Latest / Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint / How Many Interactions Does It Really Take to Make a Sale?!

Transcript

How Many Interactions Does It Really Take to Make a Sale?! · Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint

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Today on the podcast, we're going to look at how many touch
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points do you need? How many touch points do you
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require to close a deal? Another way of saying that is
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this. When you're having a set of
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conversations, a set of interactions with a potential
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customer, how many times do you need to touch up with that
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person? Do you need to talk 5 * 6 * 12
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times? How many meetings do you need to
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have 23512? So those are the kind of issues
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that we're going to be discussing today.
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Now, the reason why we're going to be talking about this is
0:37
because you guys who've been listening to the Pod House for
0:41
the last week are aware that my partners and I are coming up
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with a series of trainings that will start from the 12th of
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December 2020, sixth and run until the 23rd of December.
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Now it's going to be a two week intensive 5 days, of course,
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Monday to Friday and then Monday to Friday you'll have weekends
1:04
off. So don't worry, it's not going
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to be this marathon thing. And we're going to talk about
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lots of issues around how you close the deal using the phone.
1:17
I'm currently in conversations with someone who is going to be
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a participant in the training and his name is Darnley.
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And, you know, Darnley, as in DARNLEY about when he uses, you
1:29
know, surname to protect his identity.
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So Downley. And of course, I told him that
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he has the record for the most interesting Nigerian name that
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I've come across to date because I've heard of all kinds of
1:43
names, but I've never heard of it Downley before.
1:45
And then he said he's used to it.
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You know, growing up in Abuja, eventually in Port Harcourt, you
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know, everybody's always tripped by his name.
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So yes, if you've heard that name before and you've wondered,
1:55
do Nigerians bear this name? Yeah they do and I'm in touch
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with one of them now. Darley is a voice over artist
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and he runs his own agency. What they do is they do
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audiobook production and he also has a background in broadcast.
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His business has been going on for about 8 years and what they
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do is they produce audiobooks for Nigerian authors.
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They take your text, they take your written words and then they
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transform it into audio so that you can be listed on several
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audio book platforms and you can find other ways of making
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revenue by selling your books, you know, maybe as audio books
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on Amazon or whatever. So that is what Dan Lee does and
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he is going to be a part of the cohort next year, 12th of
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January 2026. So you can see the classroom is
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already filling up with people who are doing big things, people
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who are doing interesting things and people who are doing
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exciting things. So if all you've been doing is,
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you know, since you graduated, you've been doing your lawyer
3:00
work, you've been doing your wedding photography work.
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And as far as you're concerned, you know, Nigeria is just, you
3:06
know, trade as that's all trading a hand work.
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You like to step into the room and be with people who are doing
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other kinds of things that you haven't heard before and making
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money in different kinds of ways.
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Then this will be the perfect opportunity for you.
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Come the 12th of January, 2026, we'll be talking about all kinds
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of things. Now, one of the things that
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we're going to be talking about, because it has really come up in
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the preliminary discussions I've been having with Donnelly.
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Oh, and by the way, like I've been saying, and some of you
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might not believe me or might not take me seriously, I
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actually want to talk to all of you.
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I want to talk to all of you before we begin the class
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because I love money, but I'm not a fraud.
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Before I collect your money, I want to know who you are.
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I want to know what your business is.
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I want to know what your business goals are.
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I want to know what problems you've been facing.
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I want to know what obstacles you've been facing because I
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want to be sure that this training is going to be able to
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help you. And I will going to be able to
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come up with concrete solutions for every single person in that
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classroom. So this thing is only going to
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work if I get to know you guys ahead of time.
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So of course. Yeah.
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Darling, you know, we've chatted a few times, exchanged some
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audio, some voice notes, and then eventually, you know, we
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had a phone call as we've been talking about a couple of
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things. And Darling brought up one thing
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that we're actually going to talk about during the training.
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He was talking about how in their own typical sales cycle,
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one way that they decide, you know what, I know we'll pursue
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this person again. Like there's no room here.
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One of the ways that I've been looking at that was he came
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across a rule somewhere about seven touch points.
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And so for him, seven touch points once you try to tackle
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somebody 12345 by the time you enter 7 no show you just flashy.
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And it's something he has always wondered, is it too soon?
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Did I stop too soon? Was there room?
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Was there a way to make progress?
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Could this have been a deal? So he was wondering, as in some
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of the things that came up in our pre preliminary
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conversation, just getting to know each other before the
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class. And luckily, this is one of the
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questions that we're going to answer when we start the
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training next year on the 12th of January 2026.
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Now, if you're listening to this podcast episode in, I don't
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know, 2028 or whatever, don't worry.
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This program is going to have several editions.
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So all you have to do is just reach out to me and we'll see
5:43
how we can get you to be a part of the current edition of the
5:46
program. Oh, by the way, if this is your
5:49
first time listening to the podcast, my name is Tavishima
5:52
Ayede. I'm your host.
5:54
I'm a former lawyer turned business consultant.
5:57
And over here on the podcast, these are the kinds of questions
6:00
that I'd like to answer almost every other day.
6:03
Shah, you won't go a whole week without not hearing anything
6:07
from me when we talk about these sorts of things.
6:09
How do you find customers? How do you close the deal?
6:11
How many conversations should you be having?
6:13
Should you be having physical meetings?
6:15
Should you be making phone calls?
6:16
Should you be driving to your house, to their house?
6:19
Should you invite them over to your studio?
6:22
Should you attend trade fairs? How do you close the deal?
6:25
If you're talking with somebody that the person is based in
6:27
Canada and you're in Afghanistan?
6:29
These are the kinds of things that we talk about over here on
6:31
the show. So if you'd love to connect with
6:34
me, then call, send me a text message or send me a WhatsApp
6:38
message on 08064662140. And if you love these sorts of
6:47
issues, then stay tuned in. Subscribe to the podcast on
6:51
Spotify, on YouTube, on Apple or any player of your choice.
6:56
Now back to what I was saying, my guy, darling.
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Now he's wondering how many touch points to close a deal
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they've been doing. 7 is 7. OK.
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Oh, I forgot, apologies. I'm currently in the villa right
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now because, you know, recording this around December.
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So it's a full house. My kids are here, wifey is here,
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Mumsy is here, my cousins are here, the kids are here,
7:22
neighborhood chickens are here. So they're going to hear noise
7:24
coming in through the background.
7:26
So no Vex, but also don't worry because the matter, the noise
7:31
that you're in the background. You know that when you're
7:33
chilling with your boy on this podcast, you're always going to
7:36
get good value. So don't worry about the noise.
7:39
It's not even a problem. Anyway, 7 minutes don't pass.
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Let's get straight into it. Now, how many touch points you
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require to close the deal And how do you know when you have
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done too much or you've not done enough?
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Before we answer this question, I want to define a few things
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here just to make sure we're on the same page.
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Now touch points just means any interaction you have with a
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potential customer. So back to the example that I
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always give you on the podcast, not because it's the best, but
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because it's, you know, it's easy to understand because after
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law I ventured into events, wedding photography and video.
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So that is easy to understand. Now, Abby, so the touch points
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are very simple. I would show up at a business
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fair. We used to call our own wedding
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Expo. I show up at the wedding Expo,
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I'll meet somebody on the floor. That's touch one.
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I bring somebody back to the booth.
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Extended conversation. That's torch two.
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Well, me, I like to look at it as two touches.
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Some people say no, done all. Now one touch because it's in
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the same venue. OK, no problem.
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Let's say now one touch because he's in the venue.
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You meet them on the floor, you bring them to the booth, one
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touch. Then after the show is over, you
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call them up to say, hey, establishment, Of course, don't
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remember where I was. I said that black guy.
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Now that been way boy, they say oh, Mr. TVI don't know.
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And then, you know, we start talking blah, blah, blah.
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Was nice catching up. Remember we said we're going to
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see Wednesday next week. Are you still go?
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Oh no, Wednesday I'm not available.
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And let's make it Friday, Friday at 5:00 PM.
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OK, sure. You come to the studio?
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Oh, no, I can't come and no problem.
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I can meet you at work. When is your lunch break?
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Lunch break is 2:00 PM. OK, no problem.
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I'll see you at Zenith Bank. Which of the Zenith Bank?
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We say to Abby which branch? OK, confirmed.
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End the call. Brap that interaction.
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That is now touch 2. Hope you guys are like you're
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with me. Hope we're we're working here.
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So that's torch 2. Torch one was bridal Expo
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wedding fair. Torch 2 was called to confirm
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the appointment. Then torch 3 is, I'll send a
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reminder the day before because you know, people forget.
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So that's torch three. Torch 4 is now ashore by the
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Babe's office and, you know, went into the banking hall.
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Maybe we sit somewhere inside the customer service area.
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And then we talk a bit about our plans for the wedding.
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That is Torch 4:00. And then I have enough
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information now to come up with a couple of proposals, so I'll
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tell her, OK, You know what, based on what we've spoken
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about, I think I can now meet you on Cooley.
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Maybe let's meet next weekend. Next weekend we'll now go over
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specific plans about how we'll do photography coverage and
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video coverage for you. She will say, of course, that
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sounds cool. Then we end the meeting and then
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we go, we finished Torch 4. Torch 5 will now be I sent her a
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message again saying, hey, what's up?
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Remember Yumi Kohli was supposed to see so, so, so, so she we can
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meet City Plaza. She will say it's cool, no
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problem. That is now torch what 5,
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Assuming I'm counting correctly. Then eventually we have the mini
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meeting app, City Plaza, where I showed them a couple of
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proposals and I get them to select which one it is that they
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think they like. And then now we are touch six.
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I'll be touch 7. Now, even if you're just
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listening to this podcast for the very first time, I trust
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that you are already getting the concept that we're hitting out
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here, hinting out here when we talk about the touches, the
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touch points that are required to close a deal.
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Very few deals are closed in one touch.
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As per this is the first time I'm meeting you.
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This is the first time we're shaking hand.
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This is the first time we're talking.
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Then next you're transferring millions of naira to me.
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Very few deals are closed that way.
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Most deals require multiple touch points, multiple
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interactions with your potential customer, customer before you
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close the deal. So this is what we mean when we
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say a touch point. Now someone like Darley who is
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in the audio production business, clearly you can see
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that his own business too will require multiple touch points.
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You will talk, you will arrange meeting, you will look at
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scripts, you will look at the book, you do correction, you do
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back and forth, you will negotiate, you will price, you
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will transfer the deposit. You can see as in multiple touch
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points. So the concern for Dan Lee and
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the concern for some of you now is how many is enough?
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I've been talking to this guy over the last four weeks.
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In the four weeks we have had 12 touch points.
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Is it enough to try and close the deal or should I say, oh,
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this guy no, they do. I beg, let me free them.
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Let me go and look for somebody else to talk to.
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This guy is not going to buy. We've had 12 touch points.
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The guy no, they shake body. This guy is not buying.
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So those are the questions that we're looking at.
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Now let's look at, let's try and define something else. close the
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deal. For most of you listening to
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this podcast, when you hear close the deal, what you think
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of is you have collected your deposit, you've collected your
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50%, your 80%. Those of you who collect 20%,
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honestly speaking where Niger, I really, really disagree.
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I mean, in the SME space, I really don't know why you're
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collecting 20% deposit. I really don't know, honestly.
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Like save yourself from headache.
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If you're going to be collecting deposits, please at least
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collect 50%, please, I beg you. Anyway, it depends on the
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business, it depends on the product, it depends on the
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service, you know. So, but sure, those of you that
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collect 20%, it's just to save yourself the headache.
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Because if you collect 20% from somebody to start the job, think
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of the number of phone calls you're going to be doing to now
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be collecting 80%. May not just stress make your
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life easy. So for a lot of you, when you
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hear close the deal, what you guys think of is deposit.
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As in I have collected the money, I'm holding the cash in
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my hand, they have done the transfer, I have seen the ping
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game or I have collected the full amount.
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That's what all all of you think of when you hear close the deal.
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But from what I've explained now about touch points and the
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multiple interactions, you can see that closing the deal
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actually happens in stages. Small, small, small, small,
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small. So back to the wedding
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photographer example, I meet them on the floor.
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When I say on the floor, how will I put it?
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Now, when you go for business Expo, like for those of you who
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sell tractors and things like that, when you attend Lagos
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International Trade Fair or Abuja International Trade Fair,
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there's the general exhibition floor where people just, they
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mix and everybody just they move, you know.
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So that's all we mean when we say on the floor.
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Then there are people that have their booth at the edges of the
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event. So where was I?
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How did I get here? So multiple interactions.
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You actually close the deal in small steps.
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When you meet somebody on the floor, you actually have to get
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them to come to the booth. That is a small way of closing
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the deal. When you get to the booth, you
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actually need to get them to be comfortable to talk about their
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business. That's also another small close.
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When they talk about their business, you actually have to,
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you have to collect their contact details.
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That's also another small close. When the trade fair close, you
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call them up, you gas to get them to agree for a meeting.
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That's also another small close. So even though there's a big
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close at the end when you collect, deposit, collect,
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transfer, collect the full amount, you're still closing the
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business in small steps along the way.
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Excuse me. Now that is what we call in this
15:29
profession, those of us who are sales or marketing, this is what
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we call conversions. Conversion is when you get the
15:35
person to take one small step. The principle is this, if you
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agree, if you get somebody to agree in principle to smaller
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steps, small, small, small, small, small, eventually you get
15:46
to to be close. It's the same thing in in
15:48
business relationships and also in romantic relationships too.
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It is very rare that you meet somebody today and you just
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propose to her and she will agree to marry you.
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The normal course of things is, you know, you'll get her to
16:01
laugh small 1st and you'll give me your name.
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That's a small victory. The next step is you try and
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collect phone number. She didn't give you a phone
16:08
number today. Maybe next year she gives you
16:10
phone number, that's a small victory.
16:12
Then of course, first date, you know, she will say I'm busy a
16:16
couple of times. Eventually you guys go to the
16:18
cinema. OK, small victory.
16:20
So it's like that small, small victory.
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And then one day you'll be in the same position where I am,
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where you're telling people that, oh, I've been married now
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for over 15 years and these are my children.
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So small, small steps. It's the same thing in business
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relationships as in personal relationships as well.
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So for those of you young men who are listening to this thing
16:41
now, people feel like you got game and you want to close the
16:44
deal that very first day, like, relax, take it easy.
16:49
Maybe you're that smooth, no problem.
16:50
But for the average guy, look, don't overdo.
16:53
The victory is in small, small steps.
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All those people, they're looking at 20 years marriage, 30
16:58
years marriage, seven children, you know, small, small steps you
17:01
will get there. Don't worry, don't rush.
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All right, so those are conversions.
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Now, these are the three main concepts.
17:11
What you guys to pay attention to touch points.
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Touch points just means any interactions you have with
17:16
someone close the deal. That means collect the full bar,
17:20
the full money. That's where I is.
17:22
You want to collect that 4 million, correct?
17:27
That's close. But then along the way, you will
17:29
have conversions. Small, small, small steps,
17:33
small, small agreements. The small, small agreements will
17:36
lead you to be close. Always remember, every time you
17:41
listen to this podcast or every time you listen to another
17:44
person's podcast that is on sales or marketing, they might
17:47
not break it down to you the way that I've broken down, but trust
17:50
me, this principle applies so long as his business and we're
17:56
talking about these principles, they apply.
18:00
So now let's move straight into the question.
18:01
Since we've already done 18 minutes, is there a fixed number
18:05
of steps that is required? Because remember down Lee, he
18:09
had somewhere that seven touch points.
18:11
So is there a fixed number now? OK, 7, the guy know the shake
18:15
body, this guy won't buy. OK, 12, the baby know the pick
18:20
call. That means we're not making
18:21
progress. Or maybe you make 102 touches
18:26
and you know you're not. You don't feel as if you're
18:29
making progress. Is there a fixed number?
18:32
Is HE1O2? Is he 7?
18:34
Is it 1000? How do we know when we've done
18:37
enough? How do we know when to give up?
18:41
So let me answer this question now.
18:42
Is there a fixed number of steps required?
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The answer is no, there is no fixed number of steps required.
18:48
And so I told Dan Lee even before the training, I told him
18:51
for free. I told him, forget all these
18:54
people who tell you fixed number in America.
18:59
This is just about, you know, 16 to 30 something touch points
19:05
required to close a deal. You know, when people talk like
19:07
that, they're talking, you know, it's more of a guideline,
19:11
general guideline. And they're trying to give you a
19:14
realistic expectation just so that you don't call somebody
19:17
four times, they don't answer, and then you give up.
19:21
So having these things as averages is not a bad idea.
19:24
But whenever somebody is telling you a fixed number of touch
19:27
points, they usually are talking about certain kinds of contexts
19:32
because the number of steps required depends on the context.
19:37
What kind of product are you selling?
19:39
What is the price of the product that you're selling?
19:41
Is your product a simple one or is it a complex one?
19:44
What are the number of parties that are involved in buying your
19:47
product or service? Is relationship building
19:50
essential in buying your product for your service?
19:53
These are the kinds of things that you have to ask yourself
19:55
that will determine the number of steps that be required.
20:01
Now think about it. I've given an example with me
20:04
back in the wedding photography days and with Darnley in his
20:08
audio book production business. How cheap or how expensive is
20:14
it? That will determine how many
20:15
times you touch up because if something is a commodity.
20:19
Commodities are low torch. When you go to the market and
20:23
you want to buy a Gucci, it is low torch.
20:26
Not too much grammar, of course, maybe some small talk, tenable
20:29
economy, blah blah blah. She will tell you 5000 naira per
20:32
cup. You price it, eventually you pay
20:34
for it. But Shah, you know there and
20:38
there is a commodity. One torch, one time.
20:43
If it's not expensive, you'll be low torch.
20:47
If you think, don't the price. If it's, you know, if it's an
20:52
expensive something, something, something, expect that there
20:56
will be multiple touches. So a go see one touch.
21:02
On the other hand, if you want, let's say, let me stick to a go
21:06
see if on the other hand, you want to buy a trailer load of a
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go see multiple touches because you can't just go and drop
21:13
millions of naira to buy a trailer load of a Gucci from
21:15
someone unless you know one or two things.
21:19
So when there's One Cup of a Gucci, one touch, if you're a
21:23
trader in a Gucci and you want to buy a trailer load of a Gucci
21:27
in an Ambra so that you can move it to Abuja and sell in the
21:30
general market, There will be multiple touches that will be
21:33
involved. Or you guys can see how it works
21:35
according to price, which is the reason why when you hear
21:39
somebody on LinkedIn, an American person saying, you
21:42
know, average of 32 touches, just it's not as if it's wrong.
21:46
But you know, it depends on their own context.
21:48
What are they talking about? Are they talking about
21:50
construction? Are they talking about
21:51
insurance? What are they talking about?
21:56
So always hear it with that backdrop in mind.
21:59
That's the reason why I say there's no fixed number.
22:03
Don't hold yourself to any fixed number.
22:05
But even if you hear any fixed number, it is contextual and
22:08
it's just your Roth guide. That is what clarified this
22:15
confusion with Americans saying this is the number of touch
22:18
points, British people saying there's the number of touch
22:20
points, Australian people saying there's the number of touch
22:23
points, and Nigerians saying these are the number of touch
22:25
points because it's all contextual.
22:29
Then your product, how simple or how complex is it?
22:34
1 cup of Agusi is a very simple something now is it not?
22:38
I see the Agusi is either good or it's not.
22:41
It's either dry or it's not. It is either white or it has
22:44
started turning black. I will pay one time if I'm
22:51
buying a trailer load of a goose.
22:52
On the other hand, because I ought to be a middleman
22:55
distributing to different markets in Abuja, it's a little
22:58
bit complex now because there are different moving parts to
23:01
consider. I have to consider the
23:03
credibility of the person who is selling me this thing.
23:08
I have to consider the integrity of transportation along the
23:12
value chain. Will they live on time?
23:14
Will they practice thing on time, Will they store it on
23:17
time, Will they deliver on time? When we say complexity, we just
23:20
mean the number of moving parts that we have to consider.
23:23
And in this case now because I'm buying a trailer load of a Gucci
23:27
so I can distribute in the major markets in Abuja, you can see
23:32
that the number of things I have to consider, the number of
23:34
moving parts to consider is rising and rising and rising is
23:37
becoming more complex because of that.
23:41
And so therefore I will need multiple touch points so I can
23:45
verify all these things. And you say you can produce the
23:48
Gucci, Where's your farm? Let me see it.
23:51
And this is the one that you produced.
23:53
OK, How many, how many kilogram are we packaging it?
23:55
Is it 55 kilogram, 1010 kilogram, 50 kilogram.
23:58
Let me see them. Which kind of bag is it back
24:00
with Super sack? Is it this?
24:02
Is it that? Which kind of tipper are you
24:03
using? The tipper is you open back or
24:07
you cover it with tampoline? Then delivery from a number to
24:10
Abuja. How many days delivery are you
24:13
coming to my warehouse? I'll be like, you can see that
24:15
there are a number of things to consider.
24:18
It is now becoming complex, plenty of moving parts.
24:22
And because of this level of complexity, more touch points
24:28
are going to be required because there's a lot that I need to
24:30
verify. I can't just carry millions and
24:32
then just give somebody like that.
24:34
No. So price, if it's cheap, one
24:39
touch point. It was expensive.
24:43
Multiple touch points for those of you who have children.
24:45
Daddy, buy me ice cream. Which one?
24:47
This one. OK, How much is it?
24:49
400 naira. You just pay that.
24:54
Buy me a skateboard. We skateboard that one.
24:57
You ask the person how much it is.
24:58
Oh, we have different ranges of skateboards.
25:00
This particular one costs 400,000 naira.
25:04
Oh, yes, Sir. And we have this line, that
25:05
line, that line. You know what?
25:09
Let me have your phone number. I'll give you a call.
25:11
I'll call you later. You see, in that case, multiple
25:14
touch points are required. The thing is cheap.
25:17
You pay one time, they tell you that skateboard is 400 K, you
25:20
say, and then multiple touch points required.
25:23
You go and you talk with wifey, you call the person back, you go
25:25
to the store, you look at a couple, maybe your son drives
25:28
out one or two. Then you go and save them before
25:31
you come back. Multiple touch points required.
25:35
Complexity, How many moving parts are involved?
25:38
The more parts, the more things you need to consider.
25:40
There will be more touch points then number of parties.
25:49
Normal party just means number of people involved in the
25:52
transaction. That also determines the number
25:54
of touches. So for wedding photography, that
25:57
one was relatively straightforward.
25:59
I'm talking with the bride, I'm talking with the groom.
26:01
I'm good when it comes to payment.
26:04
Our Nasta Harrison mumsy and popsy in, you know, worst case
26:07
scenario, but you can see that for wedding photography, worst
26:10
case scenario, I'm only talking to four people.
26:12
Worst case 4. There are some businesses on the
26:17
other hand, that normal, normal, you have to be talking to like
26:21
12-13 people. For those of you who want to,
26:25
you know, enter into the fintech space.
26:26
I mean, think about it, you're trying to sell software to
26:28
Zenith Bank. You can't just talk to the MDI
26:31
think you're done? You talk to the MD?
26:34
Yes, the MD will have to deliberate with the board.
26:37
If you know one or two people in the board, it might help.
26:39
So one moment. OK, I'm sorry about that.
26:42
So like I said earlier, you know kids around and so my younger
26:45
son just needed me for something.
26:48
So like I was saying, now those of you who are selling to Zenith
26:51
Bank, there's not enough that you know the MD.
26:53
So if you know the MD, you have the phone number for one or two
26:56
people on the board, you'll be good.
26:57
If you have the phone number for somebody in the tech department,
27:00
it'll be good. Would be nice if you also know
27:01
somebody in procurement, would also be nice if you know someone
27:04
who is one of the IT officers or something like that, you know,
27:08
because the IT officers would be important when it comes to
27:11
evaluating your software. Can it help them work in the
27:14
business? Sorry, one moment.
27:17
OK, sorry Mona Novak's. I already told you guys at the
27:20
beginning that you know I'm in the villa, so interruptions
27:24
galore. Well, anyway, let's continue.
27:28
I think I was talking about number of parties.
27:31
Yes, number of parties. So I was talking about how for
27:34
me by as a wedding photographer, number of parties worst case
27:38
scenario for. But for those of you who are
27:42
trying to sell business to business or enterprise software
27:48
or payment solutions or something.
27:51
I think I already counted like 6 or 7 people that you should be
27:54
touching base with. It might even be high as 10 or
27:58
maybe even 15 just to close one deal.
28:02
Now the point I'm trying to make is this, the more parties that
28:05
you have to talk to, obviously the more touch points you have.
28:10
So in the beginning is the bride I'm talking to.
28:13
So touch point, touch point, touch point.
28:14
Eventually I want to sit down with her and her Bobo when
28:18
humble boy is involved. I'm doing 2 two touch points as
28:20
I'm calling her. I'm calling him because I need
28:25
both of them on the same page or else I'm not collecting this
28:28
money if the bride likes me, but the groom like somebody else,
28:31
Wahala. If they both like me and I think
28:35
my price is reasonable, but their parents think that my
28:37
price is expensive Wahana. So you see, I go to touch points
28:41
like that, call the bride, call the go call mumsy.
28:45
OK, It was not usual that I will call popsy, but JA, you see
28:49
multiple touch points now. So I would have followed them,
28:53
Yan, because it's four parties now.
28:58
If I'm selling complex financial products now and it's 1520
29:03
people that I'm supposed to keep in touch with, can you see that
29:06
you can't just say O32 touch points required?
29:09
If there are twenty parties involved, then which one is 32
29:12
touch points? 32 touch points?
29:15
You have barely called everybody 11 time, so there's no fixed
29:20
number. Your situation will be different
29:22
from my own. Then relationship building, how
29:26
much relationship building is required?
29:29
You know, it also depends on the context and all you know.
29:31
But there's some situations where no relationship building
29:34
required. So back to the Agusi example 1
29:36
cup of Agusi, no relationship building required.
29:39
I get in, but I'm giving the Agusi.
29:41
I buy, I leave. But if I want to buy a truckload
29:46
of a Gucci so I can distribute to small, small markets in Abuja
29:49
or in Lagos, relationship building now is required because
29:54
relationship building is my protection.
29:58
It's not as if I like these people.
29:59
It's just that if any our gas and I need to go and get
30:02
military people, I need to be able to take military and go
30:04
straight to somebody's house and say this is where this burger
30:07
lives. I've given this guy millions,
30:09
lock this girl up and his whole family.
30:14
So relationship building is also a way of mitigating risk, at
30:18
least in this part of the world. So it is required.
30:20
If you go home crying, I tell your wife that my dear, they're
30:25
made off with 20 million naira should be asking you a question.
30:29
Who is this person? Where are they, what do they
30:32
live, what do they do? By the time your wife grew, you
30:35
will know that what you did was stupid.
30:37
They didn't build relationship. You want to go and drop money
30:42
now. The extent of the relationship
30:43
that needs to be built will also determine the number of touch
30:46
points that you have to do so. Can you see now that there's no
30:51
fixed number of steps? It is contextual.
30:54
The next time we hear an American say 12 to 30 something,
30:58
you can see it is contextual. Which country, which culture,
31:02
which product, which price. One moment, sorry about that,
31:10
another interruption. So I hope I've been able to make
31:14
my point that there's no fixed number.
31:17
It depends. And I've been able to explain
31:20
the number of things that you have to take into account.
31:23
So now if I stop here, I'll be leaving you confused.
31:26
I'll be leaving directly confused.
31:28
I believe in everybody confused. And whole point of this podcast
31:32
is not to confuse anybody, is to make progress, is to show the
31:36
way, is to shine the light. Because like the people who
31:41
mentioned last week who gave me reviews, the chief benefit of
31:44
dealing with me is I'm not going to leave you until we know what
31:48
the next step is. Because tomorrow morning, 8:00,
31:50
nine o'clock, I want to be able to tell you that this is what
31:52
you're supposed to do next. So let's move from a position of
31:59
obscurity and let's move into enlightenment.
32:02
How many touches do you need? The answer is it depends.
32:06
The answer is as many as necessary.
32:09
The answer is as many as needed. To establish a few things,
32:14
there's some things you need to establish.
32:16
We need to establish that these people have a need for what we
32:19
want. Sorry, a need for what we sell,
32:23
what we produce. If we have a want or a need for
32:26
it, that is good. First, we need to establish that
32:28
there's a need. Then we need to establish that
32:30
there's a good fit because sometimes they need your stuff.
32:34
But honestly speaking it they'll be better off served by looking
32:38
at, you know, some other solution, some other product.
32:40
So we need to establish there's a need.
32:42
We need to establish that there's a good fit and we need
32:44
to establish that it is financially viable.
32:48
Because I can tell you first hand, my first wedding I
32:53
collected 50,000 naira. Fulfilling that wedding,
32:56
executing that wedding, I spent 47,000 naira.
33:01
It was another waste of my time. It was good for getting
33:04
experience. And in fact, mom, she was even
33:06
abusing me back then. She was telling me you're having
33:08
better of just staying at home and just sending the buyer 5K.
33:11
Just saying you know what, let me just help you.
33:17
But we need to make sure that this thing is financially
33:18
viable. So if it takes you 20 touches to
33:23
figure out if there's a need, if there's a good fit and
33:26
everything is financially viable, then 20 touches is what
33:29
you need. If you need 100, then that is
33:33
what you need. Well, I was going to say if you
33:35
need 2000, I don't know if there's anybody who needs 2000,
33:38
but you get the point. Once you can establish these
33:41
things, there's a need, there's a good fit, it's financially
33:44
valuable, that's it. And you'll find that usually it
33:48
falls within a certain number for your product, you know, for
33:50
your service, for your industry, for your whatever.
33:53
So you need to have been selling for a while, You need to have
33:57
established a certain track record, a certain history.
34:00
It is then you can look back and say, you know what most of the
34:03
deals we close where they all give me hassle, they pay me
34:07
well, was a wonderful clients to work for.
34:11
Most of the times, you know, we'll meet, we make like 20
34:15
phone calls, we have like 5 meetings and then we have one
34:18
signing ceremony is then you will know.
34:23
So that's all. Basically, some of you when you
34:28
listen to this podcast will say how do I establish if there's a
34:30
need, if it's a good fit and if it's financially viable.
34:34
It's pretty simple. There are lots of tools.
34:38
They're called discovery frameworks, they're called
34:40
qualification frameworks. Whatever it is that they're
34:42
called. They are frameworks for how you
34:48
engage people in conversation so that you can figure out a couple
34:51
of things. Now, one simple, very basic,
34:55
rudimentary qualification framework is something that
34:57
Brian Tracy came up with in one of his old stuff where he would
35:00
talk about want, need, afford. Then there's some people who say
35:03
don't stop there at urgency. So as many conversations, as
35:08
many visits, as many phone calls, as many emails, as many
35:12
site visits or whatever that you need to establish, want, need,
35:16
afford an urgency. So whenever, if you're using
35:21
this simple qualification framework, whenever you're
35:23
touching somebody, by the way, I don't mean physically touch
35:25
somebody. You know, we're in business now.
35:26
Let's be mature here. So phone call, meeting,
35:31
WhatsApp, text, site visit, what else?
35:38
Evaluation, Whatever your focus should always be on establishing
35:44
want, need of word, urgency. Your first set of meetings, your
35:49
first set of phone calls, your first set of emails, your first
35:51
set of WhatsApp messages should just be built around how can I
35:54
help you Want to be sure you can help.
35:57
If you can help. If there's no need, there's no
36:00
interest. What are you doing there?
36:01
Fade. If there's an interest and you
36:04
can help. OK, continue.
36:05
The next set of touch points should be built around.
36:08
Is this what you actually need to solve your problem?
36:13
If they need something else to solve your problem and you don't
36:15
offer that thing, sorry to solve their problem and you don't
36:17
offer that thing, refer them to somebody else and collect your
36:20
Commission. Collect your 10%.
36:25
The next set of touches will be built around afford you.
36:29
Let them know. Difficult budget range for all
36:31
the things we've discussed are between XYZ and ABC.
36:34
Is that OK? Try and hear where they fall.
36:39
I keep saying it on the podcast and I'll repeat again.
36:42
The reason why this data is important is because if your
36:44
product is 1.5 where you're talking to somebody who thinks
36:47
750K is reasonable, there is no hope because the gap between
36:52
7:50 and 1.5 is times 2. That is too much.
36:56
But if your product is 1.5, you're talking to somebody who
36:58
thinks 1.3 is reasonable. OK, there's room.
37:01
You all can dance around the beat.
37:04
So you need to have that conversation.
37:06
So eventually your touch points will move to this is a typical
37:09
budget range. Is it OK for you?
37:12
Then we get down to urgency, urgencies.
37:15
When you start, your thought points are now directed towards
37:18
how soon do you want this thing? You have to ask that
37:20
conversation, you have to have that conversation.
37:23
Back with the Agusi example, even if the person does not ask
37:28
you how long to deliver from Anambra to Abuja, you the seller
37:34
of the Agusi, ask the person, OK, you see you're coming from
37:39
Abuja, OK, no problem, how soon do you want this Aguzzi
37:43
delivered? You, the seller, you should be
37:48
asking these questions. So whether is going to be one
37:55
touch or 50 touch touches, it depends.
37:57
But your first set of questions should be around how can I help
38:00
you? Next set of questions.
38:01
Is this what you really need to solve this problem?
38:04
Next set of touch points. The typical budget is between
38:07
this and this. For all the things we're
38:08
discussing so far. Is it cool?
38:10
And then the final touch, the final set, how soon do you want
38:13
this thing that is want, need afford an urgency?
38:16
Do they want this thing? Do they need this thing?
38:18
Can they afford this thing? Is there an essential urgency?
38:20
What is their timeline? How many steps it takes you to
38:24
establish that that is what you need?
38:28
And this is what I tell people now using these qualification
38:31
frameworks, if you cannot establish any of these criteria,
38:33
it is then you know you're wasting your time.
38:35
What do they want? You asking them question?
38:37
They're not using their mouths to say anything.
38:40
They're being shifting, OK? What do they need?
38:42
They're not saying anything. From today they will say this
38:44
thing. Tomorrow they will say that
38:45
thing. OK, what can they afford?
38:49
You've given them the basic options.
38:50
They're not putting their foot down anywhere.
38:52
They have not said it is closer to silver package.
38:55
They've not said it's closer to bronze package.
38:57
They've not said it's closer to copper package.
38:59
They've not said anything. Urgency.
39:03
How soon do they need this thing?
39:04
They're not telling you whether it's January for delivery or
39:07
December for delivery or August for delivery.
39:10
In that case, why are you wasting your time?
39:13
Based on the qualification framework you have, you've not
39:15
been able to establish anything at all.
39:17
In that case, move. You've done all you can do.
39:22
You've asked the questions, you've done the touch points.
39:24
You've tried your best, but there's nothing you can do.
39:28
You are your sales manager. You are your business partner.
39:30
By the time you sit down, you can't answer any of these
39:32
questions. Retire.
39:34
If you leave it, you can't do anything again.
39:37
You don't know what they want. You don't know what they need.
39:39
You don't know if they can afford it.
39:40
You don't know if there's any urgency.
39:41
You don't know their timelines. In that case, you don't do much
39:47
leave it freed. Another qualification, popular
39:52
band budget authority need timeline.
39:56
By the way, when I talk about these qualification frameworks
39:59
and I pick the ones that have 4 letters, you know, acronyms, 4
40:02
words. I'm not saying that the best.
40:04
I'm not saying if it's four. It's easy to remember because
40:06
there's some qualification frameworks that is like 16 words
40:09
or 16 steps. The problem with those ones is
40:11
who is going to remember 16 steps.
40:14
But this simple one that I've told you won't need afford
40:17
urgency. If you are a negotiator and
40:19
you're in the market in your head, you can be walking through
40:22
it. OK, I've asked questions around
40:23
want, I've asked questions around need.
40:26
I've asked questions around afford.
40:27
I'm now asking questions around urgency.
40:29
Have I missed anything easy to remember 4 steps 1234.
40:37
So the same with budget authority, need timeline, band
40:41
is just for easy to remember. So in typical fashion, if you're
40:46
using band as your qualification framework, then you start off
40:50
well, it doesn't have to be in any particular order, but let's
40:52
just continue in the order it is rating.
40:55
So budget, you have the question.
40:57
OK, Sir, Madam, typically the kind of things we're talking
41:00
about usually fall between this and this.
41:01
Is that budget range OK for you? For those of you who would like
41:06
to use band, the reason why I recommend it is because it is
41:08
nice for us to separate the serious people from the workout
41:11
pass from the beginning. So if in our first meeting you
41:14
can decide whether you can figure out whether you're with a
41:16
serious person or not, it will help you greatly.
41:20
So it's not a bad conversation to have a typically cause
41:26
between this and between that is now OK for you.
41:30
It's OK more continue. It's not OK or orga be stepping
41:34
or orga. I'll catch you another time and
41:37
then you move then authority. You need to have those questions
41:41
in your business, in your house, in your whatever who's
41:43
responsible for XYZ you need to ask them.
41:46
Sorry one moment. Sounds like the children are
41:48
killing themselves outside. Let me go and see what's up.
41:51
OK, I'm back. Sorry about that.
41:54
The kids are fighting over tablets outside.
41:58
Anyway, that's how it is normally now when you have kids
42:01
around. Total chaos, total mehem.
42:04
OK, now where was I? OK, I believe I was talking
42:08
about banned budget authority, need timeline, you know, as a
42:12
qualification framework. And I hope I pointed out that
42:17
there are other frameworks. You know, there's medic, there's
42:21
Medpic, there is like there are many, some 4 steps, some 5, some
42:28
10, some 12, some 16. I only talk about these ones
42:31
that have 4:00 because easy to understand, easy to remember
42:36
means easy to do also means you don't need to have it written
42:40
down. Because it's not going to be
42:42
every single time that we have your paper.
42:44
You have your checklist, you have your diary, you have your
42:46
whatever when you're talking to someone, because sometimes
42:48
you're just chilling. Now, you know, you are Madame,
42:50
you guys are just driving. You come out from the movie and
42:53
somebody just boss you, you know, wife puts it on speaker
42:55
and it's a business deal. So as you're driving, you know,
42:58
you have this mental checklist in your head.
43:00
You can't just be, you know, OK, what do they want?
43:03
I've asked them what do they need?
43:05
I've asked them what can they afford?
43:07
I've asked them urgency, When do they need it?
43:10
When do they want to deliver? I've asked them, you can now
43:13
say, OK, I believe I've got enough.
43:15
Hope you don't mind. I'm driving.
43:17
Just give me 20 minutes. When I reach out, you know, I'll
43:19
boss you back with a proposal, you know, sharp, sharp, easy to
43:23
remember. You don't need to tell wifey,
43:26
you know, I beg, bring my jotter, let me pull over.
43:29
Let me take this call, you know, all this kind of thing.
43:32
So in the beginning, all those five step, eight step, 12 step
43:38
ones sound very, very glamorous, but just leave those ones for
43:42
now. Simple, simple.
43:44
You come across any qualification or framework that
43:46
is, you know, 2 two step, 3 three-step.
43:48
Please start from there. Not because it's the best.
43:52
It'll be easy to remember, it'll be easy to do.
43:54
It'll also get you in the habit of guiding these, your
43:58
conversations, guiding these touch points when you're with
44:01
people. So you start with budget
44:07
listening stability laws between blah, blah, blah and so, so, so
44:10
are you cool with that? You hear where they fall?
44:12
You now ask them who's responsible for.
44:15
OK, let me see. Let me see now.
44:17
OK, so today now me and Momsey went out to go and buy a phone
44:20
case, because for phone the case is old and mom always likes
44:26
phone case to be fresh, you understand now?
44:29
So I went to one place in Marcudi, can't remember what the
44:32
place is called, but very, very nice place.
44:34
Very, very nice. All kinds of earphones there
44:38
'cause like my earphones are the Redmi, Redmi 66 space buds.
44:46
I mean, that's what they're called, something like that.
44:48
I used the budget version. So I went there.
44:50
Now I saw the professional versions, this professional
44:53
version of how much the guy called the figure.
44:56
I had to ask the guy again. I say Bros, did you say 19 or
45:00
did you say 90? The guy laughed.
45:03
He said OK, I said 9090. So yeah, now another bee was
45:10
passing in our top the babe and say I'm sorry chenery about this
45:14
hair for how much is it? And then she said 90.
45:16
I'm guess I told you now it is 90, not 19.
45:21
That's an earphone 90K. That's how to come, where to
45:24
come? Let's focus on Mummy first.
45:27
Anyway, so while we're there now I saw these wonderful speakers,
45:32
I can't remember what they're called.
45:33
Is it JBL or something? Massive big speaker.
45:36
It looks like cement blocks like 2 stuck together that big.
45:40
And the sound from the speakers. Mad, really, really mad.
45:44
So let's say now you have that kind of shop and that's what you
45:47
sell. You tell those speakers, now you
45:51
want to use band. The first thing you tell the guy
45:54
who is asking is, oh, we have different kinds of speakers In
45:57
this particular range. They cost anything between 50 to
46:01
120,000. Are you cool with that?
46:03
And the person says, yeah, sounds about fair.
46:06
What about this one in particular?
46:07
How much does it cost? OK, now you know you're talking
46:10
to a reasonable somebody. But in my own case, you see
46:13
where the guy called the figure and I say, is he 19 or did you
46:18
say 90? Is it 19 or 90?
46:22
When somebody responds like that, you now know that from a
46:25
business perspective, you have a very useless somebody in front
46:28
of you also because the gap between 19 and 19 is big.
46:34
So of course, the guy didn't even bring it up again, because
46:36
he knows that I may tell you whether a customer, you know,
46:38
come and go, you know, work I pass for the purpose of your
46:41
phone is not taking me seriously.
46:44
So it's the same thing, but your conversation.
46:48
The next thing authority who's responsible for XYZ?
46:51
You have to have that conversation or guide the
46:53
speaker that you want to buy. Who was he for?
46:55
Is he in the house or is it maybe like when you are Madam
46:59
outside throwing beach party or something?
47:01
You need to ask all these questions.
47:04
Usage authority, who is in charge, who is in control, how
47:08
you go use them. All these things you need to ask
47:13
because it'll help you to make the best recommendation.
47:16
So if they say, oh, that we like to go out a lot, sometimes we're
47:21
at the beach. If one particular model is not,
47:26
what do they call it? Weather, weather ceiling,
47:28
weather resistant. You don't be able to tell our
47:31
brush. No, not this one.
47:32
This one does not have weather ceiling.
47:34
If sand enter inside, it was spoiled.
47:37
If small drizzle enter inside, it was spoiled.
47:39
So brush buy this one instead, then we're done.
47:46
Authority, OK, we don't need kind of then timeline.
47:51
So is there any special occasion you're looking forward to?
47:54
Are you willing to pick this up now or you know, you have that
47:56
kind of question too. So whether you're having that
48:03
kind of conversation with someone who came into the store
48:05
or whether you start the conversation small and then you
48:08
collect the person's phone number and you guys talk again
48:10
later on on the phone, this is how you are guiding the touch
48:14
points. Have you had the budget
48:15
conversations, the money conversations?
48:17
Have you had the authority conversations?
48:19
Have you had the new conversations?
48:21
Have you had the timeline conversations?
48:24
When you can give an answer for all these questions, then you
48:29
have done enough touch points. It is now time to try and close
48:32
the deal. If you know what the budget is,
48:34
what the authority is, what the need is, you don't have a sense
48:37
of timeline, probably not a good time to try and close.
48:40
You know, touch up small, follow up small, follow through small.
48:46
When you get a sense of the timelines in here, I've done
48:48
enough. Try to close.
48:52
The same with want, need, afford an urgency.
48:55
If you don't know what they want, you don't know what they
48:57
need. You don't know if they can
48:58
afford it. You don't have a sense of
49:00
urgency. Even if you've spoken to them
49:01
for 50 times, you're not ready to try and close the deal.
49:04
In fact, because you've spoken to them for 50 times and you
49:07
don't have the answer of any of these questions, I guess it's
49:10
time to give up. But you're your business
49:13
partner, you're your line manager.
49:14
If you guys sit down and you can answer the question, this is
49:17
what they want, this is what they need, this is what they can
49:19
afford, this is a sense of urgency, this is their timeline.
49:22
Good. You probably know enough to try
49:25
and close even if you've only had two conversations with them.
49:31
So that's it. Like I said, these are some of
49:35
the things I'm going to be talking about in particular now.
49:39
We're going to be ironing out in fine detail come the 12th of
49:44
January 2026 all the way to the 23rd.
49:49
So there's Downley and a couple of people that I'm chatting with
49:52
right now who are going to be in the room.
49:54
You want to meet interesting people.
49:56
You want to find out how other Nigerian people are making money
49:59
because I will never forget the day when as the teacher in front
50:03
of the class I was teaching, one of my students annual turnover
50:10
was annual turnover I think was 20 something million.
50:17
I know 20 cent 27,000,000 is not big.
50:19
The thing that all shocked me was what the guy sells is he
50:22
sells maggots as you know, animal feed and stuff like that.
50:27
And in my mind, I'm wondering you just like it was not my own
50:31
setup. So I couldn't call the guy
50:32
outside and start game question because was another person I was
50:35
organizing the thing that you know, they just brought me in
50:38
and you know, they said to me later.
50:40
So I was not in charge. But honestly speaking, honestly
50:42
asking Margaret, 20 something million how the people in this
50:49
country who are doing big things in ways you've never heard about
50:53
it before. The people that are producing
50:55
audio book. There are people that are
50:56
selling Margaret. There's a woman that I know how
51:00
old is she selling algae? I say how do you even produce
51:03
algae? How do you even say algae?
51:05
Are you going to be cutting the algae in the microscope 111 or?
51:11
Anyway, Sir, you guys should be in the room at some of these
51:14
things that people making money in ways that you never heard of
51:17
before. So if you'd like to take part in
51:21
the training, come the 12th of January 2026, call, send me a
51:26
WhatsApp message, Send me a text message on 0806466 2140.
51:36
Remember, for our collection money, I'll be one.
51:39
I'll have a conversation with you because I need to know who
51:42
are you, what's your business about, what problems are you
51:45
facing? What goes the hour for 2026 so
51:48
that by the time we start on the 12th of January, I can tell you
51:54
that these are the specific ways 1234 Now by the time we finish
51:59
with this training, this is what we are going to achieve or this
52:02
is what we're going to start moving or please bear in mind
52:05
I've been saying it for the last two weeks.
52:08
This is not for lazy people. Don't come up and ask me about
52:11
guarantee. There is no guarantee.
52:13
It depends on you. The best I can do is I can show
52:17
you the way like Moses. There's the promised land.
52:22
The rest is up to you. OK, What did Joshua say?
52:27
Joshua said, As for me, at my house, we shall serve the Lord.
52:30
Just for a point. I say, look, there's a promised
52:32
land. The rest is up to you.
52:34
If you want to advance, it's up to you.
52:36
If you want to go back to Egypt, it's up to you.
52:39
So to ask me about guarantee, there is no guarantee.
52:41
You are the guarantee. We will sit down, we will have
52:46
these difficult conversations, and we'll figure out what needs
52:48
to be done next. Whether the thing gets done is
52:51
entirely up to you. You are the guarantee, not me.
52:57
But whether you take part in the training or not, it's not a
52:59
problem. I'd like to meet you anyway
53:01
because I like meeting cool and interesting people like Downey.
53:06
In fact, I'm looking forward to see what other interesting names
53:10
I can come across. Oh, by the way, Downey was named
53:13
after the first Chief Justice of Nigeria.
53:16
And as a law student, I'm surprised it's something I
53:19
didn't know. But yeah, that's it.
53:21
You learn new things every day. That's the beauty of sales.
53:23
That's the beauty of business, interesting people every single
53:27
day you learn something new every single day.
53:30
So reach out to be a part of the program on the 12th to the 23rd
53:34
of January 2026 or just connect to say what's up, say hello or
53:41
to have your questions, queries or comments answered.
53:43
So thank you very much for your time and attention.
53:45
I will catch you all some other time.