Latest / The Soap Box Podcast / Why the sales page template keeps asking you to twist the knife

Transcript

Why the sales page template keeps asking you to twist the knife · The Soap Box Podcast

• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: P A S A I D A P P P W XYZ Grab her attention remind her of her problem, twist the knife, and introduce your solution at her weakest point.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: How many sales page templates have you read that said something like that?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And how many times have you ignored that uneasy feeling in the pit of your stomach as you filled in sections that were designed to emotionally and psychologically manipulate your potential client into giving you their money?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode of the Soapbox, it's just me.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm talking about where those formulas come from, why they make you feel like that, and what selling looks like when you don't have to make anyone feel worse before you can help them feel better.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: So um I've been doing a lot of reading recently because I'm getting ready to write my own book.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, a couple of weeks ago, I was reading a book by someone that I do actually really respect.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: She's got an awful lot of really great ideas.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she is a um an icon in her field.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: But at one point, she started talking about, and I quote, weapons of mass conversion.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, why?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that the language that we're using at a time in our world and our society where everybody's nervous system is completely shot to pieces?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: We are wiped out.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Our nerve endings are alive all over the place.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Why would you come into a situation like that in a context like that and start doing things like twisting the knife or poking at pain points or engineering the moment of highest tension with your weapons of mass conversion?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: I did finish the book because I'm not a monster and um and I can't not finish books, but I wrote some fairly cross things in the margins.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you start a business to make the world a better place or to make someone's life better, you're doing it to help.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing it because you care about people.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: You are not necessarily doing it because, in a traditional business sense, you saw a gap in the market that you could exploit and make money from.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then you arrive in the world of marketing and you realize that you actually do have to market your business if you want to keep the lights on and keep people coming in, especially in the kind of work where you help people get better and then they go away, which is lovely, but then you need more people, which reminds me of that bit in Friends where Phoebe teaches a massage yourself at home workshop, and then they all do, and she has no clients.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: All of the advice you're handed is that traditional marketing advice, that these are the tools you use to make people do stuff.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is the language you used to manipulate people.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is how you push people from one thing to the next.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I tend to see happen is that people feel like they have to make a choice.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Either they trade in a bit of their soul for the ability to help more people and use those methods because they think it's the only way, you know, the ends justify the means vibe.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Or they decide they can't mesh those things with their values.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so they don't shout about what they do.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: They don't market their business, they don't sell, which means that they help fewer people and they don't have the money and the resources they need to live a decent life themselves, and to pour that money into funding causes that they care about.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: I came into this business and I've talked about this before, with that same binary idea that you could do good or you could make money.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I've worked with so many brands who started doing what they do, whether that's being a life coach, a chiropractor, a tarot guide, um, a breast pump manufacturer, or anything else, because they wanted to help people.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: So when you come along and write their sales page and tell them they have to pick a pain point and poke at it to make it worse so that people will want to buy, they don't want to do that.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: They think that their only options are to do it and feel like they're betraying their values or not do it and not sell the thing they need to sell and not help as many people as they could help.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have a little bit of insight of that choice from the inside, because for a long time I felt like I was betraying all of my values.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: For a little while, I tried to kind of counteract that by not charging enough for the work that I was doing.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because it wasn't about the money, was it?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: That was what I was telling myself.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right up until the point where it was actually very much about the money.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because bills don't care about your values, and neither does the broken tumble driver.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I had to put that part of me away if I was going to be a business owner.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: But in reality, I don't think I have ever felt more truly in my purpose and in my genius as I did when I realized I could have both.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what this episode is about.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: How you can have both as well.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I spent a long time learning conversion copywriting, and it is an incredibly useful tool.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have books on my shelf from Claude Hopkins and a whole bunch of other people from the 20s and 30s and 40s and 50s and 90s and 2000s.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of what we're taught is still built on those early writers.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: The mediums have changed, but a lot of the thinking hasn't.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: So your talk frameworks like PAS, you pick a pain point, the problem, something that's really causing someone pain, and then you have to agitate it.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: You poke at it at it to make them realize that it's so, so bad that they immediately need your solution.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: You are the only one who can solve their problem, but in order to get there, you have to make them feel worse.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, that has always pissed me off.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I suspect that you might have had the same feeling.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: The whole point of you and what you do is to make someone feel better.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Why would you want to make them feel worse first?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's the whole other toolkit.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Scarcity, like saying you've got five seats when it's a digital product and you could sell it to loads more people.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Urgency, like the quotes live webinar that's happening in 11 minutes, which is actually a recording, though it's really annoying me.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Value stacking, where this bonus isn't worth$150 million, even though you literally never sold it for that, and you made the number up out of your head.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Countdown timers, disappearing bonuses, and the big promises.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: We hold up these huge results because one previous client got that thing.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: What we don't say is that there were specific contexts and specific circumstances that had to be in place for that client to get that thing.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And only part of this result had anything to do with us.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: We might have been brilliant.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: But unless we can replicate it with a statistically significant number of people in different circumstances, it isn't proof.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, people buy, they don't get the result, and they're told it's because they didn't commit enough, or work hard enough, or believe in themselves enough, or pay for the premium tier.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Even the words we use give it away.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about funnels.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about leads, we talk about pushing people along a pipeline.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds pleasant.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: All of it treats the people we're trying to talk to as inanimate objects with no agency, who we are moving from one place to another, whether they like it or not.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: You pull people in at the top, you catch the ones you can, and everyone else falls out of the funnel.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then they're gone.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: They're not worth going back to because they didn't buy in that moment on your timetable.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: So where does all that come from?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: If you listen to my last solo episode, you'll know I have opinions about the hero's journey.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's a hero, something terrible happens, he goes on a quest, meets a guide, fights a dragon or dragon-shaped thing, wins, and walks off into the sunset, triumphant but alone.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because, in that story, connections and relationships and family and community are all the things that hold him back.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Asking for help is a weakness and not a strength.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when you put that story on a sales page, your reader is the hero the hero.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: She has a wound, you are the guide with the sword, and she won't pick up the sword until she can feel the dragon breathing on her neck.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you make the dragon breathe.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: That is PAS, problem agitate solution.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: That is the twist of the knife.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's the hero's journey logic told to someone who's trying to decide whether to buy your thing.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: But there is another story structure, and it's the one that I have now built everything in my business on.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's called the heroine's journey.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: There is still a protagonist, a heroine, and her world still breaks apart.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Something goes wrong and she has to go and try and fix it.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: She might start off alone and it's risky, but instead of staying alone for the whole thing, she gathers people around her.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: She builds community along the way, finding new allies.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: She delegates to the people in that community according to their skills, because they've all got different strengths.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And she often has to make compromises to solve the problem.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the win isn't particularly clean, and sometimes things don't get tied off particularly neatly.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then at the end, she doesn't wander off with her sword and her prize.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: She comes back to the community that she's built, to her people.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: The strength in that story structure, the thing that makes her successful, is the delegating and the community and the relationship she builds along the way.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas in the hero's journey, the strength is being alone.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Quick note before we carry on.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Heroes and heroines are not gendered.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: A man can be a heroine and a woman can be a hero.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Ted Lasso, for example, very much a heroine.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: So what does that change about how we sell?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, quite a lot, actually.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: We've been trained to think we're only impressive if we did it all ourselves.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so have the people that we're selling to.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Which means when your reader says, I need to talk to my partner about this, or I want to ask my friend who did it or did this thing earlier, the old playbook calls that an objection that we should be trying to overcome.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: In the heroine's journey structure, that is a gathering of her people, an acknowledgement that she doesn't exist in a vacuum.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's a strength.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's probably how she makes every good decision she's ever made.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because the bad ones are made at 3 a.m.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: whilst scrolling your phone.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And if compromise beats conquest, then a sale isn't something that you win.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's something you work at together.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the answer is yes.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's not yet.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's no.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: No action we take happens in a vacuum.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a business and you're trying to sell something to someone, that person is not making their purchasing decision based only on the information you've given them and the story that you've told them.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: They've got a family, they have financial responsibilities, they have listened to the news and got three news alerts that really stressed them out in the last five minutes.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I am speaking from experience.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: They have to ask other people to help with bits of their lives.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I know this one in my bones.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: When Mart died, I was 32 with a two and a half year old.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it taught me that you have absolutely no idea what is going on in people's lives.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: None.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you had passed me in the street then, wandering along Hungerford High Street with my happy chatty toddler, you would have had no idea what was happening in my life.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: But it affected every decision that I made, including the ones that involved spending money.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: So when you market to people, when you share your offers with them, you have to do it with so much empathy and respect because you have no idea what is going on underneath the surface.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you cannot take every single person's individual circumstances into account.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: But having an awareness of and a responsibility for how what you put out there is going to be received is incredibly important.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing that taught me this was 15 years of youth work.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you meet an anxious, frantic, angry, or tantruming child, 14, with the same vibe they're giving off, all you do is escalate the situation.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: They match you and get even more hyped.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: You match them and the flame grows until it explodes.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And chairs fly across the room at your head, usually.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: The more helpful response in that situation is to meet their agitation with your own calm so that that child or teen can co-regulate.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: You lend them your calm to help them calm down.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you are caught up on all of the Ted Lasso episodes and the new season four, then there is a moment in that season where Ted models this so perfectly that it made me tear up a little bit.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: So why in our marketing do we decide we have to meet a pain, a stress, or an anxiety by trying to amp it up, by poking and agitating the pain point, by fanning the flame.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: What your reader needs from you when she is already frazzled is someone calm enough to sit with and to think straight next to.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: So if selling isn't twisting the knife, then what is it exactly?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: I would argue that marketing and selling is giving people the information they need to make the decision that's right for them.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's simple.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you can frame a whole sales page around that.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Tell her who this is for.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Tell her what problems it can help her solve in a way that makes her feel understood and seen and gives her hope.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Show her the results you've helped other people like her get so she has proof and reassurance that what she wants is possible.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: All of that is really important.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because if people don't have that information, how can they make a decision that's going to help them?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes the decision is no.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Giving her the information is still selling to her, it's still helping her decide.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And a no today might not be a no forever.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: If she like leaves your page thinking that's not for me right now, but I know where it is when it is for me, then that's a relationship.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not something that fits into a funnel.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Also, um, I do want to point out that the tools, some of them anyway, aren't the problem in themselves.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Urgency, for example, if you're running an event and it's on a certain day and people need to decide by a certain time, it is completely reasonable to tell them when it's happening and when the deadline is.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: That is just information.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then scarcity.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: If there are 180 seats on a flight, you cannot make more seats on the flight.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: If you have four one-to-one coaching spaces, you have four one-to-one coaching spaces.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: But the important thing is how those tools make the person you're talking to feel.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Are you respecting her agency or are you trying to manipulate her into doing something that isn't for the best for her?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the classic techniques are actually really useful ways of helping someone work out whether a thing is for them.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: But the trouble is, um, is that in most trainings and templates, they arrive as this big job lot with the assumption that um everything is good.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the manipulative ones are bundled in, and nobody ever taught you how to tell them apart.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so you think you have to keep them all or throw them all out.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is where the regenerative story framework that I developed comes in.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: I built it on the heroine's journey, and one of the things it does is help you work out where your reader is in her own story so you know how to talk to her in a way that helps her.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: There are five phases, um, and they're not steps, they're kind of more like soil conditions.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Phase one is uprooting.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's when someone has tried really hard to make the old way work.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: The 5 a.m.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: alarms, the just be more disciplined advice, the hustle podcasts.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: But she's decided that she can't stay.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: It is not working.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is not the time to make her feel worse, um, to make her feel like she's failed, or to poke at pain point so she'll buy your thing.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is when you sit with her.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: When you co-regulate, and when you tell her she's not alone.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Phase two is composting, which feels very on brand for this one of you.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: It is the messy in-between.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: The old way has stopped working, but she's not hugely comfortable in the f in the new one yet.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she often flips between I'm ready for something different and maybe I should just go back.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Composting is basically rotting slowly in the dark until everything that she's thrown out becomes the what she grows out of in the garden.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And nobody needs a countdown timer when they are doing that.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Phase three is germinating.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: It is the slow, uncomfortable, unlearning what she believes about money or ambition, about who gets to take up space, um, and working out what's going to grow next.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: None of this shows up in an income claimed screenshot.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: It happens under the ground, just like it does in gardening.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it often looks like nothing is happening.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Phase four is sprouting.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: She is trying new ways of working, and most of them are a little bit wobbly.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: She might say her price out loud for the first time and wince.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: For example, now, a sprout, famously, is not a tree, and it doesn't do well with someone standing over it asking when it's going to start generating revenue.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: It needs warmth, space, permission to get it wrong, someone who treats false starts as information, and maybe a little fence protecting it from annoying deer.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Phase five is rooting.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: She is steadier now, mostly because she's got people around her.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: The question that she asks herself will often change from how much have I achieved to how well are we all supported.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: So which phase are your people in when they land on your sales page?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because a a page that's trying to rush someone who is composting is going to feel exactly as icky to read as it did to write.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's also not going to work.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: The idea behind most of the sales page templates that you've used is that she won't buy until the problem hurts enough.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you find the pain point and press on it, and then keep marching her towards the hard cell, occasionally jabbing her with a cattle prod to remind her that she has a pain that needs fixing.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: But she already knows what the problem feels like.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: She is the one living with it.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: When she's sitting on the fence, it's usually for a much more ordinary reason.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: There are things she needs to know and she can't find them, or she's been burned before.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: That needs less cattle prodding and more care and co-regulation.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: So give her those.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: A sales page is somewhere online your reader can go and get what she needs to decide in a way that is kind to her nervous system.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: She'll have a list of questions in her head, things like, is this for someone like me?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do I want to work with this person?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Will I get what I need out of it?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do I have time for this right now?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Have people like me found it helpful?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: What happens if life gets in the way?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Conversion copywriting calls these objections and teaches you how to handle them, which makes her sound like a problem to get past.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: I do not like that.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: These are questions.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Valid questions, and answering them is a helpful clarification.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: A page that answers them well helps her make the decision that's right for her, including when it's known.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, where does that leave us?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: If we are business owners with a heart for our people and bills to pay, well, selling itself is not a problem.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Selling is just giving people the information they need to make a purchasing decision.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: What we need is a different framework.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: One that isn't based on psychological manipulation, guilt tripping, and driving people out into the middle of a desert before we offer them a glass of water.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: A framework that values the agency and emotional well-being of every human and thinks about your own anxiety levels.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: A framework that helps you clearly explain the value of what you do, who you do it for, and why you're a safe pair of hands.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that, ta-da! Is what I've made.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's called the regenerative sales page, and it's open from today.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's a self-study guide and a workbook built on the regenerative story framework.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it is the formula I use to write sales pages for clients, all laid out in an easy-to-understand way.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: It walks you through the different way that I look at sales pages, why the usual formulas feel so icky to you, which bits of them are perfectly fine to keep, and the eight movements I make sure every page has.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: There are prompts to answer and examples from real sales pages.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end, you finish with a draft sales page that respects your ethics and your audience's agency and sells the wonderful things that you offer.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's only 67 pounds.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't for everyone.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't yet describe what you do, then you need to start with the free regenerative story map instead.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if the usual formulas work brilliantly for you and you're happy with them, then this will mostly annoy you, so carry on as you are.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to promise to you that you will make your 67 pounds back a hundred times over.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know your offer, your list, or what your next few months are like.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: So any number that I gave you would be one I invented to get you over the line, which, given the last 20 minutes of me talking, would be a little bit rich.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: You will also probably still feel a little bit of anxiety when you hit publish.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Most of us will go to our graves feeding it.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and honestly, I slightly worry about anyone who doesn't.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: But what will be different is that you'll know you're not treading on anyone because the page answers her questions and leaves the decision with her.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: The link to the regenerative sales page and the regenerative story map are in the show notes.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Get it and get proper pennies in the bank because you deserve to be paid for the brilliant work you do without poking at anyone's pain points.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't decided that's allowed, I'll still be here, as will the regenerative sales page, and all the other offers I have that help you communicate more effectively with your audience, without checking your soul at the door.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you can find them all on my website.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to me get on my own particular soapbox.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: This week, I will be back in a couple of weeks with our next guest.