Latest / eCommerce Podcast / 7 Micro Influencer Marketing Tips Most Brands Miss Completely | William Gasner

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7 Micro Influencer Marketing Tips Most Brands Miss Completely | William Gasner · eCommerce Podcast

0:04
Wow.
0:04
Hello, I'm Matt Edmundson and you are listening to the eCommerce Podcast.
0:10
Now, I've been an eCommerce since 2002.
0:14
If you're regular to the show, you'll know this, but if you're new
0:16
to the show, a very warm welcome.
0:19
Like you, I run my own eCommerce business.
0:22
Has been in the trenches, been been there.
0:24
Seen that, done that, got the t-shirt, and just love chatting
0:27
to people about eCommerce.
0:29
And these days I partner with eCommerce brands to help them grow, scale and exit.
0:35
That's kind of what I get into.
0:36
And if you'd like to know more about that and how that works and whether or
0:39
not we could work together, head over to our website, ecommerce-podcast.net
0:43
or one word ecommerce-podcast.net.
0:46
Now, today, ladies and gentlemen, you'll be pleased to know.
0:49
We are talking about that most delectable and delightful conversation.
0:54
All to do with influencer marketing.
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We have a go-to expert on this.
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Mr. William.
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We are gonna be chatting to him.
1:00
So William, welcome to the show.
1:02
Great to have you on, man.
1:03
Uh, appreciate you being here.
1:05
And I'd like I said to you before, hit the record button.
1:07
Let's just hit the ground running.
1:08
Influencer marketing.
1:09
We all screw it up.
1:11
What's the, what's the main way we screw up influencer
1:13
marketing and how can we fix it?
1:15
Well, first off, thanks for having me on, Matt.
1:17
I'm excited to dive in.
1:18
So hit the ground running.
1:20
Um, biggest thing.
1:23
How people screw up influencer marketing is their perception of
1:28
what influencers are and putting too many eggs in one basket.
1:32
so when most people think about influencers, you think of the Kardashians,
1:36
you think of these celebrities with millions of followers, right?
1:40
Yeah.
1:41
social media's changed a lot in the past decade where it used to
1:45
be the fact that you went on social media, you posted on a Monday and.
1:51
If all of your followers were on social by Wednesday, they
1:55
would all have seen your content.
1:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:58
And now
1:58
I remember those days.
1:59
The good old days.
2:00
Absolutely.
2:02
It was very, it was much easier, honestly, like, and, and follower base
2:05
was a very, very important metric.
2:07
that's kind of now gone out the window.
2:09
And most people, like when they're going after influencer marketing, they're
2:12
like, I'm only gonna work with the people with that big follower base.
2:17
where things have shifted is a content led strategy.
2:20
So how the social platforms have changed is that if you're not producing
2:25
really good content, regardless of your follower base, only a certain percentage
2:29
of your followers are actually going to see the content that you put out.
2:33
Um, and so what's happened is these celebrities, these people with millions
2:37
of followers, sometimes only 1% or less than 1% of their audience actually ends up
2:42
Yeah.
2:42
the stuff that they actually create, right?
2:46
What the social platforms have also done is if, if there's someone produces a
2:51
really great piece of content, they're not just gonna show that to the people who
2:54
are following them, they're gonna start showing that beyond their follower base.
2:58
And so, um, you could literally have a thousand followers on social media and
3:03
get a post that gets a million views.
3:05
And
3:05
Yep.
3:06
These social shifts have changed the playing field, and it's a big
3:11
mistake people really do is that they just focus and pay huge amounts of
3:15
money to someone with this massive follower base as opposed to focusing
3:19
on the content someone produces.
3:22
Who they're catering to, kind of the niche audience.
3:25
And it's, it's also shifted this playing field to allow much smaller
3:29
creators to become as valuable as these celebrity promotions promoters,
3:34
Yeah.
3:35
and open the gateway, we call it, democratizing the social
3:38
media or the influencer world.
3:40
Um, and it made these, what the industry calls nano or micro
3:43
influencers, much more powerful in 2025.
3:47
It's a really interesting comment because I, I, one of the things that I've noticed
3:50
will, and, and maybe you can talk to this, right, uh, I'm a big fan of YouTube.
3:55
Um, just I, I watch it a lot, right?
3:57
As a lot of people do, and I, I have my hobbies.
4:00
I like wood.
4:01
Working.
4:02
I like doing those kind of things and I will watch videos on how to, I
4:06
don't know, do this particular type of wood joint or something like that.
4:11
One of the things that I have noticed, the videos that, that are starting to come up
4:15
more and more on my feed are not the how to get a million followers on YouTube.
4:20
Um, it's more now how to make.
4:24
$150,000 from a hundred followers on YouTube, right?
4:28
It seems to be that the change has been around.
4:34
Not grow a big ass audience, but actually take what you've
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got and monetize that deeply.
4:40
In other words, there are ways that you can make small audiences work for you.
4:45
This is kind of what my interpretation of those, uh, titles are, and
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I'm seeing that more and more.
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I'm seeing it more in the podcasting world.
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Um.
4:52
On one of our, uh, sort of sister company podcasts, if you
4:56
want of a better expression.
4:57
Um, we had, um, someone was recently talking about how they made 150
5:04
grand, but only had like a hundred followers or a hundred downloads
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or something on their podcast.
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I mean, it was, it is crazy, you know, the, sort of the numbers.
5:11
But this is what we're noticing more and more, right?
5:12
It's less and less about the big numbers.
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It's more and more about what you can do with the small audiences.
5:19
So when, when I hear you talking.
5:22
I'm hearing you say to someone like me who's an econ brand, sure.
5:26
You can go after, I think you used the example of Beyonce or whoever
5:30
it was, you know, Britney Spears.
5:32
I don't know.
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Kylie Minogue, uh, would be more my era.
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Um, I. But that's expensive for not guaranteed success.
5:40
But actually you can now use the micro influencers.
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The whole thing is democratized.
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And like you say, certainly I see this on TikTok.
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I can, I can post something on TikTok with an account that's got 68
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followers and it'll get thousands and thousands of views in interactions.
5:57
Um, it,
5:58
spearheaded this trend.
6:00
Yeah.
6:01
It seems to be, I, I dunno if it's tiktoks way of, um, getting you sucked
6:06
into the platform, you know, you're a new account, we're gonna give you
6:08
stupid views to make you feel like you're doing something special.
6:12
Um, and it sort of dies off a little bit.
6:14
I dunno, but I'm, I'm intrigued by this idea of micro influencers.
6:19
But before we get back into that whole topic, the smaller numbers thing,
6:22
the other thing you mentioned, so you mentioned perception, but you
6:25
said too many eggs in one basket.
6:27
What did you mean by that?
6:28
Yeah, so as an eCommerce brand or honestly any brand, right?
6:33
Um, you only have a limited marketing budget and naturally influencers
6:39
with a massive following, millions of followers, they're going to charge you.
6:43
And same thing would be for a podcast or anyone with this massive follower base.
6:48
their fee for a sponsorship or um, a promotion is gonna be quite big.
6:53
Hmm.
6:54
And the reality is, is you're putting, by putting most of your marketing budget
6:59
into that bet, you are putting a lot of your eggs in one basket in the sense
7:03
that like it could be hit or miss.
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And that's the
7:06
Yeah.
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'cause of how things have changed.
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Like if that celebrity doesn't produce that best content for your.
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first off, it's not gonna go beyond their follower base and it might
7:16
be only to a very limited pool.
7:18
Whereas if you a lot of your eggs in multiple baskets, right, like
7:23
Mm.
7:24
your risk across maybe a hundred different smaller creators, um, you are increasing
7:30
your chances of that viral moment.
7:32
You are increasing your overall engagement levels across each
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one of those individual profiles.
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'cause of the smaller profiles naturally.
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people who care, right?
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It's like
7:42
Yeah.
7:42
close acquaintances, passionate followers who are actually in their follower pool.
7:47
And it's more authentic, right?
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Like when you have a small audience, you're real, you're not like truly fake.
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You're not getting paid massive amounts of money for a promotion,
7:57
which about a product that you do not care anything about, right?
8:02
Um, like a lot of these smaller creators sometimes do things because they
8:06
actually just love the product itself.
8:08
They'll do it for free
8:09
Yeah.
8:09
Um, so it just becomes this much more authentic thing.
8:12
And, and just one other note to add to your note about what you're seeing
8:17
in the YouTube world, um, the social platforms, what they realized is like
8:22
when social media first developed, um, they wanted to get as many
8:27
people following everyone, right?
8:28
Like more people you followed.
8:30
I think Facebook's kind of growth hack was like, we want 10, follow
8:34
someone to follow or get 10 friends in.
8:37
Um, 30 days or something
8:39
Yeah.
8:40
Right?
8:40
And it was like the more connections you had, the more you
8:42
became sticky to the platform.
8:45
as things evolved, what happened was like you started following random
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people you didn't really care about.
8:50
You know what I mean?
8:51
Like your friend was following it, it was a recommended thing.
8:54
Someone you
8:54
Yeah.
8:55
ago, like you just also, then all of a sudden you had thousand, you were
8:58
following hundreds or thousands of people that like, you didn't really.
9:03
Like their content or engage with their content, right?
9:05
And then when you went on to a Facebook, an Instagram, like you would, your
9:11
feed would then just be filled up with all this content from people that you
9:15
had followed at one point, but you don't really care about their life or
9:17
about what their story is, et cetera.
9:19
And then you just leave the platform.
9:21
And they hate that, right?
9:22
They want to keep you sticky.
9:24
And obviously there's a play of just feeding you new stuff
9:27
to kind of get you hooked.
9:28
But the real reality is, if.
9:30
There is some piece of content that someone produced that's really, really
9:33
engaging and everyone loves it, right?
9:36
odds are that someone who's not following that account would like it to
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are pretty high, and so now Instagram TikTok is showing you content that
9:45
just overall has very high engagement
9:48
Mm-hmm.
9:48
gonna make people stay on the platform, and so.
9:53
I mean like the, there's this new saying, obviously it's not super
9:56
new, but like content is king, right?
9:57
And it, and it rings true, um, in the influencer world and the
10:00
social media world dramatically as well because, and it gives this
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power to these smaller creators.
10:06
Um, and to your point, like gone are the days where you really needed to
10:11
have this top podcast with thousands, hundreds of thousands of accounts.
10:16
Same thing on the social side for the influencers, um, to be a
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really valuable asset to a brand.
10:21
And now you can really work, diversify that budget across a much
10:25
smaller creators and, um, just get a much better bang for your buck.
10:30
That's so true.
10:31
I think it's, um, and, and also it flips what I'm hearing, which I
10:37
think is delightfully refreshing, is, is it flips the script, right?
10:41
So, um, I I, I'm a, you know, a small e-comm business, for example, I don't
10:47
have to, I don't have to worry if I haven't got 20,000 followers on my
10:52
brand's Instagram account, right?
10:54
Yeah.
10:55
I, I, I just, I can do more with a hundred well-intentioned followers
10:59
than I can do with 20,000 people that could care less about my brand, right?
11:03
That never really engage with it.
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And so I think it, it, it feels like it works both ways.
11:08
It's like, as I use influencer marketing, I don't necessarily need to
11:12
be concerned about the numbers per se.
11:14
There are things I do need to care about, which we'll get into.
11:17
Yeah.
11:17
also when I'm building my own Insta, my own social media channels, my
11:22
own podcast, my YouTube channel, my own Instagram, whatever it is, um,
11:26
I think we're slowly becoming less and less concerned about the numbers.
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And there are other, as in the follow account, there are things which, which
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are a lot more interesting to us.
11:35
Um, which I, I think takes the pressure off, uh, in, in, in many ways for people.
11:41
Um, I read a stat here which said almost half of all consumers.
11:46
So when it says almost half, it said 49%, which I'm gonna say is actually
11:50
half, um, half of all consumers make a purchase at least once a
11:55
month because of influencer posts.
11:59
Absolutely.
12:00
Yeah,
12:01
I mean, that's a, it's an incredible stat.
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I.
12:04
It is, it is, um, it is remarkable and it, it shows the power, right?
12:10
It's like, and the real reality behind it, and this is something influencers have
12:14
kind of, a lot of people have perceived them as this weird negative connotation,
12:19
like this sellout, like who's just, are all sparkles and glitter, right?
12:25
Um, but the essence of influencers is really word of mouth marketing, right?
12:30
It's.
12:30
Yeah.
12:30
A trusted referral from someone who you some affinity towards
12:36
or trust their opinion, right?
12:38
Um, and like that is the oldest and mo best marketing tactic in
12:44
the history of the world, right?
12:45
Yeah.
12:45
you trust your friends more than ads more than anything else.
12:50
And what's happened is we've this, in this digital era of social media, you become
12:55
friends with all of these different.
12:57
People across the world, right?
12:59
Maybe not a very close acquaintance, but like you trust them in some
13:02
capacity, especially the smaller kind of people who are more niche, right?
13:06
Who like you're really, we like to honestly shift the term of
13:09
influencers to passion promoters.
13:11
Like if you're passionate about something, you're passionate
13:13
about woodworking, right?
13:14
You're gonna be following accounts that are like master woodworkers.
13:18
Maybe they're not professional woodworkers who own this like multinational
13:22
woodworking corporation, right?
13:24
But.
13:25
They're in their shop, they're making really great things, and
13:29
they're teaching you how to do what you want to do best, right?
13:32
And so you trust them.
13:33
And so when they're gonna recommend some wood glue or the best kind of jigsaw
13:38
to actually use, to cut your wood, um, you're gonna probably actually trust them
13:43
more than that multinational company or that CEO is going to tell you what to do.
13:48
Yeah, without a doubt.
13:50
That's, it comes down to why now, like one outta two sales are coming from, uh,
13:56
from these influencer emotions online.
13:58
Yeah, it's, it's incredible.
13:59
It's incredible.
14:01
Ladies and gentlemen, listen, if you are enjoying this show and why would you not
14:04
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14:09
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14:13
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14:16
We've got one in New Zealand, uh, and Australia.
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So starting in the summer in the States, a new one starting
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14:25
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14:30
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14:34
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14:37
That's ecommerce-podcast.net.
14:40
Now let's talk about the how then will, because I, I get it.
14:45
I, I, I, I've just written a series of blog posts actually, which is
14:49
slowly getting released on LinkedIn.
14:50
A small plug for my LinkedIn can follow me on LinkedIn at my Edmundson anyway, um.
14:56
I've just read a series of posts on LinkedIn about story, um, and using
15:01
story to effectively engage people and how actually Google Analytics
15:04
can't measure this that well, right?
15:07
It Google Analytics can't tell you if somebody smiled when
15:10
they were on your webpage.
15:11
One of the things that came out in that research, which I thought was
15:14
fascinating, was about 60 to 70% of.
15:21
Um, your direct traffic is probably coming from referrals, but no one
15:27
knows how to capture that, whether that's they've seen a influencer
15:31
post somewhere, or whether that's a friend telling them or whatever it is.
15:36
I mean, it's again, stupid high amounts of data, which we just
15:39
can't measure, and we just.
15:41
I think because it's not a metric we see on Google Analytics, it's one of those
15:45
things that just sort of goes down the bottom of the list, isn't it really?
15:48
Yeah,
15:48
Um, so the big question then is how, how do I get started?
15:52
How do I do this?
15:53
How do I, how do I do this?
15:54
Well,
15:56
great question.
15:57
So little backstory on myself.
16:00
Very brief.
16:01
I was actually an eCommerce seller since 2008.
16:03
Little after you in 2002.
16:06
But, um,
16:07
I.
16:07
to actually also make some do woodworking.
16:09
I sold cutting boards, handmade cutting boards,
16:13
Very popular with YouTubers.
16:15
Yes.
16:15
yeah, um, jewelry, toy products, teeth whitening products.
16:20
So the whole gambit across my own eCommerce websites, Amazon, you name it.
16:26
how I got into influencer marketing was I was using it and how I ended up starting.
16:30
The company that I have today, which is Stack Influence, that helps
16:33
brands, um, actually connect and scale micro influencers, um, across
16:39
the eCommerce e ecosystem, was I was using these tactics myself.
16:43
And so to answer your question of how.
16:46
Um, how do you start?
16:48
Right?
16:48
Um, so how we started when we were first kind of getting our feet
16:51
wet was we did the whole gambit.
16:53
And when I also talked about putting all your eggs in one basket, don't, and like
16:57
celebrity influencers can be hit or miss sometimes they can work fantastic, right?
17:01
Like you find the right creator who's really like right in your niche and,
17:06
um, you pay them $10,000, right?
17:08
Sometimes it can be a fantastic ROI, it just can be a risk.
17:12
And so.
17:14
We use the full spectrum of different types of influencers and went out
17:17
after the celebrities by finding maybe someone on YouTube or Instagram
17:21
and DMing them or finding their agent, getting in touch with them.
17:24
Right.
17:25
Um, wasn't too complex usually to, if you're trying to pay
17:28
someone thousands of dollars to, uh, get them to take your money.
17:31
Right.
17:32
Um, but what we ended up starting to realize was as this social media platform
17:38
shift happened and content became kind of more of the forefront strategy and
17:43
us realizing that like, Hey, we just sent a free product to someone who had
17:48
5,000 followers, and that post drove us more sales than the $10,000 we.
17:53
to this like person with 5 million followers, right?
17:56
Um, it was a crazy like, epiphany.
17:59
And so we were like, how do we get more of these types of people?
18:02
And the initial strategy is just diving extremely deep into media search, right?
18:11
So let's say that you are selling a yoga mat and you're trying to,
18:14
or actually, um, a protein powder.
18:17
You're trying to find people who are interested in health and wellness, right?
18:19
Maybe you search.
18:22
Um, different fitness gyms, right?
18:24
Like LA Fitness or, um, different 24 Hour Fitness, right?
18:29
Like, and people who are tagging those.
18:30
If someone's tagging that on social media, probably interested in fitness,
18:34
they're probably passionate about it.
18:35
They might be interested in a protein powder that you're selling, right?
18:38
And so then really just start.
18:41
DMing these people trying to get their email addresses outreaching, creating a,
18:45
some sort of pitch to them of what the value that you're offering is not maybe
18:50
just a free product, but maybe you're gonna give them a commission of sales.
18:53
They share an affiliate link.
18:55
Um, maybe you give them rewards if they actually certain goals
18:59
with impressions, et cetera.
19:01
So come up with a pitch.
19:02
Come up with a brief of kind of.
19:05
Give them creative control, but you wanna push them in the right direction, right?
19:08
You wanna make sure that that content is aligned with your
19:10
brand and your aesthetic.
19:13
give them a deadline and, and try to get them to do the promotion.
19:17
Takes a decent amount of work.
19:18
And it took us a lot of work in the beginning.
19:21
And part of the reason why Stack Influence our company even started was
19:26
because we started building out internal tools, um, to optimize this process.
19:30
The biggest challenge we faced was.
19:34
we were deciding to scale and we wanted to do like hundreds or thousands of
19:38
promotions for certain products and new launches, it became very difficult to
19:43
find enough people in a short timeframe.
19:45
Like I wanna, how do you find a thousand people to do promotions in a month?
19:48
Right?
19:48
I. for the most part.
19:50
But like we started to build out automation tools in-house, like a lot
19:54
of things like scraping AP or tapping into APIs on social media to kind of do
20:00
those searches to find the right people.
20:02
Auto email campaigns.
20:04
Putting people into follow up sequence, like sequences to actually reengage with
20:09
them, remind them of certain tactics.
20:11
and that really became the foundation of stack influence,
20:14
Right.
20:15
and why we started as a company in general, but very accessible for
20:18
any brand to get their feet wet.
20:20
And some people, when you're an e-commerce brand, especially if you're
20:23
just starting out, um, you think it's inaccessible, but like absolutely you can
20:28
find 10, 20 people who are willing to.
20:31
Um, if not, do something for just a free product exchange, at
20:34
least do something for affiliate commissions or a small monetary fee.
20:38
Maybe it'd be a hundred bucks per post.
20:39
Right.
20:40
Um, and test the market.
20:42
And that's a really important thing to get started, is like not every
20:46
product is promoted in the same way.
20:49
Um, and you need to kind of, different influencers do different
20:53
creative things, so you wanna.
20:55
create this initial brief of what you think might work.
20:58
Um, put it out there, start getting feedback, start seeing what types of
21:02
influencers content they're creating.
21:05
Take those results and take those learnings and then apply that to
21:09
kind of your next batch, right?
21:11
And, and refine that strategy.
21:12
Like honestly any other marketing initiative.
21:15
But it is key.
21:16
'cause social media changes so rapidly, you to kind of
21:19
consistently be evolving, but.
21:21
That's basically my recommendation for do it yourself system.
21:24
And if you're trying, if you have the budget and want to use a platform like
21:29
tapping in, there's a lot of different influencer tools out there, whether
21:32
it's a database that you could tap into that's preexisting and tools
21:35
to out do cold outreach yourself.
21:37
Whether it's a system like Stack Influence that automates everything for
21:40
you if you don't have the bandwidth to.
21:43
Be manually outreaching to every, all these people.
21:46
Um, and now even the social platforms have some portals to find people
21:51
Yeah.
21:51
interested in doing it.
21:52
Like Amazon, if you're an Amazon seller, has their own Amazon kind of influencer
21:56
portal, can find good people there.
21:59
TikTok has kind of a little influencer platform.
22:02
Um, so another great way is to kind of utilize a system to filter and
22:07
find some good people for your brand.
22:09
Yeah.
22:09
That's great.
22:10
Thank you.
22:11
I, I'm intrigued.
22:12
Uh, um.
22:15
As I think through my, sort of my own journey with influencer
22:19
marketing, so having been approached a lot, so I get approached by
22:23
people to sponsor the podcast.
22:25
'cause obviously the podcast has influence.
22:27
Um,
22:28
Absolutely.
22:28
uh, I get approached, I remember how it, I. For me how it started.
22:34
I got approached by a bike company.
22:38
Um, I bought an electric bike, um, from a company called Ampler.
22:42
They were a small brand in Estonia.
22:44
I bought it off Kickstarter, um, years ago.
22:48
And I, I, when I got the bike, I just said to the guy that was in our office,
22:51
he, the, the, one of the designers, I just pick up a camera, let's just shoot
22:54
a YouTube video on opening this bite.
22:57
'cause no one knew anything about them.
22:59
So I thought it'd be interesting.
23:00
I'll throw it on YouTube and see what happens.
23:02
Um, and I, I, I threw this thing on YouTube and it was interesting
23:06
'cause no one else had done a video about this particular brand of bike.
23:09
So it became number one.
23:10
And then I did another video and that became number two.
23:13
And it started to get thousands of views and I. It didn't take long for
23:16
that company to go, well, actually a lot of people are watching these videos
23:19
and they're making a buying decision based on what you've said in the video.
23:22
So when they did the next model ranges, they're like, can you
23:25
do some more videos for us?
23:26
We'll send you the bikes.
23:27
I'm like, sure, man.
23:28
See, it was, it was just flattering to be asked if I was honest with you.
23:33
Um, and so it, it became this really interesting sort of
23:38
symbiotic relationship in many ways.
23:41
But then I, I also think about some of the companies that we have, um, with
23:47
Econ brands, and I guess I'm thinking about some of the people that I've
23:52
connected with, whether it's through Cohort, whether it's through coaching.
23:55
It's not all I. It's not all sunshine and rainbows with influencer marketing
24:01
and, uh, the, the to listen to you talk is you go worse is a no brainer.
24:05
And it sounds all very simple.
24:06
Let's get started and see what happens, but where does it go wrong and how can
24:09
we mitigate for those circumstances?
24:12
Absolutely great questions.
24:15
So first off, not every product works for influencers, right?
24:20
Um, as a simple example, like athlete's foot cream.
24:26
Sells millions of dollars every year, right?
24:28
Yeah.
24:29
wanna go on social media and talk about foot fungus?
24:31
Probably a few of them would be okay with doing that.
24:34
But like, and if you're gonna pay someone tens of thousands of dollars, but.
24:39
It's gonna be very hard to get a lot of people interested in
24:42
Mm-hmm.
24:42
And so there's certain sensitivity to what people are willing to actually
24:47
promote to their family and friends.
24:49
An electric bike, right?
24:50
Like, fantastic, gimme that bike.
24:52
I'll create some content for you.
24:53
Absolutely.
24:53
Worth, worth my while.
24:55
Um, but other content, like especially in the product seeding world, like
24:59
where I'm just sending something free, maybe it's just not enough of a value.
25:03
Like you're like, this is a $5 product.
25:05
Why am I going to.
25:07
Do all of this effort to create a nice video, et cetera, um,
25:11
for your small product that is not giving me much value, right?
25:14
And you want to compensate people for their time, it has to be worth it.
25:18
So that's one thing to think about is like the product that you're selling needs to
25:24
be the right fit for the right people.
25:26
And that
25:26
Yeah.
25:27
of backfire because you're just gonna spend a huge amount of effort
25:30
outreaching to people, and no one's going to kind of pick up on your, um.
25:36
or really just don't do a very good job at promoting it because it's
25:39
just not that much value for them.
25:42
The second thing I would say that is difficult is, um, again, crafting, giving
25:49
people creative control, but giving them direction and in and good direction
25:54
to what you expect as quality content.
25:57
Right.
25:58
And that can be very subjective 'cause.
26:01
In my days of selling products, like sometimes we had some like, kind of not
26:07
totally blurry, but like iPhone video that wasn't super high quality, um,
26:12
that ended up converting on the ads.
26:15
We ran with
26:15
Yep.
26:16
times better than like the perfectly curated like Sony film,
26:21
like beautiful camera, right?
26:23
Um, and so it's sometimes hard to tell what's gonna work and what's
26:26
not, but at the same time, that's why it's really important to.
26:30
Um, do those tests.
26:32
Now, if you're doing the product seeding strategy, you're sending a bunch of
26:36
free products and you're doing it at scale, there is going to be content
26:41
you're going to get back, and this is an expectation that you should
26:44
understand that is not very good.
26:46
Right?
26:46
Like that you would never
26:48
I am laughing because I've seen said content.
26:51
Uh, yes.
26:51
Many times.
26:52
And you're gonna like hit yourself on the head and be like, what
26:55
was this person even thinking?
26:57
Right.
26:58
I don't like we usually, it's like there's pato distribution to everything, right?
27:02
So like you're gonna see 20% of the content outta the 2080 principle is
27:08
like going to be absolutely fantastic.
27:10
Like something you should have paid someone if you gave 'em a free product,
27:13
like thousands of dollars to create like,
27:15
Hmm.
27:16
You wouldn't have even been able to find that person is like so creative.
27:19
Unbelievable.
27:20
It converts really well, it's fantastic.
27:23
Um, another 20% is probably going to be mediocre, like not, not very good.
27:29
And then the, the rest of the bulk of the 60% is gonna be average.
27:33
And that's kind of, that is at least in the micro nano world, like a lot
27:37
of these people aren't professionals.
27:40
They don't do this for a career, right.
27:42
Um, they're doing, and this is on the product seating side of things, right?
27:48
Um, so content is something that you have to kind of settle your expectations with.
27:53
But the reality is, is going back to like that really not that great content
27:57
that we thought wasn't that great.
27:58
'cause like aesthetically and visually, it like wasn't like super popping.
28:02
It still converted really well.
28:04
And that's the surprising thing.
28:06
And you'll see this on social media.
28:07
Like you'll see these videos that like.
28:09
Are shaky and like, but like they're kind of exciting.
28:13
Um, but it was like filmed by someone like with like a flip phone and you're like,
28:18
and it has like millions of views, you
28:20
Yeah.
28:20
And so is where that diversification of risk, like spreading out a lot
28:26
of different promotions, trying a lot of things, is the goal
28:29
Mm-hmm.
28:30
upset, um, with.
28:33
Like, oh, you got some bad stuff.
28:35
Like, this is all influencers are horrible, right?
28:38
Like you gotta, you gotta let it test out and maybe run some ads with it.
28:42
Like, really Like see, time to actually implement and see results.
28:48
Now as a last follow up thing to that, sometimes influencer promotions
28:53
right off the bat don't work, but in a longer term, like one, one
28:57
promotion off, like a singular one didn't drive any sales, right?
29:02
I. But then to your point, like that person sometimes maybe is like
29:06
amazing advocate to their friend.
29:07
They're actually using the product that starts driving
29:10
sales somewhat harder to track.
29:12
But a real reality that we started to see was like, as we started to seed out
29:15
products, we'd get these initial results that we'd track from the influencer
29:20
promotions itself, but then all of a sudden we'd start to incrementally
29:24
see like our overall sales just.
29:26
Jacking up without us doing anything and like shifting
29:30
any of our other advertising, other marketing budgets, right?
29:33
And there were these massive halo effects that came from just
29:37
Yeah.
29:37
product into the hands of people.
29:39
Um, I mean, some people literally do a product seeding strategy where
29:43
you just ship products out to people without asking anything in return, and
29:46
there's value to that alone, right?
29:48
So that's something to actually really understand and to also understand that.
29:55
Maybe the first promotion, that first piece of content that someone
29:58
created didn't work out totally well, maybe it was timing, maybe it
30:01
was the style that they produced.
30:03
There's a variety of factors that can go into it.
30:05
Um, but giving them an affiliate join, having them join like an affiliate
30:10
commission program, excuse me, where they're getting 10% to keep promoting.
30:15
Maybe they promote two, three other times and this has happened to us.
30:18
And then like they became our best kind of sales.
30:22
Influencer, like they were driving a crazy amount of sales when their first
30:26
one, like didn't do anything for us.
30:29
Um, and so it's kind of like, don't give up and, but that is things
30:33
that can actually happen that are on the negative side to your point.
30:35
Like, it's like you're gonna get promotions that don't
30:38
drive anything for you.
30:39
And content that like you think really sucks.
30:42
And it's like.
30:44
Take it with a grain of salt in
30:46
Mm-hmm.
30:47
gives people second chances and try to create longer term relationships with
30:52
people and utilize content in different ways and test it out because sometimes
30:56
your perceptions aren't always what the actual mass consumer market feels.
31:01
That's super practical.
31:02
I love that.
31:03
I guess I, and, and, and listening to you talk, I'm, I'm forming the strategy
31:07
in my head, which says, right, what I should do is, um, product seed.
31:11
So, you know, it's easy enough to send, for example, our supplement business
31:14
that you, you can send product out.
31:16
That's not a problem.
31:16
You know, go, go try that product.
31:18
I. Actually don't just do that.
31:21
Actually form a relationship with them, which says, actually,
31:23
here's some free product, plus, here's a, an affiliate thing.
31:26
These are some of our content guidelines.
31:28
Have at it, knock yourself out.
31:29
We just wanna be able to use 'em as ads, right?
31:32
I wanna retain some kind of creative control over these.
31:34
Not control, but I wanna be able to use this content, right?
31:37
exactly.
31:38
and so.
31:41
That, that feels very sensible to me because the cost of the product in
31:46
some respects and sending it out to them is an expense, but it's not huge.
31:51
Um, and actually you've given free product, whether they decide to
31:55
do something with it or not is, is I guess, entirely up to them.
31:58
And you want them to be motivated.
31:59
And the ones which go, well, the first one bomb, let's try it again.
32:02
And it, it kind of, you know, that one hit home and they're
32:05
killing it on the commission.
32:06
We had one lady who, um.
32:09
With our beauty business.
32:11
She wrote a blog, a single blog post, um, which was sent, we made at least
32:20
60 grand a month in sales off that one blog post that I could track.
32:23
Um, and so we reached out to her and said, listen, do you wanna
32:26
set up this, uh, affiliate thing?
32:28
Man, your blog post is killing it and you may wanna write some more blog posts.
32:31
She goes, no, no.
32:32
I just really like the product.
32:32
Really like you guys just gonna leave it alone.
32:34
She could have made six grand a month.
32:37
She was just like, yeah, no.
32:38
I was like, I love you lady.
32:42
Love you can just, it is awesome.
32:44
And I think, um, I like the idea of the long-term relationship.
32:48
I guess one question that comes to mind Will, as I listen to you talk,
32:52
is should I start, I've got 150,000 customers on my database, um, for,
32:59
uh, or whatever the numbers are.
33:02
Should I email that 150,000 people and say, Hey, we're starting
33:04
this new affiliate scheme.
33:05
Would anybody be interested in joining, um, or influencer the
33:09
scheme, or whatever we wanna call it?
33:11
Is that a good place to start or is it better to actually start with, say,
33:15
a platform like yours where you are sort of one stage removed from people?
33:19
Honestly, I think outreaching to your customer list is a fantastic way to start.
33:24
Um, you don't know.
33:26
who those customers are, what their follower bases are, what their engagement
33:31
levels, what their creativity levels are.
33:33
Um, they also already have your product,
33:36
Yeah.
33:37
product is.
33:37
If it's a consumable, they've already eaten it.
33:39
Right?
33:40
Um, then maybe it's gone.
33:41
But if you have a product that even a beauty product that's consumable,
33:45
like, or can be used over time, maybe they still have it, right?
33:50
And so now you don't have to actually send out.
33:52
A new product as an extra expense.
33:55
Um, and there's some kind of guarantees of, this is one issue with product seeding
34:00
is, and you kind of briefly brought this up, you shive a whole bunch of products
34:05
to people with expectations of them ideally doing something in return for
34:09
it, and then a decent portion of them, platforms and agencies who do this, like
34:15
say like 30 to 50%, you send products out, you don't get anything in return.
34:19
Right.
34:19
Um.
34:21
So by reaching out to your customer base that mitigates that, right?
34:24
They already have the product.
34:25
There's no loss.
34:26
If they don't create a post, there's, you didn't lose any inventory.
34:29
Mm-hmm.
34:30
Um, we actually at Stack Influence have created a similar
34:35
model to a customer base model.
34:36
We actually before, in order for an influencer to receive a
34:39
product through Stack Influence.
34:41
They actually have to become a real consumer of the brand first
34:45
Right.
34:45
they can collaborate.
34:46
We get them to go buy the product with their own money.
34:48
And then we have a cashback system where it's like, Hey, you did the social post.
34:53
We'll give you your money back.
34:54
We'll give you maybe some cash rewards.
34:56
We'll give you some affiliate commissions after the fact.
34:58
Um, so you kind of get monetarily rewarded after you do the thing.
35:03
But if they end up not promoting for us, hey, they just.
35:06
I made a free sale.
35:08
They just became a real customer.
35:09
Yeah.
35:10
the product anyway.
35:11
Yeah.
35:11
harm with how.
35:12
Um, but it's a, it's a great way because you're, at the end of the
35:16
day, also the best promotions are real auth, like authenticity is
35:20
key and your customers are actual authentic promoters of your product.
35:24
They, they spent their hard earned money to buy your product, like they are a true
35:30
representation of who should be a great advocate for you as long as they liked it.
35:34
Yeah.
35:35
Um, so it's a great way to do it.
35:37
I absolutely just, especially to get your feet wet.
35:40
Um, not only on a cost saving way, but also honestly on a promotional way.
35:44
We've, we've had a fantastic, there's actually now, I believe a Shopify,
35:49
um, plugin that will do that.
35:51
It'll identify if you have Shopify, um, identifies your customers who
35:56
potentially could be creators and you can tap into that, um, yourself.
36:01
So, um, absolutely
36:03
That's interesting.
36:04
Yeah.
36:04
Yeah.
36:04
I. It makes lot.
36:05
And I guess you can segment your customer data and you can go, well, these
36:08
guys have ordered two or three times.
36:10
So actually they like us a lot.
36:12
So, um, and it's, I think it's easy to say to a customer, listen,
36:15
this is what we're starting.
36:16
If you put out some post tags in there, and then we will
36:19
send you this as a result.
36:21
Right?
36:21
And it's, there's that mutual element of trust that it's gonna happen, but you're
36:25
not really sending out product until it does, but, and you're sending out product
36:28
to your best customers anyway, and they probably deserve it, so why would you not?
36:32
Right?
36:32
So,
36:32
Hundred
36:33
um.
36:35
What sort of, um, I, I appreciate this is how long's a piece of string, but
36:39
what sort of percentage of my marketing budget should I be thinking about here?
36:44
What sort of, is there a minimum sort of amount of money I should be thinking about
36:49
spending or is, is that too simplistic?
36:51
I.
36:52
No.
36:53
Um,
36:55
it depends on kind of what your growth strategy is and where your, what phase of.
37:02
Growth you are in with your e-commerce business, right?
37:06
When you're first starting out, new product launches, getting the word out.
37:09
It's like, in my opinion, one of the best times to do influencer marketing.
37:14
Um, because you're, you're killing multiple birds.
37:18
One stone, you're getting your product into the hands of
37:20
people when you first launch.
37:22
That's giving you just also product feedback.
37:24
It's product research, right?
37:25
Like, um, so that's insanely valuable.
37:28
Someone's gonna tell you right off the bat, Hey, your product sucks.
37:31
I'm not promoting this to my audience, and you can be like, what's wrong with it?
37:35
Right?
37:35
And then you can reiterate.
37:37
And so it's a great way to just get your product in the hands
37:39
of people to give you feedback.
37:41
second, just some initial awareness, right?
37:43
Like, um, people talking about it, some initial sales.
37:46
It's like the hardest thing when you're first starting off.
37:49
Third is influencers can dramatically actually help
37:52
with SEO, especially in 2025.
37:54
Um, AI agents as Google's investing more as perplexity and open ai, um, chat,
38:00
GPT people are using it for search.
38:02
They're feeding in social posts, so the post captions and the feeds,
38:07
and it's gonna be coming even more powerful as the years go on.
38:12
Yeah.
38:13
it's.
38:14
really helps boost up your SEO,
38:16
Yeah.
38:17
and if you're doing like blog post influencer promotions, which is kind
38:21
of actually how a lot of the online influencer stuff started, um, but it's
38:25
just becoming more and more impactful now.
38:29
Fourth is you're building up a initial network of advocates that
38:33
can consistently promote your product for those commissions.
38:36
In the long run, the quicker and the longer you build that up, the
38:39
larger you build it up, the better and more successful you're gonna be.
38:43
finally, is the content that you produce, right?
38:45
Like when you first start off I, when I did a photo shoot, et cetera, but
38:49
getting actually what the industry calls user generated content or
38:52
UGC, um, it converts better on ads.
38:56
People wanna see, they call social proof on a website, like real customers
39:00
using the product, actual feedback.
39:02
So building up, doing influencers, like it's, it's a brand
39:07
building exercise as well.
39:08
And so getting a whole bunch of content of real people using it.
39:12
Using that for social media, using that for online ads, using
39:15
that to strengthen your website.
39:17
All really, really valuable.
39:18
Right?
39:19
Um, and more impactful when you first launch.
39:21
'cause that's kind of the hardest thing to get, whether you're selling on your
39:25
website, whether you're selling on Amazon, like getting visibility or Walmart.
39:29
Um, it's hard to kind of kickstart and get a punch and influencer fantastic for that.
39:34
Now I would like.
39:38
If I had $10,000 to spend, let's say, on a marketing budget, which some
39:43
people don't even have that amount of money when you're first starting,
39:45
but nowadays things are competitive.
39:47
So you gotta have something to spend.
39:49
Yeah.
39:50
I'd at least spend 50% of that on influencers to start off.
39:54
Now, as you scale up, you're going to, um, figure out what channels work for
40:00
you, whether it's social ad channels, search channels, marketplace advertising.
40:05
If you're on Amazon.
40:06
Um, you're gonna wanna obviously do cac, LTV ratio analysis of like figuring
40:12
out exactly how, what channels are bringing you the best bang for your buck.
40:16
But I think influencers always should be part of the strategy.
40:18
I'm a bit biased here, but being an eCommerce seller myself, um, we always
40:24
spend at least 30% of our budget on influencers and sometimes up to 75%.
40:28
Yeah.
40:28
at certain times, just because of the power and the multi multitude
40:32
of value it actually provided us.
40:35
Um, Unilever just came out this year an announcement that they're in moving
40:40
50% of their entire advertising and marketing budget to influencers.
40:43
So one of the largest CPG companies in the world, um, is announcing that play.
40:49
So obviously something's working in, in the ecosystem.
40:53
Yeah, I Do you know Jay from Bold Commerce?
40:56
Have you come across Jay Smears from Bold Commerce?
40:58
Yeah, I believe so.
41:00
Jay's a really interesting guy.
41:01
I really like Jay.
41:02
I had, um, breakfast with him last year at Subs Summit.
41:05
Um, I'm not sure when this podcast is coming out, but if it's coming
41:08
out before subs, Sumit and you're gonna be there, let me know.
41:11
'cause I'd quite frankly like to meet you.
41:13
Um, but, uh, I, I, subs, Sumit, and I, and we were chatting away with Jay
41:16
and I said, Jay, listen, if you were gonna start, I love this question.
41:19
I said, if you were gonna start a beauty brand today, how would you do it?
41:21
And he looked at me and he said, I'd make it a members only site and I'd
41:25
do nothing but influence marketing.
41:27
It was that.
41:28
It was, it was, it was.
41:30
And that conversation lasted two hours, by the way.
41:32
But it was just a really great, um,
41:37
approach that he had that actually, no, I'll just do influence
41:40
marketing, forget everything else.
41:41
Do influence marketing.
41:42
Make it a member's only site.
41:43
What's wrong with you?
41:43
Why, why are we having this conversation?
41:45
It's, is this really interesting?
41:47
And so I, I I, I can see why it's fast becoming, especially because
41:52
Facebook's be a, you know, the.
41:55
I was having a conversation with someone today, Matt.
41:57
My, um, acquisition costs have doubled in the last month on Facebook.
42:01
Nothing else has changed what's going on and.
42:03
Google AdWords is becoming more and more problematic in many ways.
42:07
And, um, TikTok Shop is great if you're a certain type of product and you can
42:11
discount it and you can get on it, but it's, it's not as straightforward
42:15
as maybe we would like it to be.
42:17
But at the same time, influencer marketing, it is not really, like you
42:21
say, it's not going anywhere because it's been around what, for thousands of years.
42:25
We, you know, people tell stories to each other, don't they?
42:27
So, um, get on it.
42:30
Get on it.
42:31
Well, listen,
42:31
You don't
42:32
we've.
42:32
any budget to do it is the last thing, right?
42:34
Like if
42:35
Yeah.
42:36
you can ship free product out.
42:37
You have to put in some legwork to do that.
42:39
But like going back to the budget side, like yes, to scale you need some money,
42:44
Mm-hmm.
42:45
like if you're just starting out and you want to put in some manual effort,
42:47
like you better have product when you're first selling the product, start
42:51
shipping some free product out and
42:52
Yeah.
42:52
Yeah.
42:53
can literally start getting sales promotions, brand
42:57
building with zero marketing,
42:59
Yeah.
43:00
zero money in the bank.
43:01
So.
43:02
So true, so true.
43:04
Um.
43:06
Question for me, will I, I, this is where I, ladies and gentlemen, if you're new to
43:09
the show, I ask my guest for a question.
43:12
Uh, they give me that question.
43:13
I will answer that question over on LinkedIn.
43:15
Now, if you've been following me a little while, you'll go, Matt, there
43:18
are a few questions you've not actually answered on LinkedIn now, and I'll put
43:20
my hand up and say, yes, I've been a little bit slack on remiss on this, but
43:24
alas, the strategy and mechanism is now in place for me to do this on a regular
43:29
basis, which is a wonderful thing.
43:31
Um, so Will, what's your question for me?
43:36
Well, great question to me.
43:39
Um, inspired you to become an eCommerce Podcast influencer yourself?
43:47
Oh, an eCommerce Podcast influencer.
43:49
I love that.
43:51
EPI.
43:52
Why are you an EPI Matthew?
43:54
Uh, that's a great question If you wanna know my answer to that question.
43:57
Yeah, if you wanna, yes, absolutely.
44:00
If you wanna know my answer that question, come follow me
44:02
on LinkedIn at Matt Edmundson.
44:04
Well, listen, I great conversation, man.
44:07
Um, how do people reach you?
44:09
How do they connect with you if they wanna do that?
44:11
Absolutely.
44:12
Um, feel free to reach out directly to me.
44:14
My email is william@stackinfluence.com.
44:17
Happy to give advice overall if you're just getting started
44:20
or wanna start scaling up.
44:21
Influencer marketing.
44:23
And if you're interested in a platform that helps you automate, and also
44:27
with that scaling of the micro influencers and product seating,
44:31
um, check out stackinfluence.com.
44:33
That's my company.
44:34
Um, you can go to the website, you can quickly sign up right
44:37
at the top right corner.
44:38
Um, find us on every single social platform at Stack Influence.
44:43
and yeah, that's basically it.
44:45
Fantastic.
44:45
We will of course, link to that information in the show notes,
44:50
which you can get along for free with all kinds of insights.
44:54
We, uh, with our newsletter, we started to really, uh, we're
44:57
just about to launch version.
44:58
2.0 I suppose.
45:00
I dunno, it's probably more like version 10.0, but it, we are
45:03
gonna launch a new version of our newsletter in the coming weeks.
45:06
We are really putting some effort into this and making, uh, adding some
45:09
real value to the whole podcast thing.
45:11
So that is available for free as well at ecommerce-podcast.net.
45:15
It will contain all of the links to, well as does the website
45:18
ecommerce-podcast.net, as does the show notes, which, let's be real.
45:21
You can get the show notes just by scrolling down on your podcast
45:24
app, so you can do that as well.
45:25
Uh, well listen, uh, it's been great having you on the show, man, and thank you
45:29
for reviving my interest in said topic.
45:32
Uh, I've got lots of notes, which is always a beautiful thing, and I will
45:35
be talking to our marketing department.
45:39
Well, not tomorrow 'cause it's good Friday.
45:42
And so we are, we are, we're off now until Tuesday, which is a wonderful thing.
45:46
Uh, but next week certainly we'll be talking to them.
45:49
Um, and that, uh, happy Easter to everybody.
45:51
By the way, if you are listening to this and I appreciate it's you by the
45:54
time you listen to this, it, Easter will have gone long gone, but I hope
45:56
you didn't get too fat and chocolate.
45:58
Um, but happy Easter.
46:00
Uh.
46:01
Let's do the saving the best till last.
46:03
So if you've made it this far and you've stayed with us, uh, wonderful
46:06
listeners, then uh, I like to do this thing at the end of the show
46:09
called Saving the Best Till Last.
46:12
And this is where I say to my amazing guests, like, will, will the top tip that
46:18
you know the absolute best of the best of the best of the information that you
46:22
can give us on this whole topic, uh, of influencer marketing For the listeners
46:27
that stayed till the end, the faithful.
46:29
The righteous, the amazing, uh, people that are still here.
46:34
What, what's, um, what's the two minute top tip you'd love to share?
46:38
Top tip, um, is influencers are one of the best tactics for
46:44
e-commerce marketplace growth.
46:47
and the reason behind it.
46:48
So think Amazon, Walmart, target, um.
46:52
All of those marketplaces are search engines, and they're
46:55
more competitive than ever.
46:56
More than 3000 people join Amazon every single
46:58
Mm-hmm.
46:58
Um, and when, those of you who search on Amazon and buy products on
47:03
Amazon, the few of you, um, when you search for something, 75% of people
47:08
don't go past the first page, right?
47:09
You got, I think it's like 45 listings on the first page, right?
47:14
With all these sellers on there, and very limited attention to only a few different
47:20
listings for any given search topic.
47:22
Um, it's very hard to break through.
47:25
You could say the noise, right?
47:27
When you first launch a product you're on maybe page a thousand, right?
47:31
Maybe more depending on what the topic is.
47:34
Why influencers are fantastic for this, and this is my best tip, is that.
47:39
When you first launch on a platform like Amazon, Amazon needs to understand data.
47:44
They have, they call it the Cold Start problem.
47:46
Um, they don't know where to place you.
47:48
It's a risk for them to put you on page one because of your product Sucks.
47:52
gonna lose out on a huge amount of sales.
47:55
It's like their shelf space, right?
47:56
You're just taking up space.
47:58
But if your product's fantastic and they're not putting you
48:01
up there, maybe you could be the best selling product ever.
48:03
And now they're making a huge amount more commission from you.
48:07
And so the only way for Amazon, Amazon tests you when you first launch.
48:12
But the testing takes a long time.
48:14
Now, if you can give Amazon the data it needs to say, Hey,
48:17
this product is fantastic.
48:18
Amazon's gonna push you right up.
48:20
And influencers are a fantastic way to do that.
48:23
By driving external traffic sales that's trusted and high converting.
48:27
It basically gives the Amazon algorithm the data it needs to say, Hey, this
48:31
product deserves to be at the top.
48:33
And we've seen listings that have implemented this strategy like 13 XRO.
48:37
I like went from doing a hundred sales a month.
48:40
To like 1500 sales in like literally a month timeframe.
48:45
and then they, if they were sticky, if they had a good product, once
48:50
they maintained, got to that growth standpoint and started
48:53
actually converting onto organic consumers, those sales didn't stop.
48:56
So it became this like, Hey, I just activated like a hundred influencers.
49:02
Drove up a whole bunch of sales, um, didn't do any more influencer marketing.
49:06
I 13 x by growth, and my sales haven't stopped because now I have
49:09
the visibility within the marketplace.
49:11
I broke through, you know what I mean?
49:12
And I was high converted.
49:14
So that's my last tidbit.
49:16
For those of you who are listening, who are selling on an e-commerce
49:19
marketplace like Amazon or Walmart, or plan to, influencer marketing's
49:23
a fantastic strategy for it.
49:25
Fantastic.
49:27
Well, thank you so much, man.
49:29
Uh, loved every part of the conversation and, um, if you, like I say, go check
49:34
out Stack influence, but, um, it's been an absolute pleasure, my friend.
49:37
Thank you so much.
49:38
My pleasure.
49:39
Thanks for having me on, Matt.
49:40
Well, there you go.
49:41
Ladies and gentlemen.
49:42
Thanks to Will again for coming on the show.
49:44
Oh, I can do this thing Will, where you'll like this.
49:46
Uh, let me watch it.
49:47
Oh no, that's the wrong one.
49:49
Uh, where's, where's it gone?
49:52
Where's it gone?
49:54
Oh, it's gone off my system.
49:55
Oh, no.
49:57
There it is.
49:58
There we go.
49:59
Sorry about, it wasn't even really worth waiting for, was it?
50:02
I just, my system is all kind of messed up, isn't it, at the moment.
50:07
But, um, well, thank you for coming on, man.
50:09
Uh, it's been an absolute tree.
50:10
It really has.
50:12
Uh, but that's it from me.
50:13
That's it from me.
50:14
Thank you so much for joining us.
50:16
Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world.
50:18
I will see you next time.
50:19
Bye for now.