Latest / The Pressing Play Podcast / Ep11 Pressing Play with Yula Andrews and the power of singing in Menopause
Transcript
- Joanne Fiddy: welcome Yula Andrews. It is incredible to see you here. Thank you so much for coming in. Hello. I'm ⁓ excited you're on the podcast. ⁓ going through my notes before you came on and just getting more and more excited. We are talking about singing. We are talking about your journey. We're going to be talking about the brain. As I was saying before, I geek out and there's even holidays included in this chat. Like this is... Yula Andrews: Hello, hello, thank you for having me. Joanne Fiddy: Hello and welcome back to the Pressing Play podcast. I'm your host, Jo Fiddy, and it is an absolute joy to have you here. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for being part of the Pressing Play movement. ⁓ And I have to say, my loves, ⁓ I ⁓ am ⁓ loving the pod. am really loving being part of this because... Yula Andrews: It's got everything. Joanne Fiddy: It's everything. This is like the bingo card of the full house of all things brilliant. I love it when I bring guests on, I want them to have that of pop press play energy and you've got that in beams. So let's get started. ⁓ For really discovering you for the first time, ⁓ who Yula Andrews? And tell us more about you. The guests that are coming in and the stories that I'm hearing are inspiring me every day. And this next guest is no exception. I just can't wait for you to listen to this one. We have the extraordinary Yula Andrews. She is the founder of Pop Chorus, a string of feel-good choirs dedicated to the joy of singing. And this was inspired by her own midlife journey. Yula Andrews: Well, I'm Yula. I'm ⁓ recently turned 50 and I'm a singer originally from the West Country, now living in Suffolk. And about 14 years ago, I founded a choir. So having been classically trained singer doing all the of classical stuff for I also to sing karaoke and folk and jazz and sang in Abba tributes and all sorts of things. For me, singing is just the voice is the most versatile instrument you can possibly imagine. And ⁓ in the Joanne Fiddy: Yula noticed the positive effect singing can have on menopause and has recently launched a menopause singing group dedicated to supporting midlife women. This was a goodie and I can't wait for you to hear it and a massive thank you to Yula for coming on the pod. Yula Andrews: like a piano, don't know if your piano doesn't know if you're playing Rachmaninoff or Jerry Lee Lewis and the voice is the same, you can just use all these different colors and genres and apply anything to it and it's so versatile. But one of the things I really notice is when you sing with other people it just, it is exponentially better than doing it on your own and the impact it has on people is incredible. So 14 years ago I started a choir, my first baby was just four months old, I put some posters up and a few people came along and pop chorus was born. And then jump forward now 14 years, we've got about seven choirs in Suffolk all around the area. got a whole team of people, an administrator and a team of choir leaders. ⁓ see over 400 people in the choir. We've now got a CIC arm, community pop chorus, ⁓ lots of work in care settings. So I think every week we probably see five or 600 people from Suffolk and really help them boost their mental health and their wellbeing and make friendships. Joanne Fiddy: I love this so much. I love this so much. And we were just saying earlier, I'm originally from Norfolk and if I come home on the summer holiday, I'm have to find where you are. I want to come for a sing-along. Really, I want to come for a sing-along. And when you started Pop Chorus, did you ever imagine it would grow so big? Like there's seven choirs, like hundreds and hundreds of singers, festival appearances and like national Did you ever expect that when you first started? Yula Andrews: No, and it's still not, ⁓ I don't run it as a big greedy business at all. We grow organically. So my choir leaders, I've got a lovely team of choir leaders, but they've all come through the choir. They have been singers and members of the choir. We have an ethos in our choir, which is really about having a kind of buffer of kindness in everything we do. And it's only really if you've been on the other side, on the choir singing side of that, that you fully get it. And so then I find people who are particularly musical, really get the ethos, have the right personality, who, you know, I'm comfortable sitting and sharing ideas with. And these people have now become part of my team. I've got this amazing team of women. And so they run choirs for me. So we've grown organically. It's not a big commercial, you know, I'm never going on Dragon's Den with this thing, but it's a beautiful sort of beast of a business. But now I never imagined it would turn into this. Joanne Fiddy: It's incredible. Well, that's why though, because it's such incredible energy and you're coming at this from such a heartfelt place, such a soulful place. You were also recently named part of the 50 leading lights in kindness and leadership. Yula Andrews: Yeah, that was such an honour. Somebody in my choir nominated me and actually a few of them wrote the most wonderful testimonies that I saw afterwards. And then I just got an email out of the blue saying, you are one of this year's 50 kindness and leadership winners. And I went off to the Mexican embassy in London where they say, welcome to Mexico. Would you like a mojito? Well, all right then. And to be with other people who, in all kinds of different businesses, there were politicians, people from the NHS, sports, who embody this same kind of kindness, this belief that you don't have to be really hard-nosed and cynical and unkind in order to do well. You can have success, but not at other people's expense. And I'm such a firm believer in that. It's like threw me like a stick of rock, you the whole kindness thing, it's so, so important. Joanne Fiddy: We need more of this in the world. We, especially now more than ever, we need this more in the world. And you've been named like the UK's friendliest choir, but also someone's, which I just love it. I mean, I'm already in, I'm like, right, where do I, when I come back, where am I going? But for someone who's coming in for the first time and they're listening now and they're going, I really want to go. What can they expect? What's happening when they walk through the door? Yula Andrews: haha I think that's the hardest bit, know, building up the courage to come in. So people contact us first of all, and they have a nice sort of email exchange with me or with Gemma, our administrator, and we'll kind of explain how it all works. And they come along, and I know it's really hard to walk in the door, you know, there's a babble of noise. But inevitably, somebody in that room will look around and go, that's a new face. And they will come and say hi, or they'll catch you outside and go, are you looking for the choir? Come on in. You might just been passing to go to the shops, you'll get dragged in off the street. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah. Yula Andrews: But people are just so friendly and welcoming. They all remember what it was like to be new and somebody will sit with you then and when you come into the room, I'm like a sorting hat in Harry Potter, you know, kind of have a chat to you and go, right, are we going to put you in the highs? We have highs, middles and lows with our voices. It's all relative. So try and keep everything just as accessible as possible to people and then just partner you up with somebody who is going to be friendly and well, that's anybody, frankly, in our choirs and kind and welcoming. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. ⁓ No. Yeah. Yula Andrews: and they'll share their notes and they'll show how they mark it up and kind of get you to know the ropes. And you'll just lose an hour and half of your life and go, well, where did that go? And go out beaming. It's almost guaranteed that you will just go out feeling so much better than you came in. And it's, like, I can't make your problems go away, but I can leave them at the door for an hour and a half. You can just switch off all that kind of mental chatter that's going on and just absorb yourself in something that Joanne Fiddy: Mm. and we want to be feeling alive and we've got to fit in and just be in the moment. I mean, how many times now that we're fully grown that we do sing and we do come together. And I know that you don't need to audition, do you? There isn't anything that you can just walk in and you can just sing from your soul. I think it's so important more than ever. I talk about press play actually in perimenopause and menopause and women pressing play on their life and moving forward and doing incredible things just like you're doing now. How would you say that pop chorus really kind of framed your own journey in midlife and also in menopause as Yula Andrews: It's really interesting. I was talking to a friend a couple of years ago. They were doing something on telly with her choir. She runs a similar choir. And it's really important when you do things, when you take the choirs out to perform, that you're really representative of the community. But we were both laughing going, well, in reality, though, the majority of our choirs are those kind of invisible women. We have a lot of women of a certain age in our choirs. And whether knowingly or not, they gravitate towards this kind of thing. Joanne Fiddy: Mm. Yula Andrews: You're you, you're Joe, you know, and you're not just, hey, or could you just, could you find my, where's my, you are Joe. And you can almost reinvent yourself. And I just realized that how much that aligned with my own journey and that as I was experiencing it, it took me years to work out I was in menopause. I just thought I was. going a little bit batty, a bit angry, a bit hot, a bit forgetful. And it took me a long time to put all those things together with vertigo, all kinds of symptoms. And then you put it all together and go, oh, do you know why I think this might be menopause? And that's when I got on the HRT and things, but realized that actually I'm seeing this day in, day out in choir. And so the two are so closely aligned. But that's why I wanted to take it a step further then, because with the CIC, I do all this wellbeing singing. So we work with people with Parkinson's or dementia, lung issues, people who are older, people who are lonely, and there are already studies Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yula Andrews: is showing that singing is beneficial. And I just thought, there's no research into how beneficial singing can be on people experiencing menopause symptoms. The other side is done. There's research into how menopause impacts on professional voice users, which as a professional singer, I find interesting. But... I want singing in a group to help just normal, regular, everyday women, real life women. And so I approached, I found, I looked online for somebody who was an expert in women's health and wanted women's voices to be heard in menopause research. And that's when I found Professor Camille Cronin at University of Essex. And I approached her and said, I've got this idea, what do you think? And she loved it and agreed that this was something that was worth looking at. a year to get from that initial idea to actually having a program written and we then started in January of this year our first cohort of singing for menopause to see whether it really does help with menopause symptoms. ⁓ Joanne Fiddy: see the choir now. Wow, because you are now doing a study, the first ever to support that singing can help women in menopause. It's incredible, it's incredible. Because if you think about it with perimenopause and menopause, what's going on, it's brain, it's all in our brain, such a brain. lead event, have estrogen receptors in our brain, cortisol is going up, estrogen is going down and estrogen takes the happy hormones, the serotonin, the dopamine and the GABA. And what do we need to do? We can bring that back naturally. And how can we do that? Doing things we love, which is singing. Yula Andrews: Yep. singing is proven to reduce your cortisol, increase your serotonin, it increases oxytocin, immunoglobin A, it supports all these systems. But the missing link, so I have to admit that singing for menopause, when I first came up with the idea, I thought we'd have a little chat about, I don't know, rage, emotion, ⁓ you know, not shouting at people in Tesco's, and then we do a lot of singing. But the reality is that actually Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yula Andrews: we needed education first and this is where it's different from something like singing for Parkinson's. So if you're a Parkinson's sufferer and you go to a singing group, you don't necessarily need to know why the singing is helping you or how it's helping you. You just go and sing and you feel better ⁓ for it. It has a positive impact. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yula Andrews: But these are women who want to be empowered. They need knowledge. You know, we don't want to be told how to feel or what to do. We need to understand why, because then we can take ownership and then we can influence it. So actually, each session required quite a lot of research into what's the most current thinking and information and sharing that knowledge with the participants and going, you know, this is what's happening. This is why you've got brain fog. This is what's happening in your brain. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yula Andrews: ⁓ and in your body with the reduction in estrogen, the reduced serotonin means that the messages are not getting from one part of your brain to another. There are ways you can increase that. One of those ways of increasing serotonin is self-compassion, which like we're always being told, be nice to yourself, take time, be nice to yourself. But no, no, it's not selfish. You must do it because it's proven to increase the serotonin, which will reduce the brain fog. And some of this stuff was such a revelation. Joanne Fiddy: Mm. Yula Andrews: But then if you know it, you can then influence it and do something about it. So we can't make menopause symptoms go away. We're not going to fix it. You're not broken. It's not something to be fixed. It's a transition. But we all identified the fact that this is the second transition. We've had puberty. And my kids are being taught about that at school. Who teaches you about this next transition, though? So the education part of it was really crucial. And then the singing, the breathing techniques, the things that come Joanne Fiddy: Hmm. Mm. Yula Andrews: from the singing, which really helped with anxiety, learning some breathing techniques and some sort of body scans and play listing as well. So that's really useful. I came up with this idea of hero lyrics, you know, if you I should trademark that. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. ⁓ A hundred percent trademark. Get off the pod. I want you to go and trademark it, please. Yula Andrews: Get a lawyer. Lawyer up. But the idea of hero lyrics, yeah? If you are currently, if you're having a hot flush and you've got a meeting, we can't make the hot flush go away. But if you know that you've got a Beyonce song or a Gloria Gaynor song and you go like, you know, what would Beyonce do now? What would Tina Turner say? And you have it on your phone. You have a little lyric that just reminds you, know, ⁓ Kelly Clarkson, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah. Yula Andrews: Okay, right, I'm going to own this and I'm going in and I'm doing it anyway. And it's just getting you from one state of mind to another quickly. Because that's the kind of women we are. We need to get there quicker. We want to get stuff done. And using play listing and lyrics can all really, really help that. Sorry, I get terribly excited. Go off on my... ⁓ Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah. I'm so, I'm just in awe. I'm just literally just there. As you're talking, like, just everything you're saying. how much ⁓ do we love music? How powerful that you're all of this is just so incredible. And I love the fact you talked about your children as well, because if we think about it, ⁓ Meminopause is puberty in reverse. And I feel we are feeling things right now. And those music that even that we heard as a teenager. I feel just really hits you now, and I know this and how it can impact the brain, but music is so powerful. I know it can, is it the nostalgia of music on the brain that can support you? You probably know more of this than I do. more also how you're helping with dementia and what you're Yeah. ⁓ Yula Andrews: Yeah, and understanding that although, because secretly a lot of us thought, oh gosh, is this beginning of dementia then? And that's why it was really useful partnering with a clinical partner. So having Professor Cronin there, she could say, it's not dementia. You're all feeling this. you know, studies have been done on the menopausal brain. Dementia is degenerative. But in menopause, we have the facility to create new neural pathways and ways of doing that. And we can Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Mm. Yula Andrews: we will get through the brain fog years. That's very reassuring to hear for one. But finding ways to support that and improve our chances of getting through the other side and coming out unscathed, we need to embrace that. And so the weeks we were looking at concentration, did songs with, like we did the Macarena and things with moves and things that were just playful and fun. We had fun in there. There were also a lot of tears. Joanne Fiddy: Yes, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yula Andrews: It's a really interesting thing I observed quite near the end of the programme. So we had 12 sessions all on different topics. And it was right near the end that we looked at self-confidence and also kind of menopausal rage, which is definitely a thing. And it's brilliant that menopause is being talked about more and recognized more in the press and things like riot women are fantastic. But my worry is that we're going to end up with a bit of a cliche that women are just angry. And actually, I found that it was other sessions that looked at emotions that hit home much. they seemed to touch a nerve more with the participants we had. So things about anxiety and fear and communicating with your family about what's going on. Those are the things that really, really struck a nerve with people. And it was just so empowering then to understand why it's happening, what you can do to help yourself and then finding songs. the participants we had, they were an amazing cohort. It 15 women. and a lot of them didn't sing before they came and a lot of them didn't know each other and the way they bonded so quickly and looked forward to this this weekly kind of get-together an opportunity to be themselves and to share and to ask stupid questions and have revelations there were tears and laughter but they very much influenced and directed what we did I wanted this to be something that instead of clinicians or authorities telling us how we should deal with our menopause that menopausal women have a voice in this and that they shape it and tell us what they need and and direct the way we're going so they worked out the layout of the room and we ended up in a circle and so then when we sang that circle came closer together and ⁓ my goodness, we were under a skylight and it was proper, like full on hippie stuff here. was completely, you know, we were like a little coven meeting, but it was beautiful. Just that sharing the connection. And we did the singing towards the end of the session. So you've got all the learning and a cup of tea, obviously. And then you kind of compound that learning with the songs and make the connections across the room and go, Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yula Andrews: have seen you, I have felt heard today, and I'm going to take this feeling out into the world for the rest of the week until I can come back next week for the next top-up. And the songs really helped with that, using other people's lyrics to kind of explain how you feel and articulate these big emotions, and sometimes just to have a laugh. It was so powerful. Joanne Fiddy: Oh, it sounds so powerful. just, it's so much bigger as well. It's just so big. feel, especially when you go through praying menopause and amenopause there, is that where you feel invisible? So to be seen by another person, another woman going through the same journey as you, to sing from your heart, to sing from your soul, and to come away with so much more. Do you feel that the women that come in, I mean, It's like, sometimes it can feel like you've lost your voice. There is an unraveling and maybe your voice is starting to come through. Have you found through the study and the work that you do that women are finding their voice and themselves through this process? Yula Andrews: Yeah, very much so. Self-advocacy has become such a thing and disappointment kind of thing every week to come singing. And last week you might have talked about an issue and your doctor didn't listen to you. Well, suddenly you're going back to the doctors with 14 other women mentally behind you going, no, you've got a point here. Go and do it. And then you need to come back to the group and say, actually, I did go and see my doctor and I have done this about it. And they have found their voice and their confidence. because firstly it's being normalized that you haven't lost your marbles and you're not the only one and you've got that strength of the support of this group of people behind you. So yes, people definitely found their voices and it's amazing at the end we had a sort of session to reflect on it all and people were using words like transformative. They've said this has been life-changing for them, just the tools it's given them to take forward And they all want to share. The women who took part, some were saying they felt really sorry for other women who didn't have this group and that they were just going to share as much as they could with as many people as they could. know, we're all like Marge Simpson's sisters, know, just standing there getting young women. All right, well, let me tell you about menopause. might be here. But we just want to share as much as we can and help other women. Joanne Fiddy: Hahaha! Yeah. Definitely. And there's a rise in sisterhood circles, isn't there? There's a rise in women coming together and there is something about Midlife, about women. We are coming together again and we are doing things together. And this just feels like such a supportive piece. And I have to touch on it because you are launching in October. Yula Andrews: There is. Joanne Fiddy: Going on well, if people are sitting here going, okay, I wouldn't mind to have a little bit a scene on holiday. What are you planning for October? Yula Andrews: ⁓ So one of my very, very dear friends and I, we've sung together for years. We used to do the ABBA tributes together and we both run big community choirs, have a very similar kind of approach to our work. And we both turned 50 last year and went, what's next? So we've launched a business together because people always say that we're so similar and we're like, no, we're not, we're unique. Yeah, we are unique. So we've launched, We Are Unique Singing Holidays. And the idea is that we're go off to this beautiful, retreat in Spain, in the Costa Blanca, it's an hour away from Alicante up in the hills, and host about 18 to 20 people there, just singing. We've got a private chef, beautiful. We've got the whole place to ourselves. It's just gorgeous. And there'll be mindfulness and yoga, walking with goats, because why not? Why not, exactly. And just... Joanne Fiddy: Why not? Yula Andrews: having this togetherness and this, this, it's men and women, one, this isn't just menopausal women, this is for anybody who just wants to come and experience the joy of singing, but somewhere beautiful where you can feel really pampered and take time to actually look after yourself as well. So we're very, very excited about that. Joanne Fiddy: Wonderful. And I'm going to put this all in the show notes, everybody. It's in the show notes. All the details will be in there, how they can book, how they can get started, everything will play. So jump on the show notes. You can get booking right now. What do feel that you've learned about yourself during this time? Yula Andrews: I have learned that the main person who gaslights me in my life is me. If anyone's going to sabotage me, it's me. And that actually I'm much stronger than I realized. And that the power of learning about this and helping other women has massively helped me with my own menopause and with taking Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yula Andrews: charge of my symptoms because I kind of feel like well if I'm going to tell other people I need to do it for myself too and just small changes that I've made and taking time for myself and things like I sing all day every day but taking some time to go and have some additional coaching to get some new warm-ups to look after my voice properly to prioritize myself a bit more has been it's tiny tiny changes But they're radical and it has just changed my energy so much and where I'm like 50 and going right I'm just getting started now. This is the beginning. I can't wait for what what comes next Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And actually there's women who are listening now and they are feeling a bit invisible. They've lost their voice and they're not sure. What advice would you give them listening now, whether they're driving the car, walking, I listen to podcasts, doing the laundry, wherever they are right now, what message do you have for them? Yula Andrews: that you deserve to look after yourself because you are worthwhile and you deserve to be seen for who you are, not the role that you play for all these other people. And maybe you do need to go and find who you are somewhere, but small changes. It doesn't have to be radical. You it just means a little bit of time. Sit there with a pad and a pen. Perhaps don't take your phone to bed. Have a pad instead and write down some notes. Go back to some ideas you had when you were younger. because they will have such a ripple effect on the rest of your life and the people in your sort of sphere that you owe it to yourself and to other people to do this, to look after yourself. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah, get started and start moving forward. That one thing as you say, isn't it? And do it for you. What are you pressing play on next? Yula Andrews: Well, I think next I need to find some other people who can do singing for menopause groups, because there's only one of me. And I think this will become a thing that I'd love to see rolled out. So I would like to get this turned into a formally recognized coaching certificate, if you like. But finding the right people to do that, because originally when I thought it was going to be lots of singing and just a little bit of talking, I thought, ⁓ be singing teachers and well-being singing teachers. But actually, holding space for a room of 15 women, needs people who are, I don't know, it's like running question time, but with people who are likely to cry or laugh. So I think it's probably coaches, menopause coaches, who can sing and have an interest and an empathy for music as well. Because there aren't many singing teachers who are going to be talking about vaginal atrophy one minute and then singing Thorn in my side. Joanne Fiddy: Yep. Yeah. Totally. Yula Andrews: finding somebody who can do all of that, pass the tissues and make some biscuits, you know, it's finding the right people. So for me, it's now growing the singing for menopause side of things, hopefully getting the data back to corroborate what we already pretty much believe that it really is good for people. And then expanding, we are unique, the singing holiday side of things, whilst keeping the choir plate spinning and getting my kids through high school. That's all. Joanne Fiddy: That's it, just those small things. I can't thank you enough. I feel like I just stared at you the whole time in just admiration. This is the best, this is the best. You were just put on this planet to do good things. There's some people that you really, you make the world a better place. And I mean that from my heart. just, the work that you do and just hearing you talk, it really is, you're just, you are a light. You are such a leading light in this world. And... Yula Andrews: Yeah. I feel like I just talked the whole time. ⁓ Joanne Fiddy: Thank you so much for coming on. I feel I'm gonna get you back on once the results come in. We can talk about this even more because I feel that there's gotta be a part two to this. I just wanna say a massive thank you for coming on the Pressing Play podcast. Yula Andrews: Thank you so much for having me, Jo. It's been an absolute joy.