Latest / The Complete Agent - The Podcast For Premium Real Estate Agents / 124. The Dark Side Of Selling Luxury Homes ft. Jeff Hill
Transcript
- JK: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Complete Agent Podcast, where each week we get together to talk all things estate agency. My name is James Kendall, and you'll be pleased to learn I'm no longer joined by Ian or Dave this week. They are with still with us. they will be back at some point, but it's gonna be another rip roaring success. It's JK, it's Michelle, and we've got a very special guest today, Mr. Jeff Hill of Harrier Global, who we'll get into in a minute, not literally. but we let's start with our weekly tradition. How has your week been? Michelle Smith. Michelle Smith: Wow, my week's been great. So I've been at James Kendlin Co. in Marston delivering a day's in-person training with the team, which was great. The focus was on what do kind of leading premium brands do and what process have we got and how can we be even better. We looked at the brain, how the brain is wired to keep us alive, not successful, and what we need to do to make sure that we can be as successful as we want to be. So it was an action packed day really. That was great. The train on either side was an absolute disgrace. Honestly, I just, how we function as a country with that train system is unreal. Every single one, late, delayed, cancelled. so we got there in the end, but, definitely not relying on those. other part of the week, I'm prepping for next week. I've got, kind of a strategy day with a client, in Stockport. They're looking at, how they can kind of enhance their productivity and where their next hire needs to be to get to their kind of ambitious business goals next week. So yeah, really busy here. How about you, JK? JK: Me. yeah, so I mean we had someone popped in this week to do some training at our office. So that was very successful. no, it was good. It was great. To be fair, and I think my teams were surprised as well. and set you off there, didn't I? when you talk about doing training and you know, you're sort of locking down the office for a day of training, they were like, god, what you know, what is this gonna be? but everyone really came away sort of Michelle Smith: If that's what you say. JK: energized, refreshed, and really positive. And I think I said to you just off air now as well, my ADHD brain that I have, like I don't take everything in, but I always pick up a few key things that I want to implement and run with. And it's all I can obs obsess and think about for like the next two and a half, three weeks. so to put it into context, and I won't take forever on this, so bear with us. I one of the things we talked about was the sort of even better if framework, didn't we? And so how for example, what does a a viewing look like at JK now? What's the process like? And it'd be even better if. And what does a world class viewing look like? What does a world class experience look like? And yesterday I met a lady at home and you know our initial process to for doing the viewing is to get there early, meet the client, open up. Obviously it's a baking hot day. Get all the bifolds open, get all the doors open, get the house ready. she actually turned up early as well. Anyway, so a lady turns up with her sister and we're chatting away and said, you I understand from the notes that you're looking to downsize and move area and get into this village and be near your family. You know, what what's bringing you over this way? And she said, my husband unfortunately has lost his sight. so I said, that's that's terrible. Like, really sorry to hear that. so we're looking around, you know, we're G I'm trying to give her the, you the I I never do the this is the kitchen, this is the lounge. I'm very much conversational, asking questions. How does it feel? What would you use this area for? you know, trying to s not sell the house, but kind of give the best features of the house in terms of how it would fit them in their context and help them come to their own conclusions. But anyway, that aside, when Because it was a pre launch, pre market viewing. So bear in mind there's no photos done yet. It's just a social media preview pre-launch that's generated this viewing. So all I've got is a floor plan. So I've sent the lady the floor plan and she said, you know, it's great. When my husband is at home, what we're gonna do is w I'll go through the floor plan and now that I've been to the house, I'll walk him through the house so he can understand like what's where, et cetera. And I said, Well, and I in my mind I was thinking to myself, What would Michelle say at this point here? Like, how could this be a better viewing? What would what would get this view into world class? I just I had an idea off the cuff and I just said to the lady, I said, look, would it be really helpful when you go and after my other viewings are done, if I took out my phone and did a video tour of the house from the front door all the way around, and just described everything in detail walking around the house? And she was like, I thought it was just quite nice normal thing to do, but she was genuinely like taken aback by it and said that's really kind. I really appreciate that. Thank you so much. so I did that. It was about eleven minutes long. And if anybody is struggling to get to sleep tonight, I can send it over to them. because listening to me drone on for eleven minutes about house and about the con the the contour of the floor and the contrast of the floor, the the materials and this, that and the other and the colours of the rooms. but I sent her a voice note just saying, look, really nice to meet you. Michelle Smith: you JK: It w the viewing went really, really well. and I said, look, hopefully this helps and you know, we'll we'll speak today. So we're we're due to speak today. But I just thought like the experience, you know, I didn't sell her house. I'm I'm trying to sell her a house. But I just thought in terms of world class experience, like that's not turning up at the same time as the viewer, putting the key in the door, never seen the house before, this is the kitchen, this is the lounge, all the doors need opening. Like that was a ten out of ten viewing, in my opinion. And it's just stayed with me. but yeah, anyway, I just thought I would tell you about that. and then in terms of business wise, we've got absolutely bucket loads coming on at the moment. We're we've got loads of owls in, we've got loads of instructions coming on. Sales are a bit lighter at the moment. We're only on one so far, but we've got quite a few bubbling. and we've got four or five really good price realignments that are generating interest. So we've really tried to get ahead of the curve on that. so I think we'll be absolutely fine. I think we'll absolutely storm July and August. although Trump has decided to weigh in again overnight and try and ruin everything. But as it stands, I'm feeling pretty confident about things moving forward. Mr Hill, how has your week been, sir? Jeff Hill: Well, that was my week, Ben. It's been quite varied, actually, and quite interesting. So I guess, at the start of the week, I met up with a very wealthy, very high profile client in sport that we've been speaking to for a little while. We've done a little bit of preliminary work on their behalf, looking at vulnerability assessment around their property, their lifestyle, and their assets. And on Monday, we went there just to seal the deal, sign the contract, which is what we've done. So I was down there doing that and then going through a lot of the things that we think they need to do to upgrade, uplift, improve their security infrastructure. So that was good. And, you know, it's interesting for me listening to you guys, because I have started to realize now that I'm in the sales profession and I don't consider myself to be a salesman. A lot of the things which I hear from you, James and Michelle, are things that you do to not only ensure you provide a world-class service, but ultimately you're usually selling either a service or a property or something of that nature. And it has a very much a kind of a sales bent to it. And there are techniques and things that you do, which I guess ultimately get deals across the line. And I've got a lot to learn in that respect. because my background is not in sales. We provide a brilliant, relatively, in fact, wholly unique service to a higher wealth bracket. And I've always taken the view that what we do kind of sells itself. And I probably need to be a little bit better at how I engage people and understand the points in that engagement and that conversation where actually this is a really important part. This is something I now need to grip. and used to convert. anyway, I reflect on that solely because I was with that client at beginning of the week. And then I went to a conference at the Emirates Stadium and you and I, JK, will know how difficult it is to walk into a stadium of that nature of people that call themselves champions, but in fact, probably nowhere near the standard of the team that you and I follow. But I went with it because the objective was to go to the conference, meet some people, JK: Yeah. Jeff Hill: And it was a, I was invited by somebody I'd met a little while ago, really lovely lady. And she is very influential in the international jewelry wholesale market. And it was a conference that was really, I guess, there to bring a lot of Indian manufacturers and wholesalers of jewelers to the notice of. retailers and wholesale purchasing in the Therefore, know, huge value in terms of some of the assets that people are looking at and interested in buying. And some real opportunity for us in terms of meeting people, not necessarily that would be clients for us, but connected to the kind of clientele that we want to do business with. JK: Can I can I just say, mate, before you go too further deep, I I've I feel like I've I've messed up a little bit here because I don't think I've introduced who you are. Everyone knows the name's Jeff now. and everyone knows you support one of the finest teams the world has ever seen. But what what they don't know is who you are, where you're from, and I I I take that on board. So what I'll do very quickly, if everyone can just remember and and soak in everything you've just said, but then Michelle Smith: Yeah JK: Let me tell you who we've got on the podcast today. So today's guest is going to bring a perspective that most agents aren't going to get access to. Jeff Hill spent his career as a detective and police commander before co-founding Harrier Global, which is a security consultancy working with high net worth and ultra high net worth in quiet clients, including residents on the Wentworth Estate, one of the most exclusive private estates in the country. Jeff and his team advise the kind of clients we all aspire to represent as agents on the risks that come with owning and moving high value homes, everything from organized crime targeting prime property to what buyers and sellers unknowingly give away during a sale. So if you work in the mid to high end market, this conversation's gonna change how you think about viewings, marketing, client care, everything. So, Jeff, I know you've just spent two minutes talking to us, mate, but welcome to the show. So Michelle Smith: Smooth, Jk, smooth. Jeff Hill: It's a pleasure to work with an experienced host, James. Okay, yeah, so I'll finish off about that and then maybe as we go on, I can tell people a little bit more about what we do. But yeah, so it was a great networking opportunity for us. And I'll come back to that at some later point because I've learned a lot in business. Michelle Smith: I know. I know. JK: Well, that's it, mate. That's it. What in the chat GPT is going on here? Sorry, mate. Right, go on. Let's go. The gold. Talk to me about the gold. Jeff Hill: in the last few years, particularly about the importance of your network. And then yesterday, I was due to go back, but I thought, to be honest, I've done as much as I was going to do on the first day. And I really could have done with a desk day, which is what I did yesterday. So was a combination of catching up, doing a bit of work, taking people's houses down, believe it or not, offline, right move on the move market, et cetera, et cetera. So I was doing a number of things and also trying to keep my garden alive in the evening, which was probably the priority of the day. So yeah, that's what I've been doing this week. I'm in London this afternoon, meeting another associate of mine. And then on Friday, I forget what I'm doing. I'll have to my diary. But I'm kind of, I have a busy week and what I find really, not challenging, but really interesting, my diary becomes JK: Yeah. Jeff Hill: such an important tool to me. constantly putting in meetings and my meeting schedule really is like four to six weeks. You know, that's kind of the cycle that I'm looking at. JK: I know we tried to get you in, we've been trying to get you in on the podcast for the last three years, but you've been busy. A busy man. Jeff Hill: I'll Michelle Smith: I Jeff Hill: see you. Michelle Smith: think that was you JK, I asked him and he came straight on. JK: Yeah, true. Jeff Hill: It wasn't back there, it the invite from Michelle who's got it across the line, Yeah, so that's my week and it's been good. Yeah, it's been a good week. JK: there you go. There you go. So I've got some good questions to kind of deep dive in, because you know, there's a lot for us to kind of get through, but I'm keen to kind of I suppose add value. Now, obviously a lot of the TCA members, they they listen to this podcast, but they've had the benefit of you speak at one of our mastermind events, engage, ask questions, and pe people really came away because you were a bit of a left field guest at the time, you know, because normally those sort of mastermind events you've got You know, up until Michelle really joined us, we were going through similar NST agency is sometimes repeating the same things and refreshing ideas. But I just think, you know, having you come in and the the feedback we got in the room that day was brilliant. Like people said that you know it was so interesting to see you know, a different side of things and the value add opportunity to clients. and really becoming that trusted advisor that we we always talk about in TCA. And it's just adding that extra string to your bro bro, bo, bro. so you spent your career in p policing before moving into private security. What did you see as a detective that made you realise wealthy homeowners were so exposed? Jeff Hill: guess really that my career was spent in the main dealing with sophisticated, organized and complex criminality. And when I retired, there was a colleague of mine and we spoke about getting into business together and using the skills that we had in policing. And of course I could have applied for and hopefully would have secured a role in London for a massive salary and whatnot. A lot of my colleagues have done that and that suits them, but it was never going to suit me. It's not something I wanted to do. I wanted to work for myself. I wanted to do something that interested me. So what we decided to do was to use our combined 65 years experience in dealing with the most sophisticated criminals in the private sector. Now the fact of the matter is that sophisticated criminality, those individuals, they don't target middle England, they target the wealthy. So we were always going to be working with high and ultra high net worth individuals. And what makes these individuals entirely different is the level of skill, capability and motivation. that they have and the fact of the matter is we see routinely that the wealthy, because they don't appreciate who they're looking to protect themselves against, they go to the marketplace ill-informed and they select one or two measures that they think are likely to keep them safe. And they don't appreciate that technology, is in the main what people go for, security personnel, is just not enough. Criminals are much better than that. CCTV does not put them off, not at this bracket. So it really is about ensuring that you've got a layered, blended infrastructure that really does work with your lifestyle and keeps you safe because criminals see the gaps, which is what we do. And we often refer to criminals at this level and the way they operate, like pouring a bucket of water over uneven ground. They'll find a route through. and they find the route through by understanding and exploiting vulnerability and clients don't see that. We do because we look at clients in the same way that criminals do and we understand why those vulnerabilities exist. So I guess what we do, which makes us very, very different in this space is that the methodology that we use is that we target our clients in the same way that criminals do. So we build profiles of them from what we can find in open source. We read articles about them. We'll research their family. We will look at their properties online. We will do Google Street searches. We do everything that criminals do in the preparatory phases. We will then do a reconnaissance of their property, all with their knowledge. And then we continually ask ourselves the question, how am I going to do this? And if this is in place, how am going to overcome that? What am I going to do now, which means I can either avoid or overcome this particular security measure and therefore what's next and it's all about series of safety nets. So that's pretty much what we do and that's what we bought from policing I guess to the private sector is understanding their criminals think how they operate and how they make decisions. So you know we are well placed to counter the threat that they present. JK: So here's a question then. So who is the typical Harrier Global client and what are they most worried about? Jeff Hill: Great question. Well, firstly, they they're wealthy, high or ultra high net worth. They will live in affluent areas. Often they'll have properties abroad. They'll have the trappings of wealth, nice cars, jewelry, holidays, great lifestyles. In the main, our client base started out with high profile, sorry, high net worth. low profile individuals, people who made their money through their business and their intellect. And in the main, they are easier to deal with because in many respects, you don't have to spend a huge amount of time helping them understand what the threat looks like and the implications of not actually countering it. More recently, we've done a lot of work with high net worth and now ultra high net worths who are high profile. individuals in the world of sports and entertainment and things of that nature. And sometimes they are a little bit more difficult to deal with because particularly when you're talking about professional athletes, they're usually quite young, particularly the male athletes are very hedonistic and they will spend money on things that they value. And they often link value to things which are visible and tangible. So what we do, is that we provide a consultancy service. so helping them understand the value in what we do is sometimes more difficult than it is for those people who have made their money through their business, because young people often think it's not going to happen to them and then want everything that you can provide when their friend's been a victim and they've decided that they don't want to be a victim themselves and they want it like yesterday. So what we tend to find is with those individuals, you spend a lot of time warming them up and all of sudden it's go, go, go, go, go. Because now they've realised and seen the threat with others less so. And of course, we also work with people who have become victims and through partnerships that we have, we get those individuals referred to us through those individuals who already work with them and provide them with service at that high net worth bracket. JK: So when it comes to a a state so relating it to a state agency. So one of the processes we've got, properties that we would regard as, you know, maybe prime and super prime in-house here is we do things like proof of funds checks and ID checks before we will allow a view in to happen. So we want to see, you know, w they A that they've got the money and B, we wanna see IDs and verification before we do the view-ins. I mean our criteria in house is sort of a million plus. From a outsider's perspective, what do you think agents should be doing to vet viewers on homes, say above a million? Like is is ID checking at the door enough? Or or you know, I mean there's a lot that that don't even do that, a name and a number. Like, what what do you think should be the gold standard? Jeff Hill: Are you saying in terms of ensuring that criminals are not viewing high-end houses or are you looking at it from a slightly different perspective? JK: I th think a bit of both. I mean I think, you at end of the day, I I find that 'cause I obviously I help people do onward negotiation. So sometimes I help people with v rarely, but sometimes I view houses with my clients. and when I'm sat next to them and they're booking a viewing, I'm always amazed at how scant the detail is with the other agent. So for example, we'll sit there and they might go, Right, you know, hi, you know, my name's Jeff. I'm interested in viewing this house at on I don't know. Acacia Lane, it's 1.5 million. can we come and see it? The agent says, Yeah, no problem. what time do you want to come? Yeah, Saturday, one o'clock. Brilliant. Okay. Can I take your phone number? Yeah, great, brilliant. All right, I'll see you then. Now, if I was a mastermind criminal, that would be perfect for me because I could give a burner phone, turn up to do a viewing, or send somebody else to do a viewing with a burner number. They can do the reconnaissance on the whole house. Jeff Hill: Absolutely. JK: Come back away, you know, maybe even, you know, because there's sometimes where in those sort of homes where buyers want to wander around by themselves. And I'm I'm happy for them to do that, but I'm always making sure they're within eye distance, if that makes sense. I'll keep a distance, but I'll make sure I'm I'm watching. but I've, you know, been on view-ins before with other agents where they've just they've literally opened the front door, turned up late. talking about world-class viewings earlier, crikey. they've turned up late, you know, the house is like an oven. they're not prepared, they haven't seen it before. And they've literally just opened the front door, looked at their mobile phone and said, Yeah, you know, help yourself, you know, go go. So from a security perspective, I mean, I appreciate this is probably the extreme, but in that scenario, you could wander around filming everything with your mobile phone if you're not being followed by the agent, and do your reconnaissance, you know, look at, you know, where the easiest way in is. Obviously, you've already got the floor plan and stuff online. but you know, a video of assets and what's inside and where to attack it from and you can actually see it in in real life. you know, that that is obviously, you know, not even it's not the standard, that is probably the extreme, but it does happen. What what would you say a world class secure perspective should be for from an agent's point of view? Like what what you what would you perceive that they should be doing even at the point of booking the viewing and then actually doing the viewing? Jeff Hill: Well, think firstly, you're in the wrong job, I think maybe you should switch to the darker side because you think in a very, very dark way. But no, you're absolutely right. And sophisticated criminals at that end of the business, they will be asking themselves the question, where are the opportunities here? And if a property is up for sale, why would they not consider having a look around it? Now, there might not be the individuals that ultimately commit the crime, but it might be part of an organised criminal group that looks to access the property to do a better close in-house reconnaissance to see exactly where the master bedroom is, if there's a safe, what it looks like inside. So you're absolutely right. And I think there's two elements to it. One is the process and one is the gut feeling. And you've already identified yourself that agents that are the kind of individuals that don't prepare properly and take a very lackadaisical approach to the viewings are the ones that potentially are exposed in this situation. First and foremost, it's in your interest, surely, to ensure that potential buyers are going to view a property as the funds and the means to which to buy it. Because otherwise, everyone's wasting their time. So there is, of course, some work, some upfront work that needs to be done within reason because people don't want to feel like they're being interrogated to ensure that the individual is who they say that. And, you know, particularly if you're looking at prime and super prime property, yeah, then absolutely. ID checks. probably want to see passports. and legitimately you can turn around to these individuals and say look you know this is a very valuable property it's a wealthy client who lives here we need to make sure that you are who you say you are and you're here for genuine and bona fide reasons so I don't think there's any issue with that at all and so there is something about the process that agents go through to ensure that they vet in some way the potential buyers or certainly the people are viewing the property but the other thing is this gut instinct thing and Yeah, we'll talk about this because I've been in the police for 30 years and you know, there is a gut instinct that you have about people, but we've all got it. And you know, you read people and sometimes you think this isn't something right about this person. Well, if that's the case, then you're going to delve a little bit deeper and just try and probe a bit more, know, find out about, you know, not just who they are, but where they say they live, know, ask a few questions about it. Do your own research to see if they're actually giving you the right address and what have you. Ultimately, it doesn't feel right. It probably isn't. And, you know, if you are a quality agent, I am sure that people who are buying a property through you will understand that you're representing the interests of your client, the vendor, and you want to ensure that the people going around are there for legitimate purposes. So absolutely, you know, the issues you've raised there are bang on and agents should be doing that. JK: I think Michelle, there's a good chance for you to jump in here as well because one of the trainings we did this week was about the brain and that gut instinct. So I think there'd be might be a nice little value add there for like for anyone listening about the the gut brain and the the head brain and this, that and the other. Do you want to just elaborate on that a little bit? Michelle Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So one of the coaching modalities that I'm trained in is called MBIT and it's about your multiple brain intelligences. So we all have a head brain, we have a heart brain and we have a gut brain and they're classified as brains because they actually have neurons. So they fire and wire together. Now your gut brain really is what would be responsible for intuition and action and emotion comes online earlier than logic. What tends to happen and the reason why I put this in a lot of training is we get really embedded in a process. So it becomes habitual. So, you know, the process that we have at X-Agent is we do X, Y and Z. Now, when you're just operating from that logical process, you can take your intuition offline. And I think it's one of our most valued resources in relationship building, in business. So yeah, I'm like nodding away, Jeff, when you're saying you know, you've got to listen to your intuition. If something feels off, genuinely, you know, generally you're right. So that's when, you know, you need to go in deeper and investigate further. We had an instance actually, at an estate agency where we had somebody who wanted to view 1.5 mil house, gave his address, it fell off. When we checked his address was like not a great property. miles and miles away. So when you look to kind of what value that property would be, you know, it was probably under a hundred grand. So that doesn't mean that that person can't afford to the 1.5 million pound house. But what it does mean is we need more questions. There needs to be, you know, more things asked and unearthed to really understand, you know, the process and what's happening. So, yeah, I think intuition is absolutely key. JK: I'm just to say a couple of things on just a deep dive. Not really a question as such, but I think it's a statement that is is fairly obvious. Is obviously we use professional photography, video tours, drone footage, all to sell houses. You know, there's obviously a line between great marketing and the burglars shopping list because you see some houses where I I've certainly seen them online before, and somebody's got a picture of like let's say the principal bedroom or the suite or whatever, and On the side of the bed cabinet, they've got you know, like one of those watch things in there with that kind of winds all the watches up. I'm not I've got an Apple Watch, I'm not poshed enough to have a Rolex. I don't see the point in this country, to be fair. We could probably dive down that later on, but I've seen that. And I've I've thought to myself, like, as the agent, surely you you look at that and go, you're just asking someone to have a go. A, not even in the house. Like and have a go at nicking them in the house. But you've also said, right, the person that lives at that house has got an expensive watch collection. And even if I don't get them in the house, there's a good chance when they pull off the drive, we can follow them to work and take them off the road and take it off their wrist. You know, and I know you say, like you say, Jeff, I I think in quite a dark way, but I always think in well, I think it's probably being around you guys, because as I say, the majority of my friends are either police officers or ex police officers. And, you know, y I think I am now kind of everything I everything I'm thinking, like I'm always thinking, how do I protect my client? How do I protect myself? You know, based on the knowledge that I'm lucky enough to have gained from being around you guys. so have you I mean, here's a here's a question in itself, Jeff. Have you ever seen any cases where property transaction itself was the root in? So, you know, has has someone impersonated someone like any diverted deposits or criminals posing posing as buyers. I think w there was quite a high profile case, wasn't there, in Surrey some time ago, I think it was in the news. But is there anything you can think of that comes to mind that, you know, would really add value to agents and really start get them thinking about how they can protect their clients? Jeff Hill: Yeah, absolutely. I can't give you any specifics, but I would be absolutely sure that individuals or properties that have been victims of or individuals in property have been victims of burglary or robbery either at the time of or shortly after a transaction or sale. I'm sure there are examples of where individuals potentially have been able to secure access to that property as a as a buyer at some point. I'm sure they would have thought about that and have done it. Albeit I can't give you any specifics. What I can say though is agents must recognize that with prime and super prime properties, the process of sale because of the very nature of what you're trying to achieve will give criminals an advantage because immediately what you're doing, you're posting all over the internet imagery of the inside of the property. Now if it's a very, very affluent property, what better for me to assist my planning than have you gift me photographs of the inside of the property and the outside of the property. Now, I don't see that there is a way around that. I really don't. But what I do think is really important is that clients who are selling their properties understand that that is a period of time in their life where they become maybe more vulnerable because actually they're putting out for the world to see everything about their property. So. think there is something in that process about advising clients, know, make sure that the security that you have here is properly functional and, you know, your technology is set when you're away from the house and things like that. Of course, you don't want to be scaring clients or, you know, causing them anxiety around the sale of the property. Completely the opposite. You want it to be a very seamless and uneasy process and transaction. But there are vulnerabilities there. can give you, albeit I won't name them because some of them are high profile, I can give you examples of where clients have been subject to burglary when their houses have been advertised for sale. And I do know, and there was a recent case where it was flagged up, but we've been doing it for some considerable time, where legacy issues, very legacy details, left online by agents or archived. by all of the online platforms have given criminals the advantage and they have mined that and used that information to target the property. Now, what I would say in more general terms, and this is really about individuals that purchase prime and super prime property, is that a lot of purchases make the mistake of perceiving or believing that the security that a property has when you buy it is adequate for your needs. because it was adequate for the person who was there before. And that is not always the case. And in fact, is often not the case. What we also find as well with developers, no criticism of them, they're in business, they put in what we call show security. So it will look like it's, you've got cameras and you've got an alarm panel, everything else, but you have some real limitations around what they put in. It's usually very, very basic entry-level kit and security is not. all about technology, it's about a range of other things which they completely ignore. So we say to people, know, the whole process of moving house, that's the time to get your security reviewed. You've just moved in, we are moving to another property. That's the point at which you should get a proper audit done of your security, your requirements, and see where the gaps actually are and make some judgments as to whether you want to fill them or not. But yeah, I think, you know, coming back. specifically to that question, there is absolutely no doubt that the sale of a property elevates the vulnerability of either the occupiers that selling it or the people that buy it subsequently for sure. JK: Can I ask you a question on the back of that? So what would you say is the most common security mistake you see in a multi million pound home? Is it technology or is it habits? Jeff Hill: It's a combination of both and both cause a problem. I'm satisfied with our high profile clients. There's an added layer of vulnerability because of the predictability of their movements. So if you're the lead singer of an international pop band and you're playing tonight in Rio, you are not going to be at home. If you're a footballer who is playing in London tomorrow, you'll travel down the night before. You know, as a footballer, I know exactly where you train. I know where, when you train. So predictability and habits are problematic. As far as security is concerned, know, people do, they do think that the technology is security and it's not. It's much, much more than that. It's so much more holistic. And one of the mistakes, if you just look at technology that is often made is that the first floor is often less well defended than the ground floor. I would say at the moment, We're probably running at 85, maybe even up to 90 % of people that we go and visit who've become victims of crime are all attacked on the first floor. And the reason they get attacked on the first floor is because their perception is it's less well defended and they're usually right. And they also do the first floor, it gives a notice of somebody returning to the property. If I'm rifling through your downstairs office, then you come through the front door. I've got a very, very small window to realize that and to potentially escape. If on the top floor, it's going to be quite easier. The other thing with the top floor is often, particularly with the master bedroom, where a lot of valuables are kept in and around that area, and particularly if you're going to be sloppy and left your watch on the side and things such as that. So one of the mistakes they often make is that they accept recommendations from technology companies who go top floor light. And the reason they do that is because Even affluent people want value for what they're getting. And they often think the price point is about everything they do rather than helping them understand what they need. They try and position their solution within a bracket of pricing, which they think is tolerable for the client. So we always say the first floor needs to be as well defended as the ground floor. know, particularly things that, you know, with intruder alarm systems, for example, if you've got a police response to independent zones, in the specified period of time. Usually these days it's about half an hour. And if two independent zones are not activated within half an hour, then the police are not coming because it's considered to be a punctual alarm. So if I attack the master bedroom, we do a lot of things to protect or stop anybody ever getting there. But let's say I get to the master bedroom and I'm going to smash my way through the big picture windows. That's the first point of which you should have an activation. All accessible windows should have shock sensors on them. Activation number one. If I then come into the master bedroom, you should have a passive infrared in the corner, which will be activation number two. That's a confirmed activation and the police will come if you've got a police response. What tends to happen is that most people, say most, a lot of the people we come across, the upper floor may have a passive infrared in the corridor because the perception is that criminals will come in and they'll move from room to room. But more so these days, we're finding people are attacking just the master bedroom or bedrooms that they perceive through their research will have valuables. So they will come through the glass and not even in those rooms, sometimes other PIRs. So we always say PIRs in every room, shops in every window, because that's when you're going to force the activate, sorry, the confirmed activation as quickly as possible and the police are on their way. But again, I don't blame people for accepting the advice they're given by so-called experts because JK: Mm. Jeff Hill: got a guy in who's going to fit intruder alarm system and you they'll take that advice. security is really really nuanced and the detail actually matters and again what people tend to do is they think right well I've got that so I'm safe and we hear all the time as objections to us meeting people when we're introduced. Oh no don't worry I've got security and we often say you probably have some security measures but you don't necessarily have a security infrastructure that will keep you safe. JK: So just on that, sorry Michelle, we're gonna were you gonna jump in there? I was gonna say, so you you've described this to me before, and obviously you'd mentioned it on the time when you come to the mastermind about security for clients being, you know, a bit like an onion with multiple layers. and so maybe maybe unpack that slightly. But also, I think a lot of sort of higher-end homes have Michelle Smith: No, no, no. JK: Like the or the gated developments or they have electric gates. Does a gate actually make people safer, or does it just make people feel safer? Jeff Hill: That's a really good point. mean, some of the gated communities that we work in do have obviously fences all the way around. Some have patrolling security personnel. But at this level, criminals just deal with that as part of their plan and preparation. So if you take a gated community, invariably those communities will have footpaths on and off the estate. And I think the first thing to acknowledge is that at this level, most criminals are unlikely to drive to your front door. So if you live in Ascot with a mile long drive or whether you live in Kensington and you're front onto the road, they're not going to be parking outside your house. The only time that usually happens at this level is when somebody is going to get kidnapped and that's quite rare because they need immediate access to the vehicle. And the reason that they don't drive to the house is because they don't want to run the risk that if they're disturbed, they have to abandon a vehicle and leave a forensic rich environment for the police. So once you understand and know that, then you actually start to ask yourself, what value do gated communities add in terms of the security? And yes, they act as a deterrent for volume crime. And this is something that the conversation we often have with people, volume criminals are not targeting the wealthy because their perception is they have a level of security which is beyond their capabilities. But serious criminals are, and they are not put off by things like gates and security patrols. We work with some Premier League football players and some Premier League football clubs provide patrols for their players to go around their houses. Well, the first thing I would say is the opposition know this and they'll wait for it to arrive and they'll wait for it to go and they'll know they've got at least another hour and half before it comes back. And arguably, potentially, if they're turned on and they should be, they may well just loop on behind the car and follow it around and find out where every player in the first team squad lives because they know where it worked. So I think there is something about security patrols and gates that do deter some caliber of criminal, not the higher end. They give a sense of reassurance. And that is important. But it's also important to feel reassured, but to be savvy. JK: Yeah. Jeff Hill: and not be complacent. The last thing I'd say about gates, which is quite interesting, I mentioned there about vehicles turning up or when criminals drive vehicles to your house, they're not going to park near your property. So we then ask ourselves a question, well, what about security gates? People talk about security gates at their house. Well, if people are not going to drive to your house, why do they provide security? Well, they're there for two reasons. The first is if you don't have them, I'll walk up your drive. And the second reason is that they're to prevent present a barrier. Should I come specifically to steal one of your vehicles? So if I want your Lambo or your Ferrari and there are criminals that just specialize in vehicles, then your gates are there to present a barrier to me taking that vehicle. Well, then ask yourself the question, why are they always set up? You need security to go through them. But when you drive out from your house, you drive up to the gates and they just open. So again, it's a bit of detail. It's understanding why they should work and actually you're just defeating the object. So they have to be set up in a slightly different way. it really is about just thinking through practicalities and what's going to happen in the real world. What will criminals do and how do you counter the threat they present by interfering with their process. JK: So I wanna there's something I want to come back to in a minute, which is we talked about the clients that you represent and you mentioned really early in the conversation about networking. So I just want to park that for a second because I just want to kind of cap off the security side before we just dive in really quickly into the networking and business side of things. how much do you think an agent should know about a client's secur security arrangements? and also how do you have that conversation with them without alarming them? Jeff Hill: I think agents should have a really, really good understanding of the security of the property that they're selling. Because more and more now, certainly with the people that I'm dealing with, security is really important to people. It's a really great selling point. If you've got great security and you're selling a house for four or five million pounds, the people who are moving in there are going to be concerned about their security. They're going to want to know and understand that they're going to be kept safe and they're buying a property that has a level of security whilst as I said earlier, it should nevertheless be reviewed. So I think it's absolutely appropriate for agents to understand that because you're going to be asked the question if you're operating in a particular bracket, what's the security like? And to be able to turn around and say, it's got, you know, to turn around and say it's got CCTV and alarm is a very basic response. To be able to turn around and say it has a security infrastructure consisting of this, this, this, this, and this. actually shows that you have a depth of understanding of knowledge, which is probably even beyond theirs. And it's a really good selling point for people who are selling properties. So I think it's something that agents should be inquisitive about. How far do you go? Well, think certainly with vendors, you should be helping them understand it's a really important selling point for their property. So it's right and proper that you should understand what it looks like. And for clients that are buying a property, I'm guessing it's part of that fact finding, know, what's important. What the red lines for you? Is it the school? Is it the location? Is it the communication links? What about the security? For some people, this is a real big issue. So I think understanding both from a purchaser and a vendor's point of view, their attitude to security will help agents be better at their job. I've got no doubt about that. JK: So just the let's I think that's a a load of value there in the the last sort of forty minutes in terms of security, et cetera. One of the things that I believe you're excellent at, and I think it stood you in good stead, you know, obviously you you know your stuff back to front when it comes to the security side of things. But one of the things I think that you don't see necessarily from this conversation is just how good you are at networking. You are a master networker. And what I again will maybe unpack some of this a little bit, but I think where you succeed so well is that you're you're you obviously you you get into the right rooms of the right people, but your attitude is always adding value to people. How can I add value to this relationship? Whether regardless of whether it's a conversation you've just struck. I mean, we went to that rooftop. event in London that time where we met I mean there was a load of ex-Premier League players there and we were socializing with business people and this, that and the other. But one thing I picked up on some of the conversations that we were kind of in together with some of the people that you met was that, you know, you know, you kind of get a little bit about them, you know, you find a bit of common ground in terms of what they're into, this, that and the other. And then it's always how do I add value to this new relationship? And then, you know, make a connection. So for me, you know, I'm massive on LinkedIn in terms of like I don't want to say massive on LinkedIn is in like I'm a celebrity, but I mean is that I'm I'm massively all in on LinkedIn and connecting with people. because I just feel like you know you can become the guy. So you know, whereas you are the security guy for high net worth, ultra high net worth, sports, entertainment, like you you've become kind of recognized in the right sort of social networks and and even off social network. spaces where people actually want to be in a room with you and hear what you've got to say because of who you've worked with and who's obviously referenced you. now I think as business owners, away from a state agency, just as business owners, we're often told to network and it can be easy to get sucked into one of these pay to play breakfast clubs. And personally, I think unless you own a print company, Or, you know, you're a relatively low-value transactional business. I personally don't see value in those pay-to-play networking groups. And I'm happy for you to bat me back and say no. but I think making quality connections with the right people and adding value to them and expanding your network. They say your network is your net worth. Like any agents listening to this, now you're completely out of the industry, but How many times, you know, without naming names, have we crossed paths where you've said to me, I I know so and so is looking to move to this place here. They're high profile. Who can you connect me with in Manchester that can help this person do this? I then reached out in that in that instance. I reached out to Dave Warburton, who obviously is part of TCA. he knows Manchester really well. That client is, you know, struggling to secure a property in that area. You put him in touch with Dave. Dave necessarily couldn't help him at the time. But was able to pass them on to somebody else that he trusted and knew really well. And then that value add there is kind of skipped that layer that, you know, rather than that person having to go through right move or their liaison person from their sphere, go through right move and deal with an agent and perhaps get the office junior, they were able to skip and get to the right people in the right place, add the value in the connection. Then from that person there on in goes, well. you know, if they speak to one of their colleagues or friends or whatever and they say, well, I need to do this or need to do that. yeah, let me speak to Jeff. Jeff will put you in touch with someone, or let me speak to Dave. Dave will put you in touch with, you know, what what advice and value add would you give to agents when it comes to networking? Jeff Hill: The first thing I'd say is that when I left the police, I understood networking, but I didn't understand how to do it properly because I was in a senior position in the police. If I wanted to see somebody, my EA would ring them and they'd appear in my office. So it was my authority and my rank, which meant that I had access to people. And I left and realized, why would people want to talk to me? We had a very unique business. We haven't come across anybody who does what we do in the way that we do it. The that we have consistently is a crowded marketplace. And when you talk about security, everybody has their own perception of what it is. And invariably they're wrong. And until we have the opportunity to speak with them and correct their thinking, they don't appreciate the value that we add. So we tried in the early days, traditional marketing, online print media, things such as that. And it didn't cut it and it never was going to cut it. And the bulk of our business comes through networks and professional introduction. I guess what we did initially, we made a couple of errors of judgment because there were people in certain industries and environments which obviously had a very, very clear link with what we do. Lawyers, accountants, insurance brokers, estate agents, people of those industries that are already doing business. with high-end ultra-planet with people, already have relationships with them, already have a level of trust. What we want is those individuals to be able to reference us because they trust us and therefore us at least get an audience with a client and then it's over to us in terms of converting that into business. So one of the mistakes we've made in the first instance was trying to get to those people. if you're all know, but if somebody contacts, I'm not quite like that if I'm honest, because I've been there and I'm... I'm more generous with my time. But if you're a busy person and somebody you don't know from an industry you don't feel is connected to you wants to somehow secure a meeting with you, you simply are just not going to get it. So the first thing that I would say is don't set yourself completely lock in on the prize. Step down a layer or two. And we learnt this through all the work we did over the years in undercover policing and things like that. Never target the boss of the crime family. Always target the courier or someone like that. Build those relationships so they introduce you. through the organisation and eventually you'll get to meet that person. And ultimately as well, it's not about, hello James, how you doing? Let me tell you about how amazing my security consultancy is. Can you introduce me to your clients? Obviously. But in a very basic way, that's what people tend to do. So of course you're going to be meeting people and you're meeting them for business, but it really is. And I'm not teaching anybody to suck eggs. Everyone knows this, it's relationship first. People got to like you. If they like you, they'll give you what you want. That's the key. So I spent a huge amount of time really just, you know, trying to ensure that when I meet people that actually I'm the best version of myself. We talk about business, obviously, but I want to believe that meeting thing. He's a top guy and I want him to go work for me. If I just tell them what I do and they leave, I don't like that because I've made those mistakes and people have said, you know what, Jeff, anybody, any of my clients ask me about security, you're the guy I'm going to recommend. And I think we're probably never going to have another conversation because your client's not going to turn up and ring you up and go, I know that you do my accounts. I'm just telling you, I've got a real security anxiety. It was just not going to happen. What you want is you want to be in a position where those people love you enough that they can then go away and they think and go, do you know what that client? I reckon he's just moved to that big house. I reckon they'd be interested in speaking to Jeff and be proactive and pick the phone up and make the call. And that's what comes with that personal relationship. first. So we've done a lot of that. We've targeted the industries where we know people work with the caliber of client that we want to work with. I use LinkedIn entirely differently now. When I first started, my LinkedIn was all about connecting with people. What does that matter? I get their feeds, they get my feeds. I wasn't doing much on LinkedIn. It really wasn't adding value at all. So I started to use LinkedIn slightly differently. Firstly, I started to get a little bit busier on LinkedIn. actually when people looked at my profile, they could see that I was relevant to the industry and busy. And the second thing was that where I was looking to link in with people, I wouldn't straight away sort of like, bang, can I sell you X? That's not what it's about. But I would often and still do to some extent say, look, is there any chance we can meet up for a coffee? 30 minutes of your time, I'd love to know what you do so that actually I can represent your interest with my clients. And at the same time, I think it'd be really, useful for you to have an understanding of what I do. Because if we're linked in together, it means nothing unless we understand each other's business. And so I do a lot of meets and greets and copies and what have you, and sometimes follow those up. And some people drift away and other people you build longer and deeper relationships with. So you linked in entirely differently. And what I find these days, is I'm getting now, whereas it used to be very proactive from my side, I'd be the one reaching out, I get a lot more people now reaching into me and wanting to link in. And I'm looking and thinking, these are exactly the kind of people I want to talk to. But I didn't even know you existed. So clearly I'm starting to be successful in that networking space because people are starting to come to me. Lastly, networking events, pay to play. think it very much depends on what the pay to play looks like. I don't pay to play at the moment. I've been asked to be involved in a couple of very kind of high-end, high net worth service provider kind of networking groups. I've been a guest at a couple of them and I still think, do you know what? This room is full of people who all do the same thing. And whilst I'm going to be there in my capacity, and I probably would be the only person from a security point of view, it's almost a competitive horse trading platform. People are all competing, they're trying to meet new people, and it's quite uncomfortable in some respects. So the networking events I tend to go to are usually the ones that come from the people already in my network. The people who say, I've got an event on Jeff, I think it'd be really good. I meet someone, I met somebody last week. really, really great high-end wealth manager who said, Jeff, I think you'd be brilliant for, you know, a couple of our events. We've got a couple of events coming up. Why don't you come along? That gives you a great opportunity not only to enhance and build the relationship that you've got with that individual, but you're turning up and they're going to be the person that goes, Jeff, let me introduce you to this person over here and that person. And you get those introductions. But then the other thing to remember as well is that when you go to a networking event, you are at work. You there might be social events, but you have to work the room. And that doesn't mean you become intense or you become salesy or anything like that. But, you know, you meet the guy at the bar, you have a couple of drinks, you have a little chat and whatever. And then you just say, look, you know, I need to go and see someone. So you try and get the most, you you squeeze the juice out of the orange and that, as I say, but it's a balance. can't come across as intense. You can't come across as flighty. I've met you now. need to meet somebody else. But you do need to appreciate this is an opportunity. Don't just start a bargain piss with a bloke you've just met because you really think he's a good bloke. You know what mean? There are other people in that room you haven't met yet who could be even better. So try and get as much out of it as you can. So networking, guess to summarize, really is the key to our business. I spend probably at the moment, 50 % of my time is networking. I've gone across to London this afternoon. I meet the guy that I've already got relationship with. but then I'm meeting somebody new for a coffee and I'm in London probably three times a week. And that's not because all of our business is in London, but a lot of people who provide service to high and on-cry net worths are. We do work up right across the country. I'm just about to book in a couple of days up in the Northwest and I'll catch up with a number of people I know while I'm up there and I might get the opportunity to meet a few more. yeah, networking for me is absolutely key. JK: Yeah, perfect. So I mean so before we wrap up today, Michelle, was there anything you want to add or ask before we wrap up? Michelle Smith: No, do you know what, every time I meet Jeff and this is why he's so successful at networking and what he does, he's just such an interesting guy. you know, I want to have a drink and then he'll tell me about all of these things. And don't shatter my illusion. Do you have an earpiece? Jeff Hill: Thanks, dude. I'll have an earpiece. Not now. Michelle Smith: I want you to have like, I see like a 007 earpiece on you, Jeff. I think that you need to add. Jeff Hill: Years and years ago, I used to run a surveillance team and I had an earpiece then, yeah, but I haven't done for many years. JK: No, perfect. Well look, mate, just before you go, can you just let the people know where they can find you? like where it's best to go to if they've got a security concern with a client or they want to introduce you to someone or maybe they want to just bend your ear for five minutes and say, Look, I've got this client. I think there could be a security concern or a t a chance to add some value to a client they're going to. where you know, because I know before for us, and I'm sure you do it for others as well, if they've got a client, have a sort of no obligation chat with them over the phone about their concerns. How how do they find you if they're listening to this? Jeff Hill: Brilliant, thanks, James. Well, first of all, obviously you guys have got my contact details. So if they remember nothing from this other than the contact, you'll get to us. Our business is Harrier Global Limited. We do have a website. I am on LinkedIn. I'm also on Instagram. Harrier Global is on Instagram. I'll either mix that out maybe as much as I should. I can be emailed at jeff at harrierglobal.com and my telephone number. JK: That's Jeff with a J, by the way. You're Jeff with a J. J E F. Jeff Hill: Yeah, put the J, good point. J-E-E-E-L-L at harryaglobal.com. And for those people that want to contact you, then obviously, or go to the website, you can secure my telephone number if you need to speak to me. And just to reaffirm what you said there, I'm happy to speak to anybody. And I don't just mean clients. mean, people who just want a bit of advice, want to steer, just give me a call and I'll happily give you my time. As far as clients are concerned, More than happy, we work across the country. I've got clients in Newcastle, I've got clients in Sandbanks and everywhere in between. So if you've got a client that has got some concerns, I'm happy to speak to them on the phone. Equally, I'm very happy to go and see them, explain what we do, because it doesn't cost them anything for a conversation. And then, you know, we can have a further conversation with them if they want to employ us in one capacity or another. So we're easy to get a hold of, we're very easy to do business with. And I'm more than happy if people want to just give me a call for a chat. to give them their time, so please feel free. JK: Perfect. Well, thanks ever so much for giving up your time to go on. It's been a great episode. And everyone for listening, thanks so much. We will see you next week. Jeff Hill: Thank you.