Latest / The Expert Method / Why Talent Isn’t Enough to Build a Creative Career
Transcript
- speaker-0: You have to see this as a business. However creative we are, however, talented you are, you have to have drive. The right people will fan your flame. The wrong people can put it out. Everyone assumes that person's come from nowhere, but they don't see the little moments that got them there. speaker-1: My guest today is Greg Watts. Greg is a musician, songwriter, and mentor who has spent more than two decades in the music business, including years of success in Japan, and he now spends much of his time developing other writers and musicians. In our conversation, we talk about why talent is not enough to build a creative career, like why you see so many incredibly talented creatives that never quote unquote make it. And what actually turns ability into something sustainable. Treating your work like a business, building the right relationships, and staying in motion long enough for opportunities to compound. If you get value from this conversation, be sure to subscribe and share it with a friend. And now please enjoy my conversation with Greg Watts. Greg, thank you so much for being here. speaker-0: Thank you for having me. It's it's a pleasure. speaker-1: Absolutely, I'm excited for this conversation. So, Greg, music and the creative entertainment world is such an insanely competitive industry. And what's always blown me away about this industry is that the average person in that industry, right? Just the average person that you walk by on the side of the road that's just playing their guitar, singing, is just so incredibly talented. Like you could just be at a bar with 50 people and this person on stage is just unbelievable. But then Only a select few people ever really turn that level of b of ability into a real career. And you've spent decades around people at every level of the journey. Right. So I think I would love to start with this idea of what separates the talented creatives from the ones who actually build a successful career? speaker-0: I think it's very much like the business world. You have to see it this as a business, however creative we are, however a talented you are, you have to have drive, you have to sort of turn up, you have to ⁓ run it like a business. You just I mean I've come across so same as you, so many talented people and you think, Why haven't you make it? And you can usually look in the background, it's like they just weren't efficient enough, they didn't turn up on top. Nowadays it's things like, you know, there's a there's a great ⁓ great singer but doesn't know how to use TikTok or social media and unfortunately that's the game now. So I I mean there's a one writer that I work with and she always introduces herself as a content creator. And I think straight away she knows what she's doing. 'Cause she's not thinking old school, I'm a songwriter, I'm an artist, I'm creating content for people. She's straight away thinking it as a business person, as the CEO of her own company. So I think it's very, very similar to everything else. You can't just have talent. You actually have to dedicate yourself, really focus and keep going. Never never give up. speaker-1: Yeah. That persistence I know is a big idea that you've shared on in other conversations that you had, the importance and the value of persistence, which is just one of those fundamental principles that can be applied to whatever it is that you're working on, whether you want to be a creative, you want to be a singer, you wanna be an artist, that persistence is required to achieve really anything. But I think that insight about, you know, fr as an outsider, right? I'm not a musician as much as I, you know play the guitar I like fumble my way through trying to learn how to play the guitar and everything, but I'm not a musician, I'm not an artist. But that idea of like the thinking of it as a business is definitely different than what I would expect. Right. I would think that you could just write amazing songs and then it will you know, it'll work out. So like what are the elements of the business side of this artistic industry? speaker-0: I mean it's it is a business. The music business is, you know, it depends how you what how you see it. If you want to become successful. So let's go back to when I was growing up and I wanted to get into the music. My first thought was how how do I how do I get my songs out? So actually I had a business brain. It was like we'll create a band. So I created a band and then started shopping myself as a singer and actually more b backgrounds and keyboards. But it was thinking about where's the marketplace. Where's the place that wants the songs? I think ⁓ you can just sit and play in your room. My brother was the best bass player in the world, but he played in his room, so no one ever discovered him. You can go and play at bars, no problem at all, if that's what you want to do. But actually the truth is you've got to think, where do you want to go? If you want to be number one on the Billboard charts, you've got to work out how to get there. And that's not just songwriting or Performing or ⁓ it's finding the right connections, finding the right management, representation, the best songs, connecting with lots I'm I mean, I was an advocate of big team you know, not big team, a strong team around you. Build your connections. The more connections you have, the more opportunities you get. And I always found in this business the be one of the best things was going, going to a conference, going to a big event and meeting people 'cause I'd find as soon as I met someone, it might not be and it's often not what I expected, but it was I was in the flow of we're a we're in a creative industry. So I believe you've got a flow with creation. You know, you've got to get out there, gotta be part of that, and as it as you do, things come flowing towards you as well. So Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. I mean, yeah, just it's all gonna be so it sounds like promotion, like being able to promote yourself, sell yourself, kind of get yourself into the right situations, create those opportunities for yourself, right? That's not gonna come from you just writing these songs or doing this work. Again, everything we're talking about today can be applied to any industry, anything that you're working on, right? You're not going to get anywhere by building amazing things in isolation. Right. You need to have the ability, the skill to go out and promote yourself and kind of sell your ideas, sell your style, your art, whatever it is. ⁓ and I love what you said there about. Being in the creative industry. Again, I think this applies to any industry where when you're creating something, you're building something, you're offering something, you're creating a product or service, you have to kind of move with the laws of creation and just kind of go. And like the universe, you know, the laws of creation kind of reward action and mo momentum and movement. So putting yourself out there, just saying yes, creating opportunities. Like, what can you say about what moving with the the laws of creation are like, what does that look like? Right? Is it Is there anything more to it than just saying yes and pursuing every opportunity? Like what does that look like? speaker-0: I mean I I definitely have my my experiences is when I've gone, I've bumped into something even though it wasn't ⁓ necessarily what I was looking for. What what is the laws of that? That is I do think it's you know, s ⁓ someone one of my writing friends said to Just jump in the river and you'll get you know, it will take you w take you somewhere. So go with the flow, go with the momentum. I noticed I know the business and life really. You can get to this point where The ball stops rolling. And when the ball stops rolling, it's very hard to pick the ball up and kick it again or or move it forward again. Actually it's much easier to move it or pass it along or move it into space when you actually are are running with it or flowing with it anyway. So a moving object is much seems to be much easier to actually direct. Even if you're slightly going in the wrong direction, you could be redirected. And I've got hundreds of stories of where I've gone and I've gone, Wow, how did that happen? And actually I've gone home and thought, if I hadn't have gone, that's the more im you know, that's the that's the lesson. If I hadn't have gone, I wouldn't have met this person. I wouldn't have got that business opportunity. So I think it is saying yes. I got an example of this one with the ⁓ I said yes to I was asked to go and basically I I was I was asked to give a speaker at a conference in Russia and I wasn't really a speaker. ⁓ at that point. But my f it was my friend who was organising it and I thought, I'll say yes, I'll go. And then I bec went and gave a conf two speeches at his conference. People liked it. I got invited back five or six years. I met lots of other speakers who invited me to their conferences. And once I got an email from Taiwan saying, Please come to our conference, we're going to pay you five thousand dollars. And I was very excited by this. I s looked up tickets and replied yes, I'll come. Next thing I look l re reread it and it said Taiwanese dollars. So I was going for what the equivalent of a hundred and twenty five, a hundred and thirty pounds all the way across the world. But I thought, well, I'll go anyway. And I got looked after at an amazing hotel. I had one meeting that led to we were at a something called the GMA Awards. And that led to a us doing an album mix of a Taiwanese Aboriginal artist. Which then won an award at the next year's conference. And then we got another mix and then we got another mix. So we got ten thousand equivalent of ten thousand pounds just from me saying yes to the conference. And that's without all the other bits I I got added on. So it's almost like just go with your instinct, you know, in a in a sense. And speaker-1: Yeah. And maybe instinct maybe not might not be the right cause your instinct might be to be kind of scared and like fearful and like avoid those kinds of things and feel like, ⁓ no, that's a distraction. But I think there's so much good stuff to unpack and what you just shared, right? It's like the like one thing that I just wrote down is in the beginning, it's more about the people, not about the money. Right. It's more about the connections, the people that you might meet, the the connections that you might create, the relationships that you might build, than it is about making money with every single thing that you do. Like when you're first starting out, you need to create this energy, you need to create this ⁓ these sparks, right, to kind of s light the flame of whatever your eventual career is gonna be. That's gonna come through people, right? Every industry, every work that you do is people serving people. Everything that you need is in the mind or in the Rolodex of another person. And that's something that I've experienced in my own anecdotal experience, right? Is In the early days, right, you're you're unproven, right? Nobody, you're not in demand, right? Nobody needs or wants really what you have. Like you haven't proven yourself. So you need to ⁓ do the hard work of, you know, proving that, demonstrating that, building those relationships with other people that can kind of become your early advocates and kind of spread your name around. So I like that idea of like in the early days, it's more about the people and creating those connections ⁓ and building those relationships than it is about making money with every single thing that you do. speaker-0: Totally. And the right people. 'Cause you you the right people will fan your flame. The wrong people can put it out. So in a sense I had two business partners and they're both great in their own ways. But one of them would say, ⁓ are you sure you should go? Are you luckily the other one would yes you should go. So in a sense, having the right people around you, that was great because it could cause sort of brought balance to the team. But I've seen people say the negative things over people. I it's actually a strangely I had this I bumped into someone at the s ⁓ service station today, someone I'd n not seen for twenty three years, and who I used to work in a bank. And when I left the bank, she was working at the bank and she must have left the bank as well, 'cause she told me she left twenty-three years ago. And I just remembered, she said to me, she was a mortgage advisor, and she came out of the room once and said she had a publishing contract with there was a writer who was trying to get a mortgage with this publishing contract, and she plonked it on the desk and said, This is something you'll never have. Kind of jokingly, but it's stuck. And I I didn't say today, but I've had a lot more than a publishing contract. But s silly little things like that, she w if I was the glass half empty type person, I could have given up. So having the wrong people around you is just an example, you know, you you want people to say positive things and push you and ⁓ say go rather than no. You're not very good. And yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, you want people who are gonna fan that flame and ⁓ encourage you to chase and pursue the crazy dream, whatever that is for yourself. Yeah. Not people who are gonna try and yeah. speaker-0: Which is little bit crazy. That's that's part of it. There is an element of I look back now and I think there was a few people who didn't believe in work my dream. And actually I can see why. But there was a few people around that did, and actually I think we all had to be a bit delusional to go forward. But actually there's an element of that's kind of the important part. Do you tend to find that people who are I so all the people I've found that are very good at business, very rich, very have also nearly gone bankrupt. I've also had big loss. And it's that element of they took the risk and it could go one way or the other. They've then found bet you know, a better way, you know, and improved and things like that. But there's a risk to this in a sense. And sometimes you have to take a risk. So speaker-1: For sure. Yeah. I mean if you're It's inherent, right? But for you, you were working in that bank, right? Working in the the mortgage business, whatever it was. What made you say, Okay, it's time, I'm gonna go chase this crazy dream? speaker-0: It was so I'd have been doing music since I was so since I was eleven, twelve, probably trying to do it, trying to write, trying to but I started to do it seriously. It's more at school and then after at college. And I got a record deal. Just with a strange one of a Japanese dentist, it turned out, but she had money behind her. And I was nearly there. But I was also working in the bank. And what happens is you I got remember getting married and settling down and you you want a rus you know, get more and more responsibility and the more and more responsibility you get, the more bills you pay and then she will have to stay in the bank. And it was killing me, to be honest. As a creative person, however, you know, money's not that was not the object. My creativity needed to come out. And I was going I was doing one session every two weeks of about two hours. And there was a point where I s I kind of felt if I don't go I'm just gonna end up working in the bank and that's it. So I just remember feeling that my wife is going to tell me at some point, you need to go you need to give it a try. And I waited a couple of years. I put her through university. ⁓ and then she came. I actually excelled at the bank at the end of it. I actually got a job that I didn't want. I thought they're gonna make me redundant and they gave me the best job. And I was like, ⁓ And at this point I then had to say I accepted it and then about a week later I went back and said This isn't what I want. I've got to leave. And I did nine and nine weeks notice. Was very honourable. I was then the best salesperson in the south of England 'cause I was really I I don't know, a year on a again I'm on this flame of I'm going I'm going. But I it's almost like I I had to. I couldn't stay in the non nothing wrong with being in a bank and if that's what you want to do and things things, but I was a songwriter, I was a there's something in here that I had to come out and staying where it was, it was either die it was either kill it Or I had to go and give it a proper try. So I left for a year. And then during that year, we kind of said, if I'd not earning money by the end of the year, then I'll go back. And at the end of the year, twelve month twelve, I wasn't I was so close. And we kind of said, Let's give it three more months. And actually on month thirteen, I got offered a job to set up a publishing department for a record company. And it was like perfect. It was like I was writing songs for this company and they could see that I was selling them. And they were then like, Well, we're gonna pay you to do the exact thing. Okay. And actually it wasn't a brilliant company as inethically, but I sort of found out later. But the people that were running it were risk takers. And they took a risk on me and it trained me. They didn't train me, I trained on the job. But all came from me leaving the bank, taking a step, faith really, getting this other job, almost taking that as a step as well and learning. Sorry, back to your question of I kinda had to go. It was It was killing me if I didn't and ⁓ something was c you know, calling me out and once I was out it was almost like ⁓ free. So it was so strange seeing the lady lady this morning as well, twenty three years later. No feeling. And we both live in different places, so meeting us bumping into someone at a service station. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. Yep. You know, there's no such thing as coincidence. It's ⁓ but it's funny how the world works sometimes, kind of bringing that to a full circle moment and like the universe almost just kind of checking in with you and you can kind of little reminder of ⁓ of what could have been and where you started. But yeah, for you it's just kind of that intuitive sense and knowing, ⁓ like capital K knowing that this is not for me, right? This is not gonna fit. And you could almost like envision what the future would look like and almost the regret that you would feel if twenty years from now you're looking back and re realizing like If I never took this chance, I would regret it for the rest of my life. And it was just that dread inside you is what forced you to take this crazy leap and right, take that and work for thirteen months with it not working and kind of fueled your fire to give you that extra three months, which then ultimately created that opportunity, which is so cool. And I feel like in every conversation that we've had here today, it's been every guest that we've had has been a person who has taken that crazy bet on themselves to go out and f find a way to make it work. And ⁓ It's worked out. Right. It's just if you have that if it is truly something that you want to do and you're out there taking action, right? Creating that friction, right? Creating that, ⁓ those sparks, right? Going out meeting the people, like those breaks will happen. Right. And I think going back to your earlier point, ⁓ one of the ideas that I took from what you shared is that it's not gonna be like one big break, right? It's not gonna be like one big moment that things just kind of start to work out. It's just like a bunch of small, little unplanned things that you could have never predicted that ultimately lead you Back on track to like where you had initially set the intention to be. speaker-0: Yeah. We s yeah, I agree. We we kinda especially in the music business, you see overnight success. Everyone assumes that person's come from nowhere, but they don't see the little moments that got them there. And I I believe that very very wholeheartedly that it's each step gets you to c closer to to that particular to the bigger picture. I don't think I'm there yet. I don't think I've reached my my biggest bit yet. I think I'm very close, but ⁓ I don't think I'm quite there yet, so speaker-1: Yeah. So what are you doing, ⁓ like now that you are established or you've been in this business for, you know, many years? Like what are those things that you've still retained from those early days? Like are you still pretty prioritized on like people? Obviously now you're at the point where you're charging six significant money, like you're making good money doing what you're doing. So maybe it's not so much like the people over dollars kind of thing, but what characteristics of those early days, Greg Watts, ⁓ are still a part of how you operate today? speaker-0: I would say nearly all I think then I was doing it without knowing it. Now I look back and I know, okay, that worked. Why let's make that. It is for me, it is about the people. ⁓ I work with lots a small team and then a team around them and then another team around them and then we've got another s so it is about people. The money side I ⁓ it's been up and down over years, you know, in a sense and it's not a hundred percent massively good at the moment 'cause the music industry's di dying off. But but We're still here twenty three years later. Most important thing is I enjoy it. I still have a passion for it. Even if it's developed and it's now to developing other writers, more more mentorship, more my own book writing, that has really become a passion. ⁓ it's interesting, I'm now telling my story, whereas for twenty years of writing songs with other people, you're kind of telling their story. So it's it's gone full circle, and I believe when I started, I don't know if I sat there and thought ⁓ as a thirteen year old, I want to tell my story. I just then it was I want to be successful. But actually I think the creative thing, when you look back as an older older man, you kind of think I just wanted the world to hear my story. Mm that if you look you think back, so now I'm telling it again, but I wasn't for twenty years, I was telling other people's so which 'cause I was kind of working for them in that sense when you're writing. You work for the artists. Course course it's their story. We want to No one wants to hear Greg watch the songwriter's story behind the the artist. They want to hear the artist that's singing it. ⁓ so it's it has it's similar the the ethics and the framework is the same, just more tight, just more I know exactly what works. And I'd say the passion went away a bit when I was most successful. And some the money took over and the bad people came, actually. That was that was when I had to really check myself and now I'm back to passionate about it and I've got the right people around me. So not to say the bad people, it the people that were there for the wrong reasons. They were there for their gain. They were there f so actually it's I've learned to recognise that and still you can work with people that can do that, but you you go into it with a different your eyes open in a sense. speaker-1: Can you tell me a little bit more about that experience? So once the money started becoming more and more of your focus, that se sounds like it kind of almost took you off track. And all ultimately the ingredients of coming off track were the people that it kind of got you connected with and in and in bed with ⁓ in business is like when the money became more important. Can you tell me a little bit more about what that looked like? speaker-0: Yeah, and again I don't know if it was any specific it wasn't specific people or anything like that, but I th there was a point where we were very, very successful in Japan. ⁓ and we we still are reasonably successful in Japan, but we were the first UK company out there. And I think that's one of the marks of our company as well, because we're often looking at a market where no one else is interested in going and then things like JPOP and K pop are now very big. But we were there for sort of first, so it the market's much easier at that point. But because we were, everyone wanted to slice. You know, and everyone wanted to be a part of it. And everyone's so suddenly you get everyone coming at you at once. And there's an element of we didn't know how to manage that 'cause we didn't didn't so that's that's probably our most successful period was where we were just number one in Japan all the time. And number one in Japan also means you're number one in the world for a week 'cause they sell so many ⁓ C Ds in those days and the next week it drops off completely. And I said I was still working with a lot of the people that were around then, the core team, but it did attract a lot of people where they just wanted in and they didn't want to be ⁓ a giver as well, if that makes sense. Yeah. You know, that you got you start to learn that someone's come into the studio and they ask you questions about the business and then they keep asking you questions about the business and you if you ever ask the sa something back, never ever gets reciprocated. So it's you start to think, Well, this person's literally asking for my knowledge all the time and or insight and it's hmm, maybe I should just start to keep quiet because speaker-1: Yeah. To protect how you want to operate, yeah. speaker-0: That's not how I am. I'm I come from a family where we fostered loads of ⁓ kids. So we're very open, very open house. And I think that's affected me a lot in a good way. But also that means you do t you can get ⁓ manipulated because you get some bad things come through as well. So but actually the majority's been good. So and the that the the good outweighs the negative as well. So speaker-1: Yeah. So the money can kind of almost distort and, you know, bring people in who aren't bought into the like your reason for doing what you do, right? They don't have the same passion, they don't have the same ethos, enjoyment, right? And in doing what you do, right? And doing it for the yeah more creative reasons. They're they're there for like the financial gain that they can make for themselves with this just saturates the whole spirit of what you're doing, which can completely pollute the ⁓ to performance and how you go about doing what you do, right? There's it can have yeah, massive impacts. speaker-0: Yeah, and don't get me wrong, there's no I you know, I do want I need to earn money from it so I can carry on doing it. That's not it's not ⁓ it's not the money, it's the only money part. Yeah. We had a guy we had a guy come in who we in his forties, he'd retired, and he wanted us to teach him how to do music and we ⁓ long story about we did, and he h he became very successful. But one of his things he taught us without knowing it is he'd come in and when we had a release, he would celebrate and he'd go and get a bottle of champagne and he'd bring it in and say, This is really excit and he was, you know, so excited about this. And we were a little bit like we've forgotten to celebrate when we've been successful. And it's it's interesting. It's like him just giving us that little message made us some of the passion about it. It is not easy to get a release. It's not easy to get this. It's not easy to get to number one. But we were so I always happened last week, it's happened this week. You you get to that like that and you start taking it for granted. But actually the truth is this next month it might not be there. So celebrate it while it is, in a sense. speaker-1: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Cause that hit home for me. It's like it's really easy to just get caught up in the day to day and just, you know, beating yourself up. And, you know, it's natural for anybody who's crazy enough to go out and take a bet on themselves to figure out how to create their own value in the world and like start their own business and stuff. You're gonna be mm probably more naturally oriented to be pretty like critical of yourself in a lot of ways. So when you, you know build the business, right? You're years into this thing. It's easy to get caught up in the day to day and forget the fact that what you're doing now is what you dreamed of doing your whole life, like growing up. Like when you're in that bank, like you dreamed of being in the situation that you're in right now. And those little reminders, those clients that you can have who are super excited and really celebrate can help bring you back into celebrating the the wins that you do have. And ⁓ it's incredible the amount of energy that you can pull from something like that. Like when you remember to celebrate the little things Even if they're not, you know, such little things, but celebrate those wins and, you know, celebrate yourself and and the good things that you're doing. That energy can really carry you forward in a lot of ways, right? It's that positivity and that fanning the flame that can happen. speaker-0: Yeah, I don't think you the you hear the word dream. I had a dream when I was younger. I became successful. I sort of forgot the dreamy bit, you know, and then that's what's come back, the dream and the passion. And now it's like, I want to share that dream. I want to share that with others because others can have that too and can can actually do better and do get there quicker than I did and all that sort of thing. So there's an element and that's that's I found out, I don't know, late thirties, probably when I was forty that I did a strengths finder test. I don't know if you've ever seen the book where then and I thought I was a ⁓ communicator, all these things and and the th th the highest thing was developer. As soon as I knew I was a developer, that meant I'm at my best when I see others succeed that I've developed. So that that sort of turned me into this is exciting. This is what I want to do. So the switch was from me songwriting to developing other songwriters. Again, circle again now to meet me writing my own story, but I'm also developing writers by telling my story. So ⁓ it's and I'm excited about that now. Whereas I don't I think when I was that successful and it was just turning up to work and it was there stressful when I'd go home and someone's arguing about how what the splits were and I remember remember once being in the session and people just this this mount and this person didn't do this, it's this split and this is how much, you know, there's four writers in a room and someone said this one didn't do something. So and then I go home and I had ⁓ I've got twin girls And they come running to me at the door. They'd probably about one, what just started to walk, and they'd run to me and say, Daddy, Daddy, they, you know, really excited to see me at work. And I'd be like, Why are we worried about a split? ⁓ three percent here or four percent there. And it just teach kids so good at teaching you to come back to nor you know, come back to reality, come back to real life. And then dream again, you know, in a sense, because there's an element of they see it simply. speaker-1: Yeah. Right. And that is our natural inclination, right? You see it in kids. Like I I hadn't had a a baby in my life. Like my my brother just had a his first child. So I became an uncle like about a year and a half ago. So see her all the time. Yeah. And it's incredible. Just like the natural inclination is just like, you know, happy, loving, kind of dreamer, like very imaginative, right? That is our natural inclination. And then, you know, the world, this fiction that we create kind of veers us off course and gets us worried about, stressed about things that really just do not matter. ⁓ and it's just finding ways to come back and reconnect with that, you know, not to use a a buzzword, but like, you know, that childlike kind of dreamer ⁓ within all of us will and finding ways back to that will help us to connect with the work that ⁓ ignites that within us. And then that's where, you know, we can really pour ourselves into something and our creative energy and like our uniqueness can really shine through. And I think that connects me back with another idea that you had mentioned that, you know, with songs, with music, right, you're telling a story. Right. And the more authentic that story is, it's gonna resonate with people, right? They're gonna feel that authenticity and how much that creator, that artist really is that story, like lived that story. So this is something about music that has just really fascinated me. You know, I read Rick Rubin's ⁓ The Creative Act, I think is what it's called. ⁓ and that's a very ethereal book for that concept. But, you know, music is just a strange and amazing thing. ⁓ right. Somehow just like, you know, a few words, a melody. And some sounds can like really just hit and pull on the emotions and stay with you for decades and take you back to a time. Right. So there's something just magical about the idea of music. And you've spent, you know, most of your life and career like actually creating it. So after writing songs for decades, where do you think like a great song comes from? And like what makes a great song? Like is that that authenticity, that spirit part of it? speaker-0: Yeah, I think w I've searched for formulas for you know, we as we've all done, we've all searched for the formula of how to write a particular hit. I think there's some sort of magical moment that happens, particularly when I I almost feel like we're creat again but this might sound weird, I don't know, but we're sort of creative vessels and if we put ourselves in the right place, something comes. Same again, same with the going into the place. I mean, I was watching ⁓ last year I had back surgery. And I had to have a a month off work and one of the things I did was watch all the great films and and I watched ⁓ a Beatles movie about it was called Get Back. It was so long, it was about three episodes and it's nine hours. But during this, Paul McCartney's playing the guitar, they're all playing the guitar and he's he's ⁓ got the melody to get back, but he hasn't got the words. the right mur so it's almost like allow he's put himself and this is what I believe we go put ourselves in the studio. Doesn't mean we're going to come up with something creative, but we're gonna we could be in the right place to actually something to receive that amazing thing. A lot of it we're doing on our own and but in our own strength and love with and as well. But there's some sort of creative thing that comes, I think, for those really special ones. And actually that can be with an artist that's singing it as well. Or Obviously an artist can actually hear someone else's song and interpret as well. A great artist can you know, Stevie Wonder used to do this. You to hear s could sing someone else's song. George Michael used to sing Stevie Wonder songs. And they would so they can sing someone else's song just the same way as they can sing their own song. But it's is a lot about do you believe? So I do a lot of this thing called Eurovision. It's a TV show. It's it is you you vote for the person you believe. So the The artist has to connect with the song and the song and the artist need to connect with the audience. So yeah, so I'm so that I think it's hard to say. We have to put ourselves in the position to receive. I've definitely seen it where just things happen and you think, wow, wow, where did that come from? The best songs are very quick, I find. Very, very quick. The inspirational bit. Then you can, you know, you might need to write lyrics for a bit longer and things like that. But it's there is no formula, it's just putting yourself in the right place, put yourself in a I work in teams of two or three or four. S three usually means if you're not in a good place, someone else might come in with that magic spark today. And that spark sparks you and it goes around the room. So it's for allow putting yourself into place but allowing for allowing yourself to sort of receive the creativity. I think it's not just music. I think, you know, where does it all where does the art come from? Where does it's somewhere? Yeah. speaker-1: Right. It's like I completely agree with you with the idea that we're like creative vessels. We're almost like antennas that can like receive this you know, I I I I like how you use it like it's it's received more than it is like us creating it. Like we receive these ideas from somewhere and then it's on us, it's our opportunity to take the actions necessary to bring this thing that we're receiving and make it into reality. Like that's the almost like the Yeah. Yeah. The the reason for being. speaker-0: Someone, you know, let's say go back to Paul Paul McCartney again. He woke up one morning, I can't remember and had got I think it was yesterday, ⁓ in his head. Was it that one or was it Let It Be? It was one about his mother, so it was Let It Be. Got it in his head. Let it be, let it be. But he he didn't just leave it in his head. He sat down and played the piano and Let It Came, Let It Come. But he was kind of he dreamt it, which tells me the subconscious is quite part of this. Yeah. It's and ⁓ in a way creative people are a bit more in touch with their subconscious or or or with that creative part, I think. speaker-1: Yeah. And I think going back to the people who, you know, build a successful career, obviously there's the tactical know-how of navigating the business world, but like the fundamental characteristic of every single person, I think everyone receives those ideas. Everyone receives those dreams. Everybody has something unique within them that's calling for them to go out and make it. They have these ideas of things that they can go do. It's the people that take the action, that take this dream, this idea, and put it like go and just start taking action, start taking messy movement. Towards bringing this thing out and bringing it into reality. And I think, you know, the more that you do that, the more in tune and in touch you become with those ideas, with those dreams, with those things that are calling to you or that you're receiving. ⁓ Yeah. Because like you you build up like a better ear for listening to it or something. Yeah, I'm not sure. speaker-0: It's practice as well, I think, you know, and putting putting yourself in the right place. Watching that Paul McCartney thing again, I kind of looked in and thought he there's an element he looks a bit bit of a nutter doing that. But also I thought, that's exactly what we do. It was so close to it was just ⁓ but he wasn't gonna give up. He was gonna let you know, he's gonna g he's going until it's coming through. ⁓ let's say Ringo, he was distracted. He went off somewhere else, he was, you know, he he hadn't got the discipline to That's not his character. Paul McCartney, he wasn't going going anywhere until that had formed into something. speaker-1: So yeah, that persistence idea for sure. And then it's the idea of like the more that you build that muscle of taking things and making them a reality, right? Taking these ideas, these dreams, these things that you're receiving and bringing it into the world. I feel like, you know, the more action you're gonna take. And like for Paul McCartney, right? When he was twelve years old, I don't know what his whole story is. Maybe he was an absolute musical savant at that time. But his ear and like what he could hear and what he could receive was like more developed, the more, you know, ability he had to play music, right? Like he could hear more sounds, the more sounds he was able to create. So like just the practicing of learning how to, you know, in the music world, like okay, learning to play the piano, learning to play the guitar, learning to sing, right? Learning these different instruments will give you the ability to almost hear those sounds and ⁓ and receive more. And then that idea again can be applied to anything that you're building, right? The more that you learn about, you know, marketing and sales or whatever in your business, the more ideas or that are gonna stew in the subconscious that you're gonna be able to receive because your context is just like expanded. So yeah. The speaker-0: And the and the people. 'Cause that's for you know 'cause if John Lennon is with Paul McCartney, they're pushing each other. If you read I think it was Paul Paul McCartney's book, you know, they didn't they wrote together at the beginning, but afterwards they would write on their own, come in and present it to the other guy and they both were getting a credit and the other one would develop it maybe at the end or something. But the truth was is they were pushing each other. Y this is my great song, let it be. And then John's going, He's written, Let it be. ⁓ Okay, strawberry fields. Strawberry Fields. So we're going up like this that so and and they're also both in the same place where they're open to hear the those so you're with another catalyst. Yeah. In a sense. So it's pushing each it's pushing each other. So I've I've seen that again, the right partnerships, right you know, really r can push you forward again. Also, if someone's stopping your flow, you know, don't that's the same with the business. Find someone else, 'cause that's not gonna work. I say. speaker-1: Yeah. Right. Yeah. If somebody's just complete if somebody's stunting that process, like that's robbing you from, you know, the other things that you can receive, the other things that you can do, and just stopping the delicate momentum that comes from trying to take this dream and make it a reality, it's ⁓ it can be hard because it's Yeah. It's easy to doubt yourself along the way and like think you're crazy 'cause it is kind of nuts. But ⁓ yeah, if you can find somebody else who ha also is just like another antenna for these ideas and is, you know, willing to take action and and do the work to bring this thing into reality at collaborating with that other person. Yeah, it's definitely where a lot of magic can happen. But yeah, Greg, thank you so much for your time today. I really enjoyed our conversation. I have one final question for you. It's a recurring question that I ask every guest. But before I get to that, how can people find you? speaker-0: So I'm on social media, on ⁓ Facebook and Instagram. ⁓ just put in Greg Watts and the spelling is G R E I G. ⁓ very easy to find. My parents accidentally called me something very ⁓ very easy to find which was good. ⁓ they didn't know about the internet back then. ⁓ my website www.dwbmusicgroup dot com or there's a lot about what we've been talking about. I've got my book out, which is keeping the dream alive, and that's on Amazon. So speaker-1: Love it. Amazing. Yeah, we'll have the links to everything in the description. yeah, there's a lot of different kinds of people that can benefit from the work that you have done. So I really appreciate everything that you've done to bring that to the world and share that with all of us. So thank you for that. Links in the description. Go check out Greg's work. Greg, my final question for you, as I mentioned, is a recurring question that I ask every guest. But Greg, if you had a giant billboard that everyone in the world could see for ten seconds with like one message to the world, what would it say and why? speaker-0: Start the journey even if you're not ready. speaker-1: And everyone knows what that journey is for them. speaker-0: Yeah. But there's so many people stopping you or there's fear stopping you. But if you start, you'll find your way. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: You you'll just say at home and you know, or whatever, so speaker-1: Right. And I can empathize with that person because I've let, you know, kind of almost irrational fear if you like think of Yeah. Yeah. Like get in the way. But it's like for that person who has this dream for themselves, this thing that they want to go do and they're scared, like there's almost like a fear. Like what would you say to that person? Like where does that fear come from? Can you empathize with that person? speaker-0: Me too. Yeah, ⁓ I I came from a family full of autism and anxiety. I've come across it a lot in the ⁓ it's a strange place. The music industry, the creative industry. There's all these people who put themselves in a fear industry of rejection. Yeah, they're seeking approval sort of thing. So it's a real r an irrational fear, it is a real fear. There's things that actually have made you feel that way and made you have the irrational fear. Something's happened to make it be. But you you need people around you who just say, No, I've got your back. Yeah, I've got your back. Let's go together Or I'm gonna stand behind you as you go in a sense 'cause I think once you find like minded people who've been in the same boat and they probably are going to be fearful too, but there's something about you know, there's a wall to knock down, it's gonna be very hard for me to knock it down. But if I get three of my friends and they're all pushing at the same time, we're gonna get it over quickly. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: So it's ⁓ and it's easier in a group team in a sense. So just I think f if you can find some other people, like minded people that are in the same place and they will help you with that because you'll just you won't feel like you're alone or isolated in it. speaker-1: Yeah. Absolutely. And you can take a story out of or ⁓ a lesson out of your story, ⁓ which is you can treat it as an experiment, right? Kind of just give yourself a timeline. It's like, all right, twelve months. I'm gonna give myself twelve months to figure this out, a month, three months, six months, whatever to figure this out. And ⁓ yeah, just give yourself treat it like a little experiment. You don't have to have it all figured out. speaker-0: Yeah, there's there's a there's a s a lot of people sort of say, What if this happens? What if that and I kind of just reverse that. What have you got to lose? And actually when you think about what have you got to lose, it's actually, well, someone might laugh at me. Some it's someone might think I'm a bit but actually the older you get, the more you realise it really doesn't matter what people think of you. Yeah. The only ones it matters is the people that you know, you you your your partner, your wife, your your kids. Those are the people that are important, your parents in a sense. for friends. Doesn't matter what someone thinks of you on Facebook or across the world, because most of them I mean, I I come across this a lot with with again music business, it's lots and lots of criticism from people who sit behind the computer and don't actually do anything. speaker-1: Yeah. Right. Exactly. speaker-0: You just there's a lot and also in this business there's a lot of people that do like what you do, but actually there'll be people that have got another opinion that don't. What does it matter? So you got you got nothing to lose apart from if you sit still, I can guarantee you you won't get there. Whereas if if you move, you've got a chance. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Greg, thank you so much for the time. speaker-0: Okay, thank you for having me. speaker-1: Thank you for listening. My main takeaway from this conversation is that creative ideas seem to come through you as much as from you. Right. I like the way that Greg described us as sort of like creative vessels with our antennas open and we're there to kind of receive these ideas or sounds or, you know, whatever it is for for our our trade. Or you can put yourself in the right environment, practice your craft, keep working, but sometimes the best ideas just kind of arrive, right? And there's almost that. serendipity or chance or you know luck that comes. You know, you have to put yourself in the right situations, put yourself in front of people, just stay in motion. Should create a lot of opportunities. But at the end of the day, ideas, creativity, intuition, these are things that seem to come from a from a different place. And it's cool to hear that somebody from who has worked in this business for as long as as Greg has, that idea resonates with him and he he absolutely sees that that's the that's the case. Like that's pretty freaking cool. So If you want to get connected with Greg Watts, you can find his links in the description of this episode. I encourage you to go check all of that out. And if you run a coaching program course mastermind or you're an author and you want more of your clients and readers to actually follow through on what you teach, I put a free resource in the description that will help you build more execution support in your program and help you to get your clients or your audience better results from the content that you create. Thank you for listening, and I'll see you in the next one.