Latest / Becoming Anchored / Becoming Anchored S3E3: Understanding Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport: A Dietitian's Perspective with Jamison Worley

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Becoming Anchored S3E3: Understanding Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport: A Dietitian's Perspective with Jamison Worley · Becoming Anchored

• 0:02
  Lauren Jackson: Hey, everyone.
• 0:03
  Welcome back to the Becoming Anchor podcast.
• 0:06
  We're so glad you're here with us today.
• 0:07
  We're super excited about this episode.
• 0:09
  We've got a very lovely, wonderful guest.
• 0:11
  I'll introduce her in just a minute.
• 0:13
  I am Lauren Jackson, one of the hosts here.
• 0:15
  This is Laura Dineen, our other wonderful host.
• 0:17
  We are part of a group called private practice in the Brentwood, Tennessee area.
• 0:22
  We specialize in treating eating disorders, body image concerns,
• 0:26
  anxiety, grief, OCD, life transition, trauma, all of that.
• 0:29
  Through the lifespan, we adore what we do and we've really loved
• 0:33
  jumping on this platform and connecting with you guys in this way.
• 0:37
  so quick disclaimer before we do jump into the content, this
• 0:41
  podcast in this episode is.
• 0:43
  not meant to be your therapy.
• 0:45
  It is for informational purposes only.
• 0:47
  So if you're finding that as you're listening and you're engaging with
• 0:50
  us that you could benefit from therapy, if you're local, reach out.
• 0:54
  We'd love to connect with you and get you connected with a therapist.
• 0:57
  If you're not local, find somebody near you who is licensed.
• 1:01
  So today I'll do a quick intro.
• 1:03
  We have Jameson Worley here.
• 1:05
  She's a phenomenal dietician in the Franklin area, Franklin, Tennessee area.
• 1:10
  She Well, I'll let her tell you what she works with, but we work with her a lot.
• 1:13
  We love her dearly.
• 1:14
  Yeah we're excited to jump in and talk to you Jameson, about our topic for the day.
• 1:20
  Laura Deneen: Thanks, Lauren.
• 1:22
  Yeah.
• 1:22
  So if you're new to the Becoming Anchored show welcome.
• 1:25
  This has been such a fun and life giving opportunity for us.
• 1:30
  And it's really just been a wonderful way to connect with some of our
• 1:34
  folks and some of the people that we love in the Nashville community.
• 1:38
  And so Lauren actually had the idea of starting this podcast I jumped on board.
• 1:43
  And so it's been just a time to talk about our humanity and all
• 1:48
  the things that been hardships and our hardships for both of us.
• 1:52
  And then we also have the gift of sitting with clients on a daily basis.
• 1:55
  And so we love what we do.
• 1:57
  It really is such a gift and such sacred work.
• 1:59
  And so we are here to talk about our shared humanity with you all with our
• 2:04
  listeners and to hopefully provide some nuggets of wisdom to you all as well.
• 2:19
  So welcome and thanks for being here.
• 2:21
  Like Lauren said, we have Jameson on the show today.
• 2:23
  We are going to be talking about relative energy deficiency.
• 2:28
  Is that, am I getting that right?
• 2:30
  The acronym?
• 2:31
  Okay,
• 2:32
  Jamison: it's, well, it's right.
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  So relative energy deficiency in
• 2:35
  Laura Deneen: in sports.
• 2:35
  Okay, so Jamison works quite frequently with clients presenting with body
• 2:41
  image concerns and a dietitian by trade So I will let her share a little bit
• 2:46
  more about her practice at the end of the show but she does work quite
• 2:49
  frequently with athletes and really looking at their meal plans their intake
• 2:55
  and how she can better support them.
• 2:56
  And this just felt like a really niche topic that Jameson actually
• 3:01
  has so much wisdom around.
• 3:02
  And so without further ado, Jameson, welcome.
• 3:07
  Jamison: Thank you.
• 3:07
  I'm so excited to be here.
• 3:08
  You guys, we are practice freaking loves anchor
• 3:12
  Lauren Jackson: No.
• 3:13
  Laura Deneen: so kind.
• 3:13
  So kind.
• 3:14
  It's a very mutual feeling.
• 3:16
  So much love today.
• 3:17
  I love it.
• 3:18
  yeah, but okay.
• 3:18
  Wait, can you.
• 3:20
  Can you just share a little bit more just, presenting this topic, right?
• 3:23
  What Reds is, the work that you do with clients, and yeah, I'll just
• 3:29
  go ahead and let you jump right in.
• 3:31
  Jamison: Yeah, I think like a little bit of background could help too.
• 3:34
  So basically I grew up as an athlete.
• 3:37
  I was a soccer player like my entire life.
• 3:39
  And then as I like went through schooling and found like my love for nutrition, what
• 3:44
  got me into that was working with a sports dietitian in my undergrad college at UT.
• 3:49
  And just found a whole love for that as well.
• 3:51
  Like just working with athletes, helping like fuel their bodies, all the things.
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  went up to grad school in Boston.
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  And one of my rotations, like as a dietitian, you have to go
• 3:59
  through a dietetic internship.
• 4:01
  And so one of my rotations there was at Harvard university.
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  And so with their athletes or their sports dietitian PRN.
• 4:09
  And so I was used to working at UT, working with the big.
• 4:14
  Sports, right?
• 4:15
  So like football, basketball, we would take the football players to
• 4:18
  the grocery store and teach like the basketball team how to make a smoothie.
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  Like it was all this like education.
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  It was
• 4:22
  Laura Deneen: I love it so much.
• 4:24
  Yeah.
• 4:25
  Jamison: so fun.
• 4:26
  And then I got up to Harvard and I was thinking the same thing.
• 4:28
  I was like, this is awesome.
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  Right.
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  And I'm from here.
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  So very naive to all the Northern sports
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  Like Northeast sports.
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  So they have everything's weight based up there and it's very individualized
• 4:37
  sports.
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  So I remember my first day on the job, I was like, what team are we going
• 4:40
  to teach how to do smoothies today?
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  And I remember the day I started working with, her name's Meg.
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  I still have to say I love her.
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  She was like no, we have one on one counseling.
• 4:48
  We're working with eating disorders.
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  And I was like, what?
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  Like I was so like shocked, but anyways, it was such an
• 4:54
  amazing learning experience.
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  And that's what got me into this whole field.
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  Like my love for sports mixed with the eating disorder piece.
• 5:00
  A whole world that I think I knew as an athlete, but didn't truly understand.
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  I was almost like naive to it.
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  And then moving into that space, just being like, Whoa,
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  there's so much more to this.
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  Coming back here, I ended up working with eating disorders,
• 5:13
  then moved on to the sports world.
• 5:15
  Now I have my own practice.
• 5:16
  And it's so my favorite by one of my favorite clientele to work with, no
• 5:20
  matter what, who the athlete is, whether, basically the definition of an athlete
• 5:24
  is someone who moves their body to train.
• 5:25
  Right.
• 5:26
  So when you look at it that way, it can be, the individual going to
• 5:30
  a workout class a couple of days a week, or it can be the lead athlete
• 5:33
  or any of these Olympic athletes.
• 5:34
  And so I think that's really important to know too.
• 5:38
  Yeah.
• 5:39
  That's I mean, again, so that's my background piece, but that I've learned
• 5:43
  to develop or work with what's called red.
• 5:46
  So like relative energy deficiency in sport.
• 5:49
  And this actually started off, do y'all remember the female athlete triad?
• 5:52
  Lauren Jackson: was gonna ask you about that.
• 5:54
  'cause I did my undergrad in dietetics.
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  I didn't go on to do internship, I didn't become registered.
• 6:01
  But that was something that we learned about in undergrad and
• 6:04
  I was gonna ask you about that.
• 6:05
  So I'm glad you brought it up.
• 6:07
  Jamison: Yes.
• 6:07
  So same
• 6:08
  Lauren Jackson: Okay.
• 6:08
  Jamison: Basically it was, it started as a female athlete
• 6:11
  Lauren Jackson: Okay.
• 6:11
  Jamison: looked at is they looked at the underfueling piece and then
• 6:15
  they also looked at the triad.
• 6:16
  So it would be the underfueling, the menstrual cycle and then bone health.
• 6:20
  Then obviously in females.
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  And so what happened was in 2014 the international Olympic
• 6:28
  committee was like, hold on.
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  There's like also meals and sports, right?
• 6:31
  There's more than just like periods and under feeling and bone health.
• 6:35
  There's like whole spectrum.
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  And so that's when they developed reds or move the female
• 6:40
  athlete triad over to reds,
• 6:42
  Lauren Jackson: Oh,
• 6:43
  Jamison: for relative energy efficiency and
• 6:45
  Lauren Jackson: interesting.
• 6:46
  Jamison: so that's how it all started from there.
• 6:47
  If that makes sense.
• 6:49
  And then, I mean, we'll get more into this, but basically They then created
• 6:53
  a screening tool for Reds in 2015.
• 6:56
  There was an update to Reds in 2018.
• 6:59
  Then there wasn't there.
• 7:02
  The latest update was actually this past fall in 2023 which has an updated
• 7:07
  screening And all these things that we can use as providers for just
• 7:11
  looking at athletes, because one of the things I find with athletes is
• 7:15
  there can be two different spectrums.
• 7:17
  It can be under fueling intentionally, right?
• 7:20
  So that's like our eating disordered eating.
• 7:21
  And then there can be feeling And I think that was something I had to
• 7:26
  learn because I was always coming at it from an eating disorder lens.
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  So anyone that came in, I was like, well, this is eating
• 7:32
  disorder, all these kind of things.
• 7:32
  But you do just have athletes that truly
• 7:35
  Lauren Jackson: Hm.
• 7:36
  Mm
• 7:37
  Jamison: How to feel the body for sport, especially a lot of our assets.
• 7:40
  Right.
• 7:41
  I have a client right now who is an amazing athlete, a 15 year old and just,
• 7:46
  essentially decided to try a new sport.
• 7:48
  Was really good at it and developed a mono in the middle of the season.
• 7:53
  Know that, so it's like this whole thing that he was under fueling, had no idea.
• 7:59
  Has low energy, granted the mono is a piece, and by the time he got diagnosed
• 8:03
  with mono, I mean, there's a whole thing
• 8:04
  Lauren Jackson: Yeah.
• 8:05
  Jamison: so instead of looking at it as an eating disorder,
• 8:07
  it's now just the education of hey, it was very unintentional.
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  How can we just teach you how to feel your body from that piece?
• 8:16
  Laura Deneen: What types of questions you're asking and I'm sure that
• 8:19
  you are doing assessment, right?
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  For a possible eating disorder.
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  Maybe you've gotten a referral from a therapist who's working with the client
• 8:27
  with an eating disorder, but I'm just curious what you asked to determine
• 8:31
  intention behind either behind the under fueling that is happening in your clients.
• 8:38
  Jamison: Yeah, great question.
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  I mean, it can come from so many different ways.
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  A lot of it comes from referrals, right?
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  So a lot of times, like I'll get,
• 8:44
  whether they're a psych provider or a doctor, a pediatrician,
• 8:48
  primary care doctor or even a therapist is referring over to me.
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  And so it's already an underlying issue that they're working on
• 8:55
  with somebody from that realm.
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  The other thing is just the screening tool in general.
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  So lot of things that we go through.
• 9:02
  Is, menses cycles, like I was mentioning earlier.
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  So like primary menses is essentially with a female.
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  If they prolong or they're not starting their period up until 15
• 9:13
  years old, that's like a big red flag.
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  Right?
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  So that's like the, especially while they were in sport, but they still,
• 9:19
  they're still growing in other ways.
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  And then you have secondary, right?
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  Which means that essentially they started their period, but
• 9:25
  then they've missed some of it.
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  So that can be a piece that we always look at, from, for males, it's testosterone.
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  So looking at that piece, like always get lab work and everything
• 9:35
  done for that bone stress injuries.
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  So that's a big thing that we're screening for.
• 9:39
  So looking at just their bone health overall, immune system,
• 9:44
  I mean, there's a whole, there's a whole case or piece to it.
• 9:46
  And I'm happy to, if any people listening or if any of y'all's listeners want
• 9:51
  any information on this, I'm happy to provide how the triad, right,
• 9:54
  just those three little things turned into this whole spectrum of things.
• 9:58
  But the things that you scream for REDS now, instead of just having, like
• 10:01
  I said earlier the menses, the bone health, and the under fueling, it's now
• 10:06
  the immune system, the gut, the heart.
• 10:10
  psychological, so like mental illness growth and development.
• 10:14
  So with our adolescents,
• 10:15
  Are going metabolic, if there's anything metabolic going on, the endocrine system,
• 10:20
  so hormones, and then also like the bone health and the menstrual cycles.
• 10:24
  There's a big screening spectrum now that you're looking at.
• 10:28
  But going back to the intentional or unintentional, the certain things that
• 10:32
  we always ask is, what sparked it.
• 10:34
  Right.
• 10:34
  And there's always that underlying behavior.
• 10:36
  I know you guys know all of this too.
• 10:39
  Past history, family history, beating disorders.
• 10:41
  There's just a lot
• 10:42
  Laura Deneen: It's very complex.
• 10:45
  Jamison: Totally.
• 10:45
  Totally.
• 10:46
  And I know you, you said that y'all had Sarah Beth on there to
• 10:48
  talk about the identity piece.
• 10:50
  I think that's also a big I'm sure there's a lot of information in
• 10:52
  there, too, of just the identity and of an athlete in general.
• 10:57
  There's certain, type A there's just a lot there, too, that can also
• 11:00
  Lauren Jackson: Yeah.
• 11:00
  Jamison: screen for,
• 11:02
  Lauren Jackson: How often would you say that you see that a client truly presents
• 11:10
  with just reds and no eating disorder, no disordered eating, no body image concerns.
• 11:17
  Jamison: that's a really good question.
• 11:18
  I'm thinking of my current caseload and I actually have a good amount.
• 11:23
  And if I can put it into numbers, I probably have got
• 11:26
  clients right now with reds.
• 11:28
  And I would say it's pretty half and
• 11:30
  Lauren Jackson: Yeah.
• 11:30
  Jamison: disorder, like intentional or unintentional.
• 11:33
  It's just providing education.
• 11:35
  They're willing to
• 11:36
  Lauren Jackson: Mm
• 11:37
  Jamison: and they, there's no quote unquote issue per se implementation,
• 11:42
  then you know that They're wanting, to essentially be better for their sport.
• 11:46
  Lauren Jackson: Mm
• 11:47
  Jamison: piece, like what, as you educate or you get into it and there's
• 11:51
  no implementation or it's hard to
• 11:53
  implement, that's either a while send off a referral if they don't already have a
• 11:56
  therapist and build off the team, it's pretty half and half right now, which is.
• 12:00
  Lauren Jackson: Yeah.
• 12:01
  Jamison: Crazy.
• 12:02
  Laura Deneen: I'm curious how it goes when you
• 12:04
  Is there a sense of relief, of oh wow, somebody sees me in this in my pain and
• 12:11
  in all of these things that I've been struggling with, or is there a sense of
• 12:15
  shock or shame, like how are your clients receiving this REDS diagnosis from you?
• 12:21
  Jamison: Yeah.
• 12:22
  No, this is a great question.
• 12:23
  All the above it depends on the athlete.
• 12:25
  Like I've got a client right now who a wrestler, for instance, who is
• 12:29
  truly just the under feeling piece.
• 12:31
  I've got another wrestler that's definitely the eating disorder piece.
• 12:33
  So it's, the presentation is more of One of the things that's helpful that
• 12:36
  I've found with my clients is screening.
• 12:38
  So being able to show them the screening tools that I have and walk them
• 12:42
  through it, it's like when you have an adolescent, who's going through eating
• 12:45
  disorder, recovery, or they're having to restore weight or anything like that.
• 12:48
  Like being able to show them their growth charts.
• 12:50
  But I think the athletes and their partners help sometimes to be like, hey,
• 12:52
  this is why we're doing these things.
• 12:54
  And this is why we're concerned.
• 12:55
  Or this is why we have got red flags coming up so they can you
• 12:59
  know, essentially see the evidence.
• 13:00
  And it's not like they're just meeting this person to be like, you have
• 13:03
  to eat more or fuel around this.
• 13:05
  Like they can actually understand it.
• 13:07
  And I feel like this population is really good with that.
• 13:10
  Because if with a true athlete, in a sense, they're wanting,
• 13:12
  that's that identity piece.
• 13:14
  And so it's hard to break that identity and they know if they need to fuel.
• 13:18
  do it for their sport to be better or whatever their goal is.
• 13:22
  I think that's a big piece
• 13:23
  Laura Deneen: Yeah, it's like, Yeah, it's motivation in a way, right,
• 13:27
  of oh, wow, I want to be able to perform the best of my abilities
• 13:31
  and yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 13:33
  It's interesting in the therapeutic space, of course, we are not
• 13:36
  like providing meal plans, right?
• 13:38
  We're referring to providers like you and being like, Hey, Dr.
• 13:40
  Jameson and we'll do all the emotional work and boundaries and
• 13:43
  all the other things that come up after you give a meal plan.
• 13:46
  But I'm curious, another question that I had is when you do present to someone with
• 13:53
  REDS, what their body actually needs, what their response is, because oftentimes what
• 13:59
  we see in the practice, and I hesitate to do like a generalized statement, but
• 14:02
  oftentimes what comes up is oh my gosh, my dietician told me that I need this
• 14:06
  much food, and can you believe it, Laura?
• 14:08
  And then we will talk through, all of their feelings and thoughts and emotions.
• 14:13
  around that, but I would imagine that is probably something that you see
• 14:17
  quite frequently in your practice, too, of like utter shock that our
• 14:21
  bodies could need as much food as you're telling them they need.
• 14:25
  Jamison: Yes, absolutely.
• 14:27
  Yes.
• 14:27
  The shock is like the level goes through the roof.
• 14:29
  And I think that's the biggest thing, right?
• 14:31
  And you'll get, yes, I think again, it depends on what sport and all
• 14:35
  the things and what, the type of athlete that you've got in your door.
• 14:38
  But that's a big thing that our practice focuses on.
• 14:41
  And that's like my.
• 14:42
  My big thing that I preach on is education is empowerment.
• 14:45
  Able to bring a client into your office and just educate them.
• 14:48
  And so they can understand, like I always start there.
• 14:51
  So I'm like, Hey, let's just talk about what, like what you're doing now.
• 14:56
  And let's talk about why you're here.
• 14:57
  So a lot of times they'll be there because their energy is low or they've missed
• 15:01
  their period or they're not competing at their best ability or they're like
• 15:05
  losing out on races or whatever it is.
• 15:07
  Right.
• 15:07
  So we start with goals.
• 15:08
  What's your goal, right?
• 15:09
  And whether it's like longterm, short term, that kind of thing.
• 15:12
  And so they're able to go through their goals, we're able to get some data and
• 15:16
  educate them on how you can achieve your goals for a nutrition standpoint, they're
• 15:20
  able to hear it a little bit better.
• 15:22
  And also it's still really hard.
• 15:23
  I mean, I've had some athletes that I've put on not to talk calories necessarily,
• 15:27
  but on 10, 000 calorie diets, because this is just what their body needs in
• 15:32
  terms of just like their training regimen.
• 15:34
  Lauren Jackson: Wow.
• 15:34
  Jamison: And yeah, of course that's a shock, right?
• 15:36
  They're like, what?
• 15:37
  And but being able to put it out in a way that's feasible for them, I think
• 15:40
  just the understanding piece is key for this population to be like, Hey, you're
• 15:44
  not, you're burning more than you think, or, again, depending on the client
• 15:49
  Lauren Jackson: Yeah.
• 15:49
  Jamison: what their body needs.
• 15:50
  So it's all over the board, but yes, it's always comes as a shock always.
• 15:54
  Lauren Jackson: Yeah.
• 15:56
  Would you say, and I feel like I maybe know the answer to this, but I'm just
• 16:06
  develops REDS, and you diagnose with that, would you say that they have
• 16:11
  more of a predisposition to go on to develop an eating disorder, or
• 16:14
  would you say that maybe there's not necessarily like a correlation there?
• 16:19
  Jamison: It's actually a really good question that I need to go back to
• 16:22
  the actual Researcher update that just came back this past fall to
• 16:26
  give you like specific information.
• 16:28
  I do know there was a Statistic in there that said up to 60 percent
• 16:32
  of all athletes have reds, right?
• 16:35
  So
• 16:35
  Lauren Jackson: Wow.
• 16:35
  Jamison: coming at it like the eating disorder piece, but that's
• 16:38
  that could come at it from both ways
• 16:40
  Lauren Jackson: Wow.
• 16:41
  Jamison: But the development of eating disorder afterwards, I think if they're
• 16:43
  in the care with someone who's coming in from an unintentional level, right?
• 16:48
  So someone comes in just to say Hey, I'm not performing this.
• 16:51
  No eating disorder present and all that kind of thing, and
• 16:54
  they start to fuel their body.
• 16:55
  I think keeping with them and still having that support, so whether that's
• 17:00
  adding a team, even if it's not an eating disorder, it's like adding a therapist.
• 17:03
  I mean, psych is so
• 17:05
  Mental health is so important with athletes.
• 17:07
  And having the dietician to continue to encourage them and educate them, right,
• 17:11
  as they continue their training is really important to help prevent that down
• 17:14
  Lauren Jackson: Totally.
• 17:15
  Jamison: And you are just like a couple of sessions, you're like,
• 17:17
  Hey, this is what your body needs.
• 17:19
  And then they go out.
• 17:20
  One of the things I always talk about is like macro diet culture,
• 17:23
  macro culture and micro culture.
• 17:25
  I actually learned this from my supervisor, which I love using with
• 17:28
  clients of macro culture is like our overall diet culture, right?
• 17:32
  So whatever that looks like.
• 17:33
  And then micro culture is that.
• 17:37
  So you've got an athlete, that's that macro diet culture of just what an athlete
• 17:41
  needs to look like, fuel all that kind of
• 17:43
  The microculture is within your sport.
• 17:45
  So that's if you're a crew, doing crew, wrestling, running, whatever
• 17:48
  that is and just having, teaching clients or educating clients how
• 17:53
  to pull out red flags within macro culture and microculture to hopefully
• 17:56
  prevent that as well as they move their
• 17:59
  Lauren Jackson: Yeah.
• 17:59
  Jamison: because they could get.
• 18:00
  Have an amazing coach, in middle school or something, and then go to
• 18:03
  high school and have coach who's, very into diet culture or whatever it is.
• 18:07
  And so for you to just educate on.
• 18:10
  these are some red flags as you get there.
• 18:12
  So that they at least know.
• 18:14
  Laura Deneen: Yeah, that's interesting that you bring that up.
• 18:16
  This is part of my own story.
• 18:17
  I had a very harmful coaching experience when I was on the cross country team
• 18:22
  and a coach that was not a dietitian and, should not have been telling the
• 18:26
  team what to eat or what not to eat.
• 18:28
  And unfortunately a lot of our clients have been harmed
• 18:31
  Lauren Jackson: Mm.
• 18:32
  Laura Deneen: Or role models, and they're at a tender age when this happens.
• 18:36
  And.
• 18:37
  They don't necessarily have the ego strength to say you
• 18:40
  know what, I disagree with you.
• 18:41
  Why, right?
• 18:42
  Like we can't necessarily expect that of a 15 or 16 year old.
• 18:46
  Lauren Jackson: Right.
• 18:46
  Laura Deneen: are quite impressionable, I think, at those ages.
• 18:49
  And we also or at least maybe believe that we're part of us is like invincible.
• 18:54
  And yeah, I think it's so amazing that you are providing such.
• 18:59
  Accurate intentional, healthy psychoeducation to these athletes to
• 19:06
  hopefully provide them with the foundation to be able to fuel their bodies like, from
• 19:10
  the present moment to future encounters.
• 19:12
  But yeah, that was part of my story as well, where I did have a
• 19:15
  harmful experience with a coach and that was really formative for me.
• 19:19
  And I've since done, the trauma work around that, but I do remember
• 19:23
  that distinctly just as you share.
• 19:26
  Jamison: Yeah.
• 19:26
  No, thanks for sharing.
• 19:27
  Cause it's real.
• 19:28
  It's so real out there.
• 19:29
  It's so real.
• 19:30
  And that's like a lot of times I'll, even with some of my clients, I'll pull their
• 19:34
  coach into the treatment team, depending
• 19:37
  Just because it's Hey, if you've got questions like run through me, or if
• 19:41
  you're telling them this, not to tell you what to tell your peers or even
• 19:45
  like you, who you're coaching, but At least to have that piece to know that
• 19:48
  like this client's working with someone who's a little more informative or has
• 19:52
  more informative care around whatever sport that says, because it's, I mean,
• 19:56
  it is, it's, there's the world of social media, the world of coaches, all of it.
• 20:01
  There's just so much misinformation out there.
• 20:04
  And I think this is a big population that gets targeted between like
• 20:06
  supplements and, certain ways and I mean, all the things.
• 20:10
  Laura Deneen: Yeah,
• 20:12
  Jamison: So it's no joke.
• 20:14
  Laura Deneen: yeah.
• 20:14
  And it can be quite traumatic, I think, for our clients, because there is this
• 20:20
  posture of well, my coach knows best.
• 20:21
  There's a trust.
• 20:22
  There's a relationship there.
• 20:24
  And of course, when that attachment is there with someone like a coach,
• 20:29
  and then they're hearing from you that, oh, wait, this person has yeah.
• 20:34
  misinformation with me or has caused or has been a part of the reason that
• 20:39
  I've gone on to develop reds like that.
• 20:40
  That's a lot to digest and to work through both with a dietitian
• 20:45
  and with a therapist, hopefully.
• 20:47
  And so I have a lot of compassion for our clients that have had
• 20:50
  these harmful experiences.
• 20:52
  And I think sometimes coaches, I don't know what your thoughts are on this, but.
• 20:55
  Jameson and Lauren just, I know both having, been in the
• 20:58
  sports worlds, but I don't think necessarily coaches intend to harm.
• 21:02
  They maybe want their athletes to perform the best of their abilities
• 21:06
  and that still doesn't make it okay.
• 21:08
  So
• 21:09
  Lauren Jackson: yeah.
• 21:10
  Laura, I have a
• 21:11
  Jamison: Go
• 21:11
  Lauren Jackson: Sorry, Jake.
• 21:12
  No, I was just gonna share another story.
• 21:15
  I grew up doing all kinds of sports, but then landed on ballet as my sport.
• 21:20
  Sorry.
• 21:21
  And, ballet is very what's the word, like image focused, like you, about ballerinas
• 21:27
  have a certain look, if you will.
• 21:29
  And yeah, I remember, and this wasn't as impressionable on me because I was already
• 21:34
  like in the depths of my eating disorder.
• 21:36
  And the thing that one of my ballet teachers said was it.
• 21:39
  Quite as like impactful because I already had like my things that I was
• 21:43
  doing but yeah He made this one comment and I won't say what it is because it
• 21:47
  I mean, it's not helpful And it's not necessarily important, but it was just
• 21:50
  a really now that I look back on it now It's a very strange like it was
• 21:55
  just very strange food advice that he was giving and That I remember had
• 22:03
  definitely had an impact on some of the people that I was like in class with.
• 22:07
  And I look back on that and I feel angry.
• 22:10
  Like I feel anger about that.
• 22:11
  And like you said, Laura, I don't think he was trying to do harm.
• 22:14
  But it did cause harm.
• 22:16
  And I think that's, something that probably our clients in some ways
• 22:20
  wrestle with is, yeah, some of that trust piece and what to do with that, but.
• 22:25
  Yeah.
• 22:26
  Laura Deneen: right that there was some sort of like boundary
• 22:29
  violation or?
• 22:31
  Lauren Jackson: Yeah.
• 22:32
  Laura Deneen: Day adult self is like trying to protect your younger self
• 22:35
  that was maybe more vulnerable to receiving that kind of advice and
• 22:41
  air quotations if you're watching.
• 22:43
  So yeah, and I think there's a humility for coaches and I'm
• 22:47
  sure you've experienced this too, Jameson, of like being corrected
• 22:50
  or called out or challenged and that takes a lot of humility.
• 22:54
  For them to to you on the phone or come with the athlete to your
• 22:58
  office and that they may have caused harm or apologize or what have you.
• 23:04
  And it does take humility to admit that we were wrong or we didn't, we didn't
• 23:09
  know any better, et cetera, et cetera.
• 23:10
  So I can see that happening in your office too.
• 23:14
  Jamison: I mean it's tough right and I think you guys are so spot
• 23:17
  on I'm just like it's sometimes it's just not intentional like
• 23:19
  It's not meant to happen, right?
• 23:21
  Like it's just there's so much misinformation out There's so much
• 23:24
  and in the world of like marketing and supplements and whatever, you name it
• 23:27
  so It's so easy to hold on to these things like the tick tocks and all that
• 23:31
  kind of stuff like if you're watching or being targeted by certain things day
• 23:35
  after day, like you're gonna fall for some of these things and I think coaches
• 23:38
  can play that role, but it's just to me going back to having them on the care
• 23:43
  team, like they're the most important.
• 23:45
  Person to me on the care team just because they're with the athlete
• 23:48
  more than any of us are, right?
• 23:50
  Like they're with them all the time.
• 23:51
  They're coaching them.
• 23:52
  They're using language and again, whether it's intentional or unintentional
• 23:56
  But an athlete wants to be the best of their sport and that's what a
• 24:00
  coach is helping them do, right?
• 24:02
  and so again, whatever the Language can be I mean some people are just
• 24:07
  more predispositions To hearing some language and taking it to
• 24:11
  heart when others aren't right.
• 24:13
  And so I think that's just the big thing is being able to no matter what
• 24:17
  I mean, we, what we all do in our office, we advocate for our client.
• 24:20
  And so how can we look at that from an athlete perspective?
• 24:23
  And then also just from a fueling perspective and just
• 24:25
  giving them all knowledge.
• 24:26
  It's a lot, it's a whole, the whole spectrum.
• 24:28
  I'm
• 24:29
  Laura Deneen: Yeah.
• 24:29
  Well, you are certainly a wealth of knowledge and so grateful
• 24:33
  just for your wisdom today.
• 24:35
  Thank you for your time.
• 24:37
  And I know that Jameson has little ones at home and you own a business
• 24:40
  and so you're not busy at all.
• 24:42
  But we really are grateful for your time today.
• 24:46
  So we always close with an affirmation and homework.
• 24:49
  Jameson, would you like to provide one or both?
• 24:52
  Both of those things, if you would like to.
• 24:58
  Jamison: to think, give me an example.
• 24:59
  Give me something that you guys.
• 25:02
  Laura Deneen: Yeah, and so homework might be something that's coming to mind
• 25:05
  for me, for our listeners, is really, I know we use that word misinformation
• 25:09
  and it really just stuck out to me.
• 25:12
  Well, two fold, right?
• 25:13
  I mean, the things that have stuck out to me today, I mean, you know a
• 25:17
  lot more about the nutrition piece and so obviously you're not going
• 25:19
  to recommend nutrition advice.
• 25:22
  Because I know that each person is so individualized and their experience
• 25:25
  is so unique, but I think looking at perhaps sources of information,
• 25:31
  have you experienced misinformation as you've in the world of nutrition
• 25:37
  and trying to fuel your bodies.
• 25:39
  I think that stands out to me.
• 25:40
  I'm just really encouraging our listeners to get curious about possible
• 25:44
  misinformation that they've had or possible harmful experiences with
• 25:50
  coaches and really looking at what they need as a result of having lived
• 25:54
  through those experiences so that, that feels like appropriate homework.
• 25:58
  I don't know if you have anything that you would add.
• 26:01
  Jamison: No, I think that's great.
• 26:02
  I think the world of misinformation, yes, is
• 26:04
  Lauren Jackson: Mm.
• 26:04
  Jamison: large.
• 26:05
  So being able to understand like red flags I always say this just from a nutrition
• 26:09
  specific perspective of if you're ever looking anything and something's either
• 26:14
  the worst case scenario or something's the
• 26:16
  Meaning like a food or a sport or anything
• 26:20
  that it's automatically a red flag.
• 26:22
  Nothing that's too bad.
• 26:23
  There's nothing that's too
• 26:24
  So I think that's always something I tell my clients
• 26:26
  Lauren Jackson: That's good.
• 26:27
  Jamison: Understanding it, writing it down, ask questions, whether you have
• 26:29
  a therapist, a doctor, a dietician instead of, falling into these things.
• 26:34
  Because it's easy to be blind.
• 26:37
  Laura Deneen: And then an affirmation to Lauren, do you have
• 26:39
  one or I'm happy to provide one as
• 26:40
  Lauren Jackson: Yeah!
• 26:41
  Yeah!
• 26:41
  I'm thinking about just you deserve to feel your body completely,
• 26:46
  well, totally, fully what it needs.
• 26:49
  And you're allowed to question.
• 26:52
  And listen to your body, right?
• 26:54
  I think that sounds like just, yeah.
• 26:58
  Laura Deneen: When we talk a lot in the practice about building
• 27:00
  trust in our bodies, right?
• 27:02
  And so that's what I hear as you say that, right?
• 27:04
  This is an encouragement and a challenge to build back trust with your body.
• 27:09
  Jameson, how can our listeners find you?
• 27:13
  Jamison: Yeah, so we, you can find us, we're on social media, so Whirly
• 27:18
  Nutrition Group Facebook, Instagram.
• 27:21
  We have a website, so www.
• 27:24
  com.
• 27:25
  We've got a newsletter, we call it the Tuesday Toast.
• 27:27
  It goes out every Tuesday, so you can subscribe to that via our social
• 27:32
  media, or even on our website.
• 27:34
  And again, our big thing is education is empowerment.
• 27:37
  Our Tuesday Toast.
• 27:39
  Tuesday or specific to just education.
• 27:41
  We talk a lot about reds but it's just something to be
• 27:44
  able to educate the popular,
• 27:46
  everybody
• 27:47
  of what's going on in the nutrition
• 27:48
  Lauren Jackson: What
• 27:48
  Laura Deneen: was actually just talking to Jameson before we started
• 27:51
  recording about how much I love your Tuesday Toast newsletter.
• 27:54
  I always know Tuesday morning it's going to be in my inbox and I love it.
• 27:57
  So yeah, keep up the great work there.
• 27:59
  Thank you.
• 28:00
  again for being on the show and for your time today.
• 28:03
  We're just so grateful.
• 28:04
  Lauren and I just adore you.
• 28:06
  So thanks again for being here on the Becoming Anchored podcast.
• 28:10
  Y'all take care.
• 28:12
  Jamison: Thank you guys.