Latest / JM3 Lacrosse Podcast / JM3 Lacrosse Podcast, Season 7, Ep. 3 - PLL Cannons' Brian Kelly
Transcript
- Sara Munro: This is the JM three Lacrosse Podcast conversations about playing, coaching, and learning the game differently. From player development and skill acquisition to the ideas shaping the future of lacrosse. This is JM three. Jamie Munro: How's going, everybody? Welcome back to the JM3 Lacrosse Podcast. Very excited to have Brian Kelly on the podcast. Brian is an attackman for the Boston Cannons, had a breakout season, played his college ball at St. John's, grew up in Albany area, went to Albany Academy, and has been working with me in JM3 for the last year and is an all-around great dude. BK, fired up to have you on the podcast. How you doing, man? Brian Kelly: Yeah, thank you, Jamie. Thanks for bringing me on. long time coming, spent in the works, but glad to be on. Jamie Munro: Yeah. yo, man, great season. I was so fired up for you and the Cannons to you know, you didn't finish it exactly how you wanted to, but you guys turned it around, made a really great run, won a lot of games down the stretch and made it to the semifinals and just really fired up for you, the cannons. Give me some some of your thoughts. How exciting was it for you? Brian Kelly: Yeah, definitely. I mean, it was a dream come true. it was always a goal of mine growing up to play a professional sport. whatever it whatever season it was, that was like what sport I was gonna go play. and then like sometime in middle school when lacrosse became the sport of choice, it was like all in like that's what I wanted to do. so pretty much dream come true. And then for this year, I couldn't have asked for a better group of guys. It was the most enjoyable, and probably one of the closest teams I've been on in which is odd to say 'cause we don't get the locker room time and we don't get that amount of time that you get in college. But the relationships and the amount that guys like cared for each other was awesome and all you could really ask for. So it was great. Jamie Munro: Yeah. You guys are a really fun team to watch. what are some of the things that you would say you've learned this season? you know, for your own game, but as much from playing as from watching your teammates? Brian Kelly: Yeah, I think there's so many guys around the league, that you kind of always look to, but when you kinda get closer to them and you are actually on the team with them and you can pick their brain, there's so much to pick from. so you look at a guy like Coulter, and you watch one, how effortlessly he shoots the ball. it was always kind of something I admired. So I took a lot of time this year to just watch the way he shoots. and when I say effortlessly, his body just kind of moves in this motion that is so smooth and pure, but he shoots the ball so hard. So it's like how does that happen? and watching just how relaxed his body moves. I feel like a lot of times when I get to a step down, I I don't get those opportunities a lot. So I get very excited for But when you can loosen your body and make it more into like a whip rather than this kind of rigid mechanism. it Jamie Munro: Mm-hmm. Brian Kelly: was something that I picked up from him. and then you look at a guy like Marcus and the way that he operates off ball and how he is just constantly moving and picking and communicating. that's something that I took a lot from his communication Jamie Munro: One of the things about Marcus, too, is, and we were chatting about this with Sours the other day, but he's an underrated dodger. I mean, you don't think Brian Kelly: Yes. Jamie Munro: of him as a dodger. He's not, you know, somebody you're scouting for on that, but we were looking at the stats. He had seven one on one dodging goals and a bunch down the stretch. What what what allows him to be such a good dodger when people don't even think of him as being much of Brian Kelly: I think I think that's his secret there. Like he's just very opportunistic in his dodging opportunities. he's not gonna go out there and try to just dice people up for 48 minutes. But as soon as someone overplays an approach, as soon as someone doesn't treat him as a dodging threat, all of a sudden it's like Two moves, quick split and a roll, and he's at the cage. I can't remember specifically, I think it was our whips game, but there was a play where he's kinda like going through X, like carrying, then all of a sudden I th I can't remember if they messed up a pick or if they were just overplaying it and puts his foot in the ground, roll and up the hash, and it was out of nowhere. and it always comes Jamie Munro: Yeah. Sometimes he kind of goes right at you too and just like kinda debilitates if you don't play it just right, all of a sudden he's just by you and Yeah. Brian Kelly: Yeah. His speed is his speed and motor is something that is very, I think, underrated, in the game, which is Jamie Munro: What about him as a shooter? what what do you think about when you watch him as a shooter? Brian Kelly: When I watch him as a shooter, I think a lot about his thought process behind shots. he kind of has a rhythm to it. and he shoots the ball so hard. yeah, he's a little bit more whipped than me. so you can attribute some of it to that. But his confidence just stepping into shots, I think, is something that takes years of doing it. and doing it at a super successful level. he just has the confidence to step into it from wherever, and it works for him. that's kind of the little piece from him. Jamie Munro: How about going against some of those poles? You guys have a outstanding defense, and you got to practice against those guys. Maybe not as much as you probably would like to, like if you were in college. But what did you learn from going against those guys? And what are some of the things you were working on? Brian Kelly: Yeah, I mean Will Donovan was one of my favorites and then Jack Guilty from last year and this year, always loved going against pre game and stuff. I think from Donovan he just does a insane job at trail checking. and if you hang any of your butt Like he d does it very well to his back track. so like in those areas he got me a couple of times and it's like, all right, can't be doing that too often anymore. There was once like tried to bait it into him and didn't work. He kinda beat me to it. Jamie Munro: he did? Brian Kelly: Yeah, yeah. I put it out there for him and it was like yeah, it just stick on the ground, went flying. I was like, can't be doing that too often. Jamie Munro: Well you know the bait he took the bait. Unfortunately he actually just took the bait. But but Brian Kelly: Yeah, he took Yeah, exactly. Jamie Munro: it's always a good sign. If you bait someone and you lose the ball, at least you know they they swung for it. Brian Kelly: Yeah, exactly. At least you you're leaving it to a good spot. but yeah, so Jamie Munro: Yeah. Donovan seems to play with like a wicked wide grip, right? Brian Kelly: He does. He does. And it makes it really good hard to like get outside his hands. Jamie Munro: Mm. Brian Kelly: with hand fighting and stuff. it kinda debilitates that a lot of the times just 'cause his hands Jamie Munro: It does. Yeah. Brian Kelly: are so wide. oftentimes you try to get either to the butt end or that top hand. but it's so much wider than normal and especially for his size, like he's not not small, but he's not one of the bigger defensemen. So when you go and just cross check you kinda expect it to replicate that, it's actually often more Jamie Munro: Yeah. Brian Kelly: a lot wider than those like bigger defensemen, which is pretty cool. Jamie Munro: do you feel like wide grip for defensemen is something that is harder to go against for that reason? Because you can't get your elbows or hands outside outside of their hands in their butt end. Brian Kelly: I do. I think it gives Jamie Munro: Mm-hmm. Brian Kelly: a larger surface area for them to work with. but then the same breath the way that some de vendors will like chicken wing out with their arm and kind of like shift that out. Jamie Munro: I don't believe in the defensive chicken wing. I'm telling you like I Brian Kelly: Me neither and I Jamie Munro: I think it's impossible. Like, how could your elbow that's like such it's like one of the weaker positions? Brian Kelly: Yeah. Jamie Munro: Like there's just no way that you're stopping somebody. I mean, the whole thing Brian Kelly: Exactly. Jamie Munro: what he's doing is he's making that chicken wing concept happen by spreading his hands out and pushing Brian Kelly: Yes. Jamie Munro: his butt end ahead of you. Brian Kelly: Yes. Yes. And but like if you beat the butt end out there, then you still like beat it out there and he still gets chicken winged, you know? so I think there's give and take with everything. But I do think it's I do think it's worth investigating. I think it's a a pretty interesting thought process. He's like Jamie Munro: I think it's really interesting when I saw the I saw a clip on it, but I actually never see it. I don't think I've ever actually seen it happen. I think when it when it looks like it's happening, Brian Kelly: That yeah. Jamie Munro: it's the butt end doing the work, not the elbow. Unlike Brian Kelly: Exactly. Jamie Munro: a chicken wing on offense where your elbow is actually lifting a guy's stick off of you, or pushing a butt end off of you. what do you think you do against a Will Donovan with a wide grip? if that's a good idea? And I can see why it is, because if you can keep people in the middle of your crossjack longer, you can Rocker them back and forth and slide it and kind of be in a strong position. But what do you think how do you attack? Brian Kelly: I don't know. I I mean I Jamie Munro: Mm. Brian Kelly: I would imagine the give and take with it is with a wider grip, your arms just aren't as strong to absorb that cross jack. Like your cross jack's probably a little bit weaker. Your strongest positions probably when you're at about like chest length, maybe a little bit wider than that, like shoulder width Maybe you give up a little but then you see how guys bodies react to it. Like if a guy's more comfortable in that, like he probably doesn't Jamie Munro: Yeah, yeah, totally. Brian Kelly: give up he probably doesn't give up any strength in his cross jack Jamie Munro: I mean, he can hold. He can be strong in his hold. I think it's really interesting. I've thought about this in the past and I've seen guys do this over the years. It's something that we should use that as a constraint though, BK. And just get guys to put an exaggerated wide grip amount. Brian Kelly: Yeah. It would it'd be good. I think if you use the schlong and like almost have them go butt end to like a little under yeah, like a little Jamie Munro: Yeah. What end of the head of the stick? Yeah. Brian Kelly: underhead of the stick, I think it'd be interesting to see. Jamie Munro: I wonder if it like compromises your agility though. I feel like if your hands get wide, it seems like it might be harder to move just because I don't know. I could be completely wrong on that. I it seems like Brian Kelly: Mm maybe, but is it easy enough to as you're getting to one of those points of contact shift your hand out like Jamie Munro: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Brian Kelly: like a fist length, right? Like Jamie Munro: Yeah. Brian Kelly: when you're running with a guy, maybe less when you're in that wide stance, but I approach Jamie Munro: Yeah, I mean two hands on your stick either way, you're you're a little compromised with your movement 'cause you know, it's easier to run when you're swinging your arms. And if whether you got your hands closer together or farther apart, you're still not swinging So maybe I'm totally off on that. It is interesting though. I mean, I'll tell you this, like it's it's pretty hard if your hands are like closer together, you you you you you're gonna get leveraged big time. I think it is really interesting. Yeah. Brian Kelly: Hundred percent. Yeah. and I don't really see the negative of widening out your hands. I Jamie Munro: Yeah. what other defensemen play like that? Brian Kelly: maybe Matt Dunn, but he's just big in general. So that might Jamie Munro: It's nice. Brian Kelly: be why his cross check feels that big. that wide rather, but Jamie Munro: It's really hard to check and wing a wide a wide Brian Kelly: It is. it's so hard 'cause you can't you can't like attack like usually with a defender like that's not that wide, like you can kind of exactly Jamie Munro: You d you're just reaching too far to try to get their bottom hand or reaching too far to get outside of their top hand. But I mean, Brian Kelly: Exactly. Jamie Munro: certainly if you can use some rockers or hesies, you can probably get to slide it around the way you want it to. Maybe you gotta go with the old Lyle Thompson and just or Josh Byrne and just stick your arm right inside of their cross jacket. Yeah. Brian Kelly: And just hold it down and then just shoot around it and then then there's no cross check to deal with. So it's pretty easy at that Jamie Munro: Yeah, exactly. Brian Kelly: point. but yeah, I I mean I guess it would Jamie Munro: Mm-hmm. Brian Kelly: be harder to reverse V hold. Like I think that would be the immediate downside. It would be harder to kind of clear your hands through that. yeah. Jamie Munro: But I feel like is he is he doing that is is he a lefty or righty? He's a lefty, right? Is he a lefty? Yeah. So is he does he doesn't really reverse the hold against righties that though, does Brian Kelly: No, not not necessarily. he will though. Plays it both ways. Jamie Munro: Or does he? Yeah. Yeah. I know Notre Dame guys usually do. Brian Kelly: Yeah. Jamie Munro: Yeah, that's awesome, man. Well, it was kind of a a great story. I mean, if the PL had a newcomer of the year, you would have been in the been a finalist for that, given the fact that you're on the roster last year but never got to Brian Kelly: Yeah. Jamie Munro: play any game and this year you came in in the second game of the season and locked yourself in and one of the Honestly, one of the better dodging attackmen in the in the league. well, you like third or fourth in league for one on one unassisted goals, which is which is pretty sick. talk to me about what you did to get better and to try to get yourself in the lineup and and how you were intentional about that. You kind of referenced this in your inside lacrosse article. Brian Kelly: Yeah, I mean I mean it was a lot. I mean, I think I played more pickup than anything. but I I think what that kind of alludes to is just a shift of mindset of training. and we've talked about this in the past, but through college, and through high school it was a lot of find a drill on Instagram, put cones out there and do that. And I I think like I think that helped me in areas. I think those are great workouts. but I don't know if it generally got me better at lacrosse through doing it. I think I had skill and then like through playing lacrosse and through practicing for four years in college. Like I think I kind of figured those out. but this past year with all the pickup and training sessions, it allowed me to dive so much deeper into my understanding not only for the game as a whole, but my game in in in and of itself. I think being able to play pickup if you watch from this summer that I came down back in college to this summer playing pickup, I think it's night and day as far as the skills that I've picked up through that. and then just intentionality of the game as a whole. the amount of things I've learned, both playing off ball. I don't think I really played off ball in college all too much or high school. I would sneak and I would drift and I would drift at X or I would counter and that was kind of the peak of it. Yeah. But Jamie Munro: The extent. Yeah. Brian Kelly: now being able to understand how to like manipulate slides and manipulate defenders off ball, how to help my teammates get open off ball. it's just helped me explore different avenues of my game. That's been just so enjoyable to learn and take in, which has been great. Jamie Munro: For the sake of the listeners, I got a call or a text maybe from Coach Turry. Justin Turry's head coach at St. John's, and he was like, Hey, one of my guys, you know, was interested in coming up to one of your James Free training sessions in the summer. Would you be up for that? I was like, sure, just have him reach out. And so BK reached out and I was like, Yeah, why don't you come up in August? Things quiet down a little bit. And I was just really impressed. I was just like, this guy's a great kid. He got there early, helped set up. He stayed late, helped break down. and obviously a really good player. And then did we did we followed up on a zoom? I can't even remember. I think yeah. We followed up a zoom and we watched we watched Yeah, we did a Brian Kelly: Yes. Yes you did. We did I think we did like one or two. Yeah. Jamie Munro: couple, yeah. I do so many Zooms in a year, I kind of forget sometimes. Brian Kelly: Yeah. Jamie Munro: But then when I was looking to bring somebody on for JM3, I was like, I should like reach out to BK. And I reached out back out to Coach Cherry. I was like Any red flags? He's like zero. No red flags. Best guy, you know, two-year captain, really good student, leader, no, and a great player, more one of the more unknown players, you know, probably the best player nobody knew about, which is why you made the Canaan's roster. Tell me what that was like actually trying out, you know, as a bit of an unknown. Like what what did you do well and how did you, you know, how did you make that roster? Brian Kelly: Yeah. definitely stressful. because at that point it's like you're so close to actually getting it. and then it all kind of sits on three days of practice, right? So it's Jamie Munro: Yeah. Brian Kelly: like it's like, all right, well, I got like these three opportunities and it's how am I gonna make the most of it? and I think going into it, I think it was more just the confidence that I was playing with, and my ability to communicate at that level. I think I made plays throughout, but I think like my voice and my ability to communicate and to kind of set the tone with that. I think that's what helped me get on the roster. yeah, yeah. And in dodging, Jamie Munro: Yeah, and probably dodging. Brian Kelly: But yeah, extremely grateful and extremely lucky. Like there's so many people that try out every year. and Jamie Munro: And they're all great. Brian Kelly: yeah, and everybody is so good. There's so many good lacrosse players out there. so to be able to make it is unbelievable. but yeah. Jamie Munro: I know when when you came up to Narragansett that summer before your senior year or fifth year, whatever it was, I know we were doing some kind of one on one across the field and we were working on, you know, the defense being physical and using their holds and the offense being physical and learning how to initiate contact and bounce. And then we introduced the concept of hand fighting and we were kind of just getting into that. but I feel like you kind of took it to another level. happens a lot more in the PL. Brian Kelly: Yeah. Yeah. Jamie Munro: It does in college or high school. But maybe tell the listeners a little bit about, you know, what you've learned and and how you think about. Brian Kelly: Yeah, I mean I think that's kind of when you sold me. when we first Jamie Munro: I had you at hang fighting. Brian Kelly: Yeah, you you you kinda had me a hand fighting. I think 'cause Jamie Munro: Yeah. Brian Kelly: I think we got on like one of our Zooms we were talking about I think you pulled a clip of Lyle who all time favorite player. and I was like, that's what it's called and I knew chicken wing, I that was kind of a thing, but it was like that clip and then I think it was a clip of McArdle holding a stick and then it was maybe Fields with like a spin seal or something like that. Maybe Teat with and then it was like Jamie Munro: yeah, spin hook. Joey Spilina. Joey Spilina's high school inside roll between the leg shot. Brian Kelly: Yeah, yeah. and then I think I just kinda w started going down this rabbit hole of like, all right, like how far can I take this? Like what can I get away with? And this was still my senior year of college, so had to appease the refs to some to some point. But it was just this avenue of lacrosse that like I never really explored. you kinda I feel like people always do it. Like there's a chicken wing's always a a thing, but it's like how far can you take it? I mean, and then like watching Chad being able to like be with Chad this summer and kind of watch the way that he hand fights and he plays with it, there's so many different ways to do it. Jamie Munro: Yeah. Brian Kelly: and there's so many ways to do it for however you dodge, right? Like if you're a big physical dodger, being able to get into guys, get tight with guys, and be able to use it that way or If you're a fast guy being able to slap sticks, like Sours kinda is so good at slapping sticks now, he's gotten really good at that. you can pull Jamie Munro: Yeah. Brian Kelly: sticks. T unbelievable. Just he I feel like everything he does is hand fighting or Jamie Munro: Yeah, ridiculous. Brian Kelly: baiting and just kind of leaving stuff out there. But the ways that you can just manipulate defender sticks and get it stuck to a side of you, or to get it stuck on the same side as you. It's awesome. And it's always fun going with the high schoolers and being able to kinda like mess with them sometimes. when I go out with some of the guys, it's like, give a couple of reps and then I'll try a couple hand fighting on them and they're like what they're always like, What the heck? I'm like, Sorry, Jamie Munro: Okay. Brian Kelly: there's no refs out here. but it's Jamie Munro: Just practicing. Brian Kelly: yeah. It's it's Jamie Munro: How many how many training sessions do you think you did last year? You were like playing. I mean, it was probably like seventy, probably. Brian Kelly: Yeah. Yeah, there is a there's a good stretch of I mean, there's a couple of weeks where I was I was like four sessions at on some weeks in the winter as they were picking up. but then towards the spring it's slows down a little bit and then you gotta find your own sessions, which is which is just as fun. Jamie Munro: That's right. BK is also the offensive coordinator at Vassar. Brian Kelly: Yes. Jamie Munro: and that's been a great experience. Tell us a little bit about your learning curve as, you know, being a first, you know, right out of college and going to be an offensive coordinator. It's a big job and coaching is some sometimes harder than playing. Brian Kelly: Yes. No, it is it's been awesome. It's it's honestly been a blast. I think the the best part at the start was like we've talked about so many of these concepts and drills and it came like right after a full summer in Rhode Island. So like I had all these drills and I was coaching so much and then I started with Vassar and I was like, all right, how could how does all this build? And how does it all build? How does it all fit together? And how does it build up to a full team offense? and it was fun. And it is fun. It's this kind of puzzle project where we have our principles and it's like, all right, what is what's out of our principles, which is like the most important parts of the game, now what's most important for me to get across to the guys first? and how do I make that the pedestal? And then how do I intro shot selection and keep that the standard throughout everything that we do while now focusing on our spacing and then focusing on cover solutions and then sprinkling in triggers and then kind of finding the rhythm of like how do we get everything going and then what comes of it. which has been fun. I Jamie Munro: Talk to me specifically about shot selection and tell us a little bit about what you mean by that and what you're what you're s what you're looking for and what you're you know, allowing them to to do or what you're taking away. Brian Kelly: Yeah, definitely. so shot selection for us is gold medal shots are anything within four yards towards the front of the crease. so sticks gotta get to the front of the crease, and then we gotta be within four yards. so there's drills where if I find it's a easier drill, maybe I do something where like we can only look for gold medal shots. or Jamie Munro: Easier meaning like the smaller numbers. Brian Kelly: Yeah, smaller numbers or uneven with smaller numbers, making that the focus. sometimes if you do like a four on four double team, where defense always has to double making like gold medal shots a premium. and then our silver medal shots are ever anything with our feet set from ten yards. It ten yards is the standard. now there's guys that are going to be able to shoot outside of that. that's just inevitable, but 10 yards is what we put at the standard. and that is with time to hitch or time to fully Jamie Munro: Yeah, like only Brian Kelly: step in. and you see so many times guys catching the law at 10 yards, but maybe they're shooting through an approach, and that's just not a shot that we want to bank our lives on. If we're having to shoot with a guy's stick coming through our hands, we could probably fight for better and look for better throughout a possession. We want those those silver medal shots to be shots that we can capitalize on a pretty high percentage. and then our bronze medal is anything on the run with our stick to the middle. again within 10 yards. I'll give license to shoot deeper and guys will shoot deeper than that, but that's kind of the standard that we put. So that's our intent, right? Like that's what we are trying to to get to and that's what we are trying to score. Now, does that mean I'm gonna freak out and break a clipboard if someone shoots an alley shot with ten seconds left on the shot clock? No. At some point guys are gonna have to make plays. and I'm gonna leave that for them to interpret. But our shot selection is what our offense is trying to generate. We're trying to generate gold and silver medal shots. so that's the focus for us. anything outside of that is garbage at most points. It's funny 'cause like Jamie Munro: Yeah. Brian Kelly: we'll get our defenders kind of yelling at our own guys saying like shots are taken out on the podium and and whatever stuff. They kind of get on them for it, which it which is funny. It makes my job easier. So it's good. But it's Jamie Munro: Well, it's such a it's such an important thing because by having a standard of shots that you're going to basically not just encourage but make your players aim for achieving, they can figure it out. And if you don't do that, they will settle. And not only does settling make it harder to win games, because you shoot at a lower percentage, but It just it holds the players back from developing. And so, you know, it's great that your defenders give the offensive guys a hard time. But how do you, you know, and how do you constrain it? You just mentioned that, you know, if a guy takes an alley shot with 10 seconds left in the clock, you might let it go. Sometimes that alley shot turns into the guy catches it and you know, it's a fast break coming down your throat. So how how Brian Kelly: Yes. Jamie Munro: how do you sort of like hold people to the standard? Brian Kelly: Yes, definitely. So a lot of times we've gotten to a point now where our guys hold each other accountable, which is which is what you want to get to. obviously that doesn't mean they always listen, but we'll do we've done in the past things like push ups for bad shots or sub out for bad shots or we'll do you have a certain number of lives. So if you kind of bad shot, turnover, Those are usually the two, or jammed feed. any combination of those three. If you get three of you're just you're out for a little while. Jamie Munro: so it's a lose a life for the individual player where they basically foul out. Brian Kelly: Yes, like a foul out, but for those three things and over a f a ten minute sixty six segment. So let's hope Jamie Munro: Yeah, yeah. Brian Kelly: that our guys aren't doing it at that capacity, but it kinda just puts it in the back of their head, there's some weight to it. and usually they're good about kind of sticking to that, which is huge. Makes my life a lot easier when I don't have to kind of scream at it. But once you ingrain it in them to start, they kind of self regulate it because they realize how much more fun it is to play better offense rather than just kind of shooting alley shots all the time. Jamie Munro: Totally. I love the the detail on your silver medal where it's not just feet set. It's feet set with the the time to hitch. the time to hitch, it's kind of counter to the way a lot of kids train. A lot of a lot of kids are taught to catch it and release it as quickly as humanly possible every time. And I do think that there's guys that can do that really well. I mean, you look at Xander Dixon, he can catch it and get it out of his stick, and it's incredible and it's valuable. But more often than not, guys are shooting because they're trained to just get rid of it as fast as humanly possible. they don't actually hitch. And the thing with the thing with hitching is it allows you obviously to delay your release. And it makes it so much harder for goalies. there's a great clip of Marcus actually from a couple of games ago where he caught it maybe in transition on the wing and he like hitched and the goalie completely began to crumble. Brian Kelly: Yes. Jamie Munro: and then he just throws it right by. Meanwhile, the defender approaching him is like, I don't I can't remember whether he was jumping in or out of the way, ducking or something. it's when you have that time, it makes the game look easy. And I I think there's a time and place for releasing it super quick. but if you're relying on that, especially like on man up, you're probably just not gonna shoot at that high of a percentage. I feel like goalies, If they can have an idea of when you're releasing it, they're gonna have a much, much better chance of saving it than when they when they think it's coming and it's not, because they'll inevitably shift their weight and then you'll catch them in the middle of their weight shift coming. Brian Kelly: Hundred percent. And it's the easiest for a defender to close out. Like as soon as you get the ball in your stick and you're already winding up to release, with any little amount of scout, like they're probably gonna know how you're gonna release it. and then they're just through your hands and half the time you're probably not even seeing where that approach is. so when you think about hitching and when you think about being able to have control over your release. now you have more time to process. You have more time to make a read. Maybe a sh quick release shot isn't the best read because that defender's flying out to you and you could actually walk it into four yards rather than taking it at eight. so I think having that hitch piece is so key for so many guys just because the quality of looks that they're gonna get is Jamie Munro: Toll. Brian Kelly: going to increase. You look at the amount like Chad hitches, like he's Hitches and upgrade shots like no Jamie Munro: Totally. And it also allows you to find your screen. And I think that's, you Brian Kelly: Hundred percent. Jamie Munro: know, like you'll you won't hit you will not hit defensemen and and hit sticks when you when you hitch it. And that's why the Canadians are so good at it, because the box game requires it with their shorter sticks and in tighter areas, it's just easier for them to get a stick in the right spot. It's a little harder for a long pole to get it to the exact right spot sometimes and they're farther away. but that's why you when you watch box players, Canadian native box players, they they they almost I mean, they can release it. Faster than anybody. Like they'll they'll actually quick stick a shot from the outside at times. But usually that's because the goalie's going from pipe to pipe and they Brian Kelly: Yes. Jamie Munro: know that they've got an open net. And when they don't have that, they almost they invariably hitch to find their screen so that they don't get their ball knocked down and also so that they can like move a goalie and and begin to layer on the deception of their shooting. so that's a really Brian Kelly: I mean Jamie Munro: cool nuance. Brian Kelly: it is. It is. And I I think it's important 'cause you just don't want like you don't not every step down and I think that gets lost sometimes, like not every step down is is equal. And I I don't think they should be treated as equally and I don't think they should be sought after as equally. so it's important Jamie Munro: did you use many core constraints in your shooting? Brian Kelly: I have I have not as much as I probably should. me personally I've probably done a decent amount. I've done it a couple times coaching at Vassar. I've done it a lot more in our sessions, but I think it is such a valuable way to one make shooting drills more difficult and to make them more more fun in the sense of like making it a challenge. Jamie Munro: Yeah. Brian Kelly: like giving giving guys the ability to don't know first to hit each corner twice. and then having that goal you'd be able to kind of pick up on which corners you're going for. it's insane returns on those shooting sessions. This shooting sessions that Jamie Munro: It is. And on on on yeah. Brian Kelly: I did with them, you feel like you get so much better and you get so much more in tune with how you are looking, and how the goalie is actually receiving that. I think it's when you are trying to be deceptive in shooting, it's very easy to feel like you're doing something, but it's a complete other thing to have a goalie actually react to it. Jamie Munro: Totally. For the listeners, corner constraints is just where you may have heard us talk about this before, but a corner constraint would simply be just saying, Okay, you limit the shooters to near side low and far side high. The goalies know it, the shooters know it. You could do this, in just pure shooting against a goalie, or you could do it in some kind of Uneven scenario where you know you're going to be getting shots, or a one-on-one, maybe with a little bit of an advantage start where you know there's a pretty good chance you're gonna get a shot. But when you limit the corners to near side low and far side high, let's say you're coming to the middle right-handed, you can either lift them up and make it look like you're going far side high and yank it low, or you can lean and look near side low and stick it, you know, stick a leaner far side high. Honestly, I I think it's the easiest best way to learn how to be a deceptive shooter because once you understand how to use those diagonals to your advantage, it's just not that hard to sell far side high and yank it. And you just keep hammering that low near side and until they start saving it, and then eventually you're going to be able to shoot a leaner. obviously some some sticks are a little bit more predisposed for a pull shot, and some sticks are little harder to pull with and are a little more predisposed for like a leaner. obviously the ideal hold no whip type of stick would allow you to do both. Brian Kelly: Exactly. Jamie Munro: you can obviously do far side low near side high too and that you know you can shoot that overhand also, but that tends to be a little bit more of a underhand, three quarter underhand release where you can kinda load a low, lift up your body, make it look like you're pulling it and yanking near side high and and make them late. or shoot like an elevator type of near side high and anyways those quarter constraints are kind of cool i was curious if you did that much Brian Kelly: No, not as much as I should. I gotta dive deeper into I think there's just so many different things that you can do with those. I think even mixing in like sides of the net or quadrants, it's Jamie Munro: Mm. Brian Kelly: I think you can really explore different areas to put even if it's not corners, if it's hips or whatever it might be. getting Jamie Munro: totally. Brian Kelly: goals to move laterally or getting them to go high, get them to drop low. Jamie Munro: The intentionality of shooting is something that not many kids have because they just tend to shoot on empty nets and they focus on power and accuracy all the time. And and they're not really thinking about, you know, what the goalie's doing and what the goalie's reading, like you were saying earlier. also, wouldn't you say that in your journey of learning about the constraints led approach, that this year you'll be so much better equipped to be able to leverage tons of constraints. I mean, at the end of the day, it wouldn't be that hard to throw in a corner constraint and just about anything you're doing to be able to make it more challenging or make your players more intentional about about where they're shooting and how they're trying to be deceptive. But speak a little bit about your own development, you know, with the CLA, starting with when you first got started with me and it hadn't really ever coached at all, to like now, how do you feel and talk a little bit about that journey. Brian Kelly: Yeah, definitely. at the start it was definitely a little overwhelming. but I think that I think the best part of it was it always made sense to me in theory. Not that I knew every nuance, but I could agree with it as soon as I kind of jumped on. it just made sense. people are going to gain skills faster if they learn those skills in the environments that those skills are portrayed in. it just made sense. So then diving into it became very fun and enjoyable and I was on the road a bunch. so podcasts and books became a good a good break from the the same playlist over and over. so it became fun and I think the biggest growth in it became just from doing it in practice. I think the more that you do it and the more that you buy into it and the more that you try and are okay with failing or okay with something like not working exactly how you want, and understanding that it's okay when that happens. I know when I first started and adding a constraint and maybe I wasn't getting the kids to to do exactly what I wanted. Like I would feel weird or inadequate in my coaching and my ability to kind of like get them to do what I want and get them to understand what I want. but now kind of after doing it for over a year now, it's become a much more fluid process where it's okay. And it's okay if they don't pick up on it right away. And it's okay if it looks sloppy at times. as long as what is happening on the field is what you want to get out of what's going on. Jamie Munro: Yeah. And if it aligns with principles of play. Brian Kelly: Exactly. Jamie Munro: I think the biggest thing is like it's not so much it's just okay if it doesn't work. It it is okay if they struggle because because they should. If it's if it's no one's struggling, it's probably too easy. But I think that the key is when you do something new and it's not working, meaning maybe it's too hard or what you're hoping to get out of it isn't. Coming from it, how can you tweak it? You know, that's that's kind of the art, right? Can Brian Kelly: Yes. Jamie Munro: you think of an example of something where, either in in the recent past or more distant past, that you, ran into a situation where you're trying to do something new? and it just what you were hoping for wasn't happening, and then you were able to kind of tweak it. Can you think of a of a of a drill or a game or a constraint that you were doing that way? Brian Kelly: let's say I definitely can. I feel like when we started diving into the crack angle process with picking, and getting defenders to not drop off under or as a picker not allowing defenders to get under picks. And it was great, but I feel like I was missing things. It was the defense was able to drop off under and it just kept happening. But guys were starting to do the right things picking wise. but it just wasn't working. and it became a problem because the defense just wasn't pressuring the ball at all. And they were just playing in an unrealistic setting where they were kind of just dropping off. so making the defense kind of play out more and pressure out more by making I forget what I added in, but I think I think I made them initiate the rep in a cross check. They had to kind of at an arm's length to start Yes, in in pickup. Jamie Munro: Yeah, yeah. I think you're talking specifically about pickup, right? With small Yeah. Yeah. So we play we and a lot of you in the listening know this, but we when we talk about pickup, we're talking about small nets and time smalls and we play lots of different games. And a lot of times we'll play all even games so that we can work on two-man game. and specifically we're working on the crack angle picking and then pick up naturally with such a small net. They just pack it in so much. And you can't just rip shots because oftentimes there's just a person in the net with no equipment on. And so like it's just like not that fun. And so I remember this. I think you were in Stanford and you basically got them to go out and play at an arm's length. That the the the constraint was defense, you have to get to an arm's length. And that allowed it to be a little bit more realistic for them to be able to drop under something and the picker adjust. And it was kind of like a, you know, not just like basically a screenshot every time. Brian Kelly: Exactly. It that was the problem. We kept kind of running into defense starting to drop off under and then they would just kinda shoot a screenshot and it's like all right, like how many times are we just gonna get that? we want to get to the actual picking. and then kind of adjusting it with the arm's length or making them play outside of an arc, maybe we might have done. We might have put an arc out there Jamie Munro: Yeah. Brian Kelly: and had them play on that. I think we tried a couple different ones. Jamie Munro: Yeah. Brian Kelly: but eventually kind of settling on the arm's length and then making it making it harder for the defense to actually get under it and actually have to navigate a pick in that small sided pickup setting. and then we actually got a lot Jamie Munro: It's so key. I Brian Kelly: out of it. Jamie Munro: it's so key to play more all even pickup games. I feel like that's something that we Brian Kelly: It is Jamie Munro: just gotta make sure we continue to do. Cause there's just no Brian Kelly: I Jamie Munro: there's just no better way to learn two-man game than yeah. Yeah, it's so important. Brian Kelly: That's that's the biggest thing. Jamie Munro: But but like you said, when they just pack it in all the time, what are some other constraints that you can think of when you want to play all even pickup? And you wanna like work on two man game, what are some other constraints that you'll use to try to get different looks from the defense and it and therefore give it to the offense? Brian Kelly: I think either giving the defense a scripted coverage, whether the defense has to go over picks, that's usually the only one I'll do. or making it so that the ball carrier can call the coverage. so the c ball carrier Jamie Munro: Mm. Brian Kelly: can call whether we'll give them two, whether it's an over and a switch or an over and under, usually over switch. in in those allowing the ball carrier to already know what coverage is going to happen. and then having the defense kind of react to it after the offensive player, it makes it that much easier for them to be able to one see the coverage, but then two, capitalize off of it. If Jamie Munro: Yeah. Brian Kelly: there a lot of times, especially with the younger athletes, when they're put into an on field segment and we're talking about coverage solutions. sometimes, especially at that younger age where athletes develop at different ages, like some guys just get f physically dominated while trying to figure out how to use picks, throwing it into a pickup game where now they can tell that defender to go over or to switch the pick. Now they get to recognize the scenario that they're putting themselves in. How the defense looks, when they're doing it, and now what are the affordances? What is the defense giving up? What plays can I make from here? Can we play with a feeder sometimes? So can I skip it to the feeder and then can they hit the picker? Or can I turn the corner on this, bringing my defender over, and then can I get a give and go after giving it to the feeder? Or can I turn the corner through a gap and go score? which is fun. And and it's fun when Sometimes in those on and even games, especially in pickup, it looks a little wonky at first and it takes a little while for them to get. one of those games that generally starts sloppy, but there's nothing better than like when the kids actually start picking it up picking it up, 'cause they do. they Jamie Munro: Yeah. Brian Kelly: always start to pick it up. and then by the end you have some of like the sickest plays that you see. You have guys Jamie Munro: Totally. Brian Kelly: that would have never seen it before, and getting juiced about nations or give and goes and that's all you can really ask for. Jamie Munro: So true. It is a heavy lift though. Like when you're trying to get kids Brian Kelly: It is Jamie Munro: to like learn two-man game in a pickup session and they're not very good at it and they're not really understanding it. But you know, man, if you if you can call over or switch or under whatever the call is, and you can't consistently create an advantage, there's very little chance you're going to be able to create an advantage against good defense. And because all it means is that you're not attuned. to what the coverage is and how to create that advantage. And then once you start figuring it out, you can be like over, over, over, and then bang, just reject because the guy knows he has to try to like get over this pick. And you can just begin to learn how to set set yourself up for whatever you want. And you can just bring people over and get two on you or get your give and go, like you said, or create the nations off of switches or off of getting two on you. so yeah, that is that's such a great example for everybody to kind of listen to. And it's also an example of where it doesn't feel very good, but you got to kind of stick with it because if you don't use lots of different constraints in your two-man game and do it in lots of different ways, you're not willing to just live with the fact that in the beginning they're they're not going to create advantages. but this crack angle concept, I mean, how huge has that been for you and your understanding of both coaching and playing? Brian Kelly: I think it's been insane. I mean it it kind of simplifies a lot of the picking thoughts with making it extremely accurate. I think the more that you I mean that's bare bones, don't let the guy get under. And if he does get under, make him go as far under as possible. And then you're going to create something out of it. I actually introed it to our guys at Vassar yesterday. and it just makes sense. Once once they start figuring it out, and once you have them look at a possession and notice it, when I was introing it last year, that's what I had guys do. I was like, look at all the picks at work and then look at the ones that don't. and when you see it through that lens, it becomes very clear this guy set a pick that the defender couldn't easily get easily get over. So now the defender had to try to squeeze over, or he had to go so far under, or he tried to get under and now is late to getting over. Every time it results in something beneficial for the offense. Jamie Munro: Mm-hmm. Brian Kelly: and I think the biggest part of it is the intentionality behind picking. I think so many times Jamie Munro: So true. Brian Kelly: in youth lacrosse, in college lacrosse, people are just told like set picks. And like in with good coaching, you're told to get through or to get in and then work out or backcut to get out. but as far as like setting your feet and where to set your feet, it's just like get shoulder to shoulder, run off shoulder to shoulder, and you're gonna create something and it's always a switch. The benefit of the crack angle is that you get that defender to go over, and now you're not blown up by the pick. The ball carrier knows what's going on. Your picker knows what's going on. And every pick now has an opportunity to create an advantage. Now that doesn't mean you're going to create an advantage on every pick. That would be an absurd request, but there's an opportunity for both players to make a read that's going to result in something. That is very ad advantageous for the other four guys on the offense. which is huge. Jamie Munro: It's so true. I mean, if you're not trying to create an advantage based on the coverage, then what are you actually doing? Just setting a pick, just running, Brian Kelly: You're hoping and praying. Yeah. Jamie Munro: hoping and praying. And you know, it'll work fine against bad defense. Brian Kelly: Exactly. Jamie Munro: but against good defense, it really won't. talk a little bit about your because I noticed this season that you got better from the dodging perspective in two man game. As it relates to the crack angle concept. You know what I'm talking about on that? Can you explain a little Brian Kelly: Yes. A hundred percent. Jamie Munro: bit what I to to the listeners what I mean on that? Brian Kelly: Yes, so it's a two man game because both guys are in the game. and I think that I was always lost to that concept. where yes, I knew I had to like bring my defender, but I didn't really know how much control I had over manipulating my defender to go over a pick or to get stuck on a side of a pick or to go under. as a dodger, you do have control over it. And I think being able to manipulate that is huge. for me, a lot of times like being able to get guys to go over or to get under at an angle where now I have a foot race that I can get leverage on to get across the front of the crease or to get up the hash. Now at those moments like I can play with that and I can play with an approach when they get under. Or hopefully I can get him over and then in a trail. which is huge. I throughout my career before kind of diving into the crack angle, my thought was just like, all right, like run shoulder to shoulder, it's on the picker to do it. and it's on the picker to make contact with my defender. And it's a pretty selfish way of thinking about picking, expecting him to do all the hard work and get blown up. Jamie Munro: Okay. Brian Kelly: So I think like having that control and knowing that I do kind of have a say in what my defender's doing and how he's gonna play it, maybe I leave a lot of room and act like I'm not gonna be able to make it to the pick so that he sees a gap to get over, and then you can kind of burst and then force him to run into it and get clipped by it rather than your picker taking a full chest to it. or can you hesitate before it, invite him over to then use it and turn the corner? there's so many ways to invite your defender to go either way on the pick. that it's fun to play with. I mean, I know you call it like the cat and mouse game all the time, but it's what it is. Like how can we get that defender stuck and then like get our step from there? Jamie Munro: Yeah, it's so important to recognize. I mean, basically the guy's gonna go one or the other, under or over. And if he's going over and you can get a step, you're putting him in a trailing position and you're gonna create an advantage. But if you go shoulder to shoulder, you're gonna get your pick blown up, which is funny because shoulder to shoulder is basically what everyone teaches as like, all right, first thing you're gonna do is run full speed shoulder to shoulder. And first of all, full speed, you can't really do either. You're gonna run right into a switch. You have to use Hesies. And you know, the ideal is to can I bring this guy over in a trail position, kind of like Luka Doncic when he gets somebody on his back. And if they, want to step up to you, now you've got two on you. And if they don't, you've got leverage, you've got position. Brian Kelly: Yeah. Jamie Munro: and really recognizing when they're dropping under, because if they're dropping under and you put on the brakes before you get to the pick, they have to put on the brakes too. And then Brian Kelly: Yes. Jamie Munro: all of a sudden, you know, that's what you were talking about that. foot race you're talking about where all of a sudden they they're not going to catch you going up there. last topic before we finish on the topic of getting some leverage and coming up the hash. I mean, PK, you're you're shooting coming up the hash in one-on-one situations. I mean you shot something like 38% this year and most of your goals were dodging goals. you know how do you do it? how do you shoot on the run coming up the hash and be able to like stick it on the goalie and also like not get checked. Brian Kelly: Definitely. I mean, I think there's like the two biggest points of emphasis. And I talk to our guys a lot about it, but I think like at GLE there's always going to be a contact point. and that defender always kind of wants to make contact around GLE. so in my mind it's like, how can I delay that or how can I expediate that contact Jamie Munro: Mm. Brian Kelly: point? can I catch him off guard with the contact and kind of bring it to him earlier than he's expecting? Or Can I delay that contact point with a posture change or with bouncing out or with a hesitation to where now he's kind of already extending and then he's like, wait, he's not turning the corner. Then you can kind of bring contact. And that's kind of gaining the leverage at G O E. and then from there, the biggest thing for me this year was like learning how to kind of hitch up the hash. Jamie Munro: Mm. Brian Kelly: And I still have to keep working on it. I don't think I get it quite as well. but the ability to kind of like bait checks and draw checks throughout running up to hash and baiting those checks onto your hands and then being able to release when you kind of feel that pressure relief, right? being able to hide your hands, get your hands back, be ready to shoot, and then you kind of feel that check slip off and then it's like, all right, like now I can let it fly. and just kind of being patient with that. Jamie Munro: So the first part is just the combination of contacts where you catch them off guard or hesis where you get the step. And then the second part is getting your shot off without being checked, drawing a check where they're like a little bit early. And I always use the analogy that when you get a step on a guy to the middle or up the hash, that the the defender has like it's like having one bullet left in your gun. And if if you hitch and They use their bullet, they don't have another one and you're gonna be able to get a shot off. Brian Kelly: Exactly. And they never can check twice. Jamie Munro: They can't check twice in a row quickly, that's for sure. awesome, BK. Well, I know we talk a lot of lacrosse on a pretty much daily basis, but so great to have you on the podcast and and let you share what you've learned, share your journey. you are just an incredible story in the PLL this year and fired up for a great year with Vassar and a and a great year of JM3 stuff. So thanks for coming on, buddy, and I'll be in touch soon. Brian Kelly: Yes, thanks for having me. Sara Munro: Thanks for listening to the JM three lacrosse podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, rate, and share with a teammate or coach who loves the game. We'll see you next time.