Latest / Selling on Giants: The eCommerce Marketplace Podcast / Retail Lessons from a Brand That’s Done It Right: Neo Naturelle

Transcript

Retail Lessons from a Brand That’s Done It Right: Neo Naturelle · Selling on Giants: The eCommerce Marketplace Podcast

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Selling on Giants, where we unpack how brands grow across digital marketplaces and retail.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode of Going Retail, I'm joined by Marina Mushlovina and Milla Cook, the founders behind Neo Naturel.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Neo Natural is a premium skincare brand focused on the often overlooked but highly valuable customer segment, women navigating hormonal changes, including perimenopause and menopause.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Built from a combination of scientific expertise and personal experience, the brand has spent the last six years developing products that prioritize both effectiveness and clean formulations.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like many brands that launched during COVID, Neo Naturel started digitally, but quickly realized that retail is a completely different game.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: In this conversation, we break down what it takes to enter retail, the realities of working with buyers, and the hard lessons that can make or break a brand once it gets on the shelves.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Let's dive in.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Marina Nilla, welcome to Selling on Giants Podcast.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for taking the time.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're looking forward to hearing your tips and advice for some of our digital brands considering going retail.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: But before we jump in, I'd love to hear your story about Neo Naturel, how you started it, and who you guys are serving.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, uh, we actually launched our company right before COVID happened, lucky us.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: And uh as uh many brands who launched their companies at that time, you are going through unprecedented times and you're trying to figure it out how to propel your company forward without having an advantage of participating in markets or trade shows or go to retailers directly.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's why uh the first three years um during the uh COVID years, we were uh specifically working on our um online business and on building reputation and uh building um kind of credits uh for our own company.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: And only after the COVID, you know, the lockdown had been finished, uh, we refocused on retail strategy.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, it's a completely different game.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: And uh when you do just online sales, it is one strategy.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: When you go retail, it's completely different uh animal, I would say.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, absolutely, you know, you need to understand how how it actually works and what retailers are looking for.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um again, our company Neonaturel, as a company, we target specifically um a demographic of uh women who are going through perimenopause and menopause.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: This is our specialty, this is what we actually live in and uh experiencing ourselves, and that's why we want to help our customers to have a beautiful glowing skin without um harsh chemicals, ingredients, hormone disruptors.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: So we offer in um very good, natural, uh very effective uh skincare portfolio for women at that particular stage of their life uh to help them to navigate hormonal changes.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: That is pretty awesome.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like a really uh what do they say, the riches are in the niches?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very niche demographic.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: How did you even fall into that to know about the chemistry and and everything?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh, how did you identify that niche and what made you develop these products to serve that community?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: I will just start answering the question, and after that, I will let my daughter to continue.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, I do have a master's degree in chemistry and master's degree in um food science, and I do have an ability to formulate.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, my education gives me that skill.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: However, the idea comes from my daughter, and I want her to speak to it directly.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: True story.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we start so we started when I got pregnant with my first child, and I was already in my 30s.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really want to compromise on the quality of my skincare, but at the same time, I didn't want to use anything that could potentially be harmful.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, my friends were asking what is this product that I'm using, and I said to them, you know, this is just our own stuff, and we were just getting such positive feedback from our from our immediate like friends and family trying the product that I said, you know what, maybe we should really very seriously approach this as a business.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we incorporated, and then the lockdown started, the pandemic started.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the first couple of years we were working out as Neela said, we were working out all you know, any little issues, finish finalizing our formulas, um, you know, working on our website.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then once we started, once the pandemic lifted, and we were actually able to go and talk to customers, do the markets, do the bootstrapping, you know, be out there speaking to women, we realized that this, you know, hormone neutral products that are beneficial for women that are pregnant are also beneficial for women, for any woman that's going through hormonal changes.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the 40 plus demographic.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Also, teenagers, but they don't really need skincare as much because they have skin.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So as we it we we kind of zeroed in on our niche from from directly interacting with our customers and realizing that this is this is our niche, this is who needs the product the most, who benefits from the product the most, and who we're really formulating for.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: And also, you know, I from my personal experience, I have to say that, you know, for me, aging is not the problem.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Being ignored and being invisible by society, this is the problem.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of women who go in through uh menopause in their 50s or 60s, they become invisible because all marketing agencies, all skincare brands, um, the whole society kind of discards and disregards women in this particular age.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and I think it is a societal perception that we need to change.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, we are at this age, we are a brand very often, very often money winners and bread winners in our company.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: We are at the peak of our career, we are financially independent.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: At the same time, you know, all the skincare brands and marketing is focused on 30 years old.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: 30-year-old skin doesn't need as much help as skin of women in her 50s and 60s or women after 40s.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: How come this is underserved demographics, right?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why, as you can see here, we're very passionate about it, right?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's our passion, it's our life.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're changing, we're also changing the narrative of uh the of this, you know, societal perception of anti-aging.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: There is nothing wrong with getting old, there is nothing wrong with going through your life, it's a privilege, actually, to get old.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and for some reason, our societies keep telling them, oh, it's you know, you're ugly when you're old, or yeah, you need to fight the site of aging.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, I don't need to.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need to be anti-aging.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: I want to go with my age through my life, and I am here as a brand founder and a formulator to help my customers to be at their best at the age at the stage of their life they're going to and have a healthy and beautiful skin, but not fight the aging.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing looks like stranger when it's when you when you're older, but you try to look uh younger.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I look at like uh Martha Stewart, Gail King, these are some uh older women that they uh they take care of themselves, and hopefully they're changing that perception.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And what I like that was really interesting too, it's it's tied around hormonal changes.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting perimetopause, but also that that post-pregnancy, like the uh I'm married, I have kids.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I I watch my wife, at least as an adult, as she's had her kids, and there's the woman body goes through a lot more changes than the male body, so uh it's not a surprise that there needs to be solutions like your guys that help skin care.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: It also helps you feel better.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: We all want to look good.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it matters what gender you are.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so but I do think that the like at 60 or 70, I probably shouldn't look like up 30.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Something's wrong.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna look very plastic.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: People am I organic or uh uh bionic, I guess will be the future questions as we we go down.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's nice you guys have a natural uh Remedy, and you're so passionate about it.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Before I jump into the retail questions, you guys have been in business for six years and female business.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So uh my wife and I were actually talking about this over lunch the other day, and we were doing some research.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's like 50 or 70 percent of businesses don't make it past the first year, 40 of businesses don't make it past year five, and it's like 20 don't make it past year 10 or something like that.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you guys are a very small subset, and this isn't even segmented by female ownered versus male ownered or whatever else.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: So being in business six years, a family business and doing it together.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: What are you guys most proud of?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or what's your most uh proudest accomplishment now that you guys are are six years in?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: I I will start on starting and I will let my daughter to continue.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: The first thing I'm super proud of that me and my daughter actually improved our relationship during this uh endeavor.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: And uh trust me, when you run a family business, it takes patience and skill.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: And uh your relationship, family relationship has to be very, very strong to survive it.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, yeah, it will not.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: And this is actually what I'm very proud of.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's nice, Nella.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: How about you, Marina?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I mean, making it this far.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, having if you know, the other day we were um filling some orders and we were talking about the orders we were filling, and we were just talking about like let's just take a second and appreciate how far we have come from you know, literally doing the tin can approach.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, please, please take our brand, please, like somebody, you know, acknowledge us, to now actually having people coming to us and going, oh, yeah, we want your stuff.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: You guys stuff is great, like we want we want your stuff.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: So uh very, very um encouraging, very encouraging.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, knowing that there's actually demand that comes to us now because it it really gives you the proof of concept, it gives you this you really for a very long time you have this imposter complex as you're navigating, right?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Very oversaturated industry, very oversaturated, you know, market, and not to say, like, you know, just because market is saturated, you can't you can't be there.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Every market is saturating, unless you're disrupting an industry and you are innovating something scientifically, every single market is saturated.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: You put you just have to have a really good product, good brand story, and you have to be able to persevere.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: So the fact that we were able to put all of that together um at this point, kind of uh yeah, very, very proud of you know, looking back at what was done.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is the key for us to brag a little bit about our brand.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I can say that so far we have won multiple international awards.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and uh we have uh been named as a best skincare made in Vancouver by Vancouver magazine, and uh we were finalists uh of HFA Launchpad um in 2022 with one of our products.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like we keep accumulating credentials, we keep accumulating all these awards and all these recognitions uh from the industry experts.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we could um this year we have won Canadian Choice Award as a brand, and this is actually one of the biggest awards for us personally, because the way the company chosen is based on the customer testimonials, not based on a jury, you know, not based on industry specialists, based on the customers who voted for your company.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: For me, this is the biggest award we won so far.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations, guys.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty amazing.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what keeps you off like it keeps you going, like receiving these um, you know, these awards, these recognitions, um, it validates you because, of course, as a business owner, you're constantly doubting yourself.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, am I doing the right thing?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Am I am I going in the right direction?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is this the correct decision?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: So having these um you know awards you know come our way really, really helps motivate you on those days when you're really doubting yourself.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I hope everybody listening in the audience can hear this.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's totally normal to doubt yourself as an entrepreneur.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: You don't always know the right direction.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And Marina Nilla could probably back me up.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you make mistakes.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I probably have more you will make mistakes.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: I yeah, I have to everyone know that it is absolutely normal that you make mistakes.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: It is absolutely normal that you have those days when you want to quit.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: It is absolutely normal when you doubt yourself.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: This is part of the package, and especially the first two, three years, there will be 70% of the days when you will tell yourself or asking yourself, why the heck am I doing that?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: And only 30% of the day when you start feeling like, yeah, I am achieving something.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: It is normal.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and as Marina said, you will have doubts, you will have the imposter complex, you will start thinking I'm doing something wrong because everyone around me is succeeding except me.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like what am I doing wrong?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's normal, and yeah, be prepared, you will make mistakes, and some of them will be costly mistakes.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Again, learn from it, move forward.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Amen to that.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: The highs are highs, the lows are lows, but it sounds like the journey is worth it.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think Churchill said, and I I cannot um I cannot say it exactly exact words, but the uh the idea is what he said is the success is the ability not to lose optimism uh when you go from defeat to defeat, right?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, yes, there will be defeats, and don't lose your optimism and keep going forward, and this is how you achieve your success.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'll hit you with another quote.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this one is by Bill Gates.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, success is a lousy teacher, it seduces smart men into thinking they cannot lose.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_04: Ooh, that's a good one.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've never heard that one.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: We keep these little things with us, you know, constantly.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is we carry these quotes and these things with us to really literally carry us through the days when it's not going the way we want it to be going.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, guys, I appreciate you sharing that.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Let's jump into retail.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: So this was super helpful, and I love the the background, and this is really helpful for our audience so they know we all start out this way at one at one time or another.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: But now that you guys are kind of in your growth stage, when did retail first become part of your growth strategy?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it sounds like was it 2021, right after COVID?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Did you hit a certain sales number and then you were ready to do it?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Or kind of what did that look like?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was always a part of our strategy because we understand that as a new brand, we have to get as many eyes on the brand as possible.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it was in the beginning very difficult.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Very, very difficult to get into retail as a completely unknown brand.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we did a lot of um, there's this, there's a store called Nooks.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: What are they called now, mom?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Market my makers or something?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Makers, yes.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: But the concept is it as a as a as a brand, you rent a small space into a large in a larger store, and then you put your product there, and then they sell it for you.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: So they don't even buy it from you.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: So in the beginning, when you're trying to get into retail, you kind of have to get real creative.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so of course we reached out to all of our friends who were uh in the cosmetic business cosmeticians, beauticians, injectors.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, can you guys please take our brand?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we will come and we'll put it on your in, you know, on your shelves in consignment.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you start with consignment, you start with you know creative business models where they're not actually buying your brand just to get traction, just to get those repeat purchases.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then once you are getting that traction, once you're getting those repeat purchases, once you have some awards behind behind you that you can say, Oh, look, this is what we have done.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is the traction that we already have.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's when other retailers are starting to look at you, but they're not even looking at you at that point yet.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think CHFA was our first um first opportunity to get into any real retailers.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you mean like creative to get sorry, Nel again?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: CHFA definitely helped us.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's um it's that organization uh that gives you opportunity uh to present your your brand in front of many, many, many retailers, right?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's why if if you have the brand that can be classified as a natural product, um, yeah, absolutely.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: I would recommend to be a member of uh KHFA, Canadian Health Food Association.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then so you mentioned creative strategies, like to first get into retail.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: By creative strategies, was it like creative contracts and agreements?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Were you guys like standing in stores or hitting like knocking on doors?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh can you define creative?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what did that what do you mean?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, knocking on doors.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but by creative, I meant so that uh the the nooks like consignment models, right?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that looks model, for example, they are not buying your product.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you are just you are paying them for shelf space and you're just placing your product on their shelf.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then hopefully there is a good salesperson there that has taken their time to learn your product, and then they will sell your product for you.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: And also, one more thing that I would suggest, and this is what we did.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I'm not saying that what we did is the only avenue that you need to pursue, or it is a correct avenue.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, this is what we did because we don't have uh experience in sales, and we are not, especially at that time, we were not good salespeople, right?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's why for what worked for us is we did a lot of bootstrapping, we did a lot of hustling, meaning that we participated in markets, in trade shows, in different events, in pop-up markets, in uh like any.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we still participate because you never know who you will meet at that particular event.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: The more eyes on your brand, the better.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because at some point, there may be a senior buyer from uh uh other chain of natural health stores that are just attending this event, right?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: And they just come across your brand, and your brand you know caught his eye, which kind of happened to us.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like it, you never know who will be there.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do not hesitate, be there, be present, talk to people.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and again, also as a small brand, our but I don't know how other brands are doing that.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: We are self funded, right?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: It means that our budget was very limited, and you spent a lot of money upfront lunching.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Your company.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's why once you launch a company, you don't have much money to be allocated to marketing, digital marketing, higher sales force, or whatever.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: You have to roll your sleeves and do it by yourself, yourself.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: And this is what we did, and this is what we recommend.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, it helps us to learn our customers better.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: You will learn what they're looking for, what is important for them, what is not important for them, um, what they are gravitating towards to.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: You will adjust your portfolio, you will adjust your sales strategy, you will adjust your ingredients or whatever.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: You will start narrowing down, you know, your vision as a business owner based on your customer feedback.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you need it.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: You cannot be disconnected from a real customer, regardless if it's a digital marketing or retail marketing.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: You need to have direct access to your customers.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually a really good point.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that some of the greatest companies are uh customer-centric, you know, Amazon, for example, but the companies we all think of, they they they know their customer.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And early on, that's a really valid point.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Understanding your customer when it came to getting into these pop-up events and the local markets and stuff like that.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Were you part of a local trade association?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Your chamber, we have chambers of commerce here in the United States.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, the equivalent in Canada, is that how you found out about these things?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then you would just sign up and then work the events essentially.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know what?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: If I um we came across a chamber of commerce and it's very helpful, and uh we kind of later on we came across other organizations.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: When you are new kid on the block, and when you just entered that space of your your own business, your entrepreneurial space, and you don't know yet anything and anyone what we did.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: We just googled uh all the local events, um all the local markets, all the local trade shows, and uh yeah, we just uh start participating.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and again, you know, don't be afraid of not making money, don't be afraid of making mistakes.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: There are some markets and some shows that were successful and some were complete bust, but you will filter it, you will filter them out, you will figure it out your way, you will figure it out your demographic, you will figure it out which market works for you and which one doesn't um work for you, and you will just go over that again.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Don't be afraid, it's it's the way to learn, you know, it's a learning curve.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's a learning curve.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, greedy guys.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: I really like that.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: That is pretty awesome.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: So now that you guys are in retail, when you think of the products, what makes something a good retail product?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you guys consider packaging, pricing?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have um when you agree to go with a retailer, do they require you to have like an advertising budget?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does it look like when you're on the show?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what should we know if we're gonna be getting on shelves for the first time?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I will start and uh I will let Marina to continue.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, um, a word of caution when a huge company approaches you as a small business, even though it can be super exciting for you as a small business, be mindful and um evaluate your own abilities in terms of delivery.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I will not name the company, but we have been approached uh a very big company who was very interested in one of our products.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: And when and we were super excited because it it's a huge breakthrough for us.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: But when they start telling us how much money we need to pay for shelf space, for the marketing budget, for other listening fees, for listen fee and other um fees, and plus they have very interesting return policy that could potentially kill you as a brand.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: When we kind of start looking at all of this and thinking, can we actually afford it?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, we could not.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: And once you sign the contract and once you you know decide to deliver, you are on the hook, right?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it can bankrupt you as a company.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Be careful, be careful.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, even though it is, as I said, it's super exciting and you want it, um, just make sure you're ready.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: Just make sure you're ready.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: For us, um, it was much easier to start with the smaller uh retailers, with a small, smaller chains, with individual um mom and dad stores that we it's it's much more streamlined business model.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, it's a direct to retailer.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like you make your you you make your product and you directly ship it, right?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: There is no distributor involved um that you need to pay, right?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Again, up to 30% to the retailer to the uh uh distributor.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, plus how quickly you can um up uh upscale your or upgrade your production to fulfill the needs, right?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like you need to keep in mind all these details before you commit.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, some companies some companies do, you know.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying that it's our model or whatever I'm suggesting is for everyone.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: If you're producing your product in thousands and thousands, and and you have enough budget uh to um go with it, go with it, right?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, in our case, it wasn't yeah, yeah.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: To your point, it it doesn't always work out.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I I've worked with a brand in the past who got into Target, it was a huge deal for them, but Target ended up being a problem because they weren't financially ready for that, and then they end up pulling out.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: And what she told me in the aftermath is like, now I can never get into Target, even though it's five years later and I'm ready, like I could do it now.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: But she lost the chance, yeah.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: So the it makes sense.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Can you meet that demand?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then, or for example, you know, what if some of these large organizations are known for doing is they place a very large order, you upscale your production, right?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now you have this huge production, and then they come back to you and say, Okay, well, we don't want that many, so either drop your price to X or we don't want it.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So now you are and now you're between a rock and a hard place.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Are you firing people that you just hired?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing with this production that you just that you just bumped, yes, and then just with your money, right?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and another thing is you know, control of your brand image.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we really want to be in control of our brand image, we really want to make sure we don't dilute our brand image.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: We work very, very hard to establish it.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Some of these really, really large stores, they don't really align with uh with our brand image, and we're not really sure if we even want to be there.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh maybe, maybe not, we haven't decided, but we're also financially not there to be able to meet their demand.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Also, if we don't fulfill the the contract, the penalties are so severe, they could bankrupt you as a small business.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: So all of these little caveats, you know, for somebody, if you have you know the funding behind you and you have you know huge production and you're ready for that, you know, that's great.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: But if somebody who is small who is just trying to get into retail, I would really save you cautious of these really, really large retail chains now, unless you're sure, sure that you're you're ready.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and to answer your original question of like, you know, what it takes, yeah, it's all of it.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's all of the above.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be, you can't just be one thing, you can't be a one-trick pony, you can't just have a good product or just have good packaging, or just have a good brand story, or just have a good margin.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: You have to have all of the above.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be able to put together a product with a story that has good packaging, that everything kind of falls along within your brand image and offer the retailers a good margin, right?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because everybody's here to make money, right?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: They're not here, they're not here to you know tell a story, they're here to make money, and the story just helps them make the money.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: And also, you know, one more thing, and again, it's related.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: My advice is um related to uh our industry, to skincare, um, because it is such an oversaturated market, and because our skincare brand is a premium uh skincare brand, we need to support our retailers.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: What do I need by that?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Is we do customer appreciation days, we do training, uh, we do in-store um um demonstrations.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, for retailer to place the first order, this is not your end game, it's only the beginning.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: The main work starts after retailer places an order.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: How do you support them that they will sell it from their store, from their shelves?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: This is where your focus shifts, right?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_04: Because you're very important, yeah.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: It you won't repeat orders, you don't want it to be a one-time purchase, and after that, they say no, no, no, we cannot sell your product.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's it, you do you you don't, or it's aging on our shelf, you know, take it back, which can possibly be a scenario as well.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: You are you have to put your uh work into selling the product with them and helping your retailers.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And these sorry, the retailers will ask you before um you know ordering what's like what are you what is your return policy?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: What do you do for sell-through?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, can we discount your product at the end?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what how are you gonna help us make sure that your product doesn't sit on a shelf, especially in a natural uh realm where everything has a limited shelf life, right?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're not using any of those crazy toxic preservatives, so it has a limited shelf life.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: You best sell it within you know six months, maybe two a year.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna do to help us sell it through?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to have that strategy before you get on the shelf.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: So for us, you know, it's demos, and you can see, like if you walk into Healthy Planet, for example, you see there's always somebody doing demos, it's a very, very common kind of but you're bootstrapping literally you're out there doing demos, you're you know, providing training for their staff so the staff can sell the product.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: You need to educate stuff, you need to provide training to the team who is selling your product, right?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Again, if it's if it's let's say if it's a um a sauce for pasta, probably you don't need to, right?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: It depends on well, it depends on the product yes that you're selling, right?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I said it's my advice is for specific kind of products, right?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: That require this training.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: Skincare requires this uh presence, require this training and education, and you have to be able to do it and willing to do it, right?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right, but so through strategy, nonetheless, you you gotta have it before you before you get into retail, you all you have to already know what you're gonna do to help these retailers sell your product, and what are you gonna do if they can't sell your product?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, yeah, something uh something I didn't even consider too, because like a lot of the conversations I have with my digital brands, it's all like, how do you get on shelves now?
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess nobody's thinking it's like once you're on shelves, how do you remove these products?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: So this is what can make you or break you.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just about getting on the shelf, it's to be sustainable as a brand, right?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's a long-term game, right?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: And as you mentioned before, um, that will that one of your friends uh she actually dropped the ball, and now she cannot get back to Target, even though she wanted to, right?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: And this is um is for every chain, for every brand, for every retailer to get into that retail space is one thing to prove that your brand is a successful brand and people like it and they will sell it and make money because making money is the end goal for retailers, it's not just to fool to fill up the space uh on the shelf, it's to make money on your brand.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: If your brand is not selling, nobody is going to deal with it.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is super helpful, guys.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have one more question and then we'll kind of just wrap it up.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of my uh a lot of the listeners and our brands, they're they're considering brokers, and some of these brokers charge a lot of money.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Do you guys have experience with brokers?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do you recommend uh a brand even start there?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like any anything you could share from us not shooting ourselves in the foot?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's a necessary evil.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: It is uh same with distribute distributors.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: There are certain retailers that will not work with you without a distributor or a broker.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um but we are actually dealing with that right now.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh mom, do you have anything?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I again, you know, a word of caution.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh not every broker and not every distributor would be a good fit for you and for your brand.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, basically the same as not every retailer is a good fit for your brand.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and do your homework because we did have uh a couple of experiences when we're so happy that we did not go over these people.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, beautiful.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what makes a good broker?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: There they understand the value add, but is it their contactless?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is it their pricing?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like what how do you identify a good broker when you're getting into it?
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, your broker, okay.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: How can I be politically correct here?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um okay, basically do your homework in terms of if that broker has a good reputation, if the broker uh had been managing uh similar brands or similar uh companies to your and he has connections in the correct industry, correct connections, if uh the reputation of the broker is very important because there are some people who will gladly take your money because they would want you to pay a retainer in addition to percentage, right?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: As uh again, depending on how much budget you have in your company.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: In our particular case, we had very limited budget, we cannot afford to pay someone for six months without getting results, yeah, right?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of brokers they will take their free time, you know, and you keep paying them.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: Again, be careful, do your homework.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well said, Nella anything to add, Marina?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um have some have a lawyer review legal paperwork.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: If you if anybody's hitting you with any legal paperwork, brokers, retailers, uh distributors, have somebody who speaks legalis because because as a brand owner, you very often don't, and there's idiots in there that you wouldn't even know, and then you're on a hook for it.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, any any legal documents make sure that they're reviewed by a legal professional.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, 100%.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, and this is a true story.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: We got caught in a situation like that, and when we requested amendments to the agreement, it immediately blew up the deal.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: The deal, yeah, and that was the end of that.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Probably a good thing, though, right?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, and that's exactly why I brought that up.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's solid, guys.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hey, thank you for joining us on the Selling on Giants podcast.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just so all our listeners know, uh be linking Neo Natural's website and all their social handles.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: I highly recommend following them uh on social media and just see what Marina and Nila's up to.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, as I walked the Chief of the show, these ladies were the only ones who had a smile on their face for two days straight.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was really pleasure getting to meet them in person.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, guys, thank you so much for joining the podcast.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much so much for giving us this opportunity too.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: Take care.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: That was Marina and Nila, founders of Neo Natural.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: One of the biggest takeaways from this conversation is that getting into retail is only the beginning.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: The real challenge is making sure your product actually sells once it's on shelves.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: They also highlighted something many digital brands underestimate.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Retail comes with real financial risk.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: From slotting fees to product production scaling and return policies, moving too fast into large retailers can put serious pressure on a business if you're not prepared.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, a strong reminder retail is a long-term game.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: It takes persistence, direct customer interactions, and ongoing support for your retail partners to build something sustainable.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you'd like to learn more about Neo Natural, you can find their website and social handles in the show notes below.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: So be please check those out.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: And thanks for listening to Selling on Giants.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll see you next time in Going Retail.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.