Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Raising Kids Who Can Handle Hard Things [with Ant Williams]

Transcript

Raising Kids Who Can Handle Hard Things [with Ant Williams] · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. I know it's
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: just been Mother's Day and I'm not supposed to get
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: that excited about September and Father's Day yet. But if
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: you have a man in your life, a hubby, a father,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: a dad who doesn't like to read, I've got the
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: perfect Father's Day present.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: It's a book.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I know that sounds weird, but I've just finished reading
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: the most amazing book and I've reached out to the
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: author and asked if he would come on my podcast,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: and he said yes. The book is called Let It
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Be Tough. It's the story of Aunt Williams, a two
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: time world record holder in ice diving. And when I
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: say ice diving, I'm talking long breath holds, diving seventy
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: plus meters under the ice, or swimming one hundred and
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: eighty plus meters under an ice shelf. I mean, this
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: stuff is extreme, it's frightening. Let It Be Tough is
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: about mental toughness, it's about resilience. It's gripping. Oh my goodness,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I couldn't put it down. I read it in like
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: two reading sessions and we're talking two hundred and eighty
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: pages of writing like that. This is a proper book
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: and it just has so many great stories and and
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: is going to join me next to talk about his book,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Let It Be Tough, and also why every dad needs
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: this for Father's Day in September. Get it now though,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk to Aunt next on the Happy
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Families podcast. Stay with us, good day. Welcome to the
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast, where you get real parenting solutions every
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: single day. This is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. Mina's
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: doctor Justin Colson, and today I'm joined by a good
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: friend of mine, but also somebody that I've looked up
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: to from the minute that I met him because of
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: the extraordinary life that he's lived and the things that
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: he's done. And now it's published in a memoir called
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Let It Be Tough. Aunt William's Welcome to Happy Family's podcast.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: Thank you Justin. What an amazing introduction. It's absolutely pleasure
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: to be here.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: There are some people who when you spend time with them,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: they elevate you, they enlarge you, They just make you
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: feel like you're a better person, or you can be
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: a better person than who you are. You're one of
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: those people for me, and I wish we've got to
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: spend more time together. I think you and I talk
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: to each other maybe once or twice a year, and
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: we get together face to face once every five years.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: So I'm really delighted to have you on the podcast.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: You've heard my introduction, you know how much I've raved
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: about the book, So let's just crack straight into it.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I want to start with a question. You've dived under
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: the ice to seventy how many meters? Seventy seventy Yeah,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: something like seventy meters, So that means that you've held
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: your breath and swum one hundred and forty meters because
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: you had to get down there, and then you had
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: to get back up, and you had to get back
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: up to the same hole that you went into because
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: you're on an ice lake in the Arctic Circle. And
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: then you swam the longest distance ever swum under the ice,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty two meters, performed in total darkness,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: in essentially as close to zero degree order as you
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: can get. You've coached big wave surfers, Moto GP riders,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: extreme sports competitors. Are you a thrill seekert?
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: No, definitely not a thrill seekert.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Sorry, everybody just spilt their coffee when you said no, right.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: Well, I can understand from the outside and looking at
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: what I do and making that very quick assumption that
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: I am a risk taker. Well, no, to use your words,
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: that I'm a thrill seeker, someone who's quite reckless. But
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: actually it couldn't be further from the truth. I see
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: myself as someone who does take positive, calculated risks. But
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: what you don't see is just how controlled it is,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: how much preparation goes in, how many years of practice
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: and training and development goes in to get to the
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: point where you can progressively learn how to take on
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: these types of challenges, and there's we're all magic and
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: doing it. Once you get to that point, there are
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: incredibly thrilling adventures to be able to go and have.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: And so no, I don't see myself as someone who's
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: a thrill seeker. I'm just someone who loves to put
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: themselves into unique challenges and engineer everything around it so
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: that I can perform at my best despite the pressures
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: that I'm putting myself under.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I look at the story of your life. You're a
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: sports psychologist. You found yourself in the deep and coaching
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: extreme sports people. In fact, you found yourself in a
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: very deep end when you were literally put in front
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: of a room of football players with no notice whatsoever,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: and supposed to motivate them to get through a game
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: that they were convinced they were going to lose, the
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: high stakes game. The whole book, Let It Be Tough,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: is about performing under pressure, performing under pressure in many cases,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: in life threatening, death defying situations. But right now, as
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: a parenting expert, and this is the reason that I
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: got you on here, like we can talk about your
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: extraordinary exploits, I just want people to read the book.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: It's so much fun. But the thing that I'm coming
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: up against again and again and again almost daily as
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: parents who say my kids don't want to do hard things.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: My kids they feel a little bit of pressure and
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: they shrink, they hide behind my legs, and then they
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: look at me with serious expressions and say things like
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I want my three year old to do better, But.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: I think you're onto something. Yeah, Well, whether.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: They're three or thirteen or twenty three, parents are consistently
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: saying that their kids are not resilient like we were.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Now there is some data to support that. I actually
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: think that Quite often we forget just how nervous we
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: were when we were in certain situations, and how much
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: we didn't want to do things, and how many things
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: we probably bailed on. But consistently, I don't want to
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: go to school. I don't want to go to school camp.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I don't want to do the oral presentation. I don't
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: want to do the exam. I don't want to try
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: out for the team. I don't want to try out
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: for the theater. This stuff comes up again and again
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: and again, using all of your psychology background, your sports psyche,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: you're working with extreme athletes, your own under pressure performance requirements.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: What one or two things that jump out at you
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: as things that parents might do to help their kids
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: when they're facing pressure and they're saying, I can't, I can't,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: it's too hard.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: Well, I think the first thing is that parents, as parents,
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: we play such a vital role in shaping their response
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: to pressure. I mean, we all want our kids to
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: participate in things that they enjoy and also encourage them
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: through those moments of things that when they start to
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: get tough. So it might be the life saving tournament
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: we're a way through a little bit bigger today, it
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: might be the exam where they just think, I'm no
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: good at mathematics and all these situations, how we respond
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: is so critical. We want them to be able to
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: cope in those moments, and it's going to have such
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: a big character building effect on them in that moment
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: and through their lives. These are skills that they're going
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: to take for the rest of their life, and so
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: what we do in terms of how we work with
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: them to participate, encourage and support them is huge. We
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: want them to be able to make mistakes and errors,
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: stuffer losses and failures, and normalize it. We want that
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: to be okay. It's just part of life skills and
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: learning how to cope when things don't go your way,
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: and so we need to be there to support them
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: and challenge them and encourage them. But we've got to
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: get this balance right to what extent we push them
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: into things versus take a backseat where it's more my
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: role is to encourage and to make sure that they're
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: challenging themselves without overstepping their mark. So, like, I love
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: the question your post, So what do we do? So
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: I think the first thing that we do is we
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: need to get this balance right between challenging them and
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: supporting them. So if your parent that always says, oh,
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: you don't have to do it, if this makes you
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: feel uncomfortable, then our level of challenge is too low.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of like the parent who says, your
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: emotions should be what guides all of our decisions.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: So if we're allowing the child to their emotions to
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: guide all the decisions, then then what's the child learning
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: in this? What's the child going to steer towards? It's
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: going to stare towards you being the person who risk
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: is them and comes in has a shield, but we don't.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: We don't want you as a shield. We want you
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: as a safety net if they're in there and things
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: do go wrong, But we don't want you as a
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: shield because the shield gets.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: In the way.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: It's like you become the crush. You take over the
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: responsibility if things are uncomfortable or I don't like them.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: The analogy that I always use here is that there
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: are dragons in everyone's lives, and our children have got
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: to go and slay the dragon. And if we keep
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: running forward with the shield and the sorder and slaying
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: the dragon for the kids then they don't get But
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: they've of course got to decide that this is a
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: dragon worth slaying as well. Right, Like, they're not going
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: to go and they're not going to go and fight
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: a dragon that we've decided we've picked for them. They've
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: got to have some say in it.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: There's always the risk of these parents.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: We push our kids into the things that we love,
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: r that we were good at, yes, right, because we
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: live vicariously through seeing them succeed in these things. But
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: if they don't enjoy it, they're like less, far less
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: likely to be pushing through and being resilient in the
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: moments where those things get tough.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Whereas if it's something that they.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: Genuinely want to succeed, I want to get better out
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: the social group of other kids doing this thing. Is
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: there people, and they relate to the far more likely
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: without as much support from you to learn all these
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: lessons in a refaivorful way.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Hey, we need to take a quick break. But after
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: the break, what I think might be the toughest question
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: every parent will face when they're underpressure themselves and the
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: kids are watching. That's next stay with us. We're back
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: into the Happy Families podcast. I'm talking today to Aunt Williams,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: the author of Let It Be Tough, which if you
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: have not already jotted it down and we will into
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: it in the show notes. But if you haven't put
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: it down on your list for I need to buy
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: this for my hobby or my partner or my dad
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: or somebody for Father's Day, it should be on the
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: top of your list. It's just that's the best. Don't
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: even wait for Father's Day. It'spy today, like I haven't
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: read by the weekend. It's that good anyway. And I
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: want to hit you up with a couple of lightning
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: round questions because these are my favorite interview questions. They're
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: the ones where you really don't want to pick aside,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: you really want to come in with it. It depends
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: and start to extrapolate, but you're allowed. They've got like
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: five seconds as few words as possible to answer the question.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: I'm ready, let's go.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Your kid is melting down in the supermarket, perform under
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: pressure or quietly abandoned the trolley, and pretend you don't know.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: Them, Stay with them, stay really present, but don't console
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: to the point where they get away with it, and
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: find a chance later in a moment where the emotions
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: have run down to be able to reflect on it
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: with them.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: The next one tricky one, but best pressure building experience
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: that you can give a child that doesn't involve some
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: sort of organized sport.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: Look, I think expose you to challenge in any area
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: is going to be helpful as long as it's a
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: manageable step for them. Kids need evidence to know that
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: they can build their confidence right, So they need evidence
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: that things are working that they can push through. So
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: don't make it too tough too soon. Give them small
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: steps and let them see for themselves.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Finish this sentence. The most underrated thing that parents can do,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: most underrated thing that parents can do to raise resilient
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: kids is.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: Let them see you taking on challenges and staying calm
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: and composed, but also sharing your real fears.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: So don't hide it.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: Actually say well, actually think out loud for them, Well,
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: this is terrifying.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: I'm going to give it a go anyway.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: A parent who wraps their kid in cotton wool versus
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: a parent who throws them in the deep end, who's
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: doing more damage long term?
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: The person who wraps them in cotton wool and I
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: know that's controversial because the other obviously has the we
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: have a visceral reaction to the parent who pushes too
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: hard on their kids. But if I were to pick
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: between one of these for my kids, I would say
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: I would rather push them a little bit too hard
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: than wrap them in cotton wool and see them fail
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: to learn the most virtual lessons that life is going
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: to challenge them on on how to stay resilient and
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: how to cope with anxiety.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: I love your response there. Okay, you and I could
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: talk for days. In fact, when we get together, we
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: definitely feel like we can talk for days. And the
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: last question today, because this is our podcast for time
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: for parents who just want answers now, is this. Kids
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: are always watching how we respond to pressure. You are
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: the perform under pressure guy. You're the guy who says,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: let it be tough. What are some simple ways that
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: parents can model a healthy response to challenge in setbacks?
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Because we all experience them every single day, whether it's
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: getting cut off in traffic, which is minor, but sometimes
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: when it happens, we act like it's not minor. It's major,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: through to either a diagnosis or the loss of a job,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: or an intera ability to pay a mortgage, or cost
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: of living or I mean, it's just such a long list.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: What are the best ways that we can model healthy
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: responses to these challenges and setbacks?
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: Well, firstly, I think just that mine's set of knowing
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: that we must stay composed when things go wrong. Our
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: reaction becomes their templation. So what we do is going
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: to show up for them right throughout their lives. It's
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: the reality. I work with leaders who still struggle. Like
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: the number one thing I'm teaching leaders last fifteen years
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: is how to have a difficult conversation without getting too emotional.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: Is how to give someone feedback on the performance without
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: marking or hiding the things that you don't actually like
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: about the performance. It's all these things, right, So we
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: need to make sure that we have the sense of
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: calm about us when we're going through those moments right
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: for ourselves. So when we get cut off in traffic,
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: that sort of thing. There's a couple of things that
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: you can do. There's this really simple thing that I'd
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: like to encourage people to do. When you know you
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: face moments of stress, I'm going to stick with your
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: example justin so You've got a forty five minute commute
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: to drop the kids at school and then get to work.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: And you know that when someone cuts you off in traffic,
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: you get it's a trigger for you, right, So what
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: you do is, at the start of that, you go, today,
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be like a fish swimming in an ocean,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: and as I was swimming through this ocean, there are
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: going to be all these lines, fish lines coming down
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: with hooks on them, and I'm my job is to
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: spot those fish hooks. Today when I'm driving through traffic,
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: it'll be the car that swears in front of me
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: without indicating. It'll be the guy who wins down his
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: window and yells some abuse at me, or the person
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: who's right on my butt algating me. And I'm going
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: to go, that's a fish hook. And if I bite that,
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: I'm out of the game. And my kids are going
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: to go, oh, Dad's someone who always clears up and
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: gets angry, and maybe that's what we're supposed to do.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: So instead, I'm going to swim around those fish hooks,
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: recognize those a fish hooks. Because I'm the one who's
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: in control of my emotional reaction to what's happening around me.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: No one else can control that but me. And therefore,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: if I don't bite a fish hook, I get to
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: the school drop off and I feel great. I get
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: to work and I feel relaxed. That is the outcome
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: I want to start my day.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Don't bite the hook. I love it so simple, so simple,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: so simple, And it's also the kind of thing that
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: you can teach kids when they're fighting with each other
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: and squabbling. And thanks so much for being with me
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: and for making my day by sharing your stories and
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: your insights that can help parents. On the Happy Families podcast.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: Oh thank you, justin thank you so much for your
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: generous praise about my stories and my book.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: I hope fathers enjoy it.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: Incidentally, I think I've got a suspicion that more females
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: are buying this book than men at this stage. So
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: it's a good read, doesn't matter father day of coming
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: up or whatnot.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't mean to just put it straight into
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: a box there. My wife Kylie has also spent considerable
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: time in this book and loved it and was blown
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: away by the stories, so that we will link to
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Let it be Tough by Aunt Williams in the show notes.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: I recommend it highly.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Nim Hammonds provides our research and additional support, and if
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