Latest / The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast / Building Resilience: Why Everyone's Path Through Hardship Is Different | Dr. Petrina Yemane

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Building Resilience: Why Everyone's Path Through Hardship Is Different | Dr. Petrina Yemane · The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast

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It's actually a whole process of resilience.
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It's not just, being knocked down,
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get back up. It's a whole way of living.
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When we have our problems, sometimes we say,
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I don't know how I'm gonna get out of this.
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We underestimate ourselves, and then before we know it,
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problems fixed.
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When something traumatic or something difficult happens,
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we're trying to make sense of what's going on.
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The more you know, the better you can fix the problem.
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Spirituality is not religion. What it looks like for each person is what
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is your morals?
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What do you feel is fair and just and right?
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That is our spiritual part.
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Hey folks, welcome to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
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My name is Rick Meekins. I'm gonna be your host,
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and in our studio, we have Dr.
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Petrina Yemane How are you, ma'am?
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Hello, hi.
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We're so glad you're here. This is gonna be a great show.
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Now, we typically I know that we typically talk about entrepreneurship,
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but this this is an important topic.
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We're gonna be talking about resilience and we're gonna talking about it from
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a a process perspective rather than you know just a just a cool idea
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of something that we should work on.
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Now, audience, if you haven't done it already,
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I'd be so grateful if you would like,
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subscribe, and hit the bell so that you can get updates every time we drop
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a new episode. And without further ado,
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let's get to it. Dr. Yemane,
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Would you like to introduce yourself,
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who you are, what you do and why you do what you do?
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Yes, I am Dr. Yemane and I am a therapist,
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licensed professional counselor in Virginia and Maryland.
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And I did my research, my dissertation in resilience,
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advanced human behavior. Yeah.
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Wow, wow, wow. And
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it's it's such an it's such an interesting topic.
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I mean, you know, as as entrepreneurs,
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I mean, this is the thing that,
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you know, we're kind of known for.
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You know, we get knocked down,
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we get up again, we get knocked down,
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we get up again. And, you know,
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I I think that for, you know, a lot of us if we've been doing it for a while,
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you know, it just becomes, you know,
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almost second nature. But, you know,
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there's pr there's there's there's trauma that's involved sometimes.
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~
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Yeah, yeah,
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And so what I'd love what I'd love to do is I'd love to first and foremost,
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help us help us understand, you know,
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what what healthy resilience looks like.
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Sure, sure. I mean what you just described is what we all have been thinking,
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you know, in one dimension, you know,
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it's really one dimensional. But in my research for my dissertation,
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I found out that It's actually a whole process of resilience.
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It's not just, you know, being knocked down,
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get back up. It's not just the glass half full It's not just pivoting,
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you know. it's more than that.
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It's a whole way of living.
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I would like to get more into it,
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but it's definitely something that is tangible and it's a discovery that
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I made that we don't realize that we're actually living it.
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You know, so this is why I feel like it's important to kind of access
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it because we don't realize one that it is a process that's going on like throughout
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Mm-hmm.
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time and we don't realize that we're able to actually access it.
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It's like actually in us to be more resilient.
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Yeah.
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Hm.
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What what do you mean when you say it's it's in us to be more resilient?
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Yeah, you know, we have our problems,
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right? And When we have our problems,
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sometimes we say, I don't know how I'm gonna get out of this.
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I we bargain with God, the universe,
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which is like, I don't I don't know how we're gonna I don't know how
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I'm gonna do it. I don't feel I have the capability to do it.
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We underestimate ourselves, and then before we know it,
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problems fixed. Sometimes
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Yeah.
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it's not the way we expected. sometimes it is the way we expected.
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It things go the way we hoped.
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But we look back and we go, how do we get here?
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Right? with my clients I often
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Ask them how did you resolve it?
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And they go, I don't know. And I usually say,
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and it's my trademark, and this time will be no different,
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right? So they don't realize what they did,
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but
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Mm-hmm.
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I discovered the actual steps process that's happening throughout their time.
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So when they look back and you say there's this gap,
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I don't know what I did. I talked to a friend,
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maybe, you know, I slept, you know,
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I slept on it, you know, and then I
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Yeah.
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got the answer. but we don't realize that it's actually.
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what's happening in that gap and that was my discovery of the resilience process.
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Can you can you give me a a specific example,
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a specific story with with that?
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I I I get I get we I get what you're saying.
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but I I feel like there's there's you know,
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in order to make it more tangible,
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do you do you have an example?
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Yeah. Yeah. So, I guess I'll use let me ask you a question.
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And and it's it's it's a pretty simple one.
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what is your go to when you have a problem?
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What is the go to thing that you do?
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In in terms of in terms of what?
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Yeah, if you have a problem, like what
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Yeah.
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is the first thing that you want to do?
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By nature.
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~ I
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w I I wanna I probably wanna understand why the problem exists.
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Very good, right. And so that's interesting.
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So the process is made up of five factors.
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I call it HSSSS H S S S S S HSSSS So it's the process actually
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is hardships explained, strategic view,
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which is yours, you just described.
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it is self-care, it is
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strengths and coping. And so through these factors we actually access resilience
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more than others. So I'm hardships explained.
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I need to tell my story. I need
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Mm-hmm.
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to call someone on the phone and say,
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make sense of this. I need to hear your story.
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I need to
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Mm-hmm.
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hear motivational podcast like this one.
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Mm-hmm.
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Like you know, like the relentless pursuit of winning.
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I need to
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Just talk. that is my resilience process.
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I'm accessing my resilience. For you as strategic view,
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you need to see like, okay, what happened in the past?
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Get let me get a bigger picture.
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to move forward, what works? Let's see what will
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Mm-hmm.
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work. I need a vision. I need a goal to get to where I need to be to get
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Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
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out of this problem. So
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yeah, it depends on one of the five factors that makes us resilient.
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Okay. Okay. So so we're so we essentially have five different approaches that
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we take as as a first step when when something happens.
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Yes. Yes. We're doing all
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five, but there's usually one we're more towards.
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Like some people are quick. They're like problem solving,
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right?
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Yeah.
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And that one is survival, survival and recovery.
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Right. Some people are like, I need to go exercise,
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I need to go on a trail walk, I need you know,
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and those
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Yeah.
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people, they're like strengths and coping,
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right?
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Yeah.
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some people there immediately is self care which has to do with spirituality
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and our emotions and so
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Yeah.
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they'll go to church or they'll tap into their spirituality to resolve
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the problem or self care literally they self an an analyze themselves of how they
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Yeah.
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fix the problem and they'll, you know,
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I need to go to the spa, you know,
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I need s I need some self care.
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so everyone
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Treats their problems differently through those five.
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And we've been doing it this whole time,
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but it's never been labeled. And this was the discovery.
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It's interesting. you know, I'm I'm kinda I'm kinda thinking through that.
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because my next question was going to be,
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is it different depending on, I guess,
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the severity of the problem? But,
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you know, even with in this, you know,
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my experience, you know, it's like even with something that is more catastrophic,
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you know, I s I still step back,
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you know, and try to figure it out.
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And then I start thinking about,
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you know, what those what those next steps forward are g are is is gonna be.
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That's that's really interesting.
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~ is that how most people
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Yes, yes. And
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yes, and so what what's the beauty of my discovery is that I did
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the research over during COVID-19 pandemic.
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That is the most challenging adverse situation we could have ever gone through.
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And we proved individually that we could be resilient.
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But more so as the whole world,
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the whole community, the whole community of the world proved that at
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the same time we could be resilient.
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That was such a beautiful thing to me,
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with all of our differences, you know,
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Yeah.
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with all of our, you know, fractions and dissensions,
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that we came together at a point in time in history where we did the most amazing,
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miraculous thing, where it didn't matter who you were,
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you know, what you believed in,
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all of us together.
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were unified and resilient. And this is how I found the HSSSS,
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you know. So yeah, it could be applied to anything because it's actually
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all this time we were doing bottom up before the pandemic.
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Mm-hmm.
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We were doing like
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a bottom up kind of information,
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but
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Mm.
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we learned how to be resilient from top down and what other spotlight
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we could have ever experienced that except through the pandemic as horrible
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as it was. And
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Mm-hmm.
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so there's also steps in what you're saying.
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I actually have these steps that I that I wrote out so like there's eight
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I call it the R eight. So you were talking about steps like you have
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Yeah. Yeah.
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the big picture. That's actually
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true.
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So you're proving my research because reflect is the first R,
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right? Reflect. So you gain c clarity,
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you evaluate, you get the big picture.
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Then we resource that's strengthening,
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that's with
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Right.
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meditating self-care. Then we do reframe.
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We reframe the situation, we get perspective,
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and then resilient factors come into play,
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which is our coping, our spirituality,
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metaphors, things that help us.
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Then routine. We develop a routine and we'll see all these things.
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We're like, yes, that's true. then we reassess.
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We go back to the beginning, what where you started with reflecting and saying,
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Okay, is this now working what I'm doing?
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And we start tweaking. That's the reassessing.
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Mm-hmm.
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And then we resolve the situation.
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That means it is we put something into play,
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we start adapting, we do mind shift about the situation,
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we
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We continually problem solve and then we reconnect.
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We tell everybody,
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Mm.
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this is what worked for me. This is how I got through it,
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mhm, mhm, mhm, mhm
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right? Let me help you
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now. And so that's the R eight.
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So there's a process
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Mm.
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and then there's steps. Amazing,
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Mm-hmm. It
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right? How we are.
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it is, it is. I mean, I'm you know,
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I'm I'm running, you know, running different scenarios through my mind.
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Yeah, I was thinking about like a so so let me let me back up a little bit.
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So if I'm understanding you correctly,
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everyone has, you know, resilience characteristics.
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They have different ways, everyone has the ability,
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I should say, to be resilient.
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Yes, yes.
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But I th
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I think the other thing that we're not saying is that there's not
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one way better than another. Is is that accurate or is there
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No, process is like so it's more like you know,
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I always give Elisabeth Kübler-Ross the credit for because she is the person,
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you know, who discovered the five stages of grief,
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for example. Before
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Uh-huh.
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that, before she discovered the stages,
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if you ask somebody like what what's resilience,
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if you ask someone what's grief.
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What did they say? They said, one dimensional.
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Someone dies,
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Yeah.
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and you're sad, and that was
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Yeah.
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it. But she discovered a process of grief,
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Right.
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which is stages of grief, which
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Right.
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is right, we know it's like bargaining,
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depression, acceptance, you know,
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the whole five. And
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Yeah, yeah.
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now, you know, it's not where one is better than the other,
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it's like it's which one, each one of us,
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identifies to, you know? So we go through all five stages,
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all five steps of grief. It's the same thing.
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It's like going through the five stages of resilience when it comes to the process.
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So if if I understand the five stages of grief properly,
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I mean, we we have the ability to get stuck like in in any one of those stages.
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You know, we can be angry forever,
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Right, yeah.
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we can, you know, be
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in denial forever, you know, or whatever that's going to be.
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Do do we see do you see a similar pattern with resilience?
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Do we you know, do you see people,
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you know, staying in self care and just
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you know, denying that they can ever get out of their situation again
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or how does that work? And and really,
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I guess the other
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Mm-hmm.
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piece to that is what's the benefit of of really understanding,
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you know, what that process looks like at the individual level?
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Mm-hmm. So time is the most important factor.
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Time keeps us going. Time pushes us forward.
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So we can stay stuck in something like grief,
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but time pushes us forward, you know.
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Mm-hmm.
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The difference between resilience is that it's more positive,
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you know, it's more it's a tool of empowerment.
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Mm.
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more
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so. it's it's not where you can get stuck,
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but you use all it's more like the love languages,
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I would think, the five love languages,
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right? We we I we understand love in those five different ways.
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Right.
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which is of course like physical touch,
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words of affirmation, quality time,
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and then the other two, right?
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But
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Mm-hmm.
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We identify we we can do all of them,
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but we usually identify more to one.
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Mm-hmm. Yeah.
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And
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so it's not getting stuck, but it's more of your your preference
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or your personality, like you said.
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You you're not you're not stuck in strategic view where you get the big picture.
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You use
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Right.
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all of those that I mentioned of HSSSS,
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use all of those in the process.
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For survival and self-care and coping skills.
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Use all of those, but that's your go-to one.
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Right. So
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Right, right, right.
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for me, like I said, it's me is storytelling,
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hardships explained. I have to tell my story,
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and that helps me to become unstuck.
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So the process continues. This is why the problem eventually gets solved.
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And this is what I want to say,
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the the
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about your question, which is fascinating,
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is 100% of the time I discovered,
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and we say there's nothing 100%,
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right? But I think there is. 100% of the time you will always get
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out of your problem through using HSSSS.
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Mm. Mm.
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You will always
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get out of your problem, no matter what.
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Think about it. The only way you don't is if you're not living.
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Right, right, right, right, right.
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As long as you're
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living, you will get out of that problem.
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Because think of every single problem you've ever had.
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You go, I don't know how I'm gonna get out of this,
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and then you get out of it. And you look back and go,
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wow, I didn't think I would. Every single one.
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It didn't turn out the way you thought,
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maybe, but you got out
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Yeah, yeah.
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of it. Or it did turn out exactly the way you want.
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But
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Yeah.
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you will always get out of it,
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no matter what. And so the process will keep you going.
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Time does heal and it will keep you propelling.
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And you will always learn a lesson and that's the breadcrumbs of how
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you know you were resilient. You always learn a lesson and there
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was always a benefit, no matter how bad the situation.
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Okay. Okay. I'm I'm I'm hearing
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Yeah.
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I'm I'm might be a little bit confused.
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I'm hearing two different things.
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So you said you were talking about the process,
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but you I understood those to be characteristics.
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So I I'm more of a strategic thinker,
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so I I approach things
15:47
Yeah.
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that way. But we also talked about the stages,
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which is what I was referring to as as process.
15:54
~
15:54
Mm-hmm.
15:55
and so I'm I'm curious with the process,
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the what did you call it? The R eight was it?
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the R eight are like steps you can take towards resilience.
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The steps to take. So so my
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Yeah.
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question is is are are those steps that we take,
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is that based on the individual,
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like where we started from, or is that,
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you know, something that everybody experiences?
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good question. So the process is what everybody experiences.
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Okay.
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The steps, they came about because I asked really subjective participants
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in the study. I asked them what do they think is resilient.
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They they are known to be very resilient people.
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Yeah.
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and so they
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outlined in the study what they thought was most resilient.
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I collected it all and I saw a common thread that you can
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use as a prevention. So as a prevention,
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Mm-hmm. As a prevention.
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yeah. Mm-hmm. So if you know you have,
16:56
if you know you want to become resilient,
16:58
like more resilient and you're going
16:59
Mm-hmm.
17:00
through a situation, instead of you know waiting for the process to happen,
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you could be more proactive and actually do the steps that they said
17:08
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
17:08
make someone resilient. So
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it starts with getting a big picture,
17:14
you do a routine. So the the R8 kind of explains it.
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And I kind of explain it in my book also,
17:17
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
17:18
~
17:19
so that people could understand it a little better.
17:22
So
17:22
Mm.
17:23
the stages are something you could actually do,
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but the the HSSSS is the process is just how we are in life.
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It's
17:31
Mm-hmm.
17:31
it's explaining what happens when we're actually going through
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A traumatic time.
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Mm, mm, mm, mm.
17:39
It's more
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subconscious too. But now the steps actually helps you to be more
17:45
in control of your resilience that you can actually start putting into practice.
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So if you have an issue, you're like,
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okay, before I had to wait to go through the process.
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Now I could just say, okay, no,
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this is what helps me to get through a situation.
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So then I will put these steps into practice,
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which is R8.
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So so the so the steps, so when we as we become better at being resilient,
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then we just take those steps faster because we kind of,
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you know, almost muscle
18:12
You can.
18:13
member, we we we know what to do when something happens.
18:15
Yes,
18:16
you can. And honestly, the my research is two years old,
18:20
right? So no one had ever discovered it before.
18:23
So we're learning more and more.
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So your questions are very good because I have some questions too,
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you know. I'm I just discovered it.
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It's a new discovery. I'm really trying to get it out there.
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This is why I'm on the
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Yeah.
18:34
podcast. Because other people are going to learn more too,
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and then they're going to also
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learn more about the stages and the more we live life,
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the more we we will learn more about it.
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So like I said, it's really at a baby stage,
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which is why I'm trying to really get it out to the the public.
18:52
Yeah.
18:53
Can can we dig into those steps a little bit more?
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you you gave us you you you ran through them really quickly.
18:57
Mm-hmm.
18:58
~
18:58
which which was absolutely fine.
19:00
We we got we got a preview. But I I
19:00
Okay. Okay, okay.
19:03
wanna I wanna I wanna talk I wanna talk about like each stage just a little
19:07
bit and because one one of the things I think about like with with grief
19:10
in particular, and it's probably just the way that my brain thinks,
19:14
is like I
19:14
Mm-hmm.
19:15
can sit here as like, okay, I'm in this stage.
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Okay, I recognize I'm in this stage.
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Okay, let me move on.
19:19
Mm-hmm.
19:20
Or, you know, working with someone else.
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they're in this stage and I understand,
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you know, the steps that they're gonna go through.
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And so if we can have that same sort of knowledge,
19:29
you know, about resilience, it's like,
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okay, you know what, I've identified the problem,
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why it exists, you know, whatever that's going to look like.
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I think it it helps us to grasp it,
19:38
you know, and then be able to say,
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okay, you know what, I know what's next.
19:42
I know what to do, I can move a little bit faster.
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Mm-hmm. Okay. So I call it the pathway of resilience,
19:48
our eight. So the first one is to reflect.
19:52
We usually like when you have a problem,
19:55
try to bring clarity to the problem.
19:57
We
19:57
Mm-hmm.
19:58
evaluate the problem, try to get the big picture.
20:00
That's the first step, right? And it seems that
20:02
So so what what is what
20:04
does that kinda look like? Like say,
20:06
I don't know,
20:07
the the world closed down.
20:10
So, so it's like we're just reflective.
20:13
When the problem happens, right?
20:14
Sometimes we we go into this shock mode,
20:18
maybe, right? And we're assessing and we're analyzing.
20:23
And that's usually the first thing that happens When something traumatic
20:27
or something difficult happens,
20:29
It's
20:29
Mm-hmm.
20:29
like we're trying to make sense of what's going on.
20:32
Mm.
20:33
which
20:33
makes sense why it's the first step.
20:35
We reflect
20:35
Yeah.
20:36
on.
20:36
What's happening? Like we're trying to bring clarity to whatever the problem is.
20:42
Like how could this happen? We're questioning,
20:44
we're
20:44
Right.
20:45
we're just like assessing the situation.
20:47
So that's what I mean by like reflecting and bringing clarity and trying
20:51
to get a big picture of what's going on.
20:53
Because sometimes we only have a little bit of information,
20:55
right?
20:56
Right.
20:56
But The more you know, the better you can fix the problem.
21:00
So clarity makes sense for or reflection makes sense why it's the first.
21:04
step.
21:06
It's it's so it sounds like with that,
21:07
like when when I think about that,
21:09
I I I think about the the emotional response.
21:12
like, my gosh, I can't believe this happened,
21:14
or why me, why not? I mean, you know,
21:15
those sorts of stories. But it it's it
21:15
Yes, yes.
21:17
sounds like there's there's gotta be a a healthy way to do this
21:22
so that that particular step is not,
21:25
you know, it doesn't take longer than it needs to.
21:27
What what does that look like?
21:29
Yeah, and that's the and that's the calming of it because when we're confused,
21:35
it brings anxiety, uncertainty.
21:38
You know, something in the study that was serendipitous was
21:43
I thought that during the pandemic,
21:46
I thought that it was important for us to go back to being happy,
21:53
but it wasn't.
21:56
The finding was it was important to come back to being comfortable.
22:01
I was very surprised at that.
22:04
To be comfortable was not,
22:07
it was not about us being happy again.
22:09
It
22:09
Yeah.
22:10
was about us being back into our comfort zone.
22:13
Right.
22:14
Right? So to do that, you know,
22:16
you have anxiety, it's it's a calming of,
22:19
okay, when you focus on.
22:22
on the problem and assess the problem to see how big,
22:26
how small, am I able to to fix it?
22:29
Do I need more resources? But but the first step is you have to have clarity
22:33
and by doing that actually calms you because you have to
22:36
No, no, no, no.
22:37
focus. And anytime you focus, it calm there's something about our focusing
22:41
and our attention that
22:42
Yeah.
22:43
calms us.
22:44
Because
22:44
Yeah.
22:44
when we're not focused, right,
22:46
we're frazzled, we're all over the place,
22:48
we have anxiety, we're worrying,
22:49
my gosh, I'm in this problem, right?
22:51
But as soon as it's okay, let's bring clarity to problem,
22:54
right? Those are the people who are like,
22:56
you know, you're like, how can you be so calm in this situation?
22:58
Mm-hmm.
23:00
Because immediately, right? Okay,
23:04
let's, let's, let's deal with this,
23:06
right?
23:06
Uh-huh.
23:06
First thing is let's reflect.
23:08
Okay. What's what's the next step?
23:10
resources. So then after you you you reflect you have clarity you
23:16
get the big picture okay now let's resource let's get the strategic tools that
23:20
Mm. Mm-hmm.
23:21
we need ~
23:23
any self-care plans right for the kids for
23:27
Mm-hmm.
23:27
~ for us ~
23:31
meditation people said that was part of it resourcing meditation prayer
23:35
Mm-hmm.
23:36
stillness. Some people say they just had to be still.
23:39
During the pandemic, a lot of the
23:40
Mm-hmm.
23:40
therapists, they said they had to just be still
23:44
Mm.
23:44
to take in everything. That was part of resourcing.
23:47
So
23:47
Mm-hmm.
23:49
that's the next step.
23:50
So when you when you're saying resourcing,
23:52
I I I took that wrong the first time you said it.
23:55
When you're saying resourcing,
23:56
you're saying like the verb, like we go out and we you know,
23:59
we find ways to get tools. Yeah.
24:00
We get tools. What are the tools we need?
24:02
Yeah. So
24:03
you you're almost like planning.
24:04
What are the tools that we need?
24:06
What what
24:06
Okay.
24:07
are the tools that I have to fix this problem?
24:10
Right? Or someone
24:11
Okay.
24:11
I know is good at this to help me with this,
24:14
Yeah. Okay.
24:14
right?
24:15
Or I need money. I ~
24:17
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:18
I'm a I'm gonna hit up my brother
24:20
Yeah.
24:22
or my sister, right? So
24:23
Uh-huh, uhhuh.
24:24
so yeah, you just start being strategic in your thinking.
24:29
Okay, so we reflect, we resource.
24:31
That make that makes sense. That makes sense.
24:32
And then reframe. Yeah.
24:33
I I I'm I'm I'm walking myself through like a like an issue.
24:36
Yeah. And then
24:37
~
24:38
we reframe. Very good. Very good.
24:40
Then we reframe, right? So we
24:42
Yeah.
24:42
get new perspectives are coming in.
24:44
We're making adjustments. We're tweaking.
24:47
We're making adjustments. We're we're doing what you now said that you do,
24:51
which is a hindsight and foresight processing.
24:55
We look
24:55
Mm-hmm.
24:56
we we kind of look back at what worked.
24:58
We always do that. We always
24:58
Yeah. Yeah.
24:59
go back to
25:01
what worked for such and such that we know
25:02
Yes.
25:03
of, or grandpa, or like what worked for them.
25:06
a friend of ours at work, like they said this thing happened,
25:09
this was good for them. So what works for them or people or in the past,
25:14
what worked for us. And looking forward,
25:16
now here's there's many different avenues we could go.
25:19
And we'll choose one that we and we do it in milliseconds.
25:23
We already like it's like do do it's like all these
25:27
different outcomes from
25:29
Yeah.
25:29
looking back and it's like our research we naturally research and then we
25:33
say out of all of these four A B C D E B is the best one let's go with that one.
25:38
Okay. Okay.
25:41
So we go with B and then we have resilient factors.
25:45
So now this is where yes yeah
25:47
Can I can I ask you real quick ~ about ref reframing?
25:50
So I was
25:51
I was thinking w the what I gathered from that is is a is a bit of
25:55
a mindset shift as well. Is is that is that included?
25:59
Like, you know, it's like, you know,
26:01
first we go from all is lost to okay,
26:03
there's potential solutions here.
26:05
Is that also the same bucket?
26:08
I don't call it mind shift because mind shift is permanent.
26:11
This is more of adjustment. So yes,
26:11
Okay. Okay.
26:14
there's like an adjustments that are being made.
26:16
Yeah.
26:16
Okay. Okay.
26:18
So we are making adjustments to our lives.
26:20
Yeah. We're changing something about ourselves.
26:24
we're getting new perspective,
26:25
new thought, like, okay, what you know,
26:28
we're being strategic. Like, okay,
26:30
now what else can we do?
26:32
And what works. We're just trying to find out what works now.
26:34
So we're reframing the situation to make it work for us.
26:38
Yeah. So to do that, we do have
26:38
Right, right, right, right. Okay.
26:40
That makes sense. That makes sense.
26:41
Thank you.
26:41
to adapt new ways of thinking and actually behavior.
26:46
And then we do resilient factors where we're connecting to spirituality,
26:51
story work that's like we're getting inspirations,
26:54
we're looking at a good YouTube video,
26:56
a good podcast, a good book, something where we're
27:00
where we're learning through other people's stories.
27:02
and we're coping. We're doing coping mechanisms,
27:05
whatever that is to keep us from,
27:07
you know, having a mental breakdown,
27:10
you know, about whatever the problem is.
27:12
And so those are like
27:13
Is this
27:14
we we're accessing this is where we're accessing resilience.
27:17
Mm-hmm.
27:18
Is is it is this where we're kind of envisioning a future state perhaps where
27:24
whatever problem that we had doesn't exist?
27:26
So we access these stories and the stories,
27:29
you know, or the podcast, you know,
27:30
it works out in the end. It's like,
27:31
that can work out for me and I can picture myself in this future state.
27:33
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
27:34
Is is that kind of what we're going for here?
27:37
Yes, yes. It's all the coping now.
27:39
Mo mostly of HSSSS is here. We're like,
27:41
Yeah.
27:42
we're coping. We're doing all our coping strategies to build us up
27:46
to actually now implement. We we're gonna get to implement,
27:50
but right now, now it's like we're moving further into action mode.
27:55
I'm I'm cu I'm curious and and and I know you're a spiritual spiritual ~ therapist
27:59
Yeah.
28:00
as well. so I want to tap into that a little bit more.
28:02
What is what
28:02
Okay.
28:03
is the what is the what is the what is the benefit or what is the strength,
28:08
you know, in in taking a spirit you had mentioned,
28:10
you know, taking a spiritual approach,
28:12
you know, in this, in this, in the at this stage.
28:15
I mean, how does how does that in particular work?
28:18
How does that make a difference?
28:19
I can see story, I can see inspiration,
28:21
et cetera, et cetera. But
28:22
You know, the the spiritual piece of that seems like a different,
28:25
I don't know, sandbox altogether.
28:27
Mm-hmm. Yeah, as a therapist, you know what I've noticed?
28:30
I've been a therapist for 25 years plus.
28:33
And I noticed that when people come to my couch,
28:36
there are four parts of them I talk about.
28:39
There are four parts of every individual.
28:41
There's the emotional, mental,
28:43
physical, and spiritual part. And each one of them,
28:47
we need a resource from outside of ourselves to build up that part.
28:52
we already are spiritual beings.
28:55
Now, some I speak to some people who don't say that they're spiritual.
28:59
They're like, I'm not spiritual at all.
29:01
They're, you know, we are made up of all different types of people on this planet.
29:06
And some people aren't saying I'm not spiritual,
29:09
but everyone has spirituality in them.
29:11
It doesn't
29:11
Yeah.
29:12
look like you know what we see outside of ourselves,
29:16
like like just like physical, our physical parts.
29:19
We're physical beings, but we use like a gym,
29:22
you know, to build up our our mountain climbing,
29:26
hiking to build up our physical,
29:29
mental health, right? We go to a therapist or a good beach,
29:33
right? To build up our mental health,
29:36
emotional state. We'll see maybe a good movie or listen to music.
29:40
It's all things from outside of us,
29:42
our resources to build up ourselves.
29:43
Mm, mm.
29:44
So e spiritually we are.
29:46
All spiritual beings, and we use spiritual things from outside of ourselves
29:51
to build up our spirituality. Some people go to church,
29:54
some people read the Bible, ~
29:54
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
29:56
some people read positive words,
29:59
self-help books, things that help us to be more spiritual.
30:02
And Spirituality actually is what it looks like is not religion.
30:07
What it looks like for each person is what is your citizenship,
30:11
what is your morals?
30:13
What do you feel is fair and just and right?
30:16
You know?
30:16
Uh-huh, uh-huh.
30:17
That is our spiritual part. of us.
30:20
That's our what Freud called our superego.
30:22
You know, yeah.
30:23
Okay, okay. Thank you. Thank you for that.
30:25
and so what what you're saying is is when we get to this stage we're accessing
30:30
something larger than ourselves.
30:31
Yeah, which makes sense.
30:33
Yeah, which makes sense because we often we often when it's too big for
30:38
us or we often say, Okay, you know,
30:41
okay, God help me here, or we bargain with
30:43
Yeah.
30:43
him, like if you get me through this,
30:45
I will you know, I'll help all the orphans in the world,
30:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:48
you know, something
30:49
like that, you know. or just we we use our moral we use our our spirituality like
30:55
do you remember when
30:57
We we had a resource of, you know,
31:01
during the pandemic, six feet.
31:03
Remember the six feet? We've we've forgotten it already,
31:04
Yeah, ~ huh.
31:06
thank God, right? We don't,
31:07
you know, but remember the six feet?
31:09
And if somebody was five feet away from us,
31:11
the morals of hey, back up. I wanna live.
31:14
Back up, yes. Yeah. Yeah.
31:16
~
31:16
I wanna live just for that one foot,
31:19
you know, could kill me. Okay.
31:21
And people
31:21
are serious about their six feet.
31:23
That was their morals.
31:24
Mm-hmm.
31:24
That was what
31:25
was right and fair and just. Follow the law.
31:27
mhm, mhm, mhm
31:28
Right. Right.
31:30
Following the law. That is our spirituality.
31:33
Yeah. Being accessed.
31:33
Mm.
31:34
Something like that. So yes, during times of of hardship,
31:39
that does have something to do with it.
31:42
What we how we see the world and its morals.
31:45
Yeah.
31:45
Got it, got it, got it. Okay, that makes sense.
31:47
That makes sense. Okay.
31:48
Because sometimes
31:49
morally there's certain things when we're being resilient,
31:53
we're trying to be resilient, there's some things morally we cannot do,
31:57
right? I can't lie. I'm sorry,
31:59
I will not. Or no, I will not cheat,
32:02
or I will not, right? We have morals about us.
32:05
That's
32:05
Mm.
32:06
part of our resilience. See,
32:08
Mm, mm, mm, mm.
32:10
we
32:10
didn't think of all of these things before,
32:12
you know?
32:12
Right.
32:14
It's it's more complex than we realise.
32:16
You see, it's not just the one dimensional.
32:18
It is, it is. And it it I mean,
32:20
I'm I'm I'm really, you know, tracking along with you as well.
32:22
It's like I can again, I can picture myself going through going through these
32:26
stages, you know, in in in different situations.
32:28
And it's it was again, I mean,
32:30
it was just curious that that the this the the spiritual component,
32:33
you know, jumps in here, you know,
32:35
because it's
32:35
Mm-hmm.
32:36
it's like the other components that are active,
32:38
you know, we're out and finding the stories or or,
32:41
you know, doing doing all the things,
32:43
but this is something that is ~ outside
32:45
Also active.
32:46
of us.
32:47
You know what I mean? But it's not it's right,
32:47
Yeah, it's also active.
32:49
right. But it doesn't have a it doesn't have
32:51
a tangible I guess what what we might refer to is as a tangible output.
32:55
You know, there's no confirmation that,
32:56
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
32:58
you know, whatever you
32:58
did spiritually, turned in it manifested into anything.
33:03
And and and it's the same thing with emotions too.
33:06
It's not
33:06
Mm, mm.
33:07
tangible either, right? But we discovered emotional intelligence.
33:11
And so what we're talking about here is spiritual intelligence.
33:15
Yeah. So that's why I talked about the four parts of us.
33:18
There's an intelligence for each.
33:19
Some of us are physically intelligent.
33:21
Like we understand the importance of what goes in our body and and fitness.
33:27
Some of us are better than others.
33:29
that one is not mine so much. I definitely
33:32
Mm-hmm.
33:33
watch what I eat, but some people are they excel at that,
33:37
right? Some people, emotional intelligence,
33:39
they are brilliant when it comes to emotional intelligence.
33:42
Mm-hmm.
33:43
Some people just being intelligent,
33:45
mental health, right? ~
33:46
Yeah.
33:47
some people mentally, their I mean,
33:49
just their knowledge, right? Their IQ,
33:52
amazing. And spiritual intelligence does exist.
33:56
That is the four parts of us. And whatever I tell my my clients,
34:00
whatever you feed, get stronger.
34:03
We usually only focus on our physical and our mental health.
34:07
We don't focus on our emotional and spiritual health.
34:07
Mm-hmm.
34:09
So sometimes people
34:10
say, I don't want to come to therapy.
34:11
I'm not crazy. I say, Well,
34:13
Yeah.
34:13
what about your emotional health?
34:15
And they go, I'll be right there.
34:16
Tell me what time you have in your schedule,
34:17
Ha ha ha
34:20
right? So,
34:21
and some people are spiritually intelligent.
34:23
They, I have a a nine-year-old that's
34:26
That he's like, I love going to church with my grandparents.
34:29
I love
34:29
Yeah.
34:30
what I I'm learning, you know.
34:32
And they'll be like, yeah, my friends,
34:34
they don't know nothing about that.
34:35
Like, like, but I, you know, I'm straight.
34:38
I'm doing good because I know I'm,
34:40
you know, they understand there's something bigger than themselves at such
34:45
a young age. So how do you account for that?
34:47
They're spiritually intelligent.
34:49
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.
34:50
I've never heard of that. Thank you for that.
34:52
Okay, I've interrupted your your stages again.
34:55
I apologize.
34:56
So
34:56
then this is when we start putting things into practice,
34:59
which is routine, is the fifth R.
35:01
~
35:02
Uh-huh.
35:03
and we start building our new practices around all the things,
35:07
all the the four steps before.
35:09
~ we
35:10
Mm-hmm.
35:10
start building practices, we start training our behaviors,
35:14
we start setting boundaries, right?
35:16
Mm. Mm-hmm.
35:17
That's that sixth beat, right?
35:18
We start
35:18
setting boundaries.
35:20
for what we didn't have before.
35:23
Yeah.
35:23
So that's the routine. And then reassessing,
35:27
that's now we go back and we reassess.
35:30
We go back to reflecting and we this is where we tweak things.
35:34
We're
35:34
Mm-hmm.
35:35
like, okay, is plan B working basically?
35:38
either it is, we're gonna keep going with it,
35:41
or actually I see now plan B helped,
35:44
but plan C now
35:46
That I have a bigger picture and I've been doing it for a longer amount of time,
35:49
I think
35:50
Mm-hmm.
35:50
C actually now can take over or would have been the best choice.
35:55
And then you
35:55
Mm.
35:55
could either dis make a decision,
35:57
this is where you're decision making,
35:58
to do C or E F, whichever,
36:02
~
36:02
Mm-hmm.
36:02
or stick with B, because for you it is fixing the problem and you have figured
36:08
it out the first choice, you know.
36:10
Okay. Okay.
36:12
Yeah, so that requires your emotions,
36:15
your emotional makeup. Usually you feel stable about it.
36:19
You know, you feel content. your focus is is is sharp and this is what we're doing.
36:23
You're determined and you have flexibility because way you were doing
36:29
it before for the pro wasn't helping you.
36:31
So now you're flexible in this new way of thinking,
36:34
this new uncomfortability that you have to be out of.
36:38
Mm-hmm.
36:38
Then you resolve the issue. You're actually resolving your problem solving now.
36:42
Here's where the mental shift comes in,
36:44
because now you the paradigm shift has happened in your mind.
36:48
It's a new, it's become a new way of living for you.
36:52
and you have now adapted. Before you were adjusting,
36:55
tweaking, but now you
36:56
Mm-hmm.
36:56
have actually adapted to this new way of life or this new way
37:01
of handling the problem. Then we reconnect to community.
37:04
Now, reconnecting, sometimes we connect in the beginning when we're reflecting
37:08
or when we're resourcing, we need help.
37:10
We pull people in. But usually for some reason we try to fix things
37:14
on our own before we bring people in.
37:15
Yeah. Right.
37:17
So that's
37:17
why I put reflecting, reconnecting at at the end,
37:21
because that's when people, it's the community,
37:23
it's the family, it's our colleagues,
37:25
you know. That's when we say, Hey,
37:27
this is what happened to me and how I got through it.
37:29
This is when you tell the victory story.
37:31
You know, this is when, you know.
37:33
This is what works for me. And people like,
37:36
I didn't even know you were going through that.
37:37
Right? And you're like, yeah, my gosh,
37:40
you have no idea. But you feel so happy that you made it through,
37:45
you know? And that's when you look back and go,
37:47
okay, now I know what I actually did.
37:49
I know the
37:50
Mm.
37:50
steps now. I don't look back and go,
37:52
I didn't know. And so now that I've told you the steps,
37:56
before this, you would have said,
37:59
that's true. There was a gap.
38:01
I didn't know what was happening.
38:02
But now that you knew you had you're educated on it,
38:05
it
38:05
Yeah.
38:06
it you evolve. This
38:08
Yeah.
38:08
is something else that I learned from my study is that you evolve,
38:13
and you know, we think of evolution as physical and over hundreds
38:17
and hundreds of years, but every time you go through a problem,
38:21
this is what I learned from the study is that you evolve for each problem so that.
38:28
The next one you're better equipped.
38:31
Mm.
38:31
The human body's just fascinating.
38:33
It really is. It really is.
38:35
It it what what occurs to me is is it seems like you know,
38:40
we're we're naturally designed to and you alluded to it earlier,
38:43
we're naturally designed to get back to you know some level of homeostasis,
38:47
you know, we're you know, some some normalcy and even if that normalcy
38:48
Mmm yes, good word.
38:51
is is different, you know, it's it's it's normal it's normal.
38:55
It's it's that is
38:56
Yeah.
38:58
that is so that is so brilliant.
38:59
Yeah, and I guess that's where happiness.
38:59
That's and I I guess that's why it's
39:02
Go ahead.
39:02
I I was
39:02
gonna say I I guess that's why,
39:03
you know, for for it's intuitive to us.
39:06
You said everybody does this. It's intuitive for us because this is what
39:09
our body is really designed to do.
39:13
But then understanding the process enables us to do it as you said before,
39:17
it enables us to do it faster and better.
39:18
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
39:19
We evolve, you know. this
39:22
that is so brilliant.
39:23
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we always we always say we've a sign of resilience is growth.
39:29
That's the sign. We always grow from our problems,
39:32
we say, right? Yeah.
39:33
Yeah.
39:34
Because you've evolved. You evolved into a new you.
39:38
This is the part that gets me.
39:40
We're always being renewed. this is what
39:44
true evolution is emotionally,
39:46
mentally, spiritually. You know,
39:48
I call it the f the I call it being superhuman,
39:51
which is what I call my book, which
39:51
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
39:53
is what I name my book, Becoming Superhuman,
39:55
being able to use all of those four parts of us,
39:58
you know, to
39:59
Mm-hmm.
39:59
to really build and change and grow and become a better us.
40:04
You know, you become a better Rick.
40:05
I become a better Petrina Yemane right?
40:08
So yeah.
40:10
Wait what
40:10
talk talk to us about your book.
40:12
Why did what first of all, why why did you why did you put this into a book?
40:16
Yeah, I wanted to I wanted to get out there to the rest of the world.
40:21
Like I said, this is really new stuff.
40:23
I mean, even for me, even me trying to explain it,
40:26
I learn new stuff, even carrying it with me in my mind.
40:29
Yeah.
40:30
I go through stuff still, I have my own problems,
40:33
Yeah.
40:34
right? It doesn't mean
40:34
I don't have any problems now that I know about resilience.
40:37
I still have problems, but I'm seeing how how how
40:43
How resilient I am.
40:45
Yeah.
40:46
And in certain areas, I'm learning now like new information.
40:51
For example, I'm resilient with work.
40:55
I'm resilient with my family. But maybe my personal life or love life,
41:00
I'm not so resilient, you know,
41:02
Mm. Mm-hmm.
41:02
just to be honest.
41:03
some people with their personal lives,
41:06
boy, are they resilient. But when it comes to work,
41:09
They're not resilient, right? So now I'm even seeing it's it it just doesn't come
41:14
just in all of life. It's like now there's
41:16
Wow.
41:17
like sections that you're better at than than the other,
41:21
which is my new like
41:24
Epiphany, right? So I keep learning more and more about resilience.
41:28
I don't know everything there is to know,
41:29
but
41:30
Yeah.
41:30
definitely I feel like God has given me some some hardships.
41:34
So He's like, Okay, you're not gonna be a hypocrite,
41:36
okay? You can't write a book about resilience and you haven't experienced
41:39
any so any any hardships. So we're gonna make sure you have some hardships
41:43
to actually put into practice what you're talking about,
41:46
what you're telling other people about.
41:46
Wow. ~
41:49
You need some experience. I'm like,
41:50
okay, God, but just just one or two,
41:52
okay? this five of them is just overwhelming sometimes.
41:56
Ha ha.
41:57
I think he's I think he sees more capability in us than we see in ourselves.
42:01
Yeah, right.
42:02
Excellent, excellent. If we want to get a copy of the book,
42:04
what's the what's the best way to do that?
42:07
yes. you know, I am on Amazon and Kindle
42:12
and just now I'm now on Barnes & Noble's online site.
42:18
So that's pretty cool. That that was actually this week.
42:21
So I was really excited, like if you
42:22
Congratulations.
42:23
asked me this question that I could say,
42:25
I'm on Barnes & Noble online.
42:27
So
42:28
Yeah, and I'm trying to get into some other bookstores.
42:31
So I got an email saying we're still reviewing.
42:33
I'm like, okay, so everybody pray,
42:35
okay? Cause I really want this information out.
42:38
It's not something to be kept.
42:39
it's not something that's like to make money.
42:41
It really is to, you know, people need to know this important information.
42:46
It's a discovery. And I I want it to be like how,
42:49
you know, people now better understand the grief process,
42:53
right? ~
42:53
Yeah.
42:54
I want people to understand the resilience process.
42:56
Yeah.
42:57
And any chance an audiobook is coming out?
43:00
yes. I am working on that for sure,
43:03
Nice.
43:03
for sure. Yeah. And I do want to I do want to use my voice,
43:08
you know, for it. Yeah. So if that's still in the works.
43:09
Nice. Excellent. Excellent. That's exciting.
43:12
Excellent.
43:12
Yeah. I love Audible. So hopefully,
43:15
you know, I can get on there too.
43:18
That'll be amazing. That'll be amazing.
43:19
Awesome. Awesome. I have a question then that I ask all my guests.
43:22
~
43:23
Okay.
43:23
and and I think this will be probably pr pretty easy for you.
43:26
So as you know, the name of the show is the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
43:30
Yes.
43:30
~
43:31
winning is something that, you know,
43:32
most people can identify. They know what they want to do,
43:34
they know what they want to accomplish.
43:36
The challenge that we have sometimes is maintaining that relentless pursuit.
43:39
So my question for
43:40
Mm-hmm.
43:41
you, for our audience, is what would you recommend to our audience
43:45
to encourage them or enable them to maintain that relentless pursuit?
43:50
Through resilience, right? You know,
43:52
it is a noble job, and it takes
43:56
a noble person to be in leadership,
44:01
entrepreneurship, supervise. It's it is a craft in
44:07
an in and of its own. And I think
44:11
Just communication is very different than regular communication.
44:17
~
44:17
Mm-hmm.
44:18
having a plan and a vision is very different than the average person.
44:23
your actions and accountability is held to a higher standard.
44:28
just everything, your integrity has to be above reproach.
44:33
empathy, you know, the the amount of empathy that you need,
44:37
you know, it's this is all what makes a great leader.
44:41
And I think there's like the six principles of leadership.
44:44
people should look that up. And I think that that's just a higher calling.
44:48
And so for that, the difficulties,
44:51
you know, the the problem solving skills that is needed,
44:57
the
44:58
you know, good intent and it doesn't come out the right way.
45:02
Or the sacrifices you made, no one sees it.
45:05
I mean, how relentless do you have to be,
45:09
you know, in continuing to pursue your dreams.
45:12
And so I encourage talk about it.
45:16
Always talk to someone because that's accessing resilience,
45:19
right? Hardships explained.
45:20
Yeah.
45:21
It's it's it's it's remembering
45:24
the the vision that you have of why you do what you do.
45:27
You know,
45:27
Yeah.
45:27
it's it's problem solving on a whole nother level.
45:30
And so I think first know that take stock
45:36
in the confidence you need to have in yourself and realize that resilience
45:41
is really all about an investment in yourself.
45:45
You know, I say that because it's like
45:47
That's what you're doing. You're investing in yourself and you're investing
45:50
in this product or this ideal or this business that you you know,
45:57
it's like your baby, right? That you care for,
46:00
that you wanted to excel. And
46:02
Mm-hmm.
46:02
to do that it takes an enormous amount of ambition,
46:07
self love, self care, you know?
46:09
And
46:10
Mm-hmm.
46:11
It's really important. So I I I think there's a perseverance even that needs
46:16
to happen. but accessing resilience from within,
46:21
it's it is relentless. It's relentless because day in,
46:26
day out, you're grinding. and that takes a resilience of another sort of level.
46:32
But you can do it because it was put in you to do it.
46:37
It is your
46:37
Mm.
46:38
purpose. And that's something I do write in my book.
46:40
You know, I just don't write about the different stages and steps,
46:43
but I include a lot of motivational things in there that one of them
46:49
is the strongest oaks grow where the strongest winds blow.
46:53
Right? Yeah,
46:53
Mm. Mm.
46:55
right. I'm a person that loves stories and analogies,
46:58
and these things help me to be motivational and
47:02
persevering and confident. And something like that,
47:05
that's I feel that that's what people are doing who are like in leadership.
47:09
They're going against the wind.
47:10
Right.
47:11
Yeah, yeah.
47:12
They're going, they're going they're going up the hill,
47:15
right? Which is really difficult.
47:17
So I I really believe that resilience is something that it's it's different
47:23
for each person. But
47:24
Mm-hmm.
47:26
accessing it's it's your purpose anyway.
47:28
And so believing in that, yeah.
47:30
Wow. Well
47:30
That's part of
47:31
resilience is believing in in in that you were made to do this.
47:36
Just like I was made to write this book.
47:38
I was made
47:38
Yeah.
47:38
to be the discoverer and the gratitude that comes out of it.
47:42
And so I leave you with that. Definitely the gratitude,
47:45
feed off of that, you know, how grateful you are,
47:48
because that's what keeps you going for sure and makes you relentless for sure.
47:52
Yeah.
47:52
Wow. Wow. Wow. I did not expect that.
47:55
Resilience, yes, but you know,
47:55
Yeah. ~
47:58
you you
47:58
you took it you made you you took it to a different level.
48:01
I I I really appreciate the the the gratitude component of that.
48:04
I I think that that that is that is a different tool.
48:08
You know that is that is a different tool.
48:10
It is.
48:11
That that accesses, that that spirituality and that certainly enables
48:15
me to keep going and and doing what I do every day.
48:17
So thank you so much. Someone wants to
48:19
Yeah, yeah.
48:20
to talk to you and learn a little bit more or potentially work with you.
48:22
What's the best way to get in touch with you?
48:24
wow. Well, I am I ~ yeah.
48:26
You're on TikTok. ~
48:29
I I just got on TikTok
48:30
for my nephew. You know these young folks.
48:32
~ They're like, let
48:33
Ha ha ha.
48:34
me help you out, Auntie. So yeah,
48:36
I'm on TikTok now and I use LinkedIn and yeah,
48:41
I mean I'm on Facebook, but I guess that's most of my social media,
48:46
yeah.
48:47
Okay. All right, cool. So what
48:48
Yeah.
48:48
we'll do is we'll we'll put we'll put some links on your show notes page
48:52
on on your your on your on your show page and people
48:54
Okay.
48:55
will be able to access you that way.
48:56
Thank you so much, Doctor Yemane,
48:58
for being on the show. I really enjoyed our conversation.
48:59
Yes, yes. Yes,
49:01
yeah. I also gave out some I I think I emailed you a PDF of the first chapter
49:07
You You did.
49:08
of the book and
49:09
also a sticker that has a number by Doctor Ali
49:15
Binazir of the chances that we are alive,
49:18
you know, is like so close to zero.
49:20
That's motivational in itself.
49:22
So I put that little sticker as a reminder how valuable and important we all are.
49:26
Yeah.
49:28
Yes. Thank you for reminding me of that.
49:29
We will put that on
49:30
your page as well. I appreciate that.
49:32
I appreciate that.
49:32
Yeah.
49:33
You're wonderful. keep doing what you're doing.
49:36
It's definitely a a blessing for everybody.
49:39
And you should be really proud of yourself.
49:41
Yeah, you are the epitome of relentless pursuit of winning.
49:47
You definitely the the face of of of of the podcast for sure.
49:52
Awesome. Thank you so much
49:53
Thank you so much. I'm so humbled.
49:54
for having me on. I'm really grateful.
49:57
Absolutely.
49:58
Absolutely. And folks, I want to thank you so much for watching
50:01
or listening to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning podcast.
50:04
We'll catch you next time.