Latest / The Accounting Leads Now Podcast / You Don’t Need More Leads, You Need Better Conversations- With Kwame Agyei

Transcript

You Don’t Need More Leads, You Need Better Conversations- With Kwame Agyei · The Accounting Leads Now Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to another episode of CFO Chronicles, The Secrets Behind Success, the show for accounting firm owners ready to outgrow referrals, scale smart, and finally treat marketing like a real growth engine.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: I met today's guest, Kwame Ajay, a few weeks ago at Intuit Connect in Las Vegas, and within minutes of talking to him, I knew we had to get him on the podcast.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: Kwame is the founder of A Point, a company transforming offshore staffing by unlocking untapped talent across Africa.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: But this isn't just about outsourcing, it's about building high-performing teams that help firms grow lean, stay profitable, and actually get their life back.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: In this episode, we break down the marketing playbook that didn't work, how community outperforms cold leads, and why bigger isn't always better, especially for accounting firms trying to grow without the chaos.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: If hiring is slowing you down, if you've tried duct taping a team together, or if you've ever considered outsourcing but didn't know where to start, this conversation is your blueprint.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Kwame, welcome to the show.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my man, it's so great to see you again.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Likewise, James, thank you so much.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and what a lovely introduction.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: How have you been since getting back from Vegas?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: I know we were we were chatting a little bit here before hitting record.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's a little bit colder in central London.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: We're not we don't have the warm weather that we had, uh, you and I in Vegas, but it's been great.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the amazing things about going to an event like Intuit is just that community feel, you know, getting to sit down and really talk to people, what you know, what the future of accounting looks like.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, I walked away with so empowered with so much knowledge, um, so much hope for what the future of CAS looks like, and just new friends, you know, like yourself.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, we met and here we are hanging out, having a great conversation about building uh businesses and entrepreneurship in the CFO world and the counting world.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's always great to be around those people and always great to be at the event.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome, awesome.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm pumped to dive into things.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: So let's let's get to it.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, most firms, Kwame, are buried in staffing issues.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: What was your turning point the moment you knew a point had to exist?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's such a great question.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a trade accountant myself, right?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I I understand the world of uh profit and loss balance sheets and cash flow that and that and margins.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's my thing.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I've always worked in the startup industry, uh, regardless of wherever I've been.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've always been in the startup world, sorry, should I say.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I recognize that a lot of companies that are growing have one fundamental problem, uh, which is cash flow.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you're growing rapidly, uh you can you can kind of risk over trading, and therefore you still need the resources to scale, but then you worry about your margin position.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then the margin position needs you to worry about your cash flow.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I recognize the point being a valuable uh entity and business model because actually what we can do is support firm firm owners who are looking to scale and grow and say, okay, you know, we can do it from this economic position, which will allow you in turn to focus on your customers and your clients and provide them with a better experience whilst also being able to grow your business.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and ultimately, I say this to everybody the thing about staffing solutions is that they're there to provide you peace of mind, peace of mind, the work is being done.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: As long as we're providing you peace of mind, then you know we're doing a good job.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's what everyone's looking for at the end of the day, right?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's the peace of mind.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's what um I mean, that's why you should go and hire experts like yourself for really for any aspect of the business.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was just I got off a recording a podcast, I was guesting on one earlier today, and it was the same same topic was coming up.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, as the accounting firm owners, you don't have to try to wear all the hats.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: The same message you deliver to your own clients of this is why you should hire us, because we're the expert with the debits and credits and the profit and loss statements and all those things that you think are exciting that your clients don't really care about.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: They care about the peace of mind.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then with that, go and go and outsource and hire other experts to help you out in your business so you can focus on the main thing.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that that's what you bring up is the peace of mind because that that's so true.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you've spoken about the challenges with Ghana's education education system, but also the talent potential.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, what parallels do you see between that and how the US and how US firms are hiring today?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a great, great, uh, great point to uh highlight.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: So Ghana's accounting standards align with the UK.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so what that means is simply by virtue of how people are trained and qualified, they're more akin to the UK accounting standards than they are in the US.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: So typically, any people we hire, we have to go through that process of training them to understand the US accounting process.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and when you're starting out as a company that's effectively bootstrapped, you know, you're really leaning on talent who have an incredible aptitude to learn and learn quickly.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I'll tell you this uh that bootstrapping element taught us a lot.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: It taught us how to efficiently upskill our team, but taught us also more importantly how to hire.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, sometimes when you have all the resources available to you, you could be remiss in thinking as long as you throw money at the education and training problem, uh, that will solve it.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: But no, so we had to get really, really intentional and educational about how we hire our people.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Everything from what is your certifications, what is your experience, what is your technical experience, right down to what is your attitude towards the role because you're learning something entirely different.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Are you willing to retrain?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Are you willing to reskill?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Are you willing to have a very steep learning curve to understand how it is that we are pointer looking to deliver accounting services for our customers over in the US?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so that model has worked really well for us.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: We now have a very core and strong team who understand what we're trying to achieve, and that makes life easy because now when new people come in, the you know the people who are already there can say, hey, you know, guys, this is how we do things, this is how we operate.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it gets you know, the time to productivity is the word that I use, um, gets shorter and shorter through every hiring cycle.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's great.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I guess to follow up to your point about what that means for us in the US, I think part of my mission um has always been about education and teaching people about Ghana and what Ghana looks like and how Ghana can operate.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And doing it in person has been an amazing experience because now people are actually, you know, tuning um to Ghana, but actually the continent as a whole, really excited to learn something new, it's fresh, it's different, it comes from a different angle of perspective.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of accounting firms are asking us the question of, oh, can you deliver this type of work from Ghana?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Yeah, of course we can.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, great, let's do it.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's uh let's give it a go.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then we typically start with a POC and we scale from there.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's been the journey so far.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's so cool.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: So with with this being a marketing podcast as well, I want to touch on some stuff you've tried.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I know you you mentioned you've tried some cold outreach in the past and it flopped.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious to know what what I'm curious to know what happened and what can firm owners learn from that when when they feel stuck with lead gen.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Flopped is an understatement.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, like we we've done it all.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: We've done like cold calling, um we have done um you know lead generation online, email outbound, LinkedIn.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it didn't work, and I think it didn't work for a number of reasons.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think um number one is that element of lead gen uh is so common now that actually if you know you can only be successful at it if you're an expert at it.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not an expert in lead gen at all.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an accountant, so I can't, you know, lead generation is not my thing.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're not careful and you go down the volume game, you risk you know brand reputation um and damage.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because really I say this all the time you only have one opportunity to make an impression, and if it fails, you're unlikely to get a second time at that at that prospect.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so yeah, we did the cold calling, lots of people hanging up or not answering uh the emails, no responses.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that wasn't that wasn't the best for us.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think it's because a lot of people just weren't aware of Ghana.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, you're trying to pitch a new geo in a new location to people whilst also trying to tell them that you want to deliver services you want them to buy from you.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there, you know, people just like, I don't, I don't know about this, so therefore I'm gonna ignore it.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you know the approach is completely wrong.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um was I do I regret it?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's a learning curve, right?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know till you know, uh, but it forced me to change my approach, which I did, and ultimately that was that led to a lot more successes for us.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's let's I want to talk about what you switched to that worked, but I have a couple other follow-up questions of that.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: How long did you try each channel or campaign, if you will, with the cold calling, with email, with outreach?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because um, but actually, I'm gonna let you answer that first before I even add on to that.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't wanna I don't want to inspect your answer.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we ran campaigns like a good year.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um that and it was a very like each time it was tweak the email, a b testing, change the uh the body of the email, change the heading, um, you know, change the sequence, change like everything.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Anything and everything you could possibly think of is pretty much we tried.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it was over the course of a year, um, is what we did it for.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, okay, I need to change strategy.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: I should have learned my lesson a lot quicker, to be honest.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, I'm I'm that's cool to hear.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, sure.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: A year, if if it wasn't producing better results, I'm probably could have cut it back a little bit, but I'm I'm it's really cool to hear that it was this wasn't like all right, we tried for 30 days, it didn't work.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: All right, we tried this new thing for 30 days, it didn't work.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because that you're barely given enough time for the plane to even get off the runway at that point.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's where so many accounting firms fail, is they they keep trying all these new things and they see an Instagram video, they see whatever, like, oh, I'll try that.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, yeah, give give this vehicle a chance to even rev up to the speed it needs to be at before you decide we're in the wrong vehicle.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Totally agree, totally, totally agree.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and I, you know, I tested various methods, uh, but I I waited maybe two months before switching methods just so that I can say, okay, it's actually not working.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, let me change my methodology.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then yeah, so I totally agree with what you're saying.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to give it a chance.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I I love your outlook on that, knowing this wasn't this wasn't a wasted experience.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Now you know, okay, we can check that off the list.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: That one didn't work for us, or the way we tried that didn't work.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Cool, we'll try something else.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because marketing as a whole, we know it works, but there's a lot of ways to do it right.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: There's a there's way more ways to do it wrong.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I love I love your outlook on that.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: But you said you did switch and things are working.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: So tell us a little bit about when you made that switch and how you know things opened up for you.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you know, and I hope a lot of accountants can relate to me when I'm when I say this.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think as accountants, uh, we and people who run companies, we risk becoming operators, right?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: We get very deep into the work, we're here to deliver to the client, but actually our role is to be strategists and builders, right?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: When you're moving into entrepreneurial space, and when you do that, the key thing is for you as an individual to be out there in person and meeting people and having conversations with people because fundamentally that's where the building starts as a company, and then later on you can build your brand and you know build your pipeline and everything through through other marketing tools.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, when I started taking more and more trips um to the US and just started meeting more people, it exponentially changed my my viewpoint.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: And actually I realized, oh, hold on, this is this is marketing, but just different.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: But marketing that need to be done at the stage that my company is at.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, maybe this is just my own thoughts, but the idea of networking sometimes can feel very transactional to go to a networking event and network.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, what I realized was by going to these more intimate events and meeting people like yourself and everybody else in the group that we you know we both come across so far, what you're really building is a community.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And when you build a community, then the community in turn looks at supporting each other and supporting you.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And when you do that, then suddenly you realize, oh, actually, and the idea of a network is just friends, it's friends who are in a way in a position that we all work together, and that's a much more humanizing way to do it.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a big learning curve for me.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: So being in front of people, and actually being in front of people, you know, when I when I talk about Ghana in front of someone who doesn't know the location, they you know, they'll go, Oh, I didn't know much about Ghana.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me more.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can't ignore me now, I'm in front of you, right?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's a lot it's a lot harder to run away from me or just you know report to spam or you know, uh just just uh delete the email.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm here, I'm here with uh so let's let's talk about it.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, when you when you get the opportunity to talk to someone after you build a meaningful connection with them um about what you're trying to do, people pay more uh more and more interest.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you know, for firm owners who are looking to grow and scale, find the communities that you belong to and find the communities that the customers you want to engage with belong to and meet with them, spend time with them because that that is actually when you you how you can scale.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's hard because you have deliverables to meet, but that's where when you can get support, outsource support, for example, it gives you that time to go out there and really focus on growing your business.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's so good.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I love how you're looking at attending the like the conferences, the trade shows as a form of marketing because that's what it is.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: You're still investing in you being at the event.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's and it's it's a huge one-to-many opportunity.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: You can go speak to so many people, shake so many hands that you you can't you can't have that many Zoom calls in one day, nor would you probably want to.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's just not the same.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: And everyone who is attending the events, they are everyone's in a like they're like-minded, they're open to having those conversations, so things just naturally feel a lot easier.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious though, what would you say to a firm owner who may feel a little bit more introverted, who's like, ah, I I know I should probably go to some networking events, I know I should get there, but like I don't I'm nervous, I don't I don't want to put myself out there.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: How what would you say to them?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I've been I I am exactly in the same boat as you, like whoever this individual is, or people who might feel that same way.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um look, what I'll say is you know, growth is on the other side of fear.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and and you recognize that if you're in if that's a space that you get nervous in, but you still step into that space, recognize you're being courageous about it, right?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like it this is a real uh self self-serving, self-understanding moment for you to look at yourself upon reflection and say, I can do this because I promise you the upside is far more substantial than you could ever imagine if you just go out and connect with people.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also a muscle.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: You go the first time, you might only make one or two or three, but that's okay.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: You've now got a you you know, that's two or three more than uh you wouldn't have if you stayed at home.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh then the next time you go, chances are you know these communities move around together, right?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: So you know you know the same people who have those three people who went to the next event.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: You go, they can introduce you to other people, then suddenly it warms up over time.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: So don't fear it.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's a muscle you have to practice, just dive straight into it.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm coming from London to these to the to these events, right?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um I've been in events where I've arrived and I've only met one or two people, and those are the only connections I've walked away with.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lesson.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: You learn it.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: You now you go, okay, the next time this is what I'm going to do differently.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's it.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: We figure it out as we go along, so just dive straight into it.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: You have nothing to fear.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there's I mean, so much of what you're saying resonates with me as well.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: I would consider myself for the most part pretty outgoing, but I do certainly get very shy in new communities uh where I don't know people.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: But to your point, like I'm traveling from eastern Canada, not as far as London, but still making quite a trip out to Vegas.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I caught myself in the hotel room before a lot of the events, being like, Man, it would be so much easier to sit in the room right now and and just ordering some food and not not go and put myself out there and keep restarting new conversations.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: But saying that as like, okay, that would be foolish.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: You flew all the way here, you invested the money, go make the most of this.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing bad's going to happen.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: And getting to those events, you know, it's kind of the talk track in the back of my head the whole time.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: There was a few people I met from a couple days earlier at an event in Arizona.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was really easy to gravitate to them, but it's like you didn't come here to just hang out with the same people you know because you're not gonna get more from it.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you get what you put into it, and it's like, okay, good conversation with the person I met.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's just go inject into a new group, go shake someone's hand.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's all fine.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that I think that's how we started connecting.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: So pretty much uh yeah, I I love what you're what you're saying on that.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I want to get a little bit more tactical here, Kwame.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: What's a result or milestone you're most proud of with a point and what made it work?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, the milestone that I am most proud of, and it happens repeatedly, is when uh one of our customers says, Hey, I have a friend who's looking for some help.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Can you help them?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: That co-signing of when a client is confident enough uh to recommend you to somebody else.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I take that with a lot of respect and pride because that is a dynamic that I'm not aware of, right?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, you don't want a situation where you deliver bad work for a referral, and then that can damage your own client's relationship.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and the reason why I'm proud of that is because I always said say to my team all the time the best thing we can do for our clients is to just do the work.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Just do the work, like deliver exactly what they're looking for.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Once we deliver what exactly what they're looking for, then we can look around and say, Okay, well, how can we add more value to you?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And once you achieve these things and you give your customers their peace of mind, that's when they say, Oh gosh, I trust these guys so much.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because chances are their network of people or friends or people in their community are probably going through the exact same problem that you're solving.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: So they would say, Hey, actually, you know, you should speak to Kwame because he helped me out with this team and his team helped me out and we've solved it.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, some of our biggest customers who I know for a fact, if I sent them a LinkedIn message, they probably would have ignored me.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and is now a customer of mine.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's allowing us to build our brand, it's allowed us to build our presence to talk about the work we do, showcase the work we do, and so now we're using that leverage to focus ourselves online to say, okay, let's build a reputation for a point that now so when we do go back to the you know the the the period of uh lee gen and so forth, we're doing it from a completely different position than we were when I first started the company four years ago.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: So now knowing like the problems you're solving for clients, the you're helping them sleep better at night, you're you're providing more freedom to them.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: How do you what does your messaging look like now when you when you attend networking events or you have your other marketing efforts to attract new business for a point?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like how how does that get communicated from maybe what you're doing in the past that didn't work to now you've learned, you've kind of you've gone through the bumps and bruises, you have a lot of success stories.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious to hear how you guys approach attracting new clients now.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think now, whenever I attend events um in person, my thing is I just want to get to know you.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's the number one thing.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: I will tell you what I do, I will tell you about my business, and I always say, you know, if you ever need anything, just let me know.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and actually that line of uh positioning came from Kenji, a gentleman called Kenji.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Kenji taught me this.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: He said, When you meet someone, it is rare that they need what you're providing at that point in time.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: It might be three months down the line, it might be six months down the line, but it's very, very rare.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the best thing that you can do is just tell them who you are, uh, what you can do, but then once that initial you know introduction's over, just talk to them about their company.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Learn about their company, learn about their journey, their history.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, never underestimate how far it goes when you really take the time to understand someone and what they're trying to do and achieve in their life.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, as business owners, firm owners, your company is on your mind every single day.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Not only is your company on your mind every single day, you think about how your company would be in one year time, two years, three years, five years, ten years, uh, how that affects your family, you work late, you know, do you get to see time with your partners, your kids, you're traveling all the time.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: So when you get somebody who just sits with you and just goes, Look, I'm not trying to force anything down your throat, why don't we just have a bit of a chat and just see where life takes us?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I I've some of our customers now we spent most of our time talking about our kids.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and that was where we bonded.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And a couple months later, they hit me up in an email and said, Hey, actually, can you help me with this?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Humanize it.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: It you know, humanize the efforts um because that's really what's gonna get you where you need to get to.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Would you say that's I mean, this is coming from a very genuine point of view as you bring all of this up, but do you think the other side of the coin is also like there's a little bit of sales strategy there where you're like, I'm just gonna be human and I'm gonna do something that a lot of other people don't do and actually care about the person I'm speaking to and be super genuine because so many people are always out there trying to push their own agenda, push how their service is the best, and and blah, blah, blah.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no one cares about all the accolades, but you're coming from a point of I'm just gonna actually speak to you because I genuinely want to get to know you.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: And the next time you have a need, you're gonna think of me because I'm the person who I was I was just a good human and we had a connection outside of it being transactional.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, do you know what you you've hit the nail on the head there?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because I I always thought of sales as you know, what is your lead magnet?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: What is your how you're managing your pipeline?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I grew up, sorry, I grew up, I worked in digital advertising, it's agency model.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you you bid for your campaigns.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I saw that process of sales.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: So my understanding and coming into sales was well, okay, well, you know, let's set up our CRM, let's, you know, let's look at our funnels, how we bring in the funnels in and so forth.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was like, I I'm terrible at this type of sales.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm I'm so bad at this type of sales for me personally, because it's not my experience.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: But also, you know, it's different when you are selling uh an organization that's already established, but when you're selling your own firm, people are like, Well, why should I be invested in you as the individual?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so for me, I've always been about just getting to know people, like even outside of a work context, you know, I just like hanging out with friends and just having conversations.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: You're not I'm not the type of person you're gonna see layout at night or you know in in different social settings.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the I'll come to your house, we'll sit in, we'll chill and we'll talk.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I just honed that skill and said made it mine and my my own personal trait.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: So when I do go and sit and talk to someone, it's actually you know the Kwame you're talking to when we're sat in a conference next to each other talking about the future of um accounting accounting services is the same Kwame who would be sitting next to his best friend watching a football game, just talking about life.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just the context of the conversation is different.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: And and the reason I bring this up is so many firm owners I see struggle and and overthink sales.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of the day, just be yourself, just be human, actually care about the person you're speaking to.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Can you help solve the problems they have?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: If you can, awesome.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Here's how I can help.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: If you can't, hey, no problem.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not the best person, but I should introduce you to you know, whoever.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: And you just you add so much more trust and authority that way because you're not again trying to push your own agenda.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay, now I'm just here to help you, and that that will come back.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: It does, and I'll I'll give you a perfect example of that actually.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we as a company, even though our team uh uh Ghana's accounting standards align with the US, we service the US only.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we've had situations where someone's come to me and sit in the UK and said, Hey, I'd like for you guys to service my my accounting firm.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I've looked at it and said, Look, our team's at capacity, we can't necessarily hire for what it is that you need for us to do right now.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, I know this guy who's my personal accountant, um, he can do the work for you.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I just pass it on to him, and then you know they build that relationship that way.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: And nothing comes has come from that, but that's not the point.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: The point is someone has walked away going, oh, you know what, actually, rather than him trying to sell me a service that they actually haven't built their capabilities for, he's passed me on to someone who can deliver the work for me.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: In future, if I come across anyone who needs US accounting services, I'll point him in that direction.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how we look.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a much slower process, don't get me wrong, but it goes deeper and further in the long run.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you you just never regret doing it that way.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, it's so good, it's so true.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, a couple of questions here for you, Kwame.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, outsourcing still has a bit of a stigma in the accounting world.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I would say, even just in general, outsourcing probably has a bit of a stigma to it.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: What's the biggest misconception you've seen, and how do you shift that narrative with your clients?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: That is such a big question.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's quite a few.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'll say the biggest one is cultural alignment.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's the biggest misconception.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because I think sometimes people have this thing of what if they are in a totally different region on the other side of the world, plus four to eight hours ahead, and live in a very different lifestyle to me, can we yes, they can do the job, but are we going to mold together and merge together to be able to, you know, uh run for the long term.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And what I'll say to you is this you know, we we live in a world that's ever increasingly becoming more and more connected digitally.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: So the lot of the stuff that people see in other regions are the same stuff that people are seeing in the US, right?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's so easy to get access to all this information.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, what that means is chances are there is a show, James, that you watch that I've watched, but we just don't know it yet because we haven't gotten down to that conversation of us having a personal connection just yet, right?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm saying this in the respect of if you were to be a new client, for example.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um what I say to all and what we do as a process of of hiring is we say, look, we can present you three, four people on a technical level, we can all do the job.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: You choose who you want to work with.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because there'll be someone during that conversation where you there'll be a slight moment where you click personally, you go, I you know, they have the same sense of humor as me.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or I love the way that they've their viewpoint on the world, or I love the music that they listen to.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's always a very good starting point, and then it builds gradually over time the more and more they work together.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, my point is this we're far more connected than we can actually imagine ourselves to be.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I think sometimes the question is do we make efforts to uh you know deep down uh dive deeply into uh each other's personalities and traits?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: So for every customer we work with, we always say to our employees get to know them, you know, because it's a weird thing.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly sometimes you'd be surprised where some of our our customers may not necessarily know how to engage.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: So actually, sometimes the job is on us to break the walls.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I say to my team, ask them how their weekend was, by the way.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be shy to ask them.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they ask them how's your weekend?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's great.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I started watching Squid Game.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love Squid Game, and then suddenly, boom, there we are, and the connection builds from there.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's all possible.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's just so much like looping back here.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: It goes back to you at networking events, and it sounds like you just pass that along to your team of just be genuine and ask questions you genuinely want to know the answers to to get to know the person, and that just opens up a world of opportunity.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the bottom line is we're all people, we all have the same emotions.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, we all think the same things.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter where we are, we all we'll everyone has fear, everyone has joy, everyone has moments.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, just recognize that and and believe me, you go far.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's so good.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um you've said real growth happens through friendship.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: Not funnels for firm owners afraid to market.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: What does relationship-driven growth actually look like?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good question.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: It just looks like community.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like community.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: I will tell you this.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: So um I'm in a WhatsApp group of firm owners, a ton of firm owners.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you would expect an environment where on paper you're all competitors, right?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just be clear, you're all competitors.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: But in that environment, actually, what I see is someone saying, guys, you know, I'm trying to I'm trying out this new tech software.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's very frustrating.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: How how is anyone else going around this?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And someone will come and say, Oh, I use this, or actually, don't go near that, switch it to some something else.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or someone would say, Hey, I'm thinking of going to this event.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you guys think it's good?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, anyone I'm gonna be there, let me know when you get there, and then we'll we'll build together.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: So my point is the the community is where you need to go, is where you need to build.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And if I actually translate this to what this looks like online from a dude, because I think it's still important to have your online presence.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: When you build your community first, and then you start telling your story online, your community validates the story you're telling online.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because they they support you, they they validate and back you.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: So when other people are seeing credible people validate and support you, then they go, Oh, actually, hold on a second.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: This is somebody that we should pay attention to because they can they can do some help for us.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's my view.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: If if firm owners walk away with just one idea from this episode, what should it be?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Sound like a broken record.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Build your community.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Build your community.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: I only started learning this lesson, I promise you, seven months ago.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in March, when I first went to Austin South by Southwest.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was nervous.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know the people I was going to meet.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: And to this day, I have seen that same group of people six to five, six times.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I live in London, live in the US, but that's how many times I've been back out there.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: You have to build your community because also aside from growing your business, operating your business, they are the people that can relate to the troubles that you're going through.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're just having a tough time and a tough day of operating your firm and you know, maybe staffing issues, client issues, you know, nobody else would know the story better than the community of people that you formed.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: So focus on that, and that will get you super, super far.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: You you James, I'm gonna say it again.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: You won't regret it.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just won't.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's the best thing you can possibly do.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's so good.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Kwame, last question for you.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: This episode has been awesome.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited to uh for everyone to listen to this and hear the feedback and and questions and and for people to get engaged with you.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: But what's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like overall in life or in the in the in an accounting perspective?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Open-ended.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: You uh dealer's choice.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the I this is advice I've read.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and actually, funny enough, uh is in a book by Brene Brown, uh Daring Greatly, uh, because she was a keynote speaker at the Intimate Connect event.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm paraphrasing because I can't remember it word for word.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: But essentially, you know, if someone's not willing to get in the ring with you to fight your fight, you don't have to listen to them.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of the time people can give you advice, right?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll say this is what you need to do and this is how you need to do it.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it might not necessarily apply or it might be out of context, but what I look at it and say is okay, well, if you're telling me to do this, I'm the one who has to do it.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: If it goes wrong, are you gonna jump in and help me?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: It helps you, it helps you understand who your true friends are and partners are because the ones who say, Yeah, look, I'll jump in and I'll help you out with this, then you know that you're protected.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for those who don't and just sort of give advice from afar and walk away, I'd think twice about taking it.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's so powerful.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: That that paints such a uh clear picture of how to filter the advice you're getting.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, spots on because it's so easy to give advice, very hard to execute.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really easy to give advice when you're in the shadows to the person who's actually in the spotlight who needs to execute that that advice you're giving.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's that's awesome.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's gonna that's gonna stick in my head of yeah, would this person have my back if this goes south or if they were in my shoes, would they be doing the same thing?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Can I ask you that question?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's your podcast, but can I ask you that question?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it what's what's the best advice you'd receive?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to know.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, okay.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: This is the first time this has come back on me.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so used to asking the questions, so I'm just gonna talk here as I try to think of something.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the best piece of advice, I would say I just gotta pull it up here because you've caught me off guard, but the back of my phone, I don't know.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm one to I get really kind of absorbed or obsessed with certain quotes or frames a lot.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: So the one that comes to mind right now, and it's on the back of my phone, is nothing changes if nothing changes.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I constantly just find myself, all right, we're coming up on a new year.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, all right, do I want to obviously I don't want to relive the same last 12 months, you know, for the next 10, 15 years.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what are the things that have happened this past year that have gone really well?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: What are the things that maybe I didn't execute on that if I change those next year, things will be different?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: What are the things maybe I'm complaining about still 12 months um, you know, from 12 months ago that nothing's changed?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, nothing changes if nothing changes.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I like that love.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: Just go and implement the things that you're it's that, and I mean, not to go down a rabbit hole here, but you have what you tolerate is another one that a mentor's told me, and and that kind of falls in line with the nothing changes if nothing changes.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: So if there's something going on in your life that you're you're not thrilled with, just make a change.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, make a change.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um I love that you flip that back on me.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: That was the first time that's happened asking that question so much.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: Quell me, how can people get in touch with you?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: I want to I want to make sure people are able to have these amazing conversations with you.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: You provide an amazing service to your clients.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: How can people reach out to you, learn more about what you do, and um potentially even work with you?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I'm very, very present on LinkedIn.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, please reach out on LinkedIn.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you can find me, Kwame Aj, uh on LinkedIn, and uh you can go on our website, you can get in touch with us through our website as well.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: But the primary thing is reach out to us on LinkedIn.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: We're very active on there.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get back to you.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, sometimes if you want to reach out and have a conversation, I love having conversations.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, if there's a problem that you need support with, let us know.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're always happy to help.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: We'll make sure those links are in the show notes so people can get in touch.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Kwame, thanks again for coming on.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: This was amazing.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: I can't wait to see you at the uh the next event, wherever that may be.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Likewise, James.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's been an absolute pleasure.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of CFO Chronicles, The Secrets Behind Success.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you found value in today's conversation.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: First, make sure to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any future episodes.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: If you enjoyed today's discussion, please rate and review the show.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: It helps others discover the insights we share here.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: Second, if you're ready to take your business to the next level and attract the high-end clients you deserve, head over to accountingleadsnow.com or click the link in the show notes to book your strategy call.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's time to position yourself as the advisor your clients need.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: And don't forget, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to stay up to date on what's happening in the world of accounting and financial growth.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: We've got exciting topics coming up, so stay tuned for the next episode of CFO Chronicles.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: Until then, keep pushing forward.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: Your growth is just one strategic move away.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening to CFO Chronicles, the secrets behind success.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: We hope today's episode provided valuable strategies to help you attract more high-paying clients.
• 39:28
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