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Dangerous Relationships, Introduction to the series. · Inside The Consulting Room - Understanding the Child Behind the Behaviour

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome back.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is Kim Lee, child and adolescent psychotherapist.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: And this is an introductory episode to start the series that I'm calling dangerous relationships.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fairly provocative title.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's fair to say that it is something which is in its own way alarming.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, dangerous is a word that we use to describe someone or something or an action that has the potential to cause harm, injury or loss.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: And there is a spectrum, of course, in the way this word is used.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: We think of it in the context of something that's likely to cause physical injury, exposure to risk, or detrimental to well-being.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And all of those things, of course, are relevant in the context of how we experience and how we communicate about something which which feels hazardous.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, before we begin, I want to explain exactly what I mean by the phrase dangerous relationships.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not talking about relationships that simply experience conflict.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Every relationship has disagreements from time to time.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Every couple argues from time to time, and every family experiences periods of stress, disappointment, and misunderstanding.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not talking about relationships that are simply unhappy.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, whilst painful, unhappiness alone doesn't necessarily constitute a relationship that's dangerous.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really referring to something different altogether.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now those of you who are regular listeners will know that I've talked about abusive relationships, coercive control, I've talked about avoidant personalities and manipulation, deception, and I suppose all of these things are in their own way parts of what we might call a dangerous relationship, but actually that isn't the emphasis.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is another level.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm referring to something that's altogether different.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because a dangerous relationship is one in which one person's pattern of behavior consistently diminishes another person's emotional well-being, psychological freedom, sense of identity, or capacity to make independent choices, and of course, where there is a risk of some kind of physical harm or even threats of physical harm.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: The important word in all of that is about a person's pattern.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: The word pattern is what's important, not an isolated event, not a bad day or a single argument, but a pattern.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Patterns are what clinicians look for because patterns tell us far more than isolated incidents ever can.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And this is really important because we tend to rationalize uh individual episodes.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: We tend to normalize them if they become frequent.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not always, but actually as clinicians and like many other people, when we take a step back and we join the episodes together, we see a pattern.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the question here is what does it tell us?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I've learned is that people rarely recognize a dangerous relationship whilst they're in it.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't because they're blind or unintelligent or weak.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it isn't, it isn't because that somehow they wanted the relationship to become harmful, quite the opposite.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Very often dangerous relationships usually begin in exactly the same way as healthy ones, with hope, affection, excitement, trust.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: But the danger develops gradually, almost imperceptibly, and little by little the relationship begins to reorganize itself around one person's needs, fears, expectations, or behaviors until the other person finds themselves becoming increasingly anxious, increasingly uncertain, and increasingly disconnected from who they once were.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now I spoke a lot about this in the series on emotional contamination and the companion series of emotional decontamination.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: When people describe themselves as really not knowing who they are, feeling like that they aren't the person they thought they were, what's happened is that they have had to give away parts of themselves, or suppress parts of themselves, is probably a better way of describing it.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's because it the relational space is being dominated or consumed by one of the parties, leaving very little for the other one.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose that this is this is one of the reasons why I want to produce this series, because there are countless books, podcasts, and videos, and they encourage us, some of them encourage us to label people.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this person's a narcissist or a psychopath, this one has a personality disorder.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, whilst those conditions certainly exist, real clinical diagnosis is much more complicated than attaching labels to people who are difficult.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: And although I will be referring to recognized mental health conditions and personality disorders because they're relevant to understand, this is not intended to inform people so that they can then make diagnostic statements about another person.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because a diagnosis can only be made following a comprehensive clinical assessment by an appropriate qualified clinician.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: So this series isn't about encouraging anyone to diagnose anybody else.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: In my work, I come into contact with people who some people who demonstrate traits that make me think clinically.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say that I mean that I may very well see patterns or interpret how the person views themselves and their worlds and their relationships in ways that alert me to the possibility of there being some condition which is is present in some way.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I can only say, okay, this person demonstrates the traits of narcissistic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, or some you know something else.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the important thing here is assessment is key, and that is a in a clinical task.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to labor the point, but I do think I need to make very clear, almost as a disclaimer, that this podcast and those that follow will not qualify you to do that work.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, I think what we're we're less interested in what somebody might be called, but what it is like to be in a relationship with that person, what it feels like.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And this distinction really does matter because actually someone may never receive a diagnosis yet still create a relationship that is emotionally dangerous.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And equally, someone may have a recognized diagnosis and sometimes through insight treatment and support, they're still capable of building loving, respectful, and stable relationships.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: So diagnosis alone doesn't determine risk, behavior does.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: So what sorts of behaviors should concern us?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, across the years, many years of research and clinical observation, several themes appear again and again.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Relationships become dangerous when control becomes or control begins replacing mutual influence, when one person's opinions and actions gradually become more important than the others, when guilt replaces honest conversation, and when fear replaces safety, when affection becomes conditional, when apologies become repetitive, but the behavior never changes.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And when responsibility becomes increasingly one-sided, and when somebody begins saying things like, I'm always walking on eggshells, or I don't know who I am anymore, or perhaps it's all my fault, or maybe I'm imagining things, or I'm frightened to upset them.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, those aren't simply passing thoughts, they're markers that something much deeper is happening.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the most reliable indicators of a dangerous relationship is that it slowly changes how we think about ourselves.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Confidence begins to disappear, decision making becomes harder, we stop trusting our own judgment, we apologize more frequently, we might find ourselves withdrawing from friends and feeling more isolated.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And eventually we begin to see ourselves through the eyes of the other person.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, in earlier podcasts, I described this process as emotional contamination, it's the gradual absorption of another person's distorted view of us until it begins to feel like our own.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Dangerous relationships don't simply hurt us, they reorganize the way we experience ourselves.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And whenever children are involved, this becomes even more significant.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Children don't simply witness adult relationships, they grow up inside them.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And their developing brains are constantly asking questions.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: What is love?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Who has power?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is it safe to disagree?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Whose feelings matter?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Am I responsible for making adults happy?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Can people be trusted?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: These questions aren't necessarily asked or answered with words, they're answered by experience.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: A child living within a dangerous relationship is not simply observing behavior.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: They're building the blueprint from which future relationships may eventually grow.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is why recognizing dangerous relationship patterns is not simply about protecting adults.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's also about safeguarding children.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because not all harm, as we know, leaves bruises.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Some harm shapes identity, some harm shapes attachment, and some harm shapes the nervous system.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Some harm quietly influences the relationships that a child may choose and remain in many years later.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why this subject is so profoundly important.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: What happens in the present will play out in the future.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's really important because people very often, particularly if you're trying to manage being in a situation like this, but many people don't see what you're doing now will play out in the future.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, I mean, I think if you ask yourself the question, what kind of emotional environment did you grow up in?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And what's the residue of that?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: What are the things that you remember that have influenced the decisions, the actions, your view of yourself here in the present?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Over the next four episodes, we'll explore several relationship patterns, those that I've commonly encountered in clinical practice.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: We'll look at relationships organized around addiction, where life gradually becomes centered upon rescue, secrecy, and survival.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: We'll examine relationships characterized by narcissistic patterns, where empathy often gives way to control, entitlement, and emotional exhaustion.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: We'll explore relationships affected by borderline dynamics, considering how overwhelming fears of abandonment and emotional instability can profoundly affect everyone involved, whilst recognizing that many people with borderline personality disorder engage successfully in treatment and building healthy relationships, but not all.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: We'll consider relationships involving antisocial or sociopathic traits where deception, exploitation, and the absence of remorse may create profound psychological and practical harm.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, we'll bring all of these ideas together by considering recovery, because recognizing a dangerous relationship is only the beginning.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: The greater challenge is recovering the person we were before the relationship gradually taught us to become somebody else.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: If there is one thought I'd like you to take away from this episode, it's this.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: A relationship becomes dangerous when it repeatedly requires you to become less of yourself in order to preserve the relationship.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Healthy relationships don't ask us to disappear, they help us to become more fully ourselves.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And in the next episode, we'll begin by examining one of the most common and often least understood dangerous relationship patterns of all.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that is relationships organized around addiction and how an addiction can gradually become the central organizing principle of an entire family system.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.