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How to Survive a Bad Manager (Or Stop Being One) - Workplace Dilemmas · Not All Business

0:00
Welcome to Not All Business, a podcast by two former CEO's who
0:04
went from competitors to friends.
0:07
I'm Blakely Graham and my Co host is Heather Cooper, and we
0:10
are joined by our producer, the unflappable Clay Cornell.
0:15
Today we're tackling bad managers and we brought in the
0:20
expert. OK, so went to dinner with a
0:31
couple of old friends from X company right?
0:37
And they've both moved on into these different HR roles.
0:40
We had a ball talking about the recent firings that they did.
0:47
They're, I don't think they're allowed to disclose.
0:48
It's like HIPAA or something. I don't think you can say it's.
0:52
Definitely not HIPAA, but also it they didn't say their names.
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I don't know who these people are, but do you want to hear my
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favorite firing out of all of them?
1:00
Yes. And I don't relish in people's
1:02
firings, but some people deserve it.
1:05
And so here's an example of one. OK, Zoom meeting starts.
1:11
This girl is late. Finally she comes on.
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She's like 4 or 5 minutes late. Everybody's like, where is Judy,
1:19
right? It's.
1:20
Not Judy. Is her name Judy?
1:21
No, and it doesn't even play well.
1:23
Her name is. What would be a good name for
1:27
this? Cynthia.
1:30
No. Rudy Trixie.
1:32
Trixie. Rudy is not even a female name.
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No, we're going to call her Trixie.
1:38
So Trixie is she's she's a few minutes late.
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Finally she she flips her camera on because it's a camera on
1:49
culture, which I am a huge fan of, you know, non verbal
1:53
communications 80% blah, blah, blah.
1:55
So she flips on her thing and it's wobbly, like, you know,
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it's like unstable. And then all of a sudden, it
2:02
settles into her naked, bare chest boots.
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What? Boobs.
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What do you mean it's unstable? Like it's resting on her boobs.
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Well, it's like it's, it's wobbly.
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It's like, OK, something's going on.
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Like she didn't know that she had already turned on her
2:18
computer. She was trying to get settled or
2:20
her camera. And then she did it and it's
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just boobs. And there's like 15 people on
2:28
this call. The manager says, Trixie, can
2:31
you you're, I don't think you realize you're on camera.
2:34
Like please, you know. And she's like, oh, oh, my bad,
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sorry. So she shuts it off, settles
2:41
back in, turns it on. Still.
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It's very much it's this. Then it's the head because she's
2:48
in the bathtub because she's taking the all hands from the
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bathtub. Has she never watched The Young
2:56
and the Restless where the electronic, like the hair dryer,
3:01
falls into the bathroom and like electrocutes someone?
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That's your concern. Her safety.
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That's really sweet of you. But she's like blah, blah, blah,
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and then this. So she got fired for so many
3:16
reasons, but you know the one. Wait, wait, wait, wait.
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Why would she get fired for that?
3:20
Well, first of all, taking a call from the bathtub.
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Is not. Yeah, I guess that part, but not
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I mean. That was really the main reason.
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The other thing was an accident. But you shouldn't I guess what
3:31
we need to say. For any employees out there
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listening, don't be on a call naked.
3:39
So let's start there. If COVID has taught people
3:42
nothing, right? I mean, how many videos did we
3:44
see of people doing very bad things during COVID on a company
3:48
call? There was there was a Detroit,
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there's a Detroit police officer who showed up to the video court
3:53
this week in the news and he didn't have any pants on.
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Really. That's still a thing.
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I always have pants on, but they I often wear like really nice
4:03
blouses and then I've got my sweats on the bottom.
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But that's like, OK, right? Yeah, everyone does that.
4:09
Yeah. Yeah.
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Except for the people that are naked.
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No, I just think it's wild. She was very upset and very,
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very mad, but didn't have a leg to stand on.
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There's not a if you if you're going to show up naked to a
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call, it's Yeah, what I mean, what?
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Are the laws around that though? Like there was a big case in
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Boulder where there was a naked gardener and he was out
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gardening, he and his wife naked and they were on their property
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line. And I don't know where the case
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went, but well. That's indecent exposure.
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It's the same reason I risk my flawless record every time I pee
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in a parking lot. You know, or you like pee and.
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You've never gotten arrested or got in trouble at anything.
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Knock on wood, when you got to go, you got to go.
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I don't know why I've had seen this in the last two weeks, but
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there was a graphic I saw and I don't even know if it's true.
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So our listeners are going to Fact Check us fast.
5:07
Fact Check me on this. But certain states you are
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legally allowed to be nude in your backyard.
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And then there are certain states where you're not allowed
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to be naked in your backyard. And it all depends on state
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laws. It's not like a it's like
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locally there are some places where you could be, you could
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nude sunbathe in your yard, but some places you couldn't.
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But yeah, when it comes to work though, you can't do that.
5:38
I feel like it's universal. I mean, Fort Collins, we have a,
5:41
it was the whole free the nipple campaign thing where it was like
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a woman can be the same. Like it's not up to society to
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sexualize the body part. And so wherever a man could be
5:53
shirtless, then also a woman could be so not inside a
5:56
restaurant because you're required to wear a shirt in a
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restaurant, but at a park, at the public swimming pool, Like,
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they passed that, that a woman could take their shirt off.
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I don't really see it very often once in a while.
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But to your point, Clay, it's a local ordinance.
6:11
Yeah. Yeah, I don't have any problem
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with the Free the Nipple campaign.
6:14
To be honest, I've often thought that that was just weird how we
6:17
put all these rules on what we wear in general.
6:21
I will say I would question the decision making capability of
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this woman who was taking the call from the bathtub like.
6:29
Yeah. That does to me.
6:32
I would feel so uncomfortable being one frame away from any
6:37
colleague seeing any vulnerable, any part.
6:40
I won't even do swimsuits at corporate events.
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Like I get so mad if you were have to go to like we had a
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event once on a boat and I'm like, I don't want to wear a
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swimsuit. I'm 20 years older than
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everyone. Like no thank you.
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It's uncomfortable, much less in a bathtub, so.
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Yeah, we did a Cancun thing and it, and it was it, yeah, it's,
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it's, it's a little, it's vulnerable that way for sure.
7:01
Yeah, yeah. Interesting.
7:02
So anyway, that was the funny the funny firing story of the
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week. How do you, what's the
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conversation go like? Hey, so you know what happened
7:10
or like, how do you say to someone it is inappropriate to
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show up to? How do you, how do you say that
7:18
sentence without laughing, you know, or like without just I
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don't know, I don't. Know, I don't know that's she
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was dying. I asked you that question
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because she had to do it and she was like, you just kind of have
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to hold it together and be like, there's a code of work conduct.
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And unfortunately you did violate it and we're going to
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have to part ways. And I don't know.
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I don't. Know Oh my gosh, this is wild.
7:39
Come on, people. Yeah, HR has some good stories,
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that's for sure. OK, so Blakely, let's.
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I know this would never happen to you, obviously, because you
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would never take this chance. But if it did, on the off chance
7:53
you were in a hurry, you had to rush out to like an event right
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after this. And so you had to take your
7:57
bath. Now or never.
7:59
I don't take baths. OK, You're stop being difficult,
8:02
OK? You're you're Trixie right now.
8:05
Think bathtubs. OK.
8:06
Trixie loves, loves the. Bath.
8:09
Trixie loves the bath, the candles, the whole bit.
8:11
Yeah, So you're Trixie, you're in the bathtub that you get
8:15
caught, you get found out. Do you just?
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Quit like are you just like I'm out like or do you wait and see
8:20
how it blows over? I would never show my face in
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front of a single person in that office ever again.
8:26
I would be calling up. I wouldn't be calling.
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I'd be texting my boss and be like, I'm so sorry.
8:31
I'm mortified and I don't ever want to show my face again.
8:34
I'm out. Yeah.
8:35
Yeah. Like, no, I wouldn't.
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No, no. It's horrible.
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I wouldn't either. I've dreamt about rage quitting
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in my life or just like having something that was like so
8:44
extreme but I've never actually actually done it.
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That's not even a rage quit. That's an embarrassment.
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An embarrassment. Quit.
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I just mean like an emotionally triggered, this has not been
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thought through. I don't have anything lined up,
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but enough is enough. Like I'm out.
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That's takes a lot of courage and guts.
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And you know who did rage quit? Oh, I know.
9:05
Our guest and our guest all about it.
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Oh, I'm so excited. I know she's awesome.
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We've talked about sticky situations before, but today we
9:15
brought in reinforcements. Our guest is Linda Harvey, who
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did what most of us only dream about.
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She rage quit her high level corporate job and turned that
9:25
middle finger moment into a thriving business.
9:29
Now she trains managers with the kind of raw, unfiltered honesty
9:32
that makes HR departments nervous.
9:34
No corporate speak, no sugarcoating, just the truth
9:38
about what makes managers suck and how to actually fix it.
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Her no BS approach has earned her a cult following across
9:44
social media. And when it comes to calling out
9:47
bad managers, we knew exactly who to call.
9:50
Because sometimes you need someone who's not afraid to say
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what everyone's thinking. And Linda's made a career out of
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exactly that. Linda, welcome to not all
10:00
business. Everyone is looking for an
10:06
advantage in their marketing that they can digest in a clear,
10:09
fun format. Well, there's one podcast I want
10:13
to tell you about that's changing the game.
10:15
It's called Your Audience is Waiting and it's for business
10:18
leaders who are done with surface level marketing advice.
10:22
Hosted by visibility and content strategist Alicia Everett.
10:26
This isn't a show about posting more content.
10:29
It's about aligning your visibility strategy with actual
10:32
business goals and revenue. Alicia helps CEOs, founders, and
10:36
ready to scale business owners build strategic visibility
10:40
ecosystems that position you as the authority in your space and
10:43
convert attention into customers.
10:46
Real frameworks, real ROI Clay, that's return on investment.
10:51
So if you're leading a business and you want to grow, go
10:55
subscribe to your Audience's Waiting wherever you listen to
10:58
podcasts. Back to the show.
11:04
Hi, I'm so excited to be here. I am a fan.
11:07
We're a fan. We're like we're going to be
11:10
curse. We are a little bit.
11:13
It's so fun, Willow, when you find like minded people out
11:17
there trying to get this message out.
11:18
This is instant connection where I knew we'd be friends.
11:21
I just, I, I knew it without even knowing you yet.
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I'm like, yes, this, we have this in common and there's this
11:26
movement out there and you're a huge part in it.
11:30
And so, yeah. What's the movement?
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I feel like we need to brand this movement.
11:35
Anyone put some thought? Have you ever thought about
11:36
that, Linda? No, I haven't thought about it.
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But you know, give me a few minutes and I'm sure I can come
11:41
up with something. I'm sure I can come up with
11:43
like, something clever, right? I know.
11:46
I think we're going to call this a movement.
11:48
We need to brand the movement and like collect all of.
11:51
Us, I think I think a lot of it's about like learning how to
11:55
survive, right? Like I, I, my husband pesters me
11:59
every day and he's like, have you written a book yet?
12:01
And I'm like, you know what maybe it's just the employees
12:03
handbook on like surviving corporate life.
12:06
I don't know, but I do think that it's like some kind of
12:09
survival skills and learning how to survive in your job.
12:13
Yeah, it's interesting. There's two different voices,
12:16
right? Like what you just said, the
12:18
employee's handbook. There's that voice of the
12:20
employee in the survival and I I get that.
12:23
But then there's like the other side of it is like, hey, how can
12:27
us all as like leaders show up and be more emotionally
12:31
intelligent and, you know, be more caring about these teams
12:35
and people versus all the corporate investor pressure we
12:39
deal with? So I yeah, it's like employees
12:42
handbook and employers handbook. But employers that leaves such a
12:46
bad taste in your mouth. Like all employers are the big
12:48
bad, right? So.
12:51
Well, I think at the end of the day, we're all still trying to
12:53
survive. Whether you're a frontline or
12:56
entry level employee or whether you're a mid level manager, even
12:59
if you're in the C-Suite, you're still trying to survive.
13:03
And I don't think anybody has really taught people how to
13:06
survive in the workplace, right? It's just put your head down,
13:10
ignore it or get out. Nobody's really talking to
13:13
people about like this is this is a form of survival, right?
13:17
Like showing up and working with humans every single day and
13:20
trying to figure out how to like get through your day is still
13:23
survival. So I, I think in general,
13:26
whether it's the frontline employees or it's the C-Suite,
13:30
like we're all still just trying to survive.
13:33
Right. Yeah, and I see it.
13:34
That's really well said. And I see it too as such an
13:36
opportunity for humanity as we've hearing all of the
13:40
messages of it's a collaboration between AI and the human and
13:44
we're working together, not a part and and at the same time
13:46
laying off in droves thousands and thousands of workers.
13:50
And so it's like, OK, so it's true that the humanity piece of
13:54
it has to be valued more. And what does it look like to
13:58
value the humans on your team? And what does it look like to be
14:01
valued as a human on a team? And how is that different than
14:04
just showing up to work as a robot, which for so many years
14:07
we've just been conditioned to, you know, work harder, put in
14:10
the time foot and FaceTime, click, click, click, click,
14:11
click. And then like the cog in the
14:12
wheel. Well, now that there's coming AI
14:14
cogs in the wheel, it's like, OK, so then now how are we
14:18
really valuing? What does it mean to be a human
14:20
at work and how are we valuing that?
14:23
Could you imagine just being judged by what you know ChatGPT
14:27
just wrote versus like your marketing copy?
14:29
Like I would never win. Like I wouldn't, I can't win
14:33
over what comes out of a robot. Like I hope they judge me as a
14:37
human somehow nicely. Yeah well cuz it's got to come
14:41
from your soul at that point because the, you know, it
14:45
doesn't have a soul so. Well, and here's the interesting
14:49
thing I think about AI specifically when we talk about
14:51
ChatGPT is we, everything sounds new and original now.
14:57
But in two or three years when everybody is relying just on
15:02
ChatGPT, nothing's going to sound original any longer
15:05
because ChatGPT doesn't craft it.
15:08
It's not thinking, it's scouring the Internet for answers.
15:12
And when everybody's answers or Chat GPT's answers that I, you
15:17
know, I, I think that's where we're going to start to see a
15:19
serious collapse of AI. You know, you know, has no
15:24
creativity and no branding at all.
15:27
Is ChatGPT like who named it ChatGPT?
15:32
Like first of all, Clay, why aren't you calling us out on
15:35
that acronym? Who the F knows what GPT means?
15:40
If only you were not on mute. I love it.
15:45
This is everyone. Please.
15:47
Take stock, anyone who's listening and not watching to
15:50
know Clay being on mute is like the biggest faux pas we've ever
15:55
had. Would you?
15:55
Would you snap him? A quick correction.
15:59
OK, so first of all, this get this has been every single
16:03
podcast I've ever produced. Yeah, ever.
16:07
The first time that this happens, it this, what just
16:13
happened is like basically another level of hell that I've
16:17
already been through. It's just another level.
16:20
It's like Groundhog Day. But here's how it, if I can
16:24
explain myself in the court of, you know, public opinion.
16:27
I went to adjust my microphone. You might notice a few minutes
16:31
ago it was at a different level. I wanted to change it.
16:33
Then I go to turn. I change my mic, then I turn it
16:37
back up, but I didn't release on the on my mouse.
16:43
I didn't release it right and so it thought I was at 0.
16:47
At this point, no one cares I'm. Bored.
16:50
I was about to say, no, I care. OK, so why?
16:53
You know what I care about. I was just going to talk about
16:55
accountability and like Clay, you just said in the
16:58
conversation that this happens every time.
17:01
So in in my management voice and in my management tone, I would
17:06
say, OK, well, let's talk a little bit about accountability.
17:09
Let's talk about like the lessons that we learn through
17:12
our mistakes. And it's OK.
17:14
You know, one thing that I tell people is when you make a
17:17
mistake, hey, I just made a mistake.
17:20
We don't need an explanation. We don't need a dissertation.
17:23
We just need ownership of a mistake, Yes.
17:28
That over explanation was way too much.
17:31
And so nicely. But what?
17:33
How about Linda's delivery on the tone?
17:35
Did you notice she wasn't? I don't know, I mean I layer in
17:38
my shame approach. She wasn't coming from top down.
17:41
She was coming from let me meet you here and lift you up better
17:45
for next time, but also at the same time allowing you the
17:48
opportunity to say you're right. I'm gonna do.
17:51
That anytime. So that makes.
17:53
Us more clay. So can I try again?
17:55
Yeah, OK. Yeah, yes, Clay, you're on mute.
18:01
Hey Clay, you're on mute. You're totally right, I was on
18:04
mute. That's my mistake.
18:07
Thank you for pointing that out. I will do better next time to
18:10
make sure that my voice is clear for our entire meeting.
18:12
Thank you. It's still too long.
18:14
Well. Yeah, and not enough, not enough
18:17
of a backbone. I want you to be like.
18:18
Asking your opinions. I want Linda's opinion.
18:20
I think Clay, I think it just would have been like, oh, thank
18:23
you. Got it.
18:27
Yeah, uh huh. That's wow.
18:29
OK, can I try a second time? Third, can I try again?
18:33
Clay, you're on mute. Clay, you're on mute.
18:42
You're right. Got it.
18:43
Thank you so much. See, that was beautiful.
18:47
That was very well done. A little too much pageantry.
18:52
Too much pageant? It's good.
18:56
Should we go for 1/4 time? I think we should move on.
18:58
But I love it. I love it.
18:59
Linda. So you're part of the podcast
19:02
now? So we recorded every Tuesday
19:04
evening. See you next Tuesday.
19:06
Yeah, see you next Tuesday. That's a can't see.
19:10
That yeah, but we don't because everyone comes, this comes out
19:12
on Thursday, so we have to like. She doesn't know it.
19:15
You don't know. Yeah.
19:17
It's so sad when this happens. You don't know.
19:19
What see you next Tuesday stands for, do you?
19:22
Who? Me.
19:23
Yeah. What are you talking about?
19:25
Sorry, right? Does everyone else know?
19:28
Yeah, we'll take it offline. It's it's an acronym.
19:31
Yeah, what? The you guys, what are you
19:33
talking about? It's a bad word.
19:36
We're not going to say it. We are not saying that on this
19:38
podcast. I just, I just mentally,
19:41
visually saw what you were saying.
19:43
Gosh, don't ever say that word. That is the one word.
19:46
I do not. You are the one, I bet.
19:49
Said it, you said it, not me. I did not know the code.
19:53
You know what we are beating around the Bush when we have
19:57
like the world's best story sitting right over here.
20:00
And Linda, I teased out your rage quit story.
20:03
I don't know. I was trying to think, have I
20:05
ever actually met someone who's like truly just said, F you, I
20:10
am out of the building and I don't know that I have.
20:13
I'd have to really think on that.
20:14
So I'm dying. To hear So it's not quite as
20:17
Jerry Maguire as it sounds, right?
20:20
It's. Oh yeah, that's probably the
20:22
only other person I know. Who's coming with me?
20:25
Yeah. So I'll, I'll set the stage a
20:27
little bit. So I had been working for this
20:31
company and it was one of these situations where I had never
20:36
felt so aligned in my career with my job.
20:40
Like my skills, like I think we always step into positions and
20:43
we're like, can I do it? And you know, how is this going
20:46
to stretch and grow me? And how am I going to do all of
20:48
the things? And I was in a job that I was
20:51
finally like the needs of the business and my skills like
20:55
perfectly aligned. And I was so excited to do this
20:58
role, right. And I, when I had stepped into
21:02
this job, I had made a lot of changes and for the better,
21:05
right? Like I had saved the business
21:07
like $600,000 within the first six months of me working there.
21:12
Yeah, I had cut their call volume in half.
21:16
I had taken their attrition to 10 from 10% year over year do
21:20
under a percent year over year. Like, I know, I know crazy,
21:26
crazy changes and I had done all of these things and yet I felt
21:31
miserable all of the time. And I felt so not aligned with
21:35
what I was doing, even though I knew exactly what I was doing.
21:38
And I, I had actually been living in another country.
21:42
So I was living in another country and I had ended up
21:47
having a meltdown with my boss because I, I finally had kind of
21:50
put my finger on what my problem was.
21:53
And my problem was is that I just didn't feel aligned with my
21:55
boss. I didn't feel supported.
21:57
I felt, you know, just that it was a really toxic environment
22:02
for me, right? But I'm living in another
22:04
country. I hadn't even I wasn't even sure
22:07
where I was coming when I was coming back into the country and
22:10
where I was going to live. And I ended up having a meltdown
22:14
with my boss. She had she had made like a
22:17
really flippant comment and I had just like just total
22:21
meltdown on my boss and unhappy. And I feel like maybe I should
22:24
quit and maybe these things. And I will never forget having
22:29
this conversation. I'm like, completely emotionally
22:31
breaking down. And instead of saying, OK, this
22:35
is a lot like, can we fix anything?
22:38
Is there anything that we can do to, like, do this?
22:40
She's like, what's your exit plan?
22:43
Yeah, that was the response. She asked you that.
22:48
Yes, like that. That was literally the response
22:51
of like I'm sobbing for help, right.
22:54
And I never cry at work sobbing for help and that the exit plan.
23:00
And so again, I'm living in another country.
23:03
Were you? Living in another country
23:04
because of work or just like personal working remotely?
23:08
No, because I just, I wanted to live in another country.
23:11
And so, but you know, I was the only one working at the time.
23:14
My husband's work wouldn't allow him to go.
23:16
So I was the the breadwinner in the Family Guy.
23:18
It was doing all of these things and I'm like, OK, I have to have
23:21
a job in order to go back into the States to find a place to
23:25
live, right? So I claw back and I'm like, OK,
23:28
this was a cry for help, blah, blah, blah, right?
23:30
No support from my manager. And then then the conversation
23:36
really shifts and it's like, OK, well, if I'm going to allow you
23:41
to stay, like, these are the words that are coming out of
23:44
this person's mouth. Like, I'm the one who's having a
23:47
mental breakdown. And instead of like, saying, OK,
23:51
how can we support you? What can we do?
23:53
Are there some ways that we can work on a relationship?
23:55
It's like, what's your exit plan?
23:57
And then I'm like, oh shit, I don't have a place to live
24:00
inside the, the country. And I, my job was telling me I
24:03
had to come back into the country.
24:05
So I was moving back into the United States because my job
24:07
told me I had to. And then they're like, well, if
24:10
we're going to allow you to stay.
24:12
And I'm just like, this is nuts. Like I felt so crazy.
24:15
So I literally moved back into the country with my family.
24:19
We're living in an Airbnb and I am physically I'll every single
24:24
day like I can't. I can't keep any kids.
24:27
Too right at this point. I have two teenagers and again
24:31
I'm the only one working. I'm having like this mental
24:34
breakdown and I. Hear this all?
24:37
The time I just was like, that's it, I'm done.
24:39
I can't do this anymore. And I just again, I hadn't, I
24:44
wasn't, I hadn't even signed my leash yet.
24:46
Like I wasn't in a permanent living space.
24:49
I had no idea what I was doing. I was right back into the
24:51
country and I was like, that's it, I'm done.
24:53
I'm just done. And I had to and I had to walk.
24:56
Away. I have a lot of anxiety right
24:58
now listening to that. Because you because of the no
25:01
backup plan like there was no like I'm going into something
25:04
else. I when I said I hear this all
25:06
the time, the part I hear all the time is I have a lot of
25:10
women in my circle that are the breadwinner and they have two
25:14
young kids and they're in miserable jobs and there is no
25:18
backup plan. And you know, kind of my
25:20
husband, he always says like the moment you feel freedom is the
25:24
moment you can like rage quit a job.
25:27
And I'm like, oh, that financial freedom like that makes a lot of
25:31
sense for me now hearing this because the all I can hear and
25:35
is like my heart rate going up going.
25:38
How did you do that? Like I hope you had a back up
25:42
plan. I didn't, I had no idea what I
25:44
was going to do. I didn't have anything lined up.
25:46
My husband was still trying to find something and it was just
25:50
like I and, and I'm so type A like I'm like, I always have a
25:54
plan. I always know what's going on.
25:57
And this was just like absolutely not.
25:59
And I will tell you the relief I felt when I hit send on that
26:03
e-mail was instant. I was no longer physically I'll,
26:07
I was no longer like, I was not losing my hair.
26:10
I wasn't losing my sleep. I mean, just everything.
26:14
And I felt so much better. And then it was OK, great.
26:17
What do I do now? Like, what do I do now?
26:20
And that's kind of how I started.
26:24
I, I started my own business. I was like, managers need to be
26:28
trained because this is the experience that I had.
26:31
I, this manager that I had that attributed to like this demise
26:34
of my well-being. She was like 7-8 years older
26:38
than me, right? Had been managing forever, had
26:41
excellent pedigree when it came to like experience and whatnot.
26:45
And as I was reflecting back on it, the things that the, the
26:51
guidance that she would give was so astounding to me.
26:55
I mean, we got employee surveys back and I had one person who
26:59
was really unhappy and she's like, I'll just figure out who
27:02
it is and fire them, right? Oh my gosh.
27:05
Yeah, this is the guidance I'm being given.
27:09
I always advise all of my clients to make your calendars
27:13
private. I don't think it's anybody's
27:14
business what you have on your calendar because your work
27:17
should show what you're doing. If you're not working, then
27:20
that's the conversation. That's not about your calendar.
27:22
And like in meetings, Oh, Linda's top secret calendar.
27:27
Oh, she's super spy calendar, right?
27:29
Like in meetings in front of my peers.
27:32
And then I had my peers who were coming to me saying, well,
27:35
you're top secret. They these are things that are
27:38
clearly being repeated when I'm not in the room and, and
27:44
watching, just watching the guidance right when, when I had
27:48
my meltdown. And then she's like, well, if
27:51
I'm going to allow you to stay, you need to change your team
27:54
meetings from one hour a week to 230 minutes because that's what
27:58
I like. I was just like, this is nuts,
28:01
this is nuts. And yeah.
28:02
Despite, but also back up to the fact of what you had
28:05
accomplished there. Like that's what's boggling my
28:08
mind. I mean, you had proven yourself.
28:09
You saved on the bottom line. You saved on attrition.
28:13
You brought in this money. What was the role even?
28:15
What? Did you already say that and I
28:17
missed it? I was the head of customer
28:19
support. Oh my God, that's like one of
28:21
the hardest jobs ever. You're tracking like NRR
28:25
retention of clients and then also staff turnover and making
28:28
sure that there are. That is a very tough job.
28:32
What does NRR mean? Not revenue retention and maybe.
28:36
Retention. How many Rs could I throw out?
28:39
Revenue retention. So yeah, it's basically once you
28:43
sell something, keeping the client instead of having to go
28:46
get a new client. And then if you lose it or they
28:49
downsize, then it's like your NRR number goes down.
28:53
Which is actually a often times a way more valuable number than
28:57
your top line, right, Because it's easier to keep customers
28:59
than it's those customers and you get big more business.
29:02
So it's funny because Heather's right, it's one of the hardest
29:05
jobs. And we always think about sales,
29:07
sales, sales. And we put all this money into
29:09
sales and we sometimes forget about support and support in my
29:14
company was the biggest ultimately became overtook like
29:18
sales. It's the biggest revenue
29:19
generation is like nurturing your base.
29:21
So it is a critical function of the company.
29:24
Yeah, and it's what investors look for and, you know,
29:26
purchasers when they're coming out, It's like, what are you
29:28
keeping clients? Yes, you can get them, but are
29:30
you keeping them? Because that shows that the
29:31
product can be sticky. Anyway, that's all to the point
29:34
to say I don't feel like it's wild to me that you get to this
29:39
point. And the first thing she's like,
29:41
all right, well, it's your exit plan.
29:42
Or just do it differently my way because it's kind of saying we
29:44
don't even, we're not even appreciating who you are and
29:47
what you've done thus far. And it, and it was just this
29:50
telltale sign of like the moment that I had was like, you have no
29:54
idea what you're doing. And, and, and that was the
29:57
moment where I'm like, OK, how can we have people, we have
30:00
people in these positions of power that really don't know
30:03
what they're doing, right? They don't know how to manage
30:06
like a top performer or an independent, like somebody who's
30:09
an independent thinker. And again, like this wasn't my
30:12
first rodeo. I had been head of customer
30:14
support in several companies and it was just like, well, but you
30:18
have to run it this way. And it's like, but why?
30:22
Why does that matter, right? And the thing that I, I really
30:25
have noticed with so many managers is they just feel like
30:29
you have to do it their way because they've been successful,
30:33
right? And that was the overarching
30:34
message from this scenario was, well, because you're not doing
30:39
it my way, how could you possibly be successful?
30:42
And that's when I was like, OK, people need my help.
30:47
People need help to learn how to manage people.
30:50
They need to learn because 85% of managers who are promoted, so
30:56
they are promoted from IC, individual contributor to a
31:00
manager. And when they go into that role,
31:03
85% of them never receive training.
31:07
And to me, that's almost like, I, I liken this a lot.
31:10
A new managers kind of like being a new parent, right?
31:13
But you have a lot less support when you're a new parent.
31:17
You can be like, I have no idea what I'm doing and people will
31:21
tell you, but when you're at work, you can't tell anybody.
31:24
You don't know what you're doing because then your team doesn't
31:27
trust you or you're afraid you're going to get in trouble
31:30
or that that performance review, you're going to get a 2 instead
31:34
of a three. And you're just going to be, you
31:38
just can't tell anybody. And then So what you do is you
31:41
step into these roles. And I, and I watched it on the
31:44
team that the, the team with this person, all of the people
31:49
that reported to this person, aside from my functions, had all
31:53
been people who had started out as frontline employees and had
31:55
grown. And we're doing it exactly the
31:57
way that they wanted it done versus being kind of independent
32:02
thinkers or like trying new things and stepping outside of
32:05
the box, right? And that's because they just
32:07
mimic what they see. Yeah, that's that ceiling that
32:10
they hit where it's like, OK, well, it wasn't trained on this.
32:12
And just because you're good at doing something, doesn't good
32:15
mean that you're good at managing people.
32:16
Exactly. So it in back to that moment
32:20
where she said, what's your exit strategy?
32:23
If you could do it all over again and give advice to that
32:27
manager or anyone else in her position, what kind of response
32:32
could she have given you that would have given you a chance to
32:34
stay and work it out? Like what should she have done?
32:40
I really think the appropriate response would have been like.
32:43
Thank you for sharing the feedback.
32:46
And then stop. And that's where so many people
32:51
in leadership and management get things wrong.
32:54
They want to react. They want to get their say in.
32:57
They want to make sure that whatever their narrative is is
33:02
heard instead of just going, wow, that was tough to share.
33:07
Thank you for sharing. I'm going to take some time and
33:10
think about this. Yeah, yeah.
33:13
They, she wanted to get her side in.
33:15
She got defensive because she's confronted with your take on it.
33:21
She gets defensive, starts defending, then throws it back
33:23
on you. She can't handle it.
33:25
Horrible. Yeah.
33:26
Yeah, one of the things that I love about how you've taken this
33:32
and turned it into a career is while employee training or
33:37
manager training or any training is awesome.
33:40
Like it's great when employers recognize that if you're going
33:45
from an individual contributor to a manager, you require
33:48
training. But I think it's tough when you
33:52
get a one and done training. You either need some type of
33:55
mentorship, right? But what you really need as a
33:57
practice. And So what I love about what
33:59
you've done is you've turned it it to me into a practice.
34:03
You're giving advice in sound bites and because you're a
34:08
social media star, right? Like you have a, a cult
34:10
following. I don't know millions of, I
34:13
don't know how many followers you have, but it's a lot, Linda.
34:16
It's a lot. And but every little nugget, I
34:20
feel like I get more in that than I do from a six hour
34:24
training. And I think it's because it's
34:26
actionable and there it's where it's in my environment, like
34:31
where I am like I'm in Instagram, I can see it and it's
34:35
repetitive. So it's like it's practice.
34:37
And I would say one of the things we're missing is the
34:40
integration of what it looks like to be a good manager and
34:44
the practice of it. Daily practice is so hard.
34:47
And so I just appreciate that you've turned this not into just
34:51
training one and done. You've turned it into like a
34:54
practice where people are coming back and like, OK, what can I
34:56
learn today? What can I try out tomorrow?
34:59
And it's brilliant. It's it's brilliant.
35:00
I really appreciate you. Yeah, and impractical advice
35:03
too. Like I think managers like have
35:07
your open door policy, have a OK, if you guys want to set
35:09
meetings, I have every day from 10:50 on my calendar for things
35:12
as they come up to allow for that versus being a manager that
35:15
people are afraid of or I'm afraid to share because then you
35:18
won't get your reps and it's going to be worse because and
35:20
then you definitely don't want to do it once a year per Blakely
35:22
Graham on an annual performance review.
35:26
And I think the other thing is with so many managers, one of
35:30
the reasons they get so disconnected is it's the excuse
35:34
of like, well, I'm so busy. I'm just too busy, right?
35:37
And I love it. I, I used to have employees who
35:40
would come to me and be like, Linda, I know you're busy.
35:42
I'm like, you're busy too. We are all busy.
35:45
So let's take this, this idea that anyone's time is more
35:49
important than anybody else's time.
35:52
We are all busy. We all have a million things
35:55
going on, but we can all take a moment to recognize one another
36:00
or to be involved or to learn something or to take like an
36:04
action. So let's stop using that as our
36:07
excuse. Absolutely.
36:09
I love how you listen to your body and just said, you know
36:14
what I mean? Yes, you didn't have a plan, but
36:17
your plan was to protect your health and your Wellness.
36:19
And you just said that enough is enough and trusted that you
36:23
would figure it out. Oh, Heather, I was thinking the
36:26
exact same thing as like, you know, my husband's like freedom,
36:29
like financial freedom is when you can quit your job.
36:32
I heard the same thing. It's that you somehow
36:37
intuitively had a backup plan and the backup plan was you.
36:41
And if we can get out of our like broken down, like we're
36:45
just so fatigued and sick and like, get out of that mode.
36:49
Like we are our best asset. We can figure.
36:52
I mean, we got to make sure we put food on our table.
36:55
But we're smart women. We can figure out our way out of
36:59
these things when we're healthy and when we're in a good place
37:02
to do it. So I appreciate that that was
37:04
your true backup plan. Yeah.
37:06
I'm sorry, it's not more of a Jerry Maguire situation, but I
37:10
mean, it was. Definitely it is.
37:12
Well, it's a, it's the equivalent.
37:13
We can abolish it. There's not a lot of people or
37:16
goldfish in the office anymore these days anyway.
37:19
So I think hitting that said, I could imagine that hitting that
37:23
took a lot of courage to send that out.
37:26
And then what was the response and how long did did that?
37:30
It was like, OK, fine, right. And I was like, OK, good.
37:33
We are all together and we are all on the same page and like,
37:38
you know, good. Yeah, good.
37:40
Good for you. That is such a great role model.
37:43
And you're helping people out in a whole new way, which I I kind
37:46
of hope that she sees your success now.
37:48
I bet she probably does. Oh, you know she does.
37:51
Right. I mean, that's kind of that's
37:54
bad ass. Right there.
37:55
But you know what? Maybe she's listening.
37:58
Let's give her the benefit of doubt.
37:59
Maybe she's getting the advice, you know, like, maybe she's
38:01
like, Oh yeah, that's. In the grand scheme of things,
38:04
like I'm grateful, I'm grateful it happened, I'm grateful that I
38:07
had the experience and we're just moving on.
38:11
One of the feedbacks that I've been getting is that I ask so
38:13
many questions and don't get the full story out.
38:16
And I think I did it again this week, but I'm not apologizing
38:19
because I do think these are important things to suss out.
38:22
And frankly, Linda, we have talked with you a lot.
38:25
This is the beginning of a collaboration.
38:27
We are like minded with all of the same intention to help
38:32
elevate these very important issues to people struggling at
38:34
work. So listeners, you'll be excited
38:38
to know that we have planned a second episode and Linda has
38:41
graciously agreed to do that, which will be hitting in the
38:44
next several weeks where we're going to bring her on as a Co
38:47
host and she's going to attack these bad boss sticky
38:50
situations. So we've got about, we've got
38:53
like 10:00-ish of them so far. So please continue to submit
38:56
them more and more than 10. OK, So continue to submit them.
39:00
Voicemail. I want some voice memo ones
39:02
that. We can put on the air.
39:03
We need to hear the. Yes, so not all dot biz like
39:06
send us a voicemail on there. It's so fun.
39:09
You'll be on Air A. Trixie, you know who you are.
39:12
Call us. We'll give you some tips for
39:15
next time. Naked boobs Trixie Naked boobs
39:18
you got we've, we've got, we've got advice for you.
39:20
Linda wasn't able to speak to that point at that time, but
39:24
call back, she'll be here. I have thoughts on Trixie.
39:27
Oh, you do. Oh what?
39:28
Oh. I have thoughts.
39:29
Closing thoughts on Trixie? Yeah.
39:32
Here's the thing, it was an all hands meeting.
39:35
Like if it was an all hands meeting and you show up topless,
39:37
like, OK, like that to me, that to me is again where you're
39:42
like, whoops. Like you own that mistake.
39:45
Similar to Clay's mute situation.
39:47
I think. Like it's like, oh.
39:49
Very similar. Because if you're in, if you're
39:52
in a group setting, like it's a all hands meeting, who cares if
39:55
you're in the tub? It's just don't show your boobs,
39:58
Yeah. I like that.
40:02
Yeah, I. Think it's very yeah, OK.
40:05
I'll still worry about your safety, so make sure you're not
40:07
plugged in. Right.
40:09
Don't get electrocuted. Yeah, that's, that's a whole
40:12
workers comp debacle right there.
40:15
OK, we're going to have you back.
40:17
Linda, thank you so much for being here today.
40:19
We do ask a question of all of our guests and we answered
40:22
ourselves to what brought a smile to your face this week?
40:27
Likely Clay, if Linda wants to think about it.
40:29
You guys have anything? I'll go usually my smile of the
40:34
week have to do with like my kids or my husband, but this
40:39
time it's going to be about work.
40:40
This podcast, and I haven't even told this to Clay and Heather
40:45
yet, but yesterday we got our first video submission for a
40:51
sticky situation. I was like.
40:54
Awesome. What?
40:54
That's amazing. I know.
40:56
I don't know if we're going to be able to play it on air or
40:58
not. I need to talk to him still.
41:00
But it's a really good one. It's about bullying.
41:03
I almost think when Linda comes back, we might even just have
41:06
her address this like head on, little tease.
41:10
But that, I don't know. It just was like, we did it.
41:13
We did it. We have a video submission of a
41:15
sticky situation. I love that.
41:17
And they were clothed. Linda's disappoint?
41:23
Oh, too bad, Missed opportunity. I'll tell you what we'll What
41:27
should we offer someone who sends us the first submission,
41:31
video submission from the tub? What do they get?
41:33
Oh, they can get on our our Christmas list this year
41:36
because. We're having merch.
41:37
We've got some fun things. Yeah, but we're gonna send out a
41:39
little Christmas package to some packages.
41:42
Holiday package? What, Like, yes, bring it.
41:46
Bring it, Tales from the tub. I love that.
41:50
I was. I was going to try and figure
41:52
out how to bring in the Dick with legs again, but you know,
41:56
there's that. I don't think our audience knows
41:58
about Dick with legs. That's.
42:00
Well, they was pretty. They need to.
42:03
The shame. What?
42:05
Where did it come? What?
42:07
Can someone please explain? Well.
42:09
Everyone is dying. To know, yeah, OK, so.
42:11
Last week, Blake no. Linda asked.
42:14
Last week before we yeah, but before we got on air, Linda
42:17
specifically said, is it OK if I swear on your show And Heather.
42:22
Goes fuck yeah. And then I said I don't swear
42:26
often, but I did last week. I said whiny as Dick and we got
42:29
the most comments. On.
42:32
That. And then I said, I said does
42:34
that? I said, so that has legs.
42:36
I said I think that has legs. So whiny as Dick.
42:38
And then Linda said, and. I said well it's a Dick with
42:41
legs. I mean, I just like the visual.
42:47
That none of us needed. No, it's true.
42:50
And we, well, somebody's going to make a bumper sticker.
42:52
There's my smile for the week, just I'm sorry, but every time I
42:56
think about a Dick with legs I'm just going to giggle.
42:59
Whiny ass Dick with legs. So can we swear on the show?
43:04
Fuck yeah. Yes we can.
43:09
Oh Clay, did you think of 1? I thought of one my son's school
43:16
invited all the parents from kindergarteners, from the
43:19
kindergarteners, all the all the parents of kindergarteners to
43:23
the school for a concert. And it was just amazing to see a
43:30
class of kindergarteners sing a song.
43:33
I don't know. I just, I'm, I'm in.
43:35
This is my first experience being a parent and going to a
43:40
school concert and I was like, this is unreal.
43:44
Everyone should be here right now.
43:47
I just had such like a glowing feeling.
43:50
It was like, this is awesome. Where is everybody?
43:53
Oh my gosh, you just brought back a trauma for me and I'm
43:59
really glad it was a smile for you.
44:02
I just have to tell you because like, I'm so proud of emirs
44:04
right now and his kindergarten class and I think it's
44:07
wonderful. But I just remember the first
44:09
time my dad came to my choir concert and there were 8 solos
44:14
and solo one and four were the same, two and five were the
44:17
same. Like you get that?
44:18
Anyway, I was solo #4 and my dad came at me.
44:25
He's like, good job honey. He was like, you were a little
44:27
stronger the first time. And I'm like, that was.
44:30
Oh my. Jenny McCormick sang that one so
44:35
bad my poor dad may rest in peace.
44:39
He never did. He did.
44:41
He thought you sang it twice, but you were better the first
44:43
time. I just like, I think like
44:48
Blakely, like you weren't looking for notes.
44:51
So bad, all right? Anyway.
44:56
This is my smile. Can I count right now?
45:06
And explain so much. I need for validation all the
45:12
time, yeah. Okay, we're wrapping it up.
45:15
That was mine for the week. I bet trumped it.
45:18
Okay. All right.
45:20
Thank you, Linda. Thank you We.
45:22
Are going to see you soon. Real quick.
45:25
Yeah, where can people go? Follow Linda.
45:29
Check out what Linda is up to. Learn from Linda.
45:31
Get plugged in. Come find me on TikTok.
45:34
It's Linda Leeds or Linda the manager guru.
45:37
I'm also on Instagram as Linda Leeds so and that's Linda with
45:40
AY so come find me, come join my content.
45:45
I can't wait to to meet you. It's so fun.
45:47
Go to one of the lives. I went to one of those.
45:50
You. Came to my lives.
45:53
I'm I'm so glad I didn't know you were there.
45:56
I would have had performance anxiety.
45:57
That's not true. I wouldn't have, but I would
45:59
have said hi. I would have said hi.
46:02
It was so fun. It's, and if you go to the
46:04
comment section of any of Lindas videos, people who are very
46:08
supportive, it's really good. People are sharing personal
46:11
stories. It's a community.
46:12
It's very, it's, it's very, very cool.
46:15
And it's rare. It's hard to find that.
46:17
And you've done a great job. Yeah.
46:20
Building that, I'm in awe. I don't get a lot of trolls.
46:22
I'm so grateful. So thanks for coming to my life
46:25
and supporting. I appreciate it.
46:27
All right, Let's call it. Thanks, everyone.
46:30
Thanks, Linda.