Latest / GAIN Momentum / The Dawn of Performance Luxury as a New Hotel Category | with Katie Tardif
Transcript
- GAIN Momentum episode #112: The Dawn of Performance Luxury as a New Hotel Category | with Katie Tardif === Adam Mogelonsky: Welcome to another exciting episode of the GAIN Momentum podcast. I'm joined by my special guest today, Katie Tardif, who's the head of marketing and communications for Equinox Hotels. Katie, how are you? Katie Tardif: I'm very good. It's great to be with you today, Adam. Thanks so much for having me. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Well, I mean, thanks for carving out the time. You know, we should talk about what's so special about Equinox Hotels, but right now you're moving from one hotel in New York to a global brand, and that is an incredible venture. So tell us about that. Katie Tardif: Yeah, it's been an incredible journey. I was the first hire within the hospitality division in 2016. And yes, you have this large master brand that is Equinox. Equinox Fitness clubs have 120 clubs primarily around North America and the UK. But a really core group of us came in and said, "How do you take a two to three-hour fitness concept and turn it into a 24-hour luxury hospitality one?" So we worked really hard for about three years in the lead-up to opening our property. This tiny group of us like in and out of understanding what delivers optimal human performance at the highest level in a uber-luxury hospitality setting. Our guidelines we had were pretty strict. It was movement, nutrition, regeneration, and community, which are the pillars of the brand. So that gave us good guardrails to work within, but a full blank canvas to say, how do you define what hospitality is for the modern affluent high-performance traveler? Adam Mogelonsky: Right. So you have these pillars to work within, and then from there you get creative to actually design the experience. So, what is different about the Equinox Hotels experience? Katie Tardif: So I think for one, we work within those four interconnected systems, right? And I, you know, instead of just designing an environment where wellness is layered in as an amenity, we built performance into the hardware and how the room and the product is hard-coded and engineered. So how does the room help you regulate your nervous system? How does the environment protect your circadian rhythm? How does food affect energy and cognition, lighting, socialization? Where can you train and still be connected socially, but have physiological space when you need it? So it was a really thought-out guest journey, but we also hard-coded how regeneration should be optimized for optimal human performance into how the product lives and breathes. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, and you know, this whole idea of hard coding in various pillars of what is in essence a very healthy lifestyle. Dare I use a bad buzzword, but biohacking in a lot of ways. But a lot of hotels, they look at biohackers and they go, "Oh, that's just this little micro-niche off in the corner. It's so fringe." But essentially what you're saying with the Equinox Hotels is that this isn't fringe, this is the future. So could you unpack what that means in terms of just your overall thesis on the market? Katie Tardif: Yeah. So I think, biohacking is such a buzzword right now, right? And it's something we really need to pay attention to and be aware of because there is some substance behind what lies within that in terms of technology and innovation. But at the same time, performance, I think, is much broader than that, and it's a lot more human. You know, performance is simply having the energy to be present at dinner, right? To show up for your kids, to have a really good workday and clarity, to make decisions with conviction, right? So it doesn't necessarily have to be this extremism. I think there's definitely a time and a place where, And you know, we have things that fit that category, but performance is feeling your best across every vertical of your life. And you know, we're not asking guests to behave like an elite athlete. We are applying principles that have been long understood in elite performance, like sleep and recovery and indulgently healthy food and beverage and connection, and that's kind of where we're bringing it into modern life, and making it more accessible. And I also think that performance is not about doing something in every single moment, which is also misunderstood, right? That sort of, like, overachieving, over-performing goes in the same category as probably biohacking, right? It's this more, more, more kind of behavior and mindset, whereas sometimes performing is a decision to remove all, you know, absolutely everything, and that's where this tension within the brand lives, where our construct kind of internally is all and nothing, right? These tensions that play within each other, right? Restlessness, relaxation, power up, and power down. So biohacking 100% has a place. It's fascinating category. There's so many interesting things that are coming out of it, but I also think at a human level, it's simply about, like, how do you just show up to be the best version of yourself? And that is what performance is. Adam Mogelonsky: Right. And, you know, I'm fully aligned with you. I guess you could say I'm a biohacker, still trying to figure out the sleep. Katie Tardif: What's your latest excitement? Adam Mogelonsky: In biohacking, like, as a technology, intermittent hypoxic-hyperoxic therapy. So Katie Tardif: Can you explain? Adam Mogelonsky: IHHT, what it is, is it's based on the Warburg effect of cancer research and how you can use intermittent periods of increased concentration of oxygen in the air and decreased amounts to then supercharge the immune system to find and destroy cancer cells that have masked themselves, by not expressing immune-immunoglobulins on their, the, you know, the packaging on their cells to hide themselves from the immune system, and this one helps to identify them. Katie Tardif: Wow. I mean, that is such an incredible cause, right? Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Katie Tardif: That's very cool. How did you find that? Adam Mogelonsky: I live and breathe biohacking, so you know, I'm always researching that when I find something I like, I put it into an AI workflow that uploads it to databases, so that way I have a quick reference point for all of them. I don't have that database open right now on my second monitor. Katie Tardif: Yeah. I wanna, I wanna know more about this world. Very, that's very cool though. No, I think, you know, biohacking is so... that's where it gives us like, okay, what's the North Star of what we're looking at to where do we wanna be in five years? Where do we wanna be supporting people physiologically in that sense, right? Being proactive instead of like reactive, I think is where we're sort of getting to, but we're not even really at that starting line yet, at least for the general public. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, I mean, but that's part of what hospitality is, is we have to take a person where they are. And while it'd be great to say we're gonna design a hotel only for elite athletes who are of that same mindset, you know, we have to appeal to people who are still figuring or- figuring out what the Mediterranean diet is or figuring out a circadian rhythm, all those various points. And therein the question to you here is with Equinox Hotels, how do you, how do you inspire people to live better while taking them where they are? Katie Tardif: It's a great question, right? Because you do have to meet them where they are, and ultimately, yes, we've designed a powerful product, but it launches every time someone walks into that guest room. And I think the exciting thing about the Equinox Hotels experience is that, yes, it definitely is very well-suited for that elite athlete, fitness biohacking type, but at the same time, we really have seen and are so proud of, like, you walk through our spaces and there are people from all walks of life. There's the 80-year-old having her martini at the bar. There's the athlete in his robe going to the spa. There's the business executives, the influencers, right? And you get this amazing group of people who share this performance luxury mindset. But I think what is really interesting about what we've designed is that because we work within these interconnected systems of movement, nutrition, regeneration to propel performance, it's really like choose your own journey, right? We're not saying come in. We're not this medical spa where you're-- it's super precision drill camp, and you have to go from point A to point D in 24 hours, right? It's built in a way that is highly aspirational and inspiring, where you're discovering things along the way, and we really wanna be additive to how you actually feel, the habits that you kind of walk away with feeling like, "Oh, wow, this is something I want for my life," right? So it's this almost kind of like, magical is probably too, like, soft of a word, but almost this alchemy of an experience where you are finding and discovering things that are-- resonate with you and excite you, that make you feel physiologically better, which I think is very cool. So we went through a branding exercise a couple years ago, 'cause it takes, you know, we've done so much work to educate the consumer about what Equinox Hotels is. In the beginning, it was like, "You're a hotel gym. Your guest rooms have treadmills in them," and that is so not the case. You come here, and most people, I would say, the majority of people will not wanna leave. So we did this scrape of our reviews, and consistently across TripAdvisor, Google, everywhere, "I didn't wanna leave, I didn't wanna leave, I didn't wanna leave." You can be in that building for 24 hours and literally not leave the front door because there is so much for everyone. And it's also fun. You know, you don't have to go there and have, like, a wheatgrass smoothie and a, you know, a shot of kale smoothie. It's a vibrant, fun, dynamic environment, which is something that is very rare, right? You have the fitness club with 5,000 local active members that activate our properties on a daily basis, mixing in with the local community who come to our happy hours and our spas, and you just get this really powerful, dynamic energy that I think is quite rare and unique. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. You know, that whole idea of driving a community is part of that whole lifestyle promise, where I guess, locals and the visitors intermixing. And if we could focus on the programming that you've put in place at the New York property, just to give people a sense of the flow as well as how you've created this amazing space on the 24th floor, is it, with Electric Lemon? Could you just talk about how that floor is programmed as well as the spa and the gym downstairs to really create that interactive space between locals and visitors? Katie Tardif: Yeah, absolutely. So the whole building is the Equinox Tower. It's our flagship hotel, flagship fitness club. The fitness club is massive. It's 60,000 square feet. It's got 50 group fitness classes every day, boxing, HIIT, swimming, yoga, you name it. It's got an indoor lap pool, saltwater lap pool. It's got hot and cold plunges, and then it has a saltwater outdoor lounge pool that's actually open and heated all year round, so you can literally be out there in a snowstorm, which is, like, stunning, and it overlooks all of Hudson Yards. On that same level, you also have the spa, which is operated by our hotel, and some really cool, powerful treatments there. It's structured into a circuit experience, so you can go and you're like, "I have three minutes," right? Which is the majority of New Yorkers, right? Constantly crunched for time. Okay, let's do a techno therapy, right? Infrared, cryo. Or you can spend the whole day there going through a circuit, an entire circuit. And then on the 24th floor that you mentioned, we have Electric Lemon, restaurant, bar, and terrace, which is the entire floor. Really beautiful space run by Stephen Starr that creates this, again, very cool local energy from the businesses, the residences in the area. And then above that, you have our actual hotel guest rooms. So if you think about that mix of people and the footfall you get, right? Again, it's like 5,000 active members of the community that mixes with all of the hotel guests. We have 212 guest rooms within our flagship property. And then all of the local offices who are coming to happy hours and spas. So it's constantly packed and pumping. Like, I walk down there sometimes and I'm like, "It is the who's who of who." But it's also just a cool crowd of people that you're like, "Yes," like, "I wanna be in and amongst this." It's fun, it's interesting, and exciting. So, and again, it's like you can be upstairs drinking or you can be downstairs in the club, you know, pumping out a boxing class surrounded by a bunch of people. Like, it really... it's such a community heavy experience, but then you have this guest room where it's this just sanctuary of deep regenerative peace and solitude. So it gives you these extremes of, like, socialization, but also just truly getting deep restorative relaxation. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And, you know, building that vibe amongst locals and people visiting in, you probably as a marketer have used the term brand equity from time to time. So it takes five years to build a reputation. So what's your overall approach to building that brand equity so people think of Equinox as a great place to hang out with great food, great spa, but also rooms that are absolutely perfect for sleep without that whole idea of having the treadmills in the rooms? Katie Tardif: Yeah. I mean, we were so fortunate as the hospitality division to come into an existing incredibly powerful brand with, to your point, so much brand equity already, and that was what was very compelling to everyone that joined in those early days, right? You know, we were owned by a huge developer, and then you had the massive brand equity of existing Equinox. So it's like the ingredients is incredible. Now let's build out what the nexus of this becomes, right? Which is this 24-hour luxury hospitality one. So I think, you know, even for us when we're in RFPs and we're launching new projects and stuff, there's so much excitement around being part of this global Equinox community. And the early day founders of the fitness club brand did such a fantastic job at like... Cult's probably not the right word, but like kind of, right? It's like they created this like cult mentality where like, I want to be part of this club, right? It's like, it's like now everyone's wearing those like giant AirPod things and like they're kind of clunky and dorky, but like they're actually becoming this cool statement. You know, it's like Equinox is that like Twitter check. Remember back in the day when the check was cool, but now everyone can buy it? That's what Equinox had done so well. So that gave us so much power as the hospitality brand to come in and say, "Be part of this club because it is powerful and it is different, and we are defining the pioneering the category of performance luxury." So we get this really excited kind of energy around us when we enter into new projects. Like everyone's looking to us as, how are you activating this space, right? For example, at Ala, our new project that will launch along the Red Sea in Saudi later this year, like the whole positioning there is Equinox is the beating heart of Triple Bay, the destination. And we're sitting in and amongst the biggest luxury hospitality lineup in the world, Four Seasons, Rosewood, Six Senses. But they're looking to us to say, "You guys are gonna be the ones activating this space in a way that no one else can." Adam Mogelonsky: So let's go into that performance. Let's drill in a little bit. The whole idea of sleep. Sleep is an incredibly important part of life. Hopefully everyone realizes that. And you've designed rooms specifically from the ground up for sleep, as opposed to a lot of other luxury brands that are adding in amenities and then just sort of slapping it on. I don't wanna use slapping it on, but just they're adding it in iteratively, which isn't the approach you've taken. So you have ground up sleep amenities. Tell us what some of them are, how they're driving awareness and bookings, and then how are you telling the world about these sleep amenities? Katie Tardif: Yeah. So, I mean, sleep is amazing because it's universal and consequential, right? We all sleep, and we all know the consequences of not sleeping. So we really put sleep when we started this at the top of the pyramid, and we were like, "Okay, if you sleep well, you're gonna move well, you're gonna make smart food and beverage decisions. You're gonna have energy and clarity at work for your family, socializing." It all kind of falls into place when you put sleep up there. So when we engineered the literal architecture of the room product, we made sure that the room had double soundproofing built into it, right? Let's nail the fundamentals. Before we add any cool elements, let's just get it dark, quiet, and cool. So soundproofing architecture. Blackout, like the most blackout you have ever, ever experienced. I'm sure you've probably stayed at our properties, right? You open those blinds and it could be 2:00 in the afternoon, you have no idea. It's wild. We worked with the city to make sure, through the city fire department, to make sure there was no, like even the fire alarm blinking, tiniest blinking lights were hidden enough. Obviously, it's still safe and up to code, but it is a fully blackout room. That is fundamental and cool. So temperature, I mean, I could go on and on about temperature, but temperature is the number one driver of really, your sleep quality, if you're gonna wake up, how long you stay in each of your sleep stages. So at a minimum, it should be 66 Fahrenheit, 19 degrees Celsius. We've actually allowed our thermometers to go below that. So we were like, "Alright, let's engineer the fundamentals." We have a really simple button on our iPad called Dark Quiet Cool. You hit it, the whole room shuts down. So that was really important. Then we scoured the globe for years looking for, like what is the right mattress technology that was natural but would be aerating and cooling. You could have a partner sleep next to you, but it was really good pressure in terms of like, I won't be disturbed, but also pressure in terms of you know, physically, how are we supported? And then we really leaned into the divorce sleep concept. I'd say like almost pioneering it here in the US. There's countries in Europe that kind of did it, softly, but we went heavily into like, okay, we are going... Every bed is going to have a king duvet on top folded over. Doesn't matter if you're solo or individual, because that solves a lot of your sleep problems. My husband and I started doing that last year, and our bed looks weird. It does not look like an Equinox Hotels bed, but I swear to God, we never fight anymore. So like sleep fight. So it was really thoughtful, like, okay, let's make this totally optimized for if you're with a partner. If you're not, obviously you kick it off, right? And then just simple functionality things about like where's certain lighting, you know, fixtures placed. How is there lighting really subtle if you have to wake up and use the restroom in the middle of the night? So those were really like the engineering components. And then within our rooms, we have, what we call our room bar, which is basically a reinvented minibar. And instead of like Coca-Cola and M&M's, there's 80-plus products that support high performance, from adaptogens and elixirs and collagen to sleep-inducing tinctures, skincare, sexual health products. Like what does a modern traveler want today? Still the alcohol and all the fun stuff, right? But what do you need in the guest room, right? You wanna feel good, you wanna regenerate, you wanna look good when you exit it. So, it was very thoughtful. We designed, we developed, proprietary AM and PM rituals which support your circadian rhythm in the morning to feel naturally awake in the morning and, you know, lower your cortisol levels and stress hormones in the evening. And so that's kind of like the core root of how we built the guest room. And then in our shower, I didn't even speak to the shower. The shower is beautiful. It's like a multi-experience shower with three different shower heads. We have AM and PM amenities, all sourced from The High Line, which is the beautiful park right next to the hotel. We will do that in every location, source the shower amenities from the local destination to create products for AM and PM for the shower. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, I mean, you could go on. There's so much happening and, you know, when you go in there it's all sort of seamless and a lot of times invisible for what's happening. Katie Tardif: That's a great point. I think that, you know, we all know, I think it's called orthosomnia or the term that everyone's scared about now about the data in your face, and I think that's a real thing. Like, I wear a Garmin, and I look at my sleep score every morning, but I also know my-- you know, your body is the smartest, you know, biometric reader that you have. So I'm really excited about the future of deeply invisible technology that propels an incredibly personalized experience to who you are physiologically. And that's where, you know, we're thinking at a brand level, for where we take this over the next five years. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, that's very interesting. I'd like to look to the future, at the end, but to pull out one thing that you said amongst all that, the beds are all natural. And I'm hoping just for our listeners here, if you could unpack why all natural is so important for people's health? Katie Tardif: Well, yeah. I mean, there's obviously the whole organic natural piece, right, of the toxins and stuff like that that everyone's super aware of for disease and stuff. But also if you have a bed with springs in it, that eventually kind of gives out over time. Springs are also very specific in terms of where it's like from an acupressure standpoint supporting your body. So our bed is made of coconut fiber, horse hair, coconut shells, and it's very aerating. So like you, again, temperature is a huge driver of sleep quality. So it aerates very naturally, but you can sleep next to someone and it's, you're not really going to feel them moving on the other side. Adam Mogelonsky: Wow. Yeah, it's very important from the toxin standpoint. Katie Tardif: Huge. Adam Mogelonsky: So you mentioned Amala and the next property opening in Saudi Arabia. Tell us about how you divide your time? Katie Tardif: Yeah, I mean, were really lucky to be able to work on New York as kind of like the baby for, you know, like this is our firstborn child. We were living and breathing it as the corporate team for a couple years, which was great. We had, you know, we launched right after COVID, which is, you know, a blessing and a curse. I think we came out of it stronger than ever, but we were able to really spend quality time, like understanding the guest journey, the pain points, what guests liked, what they didn't, how to make really complex Equinox experiences extremely seamless for operations, for the guest experience. So we were able to fine-tune this whole, you know high-performance living lifestyle in a lot of detail, which was really fortunate because I think if we had really quickly moved on, if we hadn't had that break, yes, we would have still been able to deliver at an incredibly high level, but we have so much detail now and clarity about exactly what needs to happen. So we went into Amala stronger than ever. You know, it's definitely a different beast, right? It's, it's not the US, right? It's a very complex region, a very complex country that comes with a lot of cultural nuances and things that honestly don't necessarily translate from what's in New York, right? Just, you know, some of the provocative essence of what we can do here is really not even legal there. So we have spent the last two and a half, three years really understanding, like, what is the Middle East? What is Saudi Arabia? What is this new destination? Where are they going, right? Because that's a very important thing for us. We-- As we are pioneering performance luxury as a category, we also are not gonna just show up in a new destination where it is. We want to be the one we are aspirationally aging consumers into, right? So we are okay pushing the limits a little bit, being more on the cutting edge forefront. It's a young country, which is really exciting. 70% of Saudis are all under the age of 30, and they're so hungry for connection and health and wellness and new. So we're really well-positioned to open there, and this is a big one for us. It's, you know, not only our first one outside the US, but it's our first resort. And to me, that is super exciting because New York, you know, you get-- there's a lot of cognitive load there, right? You get a guest that comes in, business traveler, they're there. Our average stay is about two nights, right? A resort, you really get to bend and flex with behavior and habit and how movement, nutrition, and regeneration and community can deliver on kind of almost life-lasting experiences because they're staying for seven, 14, 21 days. And then you have this mega yacht, super yacht marina in the heart of it where our resort sits, in the center of. So we will truly become the beating heart of Triple Bay in this uber-luxury new wellness destination. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. So you launched in New York, a very competitive luxury market, and now you're launching in Amala, which is also gonna be a very competitive luxury market. You mentioned Six Senses, Rosewood, Jaiyasam, another brand coming in. So how do you stand out and how do you market Equinox to be exceptional amongst all these competitors? Katie Tardif: Yeah. It's a great question, right? I mean, we opened in New York intentionally, right? We were on center stage in the entire world, and that was very much a strategic business decision that we made. We were not gonna hide behind a secondary market. We were going in at the apex of where's the central, you know, location in the entire world. So we've proved that out really successfully. We've gotten much more global brand equity as a result of being in New York, which is fantastic. And then now, you know, we're, like I said, we're positioned in and amongst the biggest luxury hospitality lineup in the world, which is amazing, right? It supports-- I see it in a really positive way as supporting the positioning of the brand. But also, you know, not to discredit what those brands are, I mean, they're fantastic, they're powerful, they're there for a reason, but they've become a bit conservative in their positioning. They're sort of the... We don't even actually as a brand use the word wellness. It's kinda just not part of our vocabulary. Wellness is too-- It's soft, it's watered down. It doesn't really carry as much substantive weight anymore, to be honest. So we really lean into health, vibrancy, dynamic, right? These words that power what performance is. And I think if people want to come there to feel their best, to sleep really, just to sleep really well, right? To be in a fun, dynamic environment, to discover spa treatments that they've never heard of and that, you know, they can now take into their monthly, sort of quarterly cadence of things that they do, that's the place to be. It's really about discovery. And I think those, you know, the luxury brands provide incredible service experience to an extent. But they all sort of are delivering more or less the same. And then you have Nomos, which is more of the party brand. Clinique de La Prairie and Jaiyu Some are like the uber clinical ones. Like, again, like I mentioned before, this is a-- Equinox delivers something that is fun and vibrant and exciting, right? It's not boring and it's not medical. So you wanna go there and have like amazing cocktails and dance and have stunning views of the water, but then just sleep really well, that's the place to stay. You know, that's where it's going to deliver you, you know, physical and mental optimization. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. You know, I love that you're doing that. You're removing the word wellness from the positioning and the branding. But that is-- that's a big decision because that's not just a buzzword, however diluted it is, but it's a category definition that impacts SEO, generative engine optimization, and a lot of the other ranking systems that are out there for distribution. So how did you make that decision to steer away from the word wellness? And then how are you guiding the overall marketing and messaging and positioning so that way you still appear at the top of whatever distribution channel there is? Katie Tardif: No, it's a fantastic question, and it's something our agency partners are like, "What?" Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Katie Tardif: Because it's for all the points that you mentioned, a really valid question. But a few years ago when we came out of COVID really strong, we initially started our positioning was high performance luxury lifestyle living, and that was fine. But it wasn't distinct enough for what we were actually delivering. And then we kinda looked at the market, right? And it's just become so saturated with wellness, wellness words, wellness. Half the stuff doesn't even actually deliver any of that stuff, right? So then if you really dissect the essence of what we deliver, it's performance and it's human optimization, really. Human optimization is probably the more kind of scientific way to describe it, but that's really at the purity, at pure level what it is. So, we actually are not wellness, right? I found wellness to be too soft, too saturated, and not actually descriptive and distinct enough for what we were. So we changed the positioning to performance luxury. Luxury of course, right? But high performance, yes, we are still that, but really the simplest way to describe it is performance luxury. In terms of marketing, it's a challenge, right? We still have to be classified as that in projects, right? They'll call us a wellness project, or a wellness brand. But my job as the head of brand is nitpicking every single one of those words out of every place we're mentioned in the press. It drives me nuts. We have a mutual friend, Caroline, who leads our PR, and Caroline will tell you, I am maniacal about not describing us as wellness because we're not, quite frankly. We are performance luxury. And that's why I say we're pioneering this category, right? Because others will start to fit within this mold and they, that, you know, that may so become the buzzword. But like I said, from a marketing lens, we have to sort of still have those words supporting us in the back end. But on the front line, who we are, we are not wellness. Adam Mogelonsky: Right. And yeah, I was gonna say, you know, being nitpicking is very important. You know, it's so important for branding and to ensure that the right message gets across. You know, I'm sure there's some AI workflows that can help you to throw in another buzz term, AI everything. But I'm curious, what are your thoughts on the term longevity? Katie Tardif: I think longevity is a good thing, right? I think why do we not wanna live longer? I think instead of looking at lifespan, a better way to think about longevity is, like, health span, which I'm sure you know, you've heard of, right? Like, who doesn't want to feel Adam Mogelonsky: I know about it, but please tell the readers so we have a definition. Katie Tardif: Yeah, so lifespan is simply how long you live your life, right? You live to 85, 90, 100. Healthspan is how long you live to be fully healthy at your best level, right? So previously, it was much lower than it is today, and longevity and biohacking and all of these incredible research that has done, that has been done to support this industry is extending everyone's healthspan. So that's something that I think Equinox fits really well into. I think, you know, yes, it's totally a buzzword, but I absolutely support it because I want to live as long as I can. I wanna see my parents have an incredible healthspan, right? And, and, I think that this lifestyle is exactly how you do it. And it's also not about, being overly, you know, I can't have-- I'm gonna do this, so I can't have that, right? It's not about... We very much believe in living in the extremes of have the best of everything. Have that martini if you want. Don't deprive yourself, right? Live fully, but live at a really quality level where you're able to amplify every aspect of your life. So I fully support longevity, healthspan, all that stuff. I think it's a great thing. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, you know, you talk about having that martini and of course going back to the ideas of community and having a great dinner with family. I'm reminded of the term joy span. Have you heard this term? Katie Tardif: I haven't. I'd love to hear about it though. Adam Mogelonsky: So joy span, everything is a span now. There's wealth span, there's, you know, right now there's a housefly going around, so you could say annoying span, or, you know, whatever. But Katie Tardif: annoying span down. Adam Mogelonsky: yeah. So joy span is basically, if you think about from an emotional state of mind, how, why do we need more health in the first place? And it's to live life, to be a bon vivant, or to have experiences that we share, moments of wonder. You know, to be fully present with your family and for your family to be fully present with you so you can laugh together, go traveling together. And so if you think of the whole effort of longevity in layers, you have lifespan extending the total number of chronological years, healthspan improving your biological age if we want to use an invisible measurement, and then joy span above it, this whole idea of saying, "Well, what's the purpose of just living longer and better if you don't have these moments to really enjoy everything that this pale blue dot has given us and will continue to give us?" So that's sort of my rambling definition of joy span. I'm sure the lady who wrote the book can give you a more concise one. But therein, knowing this rambling definition, what are your thoughts on how Equinox Hotels induces and helps with moments of joy in people's lives to thereby extend joy span? Katie Tardif: that's a great, kind of concept that I need to explore because I mean, at the end of the day, you know, you see all these videos of people in their 80s and 90s and 100s, and it's just so simple. It's like you wanna l- feel loved and be loved, right? And that's really, that's ultimately what life is about. I think, you know, something I've gotten really excited about in the last couple years is the psychology behind performance. I just brought in the gentleman who was the lead cognitive psychologist for the Navy SEALs right after 9/11 to start to actually build out a performance psychology program for us. I can't really share too much about it right now because it's very much under works. But, and then I entered into a master's in sports and performance psychology 'cause I'm just like, at the end of the day, psychologically, we are all beings who wanna connect and feel our best. And yes, the body is the mechanism in which you physically make those things happen, but cognitively, that's where our happiness and sense of self and consciousness lies, right? So I think the next, you know, real frontier for us is performance psychology, from a cognition standpoint. Because if you are focused, if you have clarity, if you have less cognitive load, those are all things that add to point about joy span, right? And then you, inject the Equinox ethos into that, right, especially the community aspect, then you have something that's so amplifying in terms of like inspiration and aspiration, right? you have the wherewithal and the bandwidth to connect with the environment that you're sitting within. I was reading a study recently that has just become declassified by the CIA called the Gateway Experiment, and it's essentially achieving extremely high levels of conscious awareness. And then I started to connect it to other research, and the thing that actually blocks our ability to be fully conscious beings, like this is again, still rudimentary in its, in its early days of research, but is apparently GABA, which is the thing that helps focus. So when a baby's born, it has very high levels of GABA, right? It only just focuses on that. And so when your levels of GABA go down, you actually become much more connected consciously to the environment. So I think that there's a lot of really interesting work that will evolve around this whole consciousness movement that will support joy span for sure. Adam Mogelonsky: Fun aside, you know, when you think of the consciousness movement, my mind sort of goes to, you know, those resorts down south that are the ayahuasca and psilocybin and cacao ceremony retreats. could Equinox ever get involved in those under the guise of performance? Katie Tardif: At the moment, I'm gonna say no. You know, but I- it's not a no forever, right? You-- there's so much interesting work that is being done in that field and, and also you know, how people bypass the ability to not feel depressed anymore or to get out of ruminating thoughts, right? There's so much being done around psilocybin and LSD and everything you just said, ayahuasca, that is proving out a really s- fast and powerful way to do this. I don't think it's on our, in our pipeline, unfortunately, for the moment, but, you know, never say never Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Well, it was just a fun aside because you mentioned that you're, you're reading scientific papers, and that's, in essence, that's your, your job is to go right to the source of what's being researched with these, um... You know, psilocybin is being researched for that, as is, uh, the two chemicals in ayahuasca, and then distill that and make an evaluation, yes, no, for, uh, a regular hotel stay, understanding that hote- uh, hotel guests can be anywhere in the journey, uh, towards health span and joy span. So that all said, you also mentioned you have a master's, and you're a certified mental performance coach. Uh, tell us about, about this and how you're applying that to, um, the internal culture at Equinox or to hotel guests as well. Katie Tardif: Yeah. So I'm in the master's now. In the spring I will get the certified mental performance consultant, certification, which is super exciting. And then I'm starting to think about the PhD route, but it's so intimidating. But I'm like, it's one of those things where I feel like once you have the check, you have that check, right? So because ultimately at the end of the day, like part of why I joined this team was because I am so excited about where this whole industry is going, and I really believe that the psychology and the performance psych aspect of psychology is an incredibly untapped, mechanism in which wellness brands, to use air quotes, can deliver something that's more powerful. And they're not really even think about, thinking about it. They'll-- The entire sports and performance psychology is geared to either supporting elite military operators, so Navy SEALs, fighter pilots, or pro and Olympic athletes. No one is thinking about how you democratize this and bring it to the masses to support people to just feel better in life. yes, the quick, mental health mindfulness treatments, and I'm not talking about meditation, but like stuff that spas offer to support mindfulness, that's all great, but they're a bit fleeting, right? If you want to psychologically change, you need to know how to do that, and you need to train to do that. But the exciting thing is it doesn't take, it doesn't take years. It takes a few weeks, right? No one's born with the ability to understand how to focus or refocus, right? These are all things you train, and I think that's really, a huge untapped opportunity, but really where I see the next frontier of how we pioneer what performance luxury can deliver. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, and you know, it's interesting you say that, uh, it's something that can be built relatively, over a s- relatively short period of time and then has those points of extension. And where I see a lot of hotels getting ahead, like Equinox, is you have this incredible onsite stay that then inspires people to live better back at home. So can you talk to us about how Equinox is inspiring that, but also perhaps through the lens of a CRM and, um, how you can continue that great hotel experience well after the guest has checked out? Katie Tardif: Yeah, it's a, it's something actually we had a very exciting meeting about this week is this sort of almost like, again, invisible type of technology that propels the experience beyond the physical product. and that's where we're really gonna start to focus our efforts on how you continue to deliver this outside of the clubs, outside of the hotels. but again, going back to just simple, you know, hospitality, um, it's, You look at the guest journey that we've built and it's so intentional around these are tons of micro, mino, mini-- tons of micro and mini journeys that each guest can choose based on the things that resonate with them. So you walk away with something and you're like, "Wow, this made me feel unbelievable. I need to go do this on a regular basis," right? Or, "I'm gonna invest more heavily into a pillow because yeah, maybe it's $300, but I'm gonna have this pillow for three years," right? "So that's gonna earn me my money back with how much better I will sleep as a result of it." Um, "Oh, I'm super actually interested in connecting and being around more vibrant people. How can I find more communities that way?" So these micro journeys that we've created, I think are really exciting aspirationally to the guests because they can all leave with something that's kind of touched them in a different way that is, is-- they feel like, "Okay, I want this more as part of my life." And the return guests obviously are all amazing, right? They come back and they, you know... the people I would tell you that stay with us, right, it's incredible. I mean, heads of hospitality divisions choose to stay with us over their own brands. but then, and then more simply, right, our, you know, the, the simple stuff like social media, we try to really tell stories about the evocative essence of the human experience, right? Yes, seeing shots of the lobbies and the rooms are all great, but we wanna tell those experience stories that get people excited to live at the highest level. And then we have our sleep shop. You can always take the whole room product home with you if you want. so yeah, but I mean, I think there's a lot of exploration and opportunity to deliver something beyond how the guest, you know, experiences the brand beyond the physical product. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. And now to get excited about the future, uh, we talked about New York, we talked about Amala. We also have another resort opening in the Caribbean. Tell us, uh, briefly about that one Katie Tardif: Yeah. So our Anguilla resort is absolutely stunning. I think this is the project I'm most excited about. For one, there's a quick direct flight from New York and most other, like, major markets in the US, which is super exciting. But it's, um, an entire superyacht, uh, Equinox marina. So you have about 110 superyacht berths in there. There'll be 66, uh, Equinox resorts, and then we have a big residential component as well. Our own, port of entry, customs entry and exit. And so to me, that is like the apex of, like, the Equinox experience, right? You have guests that are gonna not only live there, right, but come down and probably stay there for a month at a time to be like, "I just wanna feel amazing in a stunning destination." So that one is super exciting. Residences have become a pretty big part of the Equinox business in the last couple years, so this has a resi- residential piece, which is fantastic. And these are buyers who have, you know, three, four, multiple homes. but at the same time, they're melding with that, you know, the, the guests who come down to stay at the resort for a couple weeks. So again, you get this really cool, interesting mix of community. The fitness club aspect will have really cool personal experiences for all the superyachters. And it, it's a very, um, like, kinda sporty, elevated, fun environment Adam Mogelonsky: Wow. And you have more resorts on the way, but we have to stay sorta hush-hush about them. They'll all come out in the future, and you'll be planning some masterpiece of, uh, press releases around that. Katie Tardif: Yes. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. So, to sort of finish off here, we talked earlier about these invisible technologies and where biohacking is gonna be in five years' time, and where the idea of a performance mindset is gonna be in five years' time. tell us your overall thoughts, uh, what you envision it looks like, and how Equinox fits into the picture Katie Tardif: Yeah. So I think there's a few things that get me really excited. I think, you know, performance as architecture is one, especially when we are designing residences, right? How do you create, how do you build health and, you know, wellness and technology into that experience so it's so seamless it just becomes part of how your whole life is optimized? That's-- It sounds, it sounds simple, but it's, uh, it's more complicated than you'd imagine, and we're going through it right now as we build out a couple of our residences in the Middle East. I think to touch on that, just the residences in and of themselves, an Equinox residence, if you look at the trajectory of the brand, right? It was, "Okay, here's a two to three-hour fitness concept." 10 years ago, we took that and turned it into a 24-hour luxury hospitality one. Now we've turned it into a, an entire lifestyle e- as an Equinox resident. So that is super exciting to me because that's another, I think, apex moment for how the brand really flourishes in its best. you know, invisible personalization and technology, the things that I don't need to have a watch or, a screen in front of me to tell me how I'm feeling or to tell me what I'm doing. It's really integrated, and it's integrated at my level physiologically and biometrically, right? But you don't need to be flashed those details. And again, that's a complicated thing, but I think it's a task that as, uh, as this brand we have to achieve and invest in. and then I think, like, social health is a really cool and exciting thing, right? Like thermal bathing and these more community-driven things where maybe I was at the spa by myself, but now I'm actually sitting there with a bunch of people, and it just becomes more, again, of like that shared mindset and shared life 'cause obviously, you know, we all know this, at the end of the day, you wanna be connected, and you wanna feel good, and you wanna speak to people who inspire you, and I think that's a big part of it too. So those are the things I'm excited about and that we're, you know, are on our roadmap. Complicated but, you know, I think we're very much in the camp of, like, doing something really well and nailing it and not just being additive to be additive, right? And then sleep expansion, right? Sleep is architecture. Sleep and how you live and breathe, but sleep and how the whole 24-hour day is programmed to support your circadian rhythm. So that's, that's what I'm excited about. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, a lot to look forward to and, uh, subject of a whole other hour to diagnose terms like sleep architecture and, uh, chronobiology, uh, ultradian cycles, everything. To close out here, Katie, is there anything important that we haven't talked about or any other trends that you want to highlight? Katie Tardif: No, I don't think so. I think we really nailed everything. I would say, you know, a misconception I think sometimes about the brand is like you have to have a, a six-pack and you're only gonna drink, you know, smoothies if you come to an Equinox, and that's just not true. if you come to our hotel, you really can just feel the best, you know, at every level. It's about feeling mentally and physically optimized, regenerated, slept well. So if you simply just wanna sleep or if you wanna have fun, we are the place for that, right? It's not, I think it's more, inclusive than we're probably perceived as. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. No, and that's a, a very important point to really highlight, uh, where you're headed with performance luxury and defining that category. Katie Tardif: Yep, absolutely. Thanks so much, Adam. It was a great conversation Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Thanks, Katie. Thanks for coming on.