Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / What Women Think About Angry Men

Transcript

What Women Think About Angry Men · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi, everybody, and welcome to the doctor.
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  Psych mom show today, I'm going to be talking about what women
• 0:10
  think about angry men, specifically, their husbands
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  were angry. Please do subscribe though.
• 0:17
  Before we get into that. My most recent subscriber
• 0:19
  episode is about anxiety and kids and how that relates to
• 0:23
  untreated parental anxiety, because, of course, there's
• 0:26
  nature and nurture and that touches on both.
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  Alright. So a lot of guys think that
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  being angry means that you're like real bad, you know, No bad
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  dude. Like you are like in a good way
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  like that you are you know strong and aggressive in a
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  positive way and Alpha in fact it's like the number one thing
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  that women don't like when they come to couples counseling or
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  when they talk to me individually.
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  I've talked about this in terms of the, when women hate argue
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  hours or women hate argue errs and women hate difficult and
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  defensive just all sorts of like podcasts and post like that.
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  So what women think about angry men is a, they get Scared and or
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  B, they get irritated, you know, like so it depends how angry he
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  is. And what he does, of course,
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  fees violence, he's throwing things, he's screaming and
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  cursing at them, they get scared.
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  Even if they know that he's not going to ever hit them.
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  It's a fight or flight response that evolutionarily out smaller
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  weaker. Female organism has in reaction
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  to a larger, you know, threatening male organism.
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  Like this is why your wife, you know, wood.
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  Get scared. If a man stared at her and
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  leered at her on the subway, it means he could rape.
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  Her is our, you know what? She probably going to rape her
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  know. You know, like every man that
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  doesn't stare at you doesn't do anything to you, you know, but
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  doesn't do something. But still your body reacts as
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  though he will that's an evolutionary response.
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  So the first thing that most men don't understand because if they
• 1:58
  don't think of themselves as a violent dangerous guy because
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  they think of themselves as kind of a you know, an ethical good
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  person. They don't And how they are
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  wife, is her whole nervous system is thrown into fight or
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  flight when he yells screams curses Etc, so and even if she
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  does it, you know, like she could yell and he could, you
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  know, hate it and think she's being a real bitch and she could
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  be. But the reality is, is usually,
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  he isn't scared for his life. Nor does his nervous system
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  think that he should be scared for his life.
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  His his body isn't reacting as though he might die.
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  And so hers is and a lot of guys don't understand that.
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  Also, when they scream at the kids, it's the same kind of
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  thing. And I did a whole podcast about
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  this called why you don't get laid on nights that you screamed
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  at the kids or something. And this is because her
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  protective Mama Bear evolutionary drive to protect
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  her. Kids goes into high alert and
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  she perceives you as an attacker of her babies, and this makes
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  her hate you and want to kill you.
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  And that's Evolution are And she may not do anything except get
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  the kids into another room or rolls her eyes at you or
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  something, or eventually leave you, but she is what she's
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  feeling internally is that you're an attack or so you're a
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  tiger who came out of nowhere and is attacking her children
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  which is giving her an adrenaline rush and not in the
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  good way that you want to cultivate.
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  What do I mean by irritated? Sometimes she just looks at it
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  like a tantrum. So if you've done it enough that
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  she no longer has this fight or flight response because has been
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  habituated to it then she's just like here he goes again with
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  another tantrum and that's all you know equally as bad for the
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  marriage because she's looking at you like a baby, you know,
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  and in park she's doing this because you are literally like
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  you have no self-control and she Associates that with the
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  children and also it's because again she's become habituated
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  you, you storm around all the time so now even her nervous
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  system even though it's wired evolutionarily to And as though
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  you're attacking her, she knows you're not going to she's become
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  inured to it and she's just like, looks down on it.
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  She's just like here's another baby stomping around.
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  And so this isn't good either, because you may be angry for
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  real-life reasons and she's not going to take you seriously,
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  even remotely because you're always storming and stun
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  stamping and huffing and puffing.
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  And that is not. It just is sources seem like
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  your general personality. Now, of course, there's the fact
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  that it is a large part of your job.
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  Real personality. There are not people who are
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  angry for years and storming and huffing around and yelling and
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  whatever because it's not part of their personality, right?
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  I mean, it's it, she can't be so bad as to cause you to have a
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  different personality and this is something I say to both women
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  and men. Women are like I'm depressed
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  because of my husband, I'm like, you're depressed because from
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  everything you tell me, you got family, history of depression,
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  you know, and marital stress can exacerbate it.
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  But it's not like every woman in your situation will be
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  depressed. Some of them would not, some of
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  them would be like, fuck him, I'm leaving him or some of them
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  would be like, fuck him. I'm living a parallel life or
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  some people would really throw themselves into work in the kids
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  and their Hobbies. I mean, not everybody.
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  And I talk about this all the time.
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  You got to picture the bell curve.
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  You know, they're there was a whole range of distributions to
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  how people would respond to your partner and yours is not the
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  only one, obviously the logically, it's not so you can
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  never blame your partner for your personality and your
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  patterns that If you're honest, predate your partner.
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  So if you're angry and storming around and huffing and puffing
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  almost, a thousand percent, you can associate this two ways that
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  you've acted at other stressful times in your life and or to the
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  feedback that you even received as a child.
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  You know, that you had anger issues or that you could be
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  irritable or - or take things personally, etcetera, Etc.
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  So, what women really think about angry men is get me away
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  from this either emotionally or physically and they Retreat.
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  And of Of course, if the man feels that one of the reasons
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  he's angry is because he doesn't get enough affection.
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  Then this is going to go terribly because he's going to
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  become more of a pursuer while she becomes more of a distance
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  or etcetera Etc and over time, that, you know, like anger
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  doesn't make a woman into an avoidant person.
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  She was probably, you know, always had an avoidant
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  attachment style but it's certainly exacerbates it.
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  So bi-directionally you are exacerbating one another her
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  avoidance is exacerbating your anger.
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  So preoccupied attachment. Really comes out in men like
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  anger. So with women they could be
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  crying and, you know, saying don't leave.
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  Don't leave me so much. Do you even love me?
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  You know, I don't even think you love me.
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  Do you even think I'm pretty right men?
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  Don't do that a lot. There's not a lot of crying and
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  saying, do you really think I'm handsome?
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  You know, instead men will become controlling an angry, you
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  know, you only think about yourself, you never look up from
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  your phone. Where are you even going
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  tonight? Why are you wearing that?
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  You know, you seem to have time for everything but me, you know,
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  so, They come off in more of an attacking tone because anger is
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  a much more comfortable emotion for males than sadness
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  vulnerability. And you know a verbalizing
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  insecurities whereas women that is more of their wheel houses is
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  expressing vulnerable emotions. So they will say things that are
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  more like what they really think.
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  Like I'm scared you're going to leave me versus where you going
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  tonight, you know which is what more of a preoccupied attachment
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  man. So preoccupied.
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  Attachment men, generally act more Trolling then vulnerable
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  you know, even though the controlling this is coming from
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  a place of vulnerability so then of course that exacerbates the
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  woman's wanting to push away and completely isolate and get the
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  hell away from him because he's micromanaging, controlling
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  paranoid accusatory Etc. So what do you do if you have
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  these anger issues then well therapy is a really good good
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  starting place because if you're angry at me, People on the
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  regular, which you may say. It's just your wife, it's never
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  just, your wife is going to be your kids.
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  It's going to be people at work. It's people that cut you off
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  when you're driving. So if you struggle with anger,
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  it's usually because you feel a deep rooted sense of insecurity
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  or inferiority and women never perceive this as Alpha because
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  instinctively, they know what it is.
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  You know, I mean, I mean think about it like a guy that in a
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  worst-case scenario, beats his wife.
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  Everybody knows that guy's fucked up, everybody knows.
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  No, everybody knows like if they think about it.
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  For one second, that, that guy probably got beaten as a kid,
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  you know, so it's like nobody ever thinks that like, that guy
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  had like a good reason to beat his wife, you know, nobody ever
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  thinks that we're good reason to like, you know, punches kid,
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  right? No, never, you never have a good
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  reason to abuse your child, right?
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  But everybody can imagine you don't do that without a history
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  of having that done to you. So women pick up on this, they
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  pick up that, it's from insecurity.
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  T deep insecurity and you know then how could it possibly be
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  Alpha, right? So anyway, in therapy, what you
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  want to work on is that deep-seated insecurities, you
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  want to figure out where it came from, what in your family of
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  origin, LED you to feel this way likely, you know it was the fact
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  that you didn't get treated so well and or you were modeling on
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  a low self-esteem parent. And so then on a parent who was
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  always act like everybody was out to get them paranoid and
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  thinking they were always kind of a Channel victim is what I
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  call it. And so if you grew up with this
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  victimized feel because either you were victimized or you
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  modeled on somebody who active victimized then as you go
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  through life, you're always thinking everybody stepping on
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  your toes even when they're not even when they, they aren't even
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  aware of your existence, you know?
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  And they're just like, let's say trying to get home quickly.
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  You think they're specifically cutting you off because they
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  thought you were a mark and they went ahead of you on purpose and
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  now you're going to show them. Them that they should not cut
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  you off, you know, and some people even follow the car and
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  scream etcetera, you know? So if you struggle with anger
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  you got to figure out the root of it.
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  And that can honestly in and of itself, really, really change
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  your frame because then it turns into a learned behavior, you
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  understand it and that helps you kind of slow down in the moment
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  and realize it's kind of like when you teach people that halt
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  acronym, you know, are you like hungry angry?
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  Lonely or tired or nose, or hungry, anxious, lonely or
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  tired. And so, these are the times when
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  people use like if their substance abusers and they're,
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  you know, trying to be clean and then they're thinking when or,
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  when am I going to be most triggered?
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  One of my most risky times, it's when you're, you know, hungry,
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  anxious lonely tired, right? And so then when they figure
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  that out, then it doesn't seem any more to be so unpredictable,
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  like your urges to use aren't going to come out of nowhere.
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  You know, it's going to be at these times.
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  Then maybe you can do things so that you don't get hungry.
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  Anxious, lonely, tired. You know, with the same
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  frequency, you know, you could pack yourself snacks.
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  You can make sure to see friends, you can get eight hours
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  of sleep, if you know that it's super important to helping you
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  not relapse etcetera, Etc, right?
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  So it's the same kind of thing, by the way for anybody exploding
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  or doing something bad in any way.
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  So of course, you're likely or to be having anger Outburst when
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  you're all so hungry, I just lonely tired etcetera but like
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  also knowing why you Would, in terms of a macro, like
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  longer-term frame. So I did it because I saw Don,
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  you know, I did, I am being angry now because I used to have
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  my mother yelled at me a lot or a father, who would beat my
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  mother. Is why I want to you know hit my
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  wife. And instead I just yell at her,
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  you know, just in quotes, right? So.
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  So understanding the origin of why you act a certain way is
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  extremely important to giving you a larger frame and a deeper
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  understanding of it. Which can in fact, stop you from
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  doing it in the moment because you're aware of it.
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  It no longer seems like mad at my wife, who she's a real bitch.
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  Instead, it's like I'm mad at my wife, because I always saw my
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  father, met him at my mother. Maybe my wife is being a real
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  bitch, you know, too. But that's not really why I am
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  acting different in this way. Then maybe many other men would
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  act toward my wife because you start to see the whole picture.
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  Like yeah. Okay maybe your wife said
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  something annoying. Right.
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  But there's if there was a hundred guys They all pick up
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  something and throw it certainly not you know and of course if
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  you're in a situation where somebody's picking up shit and
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  throwing it, you're a woman or a man listening to this, you
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  should get out of that situation.
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  That's abusive and the yelling constantly or name-calling
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  cursing. Etc, is also abusive and you
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  really so, I mean, this podcast is toward the person who's doing
• 12:54
  it and the man in particular who's doing it, but if you are
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  in this situation with a spouse like this, this is immediately,
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  you if, of course, you feel in any way, endangered, you gotta
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  get out and bring get the kids. A out to but you need to really
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  push for therapy like in an ultimatum kind of sense because
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  your kids are learning how to act like this and they'll either
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  be the one who does it or the one who cowers.
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  And neither one is the role that you want them to have in there,
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  you know, future relationships. But back to the people, I'm
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  talking to which are, they angry people themselves understanding
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  where this comes from, can help a lot understanding.
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  Also, your triggers can can help you to avoid those triggers.
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  And if you are constantly angry in Marriage, understanding your
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  relationship, toward women, what you learned about women, what
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  you learned about relationships, how to empathize with your wife,
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  who you may see as some sort of an opponent, you know, and and
• 13:47
  aggressor. If that's how you were trying to
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  think of women or as partners and relationships and also after
• 13:55
  you work on yourself. Oh, and of course, by the way,
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  the relationship with the therapist is another place where
• 14:01
  you can practice different sorts of communication skills because
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  that's an extremely Important part of therapy is what goes on
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  in the room. So the therapist hopefully will
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  have strong boundaries and not allow you to demean or berate
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  them as you may want to do as the relationship progresses
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  because you have anger issues. And then when you are in real
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  time when you learn a different way of interacting in therapy
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  because unlike your wife who has a lot of skin in the game and is
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  terrified of you as I've described or at least needs to
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  raise kids with you. The therapist can keep strong
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  boundaries you know and so then you can learn another way of
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  You're acting with somebody who does not allow you to talk to
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  them in a bad way and so you have to figure out with the
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  therapist, different ways of communicating and then those you
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  can bring into your intimate relationship.
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  And then of course, couples counseling can really really
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  help because there aren't a lot of people at work with
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  high-conflict couples. But there are some, you know,
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  and and you gotta find them. And you got to kind of make
• 14:58
  yourself open to learning what they teach you.
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  In terms of alternate, communication skills and those
• 15:04
  can be He learned, I've helped a lot of people reduce the level
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  of conflict in their relationship.
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  You know, through Insight oriented Psychotherapy as well
• 15:14
  as literal skills training. Because if you were raised in a
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  house where everybody was yelling at each other, like a
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  lunatic all the time, you have no idea how to communicate other
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  than that. Truly you may be so smart, like,
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  in all other aspects, but you literally have no idea of an
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  alternative response if you feel that you are being that you're
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  being ignored or your Are being violated in some way or you're
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  being condescended to then to rage.
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  And there are many other ways to do that including you know,
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  directly and calmly stating your position which so many people
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  think would never work until they try.
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  But anyway, I hope that this was useful to at least some of you
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  and always, if you feel that you're in a situation, of
• 15:56
  course, where you are in danger, then you, you need to get out.
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  And in a real, of course situation where somebody is
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  Raging at you. Then, of course, you should Be
• 16:05
  calling 911 and getting out of the house, but this is more of
• 16:08
  the situation. What I'm talking about is more
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  yelling and that, that sort of conflict, you know?
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  Because that is more of what I see in couples counseling, these
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  people who just do not understand that, there is no way
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  for their wife, to respect them, if they are a yeller, all right?
• 16:23
  I'll talk to everybody soon. Have a great day, guys.