Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / Change Your Food Attitude, Change Your Life: with Intuitive Eating Nutritionist Brooke Glazer

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Change Your Food Attitude, Change Your Life: with Intuitive Eating Nutritionist Brooke Glazer · QUESTION EVERYTHING

0:04
Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
0:08
Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe, and each week my guests
0:12
Speaker 1: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
0:17
Speaker 1: This is pretty smart. This episode is special because I'm
0:21
Speaker 1: mixing personal with professional. Brooke Laser is a registered dietitian
0:27
Speaker 1: nutritionist who specializes in intuitive eating and helps her clients
0:32
Speaker 1: find freedom with food. She's also one of my oldest
0:35
Speaker 1: and closest friends. Actually, a friend doesn't feel like the
0:39
Speaker 1: right term. Brooke is my family. We met when I
0:42
Speaker 1: was ten and overnight camp. She tells the whole story
0:44
Speaker 1: in the episode, and at camp you're called CBK sisters.
0:48
Speaker 1: She's been my sister ever since. Brooke went to Wisconsin
0:51
Speaker 1: for college, and then I did. Brooke moved to la
0:55
Speaker 1: and then I did. Both of our families live in Chicago,
0:59
Speaker 1: so when we're in for holidays, we spend them together.
1:02
Speaker 1: I'll give you a few more examples. I lost my
1:04
Speaker 1: air pods and needed them to film about a month ago,
1:07
Speaker 1: so I called Brooke because who can you ask to
1:10
Speaker 1: borrow air pods from? They're so personal and in your ears.
1:13
Speaker 1: You have to call someone that is your family. I
1:17
Speaker 1: knew she wasn't going to be happy because she hates sharing,
1:20
Speaker 1: but she dropped them off at my apartment. Brooke cooks
1:23
Speaker 1: me dinner because you all know, I don't know how
1:25
Speaker 1: to move around a kitchen. And sometimes I'll just go
1:27
Speaker 1: sit on her couch and not talk, which is real friendship.
1:30
Speaker 1: Or sometimes she'll just talk to me for like two
1:32
Speaker 1: hours because I'm tired. And she's hysterical, like truly one
1:36
Speaker 1: of the funniest people I know, and she has the
1:38
Speaker 1: best stories. You know what, here's a quick little Brook story.
1:43
Speaker 1: A few years ago, Brooke and me and my ex
1:47
Speaker 1: boyfriend went to a Halloween party and we're walking in
1:51
Speaker 1: and it was this star studded Halloween party, like so
1:54
Speaker 1: many celebrities were there.
1:55
Speaker 2: It was Kate Hudson.
1:57
Speaker 1: And Olivia Munn and Rachel Zil, like, there were so
2:01
Speaker 1: many people. And as we're walking in, we wanted to
2:05
Speaker 1: get a photo. So Brooke turns around and says, Hi,
2:07
Speaker 1: can you please take a photo of us? And I'm
2:11
Speaker 1: like reaching for her, like with like a space jam
2:13
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan, I'm like no, because she asked Jessica Alba
2:18
Speaker 1: to take a photo of us. She has no idea
2:20
Speaker 1: who Jessica Alba is? So Jessica Alba takes a photo
2:22
Speaker 1: of us and Brooke looks at looks at the photo
2:25
Speaker 1: and she goes, m, it's not very good.
2:27
Speaker 2: Can you take it again?
2:29
Speaker 1: And everybody starts laughing She took it again. She has
2:33
Speaker 1: so many more stories that doesn't even scratch the surface.
2:37
Speaker 1: But one of my favorite things about Brooke is that
2:39
Speaker 1: even though she makes everyone laugh big, she loves really
2:42
Speaker 1: big too. Her heart is so soft. She's always growing
2:46
Speaker 1: and evolving and learning. She's the one that taught me
2:49
Speaker 1: about therapy. It's no wonder her practice as an RDN
2:52
Speaker 1: is called in the gray. Nothing is black and white.
2:55
Speaker 1: For her, everything is not just accepted, but it's celebrated.
3:00
Speaker 1: She loves our differences, both individually and collectively, and she
3:03
Speaker 1: has this very unique and rare way of making everyone
3:06
Speaker 1: feel like it's all okay. Our producer called me after
3:09
Speaker 1: this episode and said, you have to have brook back
3:11
Speaker 1: for an advice one. Like an advice episode. I need
3:14
Speaker 1: more of her and she's never said that before. I've
3:18
Speaker 1: always told Brooks she has to write a book or
3:19
Speaker 1: do a podcast, but she totally ignores me. So today
3:22
Speaker 1: is our version of that. I guess. I'm so excited
3:25
Speaker 1: that I get to share a brook with you. And
3:27
Speaker 1: before we get into it, if this episode makes you
3:29
Speaker 1: laugh or feel something, you just love it, please write
3:32
Speaker 1: a review or send the episode to a friend that
3:34
Speaker 1: you feel like will love it too. We've had so
3:37
Speaker 1: many new listeners lately. We use something called lipsyn, which
3:39
Speaker 1: is like the software that tracks our numbers, and we've
3:43
Speaker 1: had so many new people here. So if you're new,
3:46
Speaker 1: thank you, and if you've been rocking with us, thank you.
3:50
Speaker 1: I appreciate every single one of you. Okay, So, Brooke,
3:58
Speaker 1: this is a first for me too, because I've never
4:00
Speaker 1: interviewed a friend or family member, and as my first,
4:05
Speaker 1: I'm so excited it's you because you are one of
4:07
Speaker 1: my oldest and closest friends. I know so much about you.
4:12
Speaker 1: I want everyone listening because I know we're both a
4:14
Speaker 1: little nervous about this. I want to play an ice
4:18
Speaker 1: breaker game about me. Okay, okay, so you can hold like,
4:22
Speaker 1: don't hold back, Okay, not that you ever do. What's
4:27
Speaker 1: your least favorite thing that I've ever worn?
4:30
Speaker 2: A wearing?
4:30
Speaker 3: I mean, this is, okay, my least favorite thing you've
4:37
Speaker 3: ever worn?
4:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really I can't think right now, so I'm
4:40
Speaker 2: gonna go with this this jumper.
4:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like belted and short, and.
4:50
Speaker 2: I mean, to your.
4:51
Speaker 1: Credit, any person that's ever helped me clean out my
4:53
Speaker 1: closet is like, you have to get rid of this,
4:55
Speaker 1: and I refuse.
4:56
Speaker 3: Wow, So maybe this is you got to get your
4:58
Speaker 3: CPW down.
5:00
Speaker 1: What's my CPW your cost per wear?
5:02
Speaker 2: You've never heard of that.
5:04
Speaker 3: When you buy something, especially when it's expensive, you have
5:06
Speaker 3: to wear it a lot.
5:07
Speaker 2: So you get your CPW down.
5:09
Speaker 1: Oh I like the CPA. Yes, okay. What's your favorite
5:13
Speaker 1: thing about me?
5:13
Speaker 3: I love you so much. My favorite thing about Danielle.
5:19
Speaker 3: I mean, you just make everyone feel so special and
5:22
Speaker 3: you have such a beautiful way of listening to people
5:25
Speaker 3: and asking real questions and genuinely caring what they think.
5:30
Speaker 1: Do you ever get uncomfortable that your dad and I
5:32
Speaker 1: have a real friendship? No? I love it.
5:35
Speaker 2: I love it.
5:35
Speaker 3: I love One of my favorite things in the world
5:38
Speaker 3: is when friends of mine become friends with each other.
5:42
Speaker 3: And so you and my dad having your own friendship.
5:45
Speaker 2: Love it?
5:46
Speaker 1: Okay do we feel warmed up?
5:48
Speaker 2: Sure? That was the icebreak.
5:51
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think what else would be embarrassing for
5:55
Speaker 1: people to know about me. Why don't you tell everybody
5:58
Speaker 1: how we met?
6:00
Speaker 2: Really? Yeah?
6:01
Speaker 1: Okay, so Brooke is such a good storyteller. Thanks one
6:05
Speaker 1: of my favorite things about thank you. So.
6:07
Speaker 3: Growing up we went to all girls sleep away camp
6:10
Speaker 3: in Eagle River, Wisconsin, and from the ages nine to twelve,
6:15
Speaker 3: I was like the star camper. I was adorable and
6:18
Speaker 3: fun and everybody liked me.
6:20
Speaker 2: And then when I.
6:22
Speaker 3: Was twelve years old, this girl, Danielle Robey came and
6:26
Speaker 3: just blew me out of the water.
6:29
Speaker 2: Yes, and she was just more outgoing than me. Okay,
6:35
Speaker 2: that's not true. Yeah.
6:38
Speaker 1: No, you say that I was nicer than you. No,
6:40
Speaker 1: I say that you were cut than me, but not
6:42
Speaker 1: as cool.
6:45
Speaker 3: And nicer than me, which always goes a long way.
6:48
Speaker 3: And by the end of that summer it was like
6:51
Speaker 3: broke who and Danielle was the star.
6:53
Speaker 1: Not the truth. But I love you, Okay. So now
6:57
Speaker 1: that we've done that, I know a lot about you.
6:59
Speaker 1: You love you love your family, You love to hike
7:04
Speaker 1: hikes that I will never go on with you. And
7:06
Speaker 1: you love food. You love really great restaurants and good food.
7:09
Speaker 1: But you didn't always love food.
7:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, So when I was in seventh grade, my family
7:15
Speaker 3: moved and I had to go to a new school,
7:17
Speaker 3: and I was super nervous about being the new kid.
7:20
Speaker 3: So I went on a diet, thinking that if I
7:22
Speaker 3: lost some weight, I would feel more comfortable in my body,
7:25
Speaker 3: because diet culture tells us that the thinner we are,
7:29
Speaker 3: the more accepted we're going to be, and the more
7:31
Speaker 3: comfortable and confident we're going to feel in the world.
7:34
Speaker 3: And I ended up taking that diet way too far
7:37
Speaker 3: and developed a full blown eating disorder.
7:40
Speaker 2: And the next year a friend of mine's.
7:43
Speaker 3: Mom, who was an exercise physiologist and she was recovered
7:46
Speaker 3: from her own eating disorder, confronted me that I had
7:49
Speaker 3: a problem, and she helped me eat more and gain weight.
7:53
Speaker 2: And she was this amazing woman.
7:55
Speaker 3: Who was so full of life, and she told me
7:58
Speaker 3: every day of our life work together that confidence is
8:02
Speaker 3: the sexiest thing that anyone can have, and she really
8:05
Speaker 3: had it. So she helped me gain to a healthy
8:08
Speaker 3: weight and I maintained there.
8:10
Speaker 2: Throughout high school.
8:11
Speaker 3: So I thought I was better for my eating disorder,
8:14
Speaker 3: and I went to college and I majored in nutrition, honestly,
8:18
Speaker 3: because I was still really preoccupied with food, and after college,
8:22
Speaker 3: I did a graduate program to become a registered dietitian
8:25
Speaker 3: and then I moved to la And when I moved here,
8:28
Speaker 3: I started working at an eating disorder treatment center because
8:32
Speaker 3: I really wanted to help people and make a difference
8:34
Speaker 3: in people's lives the way that Marla had helped me
8:37
Speaker 3: and changed mine.
8:39
Speaker 2: And so I started working at this clinic.
8:41
Speaker 3: And it was interesting because when I got there, I
8:43
Speaker 3: realized that I wasn't fully recovered for my eating disorder,
8:47
Speaker 3: and I was still struggling with disordered thoughts and behaviors
8:51
Speaker 3: around food. I still labeled food as good and bad
8:55
Speaker 3: and felt guilty for eating quote unquote bad foods.
8:58
Speaker 2: I would never eat bread form the bread basket.
9:01
Speaker 3: It was hard for me to order off a menu
9:03
Speaker 3: as is, and I just kind of thought that these.
9:06
Speaker 2: Were normal things.
9:08
Speaker 3: And when I started working at the clinic and I
9:10
Speaker 3: saw the way that we taught the patients how to eat,
9:13
Speaker 3: that was the final piece for me to truly heal
9:16
Speaker 3: my own relationship with food.
9:18
Speaker 2: So that was in two.
9:19
Speaker 3: Thousand and nine, and I've been fully recovered since then,
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Speaker 3: and I've been helping other people do the same thing
9:26
Speaker 3: and really heal their relationship with food as well.
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Speaker 1: And did you ever to call Marla and tell her?
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Speaker 2: Of course, so Marla was.
9:33
Speaker 3: I mean, it was funny because the same way that
9:35
Speaker 3: you're friends with my dad, I was friends with Melanie's mom,
9:40
Speaker 3: and so me and Marla had this beautiful connection and
9:44
Speaker 3: she was just someone that was special to me throughout
9:47
Speaker 3: my whole life. And so when I started working at
9:49
Speaker 3: the eating disorder clinic, I was so proud and excited
9:53
Speaker 3: to call her and tell her that I was helping
9:55
Speaker 3: people the same way she helped me. And it was
9:57
Speaker 3: really sad because she was diagnosed with care answer and
10:01
Speaker 3: when I spoke to her, she was in the hospital
10:03
Speaker 3: and she reassured me and said, no one has ever
10:05
Speaker 3: seen anyone do this many push ups in their hospital
10:09
Speaker 3: in their gown on the oncology unit.
10:11
Speaker 2: For I'm here, don't worry. Everything's okay.
10:14
Speaker 3: And unfortunately, she took a turn for the worst and
10:17
Speaker 3: ended up passing away around ten years ago.
10:20
Speaker 2: And I've continued to just.
10:22
Speaker 3: Live on her legacy and live with the confidence that
10:25
Speaker 3: she taught me and the Jois de Ville that she
10:28
Speaker 3: had since then.
10:29
Speaker 1: Will you really do that? And so anytime I introduce
10:33
Speaker 1: you to new friends that I have. Almost immediately they
10:37
Speaker 1: either say it to your face or they say it
10:38
Speaker 1: to me later, like how does she have that confidence?
10:42
Speaker 1: Where does it come from? So I think it's nice
10:45
Speaker 1: to hear that you kind of channel Marla.
10:47
Speaker 3: Yeah.
10:47
Speaker 2: Way, yeah it does.
10:49
Speaker 1: From now on, you could tell everybody that. Yeah. So
10:52
Speaker 1: when I started this podcast, I talked about the name
10:55
Speaker 1: a lot pretty smart and why I called it that,
10:58
Speaker 1: And it was because I read this book, Beauty Sick,
11:01
Speaker 1: and at the beginning, the author, with doctor Renee engelsites
11:03
Speaker 1: the study that fifty four percent of women would rather
11:06
Speaker 1: be hit by a truck than considered fat.
11:08
Speaker 2: Wow.
11:09
Speaker 1: And it's a crazy statistic. When I read it, I mean,
11:13
Speaker 1: you know this, but I definitely struggled with disordered eating.
11:16
Speaker 1: And so when I read that statistic, my heart sunk
11:19
Speaker 1: because if you'd ask me in high school, I think
11:22
Speaker 1: I would have said hit by a truck.
11:23
Speaker 2: Wow.
11:25
Speaker 1: Now thankfully I don't have that outlook. But you really
11:28
Speaker 1: teach me. Even though I feel recovered, you still teach
11:31
Speaker 1: me a lot. And sometimes you say that my language
11:35
Speaker 1: on body positivity and food is not always correct. So
11:40
Speaker 1: in this interview, I want to give you free rein
11:42
Speaker 1: to critique me because I might not say things right.
11:44
Speaker 2: Thank you, and it's okay.
11:46
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's so normalized to talk about
11:49
Speaker 3: food and dieting and bodies through the lens of diet culture.
11:53
Speaker 3: It's so pervasive, and it's really hard to know the
11:57
Speaker 3: quote unquote right thing to say all the time.
12:00
Speaker 1: Thank you, but you expand my mind in my heart.
12:02
Speaker 2: So it's really nice.
12:03
Speaker 1: I feel lucky that I have a friend who's so smart.
12:06
Speaker 3: Mean too for your makeup to her, that's awesome.
12:14
Speaker 1: People often speak about a relationship with food. Why do
12:20
Speaker 1: you think it's called a relationship?
12:22
Speaker 3: Well, I think that food is so much more than
12:25
Speaker 3: energy or fuel. Food is friendship and family and culture
12:31
Speaker 3: and religion and memories and fun, and so I think that,
12:37
Speaker 3: you know, food is a relationship that you have with
12:39
Speaker 3: yourself and that you channel with other people. And so
12:43
Speaker 3: often it's interesting to see the ways that our relationship
12:46
Speaker 3: with food mirrors our relationship to other things in the world.
12:49
Speaker 2: What do you mean, Often when.
12:51
Speaker 3: People are restrictive with food, they're restrictive with other things
12:55
Speaker 3: like fun or with money, and.
12:58
Speaker 2: So yeah, stay more, keep going. And so you know
13:02
Speaker 2: the way.
13:02
Speaker 3: That my favorite Peloton instructor Justim says, how you do
13:06
Speaker 3: anything is how you do everything, and I love that.
13:10
Speaker 3: And it really applies to this as well, that people
13:14
Speaker 3: that are restrictive with food are restrictive with fun, or
13:18
Speaker 3: restrictive with really sharing their feelings, or restrictive with how
13:21
Speaker 3: they spend money or how they spend their time.
13:25
Speaker 1: I think I was more restrictive in everything when I
13:28
Speaker 1: was restrictive with food.
13:29
Speaker 2: YEP, it's not uncommon.
13:31
Speaker 1: So there's a bunch of different philosophies on food.
13:35
Speaker 2: What do you practice?
13:36
Speaker 3: So I practice a philosophy called intuitive eating and intuitive
13:40
Speaker 3: eating is an approach to food that was actually started
13:44
Speaker 3: here in LA in nineteen ninety five by two non
13:47
Speaker 3: diet dietitians, and intuitive eating has nothing to do with
13:52
Speaker 3: deprivation or discipline or dieting.
13:55
Speaker 2: Intuitive eating basically says that.
13:57
Speaker 3: We're all born with an internal wisdom to be intuitive eaters.
14:02
Speaker 2: So if you look at a.
14:03
Speaker 3: Baby, they know when they're hungry, they know when they're full,
14:06
Speaker 3: and they eat when they're hungry and stop when they're full.
14:08
Speaker 3: And at some point throughout our development, we lose touch
14:12
Speaker 3: with our bodies internal wisdom because we start listening to
14:15
Speaker 3: and relying on external factors like parents or diet culture
14:20
Speaker 3: or diets or friends that tell you what, when, and
14:24
Speaker 3: how much to eat. So intuitive eating it's a philosophy
14:28
Speaker 3: that has ten principles, and each of those principles help
14:32
Speaker 3: guide your food choices so that you can get back
14:35
Speaker 3: in touch with your body's internal wisdom. And so intuitive eating.
14:40
Speaker 3: A lot of people think that, like, if I were
14:42
Speaker 3: to eat intuitively, I would just eat cookies or cupcakes
14:45
Speaker 3: all day, and that you would gravitate towards the foods
14:47
Speaker 3: that are the most delicious.
14:49
Speaker 2: But it's not true.
14:50
Speaker 3: Intuitive eating combines your knowledge about food with.
14:54
Speaker 2: Your instinct and your emotions.
14:57
Speaker 3: So that you can really learn about yourself and your
14:59
Speaker 3: body and make the right choices for you.
15:02
Speaker 1: You wouldn't want cupcakes all day. That's not what your
15:04
Speaker 1: body would create exactly. Yeah. So one of the things
15:09
Speaker 1: about intuitive eating that I hear is like, for instance,
15:13
Speaker 1: my dad will make a joke. He's like, I don't
15:16
Speaker 1: know when I'm full, Like, my body doesn't tell my brain,
15:19
Speaker 1: So how do you know when you're full?
15:22
Speaker 2: Well, it's a practice, you know.
15:24
Speaker 3: Intuitive eating is a practice, and each of the ten
15:27
Speaker 3: principles come with a lot of tools and exercises and
15:31
Speaker 3: things that you can do to become more in touch
15:33
Speaker 3: with your body. Yeah, And so oftentimes people aren't in
15:36
Speaker 3: touch with their body signals like hunger or fullness because
15:39
Speaker 3: they've been ignoring them for so long. And so if
15:42
Speaker 3: you've moved through life not stopping when you're full or
15:45
Speaker 3: not eating when you're hungry, oftentimes those signals kind of
15:48
Speaker 3: shut off.
15:49
Speaker 1: And you can rewire them, yep.
15:51
Speaker 3: And so an awesome way to rewire your body is
15:55
Speaker 3: I often start with hunger and is getting You know,
15:57
Speaker 3: a lot of times people don't realize that they're hungry
16:02
Speaker 3: either because they wait until they're ravenous to eat, and
16:06
Speaker 3: then if you go into a meal starving, you're way
16:08
Speaker 3: more likely to eat until you're stuffed, or they ignore
16:12
Speaker 3: their hunger signals altogether and over time. Again, it takes
16:16
Speaker 3: energy for your stomach to tell your brain that it's hungry,
16:19
Speaker 3: and so if you always ignore that signal, your stomach's like,
16:23
Speaker 3: why am I going to waste energy telling you that
16:25
Speaker 3: you're hungry if you're not going to listen anyway. And
16:28
Speaker 3: so the way that we can turn back on your
16:31
Speaker 3: hunger signals is by eating regularly. So I often tell
16:35
Speaker 3: people to eat within an hour of waking up, not
16:38
Speaker 3: let more than three to four hours go between eating.
16:41
Speaker 3: Once you wait five hours between a meal, your primal
16:44
Speaker 3: hunger kicks in. So that's when it's really difficult to
16:47
Speaker 3: be mindful about food choices or eat slowly because we're
16:51
Speaker 3: animals and you're just going to be starving and your
16:54
Speaker 3: body's going to want as much food and energy as possible.
16:58
Speaker 3: So eating regularly out the day is what will rewire
17:02
Speaker 3: your body to get used to being fed regularly and
17:06
Speaker 3: then in turn tell you that it's hungry regularly.
17:09
Speaker 1: So Brooke and I share a lot of things. One
17:12
Speaker 1: of the things we share is we hate anything with
17:14
Speaker 1: the word skinny in it, like no Shade, but like
17:18
Speaker 1: any podcast, any company, anything, any book with the word skinny.
17:22
Speaker 1: We're both like, eh, yep. We also hate the word diet. Yes,
17:26
Speaker 1: tell me why you hate that word and also why
17:30
Speaker 1: being restricted like actually doesn't work.
17:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, So diets don't work.
17:35
Speaker 3: Statistically, ninety five percent of all diets fail and ninety
17:41
Speaker 3: five percent of people gain back all the weight that
17:43
Speaker 3: they lost on their diet within a three year period.
17:46
Speaker 2: And it was no fun along the way, it's no fun.
17:49
Speaker 3: And it's the reason why diets don't work is they're unsustainable.
17:53
Speaker 2: You know.
17:53
Speaker 3: So diets tell you to restrict calories or carbohydrates, and
17:57
Speaker 3: our bodies need calories and carbs, so if we go
18:01
Speaker 3: a period without them, our survival instincts will kick in
18:06
Speaker 3: and will end up overeating or binging, often on the
18:09
Speaker 3: things that you weren't allowed to eat when you were
18:11
Speaker 3: on the diet, and then you end up This is
18:14
Speaker 3: where like the emotional harm of dieting comes in, is
18:18
Speaker 3: that when you quote unquote fail on your diet, you
18:21
Speaker 3: blame yourself and say that you don't have the self
18:24
Speaker 3: discipline or you weren't good enough at following this diet,
18:28
Speaker 3: instead of recognizing that the diet actually failed you. And
18:33
Speaker 3: then people end up going and looking for the next
18:36
Speaker 3: diet exactly. And the answer isn't in finding the next diet,
18:41
Speaker 3: it's in rejecting the idea that dieting is the answer.
18:45
Speaker 2: Have you been on? Do you diet?
18:47
Speaker 1: I used to when I was a kid. I remember
18:50
Speaker 1: in eighth grade dieting all throughout high school. I was
18:53
Speaker 1: always like I wouldn't tell anybody, but in my mind
18:56
Speaker 1: I was counting calories like a crazy person. Wow, and
18:59
Speaker 1: in call. But I actually met somebody in La, I
19:05
Speaker 1: think two or three years into being in La who
19:08
Speaker 1: was a holistic chef, and she gave me cooking lessons
19:12
Speaker 1: and it totally changed the way that I perceived food
19:15
Speaker 1: because I'd never fed myself before, which sounds wild, yeah,
19:19
Speaker 1: but food to me started meaning different things. And so
19:23
Speaker 1: I actually haven't counted a calorie since, haven't like I
19:26
Speaker 1: go on a scale once in a while, don't really care.
19:29
Speaker 1: And the quality of my life, I don't even have
19:32
Speaker 1: words for how it has improved my life.
19:35
Speaker 2: It improves everything.
19:36
Speaker 1: It improved everything, yep, yep.
19:38
Speaker 3: And again like then that's where you see how your
19:41
Speaker 3: relationship to food mirrors your relationship to life because your
19:44
Speaker 3: relationships get better. You know, your meals out with friends
19:48
Speaker 3: are more fun, vacations are better. Everything's better when you're
19:51
Speaker 3: not preoccupied with food.
19:56
Speaker 1: This podcast is sponsored by Betterhelp. Do I ever feel fatigued,
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22:08
Speaker 1: If you don't know where to start, better help is
22:11
Speaker 1: a great place. I think back, and I'm so bummed
22:17
Speaker 1: that I ever made decisions in my life based on food.
22:21
Speaker 1: Like I would think about vacations and I was like, well,
22:24
Speaker 1: I don't want to go to that place because there's
22:26
Speaker 1: no gym. I can't like, you know, all these things
22:29
Speaker 1: you're probably not supposed to share because it's no and no.
22:32
Speaker 3: I think it's I mean, I think that it humanizes it,
22:34
Speaker 3: and I think a lot of people can relate to
22:36
Speaker 3: things like that. Like Danielle and I went to University
22:39
Speaker 3: of Wisconsin and it's a big ten school and it's
22:42
Speaker 3: so fun to go to the football games. Well, I
22:44
Speaker 3: would go to the gym during football games because it
22:47
Speaker 3: was the time that it was the most quiet and
22:49
Speaker 3: I can use the equipment that I wanted.
22:51
Speaker 2: And looking back on.
22:52
Speaker 3: It, it makes me really sad that I didn't participate
22:55
Speaker 3: in that really fun part of college because I was
22:58
Speaker 3: hanging out with my eating disorder.
23:00
Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting, you were hanging out with your eating disorder.
23:03
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's that. I say that a lot
23:05
Speaker 3: with people that I work with. You know that it's
23:08
Speaker 3: sad to think about the places that we have brought
23:11
Speaker 3: our eating disorders or disordered eating. I brought my eating
23:14
Speaker 3: disorder to camp one summer.
23:17
Speaker 2: I did, and like, looking back, it was really sad.
23:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is, yeah, because there is so many fun
23:22
Speaker 3: s'mores and things that we did at camp around food
23:25
Speaker 3: that I wasn't able to be a part of.
23:28
Speaker 1: I brought mine to camp one year or two. I
23:30
Speaker 1: would never eat the grilled cheese I missed out. It
23:34
Speaker 1: was delicious. Okay, So this was really interesting. The research
23:39
Speaker 1: says that between ages five to nine, forty percent of
23:42
Speaker 1: girls say they wish they were thinner. One third of
23:45
Speaker 1: third grade girls report that they are always afraid of
23:48
Speaker 1: becoming fat. This sort of like psychology and culture of
23:52
Speaker 1: thinness is so pervasive and starts so young, yep, in
23:57
Speaker 1: developed countries. How can you get to a point where
24:03
Speaker 1: you say, I accept my body, I love my body,
24:05
Speaker 1: and I feel good.
24:07
Speaker 3: It's a great question, and again it's a journey, you know,
24:11
Speaker 3: and so part of it and a practice that it's
24:14
Speaker 3: not something that just happens overnight. The same way that
24:16
Speaker 3: you practice what you want to get good at, that
24:19
Speaker 3: you have to practice.
24:20
Speaker 2: Self love and self acceptance. There's some awesome books and podcasts.
24:25
Speaker 1: It's a lifelong journey. But you really believe that it
24:28
Speaker 1: can get better, is what I'm meaning.
24:29
Speaker 2: I do believe that it can get better.
24:31
Speaker 3: And I think that a big part of what you're
24:33
Speaker 3: saying is something is diet culture. And so diet culture
24:38
Speaker 3: is the system of beliefs that values thinness and appearance
24:42
Speaker 3: over health and well being. So diet culture normalizes restricting calories,
24:48
Speaker 3: it normalizes the constant pursuit of weight loss and fear
24:52
Speaker 3: of weight gain.
24:53
Speaker 2: It's basically that thing.
24:55
Speaker 3: That all those little girls were told to feel and
24:58
Speaker 3: believe that they'd rather get hip a truck than be fat,
25:02
Speaker 3: or that they're never going to be okay or good.
25:04
Speaker 2: Enough in their body.
25:05
Speaker 1: What I found interesting too, is both of the studies
25:08
Speaker 1: say have a fear of food and afraid of becoming fat.
25:12
Speaker 1: So the word fear is in both of them. It's
25:14
Speaker 1: just a fear around food.
25:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, in.
25:17
Speaker 3: Diet culture isn't necessarily a fear of food. It's a
25:21
Speaker 3: system of beliefs that's really easy to get lost in.
25:25
Speaker 3: So you don't necessarily need to be on a diet
25:27
Speaker 3: to be caught up in the culture of dieting. So
25:30
Speaker 3: you can get lost in the idea that thin equals healthy,
25:34
Speaker 3: or that if you lose weight you're going to get
25:36
Speaker 3: that thing in your life that you haven't been able
25:38
Speaker 3: to get yet, or that eating certain ways is good
25:42
Speaker 3: and other ways is bad, or that you know. And
25:46
Speaker 3: this one's big is that it's okay to stigmatize people
25:49
Speaker 3: that don't fit this one way, this one definition of
25:52
Speaker 3: health or one view of health.
25:55
Speaker 1: So can we talk about what happens when we're in
25:58
Speaker 1: groups with people and diet culture comes up, Because you
26:02
Speaker 1: and I have talked about this offline, but you're really
26:05
Speaker 1: comfortable with I don't know what the word is, like confrontation, confrontation, Yeah,
26:11
Speaker 1: you're comfortable saying like no, I don't agree with that,
26:15
Speaker 1: and I'm less comfortable like I would if somebody said
26:18
Speaker 1: something that I didn't like, I would just like about
26:20
Speaker 1: diet culture had kind of like just move on. And
26:23
Speaker 1: I really value that in you because inside it pisses
26:26
Speaker 1: me off. So when we're in a group of people
26:29
Speaker 1: and somebody starts talking about their weight or the way
26:33
Speaker 1: they look, and it makes you uncomfortable, what do you say?
26:35
Speaker 3: Well, I think that we have to be agents of change,
26:39
Speaker 3: like we're here in this for me, like, my purpose
26:43
Speaker 3: in life is to help people recognize and dismantle diet
26:47
Speaker 3: culture and to help people just shut up talking about
26:52
Speaker 3: their diet or their food rules or how quote unquote
26:55
Speaker 3: bad they were today. And so when I hear people
26:58
Speaker 3: talking about it, it is something that I've continued to
27:02
Speaker 3: practice to do more gently.
27:05
Speaker 2: What did you yell at me?
27:06
Speaker 1: What time?
27:06
Speaker 3: So, Danielle, I got the biggest thing we've ever yes,
27:13
Speaker 3: And it lasted about a day. But still I felt
27:16
Speaker 3: embarrassed because I attacked Danielle because she said that skittles
27:22
Speaker 3: are the worst thing in the world that anyone could eat.
27:25
Speaker 1: No, Dane saddles were worse than pretzels or something.
27:30
Speaker 3: No, maybe you said that skittles are worse than Snickers
27:33
Speaker 3: because at least snickers have some protein in it.
27:36
Speaker 1: Oh, that's what I said, Okay, And to me.
27:38
Speaker 3: When you're choosing what candy you want to eat, you're
27:41
Speaker 3: not choosing the candy for its nutritional value. You're choosing
27:45
Speaker 3: what candy you want to eat because of the taste and.
27:48
Speaker 2: What you're in the mood for.
27:49
Speaker 1: Totally, and so that you were one hundred percent.
27:52
Speaker 2: Right, thank you.
27:53
Speaker 3: But I think it's interesting because diet culture keeps us
27:57
Speaker 3: in that space to think, well, what's better and what's
28:00
Speaker 3: a what's the best candy choice because it's going to
28:03
Speaker 3: give me some protein, And that when we label food
28:06
Speaker 3: as good, bad, right, wrong, healthy, unhealthy, we end up
28:10
Speaker 3: feeling good or bad or right or wrong about ourselves
28:14
Speaker 3: when we eat food. And so I'm not here saying
28:17
Speaker 3: that you know, snickers and skittles and carrots have the
28:22
Speaker 3: same nutritional value. I definitely understand that you're going to
28:26
Speaker 3: get different nutrients from each of those foods, But the
28:29
Speaker 3: value that we put into those foods should be equal.
28:33
Speaker 3: We have to level the moral playing fields when it
28:36
Speaker 3: comes to food.
28:37
Speaker 1: So take the morality out of food. Yep, I really
28:40
Speaker 1: have learned that from you, and I love that there's
28:43
Speaker 1: nothing that's good or bad, it just is.
28:45
Speaker 2: And has that actually worked.
28:46
Speaker 1: For you, Yeah, very much so, because I think even
28:49
Speaker 1: though I felt recovered, there was like pizza to me
28:52
Speaker 1: was bad. I was like I was being bad today.
28:55
Speaker 1: Now I don't care at all. I don't even think
28:57
Speaker 1: about it.
28:58
Speaker 2: And how did you get there?
29:00
Speaker 1: I think it was slowly. I don't know how I
29:03
Speaker 1: got there. A lot. That's what I feel confused about
29:06
Speaker 1: with food, to be honest, is a lot of times
29:08
Speaker 1: the things I think I improve upon, I don't know
29:11
Speaker 1: how it happened. Well.
29:12
Speaker 3: I think again that it goes back to that practice piece.
29:16
Speaker 3: And I also think that food is nuanced. You know,
29:19
Speaker 3: it's not concrete. It's ever changing our relationship with food,
29:23
Speaker 3: what we're craving, how we're feeling, and so it's difficult
29:27
Speaker 3: to pinpoint and say, oh, this is exactly what it was.
29:30
Speaker 2: I think that it's throughout the practice.
29:34
Speaker 3: Being open to honoring your cravings, eating pizza and seeing
29:38
Speaker 3: how you feel having maybe too much pizza and feeling
29:41
Speaker 3: too full and feeling guilty, and then the next time
29:44
Speaker 3: doing it differently where you have less pizza and maybe
29:46
Speaker 3: you have veggies or salad on the side.
29:48
Speaker 1: Yeah. I also think now that we're talking about it,
29:51
Speaker 1: being around people who are comfortable with feelings with food,
29:55
Speaker 1: with nuance with all those things also helps.
29:59
Speaker 3: For sure, for sure, because again, diet culture is contagious,
30:03
Speaker 3: you know, So when you're around people that are talking
30:05
Speaker 3: shit about their body, which I call body bashing, or
30:09
Speaker 3: saying bad things about food, it invites other people to
30:13
Speaker 3: come in and do the same. So the more that again,
30:15
Speaker 3: in order to be these agents of change, that we
30:17
Speaker 3: can be good role models for normal eating and also
30:20
Speaker 3: not talking about food in that way, I really think
30:23
Speaker 3: we can change the world.
30:25
Speaker 1: I agree. So I want to know what your personal
30:29
Speaker 1: relationship with food is.
30:30
Speaker 3: Like, I'm an intuitive eater. I eat when I'm hungry.
30:34
Speaker 3: For the most part. I eat when i'm hungry, I
30:36
Speaker 3: stop when i'm full. I pay attention to honoring my
30:40
Speaker 3: cravings again, because if I don't eat what I want,
30:44
Speaker 3: I just never stop thinking about that food. I don't
30:46
Speaker 3: cut anything out of my diet again because I struggled
30:50
Speaker 3: with my eating disorder. If I cut out bread, for example,
30:54
Speaker 3: I'm just dreaming and obsessing about bread, and so I
30:57
Speaker 3: trust my I also trust my body.
31:00
Speaker 2: I trust that my body is.
31:02
Speaker 3: Going to ask for what it needs, and I trust
31:04
Speaker 3: that my body knows what to do with the food
31:06
Speaker 3: that I give it. So I'm really I'm an intuitive
31:09
Speaker 3: and natural eater, and sometimes I overeat and sometimes I
31:13
Speaker 3: eat emotionally. And also I again, I trust my body,
31:16
Speaker 3: so I know that that's okay.
31:17
Speaker 1: Sometimes do you ever have feelings of disordered eating that
31:21
Speaker 1: creep back in.
31:23
Speaker 3: I sometimes will have a day where I don't feel
31:26
Speaker 3: great in my body, but I don't act on it.
31:31
Speaker 3: And in terms of disordered thoughts around food and what
31:35
Speaker 3: I'm eating, not really, because again I know that I
31:38
Speaker 3: can trust my body.
31:40
Speaker 1: What do you think are three pragmatic change?
31:42
Speaker 2: Wait?
31:42
Speaker 3: Can I interrupt for one second? I just remembered the
31:45
Speaker 3: worst outfit you've ever worn?
31:50
Speaker 1: Well, now you have to tell us, So what's to
31:51
Speaker 1: tell me?
31:52
Speaker 2: Okay? So one night I'm.
31:54
Speaker 1: Scared we will know the worst out it I've ever worn.
31:58
Speaker 3: So one night we went to dinner group of friends.
32:00
Speaker 3: We went to Crags and Craigs. Is this really happening
32:03
Speaker 3: place in West Hollywood?
32:05
Speaker 2: And it was a Thursday night and so fun.
32:07
Speaker 1: By the way, Thursday night at Craigs, Like George Clooney's
32:10
Speaker 1: been there, It's like so cool.
32:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really fun LA moment. And Danielle shows
32:16
Speaker 3: up wearing a skirt, like a tight little skirt.
32:20
Speaker 1: A leather mini skirt.
32:22
Speaker 2: Were you were in a blazer and running shoes?
32:25
Speaker 1: Okay, person all, they weren't running shoes, they were like sneakers, okay.
32:30
Speaker 3: And it looked like Danielle was on break at work
32:33
Speaker 3: and like power walking around the neighborhood.
32:36
Speaker 1: Our friend, the AJ said, I looked like I was
32:38
Speaker 1: in HR.
32:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we named we changed your name to Donna
32:41
Speaker 3: from HR for the rest of the night.
32:43
Speaker 1: Years later, I still haven't lived. You're right, that is
32:45
Speaker 1: by far.
32:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've ever worn.
32:47
Speaker 1: That's okay, back too, I'm sweating now. Okay. What are
32:56
Speaker 1: three pragmatic changes that we can make to improve our
33:00
Speaker 1: relationship with food?
33:02
Speaker 2: That's a great question. I think that one is morality, right.
33:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, one is taking the judgment out of food. So
33:11
Speaker 3: getting back to that place where you notice when you
33:14
Speaker 3: label food as good or bad and stop doing that.
33:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and.
33:19
Speaker 3: So stop labeling food as good and bad. Know that again,
33:23
Speaker 3: you're not a good or bad person based on your
33:26
Speaker 3: food choices. Another would be being a good role model,
33:31
Speaker 3: being that person that doesn't talk about food in a
33:34
Speaker 3: negative way, that eats and even if you're not eating
33:37
Speaker 3: something right now, that's okay, don't talk about it.
33:40
Speaker 1: Because it's annoying.
33:41
Speaker 2: It's it is annoying, and it can be triggering for
33:44
Speaker 2: other people.
33:45
Speaker 3: You know that they could start to feel bad that
33:47
Speaker 3: they shouldn't be eating gluten either, whatever it is that
33:49
Speaker 3: that person's cutting out. I always say, stop weighing yourself,
33:53
Speaker 3: and I know that you said sometimes you weigh yourself
33:55
Speaker 3: and it feels okay. I think that when you weigh yourself,
33:58
Speaker 3: it gives you this number, and so often people conflate
34:02
Speaker 3: their worth and their weight, and so stop weighing yourself
34:07
Speaker 3: is a big one for me, but I understand that
34:10
Speaker 3: everybody's different.
34:11
Speaker 1: Because of what you taught me about not using the scale.
34:14
Speaker 1: We're creating a pretty smart Brooklazer card that you can
34:17
Speaker 1: take to your doctor's office. So will you explain what
34:19
Speaker 1: it is?
34:20
Speaker 2: Sure?
34:20
Speaker 3: So this is a card that you would bring to
34:22
Speaker 3: your doctor's office, and it basically has information about why
34:26
Speaker 3: you're requesting not to know your weight from your doctor
34:29
Speaker 3: or not to be weight at all. And so what
34:32
Speaker 3: this is kind of pushing for is something called weight
34:34
Speaker 3: neutral medicine, and weight neutral medicine means that we're not
34:38
Speaker 3: focusing on weight or weight loss as markers of health,
34:42
Speaker 3: and instead we're focusing on blood values, behaviors, other ways
34:46
Speaker 3: that we can know if someone's taking care of themselves
34:48
Speaker 3: or not, and so on the card, it's basically explaining
34:52
Speaker 3: that and saying that you would prefer not to be
34:55
Speaker 3: weighed unless it's truly medically necessary, and that really is
34:59
Speaker 3: only the case rarely.
35:01
Speaker 1: You can also get weighed and just have them not
35:03
Speaker 1: tell you exactly right exactly so you have it on
35:05
Speaker 1: your chart if you want. All right, we have just
35:08
Speaker 1: a rapid fire left. That was so fun and yeah,
35:16
Speaker 1: what do you really wish people knew about food? Something
35:18
Speaker 1: quick that you could impart on us?
35:19
Speaker 3: Okay, So the more that you really let yourself eat
35:23
Speaker 3: food and foods that you enjoy, the less your brain
35:26
Speaker 3: will desire them.
35:27
Speaker 1: It's really true. Yep, that happened to me, me too, really, Yeah,
35:32
Speaker 1: what's the best advice anybody's given you.
35:35
Speaker 3: When I moved to La, I was so lucky because
35:38
Speaker 3: the first person that I met professionally was Elise Rash,
35:42
Speaker 3: who wrote the book.
35:42
Speaker 2: Intuitive Eating Wow.
35:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, And she said to me, Oh, why don't you
35:47
Speaker 3: go work at that eating disorder clinic? And I said okay,
35:50
Speaker 3: And I got there and I told them I was
35:52
Speaker 3: recovered from my eating disorder, which we now know wasn't
35:54
Speaker 3: the case. I was in recovery and on my journey,
35:58
Speaker 3: but working at the clinic just changed my whole life
36:00
Speaker 3: personally and professionally.
36:03
Speaker 1: What's one tool that everyone can use to be as
36:06
Speaker 1: confident as Brook?
36:08
Speaker 3: Channel your inner Marla, look in the mirror each day
36:11
Speaker 3: and remind yourself that confidence is the sexiest thing that
36:15
Speaker 3: anyone can have.
36:16
Speaker 1: It's really true.
36:17
Speaker 2: I agree.
36:18
Speaker 1: One thing that you really love about yourself, I mean.
36:22
Speaker 2: Everything, Just so everybody knows.
36:25
Speaker 1: Brooke and I dress up for Halloween one year and
36:28
Speaker 1: Brooke wore a T shirt that says I Love Brooke.
36:31
Speaker 2: I went as my own biggest fan.
36:32
Speaker 1: Yeah. What's one thing you're working on?
36:38
Speaker 3: I'm working on things like this, coming on podcasts and
36:41
Speaker 3: going to dinners and really speaking what I believe about
36:46
Speaker 3: food and nutrition and diet culture and making change.
36:50
Speaker 2: So thank you for having me here.
36:52
Speaker 3: It felt really special to be able to practice here
36:54
Speaker 3: with you.
36:55
Speaker 1: You are so awesome. What is one book that has
36:57
Speaker 1: changed your life?
36:59
Speaker 2: Well, I want to say and who it of eating?
37:01
Speaker 3: But I am such a big reader, and I recently
37:06
Speaker 3: read a book called one hundred Suns that was super interesting.
37:10
Speaker 2: It was about should I go into what it was about?
37:14
Speaker 2: I'll give away the end.
37:15
Speaker 1: I know, because you're always like, what should I read?
37:18
Speaker 1: Because you know I love books too, and you and
37:20
Speaker 1: I like the most different books. A novel and I
37:23
Speaker 1: love a self help book, I.
37:25
Speaker 2: Love a novel.
37:26
Speaker 3: And right now, because everyone in my family gets the
37:29
Speaker 3: same books on our kindles sent to us, I've just
37:32
Speaker 3: picked up Seth Rogan's Year Book because it was on there.
37:36
Speaker 2: It is funny. It's funny.
37:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, we do a pretty smart question from the
37:41
Speaker 1: question everything card deck, So this is sort of an
37:43
Speaker 1: interesting The one.
37:44
Speaker 2: I picked for you is I thought I pick it
37:46
Speaker 2: for myself, you do.
37:47
Speaker 1: But I forgot the card dock. I ran out of
37:51
Speaker 1: my house real quick. What's something that you wish people
37:54
Speaker 1: knew about you that they don't see it first.
37:55
Speaker 2: Glance, my gigantic heart.
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Speaker 3: I think that I come and I lead with my
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Speaker 3: confidence and with humor, and sometimes I'm abrasive, rash. No,
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Speaker 3: I'm direct, and I think that when you really get
38:17
Speaker 3: to know me, you know that I'm super sensitive and.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah I co say that.
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Speaker 2: Thank you.
38:24
Speaker 1: Okay, this is the last question. What's the smartest decision
38:27
Speaker 1: you've ever made?
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Speaker 3: Well, I feel like it's a pretty smart cliche that
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Speaker 3: a lot of guests say this, but moving to La really, yeah,
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Speaker 3: it changed my whole life. Thank you for having me.
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Speaker 3: I love you, oh my love.
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Speaker 2: All Right, today is a good day. To have a
39:08
Speaker 2: good day.
39:09
Speaker 1: I'll see you next week. Hmm.