Latest / The Complete Agent - The Podcast For Premium Real Estate Agents / 118. The Boundary Problem Costing Agents Their Freedom
Transcript
- JK: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Complete Agent Podcast, where each week we get together to talk all things estate agency. My name is James Kendall, and I'm delighted to be joined by my favorite colleague, Michelle Smith. Michelle? Michelle: Good morning. I like that. I like the favourite colleague part. I hope you like to listen from the sun loungers. JK: Yeah. Well, yeah, when you you know what it's like, you have to work with those two as well. So not much of a choice, is there? Michelle: Yeah, I Yeah, I know, yeah. I won't take it too much to my head. JK: Favourite to default. ⁓ so into true traditional each week, how has your week been? Michelle: ⁓ well, marvellous. I've been in Rhodes. So it's been great. Just sunshine, nice food, family time. I don't actually think I've relaxed as much on holiday since before kids, because they're just at age now where they just do their own thing. know, Isla found some friends that she was bombing around with and Amelia is obsessed with getting a tan. She's 13, so. JK: Mm. ⁓ wow. Nice. Michelle: Uh, she, you know, dedicated a time and energy into that. yeah, yeah, totally. Um, so yeah, it was lovely. And the thing that I enjoyed most is just that mental unplug from the, the day to day and life really. Um, which I know we're going to come into later, but it really makes my brain work in a different way. I always come up with ideas for work, for life. JK: Going on twenty one by the sounds of it. Mm. Michelle: ⁓ so yeah, that mental unplug has been amazing. So I've had a great week. Thank you. JK: Good. Well, on the flip side, we've to be fair, we've had a half decent week estate agency wise. We've got some challenges with sales progression at the moment, with buyers wanting reductions and sellers not wanting to give them. ⁓ it's a little bit of a stalemate there, but ⁓ we're working our way through and we've had a fall through this week, ⁓ which is a three hundred and twenty five grander, ⁓ which Well they always sting whenever something goes, but it never stings as much as something does when you lose it at a million quid. so but no, I mean overall vow valves have picked up. ⁓ the bulk of our well, all of our letters have gone out now as well. All of our market updates have gone out. ⁓ so the the diary today I've got a shoot and one, two I thought three valves today. Then I've got three vowels tomorrow. I'm yeah, I'm I'm pretty slammed at the moment, to be honest, which Michelle: Yeah. JK: It's it's a nice nice place to be. and just talking about holidays, we had obviously bank holiday weekend just gone, closed for the weekend. So it was nice to have the weekend off and just have some quality time with the family really and do some bits with the kids and we had the the ⁓ pool out in the garden. Sounds way more glamorous than it actually is. It's a fifteen pound pool from Aldi Middle Isle filled with ta ⁓ hose water. But the kids had a great time. Michelle: you mean that's all you need, isn't it? Yeah. Bit of tarpoling and mushing up liquid. JK: That's it. What yeah, I'm gonna say what in the front garden councillor state is going on here. But but yeah. Anyway, so we were gonna talk this week. You had a great topic lined up, ⁓ about holidays and switching off. So do you wanna ⁓ before I ask you to unpack it, do you want to ⁓ package it up? All right, rub it in. You just we know you've been on holiday. Michelle: I've done enough unpacking JK, I spent a full day doing it yesterday and washing. ⁓ Yeah, whilst I was in Rhodes, so my day, I wake up really early ⁓ anyway and I was always the first one up. So I'd go out the room and walk and go get a coffee and then sit on the balcony and... as I kind of alluded to in the intro, I really had time to mentally unplug from not only work, but my day-to-day life as, you know, being a mom and having two kids, two horses, three dogs, la la la, and out of the normal routine. And what I found happening was all of these creative ideas that I don't really have time to access that part of my brain as often. So, One of the things that came up, was reflecting on a coaching session that I'd had with one of my clients, who is phenomenal, really good agent in the premium space. And, you know, like a lot of agents, she really struggles to switch off. So she was going away with her family over the bank holiday, four days. And one of the things we kind of talked around and I coached her on was being uncontactable for her clients, which was a really scary thing for her. So that kind of made me think more and more ⁓ about business owners and actually firstly, the importance of having the time to really switch off from the day to day, because it's essential for your own kind of mental health and wellbeing, but also to allow... the creativity to come forward, you know, for your business and for your life. And then secondly, the reasons why that can be so difficult and so tricky and the traps that we can fall into. So I thought that would be a really interesting thing to have a chat about on the podcast, because I'm sure a lot of business owners and business people will relate to this. JK: So what does it what does it look like then? Michelle: So I think there's two key elements to it. I think there's the client side and then there's your team side. ⁓ So if you run a business where you have team members, ⁓ this will apply to you. ⁓ If you are a solo agent or if you run a business, the client side will also apply to you. And this doesn't just come for holidays. I think this lies around boundaries. ⁓ But boundaries is a term that... You know, it's bandied around all the time. And I think boundaries can be really, really tricky. because people can find it difficult to set a boundary and there will also be a narrative that they're running in their mind as to why they can't set a different boundary. So you've really got to get underneath the reasoning. So, you know, we can start with clients first and a few things popped to my mind. know. kind of availability and opening hours if you have a branch. ⁓ These are all boundaries ⁓ and setting a boundary around client expectation and communication ⁓ can be really easy. And I think a lot of times it can be over thought. ⁓ So an example, know Ian quite a while ago, a few years ago, closed on a Saturday. ⁓ so, you know, they are a Monday to Friday operation. and that had been armed and hard about for quite a long time, but actually the reality of setting that new boundary, ⁓ and that new expectation with the clients, was really easy. Everyone accepted it. So I think often it's the thought of it that is the problem, not the actual physical execution of it. there's also something that comes up with confusing. JK: Yeah. Michelle: the premium service with 24 seven availability. So back in the day, I remember ⁓ being sat in someone's front room when I was working for a corporate. And if you were open half an hour later than the independent down the road, that is one of the USPs that you would talk about. You know, we work harder, we're there longer. And it's a load of bull, you know, people want a result and JK: Mm. Michelle: You know, you don't want to fall in the trap of trying to push the quantity over the quality and the results. Um, so I think one of the first things that I would recommend people to do is how are they setting themselves up for the expectation of client contact? Are they saying I'm on the end of the phone? I'm there 24 seven. Um, because it's quite easy to do. Um, and, but again, that's quite easy to one pick and set new expectations. What do you think about that? JK: A lot of clients are a lot of clients are really understanding if the right clients are the ones and it's all it all goes down to who you attract as clients and if they're are made of the same sort of moral fibre as you are, ⁓ they understand that, you know, you have a family, they understand, you know, that they're you know, you're not gonna be twenty four hours, eighty five days a week, you know, it it's ⁓ the like you said earlier, the the US P and where where my mind went when you were talking about open longer and ⁓ more available is you know, are you are you a McDonald's or are you a gourmet burger outfit, you know, and a gourmet a gourmet restaurant, you know, because anyone could get I mean look, McDonald's is probably unfair to use as the an example because their pro systems and processes are exceptional and you can get pretty much the same burger anywhere on the on the earth. But what I mean by that is is that it's mass produced Michelle: Hmm. JK: it it it it does a a job to a degree, an unhealthy one. Probably a really bad example actually. Are you a Tesco Express? Or maybe are you a fast fit, you know, a fast fit garage that's got low skill? You know, are you going to take your Ferrari into a fast fit garage that's open open later? Or do you want to wait for the specialist that knows your car inside out and is going to take good care of your car, knows all of the intricacies and how it works. ⁓ it's like anything. You know, there's always someone that's more available, there's always someone that's open later, there's always someone that can do it cheaper. ⁓ but people will wait for good service. And if if you can demonstrate that you are the best agent and in terms of, you know, your results and what you achieve and ⁓ you know, if you're you become that almost attraction agent as well, people will naturally gravitate. They won't ask how when you're o I mean, I don't I can remember touch wood. Michelle: Mm. JK: The last time somebody asked me when we were open. there is there is other exceptions to the rules where, you know, I've represented clients in Australia, Singapore, Canada, where we've agreed up front that we're gonna have a ⁓ a weekly catch up call, ⁓ but that call is gonna be out of ⁓ my kind of usual day to kind of help them, if that makes sense. So sometimes that would be at eight o'clock at night or nine o'clock at night once a week. but I'm happy to do I've agreed to that. Michelle: Mm. Hmm. JK: You know, but equally the rest of the time they just let me get on with it. Michelle: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And you've set a really clear kind of agreement. The agreement has happened upfront, hasn't it? I think where it can go wrong is that confusing, I suppose, quick response times with always having to be on. So a quick response time can be achieved in lots of different ways. JK: Yeah. Michelle: Um, it doesn't mean that you have to be on 24 seven, um, and not go away and have kind of uninterrupted family time or whatever it is that you want to do. I think one of the things that comes up, if I ever deal with this type of stuff in a kind of coaching setting, it is definitely the meaning that. somebody makes of it and the narrative that's running underneath and this happens subconsciously. It's not, they're not making a conscious decision and this isn't in the forefront of their mind. Their behaviour is their behaviour. Underneath it, there is definitely a positive intention. They're trying to give an excellent client service and there is a fear element running underneath generally, ⁓ which is making them do it. So once you get underneath that and really look at it and work through it, then they can come up with different scenarios and solutions. So I think making sure that the client communication and expectations are really clear. Practically, when you are going on holiday, know, either having a call in person or sending a message, depending on when you've last contacted them and just explaining, you know, I'm going away. having some much needed time with the kids. I won't be available until X date. If the office is open and you want to do that to say there are people available Monday to Friday, should you need anything, I will catch up with you on my return. ⁓ And it's been okay with what happens as a result of that. So it's working through what is the actual worst case scenario, say if the world imploded for that client. ⁓ and you weren't contactable for those three days. What actually is the worst that would happen? so it sounds quite simple setting a boundary, communicating and setting the client expectation. ⁓ it is simple as long as you've unpacked all the stuff underneath and they feel okay with it and competent to move forward. ⁓ going back to my awesome coaching client, ⁓ she did it like an absolute ledge and went away for. JK: Yeah. Michelle: bank holiday and had an amazing time and left her phone at home. How good's that? ⁓ And the world didn't implode. So, you know, onwards and upwards, that's the first step of resetting ⁓ a kind of bedding behaviour is doing something different. So yeah. JK: Wow. On so on those bits, so we've we've again a little while back, so we've done a couple of different things that ⁓ I've had various different comments on from different people about do that. ⁓ but like so for example, we we used to be nine nine till six and we changed to nine till half five. and I did look at doing five, but I just feel like I looked at the Michelle: Yeah. JK: How often we get caught. You a lot of people sometimes wait till they finish work at five to then call. So we do need that extra sort of fifteen, twenty minute buffer to give people the chance to call. Like I and I don't mean clients, I mean inquiries, if that makes sense. the other thing we did is we again followed suit closing on the Saturday as well. because we were employing someone to basically sit in the office, twiddle their thumbs and answer three phone calls. ⁓ and Michelle: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. JK: It just wasn't really a productive you know, the person that was doing the Saturdays didn't really want to do the Saturday. it's a hard position to fill to get someone just to work on a Saturday. ⁓ but then also equally, just going back to the closing on Saturdays, closing on Saturdays doesn't mean that your business is closed. What it means is is that, you know, your core core team is resting over the weekend, but your viewing assistants are taking care of the viewings over the weekend. So it's not like we're shut Monday to fr ⁓ sorry. We're open Monday to Friday and shut weekends so no view ins can happen. We have viewing specialists that take over the view ins at the weekend and have details of the people that they need to contact if they need to contact them for the view ins and bits and pieces and and and update the sellers, et cetera. ⁓ so I think the the team part is important to have in play, but it's also the positive mental effect that it has on on you as the the business leader. Michelle: No. JK: in terms of having your so there's a couple of different things to kind of go through here. The the first thing is your team, because if your team can suffer from burnout, that's when things start to slip. Because they're and also they can end up resenting the job. If you're making I remember working back in two thousand and five, we used to do six, six, nine. So work six days, get one day off, work six days, get one day off, work nine days, and then we'd get two days off. And Michelle: I mean that's horrific. JK: It is horrific. It is was I mean, you know, I was what was I then? Twenty one years ago, like nineteen. Michelle: How many days of those were you hung over though? Let's be honest. Nine. JK: A lot, to be fair. A lot. I I was. But also equally back then I was earning three to five grand a month after tax like twenty one years ago, which is like major money. I mean I've got nothing to show for it, unfortunately, because like you say, I spent a majority of my time hung over. ⁓ but you know, but but for me, like again, I obliterated my mental health by Michelle: Yeah. You will not go there. JK: I didn't really have anything to focus on. I was just going through the daily motions and ⁓ doing the job that I was good at. ⁓ just, you know, loving the hustle, ⁓ doing what I was doing every day and banking the money, but then the money I was coming in I was spending on cars and, you know, going out and, you know, just living living my life and I had nothing really to show for it. I didn't have any clear guidance on, you know, maybe, maybe this month, maybe put five hundred pounds of that away, ⁓ and investments or do this or do that. So Michelle: Yeah. JK: ⁓ I think as I've got older, I mean like you know, the Chinese proverb that I like to talk about, the second best the best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago, the second best time is today. ⁓ so know, if you don't start and I guess things things just like my health as well. Like got serious I hit forty September last year and tried to get a lot more serious ⁓ with my health. I've been playing football for a little while, but I've upped that how much I've been playing. ⁓ I've been really watching what I eat. ⁓ decided that I was going to try and straighten my teeth out with Invisalign, a journey that you know very well as well. ⁓ we'll discuss that. ⁓ and just I guess a lot of that all kind of it it's not kind of what we were discussing, but it kind of filters into what we were discussing. Because one of the things that I had to get better at was enjoying holidays and taking holidays. Because if you don't take holidays, then Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. JK: you you you are gonna burn out. Whether regardless of whether you think you're burning out or not, you're wrong because you are and you you can't do your best work unless, you know, if you're at thirty, forty percent battery or you're at ninety percent battery, like in terms of your mental state, like who's gonna do the best work? Who's gonna win the listings? Who's gonna be the better person to work with and be around? ⁓ you know, who's gonna be the better business leader? Who's gonna be the better friend? the person that's on ninety percent. And I empathize with your ⁓ client that you coach with in the other day because that was me for a long time. I'm always here, I'm always available. And then you get certain clients that overstep boundaries that maybe haven't been set or expectations haven't been set. ⁓ and then sometimes you can end up resenting people that you're working for, like clients, because you know, you see the number come up on your phone at eight o'clock at night again. ⁓ and you think. Michelle: Yeah. JK: I don't need this. ⁓ but you know, I'm lucky that that's not happened to me for a long, long time. ⁓ because again, expectations have been set. Things like what's happened there. and it as you say, it's about putting the right things in place. And I think maybe we can unpack some of that and put maybe give some practical tools. ⁓ I know you love it you know you love me unpacking that, but ⁓ put some maybe some Michelle: Okay. JK: tips and tools in in place. I know we've done a little bit of that already, but maybe some more practical tools. Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. I think when you were talking then, JK, I think underneath all of this, it's reconnecting with your why. So why do you run the business that you run? Why, you know, what is your main motivation in life? And a lot of people, it is for a better life for them and their family. So having that time off. And for yourself to do things you enjoy, spend time with your family, your friends, your loved ones, that is actually why in life. So refocusing that, I think is really helpful because it gives you a bit more perspective on the reasons why it's important to set boundaries and give yourself set time off that you can enjoy. So I think that that is the very first, you know, page one, paragraph one. JK: A lot people don't know their why though, do they? That that's a I I think a lot of people well I certainly didn't before. I didn't really have a why. What happened my why was I've been treated bad by my employer and I wanted to shut them down, which was a really negative why in the beginning. That drove me in the big begin. It might surprise you to learn this, but I was a bit of a headless chicken in the in the early days of the business. No. ⁓ like my Michelle: No, I don't. I don't see that at all, JK: Basically my stepdad ⁓ said to me, Why don't you just set up your own estate agency? And I was like, Yeah, that's a good idea. We'll do that. I haven't got any money though, how do I do this? And this is long before the days of EXP. Bear in mind I've been going fifteen years now. And I took a credit card out and put the right move subscription on the credit card, got a camera, ⁓ had a company car, so I I bought a cheap car for £500 that had to part around the corner. but it was only really that I would say probably eight, nine years ago, that I really started to sort of I suppose understand what my why should be and what my real why is. Like you say, it's a better life for your your kids, ⁓ your family, you know, your wife, you you, you know, in general, you know, having being able to almost have that abundance, if that makes sense, ⁓ in terms of, you know, whether it's time or whether it's options or whether it's where you go on holiday. but I also do think i it is if you're Michelle: Hmm. JK: why if your and again I guess it will be for a lot of people. If your family is your why, don't burn out at work for your family because you still just need you still need to remember the that for example, your your kids. So I've got a nine and a five year old and one of my biggest regrets, but also one of my biggest learnings was not being present enough when ⁓ my son, who's now nine, was a lot younger. So between the ages of one and three. I mean, look, I'm not gonna go too deep down the rabbit hole in the podcast. I'm not sure I was emotionally ready to be a dad at the time. and also emotionally in touch with myself. And I've had this conversation with My The Half, like she knows this. But I have got a lot better n well, now than because ⁓ some of the these Instagram reels that come up, like really like impacted me. Michelle: Yeah. Mm. JK: And really made me think that, you know, sometimes like my son's nine now and there will come a point at some point where he doesn't want me to put him to bed anymore and doesn't want to read a story together, doesn't wanna like chat, he'll wanna do his own thing. But then my daughter has also got the benefit of that experience for me, whereas she's just turned five and she's got a far better version of me. Michelle: and Yeah. JK: than my son had at that age. But but a lot of that just comes from A, obviously being, I suppose, emotionally intelligent enough to recognize that. But a lot of that came from work. Like I was a very busy fool. Like back in 2017, 2018, I would be proud and wear it like a badge of honor to be making calls to clients at seven or eight o'clock at night. ⁓ or making excuses that I, you know, I couldn't do bath time or bedtime because I had calls to make and and and and stuff to do. ⁓ And the reality was like if I'd ran a better business at the time and been more emotionally intelligent and set better boundaries with clients, then I could have done all of that and probably been been better. But again, it's just having that conversation with yourself. I think sometimes people need to be very honest with themselves about who they are, what their priorities are, and also to set bound set boundaries and it Michelle: Yeah. JK: You know, if you're chasing after those one percent clients, those one percent clients are going to be the ones that give you the most hassle. Whereas the two percent clients are the ones that understand your values, align with you and what you do. You know, the the the price isn't the issue. It's you they want and it's it's the the experience that you can provide. And I think there was a there's a there's a quote, isn't there? People don't buy what you do or ⁓ who you are. Michelle: Mm. Yeah. JK: People buy how you make them feel. And, you know, in the context of a house sale, you know, do they feel important? Do they feel that you're going to be the one to help them secure their next home? Do they feel that you're the you're the one that's got their best interests at heart? And regardless of any of that, they're gonna you know they're gonna they're gonna choose you because they want you and the the boundaries are gonna be a lot easier to set. Michelle: Yeah. Definitely. Thanks, JK. That was really interesting. I think to summarize, I think it's knowing your why, knowing your worth and attracting the right type of clients. So they're the headlines, aren't they? And then underneath that, it's setting the expectations for communication, having your boundaries in place, et cetera, that allow it to be practical. Um, there was so many kind of rabbit holes that wanted to go down there and cause personal brand popped into mind, but we're going to have to park that. We'll have to get these other two off the podcast and me and you can just chat. the second thing that I think is really important to talk about is actually team. Um, so a lot of, um, reasons why kind of business owners can't switch off is either they don't feel the team can handle everything in their absence. JK: Yeah, sorry. ⁓ Yeah. Michelle: or the team don't feel like they can handle everything in your absence. And that creates the kind of need for contact. So this is probably a slower fix, but there's some really practical things that you can do to prepare your team. And as with every business owner leader that I coach, the good news is all the problems are because of you. And therefore... You have a lot of power to fix it. So, you know that that always goes down well with the coaching client. They come with me. ⁓ this is happening. My team. This is happening and very kindly and gently, you know, we kind of refocus of where actually that is coming from and and genuinely and generally it comes from the leadership that's happening within the team at the time. So ⁓ some practical tips. don't solve all their problems. So if you notice that you have questions are asked to you all the time, know, this client has said this and this needs to happen, or this has happened with this supplier, what do I need to do? The automatic response is to give them the answer, give them the solution. But actually that's a really, you know, short term fix that creates a long-term problem. they need to have the autonomy and the confidence to be able to know what to do in those types of situations. So practically what I suggest is ask them the question, don't answer it and just say, what would you do? What do you think the right next step is? And if you feel they give you an answer that's full of holes, ask them questions. What would you do if they came back and said this? What would happen if... They didn't take that well. Have you thought about this? So you're basically coaching your member of staff through a problem solving scenario. And what that does is it builds their confidence. It builds their problem solving skills. It gives them accountability and it expands the comfort zone. So it's win, win, win, win. So when you are wanting to go away and know that the staff can handle whatever's going to happen while you're away, doing this type of pre-work is essential. That is definitely where I would start. With that comes the need for them to feel psychologically safe to fail. So how are mistakes handled within your business? Because if you haven't got that, they'll be very reluctant to, you know, operate in problem solving mode. The third thing is how willing... are you to let them solve a problem in a different way that you would solve it? And that's a really interesting one, really interesting one, because there's more than one right way. JK: Mm. Yeah, I think from personal experience, I again I got I've gone almost the other way. I've gone from being ⁓ very much a almost a control freak a few years ago to kind of giving people that autonomy. And sometimes, you know, mistakes do happen. But sometimes what what you know, you have to kind of tell yourself what's the worst that can happen if you give the person that much autonomy is probably the the the best the best word in this. instance. But what what you do find is is that the benefits far outweigh what the negatives could be. Because it just means that, you know, going taking it right back to what we were talking about at the beginning in terms of holidays, you know, when you're, you know, you explain to your clients, ⁓ you I'm on off on holiday for a week, but the team are here, and something happens or something pops up, or you know, like for example, ⁓ basic things like even not being on holiday, but the the team doing a WhatsApp sweep every day. So nothing so nothing is missed. Like setting those little micro habits with ⁓ within the sort of team culture that ⁓ what happens at you know and and then for example on the whiteboard ⁓ an offer's been made but the AML hasn't hasn't been done. Like when the morning meeting, right, okay, well the AML hasn't come back yet. We need to chase the lifetime legal and f for the che but these are all things that previously I was having to Ask in the morning meeting, having to remember everything and going, what's going on with this? What's going on with this? What's going on with this? But having the systems in place and giving the team the autonomy that they can now go, like for example, yesterday, we agreed a sale on a house and the sellers away and the buyers away. and I've been I've been pretty much flat out this week. And the Amy, ⁓ who's my sales progression ⁓ manager, she is again in in her mind going, right, okay, what do I need to do here? What would I need to do on this sale? Right, okay. ⁓ we haven't had the solicitors in for the memo yet. She's automatically, without me having to go in the morning meeting, what's going on with this, the day before she's already reached out to both parties and said, Have you decided who you're going to instruct for your solicitor yet? So we can get the sales advice started. Like little practical things like that. But also equally, I think sometimes as a a business owner, When you're not giving your team autonomy, the problems that you're creating that you think are gonna come in are far smaller than you could ever imagine. You know, you'll imagine nuclear World War III sometimes when you think the what could happen. When the reality is generally nothing does happen. And as you said earlier, what is the worst that could happen that isn't gonna be fixable within a week of you returning? Michelle: Mm. Mm. JK: ⁓ Ian shared a ⁓ practical tip that he uses when he goes away. I'm sure that's probably something that you've helped him implement and he's passed it off on his own. There's another guy on PCA a bit like that, but ⁓ we won't we won't talk about him. ⁓ but just in terms of having that Ian's holiday on the WhatsApp group, ⁓ where the all the core team are in there, it's pinned to the top of his WhatsApp and anything that can't be dealt with that is nuclear and needs his attention. Michelle: Mm. Yeah. JK: Just goes in that group. So there's only one group to look at while he's away. And if it does need action in, he can get on with it. But he equally he can enjoy his holiday. The other I would just say on this, like, whilst it's great to switch off on holiday, like me and Ian and Dave have both well, both all three of us rather, have all said before that there is something quite cool about like because obviously with in the upper end of the market, you have like buyers and clients that sometimes do need you available even if you are halfway around the world. And there is somewhat of a buzz of sitting around a pool in Dubai and the the the client knows you're away, the buyer knows you're away, and you know, you've got your AirPods in, like they've got the pool running in the background, there's nobody around and you're negotiating a three and a half million pound deal, like round the pool side. There's something that's that's that's quite gives me a bit of a buzz about About doing that, which is why I I do what I do. ⁓ but it's not the same as, such and such has just happened, ⁓ so and so has pulled out, ⁓ this has happened, what do we need to do? ⁓ like you said earlier, it's the practical advice in terms of you know your team being able to handle those situations. And if there is anything that does turn nuclear, then A, give them the tools and the Almost the instructions really and you know, if this happens, we would do this. If that happens, we could do that. But also check this, this, this, this and this before because if it let's say for example, it's a a sale that's fallen through and it's only been agreed and unless it'd been agreed five weeks, we know that it's has to be off right move ⁓ for seven weeks in order to appear as a brand new instruction. So you're gonna have to deliver the news to the client either way. Say to the client, look, you know, unfortunately the the buyer has fallen through. Like this week, for example, you know, we again we've as I said we've had a one fall through. The advice to our client, and again, this is exact scenario, is not going to be to relaunch immediately in the middle of half-term when it is has been a quieter week for view-ins. Like the value valuations, for some reason, it's been mental ⁓ and take-ons, but for view-ins, it's been a bit quieter. But having the Ability to just say to your team, look, you deal with this. ⁓ And so yeah, sorry, where I was going, I completely lost my train of thought there because I was I was thinking about two different things. But anyway, what I was trying to say is with that client, we're gonna the advice my team are gonna give them is to wait until seven weeks. So they'll say to the client, Look, we've been for we've been sold for five weeks. If we just go back to market now, we're in the middle of half term, viewings are quieter. Also to relaunch as a brand new listing on Right Move, we just need to hold off for a couple of weeks. That gives us enough time to get the school holidays out of the way, launches a fresh listing, and we can go at it ⁓ with a with a brand new strategy, relaunching as a as a new house online. Right now, for the sake of two weeks, it's gonna do the damage. Now the team understand that they can articulate that to the clients. ⁓ and that's just another example of giving them the tools and training so that if that happens, that that's just dealt with. That's not something I then have to pick up A while I'm away. I'll mark that off. I'll delete that bit out. Did you hear that? Yeah. Honestly. I I do the do I do literally I do it every week. Anyway, I've marked that, delete that. It never happened. so yeah, it's about giving them the I suppose the the the tools and and tactics to be able to do what they need to do. ⁓ and handle it with that autonomy that you you discussed before. Michelle: Yeah. never happened. JK: And I mean I I did want to just briefly talk about because we had a couple of ⁓ people reach out about lack of interest this week and listings not getting enough interest, which we'll go on to in a minute. But just before that, I had something on the tip of my tongue that I wanted to talk about with you, and it it kind of goes hand in hand with what we've been talking about today is coaching and Michelle: Yeah. JK: I think a lot of people don't do coaching because they don't understand what it is. And I think this podcast has been very helpful, I think, in expl kind of explaining what coaching can be without saying what coaching is. I think a lot of people in their mind get into their mind that coaching, right, right team, you know. ⁓ let let ⁓ for me, again, I was I was very much not anti coaching, but I just didn't believe in it because I didn't really know what it was. I saw I didn't I don't need somebody on a Zoom call with me going, Well done, you're doing great job. Right. That's five thousand pounds, please. ⁓ it's it's but that you know, that's kind of how I saw it. I thought I'm a I'm a good estate agent. Why do I need why don't you somebody to coach me? ⁓ when in reality, you know, all the best high performing people in the world have advisors and have coaches. And because As you've said before, and I think it's it's super relevant, is people can get in their own way. And a co coaching doesn't have to be, let's go, team. Coaching can be almost sometimes a bit like therapy in some ways. in and what I mean by that is sometimes as a business owner, you're kind of and this is where TCA obviously and this this isn't a plug. Michelle: ⁓ yeah. JK: TCA kinda comes in sometimes. Well, as a business the business owner on your own, you are making those decisions on your own and your sounding board a lot of the time can be your wife, your husband, like your best mate. ⁓ but none of them are in or you know, rarely are they in the same industry, or are they in a position of experience to be able to give you the advice that you need? And I think that's where I think Coaching can be really powerful, like what you just you spoke about here, right? So if you said to somebody, you coach somebody about going on holiday. Like that's not one of the things you'd expect on a USP when you're reading about coaching. We all coach you have to go on holiday. But that is really, really important and that's had a massive impact on that person's life. And that's just one part of it, right? That's just one small part of what that is. Michelle: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it is, it is. I think, I mean, I love coaching. I've had therapy and I've had a coach and have both of them on and off all the time and highly recommend both. They are very different. ⁓ coaching is action orientated. So it's a collaboration between two people and the coach is there as a guide and a mirror and a challenger. So, you know, if somebody wants to achieve something, get somewhere, et cetera, et cetera, whatever that may be, the coach's role is to kind of go with them on that journey. And I always say one of the biggest reasons we don't get to where we want to be is we stand in our own way. The coach is there to... remove that obstacle. So really understand and help that person understand what it is that they're doing that's stopping them get to where they want to be. Through guiding, questioning, ⁓ mirroring, supporting, offering suggestions at the last part. I truly believe that most people know actually what they need to do. That isn't the issue. The issue is the implementation. So coaching is highly valuable and there is a distinct return on investment for coaching. So, you know, I 100 % believe that my clients will get back multiples of what they invest in the coaching partnership in the additional results that they'll have achieved in their business, in their life, however they want to use their coaching. And you use the example of the holiday. That was one very small facet of a bigger kind of coaching aspiration. But yeah, know, coaching is absolutely vital for business people if they are really serious about accelerating their growth. And I look at it as you can have continuous improvement. So year on year. getting a little bit better, a little bit better, a little bit better. ⁓ Coaching is about breakthrough performance. So it's about not just the little wins, it's about catapulting upwards and doing that within a set period of time. So yeah, I'm a huge advocate of coaching. And as I said, you know, I have coaching myself and supervision and therapy whenever I feel like I need it. JK: I think the other thing as well is that you you kind of it coaching takes the emotion out of some of the decision d the the decisions that need to be made. ⁓ and what I mean by that sometimes is is that, you know, when something's happened and your first like we talked about the chimp paradox the other week, your first emotional response is, ⁓ I need to do da da da da da da da da da da da da da. ⁓ you know, this needs to happen, that needs to happen. ⁓ when it's an emotional response rather than the actual proper response that that needs to happen. So for example, ⁓ you know, a conversation that that we'd had a long time ago ⁓ about certain things. And you're you you helped me to reframe how I reacted to a certain situation outside of work actually ⁓ rather than actually in work. But it it's that mental thought process, isn't it, about what you need to do and you know take away Michelle: and JK: how you feel, let's look at the whole picture and how do we implement that. And but again, multifaceted across every that's just one part of of of what it is. And I just feel like sometimes if people understood what it was, I think I think more people would would do it. Michelle: Yeah, yeah, but I think you're probably right. also, JK, you've got to be ready, know, coaching, sometimes it's not the right thing for the person and that's okay. And the other thing that I will say is the emotion that somebody feels in a situation is real, they're feeling it. The next question for a coach is, that helpful? And also, what is that emotion telling us? JK: Mm. Michelle: because there'll be a narrative underneath that is causing that emotion. So I never want to take away anybody's emotional experience, but what I do want to explore with them with their permission is, is that helpful? And also what is the narrative underneath that's creating that emotional response? And is that something that they want to look at and work on? Often it happens in lots of different areas of the life, not just the one that we're talking about. So that's normally where real... great change and growth happens when you start to look underneath that. JK: Cool. All right, one more last thing then. So we're just going to talk about ⁓ very quickly. ⁓ we've had people say, you know, what can you do when it comes to any stale listings that you've got. and we're always I always like to point to those four Ps can't even speak. Presentation, promotion, patience, and price. ⁓ and you know the the presentation. Part of it is, you know, is is the house staged and styled correctly? ⁓ you know, is there a video on the listing? ⁓ you know, make sure you've got all of the marketing ba the basics of the marketing covered ⁓ in terms of, you know, A, how it's presented by the seller, but also by you as as the agent. So, you know, is the attention to detail there in all of the photos and the video, etc., the promotion. Where is it being promoted? So, you know, i are you just relying on right move or are you looking at different angles of social media? ⁓ one of the things I've adopted recently, ⁓ with from Dave is the social media sort of holding the mic previews. ⁓ going into a bit more can well, just you know what, it's actually had some real great interest. Well, a house that ⁓ has sort of taken two weeks to get to market and Michelle: Yeah, they look great, don't they? I like those. Yeah. JK: I think we've like six or seven inquiries are either on email or on social media off off the back of the videos. and it's just been a good litmus test of how good the price is, and whether we need to, you know, adjust the price when when the time comes. the th so th those social media previews are are really good. ⁓ you know, things like your your floor plan, is your floor plan clear? ⁓ is your that what was I gonna say there? The the the other thing is that I think Sometimes if you've got a house that's a four-stroke five bedroom, so there's a a shower room on the ground floor, but the seller's got one of them geared up as a ⁓ don't know, let's say a a home office or a playroom, but it could be a bedroom. And if you're punching at the top end of the price range, if it could be a bedroom downstairs, so for example, there are washing facilities downstairs and it could be used as a bedroom, sometimes if you're at the top end of that bracket, rather than marketing as a four bed, marketing yourself as a five bed online as well. ⁓ not just in the description. Yeah, you can obviously the floor plan is there and I'm not not saying you should misdescribe a house, but if it could be used, 'cause a lot of the time people are looking for five bedrooms because they want four bedrooms for them and the kids and the extra bedroom to use as the home office. and if they can make up their own mind about what that actually looks like in terms of, you know, it could be a Michelle: Mm. JK: a five bed instead of a four bed because people are this I mean the stocks at an 11 year high at the moment online right and there's more properties online more people are going to be using more filters now if you have got into your head you need a five bed because you need that extra space. If you're listed as a four bed and you could be used as a five bed, those filters are going to stop you being searched. So it's just another way to get people to to see you online. ⁓ the other thing is as well is that ⁓ patients, so latest HPI data to go under offer across the country, regardless of house, is around 70 days. So just explaining that to the client that, you know, it it it could be a 70 day process before you go under offer. I mean, we had one recently that was almost 70 days on the nose. I mean, you you couldn't write it. You know, we'd had interest. couple of people view and we w we weren't bowled over with view ins and then just happened to be on you know day sixty five they viewed it, day sixty eight they second viewed it and then on day seventy they'd offered and we got it accepted. So sometimes a bit of patience ⁓ is there. But also knowing the data behind it, the right move data is twelve weeks. if you're on the market for twelve weeks and you're not under offer or had any serious offers, you're only fourteen percent likely to sell after that without changing the price. And that's a good conversation. I always have that with ⁓ sellers on the initial selling consultation and just say, look, we'll know pretty quickly. And we've just had one recently where, you know, I've been out to it and had valuations forty K higher from two different agents and they kind of went against my advice and I said, Well it's fine. We we can try it, but just know that this is really where we need to be. ⁓ we tried it for two weeks, had nothing, had Not even one viewing, I don't think. ⁓ and they're chasing another house, so they're motivated. And I said, look, I'm I'd I'm not gonna sit here and say I told you so, ⁓ because it's not my style, but the the objective here is to move, right? And how would you feel if you lost out on that other house? ⁓ we'll we'll be gutted. Right. Well, how how drastically is your life gonna change over the next five to ten years if we Don't get that extra 20K that you know doesn't exist. Well, it's not. It's a nice to have, right? Great. We need change the price. Literally, within probably not even 10 minutes of changing the price, two inquiries come in. One's a cash buyer, wants to view it, has viewed it, wants to second view it. We've had another three inquiries on on the back of that again since. And, you know, it it does whether you like to admit it or not, like as an agent. Michelle: Yeah. JK: Sometimes it is price, there is patience there in in play. But sometimes I think you know in your heart of hearts. ⁓ and I had this conversation with this particular client and she said, Well, you know, such and such is round the corner, X, Y, and Z. And I said, Well, you're right, it is. But equally, it's not sold. Look at the sold comparables in the area and what's actually selling pound per square foot. And you can see pound per pound again, that's too much. The market doesn't agree. The market knows swap rates are coming down, things are becoming more affordable. But you I don't I don't think personally, again, you don't need to reinvent the wheel. I mean, yes, you can do things like social media. We've got the agent collaboration clauses within our contracts so that if another agent has a buyer, quote unquote, ⁓ we can we can work with other agents. 'Cause, you know, quite often it is bullshit. ⁓ and it's just another way. I the classic thing that comes through the door, I believe I have a buyer for your house. Please call me. ⁓ and The amount of times when you offer the agent the fee and the buyer they believed that would be interested in the house never materialises. But it just protects you and it just helps you to be seen by your client that you are genuinely doing everything to ensure that they get a sale. So I just thought I would mention that at the end. But ⁓ we're coming up to fifty minutes now. I I'll time flies when you're having fun. Is there anything else that obviously we've got our mastermind in a couple of weeks. ⁓ we've got some new members that are Michelle: Time flies. You have to come, right? JK: Coming as well, which is good. ⁓ anything you wanted to add before we cap off for the week? Michelle: No, I think we've covered loads there JK, absolutely loads. We'll save it, we'll save some more good stuff for the next chat. JK: Cool. Well, ⁓ I'd like to report Dave Annie and are alive and well, sunning themselves, and ⁓ this will be the best performing podcast ever that we've ever done. And ⁓ we will look forward to seeing you all next week. Michelle: you Bye.