Latest / Marketing Shed / Danone Just Bought Huel — Will Its Loyal Customers Walk Away?
Transcript
- Warren Fiveash: Hello Paul, how are you doing? Paul Duxbury: Very well, thank you. As the sun is shining the world looks beautiful. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, it's glorious out there, isn't it, at the moment? She's good, long night. Paul Duxbury: It is, it is. Is it warm in your shed? Warren Fiveash: It's getting warmer, it gets warmer in the afternoons when the sun kind of beats down on it then it's bit toasty. Paul Duxbury: Yes, yes, I'm the same. Come about two o'clock if you're not careful. You have to open the door or else too much. Warren Fiveash: Or get an aircon unit which I have got when needed because I can't open the door if the kids are in the garden unfortunately. Paul Duxbury: Really? ⁓ I see, I didn't realise you had all the mod cons. ⁓ I've got aircon jealousy now. Warren Fiveash: Got to that in the marketing shed, you know. You had a week? Paul Duxbury: Yes, yes, absolutely right, absolutely right. I've had a very good week, know, been as ever, it's been varied and busy and interesting, ⁓ I started the mini MBA ⁓ the last week. Warren Fiveash: did you? I forgot you were doing that. Yeah? Paul Duxbury: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I started it and it has been, ⁓ been very good. It gets a very good billing and far so good. And what's been quite is it's made me think about the difference between being right and being heard, which is something I And the trap is that in order ⁓ do marketing right and in order to get good marketing that delivers good results, need organization to be on board. But to get the organization on board, you need to do good marketing. And so there's a bit of chicken and egg going on and it's a bit messy. And at of day, I suppose one has to be pragmatic. And ⁓ through the mini I'm kind of reinforcing what good marketing looks like. But how do you then keep the integrity of good marketing whilst being pragmatic about what the organisation is prepared to at any given point in time? ⁓ ⁓ just felt super relevant because I'm involved in separate pieces of work for large companies where their marketing teams want to improve their influencing skills, their ability to stakeholder manage. And it's really quite interesting to see that you've got the situation where marketers feel they've got the skills, they've got a lot to add, but if they can't engage with the business through those skills, then the power of those skills is diminished. So yeah, sorry, it's a long answer to a short question, but that's been something that's been very much on my mind the past week. Warren Fiveash: No! This means you're talking about influencing later today, Paul, when I have podcasts? are you saving that for another week? ⁓ Paul Duxbury: I'm saving that for another week, yeah, but that will appear. There's plenty more to talk about, no How about you? What's been on your mind? Warren Fiveash: Well, firstly, that does sound like a familiar story, all those things you said, I can relate to a lot of that, I think that's very true. So looking forward to hearing more on that in weeks to come. For me this week, well, I have been suffering with not being able to, I'm struggling to see you on the screen at the moment, Paul, in absolute clarity, because my eyesight's been kind of fading me as I get older a little bit, over the last year, few months, unfortunately. been deteriorating gradually as it does as you get into your 40s. So I to the Specsavers advertising and I booked ⁓ another this week ⁓ and need glasses Paul. So ⁓ I be on this podcast next week with glasses because I've got all the derma there and they will be coming. ⁓ Paul Duxbury: Do you? Well, that means you'll look even even more handsome and dare I say intelligent. Warren Fiveash: More distinguished and yeah, add to my my brand of kind of trying to look intelligent, I guess but it was Paul Duxbury: What have you gone for? Have you gone for pink frames, example, really colourful frames or? Warren Fiveash: I attempted for the blue rim, of, you know, trying to look like I worked for an agency, marketer type vibe, but actually, you I settled for something fairly, generic, but nice. So, but you know what I was impressed with, you know, it's 10 years ago as well, since I went to have eyes tested, which is far too long. think, you know, Trump was never to be seen in power then, ⁓ and Brexit a thing yet. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Warren Fiveash: and spurs were actually the top of the table not the bottom so lots changed since then. But actually, is like, it is impressive actually the amount of people within the shop are the opticians that you in the customer services, it really is excellent. Not that can compare to any other opticians because I haven't been to any but yeah it really has come on a bit. ⁓ Paul Duxbury: Yes, yes. Well, Specsavers, I'm a big fan, I'm a fellow customer, but what's the one big thing Specsavers do wrong? And by the way, every other doctor surgery in the country. Warren Fiveash: Hello? Well, do know what my thought was when I came out? I don't know if it's a thing you're thinking of, but I thought at the end, my only thing was at the end when I'm trying to choose my glasses, I was surprised there was nothing extra actually to help you do that. I was actually surprised, given technology and what you've got now and augmented reality and AI, I thought there might be some sort, maybe I'm getting a bit ahead of myself here, but some sort of tool to help you get a glass in the place. Paul Duxbury: Well, that's, I think you've got a point. It's not what I was thinking. What's the first thing they ask you when you walk in the store? Warren Fiveash: Yeah. ⁓ testing I asked me I can't actually remember, Puck. Paul Duxbury: Data birth. Warren Fiveash: Hi, Kate. Yeah? Paul Duxbury: Every time you walk in, you say, hello, I'd like to ask about my prescription. I'd like to ask about my order. What's your date of birth? Which immediately asks you, a very personal piece of information, and B, means they don't ask for your name. So I don't like that. So I always say to them, well, before I tell you that, my name's Paul, and like to write down my date of birth because I don't want to broadcast my personal information to the other people in the store. Warren Fiveash: Mmm. Very true. Do know what? I booked it online and then I can't actually remember what they asked me. They probably did ask my date of birth when I went in and then when I went back in to choose the glasses because I didn't want to make a rash decision, I probably had to take my wife in with me to look and the GDK. They did ask my date of birth, I remember. Yeah, you're right. Good. Paul Duxbury: Yeah, so when you listen to this, Specsavers, brilliant store, brilliant concepts, brilliant service, but change that one thing and you will massively improve your customer experience. What do you reckon you would buy if you're confronted with a family pack of Sorin Maltloaf for £1.75 or a regular pack for a pound? Warren Fiveash: There was something else I was gonna ask you, actually, before we move on to what you've seen this week. So, last week, we talked about price of malt life, Well, it caused a bit of a stir on our shorts, didn't it, on YouTube? Big debate. I think it's probably, well, it is. It is our most commented video. There's 10 comments, which is quite something for us, isn't it? Paul Duxbury: It did. Warren Fiveash: But I wondered what you thought of the comments and what your reflections on Paul Duxbury: Yeah, I love them. thought clearly we touched a topic that people are interested in, which is how things are priced at the point of sale. And I the comments were very perceptive. On the one hand, we've got some people who really good at maths, which is good. And equally, I think the was that what people want is clarity. So whether you quote your price in price per ton, you know, tons, grams or kilograms use the same units. think it's something that bothers all of us. And I think goes to a, or points to a underlying piece, which is we want clarity and transparency in the way prices are presented to us. And if we don't get that, we start to feel like is being eroded. So yeah, thought those comments were great. And incidentally, ⁓ I... Because actually if you do the maths you find out that the regular smaller pack ⁓ is £3.85 per ⁓ kilogram ⁓ and the pack at that moment was £4.49 per kilogram. popped into Waitrose evening and the one pound pack of malt loaf from Morrison's in Waitrose, guess much that'll cost you? Incorrect. 80 % uplift. £1.80. And if I was running weight throws, I'd be a bit worried because that is an 80 % uplift is more than enough to justify going to a different shop. Warren Fiveash: Really? Yeah, it is that's it's not you're not talking a few pennies there are you? It's really quite a big difference. Actually one of the comments picked out something similar didn't they with um I think they saw a spotty nasta a duck double pack of biscuits labelled as bog off buy one get one free for two pounds when each single pack was 99p so yeah. So I'll tell anyone if we do do another short Paul Duxbury: Yes. Whoops. Warren Fiveash: of this then send in your inconsistencies and keep an eye out for our inconsistencies in shop we'd love to hear them. Paul Duxbury: Bog off. Yes, agreed. So Mr. Five Ash, what have you seen this week in the world of marketing? Warren Fiveash: know I'm a big football fan as you, Paul, and... Paul Duxbury: Well, you support spurs, don't you? I'm not sure if that's the same thing, is it? Warren Fiveash: It's not a lot of football going on there is there? Yeah I do unfortunately, very sadly. Actually this plays in quite nicely to that because it's about nostalgia and I have been looking back at videos of yesteryear just to keep myself sane and happy but because the current team aren't doing that for me but yeah I've been looking at football nostalgia because La Liga had a weekend this weekend with a where I think it was 38 of the 42 teams in the Liga all wore kind of retro football shirts. Not just that they did that, I think the refs did it. They had a retro football from yesteryear. I think, I'm guessing the nineties, eighties, nineties. They were using graphics on the TV that were from the old days. I think they're the first to do it out of all the five major leagues. And I think it's part of a wider campaign about engagement between the generations which started in February. So they're trying to kind of show how football makes a big impact in kind of crossing communities essentially. But it got me a little bit worried. I feel like we've reached kind of peak football nostalgia with that because you know retro shirts are massive, right? I think when I watched the Tottenham Europa final last year, a lot of people in the crowd were wearing shirts from the 90s rather than today's shirt. So it is a massive business for a football club, right, to market these kind of retro shirts and to lean into it. it just worries me about the future, I guess. And Gen Z actually, just to make a point, Gen Z actually are really into this as well. They're kind of, this is a thing called vicarious nostalgia. it's an ear you did not personally experience, but you wear the of, the fashion from that period, essentially. And actually what they've done is they've mixed up retro and today some of these commercial deals and the fashion that you see. So you'll see kind of a twist on kind of something, you know, a retro track suit and brought into the modern day essentially. And so this has become quite a big business. But when you're leaning so into nostalgia, it does make you wonder actually about the future. Actually, are we just repeating stuff that's been done before? What does that really mean for marketing? I don't know what about that Paul. Paul Duxbury: Well, it sounds exactly like that. I are you suggesting that in 20 years time, having paid 120 quid for a shirt this year, I'm going to pay 250 quid in 20 years time to get the same shirt and pretend it's a good thing. I mean, if they're interested in nostalgia, how about being nostalgic for the days when you could go to a football match and actually get in, watch the match, maybe have a cup of tea or a pint? and a pie and still emerge with half of your bank account intact. So I think nostalgia has its place, but let's be nostalgic about the things that matter as opposed to the things that don't like ill-fitting, made sports shirts. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah, I think there's something in that, isn't there? yeah, there's nothing mentioned about retro ticket prices from the dollar. Yeah, yeah. Paul Duxbury: Exactly, exactly. So maybe getting rid of VAR might be a useful bit of nostalgia. Surprise, surprise, the football associations are finally getting their heads around the fact it's a bad thing. ⁓ But think sounds like marketing fluff, as far as I'm concerned. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. marketing well I read something that said that people ⁓ Gen Z are worried about the future the future looks so bleak at the moment actually or leaning into the past when things weren't as bleak and so that's why this kind of nostalgic things coming from but yeah it's done it's been done it feels like here in some respects to kind of take advantage of that isn't it so we'll see we'll see feel like nostalgia marketing is everywhere at the moment. ⁓ look forwards. What you then? What about you then Paul? What have you seen? Paul Duxbury: Not a fan. Not a fan. Well, I've been mulling over Huel, the complete brand, which was sold to Danone about two weeks ago, to be fair, to Danone a reputed fee or price a billion US dollars. Now I've a stake in ⁓ the game here, at least thought I did, because I've been a loyal customer. significant customer to Hewell since 2017, so nearly 10 years. having seen the business sold was a pretty, pretty stark reminder that never been an owner in that business in a financial way. I've been a believer, you know, I've believed in what that business does, what it offers, complete nutrition. And having seen that belief butt up against this is how much the business is worth and it's now been sold and the reality of corporate life, it feels like something important has been lost. And I think the question isn't whether Danone as the new owners have to fix that, because they don't. They could just ignore it and life will go on. They'll market-heal to a bigger audience. some of the original fans like me will become a decreasing of the franchise. But I think the real question is whether Danone are smart enough to want to do something to fix that ⁓ disconnect people like myself may well be feeling. And look, they've got the data, it's primarily... or it's grown at least from direct to consumer routes. So they have got oodles of data about who's buying the product, are, what they're like, how much they're buying, how loyal they've been. And I think they need to use that data to talk to their customers. Now, Huel team have been super busy on LinkedIn, rightly so, because they've achieved something tremendous, building that business from scratch in 10 years to the value of a billion dollars. which i a phenomenal entrepreneurial achievement. But I think they need to ⁓ busy with their customers now and to talk about why this is meaningful and how their loyal customers can still have a role to play as that business goes through its next phase of life under the ownership of Danone. Warren Fiveash: Mm. Yeah, that's really interesting. Paul, do you think, how quickly, obviously we're marketers, so we're kind of across and we see these things, we're quite interested in them. How much do you think the Huel customer base is aware currently of the takeover or the don't know, buyout? And are you seeing the impact of it already through the comms that you're getting? Paul Duxbury: I think they're very well aware of it because their customer base is unusually loyal ⁓ and they have grown through, it's often be described as ⁓ a cult, ⁓ gives you an indication of the sort of emotional investment their customers make in the product. ⁓ Have I seen that reflected in the communications from Huell? No. So they emailed customers when the sale went through to say it had gone through. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: But that was about it. And if you compare that communication with the very liberal quantity of communication through LinkedIn, for example, ⁓ you know, one outweighs the other massively. ⁓ I understand why. And as I say, I don't think Danone, Stroke, Huell have to do anything, but I there's an opportunity there for them to continue to leverage the strength of the Warren Fiveash: Yeah. about. Paul Duxbury: customer base they've built. And they want to do that, they've got the data. So ⁓ can do that very effectively if they can get their heads around the messaging. Warren Fiveash: It's a really good point because there are, you know, a few brands like that that exist on there. think Gym Shop probably a quite similar kind of brand has been built up from the ground and it's got a very loyal support and actually can't underestimate that with those kind of brands. really, it plays a really important part in the loyalty of your existing customers. You've kind of been there from the start, gone on that journey with them and now it's been taken, you know, that's been taken over. There's something there you can't lose, right? Because that's where it started. That's the foundations it was built from. So we'll have to watch this space and keep track of that one. Maybe we can revisit it. Paul Duxbury: Yes, yes, absolutely. So thank you for listening to my semi rant on that topic. ⁓ The week ahead, what's happening for you, Warren? Warren Fiveash: No. Well, other than hoping for a miracle for Spurs against Brighton on Saturday, am fairly standard week, but I did announce this week that I am a judge for the Marketing Week Awards. So looking forward to that, which will be in June. So that's good. So it's a bit of a way off, not this week, I should have done it as an exclusive shouldn't I for this and announced it. I know everyone would be really interested in that, our viewers, I've got 10 viewers, but yeah, no, it's something I always enjoy doing. came up last week I was asked to do it and looking forward to doing that again. ⁓ that's me this week, all about you Paul. Paul Duxbury: very nice, very nice. I look forward to hearing how that goes. Yeah, week I'm super excited. preparing for a visit to Tilburg University ⁓ next week when I will be joining one of their international programmes, which is focusing on the application of AI in marketing to some challenges that KLM, ⁓ the Dutch airline, Dutch KLM, have given to their team. So I'll be... Warren Fiveash: Nice. Paul Duxbury: speaking with that team of students as they work on that assignment. I think hosting a YouTube Q session as well. ⁓ So I think that's going to be fascinating because they really, having seen some students recently in Lisbon do a great job on the Edcom adventure, I'm going to be really interested to see what this bunch of students make of this KLM challenge. Warren Fiveash: No. Sounds like an exciting week. Paul, look forward to hearing more about that. Are you going to be dialing in for many of our next week? Are you going to be in your shed? Paul Duxbury: Now that's a very good question because in between now and going to Tilburg I will be in Brittany for a short break. So I may be dialling in from Brittany Ferries as I cross the English Channel. watch this space and I will let you know what the Wi-Fi is like. Warren Fiveash: ⁓ really? think anytime you're going on a trip abroad, I you've got to try and better your background each time. So yeah, if you can do it, on a ferry as you're going across the channel, I don't think that's going to be a hard one to beat, but yeah, I forward to seeing that. Paul Duxbury: Everything is possible. I will see you in a week. Warren Fiveash: Paul, have a one.