, I'm listening, but I'm still doing, you know my own thing.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: another thing I want to mention my daughter, uh my daughter's growing up here in this country and a lot of her friends go to the christian churches.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: You know, like cornerstone and all the non-denominational, I feel and I taught, I teach and I do let her you know, I do allow her to explore both and we do talk about, like you know, sometimes we can go to mass or whatever, but I don't force her.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: And, uh, you know, sometimes I tell her, yeah, if you ever want to go to mass with me, you let me know and we can do it, but just if you want to.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: And she goes with her friends a lot of the times, and the other day just by herself, I didn't even say anything or whatever, and then I was like, but my mother knows that she goes to the other and she's constantly talking to me and nagging like, why'd you let her?
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Why did you do that force not to go?
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like a lot of force.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: So Avery came just by herself a couple of weeks ago and she was like, mommy, maybe we can go to mass next Sunday.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: And then her and I did go last week.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: My mom and grandma were there.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: I didn't tell them the day before but I went and they were there and, oh my goodness, my mom was so happy and she was like it's because I have been praying for her to come to this.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, that was it.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: And I didn't argue.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Of course, you know she smiled, she's happy and I don't.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: I'm at this point where I don't argue, I don't do what I do or whatever.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: But you know, even to this day and I continue doing my own thing, and I know I'm an adult and I've done a lot of work I still get the backlash from my family.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: But because I can't change them, I just choose to accept and just be like.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: It is what it is.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I get that.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: So yeah, what are the takeaways.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think the takeaways are just to question.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's what we're always saying is question things, but have an open mind.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: If you feel like religious trauma has impacted your well-being in some way, shape or form, then question, you know, like we said, and go through that, and then if that's the case, then you've got some healing to do.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: And if it's not the case and you get back to the place where it's like no, my religion is totally serving me, then fabulous, then that's also great.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, question journal, but always know that you have all the answers.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: You know, remember you have the divine in you.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: You were created in the image of God.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Hence God is within us.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: God is not above, and that's what you know.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: We talked about at the workshop.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Like, god is within your, your intelligence is within, so rely and trust that more.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, read the word, read the scriptures, read whatever you're reading.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, like I feel, like you, and I can only refer to religious terms of Christianity and Catholicism because it's what we know.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I don't know.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: I know that, what the books are called, and other religion, but I don't want to, like you know, pretend that I do know.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: So, whatever your religion is, just you know, explore spirituality, be open to it.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's your spirit at the end of the day, right?
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: So I think that that's the.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: The takeaway is just, you know, ask those questions, write them down.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Uh, be okay with them, be okay with the with asking those questions and accepting that I don't know.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Okay with wherever you land wherever you'd land.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because the status quo sometimes is very stagnant, you know, and it's you at the end of the day.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Like I always say it is you, it is you, it is you, it is you.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Please, trust in yourself yeah yeah, right and go back to your beliefs and sorting through all of the noise and the beliefs that were not yours.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: They were someone else's yeah, yeah okay, all right.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Well, on this note, guys, give us a like, a share, a comment on instagram, leave us a review on spotify or apple, do anything.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: We'd love to hear from you guys and we'll see you on the next episode.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Comment on Instagram, leave us a review on Spotify or Apple, do anything.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: We'd love to hear from you guys and we'll see you on the next episode.