Latest / The Racer on Demand Show / Episode 23 | What's In It For Me?

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Episode 23 | What's In It For Me? · The Racer on Demand Show

• Megan: What outcome can I create for them instead of just, hey, give me ten thousand dollars and I'll put your logo on my car and and I'll get you, you know, more eyeballs on your logo. Welcome back to the Racer on Demand Show. I am Megan and I've got my amazing co-host Amanda with me today. And Amanda Van Den Elzen: Hi. Megan: we have got a fun topic for today's show. So we want to go over what's in it for me. So this is a question that a lot of people ask themselves in motorsports. And you know, they might not say it out loud, but we're always thinking it. So we want to go Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: over that in this episode. It might not be about, you know, how to get sponsors, but we want to talk about kind of more that value exchange that makes motorsports work and the relationships and promises that we have between the racers, to your sponsors, but also to your fans and you know, even the the series that you work with. So let's go. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. And I would honestly say, Megan, you know, this might not be overtly about how to get sponsors, but you and I both know that relationships are how you get sponsors. So building Megan: Yes. Amanda Van Den Elzen: those relationships and getting sponsors are the same thing ultimately. Megan: Yeah. Yeah. Well and sometimes, you know, that's where a lot of racers get it wrong because they're always like, Well, what am I getting out of this? What am I going to receive? Instead of understanding, well, this is how I can help my sponsor or the fans and this is what I can give to them in return. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you know, this what's in it for me or W I I F is how I oftentimes abbreviate that or see it abbreviated. Like I didn't learn this in the racing world. I read I I learned this in the corporate world. You know, when I was working in a large corporation and trying to get my initiatives through and trying to get change management through the organization, that's where I learned about what's in it for me. And and that mindset, being able to bring that back to the motorsports marketing world has really changed how I look at everything that we do in in our sport. So I think it's a really important topic. Megan: Yeah, yeah, well that's interesting. yeah, 'cause I don't have that corporate background like you do. So it's you know, there's so much that does overlap that like you wouldn't even think that it would. But yeah, I think, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: you know, for racers like you know, I think If you're, you know, have that perspective, it might come off as, you know, I'm selfish because I just want this and I want someone to give it to me. But we need to, I guess, kind of reframe that to think, hey, like a successful partnership isn't just about what am I getting, it's also about what am I going to give back to them and how can I yeah, like you said, like just have a relationship, like treat them like another human being. And and Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: understand that, you know, yes, like you need the funding to go racing. You need the parts, the tires, the fuel. but There's also things that that company needs in return from you. And I think racers like we just we struggle to do that because we're just so focused on getting to the next race and competing and trying to win that we forget that we do need to deliver something in return and not wait until the Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: end of the year to follow up with them and ask for a renewal. So so yeah, so just trying to understand like there is a value to provide for someone. in order to invest in you. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. And I think too, what I really take to heart with the what's in it for me question is like when I'm asking what's in it for me, I'm not talking about what's in it for me, the racer, or me, the person trying to sell this partnership or trying to get more fans or whatever I'm trying to do, right? I'm putting myself in the shoes of that other person and I'm asking the question, as a sponsor, what's in it for me? As a fan, what's in it for me? And You know, as a racer, I think hopefully if you've been listening to the last, what, twenty-two episodes, you are already starting to ask the question of what am I delivering to my partner? But are you Megan: Yes. Amanda Van Den Elzen: looking at that through the lens of what's in it for me the racer? Or are you looking at it as what's in it for me the partner? Because oftentimes we find ourselves offering things that we think that the sponsors want instead of putting ourselves into the shoes of the sponsor and thinking about what do they actually want and need and asking the questions to get to the heart of that question of of what do they actually want to. Megan: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. How can you help that company, yeah, accomplish something? And honestly, like we just need to ask right? Instead of like assuming like what you said, like they're probably like, you know, usually they do want to sell something, but maybe they want to get in front of a new type of customer, or maybe they want the content that they can use for their advertising or their promotional Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Megan: material, or maybe they are wanting to find a new dealer or you know connect with a different brand something like that so I think you know there's there's multiple ways to kind of come across you know when you are trying to sell yourself as a racer but But yeah, it's it's more about how can I help the business? What outcome can I create for them instead of just, hey, give me ten thousand dollars and I'll put your logo on my car and and I'll get you, you know, more eyeballs on your logo. And so, so yeah, I think like like you said, hopefully if they've been listening to the show, if not, you can go back and listen to our our previous Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: episodes because it's kind of the theme that we have in most of is that there is a value that as a racer, you need to deliver to your partners. And it is more than just the logo placements. And, you know, sometimes there's deals that happen without ever putting a sticker on the side of a car. And sometimes those deals can be the bigger paying ones, but they might Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Megan: not need that exposure. Right. They might just be that B2B relationship. And so I think we've talked about that on previous episodes. But But yeah, you know, that's something that I think because I think a lot of racers just, you know, they kinda gatekeep that. And so people Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: just they don't know it's possible or they just like completely overlook that because they don't really hear about that as an option. And I think, you know, we're just so used to like as soon as you see a car that has stickers, you know, you know that's a race car. And so we wanna put a bunch of stickers on our cars. Like we want that credibility and we want fans to you know, think we're cool because we've got a race car and we've got a bunch of stickers on the car. But there is so much that happens behind the scenes to, you know, put those stickers on the car and even yeah, even stuff that that doesn't even go on the car. Like, you know, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: I I've seen a lot of racers that just get discounts and because, you know, and they'll put a sticker on their car just 'cause they want to have something on there. They don't want a blank car. And so they'll just put a a sticker on even if it is just a a 10% off discount or something like that, like not even free product. And like I totally get that. And that's like how I started out. Like to be honest, like I would put anybody's sticker. Like if someone just gave me a sticker, like I would just put it on my car because I didn't care. But I didn't realize until later on, like probably a decade into actually racing of like, like this isn't you know actually valuable for this brand or I'm providing too much value for this brand and I need to, you know, I need the more funding for what I'm actually worth, or vice versa. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, like we've we've obviously talked at length about how a sticker on a car really isn't a deliverable for most companies. Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: But, you know, this is really what tears down that whole idea of a tiered approach to like proposals too. Because Megan: Mm. Amanda Van Den Elzen: if you put yourself into the shoes of a partner and you ask, what's in it for me from a really personalized perspective. this of course is coming back from my corporate role as well. When I'm consulting with consulting with a company, I'll ask three really pointed questions to figure out what's in it for me. The first one is what problem are we trying to solve? And I think that this is where racers oftentimes jump way ahead is they just start putting deliverables out there. I can do social media posts. I can do event appearances, you know, I can go out and activate your product at the track. But they're not asking what is the problem that this company actually has before they start building that solution. And so the what's in it for me isn't necessarily saying, okay, I need to come up with a deliverable. It's saying I need to come up with a deliverable that's actually solving the problem of this company. The second question I always ask is how do we know it's a problem? And when I ask that question, I'm looking for a number. So that way I have a measure of success. So I can say, you know, maybe this company is looking for a broader reach on social media. Their their social media just is not reaching their target audience. So, okay, that's the problem they're trying to solve. I have an idea that I can probably do that with social media posts and stuff, right? But if they're measure for that problem is saying, well, they're only reaching two hundred thousand people on every single post and they want to be reaching third question I always ask is what would that look like if it if it was solved, right? So the Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: the the goal on that, so if they say, well I want to be reaching at least four hundred thousand people with every single post and I only have twelve hundred followers and my posts only go five thousand, you know, on reach I might be able to create a deliverable that fits in that social media bucket, but I'm not gonna solve their problem, right? That's a poor match. That's not actually delivering value. But if I looked at a different partner that maybe was also trying to have the same problem solved, they're trying to get more reach, and I look and they're reaching 200 people with every post, and they wanna be reaching at least a thousand people with every post. And my posts, the same posts, are reaching 5,000 people. I have a lot of value to provide to that partner with the exact same deliverable that wouldn't provide value to the first one. You know? So that's Megan: I love that you broke that down. Amanda Van Den Elzen: really powerful. Megan: Yeah. Yeah, that is well yeah, and it's it's key to know of like, okay, how are they going to measure, you know, the ROI of this and and what would it be to be successful for them? 'Cause yeah, sometimes we skip that third step 'cause we're you know We're just so excited to get this sponsor and we're just like, okay, yes, you know, we'll do anything. And over promise, and then you underdeliver, and then then it's so hard to try to renew because then we didn't meet their expectations. So I love that you broke that down. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: And that's such a good example of like, you know, these are questions that we can ask when we're having those conversations and You know, not only does it make the partnership easier in the long run because then you know exactly what your targets are and if it is something that could be achievable for you, but it also just makes you look more professional, like they Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: understand that you're also running a business, like this is a true like business partnership, and it's not just like you know, a donation or where they're like, yeah, you know, I'll put my sticker on your car. Like here's here's ten thousand dollars for that, right? And then like Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Megan: never be able to measure that. And I know it's like everyone, you know, the old days of like, well we've get we get fifty thousand attendees, so that's fifty thousand eyeballs that are gonna see your sticker. And it's like, no, that's not like, you know For us, like and I'm like I'm guilty of this because that's what I used to do like in my sponsorship decks. And so Amanda Van Den Elzen: Same, we did too. Megan: yeah, so I would reach out to NHRA and be like, Okay, what's your attendance number? And it was like the exact like races we'd go to because some of them would be higher, some of them would be lower, and I'd have like a table of that. in my presentation and it's like, okay, this is how many eyeballs we can get for you. But if you ever go to an NHRA race, you'll notice that there's hardly anybody actually in the stands to watch our class run down the track. Because usually Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: when our class is racing, that is when the pro guys are, you know, they're just getting back from the runs that they make. So you can go up to the pits and watch Amanda Van Den Elzen: Hm. Megan: their crews tearing the blower off, changing the clutch pack, you know, just all this action going on in the pits and you can go from trailer to trailer to trailer to trailer and watch every team tear down their cars, get it ready for the next run. But we're on the track. But all the action is right here, right? So maybe we'll actually get 10,000 eyeballs that see our car, right? And so it's it's just not realistic if you're like, hey, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: you know, I'll get 50,000 eyeballs. But like kind of the same thing, like with social media, like you can't promise someone I'll get you 50,000 impressions if your average is 5,000, right? Amanda Van Den Elzen: Right. Yeah. And what what problem are you trying to solve for them, right? Like if you're trying to sell those fifty thousand attendees at your race, but they're trying to move more product in Delaware and you're racing in Arizona, you know what I mean? Like, is that really going to move the needle on the problem they're trying to solve anyway? Megan: Yeah, exactly. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah, I can't think of any kind of racing that happens in Delaware. I'm sure there's plenty, but like I don't know where that came from. Megan: Honestly, I don't I don't know exactly where Delaware is, to be honest. So I need to look at a map. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: Like I know it's up north, but yeah, we don't race up there, so Amanda Van Den Elzen: I would have to look at a map to like be able to find Delaware as well. I know it's over there in like the northeast, but Megan: I hope we don't have any listeners in Delaware 'cause they'll probably be really mad at us. Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah, we don't anymore. We have no more listeners in Delaware. Anyway, anyway, I think what what the point is that I'm trying to make is like sometimes a sticker on a car can be valuable, right? Like we've talked before on prior episodes about, for example, like injury law firms, right? They want a rolling billboard. There are a lot of companies that would need a rolling billboard. And I saw I saw Alex Strailer posted on LinkedIn the other day. And he said basically, like somebody buys a can of an energy drink once a day, but they purchase a battery once every few years. So marketing for an energy drink looks very different because you need to sell a whole bunch of them every single day versus a battery is a bigger purchase, but it only happens, you know, once in a while, once every couple of years. So that company needs to stay top of mind. until that person needs that product. I think it said something, maybe this was a different post that I saw that said something along the lines of like 95% of the people that you reach with your marketing are not in a position to purchase your product right now. But that doesn't mean that marketing isn't working, right? So like stickers are important that being in front of people over and over again in creative ways can be really important to the right brands, but it can also be completely useless and return no value to other brands too. So that's where that what's in it for me comes in so importantly. Megan: Yeah. Yeah. Well I guess like so a great example of that would be Optima batteries 'cause I see that they like they go big with the racers that they sponsor and like their standards are very high. So like like Christopher Pulvordi, if I said his name right, yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: So like I'm thinking of him and like like he's a Red Bull athlete, so he is doing so much stuff outside of racing and like Optima can you know, hop on that Red Bull train and get that extra, you know, exposure and be able to kind of see people think of like, okay, if I think of Christopher Povordi, I'm gonna think of Red Bull, but then I'm gonna think of Optima. And Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: yeah, yeah, I mean that's so true. I love that post. I ha I didn't see that on LinkedIn, so I'll have to go and see that that Alex did. But yeah, that's so true Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: is I mean, yeah, energy drinks. like Red Bull or Monster or Celsius or Alani. I don't know. That's like what all the girls drink. Like my sister drinks that. And I think they drink it like more than once a day, too. And yeah, that's yeah. For sure. But Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: yeah, I I yeah, it totally makes sense of something that is like a battery brand. Like they need to do their marketing completely different to be able to have someone think, shoot, my car battery just died because I left my light on overnight. What brand am I gonna go to? And they that, you know, is hopefully yeah, the first one that comes to their mind. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes, exactly. And I mean, like and a battery happens once every couple of years, right? Tires happen once every couple of years. Maybe home insurance, you revisit your quote every couple of years, right? It's not just the things that you need for your car either. These non-endemic brands are also competing for that same space in everybody's attention of when they need this, they want you to think of them and and I think that post was about Optima batteries, so it's funny that you brought that up. Megan: okay. Yeah. Well, yeah, I know. Is it Cam? I think Cam is who Alex knows at Optima. So I think, yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: I think so, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you know, we've talked a lot about what's in it for me for the businesses that we want to partner with. But I want to flip the script a little bit because that's hopefully something that people have been thinking about as they've been learning about what partners actually want and need and why they partner with racers. But what about fans? Why do fans follow specific racers, what builds loyalty there and what's in it for the fans? Megan: Yeah, yes, good question. Cause yeah, they they don't need the logos on the car, right? Or they d they don't need those B2B Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: relationships. I think the biggest things that the fan wants is the entertainment. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: Yeah. Or also the community of like being around so many other race fans as well and like just sharing that passion together, like even though they're people you've never met before, right? But it's just Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: what if you're sitting in, you know, a a stand that's full of people and you know, maybe you're all cheering for the same team or the same racer. Maybe, you know, there's different sections or, you know, people are wearing different shirts and jerseys and all that type of stuff. so Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: you kinda you can kind of maybe build that rivalry and just yeah, I think I think it's the entertainment in the community. What do you think? Amanda Van Den Elzen: I love that. And okay, I was gonna answer very differently, but Megan: Okay. Amanda Van Den Elzen: as you're talking, my god, this is probably the inner like psychology nerd in me coming out. Have you ever heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs? Megan: Yes. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Okay, so for our listeners that have not have have no idea what I'm talking about, they're like Maslow what? so Maslow Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: was I think he was a Russian scientist, like a psychologist. And he basically built this pyramid saying that in order for somebody to feel safe or fulfilled or like a whole person, a whole ass person, they need certain things before they can focus on the next one. So like at the very bottom is like physical security things like Food, water, shelter, right? And before you can move up to the next tier, you have to have food, water, shelter in order to be able to focus on things above that. And I'm gonna pull this up because otherwise I'm gonna butcher what is on here, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Megan: Yeah, isn't it 'cause isn't it four levels? Amanda Van Den Elzen: Five five levels. Fuck if I can remember what's on them, but okay, so yeah. So like you've got physiological needs down at the bottom. Like I need food, water, heat, right? then Megan: Yes, Amanda Van Den Elzen: we have to be able to feel safe. So we need to be able to make sure that we are not experiencing pain in the immediate future, right? So but then after that we need Social needs for love and belonging. And that is what I think you're getting at here is that sense of belonging, right? So nobody is gonna be a race fan if they don't feel physiologically safe or like physically safe. but I think that part of what drives us as humans before we can actually feel good about ourselves and good about like that complex. Completeness as a human, we need to feel a sense of belonging. And to align with somebody else to have that social interaction based off of a belief system, it fills the same niche as it does like religion, right? Or like a physical community, like being part of your community at home or like volunteer work, right? Being a race fan in our own cycle. Psychological little bubble is the same thing. It fills that same need. So I love that you brought up kind of that community side of it. Cause I think that is really important. That being said, the entertainment factor is huge. And I would even go maybe like a subsection further and say that people don't just want to be entertained, but they want to be educated a lot of the time. And if we can If we can educate people about something they can't figure out elsewhere, about us, about our racing, about our teams, about what's going on in our daily lives, that in itself becomes entertaining because that's something that they can't get, that information elsewhere. Megan: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's so true. Yeah, what so that makes me think of like like the F1 documentary, like Drive to Survive, like that built so many new F one fans, like including myself. Cause honestly, I Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: had never watched F one before that, like never showed any interest in it. until I saw the documentary and I was like, my gosh, like that is that's so cool. And there was a lot of education in that and it's like it's interesting to be like, they have different tires, you know, like this is their wet tire and then this is their dry tire. And but like their their compound changes like between races and stuff. And like there's so much more to motorsports that like I had n no idea like ever existed. And I think people got like so deep involved in it. And Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: Like they they just loved like all the behind the scenes access that you could get with the the documentary and I think that's why like now we have F one in the US because people were like became so invested in it. yeah, like and also for us, like education is a one of our like content pillars because anytime we do like more of a technical video, it always outperforms like our best videos that are like, you know, race recaps or like a cool GoPro video. And I think, yeah, just like sharing that knowledge with people because I mean for us, like not everyone has a dragster, right? And so it and it's Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: in the ones that even people that do have it, like, it they're so, you know, temperamental. Like you can't just throw the same tune up into every single one. Like you've got to learn how to adjust them and then that's where with my dad's experience, I mean he's he's almost fifty years in and running dragsters, which to me is insane. Because like Adam and I were talking about that this weekend, we're like like it's hard for someone to have that much passion or it's hard to imagine someone having that much passion that they want to spend fifty years doing the exact same thing over Amanda Van Den Elzen: He Megan: and over and over, like every single weekend, like just to become Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah, it's Megan: become the best at it and like I don't know, that's just crazy to me. But yeah, like it yeah, people just wanna learn and they like I think, you know, as humans, we are like just genuinely curious and we want to you know, we like to share information too, right? I mean that's why Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: we have websites and social media. Like we just we want to share, right? Amanda Van Den Elzen: One hundred percent agree. Yeah. And I think too, like what you're describing of people wanting to learn, you know, people having this kind of innate curiosity about how other people live or why they do the things they do, those questions are what become hooks in our social media. And if we can identify those gaps, and again, I'm gonna fall back on The what problem are we trying to solve? It doesn't just apply for businesses, right? We can think about that in the terms of our fans too. What problem are we trying to solve? Well, our fans have all these questions. Those are the problems. And if we can kind of step outside of our own, I don't know, we're oftentimes like so close to what we do that we don't have the questions. So we don't know what those questions are. But if we can step back and say, Well, as somebody who doesn't know about this or doesn't deal with this every day, what are some questions that I might have or we can ask people, you know, what questions do you have? Or and this does not do well on social media, I will say. In general, if you ask what kind of content do you want to see, you're probably not gonna get very good answers. But If you are at the racetrack and you start logging, what questions are you getting about your car or your racing or your program or who you are? You know, write those down, turn them into social media because that problem, that gap that you're trying to fill is perfect content. It is going to entertain, it's gonna educate, and it's going to hook people that are genuinely interested in the thing that you do. Megan: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Thankfully we've so we've done like this Ask Randy segment. I think it's been five years that I've been doing it. And it started off as just like, you know, like just totally randomly. Hey, you know, we keep getting this same question that people ask us 'cause our Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: our class is a little confusing. Like it's called Top Alcohol Dragster, but we run nitro. And so everyone's always like, Well, why isn't it called top nitro? You know, like why is why is Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: it called a different fuel? And why are there different setups that people can run? And so there is just there's just that, you know, we always get asked that question. And so this was also when I took a step back from driving and it was like on like honestly, like we just need more content to post. And I hadn't really shared much about my dad because it was more about you know myself and my racing journey and and me you know, chasing the championships and all that stuff. And so then when I when Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: I stopped doing that, then that's kind of when like I turned to my dad, it was like, okay, it's your turn. Like you need to be on camera now. And so I remember like some of the first videos I do it, 'cause this was also before we had like good iPhone micr like microphones and stuff. So I'd use like a real camera and I'd had a a a wired Mike like on his shirt and like it was just so funny. but now like the quality is so much better. but also I think like we've made it such a a pattern in our content. So like every Monday is Ask Randy Monday. And so thankfully now, like we're at the point to where P like as soon as we post a video, then that then leads to people asking deeper questions about that topic. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: And so then that like I have a running list of like, okay, here's all the questions that people are asking us. Some of them are repeated questions. So we definitely need to make a t a video about that topic. And so that really helps, you know, me out on the content side. And now they're super easy to get because it's like I've got a wireless mic, I can just use my iPhone. very minimal editing with it, you know, right? I just use the Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: edits app. All I do is adjust the the coloring and take out the pauses and add a caption. That's all I do. Like super easy. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Megan: and so we're able to like bang out a lot of those. But also it's funny because like I don't really go to any of the drag races anymore, but he'll he always says like like it happens at least once a race. Someone will come up to him And be like, my gosh, Randy, I love your videos. Like they've I've learned so much from you. Like, thank you for doing them. And my dad's not on social media. So he's like, I don't know what you're talking about, but thanks. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Ha ha ha. Megan: But but yeah, like that, that's just but yeah, I mean it took a while to get to that point to where, yeah, like people Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: are are in our DMs, you know, not it's and it's not an everyday thing, but at least once a week we're getting a new question. come in and so we're able to continue to grow that. But it took five years to get to that point, right? And and to get to Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: that where he can now be known for that. but before that, yeah, it was just completely random and not scheduled. And it was more more of like an off season thing that we would do. but now it's it's at the point where it could be something valuable to our partners because we can now go deeper about you know, our fuel pumps because we we get some questions about fuel pumps. And Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: so I can go to Aeromotive and be like, hey, we wanna do a three part ask Randy segment about our fuel pumps because they can pump I don't know the exact number. I think it's like five gallons a second or something like that. I don't remember the exact conversion Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: or what the the number is. I need to do that. I need to Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: yeah, I need to brush up on that. But but yeah so I can go to them now and be like, hey here here's something that is valuable to our audience. Like they are invested in this. They want to learn more about the what product we use. And so that's kind of now more my goal with it is I want to then use this as like a technical thing that is gonna help out the fans so they're learning, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: but then also can we use this for our sponsor and you know, at the very least just get a free product out of it so we can do the video and then prove that we use it on the car, you know, and kinda Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: see if it goes from there. Amanda Van Den Elzen: You know, as you're talking about this, I'm thinking about the different types of content. I know we've talked before about I follow Ava from Personal Brand Launch, and she talks about the different kinds of content. And I think what you've done is you've gone from educational to authority building, right? Like your content isn't just providing education, it's building trust in you guys as the experts in that space. And that's when that starts to become valuable to your partners. They also, you know, look at I shouldn't say they, Ava also talks about storytelling, I think is another big one that racers can capitalize on. And I think that, Megan: For sure. Amanda Van Den Elzen: you know, if we just look at this as purely educational, like it would become a very technical space. We're only going to be attracting A really small demographic. Not every race fan wants to know the technical ins and outs of our vehicles or our series or whatever. But a lot of them do. Some of them do. But we can educate in ways that are not technical to. We can also be talking about this is what happened in an educational, engaging way that's telling our story. Or we can be building authority, like you've talked about through education. What do you want to be an authority in? Like in in your case, obviously your dad is a great authority in the technical space because he's been doing this for so long. But like you and I, Megan, right? Like the stuff that we're putting out there is building us as an authority in a non-technical space. This is very much like more of an art than a science, right? we're talking about more of like the social space and relationship building and the business side of the world, right? You can be an authority in anything that you choose. I just would caution that you're not just trying to be like an authority because you're a race car driver, right? Because everybody that drives a race car is trying to do the same thing. So what makes you different? that differentiation is important. Megan: Yeah, yeah. Well and that's where, you know, we always talk about like to build your personal brand and like know yeah, what what are your values? Like what can be the things that do separate you from the rest and you know what Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: what makes Chris Vanden Elsin different than Wyatt Miller, you know, right? Like you're both race Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: car drivers in the same class, but two completely different people, different backgrounds. And that's what makes you interesting. And that's where, yeah, like sharing your story, you know, doing a post of like, Hey, this is how I got started racing, or these are these are my goals. And so this is what I'm checking off to to get to that next step and sh you know being vulnerable with it and sharing the behind the scenes is that's how you are gonna also yeah like build your fan base and like you said like the technical stuff that is a very narrow demographic because that and that's also more for other racers too, right? Like they Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Megan: they might be more part time or more just racing as a hobby So they need that technical information to, you know, improve their program and get a setup right versus where, you know, a general fan, like they're they're just curious because they just you know, they're just a diehard fan. So, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Megan: but but yeah, that is a a lot more narrower scope. So as a racer, like you will you do need to build your brand. And it's not always about the follower count, right? And we talked about I think the last couple episodes of like follower count really doesn't matter that much anymore. And Amanda Van Den Elzen: No. Megan: so it but yeah, you want to try to reach as many people as you can and make an impression on them because then that is what is going to bring them back to you. And then ultimately the partners and the sponsors that you have because you know like like with Optima Battery, we want them to go and and choose that brand because they partnered with us and we, you know, we have the same values and and beliefs and you know how we work together. And that's how that's where it's yeah, you know this big thing Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: diagram and how we want it to be all in the middle. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Okay. A couple of things that I thought of while you were talking. First off, is that while we're introducing ourselves and our values and our brand, like we have to still be asking what's in it for me for our fans. Because if we just post out there like I'm Amanda Vanden Elsen and I stand for the growth of motorsports, people are gonna be like, I don't really care. Like that that is great for you. but I'm not gonna watch the rest of this video, right? Megan: Yeah, true. Amanda Van Den Elzen: So we have to say like what's in it for me from the fan standpoint. And so like to be overt and say these are my values is almost never gonna work. But if you can show people that in an engaging way that keeps their attention and actually provides value to them. Then that looks totally different. So instead of saying I'm Amanda Vandenelson and I believe in the growth of motorsports, like that's my value. Instead, we're putting out content like this that is providing value that then results in the growth of motorsports, right? And I think that that is a really difficult mindset shift. We have to be thinking about who is our target audience and what are they trying to do with the information that I give them. And so you had mentioned A lot of our audience are other racers. And that brought up something. So fun fact, Am Zoyle came on board to partner with our team for the rest of the year and to Megan: Awesome. Amanda Van Den Elzen: support our chili cook-off at Crandon, which is super exciting. And Megan: Hey awesome. Amanda Van Den Elzen: it's a really low lift for both teams for the end of this year. We're gonna work on maybe something for 27 and beyond. But this is kind of like trial just trying to get stuff out there without there being a budget really for it because we're so late in the year, but it's finally like finally coming together. and both of us recognize that this is gonna be a a low lift, right? So that being said, we're talking about doing some content and it's gonna be just a couple of pieces of content for Amzoil for the rest of the year. But in talking to Sarah, our previous guest, about like what are they trying to do, what kind of things do they have on their marketing horizon. one of the things that came up was a preferred racer program. And the preferred racer program is obviously geared towards racers. And the messaging for us promoting that is going to be geared towards racers. And I said, hold on just a second. I said, our target audience on our Facebook, on our Instagram, on our YouTube shorts is not racers. We're trying to attract fans that are not racers themselves. So I don't think it's gonna work for us to post this. Because our fan base is gonna scroll past it because it's not relevant to them. So what if instead we do some user-generated content, we'll record the content, but guess who does have a target audience of racers? Amzoil does, right? They can still tag us, they can still affiliate their brand with our brand and get that authority that we've built in the space. Because of course, you know, like we do have a really strong rapport with the racers in our sport. But they're not the people we're trying to attract on our social media. So, you know, being able to say, like, who is my target audience radically changes the content that you're putting out to. Because you want to inform racers about the technical aspects because they're super engaged with your race team, right? We're trying to grow outside of the racers that are following us and get a completely different fan base. And that's not gonna work if we keep. putting out things that are only important to racers. So before we can solve a problem, we need to know who we're talking to to know what problems they're actually trying to solve. Megan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's so good. Well, good for you for like recognizing that and then yeah, like not just being like, Okay, yes, you know, we'll we'll do anything as long as you sponsor us because I I know like that's again, because I've been there, I've done that, like so I think Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Megan: that's where like other races kind of fall into that trap too. So that's awesome that you're able to be like, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: you know, hold up, like, yes, we can work together, but there's another way we can do it. It this way Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Megan: is better to help them out and then help you out. Amanda Van Den Elzen: And there's like there's a couple of pieces of content that, you know, are solving different problems for Amzoil, right? Some of it is they do have certain promotions that are coming up. So they want to be able to push a specific product. Well, guess what? Our our target audience buys product. It's not just racers that are buying product, right? So okay, those are the posts we'll put here. And the ones that are racer focused, we're gonna just give you the content you can post and then tag us. You know, it's really. a matter of just deciding like who is going to be watching this and why. What information are they going to be doing with it after the fact? And and I think that that's really a step back that should be taken before you offer any deliverable to a partner. but also before you post anything online, you should be asking, who am I talking to? What are they going to do with this information? Why would they care what's in it for me? Right. Megan: Mm-hmm. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mic drop. I already dropped my mic before we recorded, but Megan: Yeah. You did. Yeah. Yeah, that's I love that. That's so true. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: Like just being strategic with it and like thinking long term and like yeah, like what is the actual purpose behind this? And so I'm kind of at like a point now with my brand, which I feel like I have been for the past five years or so, where it's like I need to I need to, you know, maybe reposition and kind of yeah, like be more strategic with the content that I'm posting just on my Megan Meyer racing pages because it's been such a mix of sometimes I am talking just to fans and then sometimes I'm talking to the racers, like like more of the like the sponsorship tips and Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: you know, the the using auto influencer, like that stuff that just applies to racers and doesn't apply to fans. But then I know Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: I know that, you know, like my Facebook specifically, that's probably ninety percent fans. And so I don't need to be posting that content, you know, over onto Facebook because it's not gonna be relevant and it's gonna fall flat and it's it's just gonna be dead over there 'cause Fans don't need to know what autofluencer is or what are the Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Megan: best best marketing tips, right? They they want to s see more of like what are we doing in the race shop today, or you know, what's when's our next race or something like that. So I'm kind of at like, I'm still in this like this like limbo mode, I guess, of like, okay, how can I be more strategic with my content and know of like Okay, like over on Instagram, it is more like racers, so I can post more of that stuff there, but I know I can't do it over on Facebook. But then the then it's like, okay, so then I need to have a separate pa plan for that because I want to still be able to reach those fans like what you said. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Megan: but yeah, like there there is just a lot to think about and it's not just like, you know, if it is something that you are taking seriously, like like the racers that are listening, like if you want to be more strategic in order to get those bigger sponsorship programs, like you've gotta take that step back and think about it and like who is the target customer that you're trying to reach? And is this the best platform? Like just because you made a reel doesn't mean you have to post that reel on every platform that you're on. Like, I Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: mean, yeah, that's cool to kind of see an overall number of views and engagement that it can get. But sometimes Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Megan: it is better to just, you know, be on one platform. Or like you said, like just be a user generated content to where like you can make the content, but then you don't post it on to your feed and you give it to the brand and they can post it or they can use it as an ad that they want to run for a thirty days or whatever. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: and So yeah, I'm always like I've gotta always think about that. Like just because I made a real doesn't mean I gotta post it everywhere. Like I need to think more about where I'm posting it and who I want it to reach and what is the action I want them to take with it. And so it's it's just something I'm constantly thinking about. Amanda Van Den Elzen: And let's think about too, like the way that the algorithms distribute content too. If you are consistently not even consistently, if you post something that your audience on that platform does not interact with, it is not going to distribute your information that you're trying to get out to those people again. Right. Like if I post something about foraging on my race page, right? And Megan, you're just not into that. That is not your thing. So you watch the first 0.2 Megan: my god. Amanda Van Den Elzen: seconds and you scroll past it. Well, next when I post again about my racing stuff that Megan, you're actually interested in and you want to hear more about, well, it's not going to show it to you because you didn't engage with my content because it wasn't relevant to you the last time. So this is something that if you don't get it right, If you've heard the terms shadow banned, like this is what gets you shadow banned is by being inconsistent with who you're trying to reach and the relevance to them. because it's it's just gonna hide your stuff from those people. They won't even see the stuff that actually is good for them. Megan: Yeah. Yeah, I know. That's like good and bad thing about social media now, right? Because 15 years ago you could get away with that. Like it could be more of a wide variety of what you're doing. Like it could be more that, like, you know, personal diary style. But now Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: I heard Gary V say that like it's not social media anymore, it's interest media now. And so you have to Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Megan: be more specific about the what topics you're talking about. And it has to be that interest that people want to see. And so I I'm gonna do another experiment and I'm gonna try out the trial reels because I've honestly never used Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: trial reels yet on Instagram. But I am planning on like yeah, shifting my content and on Instagram I'm thinking like for quarter four, like to making it like kind of going back to the like motorsports marketing tips stuff. And so because I know like I do have more racers that follow me there on Instagram. And so I'm thinking to do like 30 days, but Only posting it on the trial reels and see Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: how that does before I post it like straight to my feed. And I think I think that's the point of trial reels is to like try out this new style or this new interest or different type of editing. but yeah, so I'm excited. I'm kind of like, I have no idea what's gonna happen. Like, and I guess if it like doesn't do well then I don't have to do it anymore. Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. I'm so curious how that's going to go. I've I've toyed around with the idea of trial reels before, but I I guess I've never really come up with a use case where I thought it was going to be really helpful. So I'm so curious on how that's gonna go for you. Megan: Yeah, same. Same. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause it's just I mean, this year, like I'll be on like this year we have really struggled in the racing department and you know, planned on doing at least five IHRA races. I got one in and then the series died. So I was planning, you know, a lot of sponsorship stuff, a lot of content around that, doing some displays and all that type of stuff. So that's all off the table. And then this side-by-side stuff. We've just struggled with like parts breaking. Like there's always something wrong with the car, like every race. But also our races are very spread out too. Like it is just once a month, which is nice, but it's like it'll be at like the beginning of the month and then the next one's not till the end. of the following months. So you feel like you have two months in between. And Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: so it's like there's just so much time. And so like with content, why it's just hard for me to be consistent without doing the same like GoPro videos, you know, like every single time because I'm just I'm not at a racetrack as much. And so that's where I'm at like this point to where I think I need to pivot again. And yeah, also like I think I'm going to I want to know your opinion on this. So I think I'm going to do 'cause like I kind of started one like called the Rock Creek Racing because that was Rock Creek is the name of like our family farm and because that's the name of the farm that my dad grew up on. And then like he bought a farm last year and he's like, Well, there's a creek and it has rocks, so we can call it Rock Creek. Amanda Van Den Elzen: huh. I'm following. Megan: So yeah. And so then I was like, well, since like, you know, the side by side, like off-road stuff, like that's our family thing. Like I think we sh cause and also like Lingner is such a hard name to say and like it's just I don't want to confuse people. I don't know. Like everyone Amanda Van Den Elzen: I don't think it's that hard. It's better than Van Denelson, so Megan: Well, I don't know. Yeah, people always forget that like second in in there. and so I was like, you know, Rock Creek is just like that's more memorable. And so I was like, well we'll just name it Rock Creek Racing. And so, but it's just been like completely rein-like I just have only collab tagged like any time I do like a side-by-side post on my page, I'll just collab that one. So anyways, I'm thinking to do more of like our family, like away from racing, more family life, more personal stuff, like like working out, like gardening, like working on the farm, like the building the house down there, and which like is all stuff I haven't really shared much of on Megan Meyer Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: page because I've I've kind of been like, I don't think people would like, I don't think this is interesting to my fans or to the other racers. But I'm thinking, well, I could s do this other page that is more family lifestyle and that can attract a completely different audience. And maybe it is more moms or you know, more people that are into home setting and then introduce racing to them through that, but the majority of then the racing stuff would stay like on the Megan Meyer page. if that makes sense. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. I I think I see racers doing this well and I see racers doing this poorly. And I think the difference is like knowing why you're splitting it. So I'll see racers that have a team page and a personal page. Or, Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: you know, just like I I don't know. They'll split them up. Typically it's like, this is my Racing team, and this is my personal page. And we are guilty of this. This is why I am 100% like putting this out here very vulnerably and saying that like we have done this wrong. you have to have a different target audience for those two different pages, and you have to understand that you are now two creators. You are not the same person on both of those pages, and you can't. really be the same person. Otherwise you're gonna be like, well I made this video, which one do I put it on? It could fit on either, blah, blah, blah, you know? And if you can't define what kind of content goes where and why, then this isn't gonna work. and and we did that with the VDE racing page. The VDE racing page was put together to be kind of this place where our family team could put all of what's happening as a team, right? Well, Chris is the primary racer on our team. Dave and I now both race once a year. Andy, his brother, doesn't race at all and hasn't for many years. So now it's basically the Chris show, which is good. That's what we want. But where do we put content now? Because does it go on VDE racing or does it go on Chris's page? Well, guess what? The people who wanted to see what we did as a family are the exact same people who want to see what Chris does as an individual. And we have the same audience duplicated on both pages. The same audience has the same goals. This isn't working. Right. So I think I think that is when you split, is when you know you have two very different types of content that are just not gonna mesh. But I would caution you to say that then you have twice as much content to create, twice Megan: Right. Amanda Van Den Elzen: as much work behind it. And you have to task switch between knowing your two different audiences without ever muddying the waters between the two. So, you know, there might be moments when you collaborate between the two, but you know, I would I would ask you the question, is Megan the racer a different creator than Megan the homesteader, gardener, house builder, you know, the the farm? Is farm Megan different than race car Megan enough? Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Yes. The purple ones. is that Megan different enough that the audience at the other page wouldn't want to also know about that Megan? Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: You know? Megan: I think so. I think I know, that's why like I don't want it to become two full-time jobs, right? So Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Megan: that one is just gonna be completely like maybe just one or two times a week posting on there and then seeing what happens. But I don't know, I feel like when I am posting more like mom stuff on my page and like family stuff that we do, that's Yeah, it doesn't do it doesn't perform as well. So just looking Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: at like those analytics and So yeah, I don't know. We'll see. I'm gonna try Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: out the trial reels. I'm gonna see what happens. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: Test it out. Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Okay, so fun fact. I have like six Instagram accounts, I'm pretty sure, at least. Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: And I, okay, I admittedly I am not a public like facing race car driver. Like I don't have the fan base that like you or Chris does, right? Because I'm not out there as a public facing figure in racing. But I have An Instagram account that I opened about foraging. I have one that I opened about crafting. I have one that I have for race or on demand. I have one that is like our race team, right? I have access to that one. there are so many. I have so many. And each of them has a very distinctly like different flavor. Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: But what I found was in like going to all these different places. I was diluting my own personal account and I was stripping of it, stripping it of all of my personality and all of the things that differentiate me as me. So I stopped using almost all of them and I post just about everything on my personal account now. and again, like my goals as a creator are not the same as like yours or what Chris's would be. But I do think that having an evolution as a person is different than having a different target audience too. Like just because Chris went from drifting to off-road didn't mean he needed a new account. It just meant that like the people who were invested in his journey were going on a new journey with him. You know? And I think Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: I think that's something that's important to like keep in mind too. Like The the fans who are following you are following you because you are you, not because you raced a thing, you know? Megan: Yeah. Yeah, no that's true. That's true. I need to ask myself what's in it for me. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Yes, you do. What is your goal, right? Like what are you trying to achieve with it? Do you want more followers? Are you just trying to find an outlet to like post creatively about these things? Or, you know, what is it? Megan: Yeah, good question. I haven't thought that too deep about it. Amanda Van Den Elzen: And Megan, what problem are you trying to solve? You don't have to answer that, but but those are the kinds of questions Megan: Yeah. yeah. Well, okay s Amanda Van Den Elzen: we should be asking, right? Megan: yeah, yeah. No, I mean honestly I think the problem is I see my performance tank when I do more like what I call lifestyle posts. And so Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: that's where I'm thinking, okay, if I take that off, but then I could put that on a more dedicated page, then that could help my overall performance, you know, hopefully then I could post, you know, stuff that would be more interest to the people that are already on the Megan Meyer page. But then Amanda Van Den Elzen: Now you have you Megan: Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: have your own personal page too, right? Like the Megan Meyer Lingner, like more personal, right? Megan: on like on I do yeah, Facebook. I don't on Instagram. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Just Facebook. okay, okay. Megan: Yeah. Yeah, I Amanda Van Den Elzen: Okay. Megan: only have one Instagram. I did make another Instagram account, but I haven't used that one in like five years. And that was more that Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: was just like when I started doing like the courses and coaching. That was the beginning of that. And then I was trying to attract completely wrong audience with that. And so that's when I was like I just shut that one down. Like I'll still log into Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: it every now and then 'cause there's like like only certain pages that I follow with that account because that's like more of that target market or like that demographic. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: And so every now and then I'll be like, I wonder what this person's up to. And I don't okay, so I don't know if this is weird. I don't wanna look them up on my like Megan Meyer page because then I don't want my algorithm to change. So it's like I'll Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Megan: log into this account because that's already part of that algorithm there. So if that's that's the only reason why like I've kept it. but yeah I haven't Amanda Van Den Elzen: Ha ha. Megan: posted on there since like 2020. but yeah so I just have Megan Meyer racing on Instagram and then I have the Randy Meyer Racing, which that's completely separate. And then Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: and then last year was when I created the like rock Creek racing, which that's the one I think I don't want that to be like just another racing page. Like I'm thinking that one to be just our whole family too. Because also like some people do want to see what Henry's doing. And like Adam doesn't post on his personal Instagram. If he does, it's like a really bad picture of me for my birthday post. And like that's it. Like he you know, he finds the most unflattering Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yes. Megan: picture to put. And I don't want anybody Amanda Van Den Elzen: Always. Megan: to see that. So so that's why I'm thinking that could be more of like not just, hey, this is what Megan's up to, but on a different page, but more of here's what Megan, Adam, and Henry are all doing. So but I'm thinking that Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Yeah. Megan: yeah, it would be a different audience in it, cause it it would be more family stuff and could be more, yeah, like. like Adam's really big into hunting. Like it's about to be hunting season and that's like all he's cared about now. And so we could attract more like an outdoors audience through there. more, you know, like I said, like it could be more moms that follow us, on that page. So that's kinda what Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: I Amanda Van Den Elzen: Sense. It makes perfect sense. I think as long as you're doing it with intention and like an understanding of who you're attracting and why you're doing it and what your goals are. Like Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: I think those are the pieces that people tend to miss as they miss that foundational of like, why? Why would this be separate? And what would I post there? So Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: we've talked a lot about like what our partners would want, like what what's in it for our partners, about what's in it for our fans. Before we wrap up, I wonder, should we talk a little bit about like partnerships with series? Like what builds value for a series or for your sport as a whole? Megan: Yeah, yeah, I think that's important too, because I mean if there if there's no series, then we of racers have nowhere to race, right? But also if we're not helping out our series, then they're not going to be around to be able to give us a place to race. So Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. And I think like the goals of the series sometimes are not the same as the goals of the racers. And a lot of times that is what ends up pointing racers and series against each other instead of us kind of all rowing in the same direction, trying to get the same things, which is growth across the board, right? Like we need our series to be successful in order to get us payouts and bring partners into our sports and bring in fans that we wouldn't be able to reach otherwise. But like they're trying to do completely different things than we are. Like they they're running a business too. And it's not a business that's founded on like our seat time or, you know, our payouts necessarily. Right. So, you know what what is it what is in it for them? To have us there, why why do race series bring racers in? Why do they bring partners in? Where does that all tie into their goals? Megan: Mm. Yeah. Well, I think to kinda like go back to Sarah and like Amzoyle, what she had mention like she l she does like to partner with the series because yeah, like their audience is the racers. And that Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Megan: is the best place for them to be able to reach a large majority of racers and Yeah, to like to be known as like the series sponsor and be able to reach all the competitors in there. yeah, I think, you know, for us, obviously like we just want a place to race, a place to promote, but Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: I think racers like, you know, and I kind of see this on Facebook where people will complain because maybe entry fees increased or s a race got dropped or something and it's just like quick to blame the series and like point fingers. But yeah, there's probably like another decision behind that of like, hey, you know, we we couldn't bring in another sponsor. So we did have to increase the entry fees or the tickets that the fans have to pay for. because Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: we need that funding to continue the the series, right? And so I think sometimes we forget of like, yeah, they are they are also running a business, like we need to help them out. And you know, like for us, like drag racing side, I don't think entry fees are that expensive, like, compared to what our other costs are to go race. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm. Megan: and honestly, like insurance is just as much as like the entry fee we have to pay for. So I don't know like what the entry fees are for champ. but I don't I feel like it's still like reasonable and I mean, yeah, like they did cut our prize money, so it's actually like they cut it in half. So we're Amanda Van Den Elzen: Oof. Megan: definitely not racing for the prize money. Like it's not it's so minimal now that like it's not gonna like make a difference. Like we're there because we love to race and because you know, for us, like the way how my dad runs the program is he's he's doing a rental car business. So we're running it as a business to provide a service for people to race and you know, of course to help out our sponsors and all that, but we're not there for the money. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I don't think a lot of racers are there for the money unless you're at like the pinnacle of motorsports. Megan: Right. Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. And I think too, like, as we're talking about, you know, what's in it for a series, like a a series doesn't make money probably the way that people think they do, right? Megan: Yeah, I don't think so. Amanda Van Den Elzen: When we're talking about entry fees, most racing, the entry fees cover operational costs. If if the series takes money out of the the entry fees, it covers the operational costs of staffing, coordination. marketing, right? Those kinds of behind the scenes overhead. And then it goes back into payouts most of the time. You know, I I know that's how it works in our series is the bulk of our entry fee becomes a payout. Some of it goes to the operational like administration expenses. But there's not a ton of money in it for the series in entry fee costs. And then when you look at, you know, how are they making money? Well depends on the series. Like I I looked up the high limits series, because they're doing very well, right? That's something that comes in as a big show. the racers make good money, the series makes good money, the tracks make good money. I I saw that as kind of an optimal way for that trifecta to work. but the High Limit series is going in and they're charging probably close to six figures per night of show to their tracks. And then they take a cut of the admission as well. So that's a significant way for them to make money, but they're making most of their money through the sponsorships that they get for being the ones who are promoting this event and and bringing these racers to this track, right? So when we look at it, a series ultimately is an event coordinator. That's really all they're doing. Because a track exists and racers exist to race at that track, regardless of a series. But a a series is what comes in and creates the infrastructure needed to coordinate the insurance, the racers, the marketing, everything that needs to come together to make that event a success. So they're the ones that are getting the fans there. although I would say that's probably a shared effort as well. So, like, what is in it for? A series to work with the racers, well, they need the racers to be there and to put on a great show, right? That's what they're selling to the tracks and to the fans that they're bringing in. Because their revenue comes from the tracks and the fans. So what problem are they trying to solve? More money from those tracks and from those fans. So the bigger show they can give, the more fans they can attract, the more entertaining they can be. That's where that value comes in for. For all of those pieces. And then of course the sponsorship side of it, what what are they doing to build value for their partners? And again, we've like we've talked, right? That depends on the partner and what their goal is. So I think that it really does vary by series, like how you as a racer can provide value and how much value you should be responsible for. But a lot of the things that that you can do to create value for your series, also create value for your own program that you can then sell to sponsors and attract fans yourself to. Megan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well that brings like that makes me think of and I know we've talked about this on the show before, but like being able to help them promote like the events that they have coming up. And like one thing that we would do like in the beginning of my like Career is we would ask the track like for free tickets, and then we would go do a display for them and be like, Hey, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: give me 10 free tickets, we'll go do an open house or you know, this promotional event, we'll have the race car on display and we'll hand out these tickets. Because you know, if we if we give a family you know free tickets, well, they're more likely to bring a friend or bring another family member with them. So hopefully it pays. For that free ticket, right? And then hopefully, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Right. Megan: you know, it it's the snowball effect of like then the next year that family comes back because they're like, I had such a good time, like this race was so cool. you know, I'm I we have to go back again next year. And then hopefully, you know, they bring a whole whole camp with them, right? And so Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: that's kind of where like we've we would try to help out those but also at the same time like we built those relationships with the track operators too because it would be, you know, like our home track. And I've raced at my home track, you know, f say fifteen years before I did go up up to the like professional level. And so like it was just cool, you know, something to give back to them for, you know, thank you for letting me race here for fifteen years, right? Thank you for having a good track. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: and so that was something that like we we would kind of just offer to them. But then at the same time, it's like, okay, we can also give those free tickets to our sponsors. And so then that way that gives them something of value, right? And so it wasn't just for, you know, the fans. And so that was where like we would kind of try to tie it all together. And and then hopefully, you know, the fans then are big fans of our team, right? Because we gave them a free ticket. And so hopefully they're Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: a lifelong Brandy my racing fan, right? So it kind of yeah, like it's that that like tri factor. I guess that would kind of be more like a square effect. Like, well, there'd be four four, Amanda Van Den Elzen: Quad facta. Megan: yeah, four corners of that. But but yeah, like it's so that's something that well, like, and I'll be honest, we don't really do much of that anymore. And a lot of it is because like the tracks around us just aren't here anymore. Like Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: like unfortunately and I feel like man, like maybe there's more we could have done to help the tracks stay around more and and help the series, you know, keep coming to that track or something like that. but yeah, and then also that like made me think of something that we've also talked about is like working with the media and giving them your story to have something to talk about and that can be something that could help draw in more fans, or help someone, you know, connect or resonate with you. Maybe maybe there is someone that used to be a big fan of drifting and now they're just now hearing of off road or or drag racing and and they want to kind of learn more about what is this off road racing? Like I've never heard a short course before. And so Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: so yeah, so I think yeah, there's multiple ways as racers that we forget that like we also need to help out the series and help out the tracks so that way they stay around. And it's usually not that much work in order to Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. Megan: help out, to to help put on a good show, promote the events, you know, bring in some fans, engage with them. represent this series well, like offline and online and just yeah, working together. Amanda Van Den Elzen: And ultimately it also builds your brand. You know, that's that's the thing that I think a lot of racers are like, well, this is our series jobs or this is our tracks jobs to be able to bring people in. And Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: to a point, I agree with you. I think you know, I I have my own criticisms about like the marketing behind some of the motorsports that we've been involved in. But, you know, publicly airing that laundry out does harm to my brand. But stepping in to try and help only elevates my brand. And you know what? Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: You know, if if it doesn't go well with a series or a track that we're involved with, at least I can walk out and say my brand is intact and my program is stronger for the effort that I put into it. Cause these fans are going to be here whether the series is here or not, or my partners are going to be here whether the series is here or not. You know, like these are all things that that we can control that have no downside for us, even if they don't achieve the desired effort or the desired effect for our our tracks or our series too. Megan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I agree. Amanda Van Den Elzen: One thing that you said that I just want to bring back up, you were talking about doing ticket giveaways. And I think this is a huge opportunity for deliverables for our partners too, because we could be tying, you know, ticket giveaways to not just our tracks and our series and our events, but to our partners as well. We could be going to our partners that are local to these events, giving away tickets. And like to your point, you said, you know, that person is probably gonna bring some friends or, you know, they'll come back the next year. But think about when you are like, I would love to win tickets to that event. How much more likely are you to purchase tickets for that event when you don't win? Right. Like just because you didn't win doesn't mean that now you're not going. I think that that's a huge conversion factor, too, is just the like. Well, you know what, I'm gonna set aside this weekend to go to that event in case I win. Well guess what? I didn't win, but I still have that weekend set aside. And you know what? It's not that much. I'm gonna go anyway, it sounds fun. Megan: Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, and that yeah, that's something that I overskip too. But I mean that's true 'cause yeah, once you're maybe you've never heard of it before, but you're like, well I could win free tickets to it and then you look it up and you're like, that's actually really cool and then yeah, you don't end up winning the tickets but it's like, No, I think I actually want to go to that. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah, yeah. Even if it's not that year, right? You might next year then see an advertisement for it and go, I Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: saw that truck there in the parking lot at my favorite oil change place last year and I didn't win those tickets, but man, I really wanna see what that truck can do on the track. Megan: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's that is something to to think about too. Mm-hmm. Amanda Van Den Elzen: Yeah. All right. We we are Gabbin passed our time here. Megan: Yeah. Amanda Van Den Elzen: But I do want to thank everybody who has stuck around with us to this point. Hopefully you are now asking yourself, what is in it for me? And when I say me, I don't mean me, me. I mean our fans, our sponsors, our series, the people that we're trying to reach. What's in it for them? So Always be asking yourself that. Always be putting yourself into other people's shoes. And we will talk to you again in two weeks. Every other Thursday, we release a new episode. But until then, we love you. Bye. Megan: Thank you.