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Do You Value Your Rest as Much as Your Output? · Reframe

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Reframe, where honest conversations create new possibilities.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: We're Sarah and Danny, and each week we sit down together to explore life, growth, and everything in between.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, Sarah, and all of our loving listeners.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Hey Danny, how are you?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good, thank you.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's great to be back here recording.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: We have had a little a couple of weeks off, haven't we?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it's great to be back and super excited for what we're about to talk about.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um plenty of ideas, and I think a lot of people will relate to what we said we'll just talk about.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And with that being energy cycles, productivity, rest, making it all work with structure or no structure, and discipline and no discipline.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: So where do we start?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, shall I start?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Shall I talk?
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was I was telling you about well, you we were talking about how being in the zone with work and then you can kind of get your the kind of the bit between your teeth and just really feel like you can keep on going and keep on going with things.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and in the human design terms, you know, if you've got sacral energy, you're a generator or a manifesting generator, that's probably something that you feel kind of you you know for yourself, and you know that kind of sense of you know just just getting on with things and and being productive.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I was telling you that I had um spent a this week had forfeited going to a class that I normally do, a dance class that I really love doing, and it's the like I really do love the class, but I was so in the zone with my work that I just didn't want to be interrupted, which again is very manifestery, manifesty generator.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that's that like wanting to keep going, wanting to keep like um focused on where you where you're heading and not allowing yourself to be distracted or get distracted or drawn off.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a real kind of moment in me where I was like, oh, I should go to my dance class, that's a really good thing for me to do.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's all about me nourishing all parts of myself and and being really, you know, like enjoying life.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: I love dancing, it's so important to me.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Versus this, I'm gonna get my work done, I'm gonna get my work done.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I really did sit with it for a moment and go, what is the what's going on here for me?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because there was a real sense of I should go to the dance class over I should get on with my work.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I what energetically I wanted to get on with my work, but there was something that was saying to me, but you should go to your dance class because it's good for you.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So even those things can be like shuds for us in life and pull us away from what we like, what what our energy is showing us.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really glad I didn't.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I went, I actually stayed and did the work.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I worked till quite late, but I felt so satisfied.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I really broke the back of something that really wanted to do.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And on this occasion, I really believe that it was the right thing for me to do because I followed my energy um along this.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's the that was the energy, that's where it was leading me.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what we came to talk about then is that if you're going to work like that, where you are going to put in like long days or big hours on things and really stick at things and work like not hustle, because that's not what we're talking about here, but allowing yourself to really be in the zone and work hard, maybe on something, put a lot into it.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be able to say to yourself, it's okay that to recognize other parts of when you need to rest, when you need to give to yourself other things.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where our discussion was coming from, wasn't it?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really it is really interesting topic, and to hear you say, you know, that dancing nourishes you, and we know I think we're both someone who cares about taking that break and taking that pause and self-care and looking after ourselves.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: We literally were talking about that as well.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: But also, maybe in that moment that was nourishing to work and to complete that task that you've been wanting to, and I think it's a really interesting thing that I've definitely spoke about as well as to what you get from your business.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as business owners, we want to be fulfilled and we want to be satisfied, and we go all in, and then we need the self-care and to nourish ourselves in different ways, and it's just it's so interesting and so complex, I want to say, as well, as to what we could sometimes get from all business, but yeah, I definitely hear what you've said, and for me, when uh we were sharing, I was slightly different.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: I had the energy to work on business, which felt really good to notice that in myself, but I chose the opposite and to not work for me because I know that sometimes, especially if it's a late night, um late night lock-in, that can impact me energetically the next day.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so I guess as we usually come to, it's about listening to yourself, isn't it?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes it is difficult to navigate those voices of is it self-care?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is it lock-in to work?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: What is going to be good for me?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And something that I said was I've never found the perfect routine or structure or cycle, and something that I've had to work on for many years is the idea of it's okay to work hard in the business, it's some periods, but then what comes after is that restoration for myself, and I'm definitely so much better than I was, um, but still working on it.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the word that really stuck out for me that you said early on there was the complexity of it all, and it is complex, it's really complex because the complexity comes from the fact that we're all different, and so the complexity comes from the fact that we're all different, yet we have only a limited thing of standards of ways that we think we should do it.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we should put our energy, we should do this amount of work and we should do this amount of rest, or we should work on these days and not on these days, like weeks, weekends, you know, evenings, days, like when when's a work time, when's not a work time, there's a structure that everybody kind of starts to like to conform to in some way or other, you know.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So if you take that away, like you can work whenever.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: If you're in the nature of a work that you can do that.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: But the point is, is that you know, we we're all confined to certain ideas of when it's right to work, when it's not right to work.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: You if you've got a class, then you should go to the class and not work, even and all these other ways that we kind of complicate it because we're kind of trying to live to something that's outside of ourselves and expectation.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas actually it becomes simple when we just learn to listen to what's right for us and we follow what's right for us.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're not trying to make it look like a framework or something else that suits somebody else.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's about the fact that this is what this works for me, this is the right thing for me, and it's the right thing for me right now because next week I could be in exactly the same position on a Tuesday when I have my dance class, and the right thing would be to go to the dance class.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it can change as well.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's this just knowing that it's okay to respond to what's right in the moment and at the time for you, and to make adjustments and changes to suit what's right for you at the time.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think the other thing is to just to notice, and I think you were really hitting on it there, it's so important, is that we have we, you know, that our own our productivity is only underpinned by the rest that we can give ourselves.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you if you've not nourished yourself, if you've not rested sufficiently, then you don't have enough energy for productivity anyway.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: But then it's about recognising that the cycle, the full cycle, the rest and the productivity are equal and that they they literally can't exist, like they don't exist fully without the other.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the productivity is so reliant on the rest and the nourishment.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: And when I say this is something that I've worked on for many years, I had to find that out.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And the hill I will die on now is rest is the most productive thing that you can do, but that definitely wasn't my experience many years ago, and definitely starting my business and running my practice and being led a bit too much by um clients.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: What I mean by that is saying yes all the time and working over you know a short amount over maybe six, seven days, as opposed to what I just said to you before is finding less but fuller client days.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess this is just the part of building a business and finding what works and what doesn't.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: But what that meant was I stretched myself, found myself in in complete burnout, and I had to learn that lesson that rest is the most productive thing I could do because something that would take weeks or even a month to do because I didn't have the energy and I was pushing myself too far after I rested, took a day.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to keep meeting that sometimes.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I took some time off a few weeks ago, and oh, clearing my emails was a task that I just it wasn't really important, so it's not significant enough for me to do straight away.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, oh, if I get some downtime on the holiday, I'll just clear through my emails.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't manage to do it, but then on the way home, I think I was traveling, I just did it within an hour, and again, that was a like a um a confirmation again that sometimes the rest gives you the energy to do the things that you're struggling to do, and it's a lot quicker and easier, but it was definitely a reminder of rest, creates the productivity, like you've just said, yeah, and I think there is so much it when you when like when I work with my clients and we're talking about energy cycles and learning to listen to your energy, you you do know, you learn to have an understanding of when you're hitting that mark where I know I can sense my energy tipping into tiredness, and that's the point, almost just before that, that I know to stop and not allow myself to tip into tiredness because that will need um a greater kind of restoration in a way.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Not you know that that's a problem, but like I say, with what I was doing the other night, I my when I went through it in my head, I was kind of like, yeah, but if you needed two days to not do anything, Sarah, you'd give that to yourself.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: So give yourself this moment where you know that you what you want to do is really focus on your work because I trust that I will honour all parts of my cycle, and I think the problem comes from not being able to honour that part of your cycle, and then what happens is, and this is what I see quite often with clients, people want to be consistent in the way that they work, but what actually draws you into inconsistency is allowing yourself to get too tired because then you have to give yourself almost more space than you kind of maybe were allowing for to rest and recoup.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: When you work within your cycle, your own energy cycle, when you understand how you work, then you build in the space for the rest.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's no guilt and shame about it.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know it's part of your productivity, and then you're firing on all cylinders and ready when you're there to be productive.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: When you draw yourself into exhaustion, then you take longer to recover, and then people get more anxious.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: I find about I'm being inconsistent, I'm not, I'm not doing, you know, like I'm not showing up where I need to.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's that kind of what I find generally one of the big kind of issues around consistency for people.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about the fact that you have to be front-facing and out there all the time.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's the fact that you become, you manage your own energy, not your energy is managing you.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so true what you just said there of if we don't honour that rest, we do need longer time to recuperate.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I see that often in the work that I do, people will push themselves to perhaps a place of burnout or close to it, and then they'll literally need a week off, two weeks off, however long it is, and they're not necessarily recovered or restored.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's also the way that we do that.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Often I'll have conversations of you know, lying on the couch isn't necessarily restorative unless it is for you and in that moment.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's ways that we can restore ourselves as well.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, I definitely hear, well, I've been off for a week, I don't feel any better, or I'm worried that when I switch off, it's harder to become productive again.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's literally what you've just said.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: You can you can answer on this as well.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that is that rest is is recovery time.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a and and we need that long time to be able to come back to productivity.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: But the idea is well, I work so hard, I max myself out for months continuously, even years in some cases.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, a week isn't gonna be right, I'm restored, I'm back to productivity again.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like you said, we're not honouring for rest and energy as we go, yeah.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I think they really also, and that's yeah, absolutely spot on.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, you it's when we look, let's look at the word honouring the rest.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to honour the rest.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Rest, lying down, stressing about the fact that you're resting is not honouring the rest.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's why you don't restore within the rest.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because you start feeling guilty is not restful.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Guilt and shame about rest is not restful.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's so it lets if we choose the word value instead of honouring, you have to value the rest as much as you value your productivity, you have to value yourself and know your worth even as you're resting, not just feel worthy when you're being productive.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a little real peace there, because that's that's the only way to really rest is to feel that whilst you rest, you you're as valuable as when you are being productive.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say that's a huge piece, and it's something that I see massively.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think you've literally said it because we don't I don't think we live in a world that does um value rest as much as productivity.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we're constantly told possible, work, do hard, like keep going, be consistent, be disciplined, and we don't have that value for rest.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I see a lot of self-worth based on productivity and outcome, and it's such a um it's it's also linked, I think, is what I'm gonna say.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people struggle with it, and I understand why, because of the environment and the society I think that we live in and have lived in for a little time.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's huge.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a massive thing.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that there is, you know, there's a lot of um what do I want to say, education of kind of I think I think we live where we can we start to see messaging and things like that, messages around, you know, rest is important, not always working.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Don't, you know, don't start a business.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't start a business to work every single hour and all that.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of stuff out there that says that, but I'm not sure that everybody is necessarily one, buying it and two, definitely not kind of honouring it or valuing it in the same, you know, we're not we've not shifted ourselves into that real understanding of the value of rest.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's that's where you get to be very like okay with working like long hours when you want to and when you need to, because you value the fact you know, if you know that you are somebody who is prepared to give yourself exactly what you need, so give yourself the opportunity to work hard when you want to, but give yourself also the rest, the restoration, restoration, the nourishment, the recovery, you know, any of that.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if you're not, if you can't give yourself that, then you probably do need more kind of structure around when it's okay to work and when it's not okay to work, which was a sort of the other part of what we were talking about was routine and how to hold yourself to routine and how some people need routine for their productivity and other people don't.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: They need to be able to move more freely between when it feels right to do this and when it doesn't feel right to do that.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, this is another part of the complexity that we were talking about because actually it's really aligned for some people to get up and work at this time and finish work at that time.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: That is the right thing for them.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have to just honour ourselves and our own individual unique pattern of energy because that's the only way to make sure that we're actually taking the best care of ourselves and working in the most aligned way.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was you that said before sometimes you'll work on a weekend and you'll take two days off in the week, and it it changes, and I totally get that.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: When I started my business, I worked mostly weekends with clients because I worked longer hours but shorter days in the week, and that really worked for me.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people would say, Oh, you you know, you do you mean Saturday, Sunday client hours, and it really worked for me and my lifestyle, and then I got into a place at the moment where I want my weekends free because I tend to see friends and family, but then also finding myself sometimes in that kind of nine to five Monday Friday, and I had a conversation with a friend recently of oh, we built our business for freedom and flexibility, and actually it is okay if we want to work on a weekend because otherwise we're then conforming to nine to five work, and so again to come back to the complexity and I guess what we started, it is just listening to yourself, isn't it?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: And finding those cycles that do work for you, and I think something that I said before, I need to con well, I'm still in the conscious phase of it, I'm not where I used to be, I'm not so automatic and comfort comfortable yet, but I'm conscious of it's okay to work hard a couple of days in the week of a weekend, and actually it's also okay to then take a couple of days back for myself, and maybe it is a a week of hard work and then a relaxed week, but it doesn't need to be so structured that it's every week a week B, it can just be weeks or days or months, or and just being okay with that, being in your own process with it.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's beautiful.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's really beautiful.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything I think if um if you're gonna leave everyone with one thought or one idea about kind of how to take care of your energy and productivity?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: What would be your kind of words of wisdom on that, Danny?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, words of wisdom.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: What I was gonna say is kind of what you said before, a question of how much do you value rest and restoration?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And how are you finding, like you said, restoration?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because what I see so often is rest as time off from doing, but that's not necessarily rest.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, a walk is restful, and active rest is more restorative for me sometimes.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it would be to question how much are you valuing actual rest, restoration, nourishment, like you said for yourself, as opposed to just time off from doing, and to get curious and have fun of finding what feels restful.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sometimes slobbing on the couch is so restful for me, and other times, like you said, if I'm feeling like I should be doing or I'm feeling guilty, it's not, and the walk helps.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, find in finding your flow and what works for you.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I love that.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think what my what I was gonna say was practice resting.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you've just said it, you've just said it in that way as well.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: But just practice, you know, practice resting, explore resting, find what feels restful and restorative for you, and don't yeah, don't think it has to be like lying down and sleeping, although it's still very important.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes all the way.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: So everybody has uh like a down and an up.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: So what's the relationship with that with the down part?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's so useful to know.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just said, everybody has an energy cycle, no one is meant to be on all the time.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine if we knew that.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine if a lot more people knew that.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that would give the permission to I have enough Anna down.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: What a perfect way to end.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, excellent.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, wow.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you again for the for the conversation.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you always.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: I look forward to our next one.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it sounds like we've got a lot more to talk about, and I look forward to it.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 24:03
  unknown: I can't make it.