Latest / Hey Docs! / Reaching a Wider Audience: The Power of Multi-Channel Marketing in Orthodontics

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Reaching a Wider Audience: The Power of Multi-Channel Marketing in Orthodontics · Hey Docs!

0:04
Welcome to the Haydocks Podcast with your host Jill Allen. Today I am joined
0:10
by Luke Infinger from Hip Creative, from budget to strategy to sales training,
0:15
we are talking all things marketing. In this episode, Luke is sharing the
0:20
inside scoop on the best ways to use your marketing budget no matter the size
0:25
of your practice. So get out your notebooks. This one is going to
0:29
be a good one. Let's get into it. Hey, docs, When
0:36
it comes to marketing, I keep hearing that you're frustrated and that you don't
0:40
know what you're paying for or even if your marketing efforts are working. Are
0:45
you wondering what your next marketing move should be. I would suggest you contact
0:50
Mary kay Miller and her team at Kaleidoscope with their free digital marketing audit.
0:55
You will get answers and solutions to your biggest marketing questions. Go to contact
1:02
kl dot com to request your free digital marketing audit today. When it comes
1:07
to websites, SEO and digital advertising, you don't know what you don't know
1:12
till you know find out what you don't know today. That's contact KL dot
1:19
com. Luke. I am so excited to have you on Haydocks. I've
1:25
been looking forward to recording with you, so thanks for being here today.
1:30
Absolutely, thanks for having me super excited. Yes, this is going to
1:34
be a great episode. And I know anybody who's out there listening is sitting
1:38
on the edge of their seats being like, all right, what information is
1:42
he going to drop on us today? So I'm wondering, in the event
1:47
that somebody doesn't know who you are or doesn't know much about hip creative,
1:51
I'm wondering if you can just give us a little background on yourself and the
1:55
company. Sure, Sure, I'll give just a couple minutes of an intro.
1:59
So my background is actually on the creative and design side. I wanted
2:05
to become a designer and had done that for different companies, worked in the
2:09
church world, that type of thing, and just in getting more serious around
2:15
that, decided to go off to school. So I went to Savannah College
2:19
of Art Design SCAD in Savannah, Georgia, studied motion graphics. I was
2:23
there for a little over two years. Then I went to work in New
2:28
York in a motion design studio in Chelsea, and within six to eight months
2:34
I totally hated my job. I totally hated it, and I worked there
2:39
for about a year. I was in New York for a little over a
2:43
year, and at the time I had started to date an old friend.
2:46
So this friend we had been for instance, I was like fifteen years old.
2:51
This is about eleven and a half years ago, and so she was
2:54
graduating from the University Alabama. I hated my job. We decided to come
3:00
back to Pensacola, Florida, which was home base for both of us.
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Our families are here. We ended up getting married. We've been married for
3:07
over ten years now. Now we have two kids. And I thought I
3:12
would be back in Pensacola for a couple months. I mean, it's a
3:15
small town. It's come a long way. But I thought, you know,
3:19
I'll be back in La or in New York and doing something else.
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But I really started to lean into strengths that I always had, so being
3:29
persistent, you know, really focusing on helping people with their long term goals,
3:34
being a part of something rather than a tactical skill. And so I
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moved away from having to be a designer to I was selling design jobs,
3:44
but really I was creating relationships with companies and saying, hey, what's your
3:49
long term goal, where do you see the company in two to three years,
3:53
and let me work with you to get there, And that kind of
3:58
turned into hip. In August will be ten years old. So myself,
4:02
my wife and the other co founder, Justin Hewle I started running into tech
4:08
issues and so my wife is like, hey, you should chat with my
4:13
cousin, Justin, and so that's how Justin and myself got linked up.
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He's really good on the tech side. He grew up in small business,
4:19
so finance tech operations is kind of his thing, and you know, it
4:26
just naturally grew. We thought it would be a local agency, but we
4:30
quickly started working in medical and the Andrews Institute. If you know anything about
4:35
sports medicine orthopedic, you know the orthopedic space. Doctor James Andrews is probably
4:41
one of the biggest orthopedists in sports medicine and he has an institute here in
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Gulf Breeze, which is basically our backyard. We started working with orthopedist who
4:50
wanted to remain independent because at the time they were really being strong armed by
4:56
the hospital system who was cutting off their referrals and saying, hey, come
5:00
work for us or you won't have patience. Sure, so we helped a
5:02
number of them remain independent. And long story short, that's how doctor Ben
5:09
Fishbind found out about us. He's here in the Pensacola area now you know,
5:14
spread across the Panhandle, and we courted each other for about a year.
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So he found out about us in twenty fifteen. We met several times,
5:24
looked like we may work together, and then it just was timing wasn't
5:28
right. Timing became right. I think it was Q one of twenty twenty
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six. And you know, most people know his story. For those who
5:36
don't, he grew very rapidly and a lot of people wanted to know how
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he did it, and we became a part of his story. He started
5:46
his own event, Fishbye Fundamentals, and you know, we just kind of
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rode the wave and I'm wrapping up, so I know this is a long
5:56
intro, but now this is great, this is great perfect. Around the
6:00
twenty eighteen twenty nineteen mark, we knew we had to niche down because we
6:05
wanted to align marketing with operations and to do that orthopedic pain management. All
6:12
these things, while they're very similar, they're also very different, and so
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we decided to just solely focus in orthodonics to really hone in and understand that
6:24
business model the best that we could and create multiple things around that. So
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we've created a software around that, a secret shop tool around that, some
6:33
curriculum, and really our goal is just to make sure that the marketing actually
6:39
works, because you know, I'd love to sit here and say every single
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client has blown it out of the water with us. It's not true.
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A lot have, but some have it. And my goal is to and
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really what I'm passionate about, even if I'm just speaking like this on a
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podcast, is helping orthodonists make sure that they're marketing actually works. Because marketing
7:01
can be a pretty dirty word where we see all these guarantees on Facebook,
7:08
thirty patients guaranteed, or you know, I tried Facebook ads but it doesn't
7:12
work for me, or I wasted all this money. The truth is,
7:15
and we can unpack this, the truth is a lot of times it's not
7:19
the marketing. In some cases it is, but in a lot of cases
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it's not. Yeah yeah, And I am excited to unpack that because I
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think that's going to be something that the audience really really wants to hear.
7:32
But before we go down kind of that road, I do want to talk
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to you a little bit. You know, I've been in the industry for
7:40
quite a while now as well, and I definitely think we could both agree
7:46
even from the time when you got in and really, you know, started
7:48
focusing on the orthodonic side of you know, some of the marketing that you
7:53
guys do, that we have seen some big changes in our industry and how
7:58
we are marketing, and I think there has even been even a significant change
8:05
in pre COVID and how we marketed and post COVID and how we are marketing
8:11
now, and I believe there's still continued change that's coming. I don't think
8:16
we will ever be an esthetic position with marketing. I think we're ever evolving
8:22
when it comes to what we're doing with our practices, and you know,
8:26
just where technology is taking us. But I'm wondering if you can talk to
8:31
that, because you know, when I think of hip and I think of
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your group, I do feel like you guys have got a really good pulse
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on where things are going, and I'm going to say are pretty proactive to
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not falling into that trap of well, this is what we've done for the
8:46
last ten years, and this is the still material we're putting out, you
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know, like like some companies can kind of get trapped in. So I'm
8:54
wondering if you can kind of talk a little bit about successful marketing strategy that
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are happening now that maybe we didn't have to think as much about even as
9:07
early as you know, just some of those post COVID years, you know,
9:09
within the last five to eight years ago. Even Yeah, the way
9:13
that I kind of see at post COVID is it's just become so much more
9:18
competitive, you know, and there's a lot of reasons why. I remember
9:24
the first ad that I ever ran, you know, again, starting about
9:26
ten years ago, Facebook was like the wild West. You know. You
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could target religion, you could target square footage of home, you could target
9:35
credit scores, all these things, and there wasn't so much regulation. Now
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regulation and some of those things in terms of changes have been good because a
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lot of the spammy offers and things like that are not allowed, even though
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some still run, but they quickly get shut down. You know, maybe
9:58
there's a orthodonisty even listening and they're has been deactivated or these things. So
10:03
it used to be the wild West, and it was a bit easier for
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sure, But that's not the only challenge. You know, when I think
10:11
back and I hear stories from orthodonist or dentists twenty years ago, I mean
10:16
they weren't even allowed to advertise. They were like measuring the sign on their
10:20
building because it could only be so big. And so from there you move
10:24
into that changed and there was traditional advertising and mailers and billboards and TV and
10:30
all this. Then there's the Internet and that brought forth a ton of options.
10:35
And then when you move into really just the competitive landscape with corporate entities
10:41
DSOs osos now dentists becoming a large competitor on the aligner side, there's so
10:50
much more noise and there's things like in really the past couple years, Snapchat,
10:56
TikTok, so there's more information than ever before, there's more advertisers than
11:01
ever before, and how can we actually stand out above the noise? So
11:07
when we talk about being more competitive, I mean DSOs OSOS obviously they've probably
11:13
gotten a lot more aggressive with AdSpend. When you look at big aligner companies,
11:18
it's hard to outbid them from a Google ad standpoint, So how does
11:24
small practice still keep the edge because that's really what I'm passionate about is private
11:31
practice. You know, the bread and butter for us is start up to
11:35
three or four million dollar practice. That's most of our partners, and I
11:39
believe that's the best care is private practice. And so I think there is
11:45
a big advantage because you can move really fast if you're in business for yourself.
11:50
I mean you know this. You know, as we've grown at hip,
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you know it can be frustrating sometimes because you can't move at the same
11:58
speed, and so a private practice has a real advantage there. The patient
12:03
experience is huge, so tightening that up, focusing on some of the boring
12:09
things like operations. I asked a guy the other day, when's the last
12:15
time you listen to a new patient phone call? He never had, And
12:18
so we can unpack some more of these things as well. But I think
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it goes well beyond marketing. But you also still have to do marketing,
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and the goal should really be omnipresence today. You know, now it depends
12:33
on your goal and your budget, but you want to be everywhere you want
12:37
to be in the community. You probably still want to market to dentists,
12:41
even though they may be a competitor. They're going to send the more complex
12:46
cases to you. You probably want some type of sometimes mailer campaigns or billboards,
12:52
and you want digital ads, and you want a good website and SEO.
12:56
Now that all sounds great, but what's my budget? What can I
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actually afford? But you know, it's very competitive. We hear this phrase
13:07
in politics, like the rich get richer and the poor get poor. I
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think we're seeing that in small business, where you know it can be a
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winner takes all market and you see the people who do well just continue to
13:18
do well, and that's going to squeeze out some of the people who may
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not be adaptable. And that's for any small business, not just ORTHO.
13:26
Yeah. Yeah, great information there, and I cannot agree with you more.
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I look back having been in this industry for you know, a little
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over thirty years now, and I can tell you from when I was working
13:37
in a practice and it was so one dimensional our marketing strategies, you know,
13:43
to where we're at now, and you did touch on it. I
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think that we cannot just lean on just digital marketing or just reaching out to
13:56
the dentist or just being in the community. This is a horrible analogy,
13:58
but I think it's a good one. We really kind of have to take
14:03
this shotgun approach in the sense that we need to be in a lot of
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places. Not that we aren't just worrying about the scatter effect and just throwing
14:11
money wherever we're just throwing it at. We're very strategic about where we're putting
14:16
that money and how we are going after each of those markets, but yet
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keeping in mind that they're all important, especially I think from a startup perspective.
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When you know, I always tell my docs, it's about brand awareness.
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Yeah, we just need people to be aware that you're there, and
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as you grow, it becomes about recognition in the sense that they will start
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to recognize your brand because they've seen it here and because they've seen it there,
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and you're popping up in all of these places, and that's you know,
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that's that's ultimately what we hope to get to. Yeah. Yeah,
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And I was going to say, you know, just in looking at a
14:52
sales funnel, this is a big lie. I think where the sales funnel
14:58
can be looked at too, to which is awareness and then decision. People
15:03
should be made aware of me, and then they should just make a decision.
15:07
Now, that's that's great, you know. And I was talking to
15:11
a guy the other day who wrote ads for the newspaper or publication. This
15:15
was like thirty years ago, and he he would write an ad and back
15:20
then, you know, you can make these crazy claims like your top point
15:24
zero one percent client. You'd write the claim around that, and I mean
15:28
it was like literally a money printer, like it would just print money.
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And that is just not the case today. True people are so guarded today.
15:39
You know, we hear all these stories, We have all these options.
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I mean, I could literally get a liner sent to my house probably
15:46
in five minutes on my phone. And so what is the full sales funnel
15:50
you talked about awareness that's at the top, getting some recognition. Okay,
15:56
now maybe I'm considering, but I'm considering maybe against even something like horizontal like
16:03
a TV. Yep, you know, I have to consider, am I
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going to buy a TV this month? Or braces? I have to consider
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am I going to go with a DII wire or the local orthodonist or I'm
16:15
already have a dentist and they said they could do it. So now I'm
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in this consideration stage. And then maybe I'm in a decision stage, and
16:23
that decision stage could take a year in some cases more. And so I
16:30
totally understand the whole desire to place an ad get awareness and my practice just
16:36
fills up. And sometimes that does happen. There are exceptions, and we
16:40
love it, you know, when that happens. Yeah, hold those fingers
16:42
up again. We're crossing our fingers on that one. Yeah. But most
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of the time we have to be more realistic and have a good expectation about
16:53
the funnel. And I think it's just that orthodonists don't know. Nobody tells
17:00
them these things, and they hear these success stories. And I do this
17:06
too. I've been guilty of going and buying the thing and like, hope
17:10
it just works. But in many cases it can be too good to be
17:14
true. Yeah, And I really appreciate that you took the time to just
17:18
kind of walk us through. And I love your analogy of a sales funnel
17:22
because that really is what it is. And I have thought for a long
17:26
time in our industry, even to the TC, the treatment coordinating room,
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you know, the word sales for so long has been the taboo word.
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Oh we aren't we aren't doing sales. Well, the reality of it is,
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folks, we are doing sales. This is really is what we're doing,
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and down to marketing as well. And I think that that's such a
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good point to point out. And I do believe maybe a little bit our
17:52
younger docs understand that a little bit better because you know, they've had this
17:56
in front of them a lot of times. They're, you know, depending
18:00
upon their age, from the very beginning, there's components of sales that are
18:03
baked into everything where maybe some of our senior docs and different generations have not
18:11
had it so in your face per se. But I really love that analogy
18:15
of thinking of it that way and just that buyer's journey, and it really
18:19
is that gone are the days where you just take a referral from a dentist
18:25
and go, well, because they told me to go to this doctor,
18:29
therefore I go to it. You know. It's kind of like thinking that
18:30
what we hear on the television is well, of course they said it,
18:34
so therefore it must be right or definitely a different generation now for sure,
18:41
totally. So let's talk a little bit about I know a lot of listeners
18:47
that are on the show are startup docs, younger docs that are getting into
18:51
this, and you know, this is a conversation I have a lot with
18:55
doctors, and it's a hard one because you know, not only is it
18:59
hard to do a startup and depict your location and to break into our industry,
19:06
but it's very rare that we're going to do a startup or get a
19:11
business started where we are not going to have competition. And unfortunately, a
19:15
lot of times our competition are the goliaths out there. You know, they're
19:21
the DSOs and the osos that gosh, they've got a budget that we're like,
19:26
man, if I can even make that much, you know, I'll
19:30
be happy let alone, that's just air quote disposable money to put towards marketing.
19:34
So I'm kind of wondering what your advice is or you know, some
19:40
of the strategies that you can talk about for younger doctors, especially when we're
19:45
on a budget and we know that we're looking to just cover our baseline expenses,
19:52
those static expenses as we're getting going, so you know, kind of
19:56
how do we position ourselves and then also think about this from a budget perspective
20:02
as well. Yeah, I think it was true a Kathy who said,
20:04
if we get better, then our customers will demand we get bigger. And
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so this is a massive area for private practice to win because I just don't
20:15
think and this isn't to like slam DSOs or osos, but in large organizations,
20:22
from what I've seen, it could take a year to change one small
20:26
thing because you have to then push that change across fifty locations or three hundred
20:32
locations. In a private practice, you could change something in an hour.
20:37
And so looking at it from that perspective, if we get better, where
20:41
do most people not like going, especially for a doctor. They don't like
20:47
going to the corporate entity, They don't like going to the hospital. They
20:52
want to support the local doctor who is in the community. And a lot
20:56
of people want to support local business in role. And so the beautiful thing
21:02
about that, like, for me, the best menswear store here in Pensacola
21:07
is locally owned, the person's an expert, they can do alterations in the
21:11
store, all these things that I couldn't get like at Dillard's or something.
21:17
And that's kind of the comparison where you can have such a better experience and
21:23
then you can use that experience in your marketing so with testimonials, with reviews
21:30
in your copy, like we focus on these things. We make it fun.
21:34
And that's that's why I love orthodonics, is like it is really fun.
21:38
I'm seeing all these reels and tiktoks and it's like, man, I
21:41
want to go there and it looks like they're having a big party. You
21:45
can market that and the whole experience can be thought through and fun and you
21:52
can be kind of like the Chick fil A of your local market. DSOs
21:56
and osos probably aren't going to do that. You have to think that they
22:00
are led by bankers and at the end of the day, that is how
22:06
they're making decisions. So you know, in some cases I've seen practices post
22:11
transition where they're not as fun, or maybe they have to adopt some of
22:15
these systems that are more corporate, And that can be okay if that's what's
22:22
best for the organization, But in terms of private practice, I think there's
22:26
a major leg out there. Yeah, yeah, that's great information, and
22:30
I think it kind of gives the single proprietor you know, doctor practices,
22:37
just some hope that yes, it does kind of feel like a little David
22:40
and Goliath sometimes when it comes to marketing. But as a single doctor practice
22:45
or just a few location practice. I love what you said. You can
22:48
pivot very easily. You can make moves, you can be nimble. It's
22:53
easy to pull the levers and make changes where the bigger group. It's like
23:00
changing the course of a big ship versus a little speedboat. You know that.
23:04
You know that's going to take a long time for that rudder to kick
23:07
in and start moving that boat around. So I'm curious what you might think
23:12
about. Let's say you're talking to your sister who just started an orthopractice,
23:18
and she's like, hey, Luke, I've only got this measly amount of
23:22
money to spend. You know, where where should I put my efforts.
23:29
I get it that I can kind of change what I'm doing, and I
23:32
get that I kind of have to be all over the place. But in
23:34
the end, the bank only lended you know, so much money. I
23:38
only have so much earmarked. We do not have the ar I'm not even
23:42
paying myself yet. You know, I'm still working hard to be an associate
23:47
to get to the point where I can pay myself. So I'm kind of
23:48
curious if you can kind of talk to that doctor or your you know air
23:53
quote sister here about where would you advise they're going to get the best bang
23:59
for their buck or what they should be looking at. Knowing that resources are
24:04
not we just can't keep pulling from the money tree totally. Well, first
24:10
off, you know, maybe you guys help with this, helping them create
24:14
some type of budget and getting realistic. So work with someone like Jill who
24:18
can actually help you, because I see so many people who get on calls
24:23
with us and they have no budget. They've ran out of money, and
24:27
now marketing and getting new patients in the door has become an afterthought and kind
24:33
of the last thing which I get. But create some type of plan.
24:37
Be proactive when you're going to the bank or going to a finance partner,
24:41
be thinking about all the pieces, not just what you need to practice at
24:48
the level that you want to offer clinically, but first and foremost, you're
24:52
now a business owner, and so how are you going to get patients in
24:56
the door. But what I would do if it was my sister, I
25:00
would kind of separate time and money, and time would be boots on the
25:04
ground, shaking hands, meeting other business owners, getting out in the community
25:11
as much as time allowed on the money side, and we can go as
25:15
deep as you want to go around this. Facebook and Instagram's going to be
25:19
the most infinite lead source. However it's the lowest quality. And when we
25:26
talk about that sales funnel, yes, I talk to people all the time.
25:30
You probably do too, when you're like, yeah, I work with
25:32
the Orthodonis and they're like, oh, yeah, I just got a feeling
25:34
last week, and you're like, not the same thing, you know.
25:38
And so when we start talking about Facebook ads, I see people's guards come
25:44
up and their feathers get ruffled, and yeah, we tried it, and
25:48
we got all these bad leads or people would opt in and then we couldn't
25:51
get a hold of them. First off, just to kind of show you
25:53
how it works on my side of the fence, I show to Orthodonis this
25:57
the other day where we had to call him over three years, three different
26:03
sales reps, between text and phone calls and emails, fifty two touches before
26:08
he got on a call and then he became a client. Now, most
26:12
people during that time would tell me that we're crazy, why do you keep
26:17
calling him? He wouldn't even respond, he's probably a bad lead. And
26:22
this happens all the time in businesses everywhere. But again it goes back to
26:29
expectations. If we set the expectation of it's the lowest quality lead. But
26:33
what can I do to make them more aware of the differences between orthodonist and
26:41
dentistry, make them interested in our practice, move them forward to consideration,
26:47
and then get them in the practice for a console. And if we offer
26:51
a better experience and we're within their budget and we're flexible, they're probably going
26:56
to say yes if they have a need. You know. So I think
26:59
Facebook is the easiest source. When I say Facebook, it's now metas of
27:03
Facebook and Instagram, that's going to be the easiest place in terms of a
27:07
budget to get leads. But if all these things aren't right to nurture those
27:15
leads, then you're probably going to say it was a waste of money.
27:18
So then this can be challenging, and I know you deal with this all
27:22
the time with startups. Staff is very limited, yes, so especially now,
27:27
it's very expensive too, and attrition's very high. Sensed COVID, So
27:32
that's kind of one thing when you brought up COVID that I didn't hit on
27:34
is turnover is really really tough. But that is a challenge and that's something
27:41
that you're going to have to work through in terms of offering the right I'll
27:47
call it sales process, you could call it scheduling process. But that lead
27:52
source is going to be the most infinite, and I mean depending on what
27:56
area you're in. You know, you can get leads for between five dollars
28:00
to one hundred dollars. Google's going to be more expensive. It's more competitive,
28:06
especially if you're bidding on things like invisile line and clear aligners, because
28:11
all these companies are running ads around aligners and invisile ligne specifically keywords, and
28:17
so it makes it very tough to compete in that space, and leads can
28:22
be hundreds of dollars. Now the caveat they're further down the funnel because they're
28:26
actually searching. Think about scrolling on Facebook or Instagram and we click on an
28:32
ad that's actually interruption. That ad interrupted what I'm doing. Now, I'll
28:37
be the first to admit I'm kind of an easy sell. I'll buy things,
28:42
and some things I buy like I don't even use. I've tried to
28:45
be more careful about that. But think of most people opting in. It's
28:51
so easy to opt in on these platforms. There's no attachment there. So
28:56
when you call them and they say, oh, yeah, that wasn't me,
29:00
click, a lot of times it was them. They just aren't ready,
29:06
you know. And so if we look at it that way, if
29:08
I'm an orthodonist or my sister in this case you had kind of mentioned,
29:14
i don't care as much about no shows. I'm probably going to double book
29:18
the slot if it's a Facebook lead yep, and make the slot shorter because
29:22
they may not show up. I'm even if I get a hold of them,
29:26
I may even pitch hate. Would you mind if we just move forward
29:29
with a virtual consultation, It'll be easier for you. I'll text you a
29:33
few images. We can get the process started now. Yeah, my generation
29:37
and younger are going to appreciate that. And so again it's that adaptability.
29:44
Think through things. Don't say yeah, it's all bad leads, because I
29:47
can tell you right now there's people adding millions of dollars in production from Facebook.
29:52
So did they, you know, find this magic Facebook land of good
29:57
leads? Where did they really go through the painful steps of tweaking all these
30:03
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because every smile deserves a suite of excellence. I really appreciate that answer,
31:00
and I could not agree with you more. It is just about kind of
31:03
adjusting the dials or the levers and getting out of our traditional way of thinking
31:11
about marketing and that it's we do it this one way, and we expect
31:17
all of our patients to fall into this one little funnel of how they're going
31:21
to interact with us, and therefore it will result in whatever that outcome is
31:26
that we're looking for. And you know, I think we're seeing this just
31:30
in general in our industry where there's a lot of disruptors right now going on,
31:34
just in the way we're treating patients to the way we're meeting patients.
31:38
I like to say, you know, let's meet them where they're at.
31:41
And I love it that you brought up even thinking about it from a generational
31:47
perspective. You know, I've lectured on this a couple different times and said,
31:51
we have never been in a time where we have had so many generations
31:57
in our practices. And if you think about it, we've got all the
32:02
way up to baby boomers, all the way down to alphas now coming into
32:07
our practice. What an incredible you know, And if you were to say,
32:12
well, I'm just going to continue to focus my marketing efforts on the
32:16
way, the tried and true, the way we did it with Gen X
32:19
and baby boomers, versus thinking about the way we do it with millennials and
32:22
then the totally different way that we may do it with gen Z or all
32:27
of these different ones that are out there now, I think we're really missing
32:30
the mark. And I love what you're saying there about we're thinking about marketing
32:34
differently. Let's think about how we're meeting each of these patients, and we
32:37
may have different strategies depending upon the way the leads are coming in and the
32:42
type of leads that are coming in into the practice. So I love that
32:46
I always say are you may appreciate this or may not like it that I
32:51
say this, But for my docs, I always say a lot of our
32:54
leads that are coming from our online where they don't have like a personal connection
33:00
to us, they found us however it is, but it wasn't like a
33:02
direct, warm lead. I call those our be patients. We're going to
33:07
be cautiously optimistic that they show up and that they start, but it doesn't
33:12
mean that we're not going to work on them and treat them and treat them
33:16
as if they are they could be a start. We just may have to
33:21
alter where we're meeting them. You know, I love that virtual. I'm
33:24
going to take it back to the virtual the other thing that you talked a
33:28
little bit about, and I don't want to get too much down a rabbit
33:30
hole on this one, but I don't think that we talk enough about cold
33:37
leads, and you know, I feel like that is such an untapped market
33:43
and I think you were just talking about that even in the story that you
33:46
talked about about the doctor that you have been contacting for multiple times, and
33:51
I think it's not even something we talk much about, you know, when
33:54
we think about marketing. And again, I don't want to get too much
33:58
down the rabbit hole here, but I love that you brought that up,
34:01
because there is you know, sometimes we think about, well, they didn't
34:06
call us back, so we're just going to discontinue them and never think about
34:08
them again. Where with the right team and the right strategy, there is
34:15
a whole nother campaign that we can you know, set up. And I
34:20
know this is getting way in the weeds here in the marketing, but I
34:23
think I foresee that we're going to see more and more of that coming into
34:28
our industry, where we are going to be kind of dealing with drip campaigns
34:31
and cold leads and how are we without feeling like a used car salesman,
34:37
but still staying in front of them knowing that it is a buying process,
34:42
and that there is more going on than just I saw an ad and I
34:45
call and I start, which I think was such an old way of thinking
34:49
about the way we do it. Yeah, and I think that's why DI
34:52
I Wires. Well, that's what DI Wires actually showed us is obviously we
34:58
know the treatment level is not there, but they were really good at marketing
35:01
and warming people up. And you know, I opted into all their funnels.
35:07
So I'm still getting blasted by some of them, but you know,
35:10
I can tell you that the touch points are there and they don't give up.
35:16
And so when people say, man, like, why do people choose
35:21
them, like it's so obvious that I'm the better choice, Well, it's
35:25
because they were in communication with the person yep, so many times. And
35:31
I'm curious your thoughts around this, because I know you deal with this a
35:35
lot in your consulting. So many times we hear team members say yeah,
35:38
I called them once or I sent them a text. Well, first off,
35:42
like where did you call them? Like where's this track exactly? But
35:49
you know, then you could get into well what was said? What was
35:52
the messaging? Like, I mean we see text messages go out that's like,
35:55
hey, Jill, if you're interested, call us back on this number.
36:00
It's like, well, maybe that's probably not the best text we could
36:05
have sent, So we have to look at those things. But yeah,
36:07
why not get leads and put them through a nurture campaign. And then again,
36:13
if we're adaptable and we can tweak things easily, maybe we can have
36:16
some videos in that campaign. Maybe we can introduce the different team members.
36:22
And if it's built and it's automated in a CRM, it can just run
36:25
its course and some people are going to warm up to that and some people
36:30
aren't. Then you can actually take all the dormant leads and put them in
36:35
what we call a reactivation campaign and say you send out an offer or some
36:39
type of invite to get them back in the practice a couple times a year.
36:45
Well, now you're giving the most squeeze and you're reaping the reward from
36:50
the ad spend that you are spending. And this could even go into your
36:54
domain of like working pendings. I mean I'll talk to people all the time
37:00
and they're asking me, well, we call people one time and send them
37:05
one text, like is that okay for pendings? No? So there's all
37:08
this opportunity exactly, you know, and especially now after the big boom after
37:15
COVID, I think we're two and a half years actually in a slow decline,
37:21
you know, where ORTHO has actually been down now that's measured against the
37:24
biggest year of all time post COVID. But if that is the case,
37:30
I think that we have to get really creative and make the most of every
37:35
opportunity. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And that kind of leads me
37:38
into my next question. And I think you guys have done a really good
37:44
job at identifying this, and I think we're seeing more and more messaging around
37:47
this. But really, when the sales process begins, and for so many
37:53
years we have all looked at it as again you know, coming from where
37:59
we were and how we did marketing to you know, the sales process starts
38:02
when that patient gets in front of the TC, you know, and all
38:05
the magic happens there. I'm curious to hear I have my opinions on this,
38:09
but I'm curious to hear where you guys are saying that sales process actually
38:15
starts. Yeah. Well, first off, the word sales. I believe
38:20
everything is sales, and you could reword it as this influence, you know,
38:24
whether it's church, a religion. Let's not bring up the used car
38:30
part, but you know, consulting and you're trying to get a team to
38:32
buy into what you're saying. Yep, down to actual transaction, it's all
38:38
influence. And so I think, first we have to change our mindset of
38:43
even things like marketing and sales. They're not these dirty words. We sadly
38:49
there's been people who have done things that are unethical to paint that picture,
38:53
but when we boil it down, it's not the case. For people who
38:57
want to help people. You probably have to do some marketing, and you
39:00
probably have to do some sales, probably have to work on the experience,
39:05
and you could just call all of that like, how can I influence more
39:07
people? And the first touch point is wherever they hear or see your brand.
39:15
That's when the process begins. So whether they go google you and call
39:21
the practice and maybe that's more traditional. Even a traditional way is the dentists
39:25
hands them a referral card and then they're going to call or they see an
39:30
ad and they start thinking is this for me? Do I need this?
39:36
Now? Does little Johnny or Sally need braces? Like that's when it starts.
39:43
And we have to also think about some things that consumers do, like
39:46
have you ever seen an AD and screenshot the ad versus click the AD?
39:52
I have. I actually used to save them in my notes. Have you
39:54
ever opened the landing page or offer in your FARIAPP? I have iPhone and
40:01
you don't do anything with it. It just sits there. I'll come look
40:05
at this later. And so there could be all this time and distance between
40:10
that first interaction and then moving forward. But there's all these steps that need
40:16
to take place. But really the first place that that sales process starts is
40:22
wherever they hear see. It could be at a bridal expo. Yeah,
40:24
it could be a friend at an event and oh yeah you should go see
40:30
doctor Jill or you know whatever. But that's where it starts. And then
40:34
how does it continue? And as the owner, do we know all the
40:39
touch points that are happening. I don't like micromanaging, but I do think
40:45
that orthodonis, who are in business for themselves, have a responsibility to know,
40:51
Yeah, this is the level that matches our practice. This is the
40:53
culture all the way from the AD or how I introduced the acticet a bridal
41:00
expo or lunch and learn all the way through the first phone call. I
41:05
was on a call with somebody the other day and we were chatting, and
41:08
he was down for the year, and we started talking about phones. I
41:14
said, Okay, when's the last time you looked at your scripting? You
41:16
know, because no shows are higher, bookings are down. So I get
41:21
a team member while I'm on the call with them, I slack a team
41:23
member and I say, hey, could you just call and like record it.
41:28
I send him the recording and I don't give him my thoughts. I
41:30
just say, hey, what do you think? He probably stayed up because
41:34
he responded late in the night, you know. And now I feel bad.
41:37
But he wrote me back this novel of like I had never I haven't
41:42
listened to a call in a decade. Here's all the things that are wrong
41:45
with it. I'm embarrassed, so forth and so on. Now the reality
41:51
is it wasn't that bad. You know, we're our worst critic. But
41:53
there was some clear things to improve. And so again, if we go
41:59
back to the the sister analogy of what would I tell my sister, it
42:02
would be to make sure that you know what's happening at every touch point.
42:07
You may know doctor Moffatt who's in Australia, he built all the touches and
42:14
I think he had ninety nine touches in his book and he made sure that
42:17
he gave the okay on every single touch and then his team carried that out.
42:23
Yeah, yeah, that's great. And you know, I think what
42:25
you're talking about is that consistency with your messaging and you know, making sure
42:32
that everybody on the team understands the importance of that as well, because that's
42:39
something you know, we talked about. You never know who's going to answer
42:43
that phone. We think it's going to be our front desk team that's trained
42:45
on it, but it could be our clinical team, it could be you
42:49
know, but beyond just who's picking up the phone, which I think we're
42:52
kind of half and half on how patients are interacting with us, you know,
42:57
through phones, I think, and you said this a little bit earlier,
43:00
but it's that messaging in how does our text sound. Is it consistent
43:05
with the way we would answer the phones or is it this cold dry sounds
43:08
like a robot wrote this. You know, A type of a text or
43:13
the email that goes out all these different touches. Is there consistency where they're
43:17
getting the same messaging but also the same vibe or the same feel as if
43:22
it doesn't matter which method of communication they're choosing to interact with us, it
43:29
doesn't feel like it's inconsistent or they're being catfished a little bit in the sense.
43:34
And I know that's an old phrase, but still in that like,
43:37
yeah, wait a minute, I'm seeing this ad, I'm calling, I'm
43:40
getting a text, and I feel like this isn't even the same company.
43:45
Yeah yeah, And I mean we're talking about a lot here, and it
43:50
is a lot, and it can be overwhelming. And so the practices that
43:54
I see grow I won't say easier, because it's not easy, but the
44:00
practices that continue to grow even in a downturn. They're working with people like
44:05
yourself. They're not afraid to go out and hire the consultant or the group
44:08
to get help. Because there's so much more to do and think about in
44:14
today's age. And I'd love to sit here and say it's going to get
44:17
easier, but with AI coming and other platforms coming, it's actually probably going
44:23
to get harder and more competitive because to go back to the larger organizations.
44:28
Who's going to be the most innovative with AI. Probably they will because they
44:32
have the funding. Now again, I still think we have levers to pool
44:38
which we can focus on the human to human element. Ultimately, I don't
44:42
really care what AI can do. It can't replace a human anytime soon,
44:47
and so we can be more creative there. And there's still tools we can
44:52
use and there's groups that we can work with to help. But it is
44:55
a lot. It can be overwhelming, and you need to find a place
45:00
to start. And this could even turn into I wanted to talk about creating
45:04
short term goals and long term goals, actually mapping that out and what do
45:08
we need to focus on in the next ninety days. Ye, so many
45:14
practices they're just trying to survive and put out fires. Again, this transcends
45:19
orthodonics. It's every small business, which is why so many fail. But
45:23
you have to create short term and long term goals and you have to have
45:28
some targets otherwise it's like there's just so much to do that a lot of
45:32
times people do nothing. Yeah, such good insight, for sure. So
45:37
I want to switch gears a little bit and have you talked to us just
45:40
a little bit about and we touched on this a little bit earlier, but
45:46
marketing methods one versus another, and I think that there really is this,
45:52
I don't know, perception out there. And I loved when you said,
45:57
you know, a lot of times doctors think about marketing as everything else hasn't
46:00
worked, and so you know, they're like at the very bottom and now
46:04
they're saying, Okay, now I'll think about marketing. But I feel like
46:07
a lot of times we think about marketing as the magic pill, the flip
46:10
side of it. You know, well, if I just have good marketing,
46:13
of course I'm going to be successful. And I think you and I
46:15
would both agree that it takes a combination of a good team good marketing.
46:21
You know, it kind of takes everything in place. But I'm curious if
46:23
you can talk to that just a little bit and what you're seeing as far
46:29
as one method versus another and how it correlates to success. Yeah, I've
46:37
heard it all from don't ever run a Facebook ad to the only platform that
46:42
works as Google to take the form off my website because we don't like those
46:46
patients. I mean, you really hear it all in terms of one being
46:52
better than the other. There's a lot of factors. I mean, what
46:57
type of practice do you want. Do you want something that is very boutique
47:01
that you're only gonna serve a specific age range where it's going to be you're
47:08
the top price in the area. Well, Facebook may not be the best
47:14
platform. You may get frustrated with it because it's more volume based. You're
47:17
going to have to go through more at bats to win the patient. So
47:22
maybe you do pour more into your website SEO educational materials as well as focus
47:30
on some of the ground game things in the local community. I do think
47:34
that the local community is overlooked a lot, especially by the people who are
47:38
more bullish with social paid ads. We'll just run Facebook ads and yeah,
47:44
we'll spend a ton of money there. And I don't want to waste my
47:46
time going in the community. I don't want to talk to dentist anymore.
47:50
And I see a missed opportunity there too, because it sometimes can be unpredictable
47:55
or you could hit a lull and so when one sore may not be working
48:00
as well this month, do I have other options? But yeah, it
48:05
really depends, you know. For instance, in Florida where I am.
48:09
You know, medicaid is okay, it's better reimbursement. There's a lot of
48:14
medicaid practices, a lot of low fee models. I talk to a lot
48:19
of people and they're kind of like, you know, it's the Ben Buris
48:21
model, and you may like him or not like him, but he did
48:23
kind of do something innovative, and that model could be really really good on
48:30
Facebook, and maybe more so than even making sense of spending money on Google
48:37
Ads. So it really depends what the type of practice that you want.
48:42
It depends on your area in your market. For instance, paid ads in
48:45
Beverly Hills or New York City. I mean, it's going to take a
48:50
lot more to make a dentt These are the most advertised markets in the world,
48:57
and you have a tiny budget. It's really really tough. So I
49:01
do think it depends on multiple factors. But again, you know, if
49:06
we're just talking about leads, which could not mean anything other than somebody's opting
49:12
in. The easiest place to go is Facebook, but it may not be
49:17
the best place to go depending on the practice that you want. Sure,
49:22
Oh that's great. So I'm curious as we finish up here and you've just
49:27
been dropping pearls this whole time, which is and I know my audience has
49:30
been on the edge of their seat like, oh that was a good one.
49:32
Oh that was a good one. But as we're kind of finishing up
49:36
here, I'd love it if you could give us three pieces of marketing advice.
49:40
And again, you've been dropping us pearls this whole way, but if
49:44
you've got maybe just a little bit more that if the doctors were to walk
49:49
away, leave this show and be like, Okay, I can implement this
49:52
right away, or I can really start thinking about this right away, what
49:58
would those be. One of the biggest I think is just mindset again,
50:02
starting to take on the mindset of you're a business owner first and then the
50:07
artist and the orthodonist second. And I know that can be really tough,
50:14
but if you want a viable business, you have to do it. So
50:16
starting to read books like the e Myth or entrepreneurial stories, or studying these
50:23
business owners who have paved the way. We can find out the information that's
50:30
the beautiful thing about today, it's all at our fingertips. So mindset number
50:34
one, if it were me, I would find a way to make Facebook
50:38
work in my practice, if you're sitting here listening saying, oh my goodness,
50:43
I can't believe you're saying that, or I really can't try it again
50:45
again, it's an infinite source. I mean, you can spend a lot
50:50
of money there because it's just impressions and you're not necessarily bidding for limited keyword
50:54
search. But it's the lowest quality lead. So can I install all the
51:00
right systems automation to make it work? And then lastly, I was listening
51:06
to a podcast from I think it was the Scheduling Institute, and something really
51:10
stood out to me that was on that podcast was the human capital. And
51:15
the phrase that I remember was if the human capitals not right, don't invest
51:22
in marketing. And so that third thing would just be people. You know,
51:25
it's become really tough. You probably have to have some leadership skills,
51:31
and you have to probably have some type of incentives where as you grow,
51:37
your team can grow and what's in it for them. I talked to so
51:40
many orthodontists. I'm like, yeah, how do you incentivize your team?
51:45
Oh? I don't do that, you know, it's just it's a simple
51:47
gig. It should be low pay, and maybe it is hourly, but
51:52
there has to be an upside. Yeah, you know, there has to
51:55
be something that they can see growth in your business, because if not,
52:00
they can quit and literally go work for Amazon or Facebook and they can just
52:06
roll out of bed and hop on a computer and they're at work. And
52:08
so what's going to keep good people in your practice? And people is the
52:14
name of the game. If you don't have good people, you cannot grow.
52:17
Yeah, exactly, it's like the book Who Not How right? You
52:22
know, it's all about your who's. You as a doctor should not be
52:27
the one figuring it all out. You surround yourself with good who's whether it's
52:30
a company or whether it's an investment into a live body in your practice.
52:35
But that is the key to success, right there is who you're surrounding yourself
52:38
with great good advice. So if somebody wants to get a hold of you,
52:42
guys, if they're like, all right, Luke has some good information.
52:45
I just want to get some questions answered. Maybe this is the right
52:49
time for me to really jump in and really take my marketing seriously. What's
52:52
going to be the best way they can do that? Sure, I'd love
52:55
to talk to anyone who has questions. You could email me to directly.
53:00
It's Luke So that's l u k E at Hip Creative Inc. That's Hip
53:05
Creative i NC dot com. Wonderful. All right, Luke. Well,
53:09
the way I like to finish up my podcast is I like to throw everybody
53:13
into a quick speed round. Are you ready? Are you ready to accept
53:16
the speed round challenge? Yes? All right. If you could start any
53:22
business right now, what would it be? Hmm, that is a great
53:25
question. I would probably start the same business and maybe multiple agencies in different
53:34
verticals. You know, the way that we built Hip is on a niche,
53:37
and I really believe in niching down and focusing on one vertical. So
53:44
it would probably be the same business, just in a different vertical. Yeah.
53:46
Great. What's the best investment you've ever made? The best investment I've
53:52
ever made is actually investing in creating a family. So you know, that's
54:00
where I like to spend my time. If I could spend all of my
54:02
time with my family, I'll say I would love it. Maybe maybe maybe
54:07
I wouldn't. Distance makes makes the heart grow fonder, I don't know,
54:10
But for me, that has been the biggest reward is my family seeing them
54:16
grow. I have two kids and live out on a farm, and so
54:21
we have we have fun. Oh that sounds wonderful. How do you handle
54:24
work related stress? So any stress? And this may be interesting for some
54:31
people. I tell myself that it's really not that big of a deal.
54:36
I love history, so whether it's going and watching some documentary on World War
54:40
Two and kind of envisioning myself in somebody's someone else's shoes, that's way more
54:46
difficult. While everyone's life has ups and downs, I truly believe there's never
54:52
been an easier time to do whatever it is you want to do. From
54:58
start a business. You have the internet. You know, you could run
55:00
a business somewhat here. You know, maybe not so well, maybe you
55:04
need a bigger screen. But the most stressful situation I've ever been in is
55:08
probably not that big of a deal compared to somebody who had to storm the
55:13
beaches of Normandy, you know. I mean, so thinking about who's come
55:17
before us and made it to where we have it pretty easy, that's what
55:23
helps me. And I love biography, so whether it's JW. Marriott or
55:29
studying people like Truet Kathy who had to create businesses. In the depression,
55:34
he had businesses burned to the ground, his business partner, his brother died
55:37
in an airplane crash. I mean that's really really tough. I've got it
55:43
pretty easy. Yeah, I love that, And it's really kind of keeping
55:45
it in perspective, right, you know a lot of time, not that
55:50
some of us can't go through tragedies for sure, but yeah, a lot
55:53
of times it's just perspective, you know, looking at it. Yeah,
55:55
totally am so. As we finish up here. One trend in in our
56:00
industry that you're excited about AI, Yeah, I think AI is going to
56:06
be a massive driver. I don't think it's going to replace people. I
56:09
think it's gonna come down to how do people leverage the tool? Yep,
56:14
I totally agree with you. And then final question, most valuable piece of
56:19
advice you would give somebody starting their business go all the way, jump all
56:23
in. Don't try and say I'm going to try and go about it the
56:27
cheapest way. I'm going to try and do it myself. I get that.
56:30
I can respect that, but I see people come back and say it
56:35
didn't work. Most of the people where it works. Again, this transcends
56:39
Orthodonics. They went all in, they went through all the pain. First.
56:45
Bill Gates talks about the ten dark years of starting the business where he
56:49
was like sleeping there. I'm not saying do that, but it's gonna be
56:52
tough. Do it right, go through the pain one time of starting and
56:58
do it the right way. It Just do the work. There are just
57:01
times you just have to do the work and trust in yourself you'll do just
57:05
fine. Well, Luke, again, thank you so much for being on
57:07
Haydocks with us. This is a great episode. And I know we're gonna
57:12
have a lot of listeners. That took a lot of a lot of notes,
57:15
and I'm sure we'll be giving you a call and at least asking their
57:17
marketing questions, so you know, and I'm sure a lot will be jumping
57:22
on and saying all right, I'm ready, let's do this. So thank
57:25
you again, thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. Really
57:29
appreciate it. Yep, all right, until next time. Are you ready
57:34
to start a practice of your own, need a new fresh set of eyes
57:37
or some advice on your existing practice. If so, reach out to me
57:42
Jill Allen at www dot practice results dot com. If you like what we're
57:47
doing here on Haydocks and want to hear more of this awesome content, be
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sure and give us a five star rating on your preferred listening platform and subscribe
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