Latest / Age Like a Badass Mother / Ep. 77: Rip Esselstyn: The Hidden Connection Between Food, Sex, and Longevity

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Ep. 77: Rip Esselstyn: The Hidden Connection Between Food, Sex, and Longevity · Age Like a Badass Mother

0:00
Hi, friend.
0:00
Today's guest is the plant based legend Rip Esselstyn.
0:05
If you think you know a lot about him, well, you probably do.
0:09
But we dig into some really fun stuff that you might not know about him, so stay tuned for that.
0:15
And speaking of plants, if you're interested in adding more plant based meals to your life, head over to my website.
0:21
Well, elephant.com after the show to download my free cookbook with recipes like queso, Sloppy joes, lasagna and cupcakes.
0:30
And if you're really ready to reverse disease like I did, check out my online class, Ace Plant Based Eating While you're There.
0:39
I want to thank you again for listening.
0:41
Helping you to be healthier in mind, body and spirit is at the forefront of everything I do.
0:47
You mean the world to me.
0:49
So let's jump into today's show.
0:53
Hi friend, are you looking to age healthfully, confidently and vibrantly?
0:57
Then this podcast is for you.
0:59
Smart, slightly salty, irreverent, and thought provoking.
1:03
I'm Lauren Bernick and this is age.
1:06
Like a badass mother.
1:09
This man needs no introduction for this audience, I imagine, but here is a very abbreviated version.
1:16
Rip Esselstyn hails from the first family of plant based royalty.
1:20
I wrote this, not him, by the way. He.
1:24
He's the author of four books, including two New York Times bestsellers.
1:29
He's the host of the wildly popular Plant strong podcast.
1:33
You can find out more about his retreats and plans.
1:36
Strong meal solutions at Plant Strong. Com.
1:40
Please welcome.
1:41
Former firefighter, professional triathlete and two time masters swimming record holder in the backstroke.
1:49
My fellow Austinite Rip Esselstyn. Hi.
1:53
Thank you. Laura and I just.
1:54
I hope that I am aging like a badass man.
2:00
Just like you're aging like a badass woman.
2:02
That's right.
2:03
Okay. Thank you. Yes.
2:04
Your sister actually said that I should change the name of this podcast to Living Like a Badass Mother.
2:10
So you didn't like the aging name? So.
2:13
I know she's right though, too.
2:15
She said if this was involving a man, there would be no aging.
2:18
You would just be living. And I was like, you know, you have a point, Jane.
2:22
Yeah.
2:22
You know, just leave it.
2:23
Leave it to Jane to, bring that to your attention.
2:28
To rename my podcast. Yeah.
2:30
Tell me, I love your your names.
2:35
I have a daughter named Jane.
2:36
I don't know if you know that, but I love that you all have zippy little names.
2:39
Is that because of, you know, your last name is Esselstyn.
2:42
So your parents try to give you quick little names, or what can you tell me?
2:47
Everybody's names and their birth order.
2:49
Sure. Yeah. So I'm the oldest.
2:51
Obviously rip and and rip is actually.
2:56
It's a it's a nickname that was given to me.
2:59
And bad day, day three after I was born.
3:04
And it's because I was born in, at the Esselstyn family farm in upstate New York, right across from the Catskill Mountains.
3:15
And in this particular area of upstate New York is where the Washington Irving spent a lot of time and wrote about the, you know, the legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle.
3:27
And my grandfather founded a clinic in the area called the Rip Van Winkle Clinic.
3:33
And so they, they just they called me rip and my, my, my birth name is Richard, but I've never been called that, so.
3:43
Oh, my gosh, I had no idea.
3:45
We uncovered something. Yes.
3:47
All right. Yes. Richard. Yeah. Okay.
3:49
And then I have a I have a brother who's 11.5 months younger than I am.
3:53
His name is Ted. Okay.
3:56
And then I and then obviously two and a half years younger than them, than me is Jane.
4:03
And then four and a half years younger than me is Zeb.
4:08
Dang.
4:08
Your parents, your parents are good neighbors.
4:11
They really are.
4:11
I love all of those names.
4:14
Those are great.
4:15
And who out of the siblings who got in trouble the most?
4:18
Who was the the wicked sibling, not wicked, but who got in trouble?
4:21
Who was the instigator?
4:25
You know, I would say that.
4:28
No, no, no.
4:29
One sibling took the crown for that.
4:34
I would say that we all equally had our moments.
4:40
I just can't, you know, I think I'm sure everybody kind of tells you this, but your family is such a standout like of just what you wish your family was, and I.
4:51
I mean, I guess you realize that.
4:53
Or is it just so second nature that you're like, yeah, this is just how it is.
4:58
No, I definitely feel very, very, very grateful that I was born into the family that that I was with, the parents that I have with the siblings that I have.
5:12
It was a, it was an it has been, a pretty remarkable, upbringing.
5:20
And, and the bonds and I think that the bonds that have formed between all of us, you know, as, as a family that is, that have now extended on into our families, with our children.
5:34
And now my parents now have, jeez, you know, their grandparents, great grandparents.
5:42
Now, I think they have 9 or 10 grandchildren.
5:46
It's it's a really remarkable family unit.
5:50
Yeah. It is.
5:51
I love the, video of you guys dancing like that.
5:55
You have to imitate your favorite fruit or vegetable.
5:57
That's the funniest thing I've ever seen. It's so adorable.
6:00
I love that I want to do that at my next family gathering.
6:03
How do you.
6:04
And that's and that's a lot of fun, because you all of a sudden have to get very creative.
6:10
Well, it's okay if an asparagus danced, what would that look like?
6:14
Or if you. Write.
6:15
A bunch of kale dance, what would that look like?
6:18
Or if I was a grape, like, how would a grape dance? And.
6:22
Yeah. So so and it's. Yeah.
6:24
And then we all cute and we took turns obviously doing that.
6:29
It was actually trials.
6:31
I think trial's idea in the trial is my sister Jane's daughter, who actually now, kind of runs social media.
6:39
For a company called tushy, and I don't.
6:43
If you ever heard of tushy before. I have.
6:45
I feel like I have one.
6:47
Yeah.
6:47
What it was is basically like instead of using toilet paper, you know, to wipe your private parts, it's a it's a little neat contraption that you put on your toilet, and it's kind of like, bidet. Hi.
7:00
Oh, yeah. You know what?
7:02
They have that at, Black Swan Yoga here in Austin?
7:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
7:07
So it's very hot. I'd seen it cool.
7:09
It was very it's very effective.
7:11
And it's very, environmentally, you know, on the up and up.
7:17
Yeah.
7:18
You know what it is, and it's so funny because I don't know why bidets never caught on here.
7:23
Because they have them all. You know, when you go to Europe and you're like, why?
7:26
Why don't we have this?
7:27
This is so good. Yeah.
7:29
And in Japan, they're very popular in Japan.
7:32
But I think they're making a, you know, they're they're slowly starting to make a dent here in the United States.
7:37
Well, thanks to Kyle, they will.
7:41
Yeah.
7:41
Well, so you would, who is a more strict disciplinarian out of your parents, your mom, your dad?
7:50
Oh, my father. Your father? Really?
7:52
Yeah. Oh, my gosh, I can't even imagine.
7:55
So adorable. Your parents.
7:56
What did you learn from watching their marriage?
8:02
Well, you know, they they have a very remarkable, remarkable union.
8:09
They they have the utmost respect and I think admiration for each other.
8:15
It is definitely very old school, meaning, you know, my my mother, very much, I'm not going to say defer, but but, you know, she, she loves, doting, on my father.
8:37
Right.
8:37
And and being you know, the ultimate caretaker there.
8:43
But, you know, Ann's also Hannah's fierce.
8:47
But but they, you know, it's remarkable how they very rarely fight or argue about anything.
8:57
And that was very in some ways, it was really, wonderful to see.
9:04
And on the other hand, it was also a little bit rough because it's not how most relationships work.
9:12
No. Right.
9:14
So it almost set up a, a, a false sense of what, you know, every relationship would look like.
9:21
And, you know, as I went through my different relationships with women, I quickly realized that I wasn't having the same kind of, I was just not like my.
9:34
Beautiful, yeah, beautiful relationships that my parents had for whatever reasons.
9:38
Right. So.
9:40
But that they were they they were such a fantastic example and representation of what a successful marriage could look like.
9:50
Yeah.
9:51
That and and as you and I both know, it seems like I don't know what the stats are these days, but over 50% of marriages don't don't make it.
10:02
Yeah.
10:03
I mean, it's not easy.
10:04
I mean, you it definitely takes a lot of compromise, but you've been married a while to.
10:08
Jill is your wife, is that right? Yeah.
10:10
Yeah, my wife is Jill.
10:11
And we've been married since 2006.
10:13
I mean, I, I took my time because I wanted to make sure that when I did get married, it, it was, it was, it was with the right woman.
10:21
And she's been remarkable.
10:23
And, we get along fantastically well and have three children that we couldn't be happier with.
10:30
So, Yeah.
10:31
So we've been married now. Almost, jeez.
10:34
Almost 20. Years. Almost 20 years.
10:36
Yeah. Yeah.
10:37
I mean, that's great.
10:38
And, I heard from a mutual friend that you.
10:41
You met her on a blind date. Is that right.
10:44
Jill?
10:45
No, no, Jill was.
10:46
Jill was not a blind date.
10:48
No, no, no. How do you know?
10:49
She started a very successful network of charter schools here in Austin called KIPP.
10:57
KIPP.
10:58
It's an acronym for Knowledge is Power program.
11:01
And one of my one of my good friends was on her board of directors, and he invited me to go.
11:11
This is when they were in a strip mall, and they were only serving about 24 kids.
11:15
And he invited me to go and change out the fluorescent lighting there and put in a new refrigerator.
11:22
And he's like, this woman is like doing really amazing things in education for underprivileged, you know, kind of demographics.
11:34
And so I was like, I'm in.
11:36
And so I met her and I was like, wow, this is, a young whippersnapper.
11:41
And I really like her whole energy and sense of purpose.
11:46
And she's so passionate about this.
11:48
And so we ended up going, going on a date and, yeah.
11:53
And we four years later, we got married.
11:56
Well.
11:57
Just just a quick four years later.
11:59
Yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh, that's great.
12:02
So did you kind of know right away even though you took your time or what?
12:06
You were just a little gun shy because you were trying to take it slow or what happened there. You.
12:11
No. It took so long.
12:12
No, I'm, I'm, I'm like that in life.
12:15
I kind of sometimes big decisions like that, I don't, I don't usually rush into it.
12:20
No, I, I had a pretty good sense after the first date that, she would probably be my wife.
12:28
Oh, really?
12:29
And what she.
12:30
What does she say?
12:31
Did she know right away or she did.
12:31
She did.
12:34
Yeah. Yeah. That's good.
12:36
I well, I know that probably everybody who's listening knows.
12:41
You know who your dad is?
12:43
Caldwell b s Austin Jr, who literally wrote the book on preventing and reversing heart disease.
12:50
And, I guess were you in college when when he said he and your mom said, hey, we're going wholefood plant based store.
12:59
Yeah.
13:00
So I was I was a sophomore at the University of Texas at Austin.
13:04
All right. That's why.
13:05
Did you come here on a swim scholarship?
13:07
I did, I did.
13:08
Yeah, yeah.
13:09
I never left Austin like a good person.
13:11
Never left Austin.
13:13
And yeah, it was 1984 when he started his research at the Cleveland Clinic and asked the cardiology department to send him there.
13:24
Just worst, patients that had been turned down for another bypass or stent or angioplasty, and they had no recourse but basically to just go home and, you know, figure out, what they wanted to do, after they died, literally, I mean, most of the most of these patients have what's called end stage heart disease, which typically means you have less than a year to live.
13:51
I mean, that's just that just gives you an indication of how bad off these patients were.
13:56
And so my father took them underneath his wing, and he saw them every other week for five years.
14:03
Wow. Right.
14:04
Wow. And made them made them keep a food food diary and, and then every other week he would see them and go over that food log.
14:12
He'd do their blood pressure, weigh them in, do a lipid panel to check their cholesterol levels.
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And so they, they knew deep down that they had a man that truly, truly cared about, the direction that their that their heart disease was, was moving in.
14:33
And, I mean, incredibly enough, you know, they were around five years later, ten years later, 15 years later, many 20 years later.
14:42
And then when they did perish, as we all do.
14:47
They, they, they weren't perishing from heart disease or cancer.
14:50
It was, you know, other ailments from, from being, you know, in your late 80s or 90s.
14:55
So pretty remarkable that, you know, took people that were knocking at death's door and gave them another, you know, 15 to 20 years of, of a really grand life.
15:06
That's just a spectacular story.
15:08
It really is.
15:09
And so he told your family, okay, hey, we're going to start doing this diet now.
15:14
You were away at school, so I guess you had options.
15:17
You didn't really have to do it, but did you?
15:20
And and what was also the beginning of the heck yeah.
15:23
So interestingly enough.
15:26
So I was eating at the athletic, dining hall, and I was there with the basketball players, the football players, swimmers, some of the golfers, some of the tennis players.
15:39
And it was it was steak and eggs and soft serve ice cream, chicken fried steak.
15:47
I mean, it was.
15:48
Oh, God.
15:49
You know, at the time it was like, wow, this is fantastic.
15:52
But you know, it was not healthy. Right.
15:55
But in 19 so it was 1984 when my father started this.
16:01
But I would come home for Christmas break, for Thanksgiving, for the summers part, part of the summers.
16:10
And so I got exposed to this over a period of my two years before I graduated, when I was home.
16:19
But I didn't embrace it when I was a student at the University of Texas because, you know, I was I was eating at a location that wasn't serving that kind of food.
16:31
Yeah, nobody serving that kind of food back.
16:33
Yeah. No, that's true.
16:35
But as soon as I graduated, I immediately started, you know, buying my own food, making my own food.
16:42
And so that's when I started, you know, full scale going in this direction was, was, really January of 1987.
16:53
But what was your buy in like, what did you just say?
16:56
Oh, I really like this food.
16:57
I feel better when I'm home.
16:58
Like, why did you buy into it?
17:00
Because I certainly didn't have to know.
17:03
But you know what?
17:05
It's a great question because there's a number of reasons.
17:08
Number one, my grandfather had his first heart attack at the age of 42.
17:16
And then and then he ended up dying at the tender age of 72 from a combination of, prostate cancer and type two diabetes.
17:27
Was that an stat or your dad?
17:29
That's my dad's dad. Oh, wow. Right.
17:32
And so.
17:35
And then I had this sort my sophomore year at UT, the whole the whole swim team had their, a lipid panel done, and my total cholesterol was about 210, and my LDL was about 130.
17:50
And, you know, my father was starting to do research.
17:54
And, you know, the the ideal numbers back then were try to get that total cholesterol, you know, under 150 that LDL closer to under under 80.
18:05
And so even though I was still, very young, like, you know, 2021, I wasn't so arrogant to think that I was immune from heart disease.
18:19
So, and then it just so happens that, you know, I was trying to figure out what my next move was going to be after graduating from college.
18:28
And that's when I decided that, you know what?
18:30
I do not want to sit behind a desk.
18:34
I love athleticism, I love the fact that it is very black and white, like whoever crossed the finish line first, right?
18:41
And you're you're the winner.
18:43
And it's based on a time and you're racing against other people.
18:46
So that's what I did for the next ten years.
18:49
And it just so happened that the number one triathlete on the planet at the time, Dave Scott, was a hard, hard, hard core vegetarian.
18:57
Yeah. Wow.
18:58
So so, you know, for health and performance reasons, I started eating that way in 1987.
19:06
And I've never looked back.
19:09
That's, you know, that's just seems like it would have been so difficult to kind of adhere to this back in the day.
19:16
I mean, when you went out, were there, what were you able to stick to it when you went out to eat?
19:20
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah.
19:22
What did you they had. To me well, you know, you live in Austin and so, you know, I would go to Chewy's and I would get the big as your face burrito and I would just have them do rice and beans and all the vegetables that they could throw in there.
19:36
There was a restaurant called Dread Gills, and I would get the I think it's called the orgy, orgy platter, where it was nine.
19:45
The chef would give you nine different vegetables.
19:48
You didn't have a decision, but nine different vegetables, right?
19:51
Oh, wow.
19:52
Including, you know, beans.
19:54
You know, there's there Mr.
19:57
natural was here.
19:58
There's, you know, you can make just about any pizza place, work.
20:03
You just get veggies, you don't get cheese, and I usually get extra sauce.
20:08
Yeah. So I was able to make it work.
20:10
And then eating at home.
20:11
Yeah.
20:11
You know, it was it was just a lot of different.
20:14
I mean, let's.
20:17
This breakfast is always a slam dunk.
20:20
It's just oatmeal or a clean cereal with with fruit on top and then some sort of a plant based milk, you know, lunches typically for me, back then, I was training so much, they were typically several sandwiches.
20:36
So I would, you know, whole grain bread with hummus, hummus, and then all kinds of green leaves on top, sliced tomatoes, bell pepper, of course.
20:48
Avocado.
20:50
You know, I had to do everything I could to maintain my weight back then.
20:54
I have about 165 pounds, and, you know, I'm about 62 as well.
21:00
And then dinner was usually a big salad and then, you know, pasta or some sort of a casserole.
21:06
Rice and beans has been a dish that, you know, I've had.
21:12
Since then I have it probably at least once a week.
21:16
Some sort of a rice and beans extravaganza.
21:18
Love, love lentils, sloppy joes.
21:22
I mean, the list, the list goes on and on and on and how I.
21:25
And then, of course, another side of the story is how I got a bunch of Texas male firefighters to do this as well.
21:31
But yeah, so I'll I'll stop there with the triathlons for now.
21:34
Well, I mean, so I guess you kind of credit your diet to your success as triathlete.
21:45
Part of it I mean obviously.
21:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:47
Well, well, well, listen, I mean, I so I swam for four years at the University of Texas at Austin.
21:56
I before that I swam as an age groupers since about the age of eight.
22:00
And so I had a very strong swimming background going into the sport of triathlon.
22:07
And within one year of doing triathlons and learning how to really navigate in the open water, because triathlons, it's an open water swim.
22:16
You're not in a pool.
22:17
That's so you're you're in the ocean or a lake or, you know, a river or something like that, which I ended up adoring.
22:25
I loved the fact that you had to use your site, your sighting.
22:30
You had to navigate around, you know, buoys, you had to figure out, you know, do I want to go out hard?
22:38
So I'm not, you know, bumping, bumping up against, you know, people the whole time.
22:43
And then the pacing, you know, when you don't have a pace clock, you don't have walls and turns.
22:48
It's a whole nother dynamic.
22:52
But I, I ended up being really good at it.
22:53
And so I became like, really one of the top 2 or 3 swimmers in the sport of triathlon.
22:59
After about a year.
23:00
And then, yeah, I was always a good, decent biker running, you know, because I was such a swimmer and I had a bigger upper body.
23:12
I could run well, but I wasn't a gazelle like some of these other runners.
23:17
So I would usually come off the bike first after come off the bike first, and then I'd just be kind of running to save my life to, you know, try and get in the prize money.
23:27
So but yes, the, the food definitely.
23:33
It helped tremendously as far as my recovery, as far as, you know, I very, very rarely got sick.
23:41
As I talked about it.
23:42
I never had to worry about my weight.
23:44
I was always lean and mean.
23:46
You know, the other thing that we're learning more and more and I didn't know this at the time, but, you know, Green Leafy is are fantastic for opening up and dilating your blood vessels.
23:58
Yeah.
23:58
And so the more that you know, the more green leafy is that you can eat.
24:03
And this was especially true with my father's heart patients, the better off that you'll be at kind of restoring your vessels ability through their production of nitric oxide, through their and through the endothelial cells to produce this magic gas and nitric oxide that basically allows your vessels to dilate, become youthful, elasticized.
24:31
The inside is like Teflon instead of like Velcro, and all that helps when you're trying to get oxygen to working muscles.
24:41
As a triathlete, whether it's, you know, your primarily your upper body when you're swimming, your legs, when you're biking, and then kind of a combination of everything when you're, when you're running.
24:51
So the food was absolutely of paramount importance, but it was just kind of like, you know, the icing on the kale.
25:02
Right. Exactly.
25:04
And then, you know, I want to talk more about nitric oxide in just a minute.
25:07
But you did bring up your, the engine to and I think, you know, that's what you're very well known for, that.
25:14
Yeah.
25:15
Do you want to tell that story just really quickly about, you know, how that all went down?
25:20
Yeah.
25:21
No, I love I love telling the story.
25:24
And I'll give you kind of the Reader's Digest version, but after I after my career in triathlons at the age of 33.5, I did.
25:33
And I've been doing this since I was about 23.
25:35
So almost a decade of gallivanting around the world, competing in triathlons, I was like, okay, it's time for me to, you know, get get more of a real job.
25:47
And firefighting fit the bill perfectly.
25:51
You know, no two shifts are ever the same.
25:54
For the most part, it's a bunch of guys.
25:56
There's, you know, there's not many women in the fire department, and I never had the privilege of working with women.
26:02
It was always men.
26:03
But so it was kind of like this fraternity, and it was just this wonderful bonding experience when you're, you know, rescuing people and doing good deeds and then coming back to the firehouse and cooking meals.
26:17
But it just so happened that in 2003, one of my firefighting buddies had a total cholesterol of 344 at the age of 33.
26:29
And so I said hey J.R.
26:31
Yeah, look at my father's research and going back to 1984.
26:37
Look what I've been able to do.
26:39
And I was now in my 40s and I was still coming out of the water first on CBS, on the Xterra World Championships.
26:48
Look what I've been able to do.
26:50
And, you know, don't let your manhood get in the way of you eating intelligently and in a way that's going to save your heart, because right now, you know you are a liability waiting to happen.
27:03
And his father had a triple bypass at the age of 49.
27:07
And both of his, his, his grandfather and his great grandfather died of heart disease, heart attacks before the age of 50. So J.R was on board.
27:17
All the other guys got on board as well.
27:19
Kind of an act of solidarity.
27:21
And so we started eating this way and it became a thing.
27:25
I mean, we were the, you know, the the plant strong studs from, from station two, we got all kinds of publicity.
27:35
You know, Jimmy John's named a really healthy sandwich after us, the New York Times that a full plate, full blown article in the Metro section about us, the Austin American-Statesman did NPR, did a, a broadcast around Thanksgiving time about about us.
27:54
And, it was it was amazing.
27:57
And so, you know, from 2003 and until 2009, when I retired fire station to on the sea shift at 506 West MLK, and 5 or 6 West MLK Boulevard became the the plan strong crew man.
28:16
So did everybody lose weight and get healthy that.
28:19
Everybody everybody everybody lost weight.
28:22
Everybody got healthier.
28:24
Everybody's lipid lipid panel went down J.R.
28:29
So I challenged him to do it for 28 days.
28:32
And so he did it for 28 days.
28:34
He lost 14 pounds.
28:35
His cholesterol came down from 344 to 198.
28:41
Whoa.
28:41
So it's a drop of like what was that, 100 and almost 150.
28:45
I can't do. 100, 150 points.
28:47
It's substantial.
28:48
And then, of course, he felt better.
28:52
His his acid reflux went away.
28:54
He was sleeping better.
28:55
Just a kind of a confluence of things that that happens when you really embrace this, this lifestyle.
29:04
Who who, did you start doing publicity?
29:07
Like, were you sending this story out?
29:09
How did word get out? You.
29:12
No. So.
29:18
Originally what happened?
29:20
The thing that kind of got the ball rolling.
29:23
Have you ever been to a place here in Austin called Casa de Luce?
29:26
I have I been there? Yeah. Okay. Every week.
29:30
Yeah. Yeah.
29:31
So Casa de Luce, for those of you that don't know, it's a very, very famous vegan.
29:38
It's macrobiotic, but it's also vegan here in Austin.
29:41
And oil free.
29:42
Yeah, yeah. And it's been around for a long, long time, but, I back then you know, before I had three, three kids, I would eat there at least twice a week.
29:55
You know, it's basically all you could eat.
29:57
Back then it was all you could eat, and it was it was like six bucks, right?
30:01
So 16 now it's really stayed pretty good for all those.
30:05
But it also isn't all you can eat now.
30:07
It is not one serving.
30:08
Yes. Yeah. But it's but it's plenty.
30:11
It's a it's awesome.
30:12
And so I was walking out and I ran into a woman named Claire Osborn who, was a writer for the Austin American-Statesman, who I knew from, the Hills Fitness Center were we both were were members and, I go, Claire, I didn't know that you were like, you know, vegan.
30:30
And she's like, I'm not. But she's like, you know what?
30:33
I occasionally I try and, you know, eat healthy and so I come here, I go, well, good for you.
30:40
And she's like, you know how long you've been doing this?
30:43
Like eating this way.
30:44
And I told her and she said, how do you do it at the firehouse?
30:48
And I said, well, you know, it's kind of remarkable.
30:51
Like what's happened is and then I told her about J.R.
30:54
and how we embrace this since 2003, whenever we're at work, we eat this way and we rotate who shops for the food, and then we all kind of chip in and we help cook and then, and help clean.
31:11
And she's like, you know, that's a really cool story.
31:15
Let me talk to my, let me talk to my boss and see if that's an article that I could write.
31:21
And she got that clear, and she.
31:22
Got back to me like six months later.
31:25
Six months.
31:25
So she was very sick. Well, she wasn't in a hurry.
31:28
And I, you know, I didn't think much of it.
31:30
And so six months later, she wrote that first article.
31:33
It was called tofu, mussels, beef at Fire Station two.
31:39
And literally that's what started the ball rolling.
31:42
And then from there it was NPR.
31:44
Then it was the New York Times, it was documentaries.
31:48
It was Forks Over Knives. It was crazy.
31:51
Isn't that just amazing how your path just unfolds because of one, you know, thing like that?
31:57
I mean, it probably would have anyway in, in a way, but, you know, it's just remarkable. Well.
32:04
Yeah.
32:05
You know, and it couldn't have, you know, I think about it and how, how fortunate I am that, you know, I was at the fire station that I was, that I came to Austin to go to school, that I decided to stay here.
32:22
I mean, you know, everything just kind of, you know, all the dots connected and, allowed me to have this very, very passionate thing that I wake up every day super excited to continue to spread the the message of health and wellness.
32:42
That's I know that's incredible.
32:44
It's so beautiful that you get to do what you are good at and what you love.
32:47
Well, so how old are you?
32:49
You're what, 62 is that? Right?
32:51
I'm. I'm 62.
32:54
All right.
32:55
And, so what do you attribute?
33:00
I mean? Well, obviously it's going to be your diet, but, you know, I guess you probably are not suffering from a lot of the conditions that other men your age or, you know, heart disease and type two diabetes and weight gain and erectile dysfunction because of the way you eat and the way you exercise and the way you live.
33:23
We talked a little bit about nitric oxide.
33:25
Can you.
33:26
Yeah. Can you talk about that.
33:28
And especially around erectile dysfunction I think that I, I.
33:33
I'd be happy to and I can tell you that, you're right.
33:37
I mean, a lot of people, they get into their 50s, their, their 60s, 70s and they have had a shot, a shot across the bow with one or several chronic Western diseases, insulin resistance, the, the, the precursors of heart disease, difficulty breathing, angina, you name it.
34:02
Cancer. And I can definitively tell you that it is because of my lifestyle that I'm not on one medication and that I, disease free.
34:16
In no way, shape or form have the makings of any kind of erectile dysfunction, and, And you're dead pills that the canary in the coal mine.
34:28
Because, you know, that signals that you don't have good blood flow.
34:32
You might have heart disease, right?
34:34
Yeah. Yeah, I know, and yes.
34:36
And I'd love to talk about that here, in just a second, but I just for all your listeners.
34:46
To me, it's all about consistency.
34:48
You don't have to be perfect, but you want to be consistent.
34:52
So you want to be consistently consistent.
34:54
And I've been consistently consistent really since I was 24 years old.
35:01
That has allowed me to, you know, go out and play with my three kids whenever I want, however hard I want.
35:12
I, I swim five mornings a week.
35:15
I play pickleball, usually four days a week.
35:20
Singles, doubles, you know, you name it.
35:22
You know, in 2019, I set the world record and in, for men age 55 to 59, in the 200 meter, backstroke.
35:35
And so physically, I feel like I have reaped all the benefits of staying in motion and staying plan strong.
35:48
Now, just to take this a step further, because, you know, we've talked about my parents, so they've been doing this three years longer than I have.
35:58
My dad will be 92 in December.
36:00
My mom turned 90 in July.
36:03
And again, I mean, these are individuals that are not on any medications.
36:09
They're in their 90s and they are living life large like large.
36:16
No, no dementia.
36:18
They have all their, you know, facility, faculties about them.
36:23
Very, you know, active and, you know, my father is still at 90, almost 92.
36:31
He's the director of the Cardiovascular Disease Prevention and Reversal program at the Cleveland Clinic Wellness Institute.
36:39
So he is still, you know, seeing counseling patients on the phone.
36:45
He doesn't go, you know, into the office anymore.
36:49
Right?
36:49
And then my mom, like, you know, I was home over, over summer and we were playing pickleball.
36:54
She, there does yoga or lift weights or does something typically an hour every, every day.
37:03
I mean, it is everybody.
37:04
I think people have seen that video of her schlepping that tire tight around her waist up the hill.
37:08
I mean, she's unbelievable.
37:11
Yeah, yeah, she is.
37:12
So, so I say that because, you know, they really to me epitomize what this lifestyle can do for you.
37:20
And then I'll also say this.
37:22
And, you know, people are always say, and maybe Jane talked to you about this when Jane and my mom were on your podcast.
37:28
But, you know, people say, oh God, what I would give to have your genes and what they don't realize is that we have absolutely horrendous genes.
37:40
I told you about my grandfather that dad died at 72.
37:44
My my father's sister died in her late 50s, of, ovarian cancer.
37:54
My mom's brother died of pancreatic cancer at 62.
37:59
My mom's sister, one of her sisters died at 60 of a Geo.
38:06
Blastoma brain cancer.
38:08
And then my mom's mother died of breast cancer at 55.
38:12
Her father, died of a combination of lung cancer and pancreatic cancer at 82.
38:19
And so, you know, literally, I asked them the other day, do you guys I mean, do you know of anybody on the Esselstyn or Chrysler side of the family trees that have lived as long as you guys have and they couldn't think of anyone.
38:34
So, I mean, that just goes to show you really to me how diet trumps DNA all day long, right?
38:42
Yeah.
38:42
Right. And really good. And lifestyle.
38:42
Yeah.
38:45
So let's get back to the your earlier point about the canary in the coal mine, which is erectile dysfunction.
38:53
You know, I had Doctor Robert Asphalt on the podcast.
38:58
Do you know who he is?
38:59
He's it.
39:00
Yeah, he's preventive cardiologist at Montefiore in in the Bronx, in New York.
39:06
And he said, rip the standard American diet is the starter kit for erectile dysfunction.
39:16
That's such a good one.
39:17
Isn't that good?
39:18
Yeah. So and it is.
39:19
It's it's a starter kit for Ed.
39:21
And you know I would say and I think he would tell you that 80% of erectile dysfunction is not, psychological.
39:30
It's physiological. Right.
39:32
And so, you know, just to kind of refresh everyone's memories.
39:39
We, we we all have arteries going.
39:43
So we have, you know, the carotid artery that goes up to our brain.
39:47
We have the, coronary arteries that go to our heart.
39:52
We have the, peripheral arteries, that go down into our legs.
39:57
And then, of course, we have the penile artery.
39:59
And most of those arteries are are five millimeters in diameter.
40:04
That's like the size of this, this pen here.
40:07
Right.
40:08
And then and but the artery to the penis is actually one and a half.
40:14
So it's like one fifth the size of this.
40:17
And so which artery do you think is going to, you know basically gunk up first and foremost before all the others.
40:23
And that's in it's the penile artery.
40:25
And so that's why it's called the canary in the coal mine.
40:28
It's the first one that basically exhibits, you know, difficulty.
40:33
And so here's the wonderful thing about eating whole food plant based and all those servings of green, leafy.
40:41
So we talked earlier about nitric oxide and how nitric oxide is basically that's a magic molecule that's produced from your endothelial cells when you're basically eating a lot of.
40:55
That's the lining of your arteries. Yep.
40:58
65,000 miles of our different basically vessels, right.
41:03
Arteries, veins, capillaries, 65,000 miles.
41:08
Well. And so yeah.
41:10
And I'll just take a step back.
41:11
I will also tell you that typically if you have blockage in one place it's systemic.
41:17
You don't, you know, just have it one place.
41:20
So that's something to think about.
41:25
So know what we want is we want our endothelial cells to be just firing out nitric oxide.
41:36
And what part of the body do you think has more endothelial cells per square inch than any other part of the body?
41:45
I mean, you want me to guess, I don't know.
41:47
Are you gonna tell me that penile artery?
41:50
Yes. No. Yes. It's the male eggplant. Right.
41:52
That's where you have more you have more endothelial cells.
41:57
And so it's one of the reasons to why, you know, most of my, most of the patients that my father was seeing had erectile dysfunction.
42:08
And most, if not all of them were able to start having, sex again.
42:18
And I mean, imagine that, you know, you basically, you know, you weren't able to raise the flag for, for years.
42:27
And now all of a sudden, after a couple months, there's a party going on downstairs that's exciting.
42:34
Yeah.
42:35
You know, that's got to be a reason to stick with it.
42:38
I mean, they were probably like, damn, this thing really works now.
42:42
Yeah, yeah.
42:43
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
42:44
Now my father has some great stories around that, but, Yeah, yeah.
42:49
I mean, what do you know?
42:51
I mean, your feeling.
42:52
That's not a thing for the engine to, you know, for the firehouse when people are like, oh, real, real men eat meat.
43:00
Well, real men, you know, get strong erections with a plant based diet.
43:04
That's that's really the argument right there.
43:07
Right. Well, what I would I would tell these guys and, is guys, I go, you know, you all think that meat puts hair on your chest, but the fact of the matter is that meat is putting plaque in your arteries, including the artery, the artery in your penis.
43:31
And so if you want to become more manly and you want that puff the magic dragon to roar downstairs, you want to go plant straw, right?
43:42
That's I mean, that's that makes it that drives the point home.
43:47
I mean, really, I think that's good.
43:49
You know, I appreciate you talking about it because we really, haven't talked.
43:53
We really. We talked about menopause.
43:54
We we just really haven't talked a lot about that.
43:57
And, you know, for women who are listening, who have male partners and having a tough time convincing them to go plant based it, that's a good argument.
44:07
You know, something to talk about.
44:09
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks.
44:11
Yeah. What?
44:12
So you've just had so many guests that are incredible, I.
44:18
Whoo hoo! Who's your favorite guest?
44:20
And I'll tell you who my favorite guest of yours is.
44:22
Do you have do you have one or.
44:24
You mean really. Memorable?
44:25
You mean.
44:26
You mean on the podcast?
44:26
I'm on the Plant Strong podcast.
44:29
Who have you love talking to?
44:30
Oh, I you know, there have been a lot of wonderful guests that I've had and, you know, I've been doing it since 2019. So, I had well over 300 and I think 20 guests now.
44:46
But I would say, you know, Tracy and John Stewart.
44:50
That's my favorite.
44:51
That's who I was.
44:52
Get to say.
44:53
Yeah. Yeah.
44:54
And and John Stewart.
44:55
Yeah.
44:56
Well, John, I mean, Tracy's just so Tracy. So down to earth.
45:01
And then John is just so darn funny, right?
45:05
And just kind of calls it like it is using his sense of humor.
45:09
So they were they were wonderful.
45:12
You know, Moby, I really value the conversation I had with Moby.
45:16
Yeah.
45:17
You know, he is just so in it to win it for the animals.
45:22
And you know, he's if you haven't seen he's got to tattooed sleeves on one arm it says animal animal.
45:30
And then the other arm it says right. Wow.
45:33
And so he's, you know, he's all in there.
45:36
You know, Richard, you know who Richard Marx is?
45:40
He's, Yeah. So, Richard.
45:42
I heard that, that one's been a while, right?
45:45
Because that's. Been a while, but, you.
45:46
Know.
45:46
But, you know, the probably produced more number one hit singles than any, any other, you know, musician out there.
45:55
And I really loved his story and his how honest he was as well.
46:01
Sharing, sharing his story.
46:04
You know, God, I, you know, I had tiny Tony Robbins on talking, you know, when he wrote his book.
46:11
Tony's incredible.
46:14
Tony's. He's a force.
46:16
He is a force.
46:17
Were you able to I don't I'm I'm sure I listened to it, but that one's probably been a while, too, right?
46:22
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know.
46:24
He knew people to ask him questions.
46:26
Or was he just, you. Know, he listened.
46:28
Tony knew what he wanted to say, and he wasn't going to, you know.
46:32
But I, I, I was able to jump in and, you know, make some ask some questions and make some points.
46:38
But, he definitely is a man who gets his way.
46:42
You know, he is a force. Like, he's, Yeah.
46:45
You know, and.
46:45
Then and then, you know, I've had some really wonderful conversations with my father, with Ann and Jane, with, you know, Adam said has turned into such a remarkable, remarkable, you know, mouthpiece for for this.
47:02
Yeah.
47:03
For this movement and science and everything.
47:06
Yeah. You know.
47:07
I loved.
47:08
Yeah.
47:08
I always love when you have your parents on too.
47:10
And I loved hearing your dad tell about when he won the gold medal in the Olympics.
47:15
That's just it.
47:16
Oh, I mean, what an incredible story.
47:19
And let him tell it.
47:21
It was. That was remarkable.
47:23
Well, I, I I appreciate you, you listening to so many of the episodes that's.
47:28
Oh, I've been listening since you started.
47:30
Are you kidding?
47:30
I yeah, I love your podcast.
47:32
And the when you said John and Tracy Stuart, those were.
47:36
That was my favorite because I love John Stuart.
47:38
I've always loved him.
47:40
And, as a matter of fact, when I heard, I don't know, I think I heard that I don't remember how I heard Tracy, I well, I knew that they had the animal sanctuary, and I knew she was really.
47:52
Yeah, they knew she was a vegan.
47:53
But then I heard that she just showed up at, like, your mom and sister's cooking thing at the house or wherever.
48:01
Is that right? That's. You know, that's not. It's not.
48:03
That's not what happened. No. What happened?
48:05
What happened is she came to one of our six day planned strong retreats in black in Black Mountain, North Carolina.
48:14
So she came on your retreat?
48:16
Yeah.
48:16
So she came to one of our retreats and, Yeah.
48:20
And it wasn't until the very last day that she.
48:22
She told, Jane's husband, Brian Hart, who, who she. Was.
48:30
Because.
48:30
Because she actually really, you know, by the sixth day, I think she just was letting her.
48:39
Well, nobody knew who she was, but she just decided.
48:41
I think that, you know, I want to help.
48:44
And I am such an admirer and of this lifestyle.
48:50
And so, you know, we have the the Esselstyn Foundation that promotes, free this material and lectures and information for free for just kind of populations that otherwise wouldn't hear this message.
49:06
And so she wanted to get involved.
49:09
Yeah. That's incredible.
49:11
I loved I think that well, I remember listening to that podcast and then running into my husband going, Jon Stewart is all over Plant Base.
49:20
He's like, okay, what do you want me to do about it? Well, I just I think it's one of those things when you know somebody you admire and you love is eating the way that you do, you're like, oh my God.
49:34
But I loved the thing I loved most about that interview.
49:37
And that, I'll never forget, is I feel like she manifested meeting Jon Stewart, like she just she really wanted to meet him and then she did.
49:46
It was incredible.
49:47
I love that story.
49:48
Yeah.
49:48
So go back and listen to that one.
49:50
Yeah, to all of it. But, okay.
49:53
And I'll just going to ask you some, some quick questions.
49:56
Is that okay.
49:56
Okay.
49:58
I hope it's okay that I start off asking this one because it's really more probably something I should ask your dad, but I'll just ask you if you would speak on his behalf, because people are asking me to to ask you this one.
50:09
Where do you stand on like nuts and tofu for for heart patients, people who have had heart disease?
50:17
Well, you know where my father stands on that.
50:19
My father is, He's not not a fan of the, of the nuts.
50:27
Or avocado or avocado. Got.
50:30
Really?
50:31
He wants you to minimize the tofu just because it's 40% fat.
50:35
And he's kind of adamant that that you want to get your total fat intake to about 10%.
50:43
Damn it.
50:44
Right, 10%.
50:45
That you did not say.
50:45
That 10% of total calories.
50:47
Yeah.
50:48
And so, I mean, I think that the reality is that if you're going to have a handful of walnuts and he's not going to say that out loud, but if you were to have a handful of walnuts a day, that would probably be absolutely fine.
51:06
But the reason why he doesn't say that is because he knows that people cannot moderate their their nut intake.
51:14
And if right in if he says, yeah, you can have, you know, a small handful of walnuts a day, some people here, oh he's okay with nuts.
51:22
So he's, he's, he is, he is drawing a, hard line in the pavement with this, and you can't argue with the success that he's had with with these patients. So.
51:37
And then you look at, I mean, between him and Ornish, I mean, they've they've really shown the world that this is a disease that can be prevented and reversed.
51:47
Yeah.
51:47
Through the right, you know, dietary and lifestyle interventions.
51:52
And does your dad believe in like a statin for people who have like high LP little pain really do this diet and can't get their cholesterol down.
52:03
So I'm going gonna answer that two ways.
52:07
So first is, you know, some of his most remarkable results happen before the advent of statin drugs, right.
52:17
And, and and the I don't know if this rings a bell to you, but, you know, he had that one fellow breast, surgeon that at the age of 43, Joe Crow, he fell over, had a massive heart attack.
52:31
They brought him back to life.
52:33
He basically had a, you know, major blockage in his left interior descending artery.
52:39
And but he, they had standards and but I think he was allergic to statins.
52:46
And so he and it was located the blockage was located in a location in the left anterior descending artery, where he was not a candidate for any kind of a stent or intervention.
52:58
So he just followed my my father's program to the T.
53:01
And literally two years later, I think is as clean as a whistle.
53:04
That left anterior descending artery, so pretty, pretty darn remarkable.
53:09
So my father gets results, and, it's hard to argue with that.
53:15
And he's been published, as you know, in seven different peer reviewed medical literature.
53:21
I've read all of them.
53:22
So it's this I mean, it's the real deal.
53:24
And, another study I'll, I'll point out is the in the Journal of Family Practice in 2014.
53:32
You know, he had a 998 patients that he followed up on to see how they were doing 3.8 years later and 3.8 years later, there were 21 people that had not stayed with the program.
53:46
Of those 21, 62% had either had another coronary event or had died, 62% of those, 21 of the remaining 179.
54:02
If I'm doing my math correctly.
54:02
I think that's right.
54:04
Yeah. 179.
54:06
There was one gentleman that had a small stroke and that's it.
54:10
So basically the you know, if you're compliant, you never have to worry about having another heart attack or anything, any kind of cardiovascular disease. Again.
54:21
So that so and there's, and there's nothing that can touch that that's out there in the medical literature.
54:29
Yeah.
54:30
I actually use that study when I give talks.
54:32
That's one of my slides, that study.
54:34
So yeah, it's incredible because he had almost 200 people in that study. 198.
54:40
Yeah.
54:41
What's your favorite guilty pleasure?
54:46
You know, I would say right now it is dates with peanut butter inside.
54:53
So I take a date, take out the pit, slice it open, put a little bit of peanut butter inside and that's it.
55:01
It's like a healthy Reese's peanut butter.
55:03
All right.
55:04
What's your biggest pet peeve?
55:10
You know, I think now more and more it's people that are late.
55:15
Oh, yeah.
55:16
Because, you know, the old, the older I get, the more I just think that one of the most valuable commodities we have on this planet is our time.
55:24
Time?
55:25
That's my love.
55:26
Language is time.
55:27
Like, don't give me presents.
55:29
Don't just spend time with me. Yeah, yeah.
55:30
You know, that's my favorite thing.
55:32
Yeah, absolutely. One of my favorite things.
55:37
In the world now is being able to have one.
55:40
I mean, I love group time with my family, but when I get to have one on one time with one of my daughters or one or my son or even my or my wife, there's, it's it's delicious.
55:52
Yeah. There's nothing like it.
55:54
That's I agree, do you do you like to read?
55:58
Do you have you a reader or.
56:00
I listen to books?
56:02
I am not a voracious reader, but with the podcast, I.
56:05
I do everything I can to to try and read everybody's book. So.
56:08
And I read so much during the day with, you know, emails and stuff like that.
56:11
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
56:12
You're typically, you know, I'm not, I don't read as much as my wife or my daughter.
56:21
Yeah.
56:21
Do you, have a favorite streaming show or TV show as of late?
56:27
Movie? Well, it's interesting.
56:28
I just got done, watching, Black Rabbit.
56:36
Oh, wait.
56:37
Jack rabbit?
56:38
No, no, I think it's called Black Rabbit.
56:41
It's, It's the one with Jude Law. Yes.
56:45
Oh, okay.
56:46
Yeah, yeah.
56:47
Very, very watched the first episode.
56:50
Is it good?
56:51
Very, Ozark in in somewhere.
56:54
And it has Jason Bateman in it.
56:56
Jason Bateman who's, who's who's an amazing.
56:59
Yeah.
56:59
So that's that's the last that's the last thing I watched.
57:02
But I can tell you that frankly, I've been I've been trying not to do the Netflix binging because I find that ultimately it it's a time suck.
57:14
And, I, you know, I go back three months later and I can't even remember what I watched.
57:19
I just know it was like.
57:20
It was like, you know, mine candy for however long it lasted.
57:25
Yeah.
57:26
For sure.
57:27
So what's what's your.
57:30
Well, either a best piece of advice for aging well or just a best piece of advice in general.
57:38
Well, yeah.
57:40
I think it ultimately is attitude I think attitude is, is everything, everything.
57:48
And look, I look no further than my mother and as that's one of the greatest gifts that she has given all of her children, you know, she is so steady and methodical and just kind of levelheaded.
58:06
And then and it's just all spirit and spunk and, you know, great attitude and optimistic.
58:15
So I think a great attitude and being optimistic and just being super grateful for, you know, for this opportunity that we that we each have to be on this planet and and try and do good things.
58:34
Yeah.
58:35
And do you have a favorite health or beauty product?
58:41
I never have.
58:42
I do. What? Okay. Tell me, I do actually.
58:47
And, this is a very, very shameless plug for the plan.
58:51
Strong products that truly represent something that is sorely lacking in the CPG space, the consumer product, good space.
59:03
And it's basically food that is convenient and half way homemade.
59:09
That is delicious and made from whole, real simple ingredients.
59:15
It's not going to bankrupt your health.
59:17
It's going to absolutely take off your health.
59:20
Yeah. And I've had that. You have great.
59:23
You have granola and you have pizza crust and you have burgers and soup.
59:29
Oh my God.
59:30
Groups and stews and. Pancake mix and.
59:32
Cereals and cornbread and muffin mixes and and milks plant strong milks that are Uber, Uber clean.
59:41
Yeah. We're we're soup.
59:44
Yeah.
59:45
Ten different chilis and stews and everything's available.
59:48
You know, we'll drive it right to your door, or you can go to Whole Foods and, and get the chilis and stews or the milks.
59:57
Yeah, but but.
59:58
Yeah, but if you want the whole, the whole variety, you have to go online to plan strong.com.
1:00:04
Okay.
1:00:04
Those are good health and beauty products.
1:00:06
What's your favorite concert you've ever been to?
1:00:09
Oh my gosh. Concerts.
1:00:10
South Park Meadows, 1983.
1:00:15
It was the police.
1:00:18
Oh I went to that actually the 1983.
1:00:21
That was the synchronicity tour.
1:00:23
That was my husband and I's first date.
1:00:25
We went to that concert, not South Park Meadows.
1:00:27
We were in Houston.
1:00:28
Wow. But you're. Right, it was the synchronicity.
1:00:30
Tour, I remember.
1:00:31
Yeah.
1:00:32
And, the warmup band was Ub40.
1:00:36
Yes. Oh my gosh, I forgot about that.
1:00:39
That was incredible.
1:00:40
And sting, you know, I've always loved sting.
1:00:43
You know, and he came out in this blue smock that went from basically, you know, his neck all the way down to like, his ankles.
1:00:56
And it had all splatters of paint on.
1:00:58
And then he was wearing, like combat boots.
1:01:02
And so such a cool getup. Right.
1:01:05
And it was it got really cold and it was a full moon, and the clouds were kind of moving in the sky and, and, you know, when he's saying, you know, that one song about, the moon, Oh my God.
1:01:21
Oh, walking on the moon.
1:01:22
Walking on the moon.
1:01:22
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:01:24
It was amazing. He's incredible.
1:01:25
Actually, I just saw him last year in, Australia.
1:01:29
He looks, I turn to my husband.
1:01:32
I was like, I didn't know I could be hot for, like, a 70.
1:01:35
Whatever.
1:01:35
He already. Yeah.
1:01:37
I was like, he looks so good.
1:01:38
And then and, you know, I mean, I just he's incredible.
1:01:43
Do you ever go listen to, like, live music here in Austin?
1:01:47
Just the little bands that.
1:01:48
I would go to ACL up until about, again once, once we had kids.
1:01:57
You know, that all kind of came to a stop.
1:02:01
It just it just, I think we'd rather be home just hanging out together as opposed to, you know, getting in the car, fighting traffic and, People that that affec.
1:02:12
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
1:02:13
But otherwise, I mean, I, I would love to go just, you know, relax and listen to music.
1:02:19
It just seems like the, the effort to make that happen right now isn't, doesn't doesn't meet the pay off.
1:02:28
Yeah.
1:02:29
There's a lot of good little venues here that it's not that big of a stretch.
1:02:34
It's easy.
1:02:35
Well, Rep, thank you so much for sharing your.
1:02:40
You've been a great guest. I had no doubt.
1:02:42
Thank you so much.
1:02:44
Well, Lauren, I, love your infectious energy and all of your, kind of like, spur, spur of the moment, kind of just very, very, out of the box questions.
1:03:01
It's it's it's very refreshing.
1:03:03
Thank you, I appreciate that.
1:03:06
Well, thanks for stopping by. Hey. Take care.
1:03:09
Sia Casa de. Luce.
1:03:10
Oh, see you, Casa Deleuze.
1:03:10
And what do you say at the end?
1:03:12
Stay. Plant strong.
1:03:14
Keep it. Plant strong. Keep it planned.
1:03:16
Boom, boom.
1:03:18
Take care. Thanks for listening, friend.
1:03:20
From my heart to yours.
1:03:22
Be well. Until we meet again.