Latest / UK Column Radio / Zoë Harcombe on why being fatter is better for old age | Jerm Warfare

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Zoë Harcombe on why being fatter is better for old age | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: My name is Jim. This is Jim Wolfe The Battle
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: of Ideas, Zoe Harcomb. Thank you for joining me in
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: the Trenchers.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I love chatting to you because we speak about diet,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: and it's probably the most important thing.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it goes with some other things.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: So I think if you eat really well and your sedentary,
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: and you don't have purpose in life, and you don't laugh,
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: and you don't have joy, and you don't have friends,
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: and you don't sleep.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: Very well, going to go great.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: I think it's part of a suite of lifestyle things
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: that we need to do. But it's a really important one.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: So I have a few vices, and I know that
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: you have some views on them, but I want to
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: ask you, just right off the bet, what do you
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: know about coffee?
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I love coffee. I love coffee. I did a review
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: of it. I mean, it's not right at the front
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: of my head.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: But because you know what I've been doing for fifteen years,
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: I take an academic article makes headlines saying you know
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: what's one that's come out today, Red meat is worse
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: than smoking for breast cancer.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, I haven't even looked at that one yet
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: and already I'm rolling my eyes. So that's the kind
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: of thing that I do.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: So doing that, over fifteen years, I've looked at pretty
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: much everything. I've looked at fast and I've looked at dairy, I've.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Looked at coffee.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: I've looked at alcohol, and I can remember when I
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: looked at coffee. And they are association studies. They don't
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: do the randomized control trials where they say, right, you're
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: going to be randomized. You guys have coffee and you
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: guys don't have coffee, and we go to see what happens, because.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Just nothing really would happen during a trial.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: You have to follow people over quite a long period
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: of time and see what happens, and then that's only
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: an association study, and then you might find an association.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Then you should go away and test that in a
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: randomized control trial. So I don't see any issues with coffee.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think if you get the jitters from
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: caffeine and you're having too much caffeine, your body will
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: tell you and you'll get jittery. So just pull back
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: a bit and if you don't sleep so well, then
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: have less caffeine or maybe have it earlier in the
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: day and then stop at lunchtime or whatever.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: But I'm not a ways some of these carnivor guys are.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: I won't name any names, but oh, I think it's
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: a toxin, and I think it's out to get you.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Kind of think it's like it's.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: One of the great joys in life, you know, that
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: first cup of coffee in the morning. It's just such
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: a joy. Don't make that bad. Don't take that away
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: from me enough already.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: The thing though, is that it's a bit of an
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: enigma because nobody really knows what to make of it.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: You know, in some sports they classified as a drug.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I think, like, for example, in cycling, you kind of
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: coffee before a race.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Caffeine is a powerful drug of that, there is no doubt.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: I don't know where it spanned and in particular sports,
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: I actually understood that it.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: Was one of the few legal kind of drugs that
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: you could take that could actually enhance performance.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: So I know there was quite a funny story.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's changed, yeah, maybe, and maybe it's different in
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: different countries. And you know, I'm just not going to
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: claim to know something that I don't know. I do
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: remember quite a funny story. And the England football team
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: were due to go over and they were playing a
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: European country, like one that they should have beaten, sort
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: of thirteen nil kind of thing. And they went over
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: and apparently all the team had taken caffeine, which they
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: typically do before a football match, so they're all really
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: pumped and sighted and all the.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Rest of it.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: And then apparently the pitch was you couldn't play on
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: the pitch. It was either frozen or it was water
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: logged or something, which obviously the local team new. And
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking, you know, it wasn't Luxembourg, but it was
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: a country that small kind of thing.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: They obviously knew this was going to happen.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: So all the England football players were like so wired
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: with this coffee they couldn't sleep at night then, and
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: then it's like, oh, while you're here, we might as
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: well just sort of play the match tomorrow or something
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: like that, and of course they'd had no sleep, and
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: then they weren't.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: They weren't going to be in a very good state.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: So I remember reasoning about that and thinking that's actually
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: quite funny. But yeah, it's a powerful drug. It's a stimulant.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: If you have caffeine regularly and then you don't have
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: it the next day and you've been Let's say I
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: have a coffee every morning when I wake up, which
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: might be five o'clock, five thirty six o'clock or whatever.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: If I have a lie in, I will get woken
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: up with a headache and I only have one coffee
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: a day, and that's my body saying I need the caffeine.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: I was expecting the caffeine, and you're now getting caffeine withdrawal.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: And that's what the headache is.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: So go get me some more caffeine, and I just
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: go and have a cup of coffee. I don't think, oh,
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: you know, that's something I don't really want to happen again.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: So I'm just going to stop eating drinking coffee. No,
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't do that.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: But does coffee? Does it add to weight gain?
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, so that's.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: Quite an interesting one because it's a stimulant, So it's
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: having a little bit from a similar effect on the
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: body to the whole sort of flight fright fight mechanism.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: So it's giving you a stimulant.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: So what it's kind of doing in the body is
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: not dissimilar to what would happen if you saw a
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: wild animal and suddenly had this sort of shock and
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: write I need to do something. So it's getting the
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: body primed to do something, which is why it will
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: enhance performance. It will enhance athletic performance, it enhances mental performance.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: You can tell that.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: I mean a lot of people say, don't even talk
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: to me until I've had my first coffee in the morning,
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: So it is definitely doing that. And to that extent,
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: it will be stimulating glucagon. So if you just have
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: a black coffee set, for example, so you've got no
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: calories with it, you've got no milk, you've got no
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: you're just having the black coffee, then it will probably
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: stimulate glucagon. And glucagon, of course, is the sort of antidote,
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: the equal and opposite hormone to installin. So whereas insulin
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: is taking glucose out of the bloodstream, glucagon is putting glucose.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Back into the bloodstream. So there is an argument.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: And there was a book called the OMG Diet which
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: was all the rage about ten years ago or something,
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: and one of the things that it was telling people
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: to do is to have coffee on an empty stomach
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: in the morning, the idea being that it was going
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: to stimulate the body into this alert state and release glucagon,
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: and that is actually the act of breaking down body
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: fat in the body.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: But you've then got the other things that will happen.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: So the body says, okay, now we didn't see the
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: wild animal, so I've put all this stuff into the
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: bloodstream that kind of I didn't really need. And you might,
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: particularly with the caffeine as well, you might get a
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: bit jittering, a bit shaky. Some people get how they
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: feel they're having a little bit of a low.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Blod glucose episodes.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: So maybe the body puts some glucose in and then
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: when the body says, okay, we didn't need that to
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: fight the wild animal, then insulin of course has to
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: kick it and to say, okay, we're now above the
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: four grams of glucose, so we need to start taking
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: that out. So it can stimulate a bit of a
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: sort of swinging round about kind of thing, and where
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: the body then settles down or ends up, I don't know.
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: So yes, it can have an impact on.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Blood glucose levels.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: It can have an impact on what your body is
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: doing to try to regulate blood glucose levels, and it
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: can therefore have a little bit of an impact on weight.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: But I mean it's really not gonna in the whole
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: scheme of what you put in your mouth and how
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: non sedentary you are during the day. You know, the
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: idea that this diet this was one of their big
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: seven pillars or something. Another one was like have a
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: cold bath in the morning. I mean, you know that's
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: me out straight away, apart from I don't need a diet,
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: but you know, I'm not having a cold bath, and
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: I'm not having a black coffee or whatever and not
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: having my breakfast.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: So it was all just bit bonkers.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it does have some impact on the body
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: in different ways.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll break that apot by adding cream.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: To my co and that's great.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: So the body's going to carry on doing what it
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: was going to do. It's going to stop you having
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: a headache. If you have caffeine regularly, it's going to say, great,
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: You've had your regular hit of caffeine. It's going to
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: make you more alert, it's going to make you better
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: able to work.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: If it's part of your routine.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: The body's like great, I was expecting that I have
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: one of those at seven o'clock in the morning.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Happy days on I go. It's about finding out what
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: works for you.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, I've been a carnival conference or you know,
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: I didn't realize it was a carnival conference, kind of
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: keto conference, and there were some non keto people there
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: like me, and some keto people there and some carnivor
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: people there, and the carnivor people are kind of, oh,
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: it's a plant, it's out to get you, it's a
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: toxin and all the rest of it.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: I'm not in that campital. That's just two dream as
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: to it's boring. It's really boring, and it's obsessive.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: And back to putting diet in context of having purpose
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: and friends and joy and laughter and good sleep and
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: all the rest of it.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: The obsession is not good.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: You know, if you think you're having a healthy diet,
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: but it's basically because you're eating meat and eggs and
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: a bit of salmon every now and again and nothing else,
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: and you're religious about that, or you're eating within this
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: window and if some really interesting people invite you for dinner,
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: it's outside your window.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: So you don't want to go. You really need to
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: reassess your priorities. That's that's not what we're on earth about.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: It's just Notas has often said to me, that the
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: word diet is not is not the correct word to
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: use because it implies a short term goal.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a that's a good way of looking at it.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, diet was very much sort of something you
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: went on and then you went off. And I think
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: what people realized when they did these low.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Fat, low calorie diets. You go on one, Yes you will.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: Lose weight, but then your body starts working against you,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: and it's not very long before you're not losing weight anymore.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: And then you have to eat less and less and
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: less and less to get the kind of the results
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: that you were getting when you first started. And you're
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: just in this terrible vicious circle of you know, sort
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: of what do I do?
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: So you can't keep that going?
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: So I would often say to be because I've worked
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: with people trying to lose weight over quite a long
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: period of time. If you're about to embark on something
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: that you can't sustain, don't even embark on it.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: There's just no point. Why is there any point.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: So you go on it and then you come off
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: it and you regain everything, and you've actually slowed your metabolism,
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: and you've lost lean tissue and you've lost muscle, and
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: you've become a bit obsessed with food, and you've developed
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: some really bad habits, and maybe you've stopped eating healthy
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: foods like meat and oily fish because they're high in calories.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: You know, you've done it like a million really really
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: bad things, and you couldn't keep it up because your
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: body is not going to leave you in a calorie
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: deficit situation for any period of time, certainly not longer
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: than about six months, and then.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: You're in a worse place than before you started.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: So you know, sit down and be grown up with
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: yourself and say, right, what can I achieve? What are
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: my goals? And what am I prepared to do to
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: achieve those goals? And you might say, I'm not prepared
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: to give up red wine. I'm not prepared to give
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: up dark chocolate. I'm not prepared to give up a
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: dinner invite if I get one, and I'm not gonna
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: have any rules when I go out to dinner. So
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: I've got to be able to do something that lets
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: me just be completely flexible every now and again, I
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: don't want to eat within a six hour window.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: You know what, make a bargain with yourself. What are
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: you prepared to do? And if you're not prepared to
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: do anything, and yet you want to look like I
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: don't know, Sydney Sweeney or whatever, you know, that's right,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: that's probably not going to work. Or Brad Pitt.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: If you're a bloke, you know you you are going
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: to have to put in a bit of effort to
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: get a bit of return. But right, contract with yourself,
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: what are you prepared to do for what are you
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: prepared to get back?
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: And if you can't keep something up, then just don't
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: even start it. There's no point.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I think bread is like sixty years old and he
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: looks really good still.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah or RFK Junior or whatever? Yes, I mean you
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: know it looks looks really really good. I think he's
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: over seventy, isn't he? You know, so all of your
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: listeners probably are going to be under seventy.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, you.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: Aspire to look that good and what are you prepared
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: to do to look that good? Because I'm sure he
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: has a cup of coffee and a glass of wine,
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: I hope, so anyway, otherwise he'd be a bit sad.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: So, I mean, often we talk about losing weight, but
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: I know somebody who got very stressed out over a
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: space of a few months and lost a lot of weight,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: eight badly, all that kind of thing. How do you
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: pick up weight?
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: My best tip for gaining weight. I mean, yeah, you're
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: going to need to eat more than your body needs,
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: but that alone isn't necessarily enough, and you still need
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: to eat real food. You still need to eat healthy stuff.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: So I would never say to that person. You know,
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: maybe somebody's had cancer treatment or something and then they're
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: trying to regain weight or whatever. It's like, No, never
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: go to the place of eating junk and all the
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: stuff that is just bad for you. But the single
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: best thing that I found for gaining weight, and also
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: the converse for losing weight, is about what I call
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: the mixing rule or the no mixing rules. So when
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: I started studying nutrition, and I mean studying it because
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: nobody teaches you this at school. So I'm this curious,
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: nerdy logical person or whatever. So I go kind of
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: looking at food and then I realize one day, you know,
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: it's really interesting when you look at real food.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Nature puts it into groups.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: And when you realize sort of protein in everything, that's
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: one discovery, proteins in everything other than chicros and oils.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: It's like, okay, that's interesting. I didn't know that there's
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: not much.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: In lettuce, but there is some protein in lettuce. And
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: then of course there's a lot of protein in a
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: chicken breast or eggs or whatever. But then you realize
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: that nature naturally provides carb proteins or fat proteins, and
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: not so much any combination thereof See, car proteins are fruit, vegetables, grains,
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: and legumes, so it's things that vegans would eat, and
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: then your fat proteins and meatfish, eggs and dairy things
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: that vegans wouldn't eat. Now, really rarely in nature she
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: puts carb, fat, and protein, all in good measure in
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: the same food. And that's basically nuts and seeds and
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: whole milk has got reasonable amount of fat, reasonable amount
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: of carb, reasonable amount of protein. But basically it's sort
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: of nuts and seeds in the natural world.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: And if you've ever.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: Stood next to nuts at a cocktail party, and you
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: start having them, you'll notice that you just can't stop
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: having them because it's that fat carb combo that just
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: doesn't happen in the real world. So if I sat
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: you down and said, right, I want you to just
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: eat butter on its own, you would have a limit.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: And if I said, right, I just want you to
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: eat bread on its own, you'd have a limit.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: The minute I say you can.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: Have bread and butter, or cheese and biscuits, you've got
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: no limit. Or baked potatoes with butter and cheese on them.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, oh, melted cheese on baked potato. Man, that
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: is so good. But that carb fat combo doesn't happen
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: in the natural world. It happens in the fake food world.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: So the fake food manufacturers every.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Combination they're offering you, cakes, biscuits, even crisps, they put
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: sugar and carbohydrate in cris and they also put the
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: fat and the oil. So that's what we find irresistible,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: and that is therefore the way if you want to
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: gain weight. So I still say, don't eat the crisps
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: and all the junk, but mix your fats and your carps.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: So have potatoes with your steak, Have rice with your fish,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: have porridge with your cream. You know, because oats are
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: a natural, single ingredient food.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: They're fine. They're not corn flakes or all brand or
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: anything like that. You know, they're a proper cereal. Have
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: that bread and butter, have those cheese and oat cakes
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: and whatever. So mix your fats and your carbohydrates because
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: you will be able to eat a lot more.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: You won't reach that point of h I'm not interested
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: in the butter anymore.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: And it's just a.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Fantastic way of gaining weight because what the body will
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: say is right. If ever I see a carbohydrate, I
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: want to take that for fuel. That's the easiest thing
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: for me to get the fuel from.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: And I'd quite like to be able.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: To store some fat because the body is always trying
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: to store something for later on, because we're hardwired to
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: store food for later on because that's how we stay survived.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: So you have your porridge and cream and the body
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: is like, great, I'm going to take.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: The glucose from the porridge.
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: I'm going to need to get some out of the bloodstream,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: but I'm only going to pack it away as glycogen.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: If you don't eat for a few hours, I'm going
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: to be shipping it back into the bloodstream so that
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: we can use it. And hey, by the way, I
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: wanted to store the cream for later on. And I
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: can store cream if I've got insulin, because that's my
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: hormone that helps me store stuff. And I've got insulin
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: because you eat porridge at the same time as the cream.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: So happy dates.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: I've got the perfect fat storing environment. And conversely, if
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: you don't want the perfect fat storeing environment, keep your
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: carbs and your fat separate, kind of eat in the
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: groups that nature has provided.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: For you, and eat a whole pile of eggs every day.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: Well if you like them. Yeah, I'm not like a
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: massive fan of eggs, just not you know.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: I would prefer yogurt, for example, Greek yogurt. If scrambled
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: eggs in butter, they're pretty nice every.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Now and again.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: And omlet with cheese that's quite nice every now and again.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: But my hobby eats baking and eggs for breakfast every morning.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: I kind of look over and I'm like, nah, I
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: don't fancy that, not first thing in the morning. That's
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: just too much.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: What's the difference between Greek and Bulgarian yoga.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I've never had Bulgarian yogurt. We get
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Greek yogurt in the supermarket. Imagine, it's just thick yogurt
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: that you get in a Bulgarian the supermarket in in Greece.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously it's to die for. Local Greek yogurt
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: is you know, like you can stand a spoon up
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: in it is so thick, it's so high fat. We
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: get some pretty good yogurt in the supermarkets in the UK.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: I've been to conferences in the US and one of
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: the first things I do is to go out to
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: a local supermarket to get some yogurt in the fridge,
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: so that if I need something because of crazy hours
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: of conferences, I've got some good fat protein in the
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: fridge and I'm looking all the way through the cabinets
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: for something that's more than about seven percent fat. In
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: the UK, we can get ten percent fat quite easily,
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: but they're not so good.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Queen South Africa have a lot of built on I mean,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: it's part of our culture. What do you have in
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: the UK? Jerky I think would be the equivalent.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, beef jerky.
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can get built on and I know people
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: who make their own, so they'll get sort of very
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: thinly sliced meat, heavily salted and just sort.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Of leave it's the same thing. It's not the.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: Same, no, but they're kind of trying to make the
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: notion of dried, very salty meat something that you can
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: just snack.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: On or have for AMAI, yeah, that's what I was
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: going to ask you. So, I mean, it's essentially just
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: meat was fat on it, so it's obviously a good snack.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Having said that, you shouldn't be snacking. Ideally, if
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: if you have a bit of a chaotic lifestyle and
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: you're doing a podcast one minute and you don't know
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: when your next going to be able to get a meal,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: and you just feel you need a bit more fuel,
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: then yeah, fine, reach for something.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: But ideally, most days.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: We're able to work to some kind of a routine
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: of we have breakfast at a certain time, and we
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: have dinner at a certain time, and we also like
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: lun although that's not the biggest meal. Breakfast and dinner
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: are definitely the sort of the biggest two. And if
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: we know we're having a later meal. We did last
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: night we were out with friends we would normally have
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: dinner about four thirty five o'clock if we're at home.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: We knew last night it was going to be seven thirty,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: eight thirty.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Maybe even then we might reach for some cheese mid
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: late afternoon, just to make sure we're not starving hungry
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: at the point the meal comes. But ideally we shouldn't be.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: It shouldn't be needing to reach for something. Kind of
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: if you need something in between, there's something wrong with
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: your meals. Your meals weren't satiating you or giving you
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: what you needed, so best not to snack, if we can.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Where did this idea of multiple meals a day come from?
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Moment breakfast, lunch.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: Dinner, dietitians and the fake food industry. And if you
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: look at the fabulous work of Belinda Feck, you'll see
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: how closely aligned they are.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: As in cereal companies in.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: All the countries I've looked at, UK, South Africa, America,
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: New Zealand, Australia, the cereal companies and dietitians are very
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: closely aligned, you know, gold partner level, closely aligned, so
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: that then the dietitians are saying, oh, you should have
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: cereal for breakfast, and then a snack mid morning, and
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: then a nice sort of low fat lunch, and then
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: maybe a snack mid afternoon, and then a nice sort
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: of car based meal in the evening, and then a
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: snack before bed and all the rest of it, And
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: then they wonder why we have an epidemic of obesity
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: and type two diabetes.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just the most disastrous advice you.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: Could ever give a human being, both in how often
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: you're eating and what you're eating.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: So just like, throw out all of that advice.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: Don't go low fat, don't go low calorie, don't graze,
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: don't eat little and often, don't favor carbohydrates over real
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: animal foods, Eat good meals, Eat decent meals so that
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: you're not feeling hung in between.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: What about the idea that they are labels, I mean
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: most of my friends drink diet coke or coke zero.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: Not so sure actually, I mean if you looked at
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: the evidence against your coos versus the evidence against daspartane,
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: I don't think aspartane, which is the main sweetener in
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: those kind of drinks, so I don't think it.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Fares very well.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: There's a passage in my Obesti book which was written
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: back in two thousand and nine, where I look at
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: some evidence against daspartane, and of course if you look
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: at the evidence that's been prepared by the aspartane companies,
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: the fake food companies, it's like, oh, nothing to see here,
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: this is all fine, and there's sort of you know,
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: one study I think it was, that had been done
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: by non you know, fake food companies whatever, non diet
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: drink companies, and of course it's like, hmm, this is
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: potentially carcinogenic. It's you know, a little bit corese for concern,
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: needs looking into further and all the rest of it.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: So no, they'll they'll they'll come up and say it
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: so on I mean, dit coke, you can get caffeine
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: free diet coat, but if you don't, then you're getting caffeine.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: So we're back to where we were at the top
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: of the show, which is caffeine is going to have
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: a stimulant. It might impact glucagon, It might then in
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: turn impact angelin. You don't want to be doing that
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: several times a day because you're going to bring on
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: type two diabetes at some point. Anything that is not
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: water between meals you need to give some serious thought
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: to so coffee with caffeine is going to have an impact.
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: Things that aren't going to have an impact are basically water,
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: herbal teas generally unless they're kind of green tea. Green
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: tea's got a caffeine content. But if you're looking at
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: things like peppermint or cama mile or making your own
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: tea from herbs that you've got from the garden or whatever,
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: then you're okay. But no diet coat. You've got to
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: think caffeine. You've got to think aspartan. You've got to
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: think the body registers the sweetness. The body doesn't know
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: this wasn't this was just a sweetener the body. So
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: the body you have the diet coke, and the body thinks, wow,
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: that's really sweet. You must have had I don't know,
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: three or four teaspoons of sugrose, so I better get
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: ready to deal with that. So the body starts then
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: saying right, okay, and then where's the sugar? You know,
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: I released insulin ready to mop up all of that sugar.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: And then you didn't have all of that sugar. So
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: there are also studies showing that sweetness have a similar
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: impact on the body to caloric sugar because the body
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: just doesn't know the difference. How can it know At
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: the point it goes in your mouth, you know, carbohydrates
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: start being digested in the mouth. So the minute you
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: put a carbohydrate in, in fact, is even earlier than that.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Walk around a supermarket, go past the bread counter and
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: they pump out the smell it is to try to
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: get you to buy bread.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Now, you can be literally salivating as.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: You were walking around the supermarket because the supermarket knew
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: how to stimulate your body to make it realize that
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: this carbohydrates potentially on the way. So you like a
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: Pavlov dog, you can be salivating before you've even put
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: the bread in your mouth. Many you do put the
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: bread in your mouth, yeah, then your slavery enzymes are
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: really kicking in because they're going to start digesting the carbohydrate,
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: and then digestion of protein and fat goes on elsewhere
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: in the body.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I know somebody who is very fat and is pre
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: diabetic as a result, and decided to buy diabetic snacks
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: diabetic food, and I'm looking just thinking, what, Oh, that's
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: really sad.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: It's like when people have gluten intolerance and then they
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: buy all these gluten free products. It's like, your body
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: is really just trying to tell you something right now.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: What it's trying to say is can you eat some
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: real food please? And that diabetic the body is just
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: trying to say, look, can you just eat some real
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: food please? And you know, I'm sure I've shared my
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: sort of three rules before, you know. Number one, eat
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: real food. Number two, choose that real food for the
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: nutrients it provides. That's what that poor diabetic body is
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: trying to say, you know, And what is that real
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: food that has the nutrients that we need. It's red meat,
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: it's oily fish, it's eggs, it's whole dairy. Yeah, you
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: can have some salads and vegetables and berries and dark
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: chocolate and wine and all the rest of it, but
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: it's your meat, fish, eggs and dairy that the body
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: really wants to get the nutrients that it needs in
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: the form that it needs them. And then rule number three,
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: don't eat all the time, like maximum three times a
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: day unless you're trying to gain weight. And then you
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: can sort of break the rules.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Raw milk, what do you know about that?
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Not a great deal.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: I know, it's almost certainly really good for us, because
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: anything that they try to ban and stop us eating
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: is almost certainly really good for us when I can.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Get it, and I can get it.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Sometimes there's a farm springs up near Whales and then
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: we suddenly hear there they've got raw milk or whatever,
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: and then we can stock out with freezes just fine,
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: so you can freeze it and then take it out
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: of the freezer.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: But I get through.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: Quite a lot of milk from the coffe that I
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: drink in the morning and putting in kafir, which we
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: have every day as well, both me and.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Habby, So we can get through a lot of milk.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: So I need a really local supply to be able
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: to drink it all the time. If I could drink
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: it all the time, if I could access it all
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: the time, I would absolutely convinced that it's going to
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: be more natural, better for us. But there's parts of
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: the US, I think where they've legislated you're not even
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: allowed to consume it. You know, it must be the
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: pasteurized version. And every now and again they say, oh,
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: there's somebody who's been made really ill by drinking raw
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: milk or something. Just to kind of like remind you, well,
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: don't go off and do anything like that.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: You know, that's what sort of crazy health conscious people
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: go and try and do. So anything they demonize just
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: tells me it's got to be good for you.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, but Zoe, trust the experts, well, the.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Ones that tell you to eat five a day and
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: fiber and.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: Fat is bad and calves are good and COVID's gonna
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: wipe out the planet. And you know this, jab We've
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: tested it and it's super safe and effective. And don't
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: worry about my carditis, especially especially, don't worry about that,
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: you know, even though we knew that one even before
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: it was in arms. No. I mean that's why I
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: rumbled COVID because one of the first wake ups for me,
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: I guess, was public health. You know, the minute you
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: start looking at it, why you know, we're starting to
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: get an obesti epidemic. You know, this is what I
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: was thinking around the nineties. It's like, Okay, I'm literally
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: watching people around me get larger and larger and more
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: and more people are going on these calorie controlled diets
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: and they're starving and then they binge because they're just
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: so hungry that they can't sort of stop the binge,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: and then they feel really bad and they've told they're
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: greedy fat pigs and you're only obese because you're a
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: greedy fat pig and you're lazy actually as well. And
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: all you need to do is just to eat less
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: and do more and then everything will be okay. And
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: I'm looking at I'm thinking people want to be slim
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: more than they want anything in the world world. Do
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: you know, you say to them, do you want to
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: be slim? Or you know, do you want to marry
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: David Beckham or something? They say, well, I want to
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: be slim. You know, do you want to win the
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: lottery or be slim for life? I want to be
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: slim for life, you know what I mean. It's just
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: like something so strongly that people want to achieve. And
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: yet if it's really just as simple as just eat
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: less and do more, then why wasn't achievable? And you
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: suddenly realize that eat less do more drives you down
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: the route of eating the wrong things. It makes you hungry,
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: starts your body working against you, and from that it's
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: kind of like, so where does this calorie theory come from?
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: And why do they say five a day? And why
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: do they say this, and why do they say that?
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: And then just everything crumbles in front of you. There's
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: just no evidence for any of it. And then you
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: just start looking at everything else.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: And it's like, well, you know, is there any evidence
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: for fourteen units of alcohol women are supposed to most
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: you just supposed to drink in a week for women
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: and for men it's twenty one units. Is there any
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: evidence for that? No.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: One of the guys on the committee just said, oh,
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: it was a number we just picked out of the air.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: It just you know, five a day was a number
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: that was just picked out of the air. Eight glasses
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: of water number that's picked out of the air.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: I just don't trust them. I just I trust them
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: on absolutely nothing. Health. If they told me, you know,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: sleep eight hours at night, I'd probably say, all right,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: that's that's now rubbish. You know, I obviously only need
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: to sleep four or ten.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: But anything they say, it's just it's like almost the
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: opposite is true every single time.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Just to be fair, I wouldn't want to marry David Bickham.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know that was in his heyday
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: or whatever, and mostly it was women at that time
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: who were trying to lose weight.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: So if I didn't marry and my wife would leave me?
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, probably, Yeah.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: I don't like tattoos anyways, I e would never interest me.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: I don't like to have you got tattoos? Have I
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: just upset you?
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: No? No, no, I've got no. I'm still I'm still
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: part of the of the resistance.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, I know everybody.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Everybody has tattoos these days.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now I don't like tattoos. No, like no, I don't.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: A big part of my life is good, and this
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: has been an ongoing battle.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Have you tried apple side of vinegar.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: In what way? Just like drinking it as it is?
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, because hold on, hold on, hold on,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: before you got any further, a big debate. And I
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: remember seeing a doctor and he said, look, you need
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: more acid in your in your in your body. Yes,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: but other doctors have said no, no, no, You've got too
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: much acid.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: So your stomach is the most acidic place on earth.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: You know, it's kind of like battery acid level or whatever.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: So in what universe does it make sense to try
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: to make it less acidic, because it's got to be
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: at that levels vacidity So when I was talking earlier
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: on about when you consume carbohydrates, they start being digested
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: in the mouth of your salivary enzymes. Protein is mainly
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: digested in the stomach, that's where it's broken down, and
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: then fat is sort of lower down the digestive system
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: in the intestines. So the stomach has to be you
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: breaking down protein, which is a pretty serious structure into
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: the amino acids that we need, the essential amino acids
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: and other non essential amino acids.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: So your stomach is an incredibly acidic environment.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: So there is just no logic to me that says,
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: trying to make it less acidic, which is what these
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: ameprozols and these antacids and reny and protein pump and
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: all the rest of it.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: They're trying to make it less acidic.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: There is no logic to me whatsoever that says that's
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: going to be a good idea.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: I'm going to send you a video after this.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: By a health influencer who I must have come across
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: about fifteen years ago, and he's a guy called Sean Croxton,
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: and he used to I mean even before Instagram and
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: ticked were a thing, he was making little videos on
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: YouTube and he went by the name of Underground Wellness
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: and he does this little ten minute video about acid reflux, gourd,
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: heartburn and all the rest of it and the logic
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: of it being too little acid versus the logic of
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: it being not enough acid, and hopefully by the end
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: of that ten minutes, you think, how did I ever
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: take anything that would try to lower my acid? And
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: then you start having apple side of vinegar.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Right, So, in terms of eating real food, what real
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: food is high in acid?
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Well food is what food is. It's not necessarily that.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: I think you probably didn't have an acidic enough environment
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: to start with. And then if you've gone the kind
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: of a metrozole lower in the stomach acid route, you've
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: had your body starting to fight against you. So ideally
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: what would have happened.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Then I did that flag fifteen years Oh.
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: Crikey, Okay, So yeah, it's going to take a bit
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: of time to reverse things. But we've had friends who've
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: come with this and they've been on you know, the
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: doctor has gone I can think of a very differend,
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: very close quite recently, had gone to the doctor with
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: this and doctor was, you know, straight for the emetrosol,
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: and it's like, oh, you'll be on them for life,
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: and you really don't want to look at the association
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: between those tablets and stomach cancer.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is going to be.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: A even though it's just an association, it's a number
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: that's that's going to scare you.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: So you really don't want to be going that route.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: And we said to him, look, would you think about
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: not cashing that prescription and maybe just go in the
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: apple side of vinegar route.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: He was infinitely better within days, And.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: So what do you just drink it in a glass?
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: How much?
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can buy apple side of vinegar, mix
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: it to a sort of level that works for you,
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: or there might be some instructions on the side of it.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: My hobby every now and again he sort of feels
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: that maybe he has a need to settle his stomach
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: or make.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: It more acidic or whatever.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: So he'll put maybe a tablespoon of apple side of
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: vinegar in a nice glass and then put half the
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: rest of the glass with some sparkling water, so kind
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: of turning it into a pretty sharp apple juice kind
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: of thing. And I'm not saying it's the most pleasant
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: thing in the world. I mean, I go near the
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: cup thinking, oh, there's a bit of water left over,
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: you know, great, I'll swig that off, and I gown it.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, that's his apple side of vinegar.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: And it's you know, it causes quite an aversion in
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: your smell when you actually just smell it. But if
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: you can get past that and say, okay, look, I
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: just need to do this because it's going to sort
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: out my good and the two things that I think
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: are best for stomach helf is ke kafir, however you
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: pronounce it. First thing in the morning or an empty stomach.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: Great to make your own grains, make your own kefa,
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: and have a glass of that first thing on the
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: empty stomach, and then have your breakfast. And then Andy
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: tends to have sort of apple side of vinegar, probably
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: later on in the afternoon, maybe before dinner. I don't
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: think there's any great religious time of day that he
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: takes it.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: You know, if he might be feeling a little bit.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: Like he needs it, you know, he'll have some in
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: the evening or in the morning, just sort of any
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: time that he's thinking, oh, you know, maybe I should
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: have a little bit now, Or then he'll just get
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: in the habit of having some because I'll find him
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: a new brand and he's like, oh, I'll try that
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: that looks fun, and just never has any problems. There's
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: no kind of acid reflux or gurgly tummy or problem.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: You've just got to, again, do the opposite of what
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: you're being.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Told to do.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, So an obvious trigger is sugar. Why is that.
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: You maybe affecting I mean, you probably be affecting the
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: acidity of the stomach at some level. I mean, certainly
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: sugar has more impact on glucose and the bloodstream generally,
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: but it is also going down into the digestive system,
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: so it's sort of trundling along with the other things
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: that you're eating. So yeah, it may be a trigger
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: just for that reason. It may be feed in Okay,
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: here's another thought off the top of my head. It's
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: almost certainly feeding bad bacteria in your gut they go.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: So it's going to be feeding things like candida. Candida
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: all because this whole book's been written about candidra all
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: because the yeast syndrome could used to be your problem.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: When people have quite a carbi diet, which quite often
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: comes with people who've been dieting, so they've gone low fat,
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: which is inevitably high carb, or they don't think about
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: the quality of what they're eating. They're just thinking about
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: the calories. You know, I went through a period of
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: calorie counting when I was a teenager.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: I used to get like a packet of these fruit gums,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: like gummy bears or whatever, and a hundred calories and
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: I could just kind of chew on them through an afternoon.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: So I was just dripping glucose into my bloodstream all afternoon.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: You know, Lucky I didn't end up with type two diabetes.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: But they were only one hundred calories.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: And hey, they would stop me eating other things all afternoon.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: The fact that they had no nutrients whatsoever probably feeding
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: the bad guys in my gut. And if you look
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: at the other things that come along when you've got
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: a gut floor imbalance, particularly when candida has taken hold
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: and you don't have the sort of lactobasilicus and acidophilus
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: and all the good guys to counterbalance it, you can
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: get all sorts of symptoms.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: You can get brain fog, you can get tiredness, fatigue, irritability,
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: get up and go has got up and gone bloating, wind, constipation, diarrhea.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Your gut is the second brain of the body.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: You know, if your gut health is not good, your
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: whole body is going to be feeling it.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: But you can count all of that with diet. You
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: don't need medication.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. No. I mean, I certainly would
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: never ever, ever go the emeprazol route if I developed
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: acid reflex. I do exactly what Hubby is doing. I do.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: I'll send you as I say that Sean Croxton Video
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: Cafe really does help because it's just such a fantastic
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: amount of all the good guys, all the gut flora.
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, it really is. You know, it's going to
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: take you to a sort of step change level.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: But what else has.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: That If you don't want to make your own cafir
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: or get some from the supermarket, natural live yogurt. So
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: look for the stuff that says natural live yogurt.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Look on the.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: Label where it says contains acidophulus lacto basilicus. Those are
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: the kind of good guys that you're looking for. Blue
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: cheese naturally fermented. I know I don't like it either,
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: naturally fermented food, so pickled food.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Again, we're back to vinegar and vinegary foods. So when
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: you're having a salad, you know, consider putting some kind
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: of vinegar on it, you know, red red wine, vinegar,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: olive oil and vinegar, maybe bolzamic, although there is sugar
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: sometimes in ballsamic.
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: It can be quite sweet because it's grape based. You know,
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: my mum used to toss lettuce in oil and vinegar,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: just you know your natural like chip shop vinegar.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: You must have known something that would have be passed
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: down by her mum.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: You said red wine vinegar, but I'll add red wine.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Well, it probably does help.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: Actually, that's probably why I don't like the taste of
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: red wine, because I put it to my mouth and
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: it smells like Andy's out inside of vinegar.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: It smells. I know, I can't come and hang out
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: with you and Nick Hudson, can I no?
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: How can you? How can you say no to wine?
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: I can be the driver, you see, I'm so handy,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: Like we had a lovely dinner last night. I drove home.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: You know, Andy's asleep in the front seat. I get
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: us home at one o'clock in the morning, Like he said,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: an hour's sleep. I'm the one that's got to be.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: You know, there's some benefits to having a WiFi that
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: doesn't drink.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Trust me, but it also sucks if you're the only
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: one drinking wine.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Ah, he doesn't seem to mind. He doesn't, He doesn't mind,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: doesn't he doesn't mind.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: He's kind of got used to it now, he has
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: got used it. Yeah, I'd like to be able to
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: share a bottle of wine with him, but I just
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: don't like the taste.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: So it is what we haven't tried. I don't think
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: you've tried all the wines quite often.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: I mean he had the guys we were with last night.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: This guy is a real wine buff. I mean he
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: invests in wine. He knows his wine. Whenever we go
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: around there, Andy knows he's in for a treat. You know,
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: this is not even sort of shatter nerve to Papa whatever.
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: This is stuff that you know, like is the weekly
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: shop kind of expense.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: And some of it is extraordinary. He presents it in
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: this beautiful glass. So Andy had this last night, and
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: I always like to have a little sniff, you know.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: I always liked to sort of swell it around and
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: kind of you know, see what they're drinking. The warmth
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: that came off this wine last night, and it was
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: like somebody had put a hair dryer up my nose
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: and it just it just smelt warm and smooth and
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: all the rest of it.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: And my friend Neil is like, oh, would you like
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: a glass? It's like no, because I wouldn't like it. Like, okay,
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: I'll try it, And then.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: I go to taste it. I'm like, oh, that's horrible.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Why would you do that? Oh it's horrible.
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: Give me more chocolate moves so I don't want any
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: more of that red wine stuff.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Do you think, like the Vikings a thousand years ago
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: were healthier than what we are today?
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Oh? I don't know.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: I mean I think they they had infections, didn't they
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: They didn't have antibiotics.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: They I think they probably had some.
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: I mean I'm preferring to diet.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Oh diet. Oh yeah, I mean you know what did
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: they eat?
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: Just like animals, anything they could catch, any planty stuff
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: was seasonal, so you'd have nuts in the autumn, you'd
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: have berries in the autumn, fruits in the autumn.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: That's about it. And the rest of the time it was.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: Whatever you could catch and kill and preserve, or there
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: was this sort of you know, if you can't preserve
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: the meat, then you've just got to eat a lot now,
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: and then you're not going to eat for a wee while.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: But you've got to have this ability to be able
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: to store fat and then to unstore fat. And we
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: don't kind of respect that very much at the moment either.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: We just want to be the same way all the time.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: So we're fighting against how we actually should be living.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: We should be going into the autumn winter at our
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: peak weight, you know, fatten up in that kind of
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: period and then coming out of it a little bit leaner.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: But we just want to be the same weight all
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: the time.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: I heard a very interesting argument when you get very old,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: it's better or healthier to be fatter than it is
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: to be thinner. Oh, because is that correct?
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, hugely so, Yeah, there are studies that will
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: show that. Yeah. I looked at one.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: Gosh, within the last couple of years, there was something
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: on BMI and longevity, and the absolute worst group to
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: be in is underweight, and then it's sort of normal,
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: particularly low end of normal. Don't want to be obese
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: because that's an indication of probably other things might be
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: metabolic disease type two diabetes, which is going to impact
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: heart health and be an increased risk for other chronic conditions.
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: But you do not want to be underweight because you're
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: going to get something when you're older and you've got
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: nothing to fall back on. So you get pneumonia, you
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: get a flu that sort of becomes a bit more
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: serious and develops into pneumonia, and you're going to lose
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: weight quite rapidly because you're going to be quite ill.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: You're not going to feel like eating.
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: Your body's going to be fighting the illness like crazy,
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: using up more energy than it normally does. My mum
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: developed appendicitis in her seventies, was carrying a reasonable amount
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: at the time, you know, probably twenty pounds, lost it
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: almost all in a couple of weeks, two to three
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: weeks because her appendix had kind of become problematic and
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: attached a bit of the stomach and it was a
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: complex operation and lucky to still still be here and
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: all the rest of it. Had she not had, you know,
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: a good few pounds to fall back on, you know,
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: imagine if she's sort of one hundred and ten pounds
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: or something at five foot two and then losing twenty pounds,
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: she's in serious territory. You know, you then frail and
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: you've got other complications that go with that frailty. So definitely,
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: I mean it's difficult. This is just you know, for example,
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: for me, this is my natural weight. I'm wondering, you know,
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: it's been my natural weight for thirty years. Is there
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: any point at which I Am just going to start
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: putting on weight? And if not, I'd start following my
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: own advice, start mixing, trying to get the fats and
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: carbs into quite deliberately put on more weight.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: You know, when I start heading towards mum's age or whatever.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Does that apply also to being very muscular?
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: That is a good question. Actually, I know sarcopenia is
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: not helpful. So I know you need a certain amount
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: of muscle. And so long as he's not done anything
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: crazy along the way, and he was mister Universe, so
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: I have to assume he was drug tested and wasn't
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: taking steroids and performance enhancing drugs and that kind of thing,
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: So he's not done anything too bad, then I would
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: say preservation of as much of the muscle that you've
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: built up over life as you can preserve is going
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: to be a good thing now not because one of
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: the most dangerous things is you get older is to fall.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: And when I used to do some conferences with CrossFit
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: and speak at their conferences, I was really impressed with
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: the work that they were doing with elderly people. So
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: they would have classes, particularly with elderly people, where the
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: goal of the class was not that you win the
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: CrossFit games, but that you could get up off the floor,
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: you could get out of a chair. So you have
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: to imagine the scenario that you've fallen and you've broken
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: an arm, and you're seventy five eighty eighty five, ninety,
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: can you still get up off the floor or get
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: to somewhere where you could actually get to the phone,
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: or get to the alarm, or to be able to
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: alert somebody in some way such that you weren't just
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: left there for a long period of time. Were they
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: broken with a broken limb. So one exercise in the
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: class might be right, you've broken your right arm, how
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: can you use your legs and your elbows and your
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: other arm to get you up? You've broken your legs,
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: can you do the same getting out of the chair.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: You know, you're looking at older people and they get
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: to the point that just using the arms to push
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: themselves up, or using you know, not using the arms,
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: keep your arms folded and just using your legs to
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: lift up or whatever, that becomes problematic.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: So and just not falling in the first place.
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: A good skeleton, a good sort of bone structure, of
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: good muscles on that bone structure, good solid sort of
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: awareness of your body and your body strength, and your
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: position of your body in the environment around you, not
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: being clumsy, all the.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Rest of it. Those are life, life changing things.
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: You know, the number of times a fall is the
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: beginning of the end for an older person.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: You must have heard it. We all know someone. My
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: uncle had a fall in a McDonald's in Toronto, in Canada.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I mean barely a few weeks later he was gone.
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: You know, he's in hospital for the problems of the fall.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: Then he gets an infection, then the complications of the infection.
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: Then suddenly I don't have this lovely uncle anymore. Bonkers.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: I interviewed a former powlafter a gives the absolute worst
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: dietary advice, But he's not there to help with your
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: diety's there to help you pick up weight so that
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: you can, you know, love heavy weights. I think you're
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: recommending like five liters of milk per day. But what
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: he did say, and I've never forgotten, he said he
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to get to the age of eighty five
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: ninety years old and require a walking stick.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: I'm not a huge fan of extreme exercise. So the
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: people doing iron Men and marathon and then a fifty
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: k bike ride, you know, I can't even remember what
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: the iron Man is.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: I just see those guys.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: You know, particularly the ones who've been car bload in,
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: and we know some of them in our world.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: You've mentioned one of them in this podcast.
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: You know, they end up with type two diabetes because
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: they've been carload in this extreme exercise for a very
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: long period of time. I know quite a few extreme exercises,
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: and I was interviewed on a podcast by one just
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: last week where they don't just end up with type
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: two diabetes, they end up with heart bypass or heart
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: surgery stints.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: And we're not talking at older age either. I know
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: a few.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: People in their early fifties who've ended up having major
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: heart surgery who've been running marathons for the last sort
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: of twenty to thirty years. So I think there's definitely
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: a balancing exercise. So I don't think it's extreme exercise.
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: It's definitely not being sedentary, and it's definitely doing something
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: weight bearing so that you're protecting your muscle, which is
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: also protecting your skeleton.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: That's where I was leading to. So a combination of
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: muscle and a bit of fat is very helpful for
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: when you're old one day.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah it is, but you're super young, so don't
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: worry about it now.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: But does that applied to women also.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's across the board.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like my mum, as I say, if she didn't
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: have the twenty pounds, she probably wouldn't be here now.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: And there is a.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: Recent award ceremony and you know, I hate that whole
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: parade and looking at all those women, thinking how long
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: did that take you to get the body and to
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: get the personal trainer, and to do the diet, and
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: to get the face, and to get the hair, and
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: to get the botox and to get the dress and
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: you know, get the pose and all the rest of it.
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: Surely you could have done something better with all of
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: that time. Than preen in for that one moment when
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: you have the photograph and then it's you know, blown
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: up all the way around the world. But I think
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: the really noticeable thing about this year's awards ceremony, and
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: we haven't even had the oscars yet, we're having the
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: warm ups relatives to some of the other years, is just.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: How much thinner and thinner and thinner the women are getting.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: And they're not all they're not all in their twenties either.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: Now you know, I don't want to name any names,
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: but a couple of actresses who are now in their
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: sixties who were.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Just looking so thin, and it's like, guy, you know what.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: Did Courtney Cox from Friends famously say, you know, there
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: comes a day when you've got to sacrifice your butt
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: for your face or something.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: You know you're going to have to put on a
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: bit more weight there to She looks terrible, I know,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: but I mean maybe she knew that that's what you
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: should be doing, but she hasn't gone and done it yet.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: They all looked, you know, they they look skeletal.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: It's almost like women are not allowed to take up
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: any space in this Lot's like the guys are supposed
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: to look like Arnie and take up as much space
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: as possible, and the women are supposed to look like
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: sticks and not take you know, it's quite euphemistic for
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: sort of men and women in the world and our
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: roles generally.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: It's like, I just I want next year.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: I want all the women to get together and say, right,
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: we agree, girls, we're just not doing this. None of
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: us are going to do the diet, none of us
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: are going to do the personal training. We're not going
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: to do the botops. We're not going to do the
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: fake tan. We're not going to get the hair, the makeup,
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: the deal dress or whatever. We're going to turn up
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: in our favorite outfit that makes us feel the most comfy,
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: the most happy, and we're gonna wash our hair and
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: we're gonna look nice and we're gonna smile and just
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: look natural or whatever, and just like blow all the
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: photographers away.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be great?
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: You don't look that great, you don't look that healthy.
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: You know, why is the world talking about Sidney Sweeney
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: at the moment? Because she looks like a real woman.
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: She's not looking skeletal. I know she's very young, and
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: I hope she sticks with this kind of I've got
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: curves and get over it.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm a real woman, you know.
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: I really hope she doesn't ever just follow all the
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: rest of them and goes stick in sex.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Is she the one who became famous because of that?
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: I've got good genes head yeah, yeah.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and upset everyone, which I like her straight out
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: because it was just so anti woke and all the
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: woke we're going nuts, going, oh, it's so yeah, I
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: can't exploitative or whatever. It's so sort of.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: Nineteen eighties, you know, And isn't it terrible. It's like,
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: it's the woman. She looks great in jeans, and she's
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: a model. It's her job to she's an actress as well,
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: but you know it's her job to sell jeans. Good job,
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: you just sold loads of jeans.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: And let women be whatever they want to be. Stop
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: judging them.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: I think it was years ago said to me the
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: purpose of eating a low corb diet and basically eating
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: healthy is not to lose weight, but it's to get
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: your body to its default weight.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: And I think it does. Yeah, I think it does. Actually, yeah,
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: I mean it certainly gets it to a natural weight.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: It gets you to a natural hunger. You don't feel hungry.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: It's kind of almost like being on those fat jabs,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: but you're not on those fat jabs.
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: So when people sort of say, oh, the food noise
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: has gone, it's like, I haven't that food noise for
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: twenty years.
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: You know, if you eat meat, fish.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: Eggs, dairy veg, salad, fewberries or whatever, dark chocolate, red wine,
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: you don't get food noise. You get food noise when
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: you start having Crispy Kreme doughnuts. You know, they are
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: the crack cocaine of the fake food world. You know,
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: if there's a lot in front of you, I challenge
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: you just to have one. It's all just done deliberately,
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: so all of that can go. And then, yeah, your
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: body is just it will tell you.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: When you're hungry.
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: And there's days when I'm thinking, oh, you know, it's
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: three o'clock and do you know, I just feel like
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: I need something, and I'll just go and get a
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: chunk of cheese and then I'm just fine for another
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: couple of hours. I just listened to my body and
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: it tells me what I need when I want it.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: How bad for you? Is pizza.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: Once in a while, Probably not that bad if it's
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: your own pizza. I dated somebody wants you used to
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: like make pizza. It was actually really nice. So he
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: used to make his own doughbase. And it was a
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: sort of all meal flour dough base. I think you thought,
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: you know, whole meal bread is better than white bread
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: kind of thing. So it was a whole meal flour
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: dough base, and there was nothing unusual in it. It
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: was just kind of flour and sort of oil and
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: whatever else. And then he'd put tomato natural tomatoes on it,
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: and he'd put cheese on it and mushrooms maybe or
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: something kind of build it up because it's that fat
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: carb combo. You've got the cheese on the bread. You've
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: got that carb combo. It's delicious. And if you can
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: get the crispy crust, and if you like thick crust
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: or thin crust, if you get it just how you
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: like it, it is that fat carb combo. So it's
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: just absolutely delicious and fantastic every now and again. It's
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: not going to do you any harm if you start
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: feeling you're craving it and you want it every night,
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: you want to come back from having it.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: Anything that you start craving. You just got to say,
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: I need.
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: To pair back from that because I don't want to
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: go to that place where I actually feel addicted to
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: that substance. To just just recognize it and then step
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: back from it.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: For me, pizza is a really good quality hot boon.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, because you're back in a sort of calf that
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: you're feeding the bad guys, Candida. If we're back to
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: that sort of the most bad of the bad guys,
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: Candida really does love bread.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: Really, if you're going to get hard burned at least
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: from something really good like pizza, something that you like, yeah.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: And do you know what I mean?
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: If you get into this habit of taking apple side
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: of vinegar on a regular basis and taking I'm going
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: to go have that, yeah, and not doing the opposite,
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: not trying to do the ant assets and the mep
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: rezols and that kind of thing. If you stop all
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: of that, that's like step one, step two, start doing
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: the opposite, and you might well be able to get
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: to the point that you're enjoying pizza and not getting
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: any reaction to it.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to go have now after we've recorded,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: because I had some banigna bit earlier. And the only
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: reason I had baniana bid is because we've got a
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: little boy and we had beanignas, and so my wife
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: made a banana bread to use up the remaining bananas.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: And it is delicious, but.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: You don't have to have it. If it's causing new problems.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: Then you need to believe very nice.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and stuff that is bad for us is very nice.
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: We're back to that what do you want to achieve
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: and what do you what you prepare to do to
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: achieve it.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: But you also like banana bread, don't you do?
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: I can't remember when I've last had banana bread or whatever.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: Really, yeah, I find bananas bananas are I find they
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: they are triggers for hot boon.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: They're very high in glucose, very high. I mean a
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: you know, medium large sized banana or something. You know,
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: you've got twenty grams minimum carbohydrate.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: There.
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: Fruit always have fructose and glucose, and the glucose is
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: the one that goes into the bloodstream.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: Bananas have got more glucose than fructose.
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: But they're all still, you know, not too far away
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: from fifty to fifty kind of thing. But remember, you've
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: got a teaspoon of glucose in your entire bloodstream at
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: any one time, which is just four grams. So let's
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: say your banana is ten grams of glucose, it's probably
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: going to be more. You just chucked into the bloodstream
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: more than double what it had, and it was quite
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: happy more than double what it needed, and it's just
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: then got to call upon the pancreas to release the
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: insulin to get the sugar out of the bloodstream. Then
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: it goes get stored away, and then you need it
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: for energy and it starts bringing it back, and then
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: you might crave another banana because it kind of didn't
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: quite get your glucose back to where you wanted it
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: to be. Maybe it dipped a little bit low, and
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: then you want another piece of banana bread. Yeah, So
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: when we start eating carbs, we find it quite difficult
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: to stop because getting back to that perfect level where
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: the glucose is just where the body wants it to
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: be is actually quite tricky.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: When you start eating.
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: Glucose, it's a lot easy when you just leave it
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: to the body to use the pancreas to put insulin
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: and glucagon to get that level.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Might in my defense. I don't eat any fruit though.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, but banana bread, so.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: There, I'm going to take bananas and bread and together,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: going to put them together. Yeah, but I'll balance it
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: out because I'm going to make meatballs tonight.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah, meatballs are good meatballs, especially I mean presumably
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: with mints from the but cheer or something. Yeah, that's
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: good because it's not People in our world eat steak
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: all the time, a bit too often, and you want
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: to be eating other bits of the animal as well.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: So mince is actually really good because it's actually.
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: Mixed up and yeah, and use egg to keep it together.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: It's very nice.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's how Andrey makes burgers.
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: He uses beef mintce because beef cows help the planet.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: Pigs not quite so much. So.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: My good friend farmer Angus, who I think you might know,
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: he's got a all know of he's got a farm
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: not too far away from and he's got some of
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: the best raised a cross fed cattle. Incredible, incredible quality.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: But it's slightly more premium. But as he argues, is
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: it actually more premium.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he's doing another job, isn't it.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, looking after the top soil, looking after the planet.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I mean if meat is better quality,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: then you're consuming better quality nutrition also.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm I'm interested in American meat, which
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: is from cattle that are in concrete sheds being fed soy,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: and you know they should be out grazing the land.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: It's not like you haven't got a lot of land
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: over there, you know, just use it better, put the
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: cows out of the sheds grazing in the fields.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: All right, Zoe, I get your newsletter every week, and
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: you're currently doing a series on how to what is it,
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: how to analyze.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Read a paper?
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, how to do what I do basically, Yeah, and
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: then you can do it and then you don't need me,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: as I'm hoping you still do need me, because.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: Otherwise I can't afford stake. So please, hopefully still let
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: just say no, okay, I know how to do it now,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: but I'll just leave it to her and give her
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: like a dollar a week or whatever it is. It's
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: not so much, hopefully.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: So how can my audience read your new and.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: Read my stuff? Yeah?
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: So on next, I'm just at Zoe Harkham, which is
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: I see my first name is just up on the screen.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: And it's just second name h A R C O
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: M B E. And my website is Zoeyharkam dot com.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: And there's quite a lot on OpenView. I think I've
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: even got a tag saying OpenView or freeview or something.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: So if you don't want to pay anything, and then
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: just go and read the open view stuff just quickly.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: Zoe, is there a little thing on the e is
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: just e?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: You know it's Zoe. They call it an ummel out
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: on the e and it's Greek. It's a Greek name
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: means life.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Hm.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: I think if you don't have the e the out
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: on the I think it's zo or it can be
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: pronounced so I know, well.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: The Americans do it like that.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah they don't. They say zo or Zo's or
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: yeah whatever.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: Anyway, with that, on that note, Zoe, holcome, thank you
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: for joining me in the trenches.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having mete.