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Dan Levy on Storytelling and Positioning · Content, Briefly

• 0:00
  [ on-hold music] Hey, everybody, and thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of Content Briefly. Today, I'm chatting with my friend Dan Levy. Dan and I go way back.
• 0:14
  We met probably in twenty twelve, and actually in this episode, we talk about a guest post I wrote for a blog he was working on, which I said I couldn't find, but later on I found it, and it was published in, let's see, February twenty fourteen, A Content Marketer's Guide to the Post-Analytics World.
• 0:31
  Had to go in the way back machine to find this. But anyways, Dan and I have kept in touch over all these years.
• 0:36
  He's had a really cool career working with small startups, agencies, publicly traded companies, and just recently he's gone out on his own, forming a business called Storyline.
• 0:46
  And I'm just gonna read a quick excerpt from the LinkedIn post where he announced this.
• 0:51
  "The highest performing companies are the ones where everyone is singing from the same songbook and telling the same story, from their marketing campaigns and sales conversations to their product launches, executive keynotes, and town halls."
• 1:02
  And so that's what Dan is doing at Storyline. He's helping businesses figure out what their story is and then how to operationalize that story across the business.
• 1:12
  So we talk in this episode about content to some degree, at least in the context of, uh, where it fits into this sort of greater storytelling mission.
• 1:20
  We also talk about brand, product marketing, communications, PR, and how Dan kind of sees all those pieces on his board and how he makes them all work nicely together.
• 1:31
  Dan has really experienced this in a very interesting conversation from a unique perspective. This is not stuff that has come up at least on this podcast before.
• 1:39
  So anyways, really enjoyed this conversation with Dan, and I hope you do too. And also before I let you go, just a quick reminder to check out our new, relatively new anyways, thirty-day free trial of Superpath Pro.
• 1:51
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• 2:04
  There's so many opportunities to connect with other content marketers, meet people, learn things, support one another. So much good stuff going on there. You get all the details at superpath.co.
• 2:14
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• 3:04
  Hey, everybody, Jimmy from Superpath here today with Dan Levy. Not that Dan Levy, the not, not from Schitt's Creek.
• 3:09
  We have the real Dan Levy here today to talk content, positioning, brand, and a bunch of other good stuff. Dan, we go way back, like twenty ten, twenty eleven, twenty twelve. I don't know, like way, way back.
• 3:21
  We could talk about Spark Sheet maybe for a minute as we dive into this. Anyways, thanks for coming on. You've recently launched a new business called Storyline.
• 3:29
  We're gonna talk all about that, kind of the why, the how, the what of it. But first, before I get going on questions, can you introduce yourself?
• 3:35
  Tell us a little bit about who you are, what you're doing, and maybe give us like a brief history of your career to date so far too. Totally, yeah. So good to be here, Jimmy. We do go way back.
• 3:44
  Not a lot of people who remember Spark Sheet, but it is actually like, I think, a big part of my story, so we could talk a little bit about that. So Dan Levy, not the Schitt's Creek guy.
• 3:53
  I'm, I think, a year younger than him and pronounce my name differently, so totally different. We're both Canadian.
• 4:00
  And, you know, I've been, I guess, in this, what I call the story business for going on seventeen years now.
• 4:09
  Started my career in journalism, you know, did a master's in journalism, and then I interned actually in Washington, D.C.
• 4:16
  during the Obama campaign, and which also became the global-- the great-- the financial crisis, the Great Recession, so kind of baptism by fire in the journalism world.
• 4:27
  And then, you know, came home to Canada thinking actually I was gonna go maybe back to the States, had a visa for a year and do the journalism thing.
• 4:34
  But of course, not only did the whole economy bottom out, that was really when the traditional media model collapsed, newspapers, magazines, and I found kind of a different path, which was
• 4:46
  originally at a, what then called themselves a global custom publishing agency.
• 4:52
  So they did like high quality glossy magazines for luxury brands like Air Canada, Fairmont Hotels, Mercedes, and they were in the midst of kind of repositioning themselves as a digital content marketing agency.
• 5:05
  And because I was sort of a token young guy at the time, I had done also kind of a research assistantship at Harvard's Berkman Center, which was a digital media think tank. They were like, "Hey, help us figure this out."
• 5:16
  And I came on first as an unpaid intern, stayed there for about four and a half years, and built this publication called Spark Sheet, which started as their corporate blog and became this kind of multi-platform, we called it a multi-platform magazine, that was covering the intersection of content media and marketing, and doing it in a really journalistic way, but it was obviously branded content for the agency.
• 5:38
  And that was kind of how I was still one foot in sort of the publishing journalism world, one foot in, in marketing. From there was hired at a B2B SaaS company out in Vancouver called Unbounce. Unbounce. Yeah.
• 5:52
  Legendary SaaS. Yeah. Unbounce, huge deal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where I learned really, you know, B2B SaaS, digital marketing. Was their first content hire.
• 6:03
  It had been run by their founder, Oli Gardner, who you might know, Jimmy.
• 6:07
  And, and sort of hired me to sort of scale what he had started and built, and so I was running everything from their blog, which was a big deal at the time, webinarsWe did some, like, early kind of online video series using, what was it called?
• 6:22
  Remember Google Hangouts Live? [laughs] Do you remember that, that channel? Yeah. Uh, yeah, kind of weird, but we did this kind of really fun kind of infotainment thing on that.
• 6:32
  Launched a podcast before Serial, so before everybody was launching podcasts. We did one at Spark Sheet as well, actually. So yeah, really cool to see, you know, podcasts evolve as a medium.
• 6:43
  Anyway, was there for four years. That was sort of like my MBA. And then, you know, just fast-forward really quickly, kind of a series of different mostly B2B technology companies.
• 6:54
  A company called Smooch, which was in the enterprise space, really early to market around helping brands connect with their customers through messaging apps and conversational technology.
• 7:04
  We were acquired by Zendesk within a couple years, and so I did my couple years there, and then moved on to a kind of a Zendesk partner called Ada, which was a Toronto conversational AI startup.
• 7:14
  And then my last in-house job at LivePerson, again, publicly traded big B2B software company.
• 7:20
  And kind of, you know, what I've skipped here a little bit is, you know, started in content, ended up taking on sort of content and communications more broadly and brand marketing.
• 7:30
  And then finally at LivePerson, you know, I led product marketing, content, and communications.
• 7:35
  And to me, that was, like, an aha moment 'cause I was like, "Oh, this is all what I was trained in back in the journalism days. This is all story." Okay, that's so interesting.
• 7:44
  And one of the first things you said is you've been in the story business for a long time. That struck me. And what you just described about your experience at LivePerson, like, that kind of makes sense.
• 7:54
  I want to ask you a really dumb question. What is communications like? Like, what does it mean in the context of a publicly traded company? What is the job like? I've never experienced that myself.
• 8:04
  I have, like, only the vaguest idea of what that actually means.
• 8:08
  Yeah, really good question because honestly, content, communications, even product marketing, like, these things aren't really that well-defined, and they mean different things in different places, which is why I said story to kind of, you know, avoid that.
• 8:20
  But communications, I guess traditionally it's PR.
• 8:22
  Lately, you know, it's sort of PR plus social media, with social being, like, such an important, I guess, like, channel for communicating with even media but also investors, customers, the public.
• 8:35
  There's also an internal communications piece, an executive communications piece, which becomes more and more important the bigger the company, I would say.
• 8:42
  I think I discovered at LivePerson, I did lead, uh, communications as a function, but I discovered that, like, at, at heart... And in, and in the old days, it used to be a well-worn path.
• 8:52
  You'd go from journalism into comms. They used to call it in journalism school, like, going over to the dark side, right? It's two sides of the same coin. You're basically pitching to journalists all day.
• 9:01
  And but really I think that internal communications piece is a really important part, especially in the B2B tech world. And so that's actually not a function that I led at LivePerson.
• 9:10
  That got spun out into its own discipline, and the person, a great colleague of mine, Holly Ellison, who was the, y- the head of comms and sort of spun that out into this executive and internal comms role, I think is really, really good at that piece.
• 9:25
  And I come to realize, like, I think I'm too opinionated to do, like, classic comms because as a classic communications person, you're sort of channeling, you know, executive voice, and you're...
• 9:37
  In internal comms, you're doing a lot of coordination for town halls and stuff. It's a really, you know... I don't, I don't mean to undermine the skill set a- at all. It's just not one that I have.
• 9:46
  And so I think it made sense that got kind of spun out. But really, you know, communications meaning, like,
• 9:52
  right, you know, public relations, social content, meaning really all copywriting as well as, you know, your traditional content marketing.
• 10:01
  We could talk a little bit about those lines as well, because that gets a bit confusing. And then product marketing, which is...
• 10:06
  I really see as go-to-market strategy, product launch, and a lot of the sort of, like, more research pieces like competitive intelligence and analyst relations, all that stuff. It all kind of gets i- into one big stew.
• 10:19
  And so even though these functions can live in different places in different organizations, to me it all comes down to, number one, uncovering the story, and that's when, like, that research piece comes in.
• 10:30
  Number two, crafting the story, which is when really the core, you know, communications and writing skill set comes in.
• 10:35
  And then bringing the story to market, which is a combination kind of the more, let's say, marketing sides of content marketing, like campaign strategy, even SEO to a certain extent, but also, you know, some of the more classic media outreach, product launch, that, that kind of thing.
• 10:50
  So it's confusing, but for me it all makes sense when you think of it as story. Got it. Okay. I really like that.
• 10:57
  You know, I'm curious, having a background in journalism, working in content, you know, but also working in communications and product marketing, how has all of that shaped your view of content marketing today?
• 11:11
  And kind of what I'm getting at is, I'm just, I'm assuming that you probably think about it a little differently than someone who identifies themselves as a content marketer, right?
• 11:20
  Like, kind of thinking of myself a little bit here.
• 11:22
  Like, it's sometimes easy to have your content blinders on and forget that there's all these other ways that the company is going back and forth with customers or potential customers that aren't, you know, you're not strictly sort of adhering to the ways that content marketers operate.
• 11:40
  You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Totally. Yeah.
• 11:42
  I think about this stuff a lot because I did come through, you know, content marketing and was in more traditional content marketing roles and leadership roles for a while until I kind of branched into, you know, the comms and product marketing and brand side of things.
• 11:54
  So I think about that a lot.
• 11:56
  You know, I think a lot of journalists in the early days, like, so I'm talking, like, 2008, 2009, which is when I kind of came into this world, a lot of journalists came into cont- content marketing at that time, and we did so because, like, in those early days, it at least appeared as though our skills transferred really nicely to content marketing, and in many cases they did.
• 12:15
  But then I found that content marketing really morphed into something-...
• 12:18
  different over the years, and something that in some ways looks more like marketing, the marketing side of things than the content, or at least the journalism side of things.
• 12:26
  And that's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just not the work that I felt like I signed up to do at the time. And so,
• 12:34
  you know, I guess to transition a little bit into what I'm doing now at, at Storyline, you know, like I feel like I'm getting back to the work that like I was meant to do in this B2B technology world, which is, you know, a- again, number one, finding the story through this great research and really reporting, you know, crafting it through beautiful writing and compelling storytelling, and then like thirdly, yes, leveraging the skills that I amassed through, you know, almost two decades in marketing by helping businesses bring that story to market through all the different channels, right?
• 13:05
  And that includes your classic content marketing channels like blogs and webinars and e-books, but also sales channels. Also, you know, demand generation campaigns, also PR.
• 13:17
  And so, you know, I think at the end of the day, again, I just come back to the fact that it's all storytelling through different channels.
• 13:24
  And I think that for some reason, content marketers got put in this box that your job is the blog or your job is SEO. And I just think that our skill set as content creators is more broad than that.
• 13:39
  But I found that in those roles, I didn't really always have a seat at the table when it came to both strategic decisions, but even the strategic inputs that help me do my job well, right?
• 13:50
  And that's where like product marketers come in, right? 'Cause they're talking to customers, or they should be. They're not always talking to customers, but, you know, they're doing the competitive intelligence.
• 13:59
  They kind of master the markets. They often have a seat at the table in the more executive kind of strategic meetings around positioning.
• 14:07
  So I kind of, you know, to be honest, worked to sort of get myself out of the content box because I felt like I, I can do better work if I had this broader scope and this broader lens on the business and the story.
• 14:19
  That's a very, it's a very refreshing take on the way that content can help a business and educate or entertain readers.
• 14:28
  You know, like I, speaking for myself, and I definitely observe this among other content folks too, it is very easy to get in that box and believe that your job actually is to optimize yourself as a content marketer,
• 14:41
  which has a low ceiling or a lower ceiling, right, than this broader perspective. I find that to, I find that to be very interesting.
• 14:49
  You know, one thing I wanted to ask you about storytelling is, do you find that most companies have a story, they just need help wrangling it and then operationalizing it?
• 14:58
  Or is it that they're not really sure what their story is, and they need help kind of galvanizing everybody around the same idea, but they gotta pick the idea first? Kinda somewhere in the middle.
• 15:10
  I would say most companies have a pretty good idea of what their positioning is, and they might mistake positioning, which is really like what they are, what they do, like what's their market category, right?
• 15:20
  I am an X company that helps X customers do X, you know, that like really classic positioning statement. A lot of companies have an idea of that.
• 15:30
  They may have an idea, an inkling in some cases, of what the bigger story is.
• 15:36
  I think, you know, the most kind of visionary, uh, founders, CEOs, CMOs know that they need this sort of bigger, kind of more aspirational story as well, but they really do need help, as you put it, wrangling it.
• 15:48
  I, I use the word distill, right? Like help them distill their positioning, really distill in some cases, like their strategy into a story. Um, and that's the piece that I feel like that they struggle with.
• 16:02
  I think when I got into this, I thought I would be doing more classic positioning work.
• 16:06
  But number one, I mean, there are other, you know, positioning consultants, you know, who do that and who do that really, really well, and I wanted to find something that I felt like I was uniquely good at, was the story piece, but also identify this gap between, okay, companies have an idea of their positioning.
• 16:22
  Sometimes it's not even or not well-articulated, so I can help with that as well. But they may have sometimes pages and documents and documents and research and all these things.
• 16:32
  And somewhere i- between those, you know, different inputs and documents is, you know, is the positioning, and somewhere in there is actually the story.
• 16:40
  But they need help kind of distilling all that stuff into this really clear, compelling story that they can actually bring to market through messaging, through content, through all the, you know, all the good stuff that we've been talking about.
• 16:53
  Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Is there... Can I throw an example at you and see if this is, if I'm thinking about this the right way? I read somewhere that a building on Amazon's campus called Day 1,
• 17:06
  the idea, like Jeff Bezos wrote a memo titled Day 1. It's kind of this whole ethos of like we treat, you know, every day, whatever.
• 17:12
  We come to work every day as if it's the first day of the business, and then kind of there's this whole like philosophy around it.
• 17:17
  So then they name the building that, and then it's like, wow, that really like bakes it into the culture of the business, which is, you know, that's a little different because it's internal, I suppose.
• 17:25
  But is that like the type of thing that you're helping customers work towards?
• 17:28
  Like, let's distill this down to the s- kind of the narrowest possible phrase or sentence or word so that when we say it, everybody knows what we mean. Yeah. I think that is a good example.
• 17:40
  Like you said, more an internal story rather than like a go-to-market story. I think it's a good example.
• 17:45
  I do think that sometimes companies get a little bit too caught up in like the tagline or what is that, like one- Oh, okay... word- That's interesting... for it.
• 17:54
  You know, we, you know, we'll, we'll get down to that level.
• 17:56
  But, you know, when I think about like the strategic story that I put together, it's actually more like, you know, three short paragraphs, a bit of more of a narrative form. Um- Okay. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah.
• 18:07
  And then, and it, you know, I'll put a little title on that, which is sort of the equivalent. Often the title of this, you know, little narrative actually lines up really well with the market category, right?
• 18:16
  Or the, you know, uh, if it's not a market category, it could be like, you know, a movement or philosophy. So a good example of that is like HubSpot and inbound marketing.Right?
• 18:25
  Not necessarily a category, but, like, their philosophy on, on their market and on their space.
• 18:31
  So, you know, we'll get down to that level, but I think more useful from a go-to-market perspective is a bit more of a narrative form. And- Yeah...
• 18:39
  the format that it tends to take is, like, you know, a really clear and compelling framing of the problem.
• 18:46
  You know, then, you know, okay, here's how we solve that problem in a really unique way that's different from our competitors.
• 18:53
  And then I usually like to sort of end off with a bit more of, like, an aspirational or, you know, forward-looking statement that pulls, I guess, less from the positioning and more from the vision.
• 19:04
  That's another piece that I feel is actually missing from a lot of positioning work is that it doesn't include vision.
• 19:12
  And I think that makes sense when you're looking at positioning, 'cause positioning should be really grounded in what do we do now, how it's different. But if you're gonna get to the story level, you know, you need...
• 19:22
  Adding the vision, again, makes it more compelling and more forward-looking, and I think it's a really important part of a company's story, right? Customers do want to know,
• 19:33
  um, not just what you are today, but where you're going, especially if they're looking to sign up with you long term.
• 19:39
  And that could be because you're an enterprise company, but that could also mean that you're, I don't know, let's say you're a fintech, right?
• 19:44
  And companies are putting a significant amount of money with you, and they wanna grow their small business with you.
• 19:49
  I think they also care about, you know, number one, your philosophy on the space, but also, like, where you're going as a company and how you line up with the way they see the world.
• 19:58
  So that's sort of the, I guess, the purest output that I help clients with is that, like, strategic story.
• 20:06
  And then from there I'll kind of unpack those different elements that we talked about, you know, including some of those core positioning elements like, you know, their unique differentiators, you know, their unique value and why it matters, their competitors, their, you know, ICP and best fit customer market category.
• 20:23
  You know, I'll unpack that stuff from there, but do it in a way that's again written, like, so that you could... they could literally copy-paste that onto their website, right? So- Right...
• 20:32
  'cause it's well-written, and it's bold, and there's sort of messaging built in.
• 20:36
  So, you know, I think bridging the gap between positioning and messaging with story as a connective tissue is really, you know, how I've built Storyline.
• 20:45
  Okay, so once you're through the distillation phase of this, how easy or difficult is it to operationalize? Like, I'm imagining, like, okay, the brand team loves it. Does the sales team care? You know what I mean?
• 20:55
  Like, how do you get the other parts of the organization that need to be on board bought in so that they're using the right terminology, you know, sharing that story with the folks that they interact with, et cetera?
• 21:09
  Yeah. So one of the first... So, you know, let's talk, I guess, a little bit more tactically about how I work with clients.
• 21:15
  So number one, right, uncovering the story, so that's the mix between the competitive research, the market research, talking to customers or the customer research, and, like, in-depth interviews with leadership.
• 21:27
  Crafting that into this strategic story that we talked about in this kind of, I call it the core messaging and positioning guide, which is the strategic story and the elements kind of unpacked through copy-paste messaging.
• 21:40
  And then the next thing that I do, which is bringing the story to market, is I'll actually help them translate this into their first go-to-market asset.
• 21:48
  And in some cases, you know, that's their homepage, but in many cases, and where I actually suggest that companies start if they have, you know, have a significant sales motion, is through their sales deck.
• 22:00
  Because that's when we can really take these elements and take this story and, you know, number one, test it in the market in a really tangible way.
• 22:09
  And number two, show the sales team, you know, that this is not just brand stuff, right? It's not just mission, vision, and values.
• 22:16
  This is really, you know, core positioning, differentiation, and a narrative that helps position the company but also the salespeople as experts in their space. And so by
• 22:28
  translating the kind of core story into a sales pitch first, you know, you're really able to get the, who, you're right, are typically the most skeptical people bought in from the get-go. Yeah. It's so interesting.
• 22:42
  One question for you personally is, how long did you have the itch to go out on your own before you decided to scratch it? It was in the back of my head for a long time.
• 22:53
  Even going back to, like, [laughs] Spark Sheet days, I remember...
• 22:56
  I wouldn't think about consulting, but I remember, you know, talking to some colleagues, and we, we had a couple ideas for, like, startups and doing our own thing. And
• 23:05
  so I think I always had, like, an entrepreneurial itch, but I just didn't know exactly how to scratch it, and I was almost, like, waiting for, you know, an idea or an opportunity to maybe partner with a product person.
• 23:18
  And it wasn't until... And then actually going into my gig, my last gig at LivePerson, I did kind of flirt with this idea of like, okay, am I ready to do my own thing? Am I ready to consult?
• 23:29
  And I did have some exploratory conversations, and I took on some, like, side consulting, you know, maybe six, seven years ago before I had kids, and I realized that, like, [laughs] side hustles aren't a thing when you have a family anymore.
• 23:43
  So, you know, I think I flirted with it for a little bit, but I wasn't that clear on what my offer was besides, like, I can do content, and I can do comms, and I can do product marketing. Like, I can do all these things.
• 23:54
  But number one, how is that differ- how am I differentiated? And then, and number two, like, are these things that actually lend themselves to consulting?
• 24:03
  And actually one of the best pieces of advice I got pretty recently was from this positioning consultant, April Dunford. I don't know if you've heard of her.
• 24:11
  She's written a couple books about positioning and, you know, definitely a leader in, in, in that space.
• 24:16
  And I was lucky enough to, you know, to talk to her and get some advice, and she said, "Look, find something that, number one, you're the best in the world at, and number two, that actually makes sense to bring in a consultant for."Right?
• 24:29
  Because there's some things that, like, y- yeah, you're pro- maybe better off getting someone in-house, right? And maybe they're more junior, but you can train them and grow that, you know, grow them over time.
• 24:39
  So I think it wasn't until my experience at LivePerson when, again, I was sort of at the helm of these three different functions within marketing that are often separate but that I saw as so clearly intertwined with story as the umbrella, that I kinda said, "Aha," like, this is something different.
• 24:59
  This is something that I feel like I'm actually uniquely good at, and that it does make sense to bring in a consultant for, because, you know, it's not just product marketing, right?
• 25:09
  Most product marketers do not have the storytelling gene, right? They're not particularly good writers a lot of the time. It's just not their core skill set. The content folks love them, you know?
• 25:20
  That again, you know, those are our kind of brothers and sisters. But like I said, often don't have, like, a seat at that table to get close enough to the business to do that sort of strategic work.
• 25:31
  And then, you know, communications, again, often, you know, not really coming up with a story, but, like, kind of wrangling and finding ways to bring that story, you know, into different channels like PR and social.
• 25:45
  So I think, you know, this is one of these things where it makes sense to bring in an expert who just does this and could just focus on this strategic work that's gonna fuel the rest of your marketing machine and your sales engine.
• 25:58
  But while your existing team kind of focuses on, you know, things that are, I guess, not necessarily more urgent, but sort of the day-to-day work that, that, you know, product marketers have a ton on their plate.
• 26:10
  You know, content people have a ton on their plate. Salespeople are doing sales, right? So it kinda made sense to, you know, for this to be something that I could do sort of in a vigilante way. Yeah.
• 26:21
  It is kinda interesting, actually. For lack of a better phrase, you kinda have to take your own medicine, I guess, as you bring storyline to life, r- right? To explain, like, you know, "I'm Dan. Here's what I do.
• 26:32
  H- here's why it's valid." But, like, how... Do you find yourself sort of going through this exact same exercise that you run your clients through as you get rolling? Yeah, I actually did exactly that.
• 26:41
  So I actually put myself through the literal exercise, and I came up with my own messaging and positioning guide. Oh, cool.
• 26:47
  I did it, like, first just as an exercise, just to see, like, okay, like you said, like, I need to have this pretty crisp and clear if this is what I'm gonna be doing for my customers.
• 26:55
  And then once I had it, I was like, "Oh, this is actually a great asset to send to prospective customers and say, 'This is what your first deliverable's gonna look like. You'll get a sense of my work.'"
• 27:05
  And by the way, they'll learn things like how I'm different from my competitors, right? Whether that's a fractional CMO or, you know, a positioning consultant or an in-house marketer, right?
• 27:17
  So it was sort of a sneaky way to get my own and set my own messaging while also giving sort of a very tangible example of my work.
• 27:24
  Yeah, that's awesome, because also assuming that they become your client, then, like, th- this exact thing has helped make a sale, which is exactly the thing that they're gonna try and do with this also. Yeah, exactly.
• 27:38
  Right, that's true. It's like even, yeah, great social proof. And I'm like, "Look, it sold you." [laughs] Yeah, totally. Potential customers. Yeah. [laughs] That's awesome. [laughs] Super cool.
• 27:45
  Dan, thanks so much for coming on this. I'm very excited for you. Like, we've known each other for a long time. I wrote a guest...
• 27:50
  I was actually trying to find the guest post I wrote for SparkSheet on the WayBack Machine this morning. I couldn't find it. But this is, like- Yeah... tw- 12, 13 years ago. Long time. So...
• 27:59
  And we've stayed in touch throughout this, uh, entire time. Like, your career has been really fun to watch, and I'm just, I'm really pumped for you in this next phase. So we'll be rooting for you.
• 28:08
  And how can we help spread the word? Like, we'll share your LinkedIn profile, of course. Is there anywhere else we should send people? Yeah, LinkedIn, of course. Danjlevy.com. So my websites.
• 28:17
  I think those are probably the two best places to, to find me and learn more about my work. You know, if you're listening to this, watching this, feel free to reach out directly.
• 28:25
  I'd love to connect and sort of talk story and hear about where you are w- in your business or maybe in your content and, and storytelling career. Superpath has been, you know, a huge...
• 28:35
  I mean, you've been a huge influence on me before Superpath, but I actually wore, and I should say, I wore my Superpath every day in Mexico, my Superpath hat. Nice. [laughs] Yeah, that you sent me a few years ago.
• 28:46
  [laughs] So, so, you know, love the community. Like, happy to give back wherever I can. And yeah, for those of you who are listening, please don't hesitate to reach out and connect. Awesome.
• 28:55
  We'll put links in the show notes so it's easy to find you. Dan, we really appreciate you. Hope we can do it again sometime soon. Yeah, for sure. Anytime. Thanks, Jimmy. Awesome. Take care. [outro music]