Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / The Friendship Advice Experts Swear By

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The Friendship Advice Experts Swear By · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Happy Families podcast. The research
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: is bleak. Approximately seventeen percent one in six Australians aged
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: fifteen and above reports feeling lonely. Social isolation is high.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, with young people between fifteen and twenty five,
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  Speaker 1: forty three percent say that they are lonely. Now, if
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  Speaker 1: you compare that to historical trends, historically it was always
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  Speaker 1: the older Australians that were the loneliest. But we keep
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  Speaker 1: on seeing younger and younger people feeling lonely. The thing is,
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  Speaker 1: it's not just young people and.
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  Speaker 2: It's not just old people.
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  Speaker 1: It's kind of everybody because everybody is what's the word,
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  Speaker 1: Oh that's right, so busy well. Today on the Happy
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  Speaker 1: Families podcasts, we share some advice, not so much for
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  Speaker 1: the kids, but for us as adults on how we
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  Speaker 1: can strengthen relationships, build relationships and make friendships feel fantastic.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Stay with us.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families podcast, where you get
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: real parenting solutions, real well beeat solutions every single day.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: This is Australia's most download parenting podcast. We are Justin
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: and Kylie Colson. Kylie, we've experienced loneliness We've moved house
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  Speaker 1: a number of times, including several interstate moves over the decades,
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  Speaker 1: and we've had to start again. We've had to make
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  Speaker 1: friends many, many times today on the Pod, three ideas
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  Speaker 1: to help make friendships happen when you're a grown up
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  Speaker 1: and reaching out can feel a little bit tricky.
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  Speaker 3: In the early stages when you and I were moving
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  Speaker 3: fairly regularly on.
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  Speaker 1: My radio career, yeah, Yupoon Rockampton, Brisbane, one of all
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  Speaker 1: Newcastle back to Brisbane.
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  Speaker 2: Yep.
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  Speaker 3: I was super blessed with a very gregarious eighteen month
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  Speaker 3: old little girl who just loved people.
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  Speaker 2: Yep, yep. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: We would literally go to the park and by the
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  Speaker 3: time we had finished at the park, she had dragged
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  Speaker 3: me over to meet some mum and we became friends.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: We would say let's meet up at the park tomorrow.
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  Speaker 3: Our kids got on really well, and then we'd meet
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  Speaker 3: up at the park the next day, and then the
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  Speaker 3: next day, and before you knew it.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's unusual. I've got to say, like, I don't.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think that's still happening.
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  Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think it happens very often at all.
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  Speaker 1: We kind of retreat to our phones, the kids are playing,
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  Speaker 1: we folks on the kids, then we folks on our phone.
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  Speaker 1: Then we get out of there before anybody puts us
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  Speaker 1: in an uncomfortable position. Makes things feel a little bit awkward.
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  Speaker 3: We watched that happen literally in the lift the other day.
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  Speaker 3: We got in the lift and somebody else got in,
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  Speaker 3: and as soon as they realized there was somebody else
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  Speaker 3: in the lift, they pulled their phone out so they
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  Speaker 3: didn't have to make eye contact or small.
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  Speaker 1: They almost got back out of the lift, except the
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  Speaker 1: door was closing and they were a little bit too
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  Speaker 1: late for that. There's going to be a guest on
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  Speaker 1: the Heavy Families podcast soon who talks about how human
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  Speaker 1: socialization works. I'm going to be interviewing him just in
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  Speaker 1: the next few days. The interview will show up shortly.
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  Speaker 1: But he had this fascinating study where he stopped people
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  Speaker 1: as I were getting on the train in Pennsylvania heading
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  Speaker 1: into New York City for work. And you've been on
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  Speaker 1: the train in New York City, nobody talks. Everybody sits there.
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  Speaker 1: It's kind of scary, except for the people who were
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  Speaker 1: dancing or singing or going a litt bit crazy.
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  Speaker 3: But except for the night we sat on the train
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  Speaker 3: and this guy literally fell asleep.
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  Speaker 2: When you were shot.
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  Speaker 1: Well, there was that as well. Yeah, and then there
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  Speaker 1: are the times where we've started conversations with people because
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  Speaker 1: we've been a bit lost, a little bit uncertain about
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  Speaker 1: what's going on. But generally speaking, people don't talk to
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  Speaker 1: random strangers on public transport. And this researcher, he would
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  Speaker 1: say to people, I want to do a quick well
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  Speaker 1: being test. Can you fill in this or can you
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  Speaker 1: tell me? Can you answer these three questions about your
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  Speaker 1: well being? And then he would literally say, when you
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  Speaker 1: get on the train, I'd like you to talk to somebody,
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  Speaker 1: talk to a stranger, have a chat, have a random
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  Speaker 1: conversation with somebody. How do you feel about that? And
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  Speaker 1: people were just consistently saying, no way, this is nuts.
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  Speaker 2: I don't feel comfortable. This does not feel nice.
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  Speaker 1: And you're like, well, do it and give me a number,
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  Speaker 1: and I want to follow up and see how it went.
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  Speaker 1: And what he found was invariably people who did it
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  Speaker 1: reported higher levels of well being. Like we just we
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  Speaker 1: crave connection. We love it when we go down to
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  Speaker 1: the local cafe and they know our name and they
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  Speaker 1: call out our name and they've got our order right,
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  Speaker 1: or when they see us and they smile in their
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  Speaker 1: eyes light up because they know who we are and
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  Speaker 1: that we're a regular.
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  Speaker 2: Whatever it is, we crave.
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  Speaker 1: Connection, and yet we seem to push away from it.
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  Speaker 1: So three things, Three things that can make a really
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  Speaker 1: big difference in building relationships. I want to start with
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  Speaker 1: the magic number fifty hours. So there's a researcher at
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  Speaker 1: the University of Kansas, professor Jeff Hall, found that it
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  Speaker 1: takes roughly fifty hours of time to move from mere
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  Speaker 1: acquaintance to casual friend, ninety hours to go from that
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  Speaker 1: stage to friend status, and more than two hundred hours
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  Speaker 1: before you can consider someone you's close friend. That's what
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  Speaker 1: we're up against. You have to put in the time.
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  Speaker 3: So what I love about this is the tension we
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  Speaker 3: have around getting comfortable with being uncomfortable when we're starting
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  Speaker 3: a relationship. No matter what it is, a romantic relationship,
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  Speaker 3: a friendship, an acquaintance, a work colleague, whatever, there is
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  Speaker 3: always a level of uncomfortability that comes with the new connection.
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  Speaker 1: Well, because that means that you're starting to expose yourself
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  Speaker 1: a little bit vulnerability sharing things about your life. Am
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  Speaker 1: I going to be rejected. How fragile are they? How
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  Speaker 1: fragile am I? Are they going to say something weird?
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  Speaker 1: There's all of these things that you're constantly thinking about.
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  Speaker 1: What happens if they like somebody politically that I don't
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  Speaker 1: like what?
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  Speaker 3: Or you just have an awkward silence and you don't
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  Speaker 3: know how to fill it, or you run out of questions,
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  Speaker 3: or the other person doesn't seem interested. Yeah, you know,
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  Speaker 3: like there's all of these things that are quite benign
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  Speaker 3: in and of themselves. We overinterpret them, but we do
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  Speaker 3: overinterpret them, and we don't like the feeling of being
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  Speaker 3: uncomfortable or not feeling in control of the situation. And
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  Speaker 3: we also take rejection in the moment as something personal
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  Speaker 3: as opposed to the realization that it might just be
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  Speaker 3: poor timing, there might be other things going on in
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  Speaker 3: their life at the moment. But we make it much
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  Speaker 3: bigger than it is.
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  Speaker 1: So if everyone's so busy, it's really hard to find
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  Speaker 1: fifty hours to spend with somebody.
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  Speaker 3: And it's fifty intentional hours, right, You don't go and
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  Speaker 3: watch fifty hours of TV together, No, it's not going
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  Speaker 3: to build a relationship.
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  Speaker 2: Correct.
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  Speaker 1: Let me give an example of this though, the homeschool group.
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  Speaker 1: First few times you shout up to the homeschool group,
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  Speaker 1: nobody was really chatting with you. You weren't sure how
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  Speaker 1: you could break your way into the mums that were
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  Speaker 1: all chatting. But of time, as you built up that
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  Speaker 1: fifty hours, you became.
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  Speaker 3: My life lying like literally my life.
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  Speaker 2: Have become that now. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely, And it's the same whether you're in a church
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  Speaker 1: group or in a workspace or at the local sports club,
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  Speaker 1: surf club, whatever.
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  Speaker 2: It is that you're doing.
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  Speaker 1: When you put the hours in, that's when the relationship develops.
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  Speaker 1: If you don't put the hours in, you never create
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  Speaker 1: the depth that's required. Again, I just find this fascinating
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  Speaker 1: fifty hours to go from oh, yeah I know this
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  Speaker 1: person to yeah, we're friends or we're casual friends, like
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  Speaker 1: we can catch up. But it's somewhere closer to one
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  Speaker 1: hundred hours before you're like, hey, I want to send
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  Speaker 1: you a text and share this thing with.
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  Speaker 2: You that I saw because I know that you'd really
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  Speaker 2: like and that's really funny.
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  Speaker 1: Or two hundred hours where you're saying, hey, let's get
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  Speaker 1: our families together and catch up and really hang out.
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  Speaker 3: And you know what, I've just had a really really
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  Speaker 3: bad day and I just need a debrief with someone.
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  Speaker 1: Yep, yep, exactly two hundred hours, So time you've got
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  Speaker 1: to put the time in, otherwise the relationship doesn't work
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  Speaker 1: after the break. I want to share what I think
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  Speaker 1: is the most important way for us as adults and
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  Speaker 1: probably frankly for our children as well, to build meaningful friendships,
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  Speaker 1: especially if we're feeling lonely.
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  Speaker 2: Stay with Hello.
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  Speaker 1: We're back with a Happy Families podcast. If you're enjoying
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: the podcast, please share it with the friend Please like it,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Please share it?
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Please? What is it?
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Five star ratings and reviews? We really love those ones.
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  Speaker 1: They make a difference for people finding the pod. Kylie,
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  Speaker 1: here's my second idea. This is the big one for me.
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  Speaker 1: I call it aggressive friendship. Aggressive friendship.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I push back on that, because can.
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  Speaker 2: I just get another very aggressive on you to push back?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah? All right, carry on.
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  Speaker 1: Let me tell you what I mean by that. Maybe
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  Speaker 1: a friendly a phrase would be don't wait initiate.
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  Speaker 2: What I'm sort of saying.
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  Speaker 3: Is I think that everybody's been in a situation where
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  Speaker 3: there's been somebody who hasn't taken no for an answer.
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  Speaker 3: That to me is aggressive friendship. It's someone who is
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  Speaker 3: desperate to be in your circle, and there is They're
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  Speaker 3: just it doesn't feel good.
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  Speaker 2: When you say that. I feel like the close talker
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  Speaker 2: who's getting in your y. Yeah. Ye, yes, what I mean.
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  Speaker 3: So that's why I'm pushing that.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, so don't wait initiate being a being a
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  Speaker 1: gentle nag.
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  Speaker 2: Is what I mean.
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  Speaker 3: So I hear you say that, I'm going.
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  Speaker 2: Are you coming?
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  Speaker 3: I can think of a handful of people that I
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  Speaker 3: actually really love spending time with. Every time we bump
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  Speaker 3: into each other accidentally at the shops, we haven't we
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  Speaker 3: haven't planned it. We just we happen to bump into
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  Speaker 3: each other. Yeah, both light up. We're so excited to
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  Speaker 3: see each other. And we stand around for fifteen twenty
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  Speaker 3: minutes and we have a quick chat and catch up
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  Speaker 3: and then we and then we literally leave the conversation
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  Speaker 3: with we have to catch up. Let's do it.
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  Speaker 1: We have a neighbor literally across the road, and every
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  Speaker 1: time I see them, I'm like, oh, Nick, Caroline, we've
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  Speaker 1: got to spend time together. Every time we see them
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  Speaker 1: out on the road, we end up having like a
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  Speaker 1: thirty minute chat in the driveway or in the middle
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  Speaker 1: of the road as the cars are going past, and
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  Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, we need to, but we've never actually
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  Speaker 1: initiated it. It's always the spontaneous, random chat.
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  Speaker 3: And that's the challenge. If we don't actually initiate a
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  Speaker 3: plan of action, then these friendships that could actually be
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  Speaker 3: the bee's knees and light up our world continue to
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  Speaker 3: be accidental catch ups, all.
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  Speaker 1: Right, So don't wait to initiate is better than aggressive friendship.
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  Speaker 1: Let me share an example of this, though, because it
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  Speaker 1: doesn't work, and this goes back to your being willing
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  Speaker 1: to be uncomfortable. We have planned a surf trip for
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  Speaker 1: next April. Right, we're a year in advance because we're
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  Speaker 1: having our quarterly getaways and we're discussing when we're going
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  Speaker 1: and where we're going on that sort of thing. And
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  Speaker 1: you're going to come with me on this surf trip.
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  Speaker 1: It's to one of a place in Indonesia. And I
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  Speaker 1: sent out an invitation to twenty of my friends who surf.
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  Speaker 1: That's a lot of invitations. And I said, Kylie and
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  Speaker 1: I are going in April to this place. Here are
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  Speaker 1: the details, here are the dates. There's no expectation we
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  Speaker 1: understand that you've got other things to spend your money on,
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  Speaker 1: and this is maybe maybe it is, maybe it isn't
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  Speaker 1: your kind of thing, but we would love to spend
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  Speaker 1: some time with you, if you'd like to join us.
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  Speaker 1: The surf retreat can only handle I think about eight couples.
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  Speaker 1: It's a fairly small retreat. But all twenty of them
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  Speaker 1: came back to me. Actually several of them didn't come
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  Speaker 1: back to me at all, but pretty much all twenty
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  Speaker 1: of them came back and said, I can't make it.
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  Speaker 1: Got something else planned, doesn't fit within the budget. My
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  Speaker 1: surf trip next year is to blah blah. Right, So
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  Speaker 1: I got rejected by twenty people, but I didn't wait.
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  Speaker 2: I initiated.
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  Speaker 1: And then while I was having a random conversation with
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  Speaker 1: an acquaintance, somebody that I definitely have not spent fifty
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  Speaker 1: hours with, but somebody that i'd love to spend more
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  Speaker 1: time with, I said to him, Hey, Aunt, you really
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  Speaker 1: like surfing, don't you.
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  Speaker 2: He lives in Victoria.
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  Speaker 1: He's not even close to us, and we barely see
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  Speaker 1: each other, and in fact, I don't think i've seen
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  Speaker 1: him for three or four years. And I said, Kylie,
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  Speaker 1: and I are going to go away to this place.
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  Speaker 1: We're going to go on this trip. And he said,
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  Speaker 1: I've got a mate who's been there, he raves about it.
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  Speaker 1: I said, well, here are our dates. If you're keen,
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  Speaker 1: we'd love to have you come along. So he's now
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  Speaker 1: having a legitimate conversation with his wife about whether or
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: not that would work because he wants to come along.
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  Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, this relationship that I've always
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  Speaker 1: hoped to see germinate and really build into something.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe it will.
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  Speaker 1: Because if you spend a week on a SURFA treat
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  Speaker 1: with another person, you're going to get your fifty hours,
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  Speaker 1: probably one hundred hours maybe more, and then you build
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  Speaker 1: a relationship, then you're that person who you catch up
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  Speaker 1: more regularly, you have those conversations more frequently, and it
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  Speaker 1: just feels so good.
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  Speaker 3: It's all about shared experiences, it's about building that folio
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  Speaker 3: of time together, right, And the thing that stands out
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  Speaker 3: to me is the importance of face to face connection.
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  Speaker 3: We can have all of the likes and comments on
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  Speaker 3: our Insta page.
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  Speaker 2: And sending the meme to somebody.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, they are not going to have the impact on
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  Speaker 3: long term, strong relationships that a face to face conversation
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  Speaker 3: will have and you can have that face to face
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  Speaker 3: conversation once you're in a really good relationship once every year.
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  Speaker 3: It's not like you have to be in each other's
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  Speaker 3: pocket every day to have strong connections, but face to
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  Speaker 3: face will outrun any other form of communication every day
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  Speaker 3: of the week.
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  Speaker 2: So they're my two big ideas.
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  Speaker 1: Number one, we want to not wait initiate, and number two,
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  Speaker 1: you've got to find a way to spend the hours.
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  Speaker 1: You've got to find a time to get side by
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  Speaker 1: side or face to face consistently, not all at once,
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  Speaker 1: but over a period of days and weeks and months,
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  Speaker 1: so that the relationship will build. It doesn't happen online.
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  Speaker 1: It doesn't happen if you're so busy that you can't
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: make it happen. And if you're sitting at tennis and
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  Speaker 1: the kids are whacking balls across the net at each other,
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  Speaker 1: and there's another parent who is three meters away from
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  Speaker 1: you at the next bench or the next table, and
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  Speaker 1: you're both staring at your phone, put the phone in.
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  Speaker 2: And say, hey, it looks like our kids are doing
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  Speaker 2: really well with the tennis. Get the conversation going.
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  Speaker 3: Can I share a quick experience before we close up.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it.
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  Speaker 3: So a handful of years ago, I was in a really,
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  Speaker 3: really dark place. I had probably spent a year in
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  Speaker 3: emotional agony, I'm going to use those words, and I
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: hadn't spent any time connecting with anyone. And I woke
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: up one morning and just realized it that I didn't
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  Speaker 3: want to be that person anymore. But I felt so
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  Speaker 3: lost in having any kind of connection with people because
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: of my circumstances for that twelve months. And so I
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: looked around my community and there were a handful of
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  Speaker 3: women that I had admired from a distance that I
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  Speaker 3: just thought were absolutely stellar people and I would love
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  Speaker 3: to have them in my circle of friendship. But up
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  Speaker 3: until that point, I hadn't been in a position to
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: reach out. So I made this grand gesture and I said, Hey,
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  Speaker 3: I've had a really crappy year and I would love
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: to go out and spend some time with good women.
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  Speaker 3: I'm wondering if you'd like to come and spend some
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  Speaker 3: time with me. All of those women said yes, as.
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  Speaker 2: They probably all said, and I've had a pretty rough
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  Speaker 2: year too.
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  Speaker 3: And they did, Yeah, really they did. And we went
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  Speaker 3: out that first night, and I remember just feeling like
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  Speaker 3: the weight of the world had been lifted because there
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  Speaker 3: were other women who, for their own reasons, had had
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: a really crappy year and were actually really excited that
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: somebody had reached out and said, hey, let's just get together.
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  Speaker 3: And those friendships carried me through some really really challenging
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: times and just were so important in that stage of
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: my life. And I'm so grateful for that. But it
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: took me reaching out because none of those women would
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: have initiated either.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: All Right, we hope that these ideas will spontaneously create
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: a whole lot less loneliness and a whole lot more
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: life meaning and relationship for you in your day to day.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Bridge Media, with additional assistance from Mim Hammonds.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: If you'd like more.
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  Speaker 1: Info to make your family happier, or to get info
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  Speaker 1: strong young men from the inside out, pre order my
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  Speaker 1: at Happy Families dot com dot au.