Latest / Entrepreneur Odyssey / Why Your Best Growth Channel Is the Clients You Already Have
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- Tejneet Selhi: Hello everybody, welcome back to the Entrepreneur Odyssey. I'm your host, Tejnit Selly, and this is a show where we sit down with founders who's actually done the hard yards so you don't have to learn every lesson the painful way. Before we dive into today's episode, a quick shout out to our sponsor, AI Efficacy, who help their customers gain efficiencies and grow their businesses through smart and personalized workflows. Now, on to today's guests, and I'm joined by the lovely Tim Bradley, who's the co-founder and executive producer of Pennant Video, which is mid-funnel video marketing agency built for B2B tech, working with brands in cybersecurity, health tech and climate innovation. Tim spent 12 years as the first creative hire inside a large communications agency, building a 25-person team from scratch before stepping out three years ago into launching Pennant alongside his co-founder. Since then, Pennant has grown from a fresh idea into a business on track for a multi-million dollar year. All while Tim stays deeply hands-on with strategy, content and team. Today we're going to talk about what it really took to make that leap. The lessons learnt, reclimbing and mounting he'd already submitted once before and now he's thinking about AI, or how he's thinking about AI rather, as the operating system behind the creative work. Tim, welcome to the show. Tim Bradley: Thank you so much for that intro. That was that was lovely. Thank you. I'm happy to be Tejneet Selhi: So you've described starting penning as... hiking the same mountain peak again, just on a different route. Can you take us back to, well, firstly, what you mean by that, and secondly, take us back to that decision and what was the moment you knew you had to leave the safety net of an agency and build something of your own? Tim Bradley: Yeah, I like this analogy. not only because I I love hiking. I was just up in the the White Mountains of New Hampshire last week for for a couple nights above tree line, which was really lovely. But yeah, just it's the closest sort of expression to like what it feels like, building Pennit, right? Where it's like, yes, as you described in the intro, I spent twelve years at an agency and in this intrapreneurial role is the way I describe it, right? Where I was The first creative hire in and among this burgeoning public relations agency and helped build that department to, as you said, the couple dozen folks, creatives. And yeah, it just it it it I'll answer both your questions at the sin at the same time, hopefully. Here is like it got to this point, this double, double crossroads of personally, where it was like, all right, I'm recognizing that I'm responsible for a a large book of business. I largely have the client relationships like the I'm responsible for my team's mar marketing and business development ret large. I'm responsible for the professional development of of my team, right? the creative, just all these parts and and eventually just got to this point of, looking in the mirror and also my my my w my wife nudging me to be like, hey, you're doing all this for somebody else's passive income. Right. So there was that part of it. And then the other was truly just like the the volume of work we were producing was for every industry, B2B and B2C, every channel, we did we did podcasts, we did live, we did, all that rich media. So everything, video, basically everything from commercials to social media to internal comms, for every business type, from literally pre seed Kickstarter style through fortune five, right? it's like very deep. So Tejneet Selhi: Wow. Tim Bradley: it just got to this point where I just couldn't couldn't see this I lost my the why of all this really. It was like what why are we doing this? what is what is the point? It feels like quite the hamster wheel we're we're existing on the churn of it all. So those those couple prongs are really the kind of the driving force of of going out of my own. Starting pennant, and as you said, yeah, pennant is is three years old this week, actually. So I'm really proud of that. Yeah, yeah, Tejneet Selhi: Aww, happy almost birthday! Tim Bradley: exactly. And so but yeah, so the the hiking analogy though is like this sense of like I I I achieved some sort of semblance of a peak, some sort of a vista or a view, right? And I'm and I'm going back down and I'm hiking the route again with that sort of experience and knowledge and understanding of like pa general pacing or the right hiring moments, the seasons of this type of work, the ebbs and flows of client relationships, all of the knowledge of of that that, decade plus just now turned on for this business. So it's definitely allowed us to accelerate our growth. come out the gate really strong with a strong point of view and a framework that supports our our clients and also our own go-to-market. And then just having the knowledge of this is how I would I for if I had a second chance, which I've created for myself here, is like how I would rebuild the team and do things a little more n not like smartly, but that for just for lack of a better word. It's more like with that knowledge, that previous knowledge, right? Tejneet Selhi: Right, with the knowledge, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. What did you want to unlearn? Tim Bradley: Yeah, the unlearned. Yeah. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, right, once you started building your own thing. Tim Bradley: Yeah, a lot of it was just I felt like I just was lacking focus. that focus of and and and just clarity of why was I dri like what was getting me out of bed every morning? what was driving the the momentum here? What was the purpose of the repetitive growth mechanics of of the old agency? And it's like it's truly like a to each their own thing, but for me it was just like I just want j I just really wanted and desired more focus. And so a lot of that boiled down to the focus of the business, right? just assuring that sure, we were niching down in the right industry segments and your waterfall of differentiation or however you want to describe it. But also just knowing that the the work that our my team and and Penn at Ret Large is producing is having the best right impact on our our business part like our our our client partners, but also those brands, business, and what what impact they're having on the world and humanity overall, right? So yeah, that was a lot of the driving factors summed up in 30 seconds, but of course there's a lot of nuance in in in in and among all that Tejneet Selhi: before Pennan, you almost never said no to any kind of work, any industry, any format, any channel. What made you finally draw the hard line around mid funnel B2B videos specifically and why? Tim Bradley: I'm glad you brought that up. The that power of no was a big thing for me. just that lack of focus overall. So That power of no is a really big thing. And so having our our go-to-market framework, we call it the video marketing trifecta. I'm happy to go into the details of that if it's relevant to this audience here. But it's really like having a framework really assured that for myself, we had some semblance of guardrails from the beginning. It was like we're gonna produce these types of high value, high-ticket types of of content, these these this video marketing assets, right? That really support not only a specific set of industries and a specific set of ICPs that we have, but more so the specific answering specific questions that audiences always have. So it's assured some semblance of sustainability as a business to be like, okay, no matter what the the c like a client cold inbound or otherwise arrives at our doorstep, we know this is the type of work we're going to do because it has the best impact on the. their respective business. But also it's our creative process is way more streamlined. We know exactly the types of team we need to build to support this type of work and and assure that our portfolio is like enriched and and and and grows project over project. Because we're a project based business, right? So it's just that framework was a big thing. Now along the way, and this is some of the advice I give to early early entrepreneurs or or solopreneurs or whatever is like you have with your go to market you have to always be be selling and I put this in air air quotes. It's less like I'm trying to sell every single person what we do. It's more get the reps in in describing what how your business fits into their world, how you you go to market, how you describe the the value that you're bringing to the table here. And you get lots of early responses. And those responses help sh like take this vessel of clay and mold it into what your business actually needs to be from a a point of view and messaging standpoint, right? So going through those motions that first six months or so, that's when the unlock of people this is real I'm really simplifying this here, but basically the response was like, so you really support middle of the funnel. And it was an aha moment of yeah, of well of course you do. This is this this Try fact the framework is is built specifically for this part of the buyer's journey. And it really helps position us with with our with our buyers, with our ICPs, but also really differentiate us from other studios that do all of the things for everybody, right? what I did previously. So it's really just a healthy realization early in the business that we've been able to to to just keep the drum beat on and it's been really it continues to be well received today. Tejneet Selhi: why yeah you're doing a great job by the sounds of it. You mentioned when we spoke ahead of our podcast today being grossly concerned about whether the work you were shipping was actually working not just going out the door how does that concern shape the way Pennant operates today? Tim Bradley: Yeah, it's it's really we know from the I've been doing this for going on twenty years now, the types of work that the tools that are really impactful not only for our buyers and what they need in their greater marketing e ecosystem and or sales sales enablement, right? Is like as an audience, this is the type of of of of tool of of Tool's not right for audience here. It's the right medium. It's the right part of of a journey that assures that you're you're you're moving things forward. ultimately we like what we say is we want our work to empower better decision making, right? especially in B2B, these sales cycles can be years long, it right, at least many months, if not years long. So if we can support with a tool. video that leads with clarity and engagement and visuals and all of the things that audiences prefer. There's plenty of data around that to help close a gap. Not only does that like a timeline gap, not does that help from a sales standpoint, obviously, but also from the audience. we've helped them find clarity and to make a decision that moves them forward on their path, whatever you know professional or otherwise, right? So we really I have this silly analogy or whatever. Where we're what we say is we come with the double high five where it's like one one hand is leading with sympath is having sympathy, sympathy for our buyer and the, so if it's like a product marketing manager, for example, and the role like he she they have in all of the challenges and and and pressures that go along with that role and assuring we're doing right by them and making them our our champion in so many ways. But then the other hand is that empathy, empathy for the audience and where they are in their respective journey as it relates to the brand that we're working with, right? So we get to I there's a lot of there's a lot of power in that, but also a lot of responsibility for for our team to assure that we're we're being measured in our in our creative approach to problem solving here. And and yeah, I'm really proud of that. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, no, that's great. And actually my next question was, because you've exceeded your Q1 revenue goal by several hundred thousand dollars and you're tracking towards a multi-million dollar year, which is incredible. Aside from what you've just mentioned and aside from even the numbers, what else are you most proud of? Tim Bradley: Yeah, I think it's wow. It's mul it's multifaceted, I guess, right? I'm proud that appreciating this, this is being recorded end of June. So it's H H one in the in the in the in the in the in the books and and Q two. So Tejneet Selhi: Yes. Tim Bradley: I haven't looked at like our numbers to date now, but it's like, yeah, that consistent measured growth really helps me, obviously, is just leader likes to sleep better at night, knowing we have, the six plus months of of runway and it's like we have our our next hiring decisions in place and we know the seasonality of the of the calendar and how it relates to our business. So it's like there's enough time under the belt to like to Tejneet Selhi: Bye. Tim Bradley: start to see the patterns that are super important. Right. But I think the thing is is a big number from last year was just more than fifty percent. retention of of clients, right? And especially in a project based business, year over year, seeing that growth through the rotate r relationships that we're we're we're, fortifying or building on, or just the trust that is is being instilled project over project with with our clients. that's the thing I'm I'm most excited about. It's like they're now becoming champions of of our business in so many ways. And and that's and that's huge. Yeah. Tejneet Selhi: That's amazing. And you touched on seasonality there, right? You usually have a strong Q4, a quite a Q1, planning Q2. How has learnings, how has learnings to work with those rhythms rather than against them change how you run the business? Tim Bradley: Yeah, it's really something that I'm I'm grateful to again have experienced at the at my former agency is like just seeing those patterns and recognizing from what they are and having those internal conversations to be like, all right, is this is this true in so many ways, right? But it's like, yeah, it's really simple to to look at, your quarterly cycles and be like, all right, we know last year forty percent of our entire revenue was in Q four. So tremendous swell, right? So it's like we're anticipating Tejneet Selhi: That's you. Tim Bradley: and now it's like great, let's, let's not get over our skis, but let's at least have our plan our our planning in place to to to max capitalize on that again. And then yes, as you said, our Q one, we we way overexceeded revenue goals, which is huge. So it's like, okay, is that is that a truth that we can make and make good plans on annually? So for now it's all right. Q one's our best month, Q or Q2 or Q one is our next. My point is Q2 is usually usually our slowest. And I think that's just because of trade show seasons and people are still making their end of year planning and et cetera, et cetera. But that's when I know we have to really capitalize on our own marketing and our own planning, right? Because everybody else is doing it. Why wouldn't we be doing Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Tim Bradley: it too? So it's like, really ov almost over index on all the marketing we need to do and the planning we need to do in Tejneet Selhi: you Tim Bradley: that April May world. And then here we go. Then we just, pedal to the metal for the rest of the year. Right. So it's a nice it's a nice pause. But my point is is I think if you're early in your business and you don't understand or haven't had enough like months behind the calendar to recognize those patterns. It can be really stressful when you're like, I why is this like this? When it's largely in my opinion, not really so much in your control, right? It's it's just it's it's what the seasons in the calendar dictates. And so you just gotta be equally prepared and and and even keeled about about that experience. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, that makes so much sense. That makes so much sense. here in Europe, typically summer is the quietest kind of month where there are extended holidays. Do you find Tim Bradley: Yeah. Tejneet Selhi: that that's the same for you in the... Tim Bradley: Totally. Totally. Yeah. well, normally this week is really quiet for us. there's been there's been times when I'm like cause so we close the the agency Christmas through New Year's, like many others. And I I've been encouraged maybe we should just close the week of July fourth because then everybody is, hands off and there's not like email still coming through and people Tejneet Selhi: Yes. Tim Bradley: can take their time with their families. But we actually have one of our bigger launch projects right now for a client. So it's just in that in that, just just happens to be right now. So it's but yes, by and large I've always found July to be the second slowest month compared to April. so that's when most people I encourage please take your vacations around this time and and all that. So while it doesn't necessarily feel slow because people are taking vacations and there's just fulfillment that still needs to happen with less hands. But by the books it's Summer Slow. Tejneet Selhi: sense, makes sense. So you and your co-founders are running whiteboard sessions on what AI looks like as an operating system for Pennant. What's your philosophy on where AI belongs in a creative business and where it doesn't? Tim Bradley: Yeah, our goal is to so just for quick context for the audience here. So my two co-founders and Pennit, the two of them also own and operate another commercial advertising production studio, a creative studio. They are top of funnel focused and we are mid-funnel focused. So there's a nice symbiosis there. There's also a utilization thing that plays into both hands where it's like Pennett, we largely have most of our team is are is a team of motion designers, right, and animators. They don't have any. They have a set of editors and editorial and colorists that we don't have, but based on the projects and just bandwidth holistically, we can we can go back and forth and assure holistic utilization. So I've I'm really proud that we've able to figure that out, culturally and dynamically and from a client perspective and all of that. But that really helps us when we go into situations like a like this, AI as an operating system. So, sure, we share the same finance person, the same public relations team, the same project management tool set like Monday.com and Slack and Google d Drive and all the things, right? So it's like we're already like Tejneet Selhi: soon. Tim Bradley: real, really locked in from the two businesses standpoint. So now it's like, yeah, how do we approach this so that it supports those businesses? And headcount wise, we have six mice including myself, six full time employees at Pennant, and they have about fifteen or eighteen at at Vagrance is the other company. So but the goal is that great, let's take this approximately twenty person collective team, but perform. a 40 person team, right? how do how do we how do we do that? Like that, those are the questions we're asking ourselves right now. And yeah, there's a I I can go in a number of different directions. You maybe a pause, you can ask a question, but for us it's like, how do we go through some some really deliberate gates in the way that we're approaching this and not just like dive all in, right? Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, the easiest way to break it down is, what are some of those biggest things that you would like to automate that drain you and your team's time? Yeah, and that could be a quick win, right? So you can focus on other revenue generating activities, let's say. Tim Bradley: Yep. Yeah, exactly. So the whiteboard sessions were really one was a heady deep dive into business development overall so called sales. And then the other was operations. And those are really the two biggest pillars that interconnect all the other parts as well as in and among themselves and the things we constantly came back to was well, it all really does stem from the client relationship and the work, right? Which is our superpower in this way, be as creative. So it's like understanding all the touch points of that project and of the client relationship and how can we make those more enriched and what what are the things that keep our ourselves accountable to the milestones we we we want for ourselves. So some examples would be like surveys based on the the dynamic of the team and the relationship with the client and the performance of the work and the impact it's had on the business. And it's like, great, now we can use that to produce the case studies that we need to then full swing back out to go to market. And how do we find the lookalike clients? who are the ones that would appreciate the the work that we we did in this moment to support this client at their inflection point, right? what are those based on the I C Ps we we each have, it's like great, who are who are the people inside of those and what's the best right touch and what is their calendar look like and when are the right moments to follow up and et cetera. So a lot of it is just like the detective work. We're hoping we can have an agentic approach here to help us do that slew thing and help us show up at the knock on the right doors at the right times, But again, all of it stems from from the craft and the work that that our team has done to to get us to this moment, which is awesome. And then similarly just from on an operations standpoint, is like there's so much data in what we do. all just every piece of video, every piece of photography, every bit of writing, all of it has tremendous power to to really ex showcase and expand what the respective businesses like brands are meant to be and represent and how we talk about ourselves and how we again a lot of it swings back up to go to market and and being being visible overall but also just for us it just have a dashboard really just okay cool business health these are the levers we need to pull based on the seasons and the information that we have and and all of that. So we're excited to head down this path. We understand there's it's not a A one and done by any means, but just having that that extra layer of support is gonna be really powerful, I think, as we go into the back half of the year. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So you mentioned earlier about making sure you're building something true to who you are now and not just rebuilding what worked before. How do you check yourself on that as pen and scales? Tim Bradley: Yeah. So I was actually just so I work with executive coach, so shout out to Coach Dave, a couple of times a month. And this was one of our recent topics was like when I started Pennit, AI existed, but it was more in the gen generative way, right? So chat GPT and et cetera. And but now it's like really shaking up what's possible. And again, this like mental shift from like I originally envisioned a fifteen person creative team. that's when I felt myself happiest and you have the the right key players and roles and and depth and and enough repeat business and et cetera to do the work we aspire to do. But now with these agentic workflows, it's like, well, sure you could have that, but you could also appear or act or again, be be visible or do the outreach that you need to appear twice as size. So it's just grappling with what is is possible now that wasn't when we started the business three years ago. So that's that's a personal thing, right? It's like okay, you're you had this vision, you're on the path for it, you're hiking that mountain, right? But now suddenly there's Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Tim Bradley: there's a new peak. There's a maybe you're at before was a false peak and there's a new one here. And so it's trying to embrace that as opportunity and not like a challenge, right? so that's that's the part one. And and then part two is just realizing that this continues to be a team effort, right? Which is really what, the even in the name, the whole penant connotation of it all, is really a team sport. And so realizing that I can't do it alone and we need to have the the players we have inside the four walls help help support and push push this momentum all together. So it's really exciting and you've caught us at a at that funny inflection point for ourselves. three years old, this is this is where our big next challenge is in in developing what the new sort of workflows and dynamics of this would be. And so I'm I'm excited for it though. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, absolutely. mean, with growth comes... mean, pain sounds like a negative connotation, in this context, I don't think it is. Friction. Yes, Tim Bradley: Friction. Friction is the word we use. Yeah. Tejneet Selhi: exactly. Growth brings friction, and it's about taking a step back, as you have done in your whiteboard sessions, to figure out, okay, well, what do we need to help us combat? some of that friction or help us through that friction and I think that that's a really smart approach for sure. Tim Bradley: And a lot of it is like a lot of it's sorry, a lot of it's like alignment, just assuring the people you're talking to every day are you're you're aligned with them, It's like if you're there, that's already a really good first or leap forward in so many ways. And then the other is just recognizing that you don't have all the information in front of you. And that's that is fine. It's just you have to be confident to continually to know that you're gonna continually make decisions. So just like That one decision will lead to a next will lead to the next. And sometimes your decision is wrong or whatever unexpected. All good. You just change course and make another decision, right? So just having that mental fortitude that and and and r just recognize you don't have to have all the answers right now, but it's like it's in that pursuit that is is where that growth happens too, right? Tejneet Selhi: Absolutely. Gosh, we're almost running out time, but I do have a couple more questions for you. Firstly, where would you like to see pennant scale to in the next 6 to 12 to 18 months? Tim Bradley: Yeah, we're again, I didn't check my H two before this call, but the Tejneet Selhi: Thank Tim Bradley: we're definitely on the path to exceed our our revenue goals. So we were, aspiring. So we're whatever, I'll just tell you. So we're at one point six last year. We're planning to get to two point five. I think we're gonna do more than double again. So that'd be back to back years of a hundred and fifty percent growth and That's exciting, if not daunting. But then it's it's from there, just recognizing we can't really sustain that in so many ways. But it's like, just keep keep pushing and desiring for that. but yeah, it's like the revenue aside. It's like, I want to make sure that we have growth paths for for this team. That's one of the more challenging parts is that as we're building, we're hiring, but we don't have That's that's the base. that is the the the like where we're building from. So just assuring we have clear growth paths for for the team members, assuring that the clients are we're expanding with them and not just splash in the bucket moments. Those are those are challenging, right? So just growth more in that way. And then I had this other KPI that I haven't quite figured out the mechanics around, but this KPI of calm. Right? what is the sort of sense of calm we're all feeling at any given time, And it's like calm in the in the process, calm in the communications, in the the cash runway, just like in a project based business, the chaos is pr it kinda goes hand in hand, So having the sense of calm among team members and well a lot of these a lot of these folks have young families or they're gonna start families, right? So I just wanna make sure They're their setup for success outside of this proverbial number five, right? Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Tim Bradley: and then the last is just like I don't know if it's the recognition is the right word, but just the right rapport w in our in our industries that we that we like the creative industries that we exist in. So for example, we had another studio that we've been fans of forever proactively reach out to us and be like, hey, would you want to support? help sponsor our semi every other year event and so as a studio yeah absolutely so just knowing that we're recognized enough that people know that what we're here to support the creatives in the Tejneet Selhi: Ready? Yeah. Tim Bradley: space overall and and so I think we're we're doing the right things. It's just like you do have to pause and reflect and take the time to to assure you're doing what's right for for everybody. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, definitely. And I love that. Sounds like Pennant is a great place to work because you really do care about your staff, which I think is lovely. Okay, final question. Any last bits of advice you would give to new founders out there who are either wanting to take the leap, let's say, from an agency or who recently taken the leap and are going through challenges? Tim Bradley: Yeah. practically time block, put blocks of time on your calendar to do the reflection and pre-flexion that you need to do. time block the the the energies in your week, right? it's fluffy as that sounds. It's like I know that my Mondays, I'm not at my creative best, but I can certainly get through administrative stuff. I can certainly do cash flow. I can certainly do the operation side of the business. So it's like Realizing the patterns in your own week over week energies and momentum and put time blocks to assure that you're doing that and and honestly eating the proverbial frog or whatever that saying is, right? Of doing the hardest thing first in your day is a is a huge, huge momentum builder, right? So for us it's like that business development that, staying in touch and in in in in in front and visible with clients and things like that, right? so just making sure that that's done. week over week. So that's the tactical stuff. But outside of that, it's like finding that coach, finding that mentor, finding those those creative collaborators. I I work with our creative director as a writer, all of the time. And that just helps spur the ideas to to to make sure we're showing up in the best right ways possible. So those those little prongs are of support are are hugely helpful, especially in the early days. Tejneet Selhi: Nice, I love that, that makes so much sense. Yeah, carving out time to reflect. Yeah, I think that's amazing. Tim, this has been such a grounding conversation and an interesting look at what it actually takes to step out on your own. So thank you so much for being so open with us. I really appreciate it. Tim Bradley: Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity. I anything anything I can do to help or, send the proverbial elevator back down, I always want to do. Yeah. Tejneet Selhi: you know what, and we all need that helping hand. So for anyone listening who wants to follow along with what Tim and the Pennant team are building, head to Pennant Video, that's P-E-N-N-A-N-T dot video, and find Tim on LinkedIn. Tim, are you happy to connect with some founders who may wanna connect with you? Tim Bradley: Yeah, of course. Absolutely. Tejneet Selhi: Amazing, thought you would. And as always, if this conversation has resonated with you, the most helpful thing you can do is to share this episode with another founder who needs it. And until next time, this has been the Entrepreneur Odyssey. Thank you for listening and keep building. Thank you, Tim. Tim Bradley: Thank you so much.