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Managing Spending Guilt · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: Just before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge and
0:03
Speaker 1: pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and torrest Rate islander peoples.
0:07
Speaker 1: They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and
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Speaker 1: the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing
0:13
Speaker 1: and for caring for the land on which we are
0:16
Speaker 1: able to learn. We pay respects to elders past and present,
0:19
Speaker 1: and we share our friendship and our kindness.
0:22
Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
0:45
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
0:48
Speaker 3: for millennials who want financial freedom. Over the last few years,
0:52
Speaker 3: we have seen so many of you transform your relationships
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Speaker 3: with money. We've seen prolific spenders become savvy savers. We've
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Speaker 3: seen micro investors opening on share folios, and we've seen
1:01
Speaker 3: after pay addicts closing their accounts for good legends. What
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Speaker 3: we've also noticed, though, is that many of us who
1:07
Speaker 3: have worked so hard to overhaul our finances and now
1:10
Speaker 3: starting to feel a sense of guilt around our spending.
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Speaker 3: Not only is this feeling a drainer, but surprisingly it
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Speaker 3: can also serve to jeopardize our finances. My name is
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Speaker 3: Georgia King, and joining me to unpack how we can
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Speaker 3: manage spending guilt is financial advisor Victoria Devine. Hello, what
1:27
Speaker 3: was the last thing you felt guilty about purchasing? My girl?
1:30
Speaker 2: Oh?
1:31
Speaker 1: Are we really doing? This?
1:32
Speaker 3: Was your engagement party quite recently? Ask about I know
1:37
Speaker 3: you can ask about the shoes, isn't it could be
1:39
Speaker 3: the shoes. Yeah, I spend a lot of money on
1:41
Speaker 3: a pair of shoes. I regret nothing good. I don't
1:43
Speaker 3: feel guilty.
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Speaker 1: Interesting because it was email budget. It's one of those
1:46
Speaker 1: things who for those of you playing along at home,
1:48
Speaker 1: I bought a very very nice pair of Jimmy Choo shoes.
1:51
Speaker 1: They have pink bows, ones on the front, ones on
1:54
Speaker 1: the back, very sassy, very I felt very mean, like
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Speaker 1: very basically you were basically the blush of shees on
2:00
Speaker 1: the money, same color, like I just felt like I
2:03
Speaker 1: needed them, but they were a part of the budget.
2:05
Speaker 1: And what was not a part of the budget was
2:08
Speaker 1: a headband. And I really wanted a headband, but I
2:10
Speaker 1: wasn't going to spend thousands of dollars on the one
2:12
Speaker 1: that I actually wanted, so I just crafted it myself,
2:15
Speaker 1: jeeking with a sassy little three dollar clearance Kmart headband
2:20
Speaker 1: and I hands stitched some pearls onto it from a
2:23
Speaker 1: necklace I bought from Diva in circa twenty ten.
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Speaker 3: Stop it. It worked well and well it looked impressive.
2:29
Speaker 3: We were talking before the show and apparently you got
2:31
Speaker 3: lots of dms about where you I have found this.
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Speaker 1: But I made it, guys. But it's all about balance,
2:37
Speaker 1: and it's all about purchasing in line with your values.
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Speaker 1: And it's not something that I do all the time,
2:42
Speaker 1: going and buying a pair of designer shoes. And you
2:43
Speaker 1: know what, I don't even know if that's the most
2:45
Speaker 1: relatable example, but I wanted to give it because it's
2:47
Speaker 1: a real one from my life and it's just one
2:50
Speaker 1: of those things that it made me feel special. I
2:52
Speaker 1: have worked my hardest over the last couple of years,
2:55
Speaker 1: and do you know what I feel like? I deserve
2:56
Speaker 1: to feel really nice, and so do you, guys. It's
2:59
Speaker 1: not necessary achievement. It's not about having to mark very
3:03
Speaker 1: important things with big purchases. It's more about looking after
3:06
Speaker 1: yourself and knowing that self care is really important and
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Speaker 1: it does actually stretch into our finances. But we're going
3:12
Speaker 1: to break down exactly why you might be feeling guilty
3:14
Speaker 1: and how that works and how to overcome it throughout
3:17
Speaker 1: the show.
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Speaker 3: Ji, Yeah, it's definitely something that I've struggled with in
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Speaker 3: the past, so I am very excited about I feel.
3:22
Speaker 1: Like you're a frugal little spender. I was give us
3:25
Speaker 1: the goss. How'd you get through that? Why did you
3:27
Speaker 1: get through that?
3:27
Speaker 3: In terms of overcoming that feeling of it?
3:30
Speaker 1: Used to be so frugal in a good way, Like
3:32
Speaker 1: that's why you have a very healthy savings account. It's
3:36
Speaker 1: not a bad habit to have, but feeling guilty about purchases,
3:39
Speaker 1: that is a bad habit. You know what.
3:41
Speaker 3: I think it is really tied to my personality. I'm
3:44
Speaker 3: someone who like prides myself on myself discipline, which might
3:47
Speaker 3: be surprising because I feel like on the podcast I
3:49
Speaker 3: come across as a bit of a goose.
3:51
Speaker 1: You're not a ghost. Nobody thinks you're a goost.
3:54
Speaker 3: Well maybe that was a very goose like voice, but
3:56
Speaker 3: I think it got pretty unhealthy. Not nothing too serious,
4:00
Speaker 3: but yeah, it just I was not really reaping any
4:04
Speaker 3: reward from how hard I was working, and I just
4:06
Speaker 3: kind of it kind of clicked for me that you
4:08
Speaker 3: can enjoy the fruits of your labor.
4:11
Speaker 1: Bo can our last dome?
4:12
Speaker 3: Yes? And you know, also I probably started earning a
4:14
Speaker 3: little bit more money as well as I graduate a little.
4:17
Speaker 1: Bit urther and came a work She's on the money correct.
4:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I don't know. I guess that's my little story.
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Speaker 1: But I like that and I think it's really relatable.
4:25
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of us, especially on our
4:26
Speaker 1: money journeys, we've got our heads in the sand about
4:28
Speaker 1: our spending and then we pull them out and we
4:30
Speaker 1: get our budget together, and we get our finances together,
4:32
Speaker 1: and we're talking about cash flow and we've done what
4:34
Speaker 1: we think is the best thing for us. But then
4:36
Speaker 1: we start to feel really guilty about looking after ourselves.
4:39
Speaker 1: Or you know, a couple of weeks ago, we had
4:41
Speaker 1: somebody write in and their money when it was buying
4:43
Speaker 1: jeans and not feeling guilty about it.
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Speaker 2: Really I like that.
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Speaker 1: I really loved that, because you deserve to be looked
4:48
Speaker 1: after as well, Like you're not working this hard for
4:51
Speaker 1: just future you. I think life is about the journey
4:54
Speaker 1: as much as it is about the destination, which if
4:56
Speaker 1: you've ever met my dad, Eric design, he says all
5:00
Speaker 1: all the time. And I think it's about, you know,
5:01
Speaker 1: making sure that you're looked after, but also looking after
5:04
Speaker 1: yourself in the interim exactly. And that needs to be
5:06
Speaker 1: built into our budgets and our cash flow because otherwise
5:09
Speaker 1: we end up burnt out, or we might end up
5:11
Speaker 1: absolutely blowing at all, or not liking the budgeting process
5:14
Speaker 1: or not liking managing money at all because it just
5:17
Speaker 1: consistently stresses you out.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. Let's talk about guilty pleasures.
5:21
Speaker 1: Fee, Pana chocolate, Pana chocolate and Pana ice cream or
5:26
Speaker 1: now you can get it on sale for like seven
5:27
Speaker 1: dollars a tab at Cols. Sometimes Pana ice cream and
5:30
Speaker 1: ice cream.
5:30
Speaker 3: Have you tried the banana one?
5:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, the banana the Banoffi one is the best. But
5:35
Speaker 1: you're talking about money guilty questions, So back on track, Fee,
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Speaker 1: We love our pana, But do you believe in guilty
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Speaker 1: pleasures as like an idea as a concept? Absolutely? I
5:43
Speaker 1: Do we all deserve a little pick me up sometimes,
5:46
Speaker 1: whether that is ice cream or financial or it is
5:49
Speaker 1: you know, looking after ourselves and giving ourselves a little
5:52
Speaker 1: pedicure after a long week at work. Like, it doesn't
5:55
Speaker 1: matter what it is, it doesn't have to be expensive,
5:58
Speaker 1: or it could be really expensive, like the time I
6:00
Speaker 1: bought those shoes for my engagement and I regret absolutely
6:03
Speaker 1: nothing about it. Someone asked me if I was trying
6:05
Speaker 1: to sell them. I was like, oh, no, very achievement
6:07
Speaker 1: to me. I'm probably going to box them, like in
6:09
Speaker 1: a clear box and put them in my wardrobe. So
6:11
Speaker 1: I look at them every day because I'm obsessed. But
6:14
Speaker 1: having guilty pleasures is so important because it's again really
6:17
Speaker 1: tired to self care. So before we keep talking about
6:20
Speaker 1: our guilty pleasures of making them, okay, let's actually unpack
6:23
Speaker 1: for a minute what is guilty. Let's talk about how
6:26
Speaker 1: that works. So when you hurt somebody else, guilt is
6:29
Speaker 1: an absolutely natural and very important emotional response that encourages
6:34
Speaker 1: the repair of valuable relationships and discourages acts that could
6:38
Speaker 1: damage them. So that's kind of nice to know that
6:40
Speaker 1: as humans, that's ingrained in us. I think there are
6:43
Speaker 1: some people who don't have that, and that's kind of scary,
6:45
Speaker 1: but that's all right. But what about when you hurt
6:47
Speaker 1: yourself by going against your own standards or your own plans.
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Speaker 1: Guilty is a very important indicator of this, and it
6:53
Speaker 1: actually can be super productive if you're paying attention to
6:56
Speaker 1: it and you're looking at what that's trying to tell you.
6:59
Speaker 1: So we're not saying have no guilt, ever, like don't
7:01
Speaker 1: feel guilty over your spending, Like you probably should be
7:05
Speaker 1: experiencing a bit of guilt if you've been budgeting and
7:08
Speaker 1: saving for ages and then you go and blow it
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Speaker 1: on something that wasn't aligned to your values or your goals.
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Speaker 1: But there's probably a reason you've done that. We need
7:14
Speaker 1: to deeply understand that as opposed to crucifying ourselves. And
7:17
Speaker 1: I think we also hold a lot of guilt about
7:20
Speaker 1: our historics. Right, So, like people often say to me like,
7:23
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I wish that I had done better,
7:26
Speaker 1: I wish I knew better, or I'm so stupid I
7:29
Speaker 1: never did X, Y and Z. But I do genuinely
7:31
Speaker 1: believe that that doesn't help anybody, like harboring guilt for
7:35
Speaker 1: past decisions that arguably never hurt anybody except for your
7:39
Speaker 1: financial position. Like that's past you, and they did the
7:42
Speaker 1: best that they could with the tools and the resources
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Speaker 1: they had at the time. It's not necessarily about going
7:47
Speaker 1: wish I knew better. G I can't believe it I
7:49
Speaker 1: was so dumb. You weren't so dumb. You just didn't
7:50
Speaker 1: have the tools and resources that you have today. And
7:53
Speaker 1: that's fine, and we're learning and growing. But when you're spending,
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Speaker 1: it is a cognitive battle for hills between your emotions
7:59
Speaker 1: and then the rational parts of your brain. As the
8:01
Speaker 1: part of the brain that's involved in spending is actually
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Speaker 1: the same part that loves the good dopamine hit g
8:07
Speaker 1: and like spending that gives you that dopamine hit. That's
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Speaker 1: why some people have spending addictions and shopping addictions, because
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Speaker 1: it's not actually about the item they're purchasing. It's about
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Speaker 1: the thrill that they experience when they part with some money,
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Speaker 1: which is really traumatic and can be really hard for
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Speaker 1: a lot of people. And I think too often it's
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Speaker 1: trivialized in a way that makes people feel like crap
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Speaker 1: about themselves. G Like the Diaries of a shopoholic? Like cool?
8:33
Speaker 1: Would you have a TV show called the Diaries of
8:35
Speaker 1: an alcoholic? Yeah?
8:36
Speaker 3: No? No?
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Speaker 1: Like it just makes me feel a bit ick, But
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Speaker 1: that's me because I am so wildly passionate about and
8:43
Speaker 1: cover myself. That sounds weird. I don't cover myself in money,
8:46
Speaker 1: but I definitely surround myself with money conversations, so I
8:49
Speaker 1: feel like I understand it a bit deeper than the
8:52
Speaker 1: average bear.
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Speaker 3: So do you not go home and have baths in cash?
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Speaker 1: I don't know.
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Speaker 3: I thought that's what you did.
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Speaker 1: It's actually yeah, no, no, no, I just like use
9:00
Speaker 1: it as the like the wash cloth in the shower.
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Speaker 3: Oh, gorgeous, gorgeous. I want to give you some stats.
9:06
Speaker 3: I love stat stats, skills, marriaging. It's been a while
9:09
Speaker 3: I wanted to take a look at the money that
9:11
Speaker 3: Australians have and are allocating. So, according to the ABS
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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one, the average household spends one four
9:19
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty five dollars per week on essential and
9:22
Speaker 3: non essential living expenses, with the top expenses being housing
9:25
Speaker 3: costs at two hundred and seventy nine dollars. Makes sense,
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Speaker 3: Food and non alcoholic beverages two hundred and thirty seven dollars.
9:31
Speaker 3: That comes in at transport is then two hundred and
9:34
Speaker 3: seven dollars, and recreation is one hundred and seventy two.
9:37
Speaker 1: I wish I knew what they were doing for recreation.
9:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I guess that's you know, catching up at
9:42
Speaker 3: the bar for a little bevy.
9:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right. I feel like I don't have enough hobbies.
9:46
Speaker 1: I feel like I need more recreation in my life.
9:49
Speaker 1: I just work. You know, you meet them at parties,
9:50
Speaker 1: They're like, what do you do? And you kind of go.
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Speaker 1: I don't really want to tell them what I do
9:53
Speaker 1: for work, but they're like, what do you do for fun?
9:55
Speaker 1: And I don't really know. Work is fun, work is
9:58
Speaker 1: really fun.
10:00
Speaker 3: Let's look at low income households now, so they dedicate
10:03
Speaker 3: a relatively higher portion of their spending to housings. That's
10:06
Speaker 3: trying to makes sense because housing's expense exactly. Food and
10:10
Speaker 3: non alcoholic beverages come in at nineteen percent, Domestic fuel
10:13
Speaker 3: and power is then five percent, and that's compared to
10:16
Speaker 3: high income households, which are so eighteen percent, fourteen percent,
10:20
Speaker 3: and two percent respectively.
10:22
Speaker 1: Wow, that's quite interesting. I feel like it's super interesting.
10:25
Speaker 1: But I also think that we need to realize that
10:27
Speaker 1: spending money is necessary to live in our world. We
10:30
Speaker 1: shouldn't feel guilty about spending at all. And it's not
10:34
Speaker 1: like you're listening to this episode for me to give
10:36
Speaker 1: you permission and go, all right, ge, don't feel guilty
10:38
Speaker 1: anymore about spending money. It's more about going, well, why
10:41
Speaker 1: do you feel guilty? How does this work? Can we
10:43
Speaker 1: break this down a little bit more, because from my perspective,
10:46
Speaker 1: spending around guilt comes from a couple of places. It
10:49
Speaker 1: could be ingrained in your money story. You could have
10:51
Speaker 1: had a money story where you feel really guilty because
10:54
Speaker 1: you grew up maybe in poverty, and now you're absolutely thriving,
10:58
Speaker 1: and you just feel really awful about the fact that
11:00
Speaker 1: you know your parents couldn't do what you get to
11:03
Speaker 1: do today, and that can lead to some guilt which
11:05
Speaker 1: I genuinely think you should get some therapy for. Like,
11:08
Speaker 1: genuinely there is nothing better than therapy, and I'm sure
11:11
Speaker 1: that basically everybody in the Shees on the Money team
11:13
Speaker 1: is going to tell you that. But it's one of
11:15
Speaker 1: those things where it could be so ingrained in your
11:17
Speaker 1: money story that you didn't even know that that's where
11:19
Speaker 1: it was coming from. It could be the flip side
11:21
Speaker 1: where you just feel out of control and therefore guilty
11:24
Speaker 1: because you're like, oh my gosh, I just bought this
11:25
Speaker 1: new skirt and I think I have rent or I
11:28
Speaker 1: think I have a bill coming up. Because you're not
11:30
Speaker 1: clear on your budget or your cash flow or what's
11:32
Speaker 1: coming up. We're in reality, a budget should actually be
11:35
Speaker 1: a tool that empowers us. It shouldn't be a tool
11:37
Speaker 1: where it limits us and goes all, right, JA, so
11:39
Speaker 1: we've done your budget, seventy bucks a week on groceries done,
11:42
Speaker 1: Wham bam, thank you, ma'am. Like that is not how
11:45
Speaker 1: it works. It's actually about truly understanding how much money
11:48
Speaker 1: is coming into your account and how much leaves it
11:50
Speaker 1: and for what. It's not about judging ourselves on those splits.
11:53
Speaker 1: And that's actually why in my book and in everything
11:56
Speaker 1: that we have spoken about historically, it's really about your money.
12:00
Speaker 1: It's not about percentages. And I know the other advisors
12:03
Speaker 1: historically have always said, oh, spend you know, thirty percent
12:06
Speaker 1: on this and twenty percent on this and save ten percent. Like,
12:08
Speaker 1: I just don't think that works for anybody. And the
12:11
Speaker 1: stats you just shared were really reflective of that, because
12:14
Speaker 1: you look at people who are on lower incomes, and
12:17
Speaker 1: of course they are going to spend a higher percentage
12:20
Speaker 1: of their income on housing because housing is really expensive.
12:24
Speaker 1: But if you are making bank and decide to live in,
12:27
Speaker 1: you know, a cheaper house, you can spend like five
12:30
Speaker 1: percent on rent. So I think it's really unfair to
12:33
Speaker 1: set similar standards or similar percentage points for people, because
12:37
Speaker 1: if you're on a forty thousand dollar income, that split
12:40
Speaker 1: is going to be very significantly different to someone who's
12:43
Speaker 1: earning four hundred thousand dollars. It's so important to contextualize that,
12:47
Speaker 1: but also give yourself permission to spend on yourself and
12:49
Speaker 1: go all right, well regardless of whether I am a
12:51
Speaker 1: low income or a high income, and I still deserve
12:53
Speaker 1: something for me if it's in budget. And I mean,
12:56
Speaker 1: this is a very privileged position to be in, Like
12:58
Speaker 1: you might feel really guilty because you're leaving off benefits
13:01
Speaker 1: and you have two kids to feed and you just
13:03
Speaker 1: don't have the capacity to save. And I'm very very
13:05
Speaker 1: aware that that is a situation that exists in our country.
13:09
Speaker 1: It's not to say that you should feel guilty about
13:11
Speaker 1: spending like, I just want you as well to be
13:14
Speaker 1: empowered about the decisions you're making around money. It's not
13:17
Speaker 1: to say, oh my gosh, well you should be saving instead.
13:20
Speaker 1: That's not it at all. It's about relieving the guilt
13:23
Speaker 1: you feel when you make a transaction. And sometimes people
13:25
Speaker 1: feel guilty around their energy bill, like that's a hygiene factor. G.
13:29
Speaker 1: We have to pay our energy bill and others are
13:31
Speaker 1: just feeling guilty when they spend an extra couple of
13:33
Speaker 1: dollars on a latte once a week. I think we
13:35
Speaker 1: really need to give ourselves permission to live the lives
13:38
Speaker 1: where you want to, because you freaking deserve to.
13:41
Speaker 3: But in saying that as well, don't just put it
13:42
Speaker 3: all on after pay and worry about it later.
13:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, it's no, it's spending the money
13:47
Speaker 1: you have. We're not talking about going into debt like
13:50
Speaker 1: that's another story. Yes, you're really trying to make me rant.
13:53
Speaker 1: Oh triggered.
13:55
Speaker 3: Let's stay on track. How prevalent is guilt around spend?
14:00
Speaker 3: I know we see it in the community all the time.
14:02
Speaker 3: We do so like anecdotally, we see it really often. Yes,
14:06
Speaker 3: we've seen it so often. G. We did a whole
14:08
Speaker 3: episode on it.
14:09
Speaker 1: You're welcome. But a study done in twenty eighteen actually
14:12
Speaker 1: revealed that seventy two percent of Australians g had guilt
14:17
Speaker 1: when spending, and twenty two percent of those experienced that
14:21
Speaker 1: feeling regularly.
14:22
Speaker 3: How awful interesting?
14:24
Speaker 1: Seventy two percent of our community feel guilt when spending
14:28
Speaker 1: and then twenty two percent of that group they feel
14:30
Speaker 1: that consistently. That's a really big number of people.
14:33
Speaker 3: G massive, that's really I didn't expect it to be
14:35
Speaker 3: that large, actually no, I thought that like maybe like
14:37
Speaker 3: thirty percent of people felt guilty, but like seventy two
14:40
Speaker 3: percent is massive.
14:41
Speaker 1: And then further to that, an American study done in
14:44
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen by our leading crowdsource shopping platform commissioned a
14:49
Speaker 1: survey of two thousand Americans, and that revealed that more
14:52
Speaker 1: than half of Americans say they feel guilty about spending money.
14:55
Speaker 1: That kind of makes sense, but Australia we feel even
14:58
Speaker 1: more guilty.
14:58
Speaker 3: There's also a difference in gender, right, of.
15:01
Speaker 1: Course, is there's always a different in gender. Twenty two
15:04
Speaker 1: percent of our Australian respondents they actually refrain from buying
15:08
Speaker 1: things that they couldn't afford, and females actually three times
15:11
Speaker 1: more likely than a male to feel guilty around this
15:14
Speaker 1: spending habits. Go figure, Jeeking, It's not surprising, is it. No?
15:17
Speaker 3: What do you put that down to though? Just our
15:19
Speaker 3: general likesting?
15:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think the general pressure on us to
15:25
Speaker 1: exist and be profitable and fruitful and all of those
15:28
Speaker 1: other things, Like I just think that the pressure on
15:30
Speaker 1: women is so much more significant than it is on men.
15:33
Speaker 1: And I mean, I could rant about how the entire
15:35
Speaker 1: world was made for men here, like from the way
15:38
Speaker 1: our bank accounts work, to medications and testing all the
15:41
Speaker 1: way through to the way that jobs work. Like the
15:44
Speaker 1: world was basically made for men, and then there's women.
15:46
Speaker 1: We came in and had to slot into the way
15:49
Speaker 1: that they work. And I say this not just because
15:52
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, we have to slot into a man's world,
15:54
Speaker 1: but there is literally scientific research that says that men
15:58
Speaker 1: actually exist on a twenty four hour circadium cycle, So
16:03
Speaker 1: they have hormones in their body same way as we do,
16:06
Speaker 1: but their hormones peak in the morning and then all
16:09
Speaker 1: throughout the day they dwindle and they get tired and
16:11
Speaker 1: they go back and they are literally most productive between
16:14
Speaker 1: nine and five PM. Go figure. But then women, our
16:17
Speaker 1: cycle g goes through twenty eight days, and there are
16:21
Speaker 1: different times at which we have different hormones running through
16:23
Speaker 1: our bodies based on how our bodies work. So literally,
16:26
Speaker 1: the nine to five grind doesn't work for women, but
16:29
Speaker 1: we've slotted into it anyway. So I feel like we
16:32
Speaker 1: are already uncomfortable with the way we generate income and
16:36
Speaker 1: do life, so I'm genuinely not surprised that women are
16:40
Speaker 1: feeling worse about this, because we just feel worse about
16:43
Speaker 1: the way everything works.
16:44
Speaker 3: Really, that's interesting.
16:46
Speaker 1: It's super pervy, isn't it.
16:47
Speaker 3: You're like, what, so you know, I feel like there's
16:49
Speaker 3: almost a perception that the interests of women are more frivolous,
16:53
Speaker 3: so we might spend money on makeup and pretty addresses
16:56
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, whereas men, I don't know what
16:58
Speaker 3: they're buying. Soccerble is that? Yeah, that's where my mind went.
17:02
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what my partner does, soccer balls, golf balls,
17:04
Speaker 1: golf outfits. Recently kids, we love golf kits.
17:07
Speaker 3: So do you think there is then this idea that
17:11
Speaker 3: our interests are silly, so we should feel guilty for
17:14
Speaker 3: spending our money on such silly little things, little girly
17:17
Speaker 3: things like Is there any truth in that? Do you think?
17:19
Speaker 1: Absolutely not? Because as much as that's ingrained in us,
17:22
Speaker 1: and obviously we are very much of the opinion that
17:24
Speaker 1: you should only ever do things that make you happy.
17:27
Speaker 1: It's not for other people, but like those things were
17:30
Speaker 1: made to please men, like there were handbooks on how
17:33
Speaker 1: we should behave and how we should apply makeup before
17:35
Speaker 1: our husbands came home in the nineteen fifties, Like, these
17:38
Speaker 1: things are basically to appease men, like and I don't
17:42
Speaker 1: dress for men. I dress to impress other women. Otherwise
17:45
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have bought expensive shoes, you know, because no
17:48
Speaker 1: man that I am aware of that is straight is
17:50
Speaker 1: ever going to be like, oh v god.
17:53
Speaker 3: Shoes, love the double box, love the double bo who
17:56
Speaker 3: designed bows.
17:57
Speaker 1: I mean, all my gay friends, they were like, oh
17:59
Speaker 1: my god, them Yeah, they're like literally they all knew.
18:03
Speaker 1: But it's one of those things where I think that
18:04
Speaker 1: it's ingrained in us, but we really need to distill
18:07
Speaker 1: down why it's ingrained in us and whether that actually
18:09
Speaker 1: makes us happy And is it such a bad thing
18:11
Speaker 1: to be spending money on things that make us happy
18:14
Speaker 1: and more productive and makes us feel good to go
18:17
Speaker 1: to work, Like no, it's the cost of being alive.
18:19
Speaker 3: Interesting. I love where this episode is going. It's become
18:22
Speaker 3: quite the feminist little rant, and that's what we're about here.
18:25
Speaker 1: Money that is very unlike me.
18:28
Speaker 3: Unlike us. I think for now we'll go to a
18:30
Speaker 3: little break and then we'll jump back on the other side.
18:33
Speaker 3: Victoria Devine, what causes guilt and what do you think
18:37
Speaker 3: that tells us about ourselves? And like human psychology, you
18:40
Speaker 3: have a background in psych talks through it.
18:42
Speaker 1: Oh look, I'm not practicing psych Can you imagine if
18:45
Speaker 1: I was? It's I just go on rants, Like I
18:48
Speaker 1: just don't know how someone who has such strong opinions
18:51
Speaker 1: like I do would ever be a really really good psychologist,
18:55
Speaker 1: because like, can you imagine I'd be sitting in like
18:57
Speaker 1: a therapy session with someone and they'd be telling me
18:59
Speaker 1: about their shitty partner, and I'd be like, all right, Georgia,
19:02
Speaker 1: you just leave, you just gotta leave. Like I would
19:05
Speaker 1: not be a helpful therapist. Maybe that's helpful though. I
19:10
Speaker 1: would have been kicked out of the industry. That's why
19:12
Speaker 1: I ended up in finance, because they're all dodgy here, right.
19:16
Speaker 1: But yeah, guilt again, we covered this at the start,
19:19
Speaker 1: but it's really good to recap. It's a symptom of
19:22
Speaker 1: inaction or not being in control, and most of us,
19:25
Speaker 1: especially women, love to feel like we are in control.
19:28
Speaker 1: So it's really about understanding a money story and where
19:30
Speaker 1: that's coming from and why we might feel that way,
19:33
Speaker 1: and a money story isn't necessarily just how you grew
19:36
Speaker 1: up around money. It could be Gee, you're just feeling
19:38
Speaker 1: really guilty because you've got a pay rise and it's
19:41
Speaker 1: a really nice pay rise, but you haven't done anything
19:43
Speaker 1: with it. You've just started spending some money and then
19:45
Speaker 1: you know, looked at your bank account at the end
19:47
Speaker 1: of the month and you're like, wow, like, I already
19:49
Speaker 1: spent everything that I earned in addition to what I
19:51
Speaker 1: used to, and you're feeling a bit of guilt about that.
19:53
Speaker 1: So I don't think it's always a really really bad thing,
19:56
Speaker 1: but I think if you are feeling guilt around money,
19:58
Speaker 1: we actually need to sit down have a chat. You
20:00
Speaker 1: and I need to go through your budget and through
20:02
Speaker 1: your cash flow and go why are you feeling like this?
20:05
Speaker 1: And are the purchases you are making reasonable or not,
20:09
Speaker 1: because sometimes they are going to be more than reasonable
20:11
Speaker 1: and you should harbor absolutely no guilt about them at all.
20:14
Speaker 1: Like you need a new pair of jeans, or you
20:16
Speaker 1: need to buy a new pair of shoes for work.
20:17
Speaker 1: And this is like a reminder to all of my
20:19
Speaker 1: nurse friends who haven't bought new shoes for work. That
20:22
Speaker 1: they keep telling themselves to do go and do that.
20:24
Speaker 1: But it's one of those things that maybe if you
20:27
Speaker 1: are being a little bit naughty with your spending and
20:29
Speaker 1: you're not on top of your budget and cash flow,
20:31
Speaker 1: that guilt could be an indicator that we just need
20:33
Speaker 1: to make some changes, We need to tighten things up
20:35
Speaker 1: and do a little bit of reflecting. But at the
20:37
Speaker 1: end of the day, both of those outcomes are going
20:39
Speaker 1: to be managed by a good and solid cash flow plan.
20:42
Speaker 1: It's not about being on a strict budget. It's about
20:44
Speaker 1: understanding every dollar that comes in and every dollar that
20:47
Speaker 1: goes out.
20:47
Speaker 3: Gee amazing, And we will dig into those solutions a
20:51
Speaker 3: little later in the show. I want us to ask
20:53
Speaker 3: you if spending guilt is different to other kinds of
20:56
Speaker 3: money related guilt.
20:57
Speaker 1: I think it is, But I think guilt around money
20:59
Speaker 1: is a very common theme in our community. Whether that
21:03
Speaker 1: is guilt from having money or saving money, or you
21:06
Speaker 1: feel as though maybe you don't deserve the money that
21:09
Speaker 1: you have been afforded from an inheritance, which we've covered
21:12
Speaker 1: in an entire episode on its own g But then
21:14
Speaker 1: there's also guilt where you have our earned parents or
21:18
Speaker 1: our earned family members or even for just friends. And
21:21
Speaker 1: I think that we really need to break that down
21:23
Speaker 1: about why, when, where, how, how does that work? And
21:26
Speaker 1: communication is the key here. We need to be talking
21:28
Speaker 1: about what we are earning and talking about what we're spending,
21:31
Speaker 1: and surrounding ourselves with people who are so supportive of us.
21:35
Speaker 1: No one should be making you feel shitty about how
21:37
Speaker 1: much you earn, whether it's too little or too much,
21:39
Speaker 1: Like that is not a conversation anybody should be having
21:41
Speaker 1: with you. They should be so supportive of whatever you're
21:44
Speaker 1: up to.
21:44
Speaker 3: Let's have a little chat now about our friends at
21:47
Speaker 3: after pay.
21:48
Speaker 1: V Oh, and that's a very liberal term to have
21:51
Speaker 1: used in the same sentence as after Pay.
21:54
Speaker 3: Anyone who's ever listened to this show, I would say,
21:56
Speaker 3: is pretty aware of our true feelings about after Pay.
22:00
Speaker 3: Would you say that one of its biggest dangers is
22:04
Speaker 3: that we actually bypass the important regulator of guilt when
22:08
Speaker 3: using it.
22:09
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. How many times and you know I haven't
22:12
Speaker 1: done this, but how many times have people been like
22:14
Speaker 1: on the iconic and they're like, oh my god, that's
22:16
Speaker 1: a gorgeous dress. So much easier to swallow if it's
22:18
Speaker 1: just fifty bucks. Every so often right, like, that's much easier,
22:22
Speaker 1: So they're kind of taking the pain out of the transaction.
22:26
Speaker 1: And that's something that I'm really passionate about talking about,
22:29
Speaker 1: and that's why I have the banking structure that I have,
22:32
Speaker 1: where I think I've spoken about it historically, and if not,
22:35
Speaker 1: go back and listen to our budget and cash flow episodes.
22:38
Speaker 1: But I'm very passionate about having a food, fuel, and
22:41
Speaker 1: fun account, and that's where all my money for my
22:43
Speaker 1: groceries and my brunches and my drinks with my friends go,
22:46
Speaker 1: any fun I'm having, and when I go to the
22:48
Speaker 1: petrol station, and that's basically a debit card that I
22:51
Speaker 1: just tap when I am spending that money, and I
22:54
Speaker 1: never feel guilty because it's pre allocated. But the reason
22:57
Speaker 1: it's pre allocated is because I know in my head
23:00
Speaker 1: how much each week gets transferred to that account and
23:02
Speaker 1: what I can spend and I still am in control
23:05
Speaker 1: of that transaction and how much it kind of hurts
23:08
Speaker 1: in a way. I don't want to use the word hurt,
23:10
Speaker 1: but you know exactly what I mean. But I want
23:12
Speaker 1: to feel that I want to go okay. I know
23:15
Speaker 1: that I've got two hundred and fifty dollars in that
23:17
Speaker 1: account and I'm going to go out for brunch and
23:19
Speaker 1: I'm going to shout George. So that's fifty, okay, I'll
23:22
Speaker 1: have two hundred at the end of it, and I
23:23
Speaker 1: keep track of it in that way, whereas you tend
23:25
Speaker 1: to lose control of what you owe and how you
23:28
Speaker 1: owe it and where it's going when you're like, oh,
23:30
Speaker 1: I'll just chuck it on after pay because it doesn't
23:32
Speaker 1: feel like a real transaction. You feel like you're getting
23:36
Speaker 1: that outcome, like you're like you get that dopamine hit
23:39
Speaker 1: of the transaction, you get the dopamine hit of getting
23:41
Speaker 1: the gorgeous new dress, but you don't get any of
23:44
Speaker 1: the pain of separating yourself from that money. And I
23:47
Speaker 1: think it's really detrimental because it's manifesting in I guess
23:51
Speaker 1: short term gratification being the norm. And if you compare
23:54
Speaker 1: that to historically, we all know a mum that headed
23:57
Speaker 1: to the Mornington target in July for the toy to
24:00
Speaker 1: put stuff on layby for Christmas. And that was a
24:05
Speaker 1: genius idea where mums could budget and make sure that
24:08
Speaker 1: they had everything that they wanted for Christmas that year
24:10
Speaker 1: by putting it on layby and paying it off over time.
24:13
Speaker 1: But it also fostered long term gratification because how often
24:17
Speaker 1: did they pick up a toy or you know, I
24:19
Speaker 1: know that sometimes I got to pick one out and
24:22
Speaker 1: it would go on to the layby, and I was
24:23
Speaker 1: like psyched about it. From July to December. I knew
24:27
Speaker 1: it was coming, was this long term gratification, And when
24:30
Speaker 1: I finally got it that toy was epic. When was
24:33
Speaker 1: the last time you had that feeling?
24:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've nailed it.
24:36
Speaker 1: I just feel like we don't have that anymore familiar instant.
24:40
Speaker 3: Yeah.
24:40
Speaker 1: I don't think we should have such an instant gratification
24:43
Speaker 1: because it leads to us not caring about things. It
24:45
Speaker 1: leads to us not seeing the value in the things
24:48
Speaker 1: that we purchase. Like it's just such a nasty tool
24:52
Speaker 1: that puts us on the back foot, really, And like,
24:54
Speaker 1: I don't mean to keep talking about my engagement shoes,
24:56
Speaker 1: but I do adore them. I separated my up and
25:00
Speaker 1: created a little fund for that and kept putting money
25:02
Speaker 1: in until I knew I could afford them, And then
25:04
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks before my engagement, I ended up
25:06
Speaker 1: buying them because I had enough money in that account
25:08
Speaker 1: for them, and then they were sitting in my wardrobe
25:10
Speaker 1: and I could not wait to put them on. But
25:13
Speaker 1: for me, that was a bit of a long term
25:15
Speaker 1: gratification thing because I knew what I was working towards,
25:18
Speaker 1: where so often we're not planning purchases with after pay
25:21
Speaker 1: And I've had a lot of people message me and
25:23
Speaker 1: they're like, Victoria, I don't know where you're talking about.
25:25
Speaker 1: People should just use it responsibly. It works really well
25:29
Speaker 1: for me, Like I just use it, and it means
25:31
Speaker 1: that I don't have to separate with my money, and
25:32
Speaker 1: I can budget and I can cash flow better. And
25:34
Speaker 1: I'm just like, great, But you're not the majority. You're
25:37
Speaker 1: the minority, and that's exactly how you would be using it.
25:40
Speaker 1: And I would have no negative opinions on buy now,
25:43
Speaker 1: pay later if that's how everybody used it. But how
25:46
Speaker 1: many people get buy now, pay later with the intention
25:48
Speaker 1: of doing just that, And then it spirals out of control,
25:51
Speaker 1: Like we literally had a money dires George who was like, oh,
25:54
Speaker 1: I've spent like eighty grand on after pay and I
25:56
Speaker 1: just didn't know until I'd calculated it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
26:00
Speaker 1: Like that's not who we are. That's not in line
26:02
Speaker 1: with our values, and I think that if it works
26:04
Speaker 1: for you, great, Like the business as a whole is
26:07
Speaker 1: clearly a very well run business. It is doing things
26:10
Speaker 1: that a lot of businesses wish they could. And as
26:13
Speaker 1: an investor, quote cool, I see the value. But as
26:16
Speaker 1: a consumer who cares about their community, I just don't
26:19
Speaker 1: see it as a positive thing.
26:20
Speaker 3: Well, like, a little bit of guilt is probably a
26:23
Speaker 3: good thing, right, Like, obviously we're condemning it on a
26:26
Speaker 3: larger scale through this episode, and we're really unpacking how
26:29
Speaker 3: dangerous it can be and how it's a little bit
26:31
Speaker 3: of guilt's good. It can stop from making some silly,
26:33
Speaker 3: silly choices exactly.
26:35
Speaker 1: Like it's one of the reasons why we don't do
26:37
Speaker 1: some things. You'd be like, oh, I wish I could
26:39
Speaker 1: do that, but I'd feel guilty, like I'm not going
26:41
Speaker 1: to take advantage of a situation. I feel like I
26:44
Speaker 1: am talking about this, I guess arguably really passionately because
26:47
Speaker 1: I harbor a lot of guilt. I always feel guilty
26:49
Speaker 1: about everything I do. I'm like, oh my god, Like
26:51
Speaker 1: did I just say something that would have offended Georgia,
26:54
Speaker 1: like she said bye? But usually she says, but I
26:56
Speaker 1: love you, like, do you know what I mean? Like,
26:57
Speaker 1: I'm someone who is arguably very self were but also
27:01
Speaker 1: quite anxious, and I think for anybody else who does
27:04
Speaker 1: have anxiety like that is heightened, like and it's even
27:07
Speaker 1: worse because you're like, oh my god, like you catastrophize
27:10
Speaker 1: it and it blows out of proportion. So I think
27:12
Speaker 1: writing things down, doing a bit of journaling, understanding your
27:15
Speaker 1: budget and your cash flow is going to put you
27:17
Speaker 1: in a far better position because you can contextualize it.
27:20
Speaker 1: This isn't actually that bad. I shouldn't feel bad about
27:23
Speaker 1: spending money on things that I genuinely need.
27:26
Speaker 3: Gil, You've just gone exactly where I was about to
27:28
Speaker 3: finish today's episode. I wanted to talk through some of
27:31
Speaker 3: the real solutions.
27:32
Speaker 1: But not my anxiety. Oh okay, yeah, no problems. Let's
27:36
Speaker 1: talk about solutions. Let's talk about solutions.
27:38
Speaker 3: So we were talking about like journaling and writing things
27:40
Speaker 3: down and figuring it out that way. What else can
27:43
Speaker 3: we do?
27:43
Speaker 1: There's a free budget on the She's on the Money
27:45
Speaker 1: website that you can go and download that is super basic,
27:48
Speaker 1: but it does what you need it to do to
27:50
Speaker 1: get a good idea of what's coming into your bank
27:52
Speaker 1: account and what is leaving, so I would do that.
27:55
Speaker 1: Cash flow plan is very very important. Obviously, I am
27:58
Speaker 1: a very passionate believer in now By and cash Flow
28:00
Speaker 1: master Class, because it doesn't just set you up with
28:03
Speaker 1: a budget, like it's not the free budget on the website.
28:05
Speaker 1: It's an entire tool that then tells you how to
28:08
Speaker 1: save for your goals, and it breaks everything down into
28:11
Speaker 1: the bank accounts that you need to have. So not
28:13
Speaker 1: only is it like, okay, we'll have these six bank accounts,
28:16
Speaker 1: it tells you, based on what you choose, whether it's weekly, monthly, fortnightly, annually,
28:21
Speaker 1: how much money needs to go into each of those
28:23
Speaker 1: accounts to make those goals actually happen. So I'm a
28:26
Speaker 1: big believer of that. But it's also about kind of
28:28
Speaker 1: planning joy and making sure that in your budget you
28:31
Speaker 1: have things for you. Let's be reasonable about ours spending.
28:34
Speaker 1: If you're going to go and download the budget and
28:35
Speaker 1: start filling it in, don't just look at the incidentals
28:39
Speaker 1: that you go, well, rent okay, phone bill okay, Like
28:43
Speaker 1: go and print out and you guys are going to
28:44
Speaker 1: hate this. Go and print out three months worth of
28:47
Speaker 1: your bank statements, because I guarantee you you are spending
28:49
Speaker 1: money on things that you don't even know you're spending
28:51
Speaker 1: money on, like oh, I have coffee here and there,
28:53
Speaker 1: not worth putting in the budget. Yes it is. Go
28:55
Speaker 1: and have a look at your spending over the last
28:58
Speaker 1: three months and take two different colored highlighters. Grab a
29:01
Speaker 1: green one for the things that are out of your
29:03
Speaker 1: control like rent and bills and you know, paying for
29:05
Speaker 1: childcare and things that you cannot right now control, and
29:09
Speaker 1: then get a different color highlight up and highlight all
29:12
Speaker 1: those distractionary costs, like what are you actually spending on
29:15
Speaker 1: Uber eats? What are you actually spending going out for
29:17
Speaker 1: a quick bev on Friday night with the girls, Because
29:19
Speaker 1: those things do add up. And if you're feeling guilty
29:22
Speaker 1: about your spending, let's just normalize it. Let's work out
29:25
Speaker 1: a place to have bevies with the girls on a
29:27
Speaker 1: Friday night in your budget, baby, exactly, so you don't
29:31
Speaker 1: feel guilty about that, because we don't want that. That's
29:33
Speaker 1: not living.
29:34
Speaker 3: G No, that's not living. I love this episode, my girl,
29:37
Speaker 3: A really good conversation about the importance of balance. I
29:40
Speaker 3: feel I think so, which, Yeah, we can all think
29:42
Speaker 3: we've done? Absolutely we are Shall I do the rep.
29:44
Speaker 1: I would love to show it once again.
29:46
Speaker 3: Alrighty guys, please remember that the advice shed on She's
29:49
Speaker 3: on the Money is general in nature and does not
29:52
Speaker 3: consider your individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists purely
29:56
Speaker 3: for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to
29:59
Speaker 3: make an investment or a financial decision. And we promise.
30:02
Speaker 3: Victoria Divine is an authorized representative of in Focused Securities
30:06
Speaker 3: Australia Propriety Limited ABN four seven zero nine seven seven
30:10
Speaker 3: nine seven zero four nine AFOSL two three six five two.
30:13
Speaker 1: Three stella perfect. She did so well. You are learning
30:17
Speaker 1: very nicely. But you know where else you learn? Geking
30:19
Speaker 1: in our Facebook group certainly we would love to see
30:22
Speaker 1: you there if you haven't joined already. It is where
30:24
Speaker 1: our community shares money, tips and tricks every single week,
30:27
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30:30
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Speaker 1: do basically begging now, if you think we're begging, don't come.
30:35
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30:38
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30:40
Speaker 1: a US where als are on TikTok. We're not good
30:42
Speaker 1: on TikTok. We aren't gen Z, but we are trying
30:45
Speaker 1: and we would appreciate your support. See you later, guys.
30:47
Speaker 3: Bye, guys, do you