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The 25 Questions That Make Amazon Rufus Push Your Product Higher · eCommerce Podcast

0:06
Well, hello and welcome to the Ecommerce Podcast. My name is Matt Edmundson, and it
0:10
is great to be with you on what can only be described as a very sunny day here in
0:16
England. And it's very exciting that it's sunny. Maybe summer is on its way after
0:20
all. Who knew? Uh, it's great to be with you. If this is your first time on the, uh,
0:24
with us on the show, a very warm welcome to you. We talk about all things
0:27
e-commerce. Uh, and if you're a regular to the show, welcome back. And thank you for
0:32
all the kind comments you send me on LinkedIn. Uh, genuinely love them. Uh, it's
0:36
always nice to hear from the listeners. So if you haven't done so already, go, go
0:40
connect with me on LinkedIn. Let me know how you're getting on with the show.
0:42
Anything you want us to talk about, I would love to hear from you. Uh, and that's
0:46
basically the intro to the show. So without further ado, uh, let's bring onto the
0:51
screen David. David, all the— wow, you're kind of from here, but you're kind of from
0:57
there at the same time, right?
1:00
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So originally from Scotland, but currently
1:04
living in Thailand, in a very, very hot Thailand. Yeah. Let me tell you,
1:10
the UV index is something like 14, 15. You get burned at 9 AM in the
1:16
morning. You can't even go for a nice morning walk. My wife actually went for a walk
1:21
this morning. She goes very early, like 7, and she was like, no, I'm going to have
1:27
to start going at 6 now because the UV is so high.
1:30
That's crazy. It's not a problem you normally have in Scotland.
1:34
No, no, typically. Yeah, well, let's not even talk about it.
1:40
Yeah, no, I was in Scotland this weekend or last week, actually, the whole of last
1:45
week, and the weather was glorious. Um, didn't rain once, the sunshine was
1:49
beautiful, slight chill in the air. Loved it, absolutely loved it. I don't know if
1:53
we hit the right week, but it was definitely a good week to go to St. Andrews. Um,
1:58
but yeah, tell us a little bit, David, about, uh, what you do in sunny Thailand.
2:05
Yeah, um, location's got nothing to do with it, with the job, but, uh,
2:12
we, we basically My past has been to help Amazon sellers
2:18
essentially sell more and help them sell more in the e-commerce space.
2:24
And I've worked with thousands of brands across the world, mostly from the US
2:30
and the UK, but also from Europe, from Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand,
2:35
Canada, of course. So that's been my last couple of years.
2:41
Recently, we've been working on new and exciting things to do with AI
2:46
and optimisation for Amazon specifically and e-commerce
2:52
for creatives and visuals and all the weird and wonderful things you can now do
2:58
with AI for e-commerce. So excited to speak about that.
3:02
That was good. Well, it's good to have you. Thanks for joining us from Thailand. Are
3:05
you doing that digital nomad thing?
3:08
Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. Yeah. Hopefully for a couple of years and then
3:13
probably coming back to Europe to start a family or something like that.
3:17
Yeah. See how it goes. My son's about to do it. He's heading off to Bali in
3:20
September. So, um, I'm sort of vicariously living my life through my son right now.
3:25
It's very exciting. Maybe one day we'll get a chance to sort of hit the trails, but,
3:31
um, it's great to have you on the show. So let's talk about Amazon. Right now.
3:35
Amazon is, uh, the untamed beast, as I like to call it, in many ways. Um, and
3:41
we've talked a fair bit about Amazon on the show, so I, I do like to keep coming
3:45
back to it, mainly, David, if I'm honest, because I sell on Amazon and I would like
3:49
to sell more. And so I'm always happy to talk to people that can tell me how to
3:53
achieve that goal. Um, you've worked, you said, with thousands of people around the
3:58
world. If you had a magic wand right, that you could wave to solve the
4:03
key problem that all the brands that you've worked with have, what would that
4:08
problem be?
4:11
Yeah, very good question. Um, what would that problem be?
4:18
Does it— I mean, it doesn't have to be realistic, right?
4:22
No, it's just, I just— one of those things, if you wish you could sell— you wish you
4:26
could solve, you could solve it with your magic wand.
4:29
I wish, I wish we had a lot more data or clear data from Amazon. That's
4:35
what I really wish in terms of how the algorithm works and so on. So nobody really
4:40
knows how the algorithm works apart from the people that made it, but we do see the
4:46
symptoms of changing certain things so we can kind of understand how it works. And
4:52
at the end of the day, the algorithm is you know, more simple than, than we like to
4:56
make it, which is basically the algorithm is trying to make Amazon as much money as,
5:01
as they can get out of it. So once we understand their goal,
5:07
if we align our goals with theirs, then everyone's going to be happy and you're
5:12
going to be selling more as well at the end of the day.
5:15
Yeah, I, I— that makes a lot of sense. It does make a lot of sense. So they
5:19
obviously want to make a lot more money, we want to make a lot more money. So how do
5:22
we go about doing that? Um, because I know you've got a framework, haven't you, that
5:26
you use?
5:28
For sure. Uh, and these are the things that I've seen day in and day out,
5:34
you know, consulting for and analysing. I've analysed tens of thousands of products.
5:40
Um, but there's a couple of key metrics that we need to follow. There's, there's
5:45
many layers to Amazon. There's many layers in terms of product market fit and
5:51
cross-selling and upselling and so on, but the pillars of Amazon
5:57
and e-commerce in general is traffic, clicks, and conversions.
6:04
So, this is the framework I like to walk through because you could have the best
6:08
offer, you could be selling Lamborghinis for £10, but the reality is that if it's
6:14
buried at the bottom of the Amazon algorithm and nobody sees your product. You can
6:19
have amazing images, you can have an amazing offer, people are just not going to
6:22
buy. And this is why the traffic is the most important and that is the first area I
6:28
like to discuss. Now Amazon has done something very interesting in
6:34
the last, last year or two, which is to launch Rufus, which is basically,
6:40
if you've ever used Rufus before, it's basically their chat GPT within Amazon so
6:45
that instead of searching for football, you search for football in their chat. Now,
6:51
the cool thing about this chatbot is that it basically asks you, you know, what kind
6:57
of football do you want? Do you want it blue, red? What kind of size? So it really
7:02
understands what you're prioritising, what you're looking for. You're looking for
7:06
something budget, something more premium. and then it recommends you products. So
7:12
this is something that's brand new from Amazon, and there's already tens of millions
7:18
of users. We know this, Amazon gave us the data. There's already tens of millions of
7:24
users using Rufus already. Most of it is in the US because they launched Rufus in
7:29
the US first, but it's coming across Europe and so on. It's already live in Europe.
7:36
It's just not used as much. The question is, how can we get our
7:42
product to show up more frequently in the chatbot and to
7:48
show up higher than other products, to have higher priority?
7:54
And it's a very simple, it's a very simple strategy here. The way
8:00
AI works in general is that it's all based on data. So if you have the way
8:06
the AI is trained, even if you ask ChatGPT, you can have 10 documents,
8:12
for example, saying one thing. The more documentation it has on a specific thing, or
8:18
the more information it has on a specific thing, the more likely it is to bias
8:22
towards that answer. Even if that answer is right, wrong, doesn't matter.
8:28
But that's how the AI works. So, what we're trying to do with
8:34
Rufus is basically understand the top 20 to 25 questions a customer has. You know,
8:40
what colour is it? What size is it? What is it made for? What are some of the key
8:44
benefits? What makes this different than other products? What certification it has?
8:49
So, every single product has different questions. Some might have a specific set of
8:55
questions, other a different set. And what we need to do is firstly understand what
9:00
are those top 25 questions, and then we need to answer those questions in
9:06
priority order. So the questions that are the most important, we want to answer in
9:12
more frequently. For example, we want to add it in the title and the bullet points
9:16
and maybe the product images. Questions that are less important or
9:22
less likely to get us traffic, we can deprioritise because we have limited amount of
9:27
space. We've got X amount of characters and X amount of pixels on the platform.
9:34
So, that's what we're trying to do. And the way the Rufus algorithm works is by
9:38
analysing title, bullet points, attributes, like, you know, the fields at the
9:43
bottom. It also looks at product images. So, this is something that's very important.
9:49
Because we can also answer questions of the product images, and it also looks at
9:53
reviews and the Q&A sections. So we have a lot of
9:59
areas to play with, and based off these 25 questions, we need to answer them as, as
10:05
frequently as we can. And this is half of the discoverability,
10:11
right? This is half of the traffic question. How do we get more traffic, more people
10:15
to see the prompt. The second part—
10:19
so go ahead, carry on. Yeah, yeah, if we're halfway through, let's go to the second
10:22
point in a second. I've got some questions if I can, because I'm, I'm avidly taking
10:26
notes here, David. Um, how do we discover, or how do we figure out
10:33
the top 25 questions? So you, you mentioned about find these questions and then
10:37
answer them in priority order, which makes total sense to me. It's going back to the
10:41
old school blogging, you know, they ask, you answer kind of thing. Um, but how do we
10:45
find out what those questions are? Is that a platform-specific thing with Amazon? Is
10:50
it more generalized than that? I'm curious how you do it.
10:53
Very good question. Um, we actually have a free audit that you can actually run to
10:59
see your top 25 questions. So if you've got an Amazon product that you want to check
11:04
out, if you go to app.selluna.ai/audit, that's, uh, Selluna,
11:10
S-E-L-L-A. Una.ai/audit, you can plug your
11:15
URL and you can get a free audit and you can actually see your top 25 questions.
11:19
Alternatively, what you can do is you can take, you know, the title, the bullet
11:23
points of your product, put in AI and try to ask it what the top 25 questions would
11:29
be. Yeah. Or you can sit there and, you know, manually write it down based off your
11:33
knowledge of the product. That's how I would do it.
11:37
Yeah, fair enough. We'll of course link to that tool in the show notes if you want
11:42
to go try that out. That tool's free, right?
11:45
Correct. Yeah. So you can go in there and you'll be able to— the AI will actually
11:50
analyse every part of your listing, including the images, including click-through
11:54
rate, conversion rate, and ROAS.
11:57
Wonderful. Wonderful. Good. Sorry, I interrupted you. Part 2.
12:03
Part 2 is this SEO, which is the kind of historical way of getting traffic,
12:09
and it's still very much relevant. Most of the sales are still happening through
12:14
SEO, which is search engine optimisation. This is basically people who search
12:19
football in the search bar on Amazon. When they do that, they're gonna see
12:25
tens and hundreds of, of products. On the search page. Now,
12:31
SEO and search engine optimisation is mainly based on keywords. So let's say you're
12:37
selling a blue football, you would want to target blue football keywords. So for
12:42
example, you know, blue football for kids, blue football for
12:48
adults, and so on and so on, or football gifts, for example. Those are keywords that
12:53
you want to target. And the way SEO works is from all the
12:59
research and all the testings that we've done on thousands and thousands of
13:03
listings, you want to be focusing on volume of and frequency
13:10
of those keywords. For example, we target on a listing in the
13:15
title and the bullet points in the backend and the Premium A+ Content on Amazon.
13:22
We target over 80 keywords just on the front end. This is the text you can see
13:28
in exact form. And we target those keywords on average 3 times. So we're not just
13:34
going to say blue football once, we're going to say it on average 3 times in the
13:38
listing. So you want breadth, but you also want frequency, especially for
13:43
your top keywords, your most important keywords. In fact, we, even have listings
13:49
with the main keyword over 35, 40 times. So for example, you
13:55
can have that blue football keyword 40 times on listing. And this is
14:01
not the end-all and be-all of success on Amazon. This is just the groundwork.
14:07
If you don't have these, uh, groundwork and foundations put in, it's going to be
14:12
very difficult to get sustainable traction, because this is the first thing that's
14:18
flagging the algorithm to put you on these pages. For example, put you on the page
14:23
with, with Blue Football.
14:25
Yeah, I guess one question here would be, David, I listening to you talk and it all
14:30
sounds very sensible. It all sounds very Google 2012 in many ways.
14:33
The—
14:35
do you get penalized for keyword stuffing, which is what they used to call it?
14:40
Yes, from our testing, and we do continuous testing, no, right?
14:47
We, we don't see— we see you, you will get penalized when it comes to—
14:54
and this is the nuance, right? There's obviously a nuance that we need to— and a
14:58
balance we need to strike, especially when you're selling more premium products. If
15:02
you've got a title that looks very keyword-stuffed and bullet points that look
15:07
keywords very keyword stuffed, from a customer point of view, you might lose some
15:13
conversions because it can look like a Chinese seller or foreign seller who doesn't,
15:17
doesn't understand.
15:18
Yeah.
15:19
However, from our testing, we've seen that drop in the conversions to be
15:24
negligible compared to the growth in traffic. So for example, you
15:30
might, you might lose 1 or 2% or, or decrease 1 or 2% in
15:36
conversion rate, but your traffic is going up by 10% or 20%. Yeah. Which, which
15:42
outweighs that loss. Yeah, significantly. So at the end of the day,
15:48
it is, is very beneficial.
15:51
It's a really interesting point, isn't it? And, and again, the keywords, um, that
15:56
I'm— I mean, it's interesting you said that you have 80 keywords per product. You
16:00
mentioned them at least 3 times. And the key, key the key keywords. I've just
16:04
realized what I've just said. Um, the key keywords, you're mentioning a lot more,
16:10
um, in the content, uh, in the front end and in the back end. Um, which
16:16
I assume is something you're getting AI to both help you with the keyword research
16:21
and also write the content. Would that be right?
16:25
That's correct. Yeah. So on the same app.selluna.ai/audit, you'll actually also see
16:30
your top 30 keywords and how well they're optimised. Or how well they're added
16:36
in your listing. So you'll be able to see that. And within the app, you can actually
16:41
optimise your title, your bullet points, and the keywords with Selluna itself, with
16:47
the tool. But that just does the title, bullet points,
16:53
and backend keywords. When you create an A+ Content with the tool or the app,
16:59
it also creates the headline and the boxes for the A+ content that are
17:05
already Rufus and SEO optimised. Because you don't want just the title
17:11
bullet points and backend keywords SEO optimised, you want everything, including the
17:15
premium A+ content, which is a big area, big real estate for,
17:21
for keywords and for Rufus.
17:23
Okay. And do you find there's a tension, uh, between creating content for Rufus and
17:29
creating content for the the sort of the Amazon SEO?
17:33
Somewhat, yes. You have— Rufus is going to take up a certain amount of space that
17:40
you still have keywords in there, but it does take some of that real estate
17:46
away. But it is a balance. Yeah, we have to do both.
17:50
So yeah, there is a bit of a tension perhaps, but And are you
17:56
finding then, like we're finding at the moment with SEO, the majority still, people
18:01
still going to Google, still typing in the old-fashioned way, right? Because it's,
18:04
it's, I think it's such an ingrained habit. More and more people are going to AI.
18:09
Uh, so I'm assuming the same principle is true on Amazon, that most people will
18:14
still use the search bar like they've always done. Uh, more and more people are
18:18
going to Rufus as they try and understand what it is and see the power of it, maybe.
18:23
Um, what, what, what do you see the split there? Are we
18:29
still predominantly doing search and a few of us are doing Rufus, or is the
18:35
switch much bigger than we anticipated? I don't know if you know.
18:41
Yes. Yeah. Some, some data is, is saying that up to 40% of sales in Amazon US is
18:46
happening through Rufus.
18:48
Wow.
18:48
Or by customers using Rufus at some point in that journey, which is, which is very
18:54
big. Uh, I would contest that. I would probably say it's a bit less. I would
18:59
probably estimate something like 20%, um, but it's only going to grow. That's the
19:04
reality of it. As more and more people use, start using AI, it's going to grow more
19:09
and more. And there's also another aspect of this, which is the future. Yeah,
19:14
because the reality is that the future is not just, uh, what you have
19:20
right now with Rufus, but the future is looking at, uh, agentic shopping
19:26
and Amazon actually connecting to other tools. Um, and obviously
19:32
all that information and all of that purchasing decision is going to be based on the
19:37
Rufus data that they've already collected through their platform. So there's
19:43
multiple layers that we'll be able to stack in the future on top of this Rufus,
19:48
which makes it very valuable to get a big share of the
19:54
traffic through Rufus now while it's still less competitive. Because if you
20:00
look at SEO, what happened with SEO was 2018, 2017, 2016, Nobody was
20:06
doing SEO. People were just popping one image, short title, and it was selling
20:12
like hot cupcakes. However, nowadays everyone's doing
20:18
SEO, so it's become very competitive and very difficult to get any traction. But the
20:23
people who had traction in 2018, if they— I
20:29
mean, I've I've spoken with people who have not touched their listing since 2010,
20:35
right? And just because they had, uh, so much
20:41
authority in 2010, 2011, and over all, you know,
20:46
two decades of selling on Amazon has allowed them to not have to do too much
20:52
to keep that authority. It doesn't happen for everyone.
20:56
Yeah.
20:56
But it does happen for some. So what I'm saying is get in while there's few
21:02
competitors doing it, and then you'll be able to defend your position rather than
21:06
fight for it.
21:07
Yeah, no, fair enough. And time-wise, uh, like,
21:14
I suppose an example would be one of the websites that we did 5 years ago. In the
21:19
last year, it's ranked number 2 on Google, right, behind the main
21:25
sort of brand, ranked number 2 after 5 years. Um, sometimes SEO
21:31
seems to take a long time, sometimes you can do it quicker. Um, what's it like on
21:35
Amazon?
21:37
Amazon indexes within about 30 days. Indexing meaning
21:44
it basically refreshes and it, it knows what your updated listing is
21:50
However, once we get on to the next points, which are click-through rate and
21:55
conversion rate, you will be able to better understand how this works. Because it is
22:00
a long-term SEO, and Rufus less so, because it's
22:06
once the AI knows the questions, it knows the questions. But SEO is something that's
22:11
more long-term. So you're looking at 3 to 6 months to kind of go from not much
22:17
to something that's 80% mature, right? So you're— if you don't keep touching it, in
22:23
3 to 6 months is basically at the peak of what's— what it's going to be.
22:28
Okay, fair enough. And is it a case of actually, if you're competing in a market
22:34
that is saturated by quite a few big players, it's going to be quite hard to, to
22:38
climb those rankings?
22:40
Um, yes, of course, of course. Uh, not just
22:46
because of those big guys, but you know, if there's someone— if the bestseller is
22:52
doing, let's say, a million dollars a month and they've been there for a long time,
22:58
the likelihood is that position 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7— you know, if it was just those
23:03
guys, okay, they can have position 1, we can have position 2. Which is, by the way,
23:09
not a big difference in sales. If you have, you know, really the
23:15
top 10 positions on a page pretty much have the same traffic
23:22
depending on if it's desktop. On desktop, because it all shows on one page, it's
23:26
essentially— you're not getting much benefit by being number 1. On mobile, of
23:32
course, you are because you have to scroll. Uh, so yeah, a more mature category, a
23:36
more competitive category is going to be harder to, uh, to break into for sure.
23:40
But I guess this is why, um, Rufus is, is your friend right now, uh, if
23:46
you optimise with Rufus in mind, right? Because I imagine a lot of people aren't.
23:51
Um, like we've been doing some research just on sites from an SEO point of view who
23:57
are geared up for AI. And it's minuscule,
24:03
uh, you know, the amount of people that are geared up for AI search on their sites.
24:07
Um, but I mean, that's another story. So I imagine that's where the opportunity
24:10
lies, you know. If SEO has become complex, AI search— the, the quantity of search in
24:15
that area is not big, but it's a lot less competitive, and you can start to build
24:19
some traction in that, I would have thought.
24:22
Completely. And, and the, the big thing is also the the long-term strategy, which
24:28
is to be able to defend that position on Rufus, is going to be much easier than it
24:34
is to do this optimisation in 6 months from now. And
24:39
the growth curves for things like Rufus and AI are, you know,
24:45
hockey sticks. So the quicker you get in, the much, much better it's going to be.
24:51
Yeah. Okay, so traffic, um, clicks.
24:57
Awesome. Um, now let's say you've got amazing Rufus optimisation and amazing SEO.
25:03
You're showing up higher on pages, you're showing up more in the chat. People still
25:08
need to click on your product, otherwise they're not going to be able to buy, right?
25:13
And 80% of the click-through rate is driven by the main
25:19
image. If you look at a search page, the main image takes up, you know, most of the
25:23
space or the spaces for products. You've got the title, the reviews, but the main
25:28
image is the main thing we can attack to improve. And
25:35
not doing at least 2 or 3 A/B tests for a product that's doing, let's say, over
25:40
$1,000 per month in sales is criminal in 2026. Not doing at least 2
25:46
or 3 A/B tests is criminal. And here's why I say this. I'm going to give you some
25:51
checklists of things you want to look out for in terms of A/B testing. But here's
25:56
how the algorithm works. Let's say that we have one main image and we have another
26:01
one that does 10% more clicks, right? Which is very reasonable growth, very
26:07
reasonable test, relatively easy to get. 10% more clicks is, is relatively easy to
26:12
get. That is 10% more sales instantly, right? As soon as you upload that
26:18
image that does better, instantly, you know, 10% more sales. However, on the long
26:24
term, looking at 12 months, looking at 24 months from now, that could mean the
26:29
difference between, you know, $50,000 in monthly sales and $40,000 in monthly sales.
26:35
And why do I say that? Because that extra boost in clicks and conversions
26:42
is going to tell the algorithm that your product is better than it was before or
26:48
better than the competition. So what's going to happen is because they see your
26:52
product performing better, they're actually going to give you more traffic.
26:56
Yeah.
26:57
And that extra traffic is going to drive even more sales past the 10% increase
27:03
from, from the clicks because the Amazon algorithm is essentially trying to put
27:09
the right product in front of the right customer. And the way they know they put the
27:14
right product in front of the right customer is whether they clicked and converted,
27:19
because that's what makes the money. So again, we have to go back to what makes
27:22
Amazon money. And this is why we need to look at every metric
27:28
and make sure they're all optimised, because if you have a terrible main image I
27:34
mean, they're going to try to put your product higher and show it more often, but if
27:39
people don't click on it, they're going to not do that for long.
27:42
Yeah, yeah, right. That's fair enough. They call it sales velocity, don't they? Is a
27:47
phrase I hear banded about. I guess what is working then on this main image? You
27:52
know, I, I don't know. Well, I mean, I do know, but, you know, are there rules that
27:58
Amazon have on, on what that image should be? Can those rules be broken? Do you go
28:03
completely mad and have animated GIFs with bright yellow backgrounds? I mean, what
28:07
are you seeing working here?
28:10
Very good question. Yes, there are rules. General rules are it should not be
28:14
misleading and it should be on a white background. Now, the misleading part,
28:21
for sure, you shouldn't make something that looks misleading because that's in the
28:27
spirit of the rules. However, the white background, adding extra things on there
28:33
is really, you know, how smart you are in terms of not getting flagged by their AI.
28:38
It's as simple as that. And even if you do get flagged, it's not a big deal. You can
28:42
upload a new image and it's fine. So we can bend the rules somewhat as long as it's
28:47
not misleading. A couple of checklists. You need to—
28:53
most of the traffic is on mobile. So you actually need to put that image on, on the
28:58
product or put it on your phone and zoom out a bit because it's really kind of like
29:04
the, the size of two thumbs. So just make it the size of two thumbs and see, is that
29:08
image attractive? Is it going to get me to click? If not, what do you need to
29:13
change? Some common rules: make the product as big as possible in the
29:19
image, try to cover as many pixels as possible and make sure you have decent
29:24
contrast. You know, if you've got a white product, it's going to be difficult to
29:28
make it stand out against a white background. So make sure you add heavier shadows
29:34
on the back so that it pops the product out. Another very important thing, like I
29:39
mentioned before, the blue football. Let's say you've got a blue football. What we
29:44
do and, and what we've seen to work really well is, for example, to add a
29:50
label that is kind of either stuck on or to the side of the football that's
29:56
connected that says the main keyword. So for example, you would say on a label,
30:02
blue football.
30:04
Yeah.
30:04
Now why would you do that? It's obviously a blue football. When people are on Amazon
30:10
and they scroll through products and products and products and they see your blue
30:16
football, but they can also read that it's a blue football in the image,
30:19
subconsciously they're more likely to click. Even if that's 5% more likely to click,
30:25
it's very significant. Another thing you can do to make a product more attractive is
30:31
add any of the ingredients. If you're selling supplements or oils or beauty products
30:35
or anything like that that has ingredients, you can add some of those flowers in,
30:40
you can add some of those ingredients in to make it pop even more, make it more
30:45
attractive, to add some colour perhaps.
30:49
But it has to be— the label has to be connected to the product. It can't be a
30:53
standalone thing, correct?
30:55
Yeah, otherwise it will get flagged by their AI. Yeah,
31:01
but yeah, yeah, so these are some of the things you can do tomorrow, right?
31:05
Yeah, yeah. And I can guarantee fixes, aren't they?
31:09
Relatively, yes, yeah. And you A/B test it. I can't tell you what's going to work
31:13
best, but you A/B test 2 or 3 main images and you're going to
31:18
get, you know, I can pretty much guarantee if you've not done it before, you'll get
31:23
at least 10-20% more clicks.
31:26
And how long do you— so let's say I create 3 different images, right, based off of
31:30
this conversation, and I create the 3 different images. I put image number 1 on?
31:35
Does Amazon have an A/B test feature, or do I, like, put image number 1 on for a
31:38
week and then image number 2 for another week? How would you do that?
31:44
Depending on your traffic and whether you've got Brand Registry, you'll have
31:50
A/B testing directly from Amazon, where you can put 2 images, test them out. You
31:55
want to test them out really for— depends on how much traffic you have, but at least
31:59
4 weeks, I would say. If you're doing under $1,000 in sales, it's
32:04
going to be difficult to get any real data,
32:11
and it might even be disabled. You need a certain amount of traffic for A/B testing
32:16
to be enabled for your product. I believe it's 1,000 people monthly
32:22
page visits, but you can actually search for, you know,
32:28
A/B testing in the settings on, on Seller Central and find and see if you've got
32:33
that available.
32:34
Yeah, fair enough. Very good. And if you don't have it available, I assume you can
32:38
just manually change the images?
32:40
Yeah, you can do. Um, it's gonna be hard because there's many other variables
32:45
outside of your main image, you know, like time of the year, if it's a seasonal
32:49
product, and so on. But if the differences are big enough, like, you
32:55
know, 20% more clicks, you'll be able to tell that it's probably because of that,
32:59
that main image.
33:01
Yeah, very good. Okay, so clicks, and finally conversion.
33:08
Yeah, on the conversion side, of course, this is something that everyone
33:11
understands, um, but let's say we've got amazing clicks now, amazing
33:17
SEO, amazing roofers. We still need to get people to convert, and there's— this is
33:23
the most or the biggest area where we can actually
33:29
work on, because you've got the main image, which also affects conversions, but
33:33
you've got 7 images within Amazon. You can add the video. I don't recommend doing it
33:39
at the beginning, uh, because most people don't actually click on videos. It's only
33:43
about 2% of people who click on videos. So don't worry about not having a video,
33:49
but there's a couple of must-haves. You need to have at least 5 product images. You
33:54
need to have premium A+ content, at least 5 banners of premium A+ content, which
34:00
goes at the bottom of your— it's basically like a nice
34:06
visual product description.
34:07
Yeah.
34:08
And something that almost everyone misses is a brand story. So that goes
34:15
above or below your product description, which is the Premium A+ Content, but it's
34:20
something completely separate. But again, if you search for these things and what
34:24
they are, you'll be able to visually see them. But these are the things that are
34:28
going to get people to convert. If you're selling a premium product, you need to
34:32
have premium branding. I see this a lot. People come to me and say, hey, you know,
34:37
we think we're not selling enough because we're selling at 50% more than the
34:42
competition. And I go, where is your branding? We've got,
34:48
we've got some of our, some of our clients, they are selling 5 to 6
34:54
times more than the average and they still have 20% market share in their market.
35:01
We've got a Doodlebrush client they're selling the product for £60
35:06
and the competition is selling it for £12, and they've got the biggest market share,
35:11
right? And the reason they've got that is because we have done very, very good
35:17
branding. This is why Nike, Apple can charge more than the competition, because they
35:22
have very good branding. So your branding needs to speak for the, the company. For
35:28
the product images, they're really the most important, more important than premium.
35:33
Although everything is needed, product images is where you want to answer those top
35:38
5 to 10 questions, right? Just like we did it for Rufus, Rufus optimisation,
35:44
which by the way, the Rufus also checks the images, the top 5 questions. And you
35:49
should really spend, spend your, you know, most of your time actually thinking about
35:55
what are the top 5 questions and research them. Because you want to answer those in
36:00
priority order. For example, if you're selling a premium product, one
36:07
of your most important images there needs to be us versus them, right?
36:12
Why are you charging me $60 when someone else is charging me $30, right?
36:19
That's the first question they're gonna have when they land on your product.
36:21
Yeah, yeah.
36:22
So you need to answer that question, you need to justify it. 'If you can't, you
36:26
probably need a different product.' But most of the time you've got justifications
36:30
for it, right? Whether it's better quality and so on and so on. So you need to think
36:34
of those top 5 questions and every question needs to serve a purpose and it needs to
36:39
answer a question. Because a confused buyer is not buyer. They're not gonna buy.
36:45
What's gonna happen is they're gonna scroll to look for more info and they're gonna
36:49
get bombarded with another 20 products by the competitors and they're just gonna
36:53
click on that.
36:55
Yeah, that's super powerful. I love that. Uh, I think it's
37:00
great, but I'm also, David, aware of time, so, uh, I, I, I've got questions, but
37:06
we'll have to park them, uh, for now. Um, if people want to— maybe they've got
37:10
questions of people listening to the show, like, David, I want you to answer this
37:13
question for me. How do they reach out to you? How do they connect with you? What's
37:16
the best way to do that?
37:19
The best way to do that is either through my email david@selluna.ai. That's
37:25
S-E-L-L-U-N-A dot A-I. But what I recommend
37:31
everyone does is if you're selling on Amazon, you need to go to
37:35
app.selluna.ai or just go to selluna.ai or search it up on Google.
37:42
And on the homepage, you'll see, you'll be able to actually audit your own listing
37:46
and see how well you're doing. So it'll give you a score for Rufus, for SEO, for
37:51
click-through rates and conversion rates. So everything we walk through, you'll be
37:55
able to see exactly what you should be doing and how you should be doing it. And you
38:00
can also start a free trial and just generate some things for your listing for free
38:05
and see what, you know, get some main image ideas or product images or Premium A+
38:10
Content.
38:12
Fantastic. Where does the name Selluna come from?
38:16
Uh, it comes from seller, you know, Amazon seller, um, and
38:22
Luna, which is the moon. So we've got like a lunar theme, uh, for, for the app.
38:28
Yeah.
38:28
So you've amalgamated two words together.
38:31
Correct.
38:32
Very good. Uh, David, listen, um, genuinely a real treat talking to you, man. Really
38:37
appreciate you coming on the show. Uh, I've got lots of notes. Uh, going to be
38:41
talking to our team again tomorrow. They hate it when I get lots of notes because we
38:44
just go and have— right, this is what I learned. What are we going to do? Um, but
38:49
listen, genuinely brilliant. Uh, thank you for coming on the show. Really appreciate
38:53
it. Really learning from your expertise. For those that have stayed to the end, uh,
38:58
in the last sort of 2 minutes that we've got together, I would love for you to give
39:02
us your top tip. Um, I mean, we've talked about traffic, we've talked about
39:08
conversion and clicks. I appreciate I've got those the wrong way around. But
39:14
if someone is sort of stagnated, I suppose,
39:20
with Amazon, or maybe even not really started yet on Amazon, what's your best value
39:25
tip that you can give them? The best value you've got, the microphone for the next 2
39:28
minutes is yours. What's your answer?
39:32
Yes, one thing I tell everyone is that the, the text
39:38
speaks to the algorithm and the images speak to the customer. So when you're
39:44
optimising the title, the bullet points, think of it as I'm speaking to the
39:48
algorithm because no person actually reads that. Uh, people, when they land on
39:53
Amazon on a listing, they don't care about you know, your bullet points. They don't,
39:59
they really don't. Nobody, nobody reads that, unfortunately, anymore. Nobody reads
40:03
in general. But the images need to speak to the customer because,
40:09
because of social media and Shorts and TikTok and so on. People are very quick to
40:15
decide. They want things easy. They want things in a visual format. So
40:21
make sure that your images are not full of text. They need to answer questions for
40:27
sure, but you can't write paragraphs. And they need to be visually understandable.
40:33
So if you've got a 3-step process on how to apply, you know, let's say a face mask,
40:39
you can, you can say like step 1, step 2, step 3, but on the left side also add the
40:44
icons, right? So if step 1 is mix, actually add the mixing bowl with a mix. If
40:50
step 2 is, I don't know, let it rest for 3 minutes, you can put a 3-minute and then
40:56
put it on your face. You can put it— so you need to have a very good user
41:02
experience when people land on there. So this is, this is my, this is my top tip.
41:08
I like that. Text is for the algorithm, images are for the people. I'm going to
41:11
remember that. That's very, very sticky. David, thanks, man. Really appreciate you.
41:16
Appreciate you coming on, uh, It's been fantastic.
41:20
My pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you so much, Matt.
41:22
It's been great. I love your energy, dude. I really do. So thank you, listener, for
41:26
joining us this week on the E-Commerce Podcast and yet another great episode. If you
41:31
haven't done so already, make sure you like and subscribe and do all of that good
41:34
stuff. All of the notes from today's conversation with David, all of the links will
41:38
be in the show notes, which you can get just by scrolling down on your podcast app.
41:43
You can get by looking at the YouTube description if you're watching this. And of
41:46
course, if you're signed up to the email, they'll be in your inbox. And of course
41:50
everything will be on the website ecommercepodcast.net. Just go and find David on
41:55
there and you'll find all the links that you could possibly want. But yeah, that's
42:00
it from me. That's it from David. Thank you so much for joining us this week. Have a
42:04
phenomenal week wherever you are in the world. I'll see you next time.
42:09
Bye for now.