Latest / The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook / Motherhood Without the Mask: Identity, Boundaries & Postpartum Truths with Marissa Zwetow

Transcript

Motherhood Without the Mask: Identity, Boundaries & Postpartum Truths with Marissa Zwetow · The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook

• 0:00
  Hello, Melissa Crick here at The Field Podcast.
• 0:03
  Welcome to today's episode, Motherhood without the mask,
• 0:08
  Identity, boundaries and Postpartum Truths with Marissa's
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  widow. Here are the ways to engage with
• 0:15
  this really insightful, important conversation.
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  What are your expert expectations for yourself?
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  What are society's expectations for you?
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  Is there overlap or are there some expectations you thought
• 0:33
  were your own but turned about to be somebody else's?
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  Think about what you want out of your life and what you expect
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  for yourself without listening and allowing influence to what
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  the outside voices watch. Such an important part of our
• 0:50
  journey here. We hope this gives you some
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  really thoughtful ways to engage with today's episode.
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  Motherhood without the mask. Identity, boundaries, and
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  postpartum truths with Marissa's widow.
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  Thanks so much for being with us.
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  Hello and welcome back to the Field Podcast.
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  This week I'm your host, Melissa Crook.
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  I'm here today with a friend that if you've been following
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  our panels at all or a little bit our radio show in 2024, you
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  have heard from this friend Marissa's Guido.
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  And I get to bring her to the podcast site now and really get
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  to know her journey through our talking points.
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  And I love this part because it allows me to introduce our guest
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  and these women in multiple facets where you get to hear
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  about them as people and how it, this, their journey and their
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  story ties to the work that they are so passionately connected to
• 2:01
  currently. And that is definitely the case
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  with Marissa. She describes herself as
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  passionate, stubborn, persistent, silly, focused, and
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  empathetic. Marissa Zwedo, Welcome to the
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  Field podcast. Thank you so much.
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  I'm so excited to be back here. I am too.
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  I'm so happy to have you. You've got such important
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  resources today. Again, we're going to be talking
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  about those areas in Women's Health today in Marissa's story
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  that don't get enough of our attention.
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  And when they do get our attention, it's too linear.
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  It's too too focused on one thing instead of the nuance that
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  exist within this. And you're going to know what
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  I'm talking about as we get into it.
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  But to start this, Marissa, talk to me about prioritizing
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  self-care in your life and what that has looked like for you
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  through this journey. Oh, gosh, yeah.
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  I mean, I, you know, my story is all about motherhood and
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  particularly even the, the transition in the motherhood
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  postpartum. And I will just say my self-care
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  just went out the window. And I, I see that with so many
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  moms that I work with to the point where they've lost
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  themselves, they don't even know what self-care even looks like
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  anymore. What makes them happy?
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  So for me, that journey with self-care has been allowing to
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  put myself 1st and it's OK, which is so hard as a mom.
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  I, I love the, the saying self-care is not selfish.
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  You're not, it's actually selfless.
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  And so that's been so much of the journey is realizing that my
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  daughter and my family deserves a happy Marissa, a happy mom, a
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  happy wife, and putting that as the highest priority.
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  And of course, it's all about self-care and figuring out what
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  makes me happy and figuring out how to carve the time for that.
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  Way more challenging than I could have ever imagined after
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  becoming a mother. Yeah.
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  And these are the things, and you and I have talked about this
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  before. These are the things they don't
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  tell you. We tend to paint this very
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  flowery rainbows and unicorns picture of becoming a mother.
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  And we're afraid to talk about the things that are hard because
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  we don't want to be judged as Oh my gosh, what's wrong with her
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  or whatever. And it's like, I am so happy and
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  thrilled and I know how privileged and like I am to have
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  this child. And also this transition is so
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  much more difficult. And if you give the women the
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  information upfront beforehand, they can properly prepare.
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  It does. So it doesn't go down this road.
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  They can prepare and understand not just the blood of emotions
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  that we talk about with the more traditional versions of
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  postpartum depression, which tends to be what everybody jumps
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  to. And that is a very important
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  diagnosis to get right in and within itself.
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  But also not everything falls into that.
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  And you, your, your, your work in the world of therapy
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  yourself. This is your profession.
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  So you are very well versed in what a clinical diagnosis of
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  something looks like versus a very just this is hard and no
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  one told me. And now as a result of how hard
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  and I'm prepared, I feel for this transition and how it was
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  going to turn my world upside down, not having prepared in
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  advance for their support and resources and help I would need.
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  Now I am feeling exhausted and anxious and depressed.
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  Not because of all the hormones swimming all those those those
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  may add to it, because of the lack of information I was given
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  and because we've been told as women not to talk about that in
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  that way if there's a big stigma around it.
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  And it is so true, we can both love our children fiercely and
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  be thrilled they're here and be exhausted and annoyed and
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  frustrated with how hard it is to make this transition into a
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  new season. Both can be true at the same
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  time. Yeah, yeah, there's gosh,
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  there's so many things you said that I'm like, Oh my gosh, yes,
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  yeah. So as a, as a licensed mental
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  health therapist, in some ways it feels a little sticky, you
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  know, like I'm not, I'm not betraying my training and I'm
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  probably not the only therapist that fights back on some of
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  these diagnosis. But yeah, there is definitely an
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  element of wait a minute, wait a minute, you're telling me that I
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  have a mental illness because I'm struggling and not enjoying
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  motherhood and having these feelings of wanting to run away.
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  And and I just realized that can't be that can't be the full
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  conversation. I know, Yeah, I know there are
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  these real diagnosis, but that's just not always the case.
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  We need that broaden that narrative, broaden that
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  conversation to include a normal reaction to so many things that
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  that can go wrong. I know there's another clinician
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  that I'm aware of that had studied grief and, and was a
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  specialist for so long. And then it wasn't until grief
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  knocked on his front door that he went back and went, Oh my
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  gosh, I, I've been going about this wrong.
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  And, and he almost felt like I need to apologize to all my
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  clients and there is a diagnosis, prolonged grief.
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  And he thought that that is such BS.
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  You know, it's like it implies that there's a normal way to
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  grieve. And, and I'm kind of doing the
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  same thing that I don't think that I don't think it's abnormal
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  to even have the most taboo with feelings like hating motherhood
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  or feeling regret. Of course no one wants to have
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  those feelings. And of course I'm an advocate
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  for self-care and support, but I, I just don't think we need
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  that abnormal label. I I I go overboard by validating
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  and and saying oh I hear you. Me too well.
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  When you put abnormal in front of anything, you just adds to
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  the stigma and let and then it makes people feel like they're
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  abnormal to bring it up and it doesn't invite people into the
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  conversation. I think it drives them away from
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  the conversation because they don't want to fall into that
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  abnormal category. And you know, and I want to come
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  back to the grief piece in a minute.
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  I because that's a very important component here.
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  But before we do that, talk to me about confidently setting
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  boundaries. You had to get to a point where
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  you had to like, I've got to make a shift here.
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  I've got to do something to get myself back to feeling like
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  myself, get myself in alignment and get myself to a space where
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  I can really move into enjoying being a mother to this child
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  where but that. But so that's I'm going to have
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  to set some boundaries around my time around my spaces, around
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  who I give it to. And also too, I think
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  conversations that are allowed in and out of your spaces
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  because again, if you're not coming out singing kumbaya all
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  the time with this new baby, people tend to get very judgy
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  instead of just like, OK, A, you know, have you been a mom
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  before? B, It's different for everyone.
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  Everyone has a different experience.
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  And C, you know, how can you be supportive here?
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  You know, if you're seeing somebody struggling, how can you
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  show up to support them instead of just having these judgments?
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  But so talk to me about the boundaries piece.
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  Yeah, for sure. I I think that this is so common
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  in motherhood that independent, successful, even feminism, women
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  all of a sudden find themselves in these typical gender roles.
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  I, I certainly did and, and it does, it becomes much harder to
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  have those boundaries and to carve out self-care.
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  I, I went into motherhood pretty, I don't want to say
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  naive, but that's the best word I have.
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  And, you know, and what that experience would feel like and
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  look like and, and then having to navigate with my husband,
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  like what, how is this? How is this going to look?
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  Why am I always the first responder to change the diaper
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  to do this or that? Great.
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  So I think it is, it is an exploration of, of gender roles
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  because it, it, it does it, it, it explodes in every household
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  of like, wait a minute. So exploring that.
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  And, and all of that is to say, when I work with other other
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  moms and other women, it really is a journey of let's talk about
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  your husband, well, your partner, let's talk about how
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  they can help. And if not for whatever reason,
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  then then it's still, it's OK. Who can you hire?
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  You know, who can you call? How can you talk about that time
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  one way or another? And of course, as you know,
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  it's, it's way more challenging than it was pre children, right?
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  You can just get up and go and now you've got to negotiate, you
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  know, child care. But yeah, it's just as important
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  whether whether it is leaning into your partner, whether it is
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  hiring or or calling on a friend or family.
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  And and carving out that time and again for me, becoming a
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  happy mom, happy Marissa became the highest priority.
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  And that shifted things that became much easier to say.
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  I need that time like medicine, right?
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  If we knew we'd absolutely to heal, we we wouldn't hesitate.
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  And so that's kind of how how it got prioritized like, oh, this
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  is like medicine. For me to feel.
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  Balanced. Yeah.
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  And to get out of the depression that I, that I did, I did fall
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  into, that's the that's the, that's the trickiness of it,
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  too. I did become depressed.
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  But I know how I got there. And it wasn't mental illness.
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  It wasn't. It was circumstantial.
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  And we know, we know that people can become depressed because of
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  their environment, but we just don't talk about it like that.
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  When it comes to motherhood, that's that's taboo.
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  That's. Shameful.
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  We would never say that motherhood causes depression.
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  And I'm like, yes, I, I absolutely think it can cause
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  depression. I think we can prevent it.
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  But I think to prevent it, we've got to start naming it and
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  identifying it. That's just it.
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  We cannot, you cannot address anything that you're not willing
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  to name and have a conversation about.
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  And that's what, you know, I mentioned earlier about getting
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  in front of these things, having honest conversations with women,
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  you know, when they get pregnant.
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  Like you may not see this coming.
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  You may not think you're going to fall into this, but just in
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  case, there's a plethora of things that can exist and happen
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  and I we want you to have this information now so you can
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  prepare properly. If you don't need it, great, but
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  you're going to feel part of the reason you might not need it is
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  because you feel prepared in the 1st place.
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  You don't get that overwhelmed spot because you had the
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  information upfront and you planned for it.
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  You knew what friend could show up for you on Fridays so that
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  you could take a shower or maybe a nap.
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  You. Knew if your mother or
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  mother-in-law could come in that space you budgeted, if you
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  decided you needed to hire somebody to come in a couple
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  times a week, whatever the case may be.
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  So let's take the stigma off it. Let's call it what it is and
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  give women these resources and language and welcoming without
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  stigma and judgement that they need out front.
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  Let's get ahead of this. Let's get upriver and get ahead
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  of this instead of just always being in reactive mode.
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  That starts with a willingness to be like, listen.
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  This is the deal. And it's OK and it doesn't make
• 14:23
  you bad or evil or a bad mom or a bad partner or a bad woman or
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  whatever. Failure, all the ridiculous
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  things that. And because there are emotions
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  flooding through US afterwards, you know, and, and so balancing
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  all of that too, and having that information up front gives you a
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  resource to go back to, to help you get level set.
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  Oh, I remember they told me this, they said this might
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  happen. They said this, you know, all of
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  that, but it starts with these conversations and you're doing
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  the work that is missing in so many of these conversations.
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  And it's so important, which leads to let's get back to that,
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  taking care of our emotional health, mental health, physical
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  health. We know it's all tied together.
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  Grief is a part of that. And when you say grief people,
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  that's another word people are afraid to use when it they talk
• 15:10
  about becoming a mom. And it's like it's OK to grieve
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  the freedom you used to have to go to that, you know, Sunday
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  brunch with your girlfriends. It's OK to grieve that.
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  Oh my gosh, I got to allow another hour on my commute time
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  on the front end and back end to make sure I can get to the
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  daycare or care situation for my kid, not to mention budget for
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  that. It's OK that I grieve that those
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  sleeping in mornings on Saturday or Sunday just can't be anymore.
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  We can't have that quiet time in bed with our partner that maybe
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  that used to be where we connected for the week, but
• 15:46
  that's not available right now. So where do we replace that?
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  It's OK to do that. The grief, we, we poo poo that.
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  And then if we stop the grief, if you think it's not going to
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  come back later, it's going to come back later in not such an
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  attractive fashion. So I don't want to just address
• 16:03
  the grief piece that, but it fits so well into this piece of
• 16:07
  that mental, emotional, physical health connection.
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  So talk to me about all of those things.
• 16:13
  Yeah, You know, as you were talking, you you've talked a lot
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  about being prepared and I almost think I mean, yes, what
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  you're saying. Yes.
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  Oh my gosh, I grieved my life, my freedoms, all of that.
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  But, but I also think what you're touching on is that I
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  think we can get ahead of it by setting realistic expectations
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  and talking about the being more prepared.
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  I'm not saying, I think that's why I do use the word naive.
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  I don't, I don't want to be hard on myself, but I, I think I got
• 16:45
  caught up in the, the glamorization of motherhood.
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  I I all the things you just spelled out, I don't think I
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  really grasped. And it's not it's not like I
• 16:57
  want to go on this rant about, hey, you know, motherhood socks
• 17:02
  and here's all the things you're going to have to sacrifice.
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  But it's just as you said, it's just painting a more realistic
• 17:08
  picture. And I know for me, when I have
• 17:15
  at least a good attempt at a realistic expectation, I don't
• 17:19
  have the grief as as much or or at all.
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  You know, I know, I know we can't predict every scenario,
• 17:29
  but but if you would ask me my picture of motherhood when I was
• 17:32
  pregnant versus after, Oh my gosh, you know, night and day.
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  So I think it is about being, having more messaging out there
• 17:44
  that it isn't all unicorns, rainbows and butterflies.
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  And it's OK for any, any woman or family that decides it's not
• 17:51
  for them. I mean, that's part of my
• 17:52
  messaging too, when my eyes are open.
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  And yeah, just just being more open and honest about what it is
• 18:03
  to to embark on motherhood and and maybe spare grief.
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  And I'm also very solution focused too.
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  I really am. I, I think that there are ways
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  to still have that Sunday brunch and you know, the sleeping in
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  me, my husband would have to, we we would rotate at least on the
• 18:23
  weekend, Saturday and Sunday. So you're right, it's not, I'm
• 18:25
  not going to have that time with my husband that we're just
• 18:28
  sleeping in, but at least I'm sleeping in by myself.
• 18:31
  My husband's husband's getting up and doing that.
• 18:35
  But I definitely love to brainstorm with my clients and
• 18:37
  think, OK, how can we get you back some of those things that
• 18:40
  you missed? Yeah, yeah.
• 18:43
  I think for me, the big part of it was I refused to just stop
• 18:47
  going and attending the things that had always been a part of
• 18:49
  my life. There were things that I was
• 18:51
  just like, you know what, she's coming with me and she'll be
• 18:54
  fine and she's all tucked away. I'm right here with her and I
• 18:59
  just, you know, instead of sitting at home wishing I was
• 19:02
  there and bemoaning the fact that I wasn't getting to enjoy
• 19:05
  this thing that I loved used for, you know, my husband worked
• 19:09
  in college athletics at the time.
• 19:11
  And so he was especially, you know, during football and
• 19:13
  basketball season it he was gone a lot.
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  He would go to the games. We were big.
• 19:18
  We loved going to the games. It was a big event within an
• 19:21
  event. A lot of the people we knew and
• 19:23
  our friends were there. And so I, she was at her first
• 19:27
  college football game when she was 11 days old.
• 19:29
  And the amount of side I I got from people, I'm like, she's
• 19:33
  fine. Like they had to.
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  His staff had set me up in a great spot that was very
• 19:38
  comfortable. It wasn't noisy.
• 19:41
  I could write, go into the, you know, there was a room I could
• 19:44
  take in a nurser when it was time, I could pop right back out
• 19:47
  and watch the game. She had everything she needed.
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  It was totally and I and I, and it allowed me and I had to
• 19:54
  adjust. There was a old bag I had to
• 19:56
  bring. I had to adjust.
• 19:57
  I experienced it differently, but I still got to experience
• 20:00
  it. And so I think that's, you know,
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  you touched on that too, is like finding those ways, those things
• 20:05
  that are important to you that you can experience.
• 20:07
  It's just in a different way. But you don't have to give up
• 20:09
  everything. So I think there's this false
• 20:11
  narrative. You have to give up everything.
• 20:13
  No, you just have to adjust and figure out how it fits into your
• 20:16
  life now. And it might be a little take a
• 20:18
  little more preparation in advance, but that it it beats
• 20:22
  you just sitting at home and not and closing yourself in and
• 20:25
  feeling like you can't do anything either.
• 20:27
  So I yeah, we're just bouncing out.
• 20:29
  I think it feels that way too sometimes.
• 20:32
  Yeah, especially, especially in the beginning.
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  I'm impressed. I'm impressed that you have that
• 20:37
  level of confidence and, you know, assurance.
• 20:40
  Yeah, yeah. And that was 30 years ago.
• 20:43
  That was really, I was out. I was like, are you outside of
• 20:48
  your mind? And I'm like, I'll be outside of
• 20:51
  my mind if I stay home all the time.
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  It you know. For sure, yeah.
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  You know, and I'm like she's, you know, cuz I was like, I'm
• 20:57
  not in close tight spaces where she's going to be exposed to a
• 21:00
  bunch of germs. Like I was very aware, but also
• 21:04
  there's a wave that I can do this.
• 21:05
  So yeah, I mean, and I think that's important.
• 21:07
  That helped in to it. She's 30 year old.
• 21:10
  She can fall asleep anywhere to this day.
• 21:13
  She's so flexible in terms of that.
• 21:16
  And and all three of them are they and they got to have some
• 21:19
  great experiences and be part of some really fun memories with my
• 21:22
  husband and I because we did include them in these things.
• 21:27
  So yeah, I think it's like, don't be so married to your to
• 21:30
  the nap schedule and the feeding schedule that you don't live
• 21:33
  your life like there's you can do both and everybody benefits
• 21:38
  from that. So.
• 21:39
  Yeah. That's my piece on that, and
• 21:42
  what it does for your mental and emotional health is really,
• 21:44
  really important. For sure.
• 21:48
  All right, how you've done this beautifully, how we can support
• 21:52
  ourselves and other women in living unapologetically.
• 21:57
  You found your way through this and then you realized, hold on a
• 22:01
  minute, there is nobody helping women in this space.
• 22:05
  So you do what so many women do, which is what I love about
• 22:09
  women. You become the solution and and
• 22:13
  so you've done that. So talk to me about that
• 22:15
  transition from figuring it out and how it it, and then how you
• 22:20
  could then show up for other women and support them through
• 22:24
  it. Oh gosh, yeah, for sure.
• 22:27
  I mean, I was, I was already a licensed mental health
• 22:29
  therapist, so that was already in the, in the works.
• 22:32
  And, and I, I think for me, I was in this, this is so common
• 22:38
  to after I'd had my daughter, money was so tight.
• 22:42
  You know, there's so many changes happening.
• 22:44
  And again, I see like, you know, we've just gotten a new home and
• 22:48
  a new mortgage and all the things.
• 22:51
  So I'm, I'm, I'm in a whirlwind just with my mental health as it
• 22:55
  is, but the idea of trying to find a therapist and going
• 22:58
  through insurance, I, I couldn't, I didn't, I couldn't
• 23:04
  find a specialist. And I see this a lot,
• 23:06
  unfortunately. And so I'm meeting with a, a
• 23:08
  woman who I just like, I'm just listening to her.
• 23:14
  And I'm like, you don't, you don't get this at all.
• 23:16
  Like you don't, you're too far removed.
• 23:18
  Or so I realized that postpartum needs not, not that I'm the
• 23:23
  first one to realize this, that it needs to be specialized.
• 23:27
  That's why it is specialized. Right.
• 23:30
  And I, I want to be the type of therapist who validates and
• 23:37
  really sees the woman in front of me.
• 23:39
  You know, it's not to say that I'm saying, oh, postpartum
• 23:42
  depression or postpartum anxiety isn't real.
• 23:44
  Of course it is. But to see all that's on her
• 23:47
  plate or all that she's going through.
• 23:50
  So it's kind of a no brainer for me once I got better, you know,
• 23:55
  like, oh, this is something I need to specialize in.
• 23:58
  I need to, I need to start doing this.
• 23:59
  And then on top of that, trying to get this message out there
• 24:03
  that was very different than just postpartum or maternal
• 24:07
  mental health. It was, wait a minute,
• 24:10
  something's missing in this conversation.
• 24:12
  This, you know, like, like we just touched on.
• 24:18
  Yeah. And again, it gets tricky, but,
• 24:20
  but yeah, I, I want to be the voice that that says it's OK to
• 24:23
  say it's really hard or it's OK to say that you're not enjoying
• 24:28
  it because I didn't, I didn't enjoy it.
• 24:29
  I didn't have a bond with my daughter.
• 24:31
  I, I was feeling regret. I really was.
• 24:33
  And I know that's common now and does happen, but we want to
• 24:37
  attach a diagnosis to that. Oh, she might have a part of
• 24:40
  depression. Like not, not at the beginning,
• 24:43
  not really. Like, no, I'm telling you, I
• 24:46
  think this, this sucks. Of course.
• 24:48
  Where's that validation? And unfortunately, it did.
• 24:52
  It did lead to depression. I don't think it had to.
• 24:54
  If I'd had the right book or the right therapist for the right
• 24:58
  resources to help me know that I'm OK for feeling this way and
• 25:03
  that there is a solution, that we can start to move forward,
• 25:05
  That I did eventually get there, but it took way too long, much
• 25:08
  longer. And I think it's really
• 25:10
  important, like the listening piece, like, don't get so
• 25:13
  married to what you know clinically that you aren't
• 25:17
  listening to what women are telling you and really
• 25:21
  addressing meeting them where they are instead of just trying
• 25:24
  to jump to a diagnosis. And also be very careful of the
• 25:28
  language you use. I mean, some of the language
• 25:30
  that was used with you. And one word's coming to mind,
• 25:33
  and I think you know what I'm talking about.
• 25:35
  Yeah, I'm just blown away that someone, especially someone a
• 25:41
  professional, would use that word with you.
• 25:43
  So talk. Tell that story because that.
• 25:45
  Is. And it's part of the problem and
• 25:49
  it's one of the, I, I want, let's talk about this.
• 25:51
  I want to address this because the fact that they said that to
• 25:54
  you was just like, Oh my gosh, no, she's not.
• 25:57
  But you might send her down a really bad path by making her
• 26:01
  feel that way. Yeah, and and I have to, I have
• 26:06
  to, I'll, I'll go backwards, but but I'm so glad that she said
• 26:10
  the asinine thing that she said because that that catapulted me.
• 26:14
  OK, so I'm, I'm healed, I'm better.
• 26:17
  I'm better ish, mostly better. And I'm at a training or
• 26:21
  therapist for the postcardum space and the causes, as we all
• 26:29
  love, we all love to know the causes for things you know, the
• 26:31
  causes for, you know, the postpartum depression or or
• 26:35
  postpartum mood disorder is being listed.
• 26:38
  The usual causes I had always heard, you know, hormonal
• 26:40
  changes. And yes, that's the thing and
• 26:43
  lack of maybe lack of support, history of depression, anxiety,
• 26:49
  a lot of changes going on. I'm sure sleep depression, sleep
• 26:53
  deprivation was part of that too, but but I didn't hear what
• 26:56
  that that didn't satisfying me. So I raised my hand.
• 27:00
  I'm like, OK, what about a mom who really is struggling to find
• 27:04
  joy in motherhood, alluding to how hard it is?
• 27:07
  And she said that sounds pathological to me.
• 27:11
  Like when I hear a woman say she doesn't want to be a mother, it
• 27:15
  sounds unnatural. And all I could see, well, this
• 27:19
  was in hindsight, But when I went to dinner with some peers,
• 27:22
  like either like our jaws drop. I'm like, I get that.
• 27:25
  I totally get that and it really saves me at the time, I think
• 27:32
  because I was still susceptible to it.
• 27:35
  I was sure open like like, oh, is that is that still what's
• 27:41
  going on? And and these comments that
• 27:44
  came, it got me thinking it got my wheels turning.
• 27:47
  So it helped. It helped so much.
• 27:49
  I felt like it's. Burned you on.
• 27:52
  It did. It did.
• 27:53
  So I thought, I thought, huh, OK, I don't think that's it.
• 27:58
  I don't think it's logical. I think it is really hard.
• 28:01
  I think it is hard and we need to start talking about it.
• 28:03
  But you know, she herself, this trainer, this professional
• 28:10
  hadn't gone through it herself. And I I think I'm always a
• 28:14
  little leery of someone who, you know, I think of, I mean,
• 28:20
  there's so many examples to get, but maybe like a fitness trainer
• 28:22
  who's never struggled with weight or never had, they don't
• 28:26
  have a story. Yeah, I don't do as well versus
• 28:30
  someone who said, Oh my gosh, I completely turned my health
• 28:33
  around or this is how I got from here to here in any, in any
• 28:38
  profession. And right.
• 28:40
  Especially when they're mentoring us.
• 28:42
  Yeah, if you're, you better have some credibility in your life
• 28:45
  experience if you're going to be throwing around phrases and
• 28:49
  things like that. So, yeah.
• 28:50
  But I, I think it's important to talk about that because again,
• 28:55
  as a society, we are so guilty of putting words and judgments
• 28:59
  behind things that we have no idea about, that we have not
• 29:03
  walked out ourselves and we just threw these things out.
• 29:06
  And that's it's, it's inappropriate, it's
• 29:09
  irresponsible, and it's it contributes to, again, these
• 29:14
  stigmas and these fears and keeps conversations closed down
• 29:18
  that need to be open and welcoming and safe for women to
• 29:21
  show up into so we can have answers and support rather than
• 29:27
  shame and judgment from people who haven't even walked down
• 29:31
  that path, especially even more so, so, yeah.
• 29:34
  So good. OK.
• 29:35
  And also from women who didn't have that experience doesn't
• 29:39
  mean somebody else won't. I mean, I think that's another.
• 29:42
  Thing too OK. Let's say you have the rainbows
• 29:44
  and butterflies. Great.
• 29:47
  It's not an automatic that everybody else will.
• 29:49
  And if they don't have the same experience as you, doesn't mean
• 29:52
  there's anything wrong with that.
• 29:54
  It's just a different experience.
• 29:56
  So I think we have to be very careful too and, and show and
• 29:58
  make sure we're showing up and listening and, and, and being
• 30:02
  opened up the nuance that goes on within this.
• 30:05
  OK. And this is an important part of
• 30:08
  what you how you interact in this world now too, is the
• 30:12
  importance of coming back to your why and your values and
• 30:16
  everything you do. This became a very important
• 30:20
  part of your story of value of yours to show up supporting
• 30:24
  women. Talk to me about that transition
• 30:27
  with, you know, before versus after and how the why and values
• 30:30
  piece kind of played a role in this road that you went down.
• 30:36
  Yeah, you mean you mean like the before before.
• 30:41
  Like, yeah, what you're about exactly.
• 30:43
  Yeah. Like the shift there, like you
• 30:45
  were always supportive, but you just learned so much out of your
• 30:48
  own experience. I would imagine there might have
• 30:50
  been a little bit of a shift in the emphasis of what a value
• 30:54
  might have been. Yeah, I mean, I would have never
• 31:02
  imagined landing where I where I did.
• 31:05
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:08
  You're making me think, trying to.
• 31:12
  I think it just. I'm not.
• 31:14
  I don't. Oh my gosh, you're making me
• 31:16
  think. I don't even know.
• 31:21
  I'm like values to me, you know, that's, you know, it goes deep
• 31:26
  and I think it just, it was just my own personal experience and
• 31:32
  and realizing what was missing in that conversation.
• 31:37
  If I'm understanding you right, it's like I couldn't, I couldn't
• 31:41
  deny. I couldn't deny and it took
• 31:45
  years. It took years of me chewing on
• 31:48
  it and thinking what's missing that I knew something was
• 31:52
  missing and I and I couldn't quite identify it.
• 31:56
  And I'm sure that's how all these movements start, you know,
• 32:02
  But something, something's missing.
• 32:03
  Something isn't sitting right. And it takes takes, I won't say
• 32:09
  a village, but you know, it takes a lot of people to say
• 32:12
  you're right. Yeah, something, something is
• 32:15
  missing from that. Yeah, 'cause I don't know.
• 32:19
  Well, and I think too, just to, you know, to the why and the
• 32:22
  values piece for your, you know, the being the therapist wanting
• 32:24
  to show up as a support, provide those resources that was always
• 32:28
  present, this whole other road and, and the shift that you made
• 32:33
  to this. Like, there's a need here.
• 32:34
  And I, I want to point to your persistence, you know, a
• 32:38
  character trait that you we introduced you by earlier that
• 32:41
  persistence. Talk to me about, you know, you
• 32:43
  knew something was missing. When did when was did you have
• 32:47
  like an epiphany moment was like, wait a minute, I think
• 32:51
  I've gotten to where I'm looking for and how I can now help
• 32:56
  myself and others like this, this nuanced piece like, because
• 33:00
  you kept following like, Nope, Nope.
• 33:02
  They haven't hit it. They haven't hit it.
• 33:04
  And you became your own. You became the solution to to
• 33:08
  your own challenge and so many. Other yeah, I never, when I was
• 33:14
  taking trainings and immersing myself in postpartum depression,
• 33:21
  I never heard a lot of conversation about not enjoying
• 33:26
  it. And I and I knew that was taboo.
• 33:29
  I knew it, but I, I really was surprised there wasn't more
• 33:33
  conversation about it. Like, I full on wanted a chapter
• 33:38
  in the books that I was reading, like a full chapter talking
• 33:41
  about. And by the way, it's really hard
• 33:44
  and we're going to spend a whole chapter talking about it.
• 33:48
  Never found that chapter and and even like in looking at the
• 33:51
  causes, it was kind of interesting that no professional
• 33:57
  one of the causes is that it's incredibly hard.
• 34:03
  I know, like, it's maybe it's implied, but I think the joy
• 34:08
  factor and the purpose far outweighs, far outweighs how
• 34:16
  hard it is, right. Like, like, like it's such a, a
• 34:19
  miracle. It's such a gift.
• 34:20
  It's a blessing. And I just didn't feel those
• 34:24
  things. I just didn't.
• 34:25
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 34:27
  So that was interesting. And then it left me.
• 34:30
  It left me with two choices, right?
• 34:31
  These are my 2 choices. I have a mental illness, which,
• 34:34
  you know, was fine. I don't want to add that the
• 34:36
  stigma and, and, and for many years, I, I, I thought, OK, I, I
• 34:42
  fell victim to this mental illness, or if not that, then
• 34:47
  I'm a monster, right? Those are my 2 choices.
• 34:51
  Yeah, and. With no in new wants of the in
• 34:54
  between of the actual. Truth of the thing, yeah.
• 34:57
  So that's what was missing is we need more choices.
• 35:01
  We need more options. Yeah.
• 35:04
  I don't. I don't believe it started out
• 35:06
  as this onset of a mental illness.
• 35:09
  And I think it's real. I really do.
• 35:11
  I'm not. Again, I'm not trying to add to
• 35:13
  stigma. I'm just trying to add more
• 35:14
  options. I know I'm not a monster.
• 35:18
  And so maybe I'm having a normal reaction to all these variables
• 35:24
  that that may not go right. You know, there's, I mean, how
• 35:28
  many variables are there when a baby is born?
• 35:30
  Beginning with the pregnancy? No beginning with conception
• 35:34
  like trying to conceive, right? Absolutely.
• 35:36
  Trying to conceive and then the pregnancy and then the birth and
• 35:41
  we, we haven't even gotten to postpartum, right?
• 35:43
  Those are all the variables. And then it's like
• 35:46
  breastfeeding. How's that going to go?
• 35:48
  The health of the baby, the temperament of the baby, how my
• 35:53
  relationship with the baby, my bond or lack of bond.
• 35:57
  There's so many variables. And I think we kind of count on
• 36:01
  at least I'm just making this up, but I think we, we count on
• 36:04
  at least 80% going, well, we can and this is kind of manage the
• 36:08
  20%, but what if it's reversed, right?
• 36:11
  That's how I feel. Absolutely no 100%.
• 36:14
  And I want to add to that, you know, I, I was the I've got 3
• 36:18
  beautiful grown daughters that I my that we adore and that we're
• 36:23
  so thankful for. And I will tell you, and I had
• 36:29
  one other friend. She had her girls a few years
• 36:33
  later than me. So by the time she started had
• 36:35
  her first, I had had my three. We were just running different
• 36:39
  schedule. I think ours wasn't planned to
• 36:41
  be that early. It turned out that way.
• 36:43
  It worked out, right? It was.
• 36:44
  But I was thankful because I was able to guide her through the
• 36:47
  fact when she called me crying, she's like, I hate this.
• 36:51
  I'm like, that's OK, that's OK. Because you know, and she was
• 36:55
  like 6 weeks in, daughter wasn't sleeping, was cranky, was it?
• 37:01
  He was just, she was the, you know, just was having a
• 37:04
  challenging time. She transitioned.
• 37:07
  She they were just getting ready to do a big move multiple
• 37:10
  states. I mean, it was just a lot going
• 37:12
  on and and she's like, I can save it.
• 37:15
  She's like, what's wrong with me?
• 37:16
  I'm like, there's nothing wrong with you.
• 37:17
  There's something wrong with society that we can't say these
• 37:19
  things and feel safe. I would be the first her and I
• 37:22
  had that common bond and we were able to she I was able to
• 37:25
  support her through this because I did not enjoy the baby years.
• 37:29
  Like give me to like four and five years old where they can
• 37:33
  put on their clothes and shoes and we can get outside and
• 37:36
  they've got personalities and they're talking.
• 37:38
  But the nursing I did because A it was expected and B, it was
• 37:43
  supposed to be healthy for the baby, but I didn't love it.
• 37:46
  It was B because at the time it was still very like you got a
• 37:50
  nurse where so you're not making other people feel uncomfortable
• 37:54
  when you, you know, nurse in public, whatever it is.
• 37:59
  And so it could, it felt very isolating to me that I was
• 38:03
  having to always remove myself to pump or nurse or whatever.
• 38:08
  And also to they're like, you know, they all took to it
• 38:12
  eventually, you know, you know, not too difficulty, but like
• 38:16
  when I was starting to the first time, like I, I didn't, I grew
• 38:19
  up. I was born in 1969 and then
• 38:22
  there was a lot of like all my siblings and I were bottle fed
• 38:26
  and I was made to feel like that was a selfish choice.
• 38:30
  And I will tell you, if I'd had to do over again, I might have
• 38:33
  pumped and bottle fed, but I wouldn't have done that to
• 38:35
  myself because that was very, it felt very vesselating.
• 38:39
  And and then they tell you if you're tense, your baby can feel
• 38:42
  it and they won't take to you all of these things.
• 38:45
  So all that to say, the baby, yours were my favorite.
• 38:49
  I'm like, I like my sleep. I, I, I like not having to try
• 38:54
  and figure out what they want. My husband, on the flip side, is
• 38:57
  a baby magnet. That man loves me.
• 38:59
  So it all worked out. He, I mean, at any minute it all
• 39:03
  worked out. It was great.
• 39:04
  But it's like I'm saying that out loud because I didn't feel
• 39:08
  like I could say that out loud. Like I used to like call myself
• 39:12
  the weirdo that didn't like the baby phase.
• 39:14
  I'm like, I'm not going to do that to myself anymore because
• 39:17
  that makes it sound like there's something wrong with me.
• 39:19
  And I know. So when my friend came along, my
• 39:22
  friend Kristen came along and was feeling all these things.
• 39:25
  I'm like, it's OK and I'm going to help you.
• 39:27
  Through it. And there's nothing wrong with
• 39:29
  you and this and because she was having the same experience, she
• 39:33
  had this like once they got to four and five.
• 39:35
  Oh my God, this is so much fun and this is so great and all of
• 39:39
  that. So you don't have to love to
• 39:41
  cuddle the babies and it and then I had other friends that
• 39:44
  wanted to have another baby just because they love the babies.
• 39:46
  But I'm like, remember, they don't stay babies, you know,
• 39:50
  then you got to finish raising them and that's, you know, so
• 39:53
  that's gonna be a problem too. But all of those in terms of if
• 39:56
  you want to, you know, keep raising them, not a problem that
• 39:58
  you're having those feelings. I want to clarify that, but I
• 40:01
  think it just opened. I'm so thankful that you're
• 40:03
  having this conversation because I felt very isolated, very
• 40:06
  alone, like there was something wrong with me.
• 40:10
  Because I was, I didn't love being pregnant, but I also was
• 40:13
  mindful of not talking about it because I knew people that were
• 40:16
  having a hard time getting pregnant that couldn't have
• 40:19
  babies. And so I also wanted to be
• 40:21
  mindful and respectful that I was fortunate enough.
• 40:24
  But then I had guilt. I felt guilty that I felt this
• 40:27
  way because other people, it's like there's room for all of it.
• 40:31
  I don't have to feel guilty, but I can also be kind and mindful
• 40:34
  with them of like, I'm having a really hard time.
• 40:37
  And I also understand how fortunate I am.
• 40:40
  And I know that you would take all my grief and frustration if
• 40:43
  you could be a mom and have this experience too.
• 40:46
  Let's just open up the door so there's room for all of these
• 40:49
  conversations. And, you know, and that's what
• 40:51
  the work you're doing is doing. But I think it's important to
• 40:54
  say these things out loud. Absolutely.
• 40:57
  I completely agree. Yeah, there's there's also moms
• 41:01
  that had a hard time conceiving and went through IVF and then
• 41:06
  they have the baby and they feel tremendous guilt because they're
• 41:09
  not loving it. You know that happens too.
• 41:13
  After everything they've been through, absolutely.
• 41:16
  Yeah. I mean, let's just take all of
• 41:18
  these expectations, which is this is our next one, living out
• 41:21
  of your own expectations versus others.
• 41:24
  Let's remove the expectations that culture wants to put on
• 41:28
  this scenario or situation and allow ourselves to live out of
• 41:32
  our own without judgement, with support, with nuance, with
• 41:36
  safety. But you put up against a lot of
• 41:39
  different expectations, not just in your experience, but also
• 41:41
  there in the therapy world of like finding kind of a lane for
• 41:46
  this conversation within that as well.
• 41:49
  So, so talk to me about all these different expectations
• 41:51
  that you were working out and dealing with and finding your
• 41:55
  own path through. Yeah, I, I mean, I, I had, I
• 42:00
  think society's expectations became my own expectations.
• 42:05
  Not like, not like I I really didn't, couldn't separate them
• 42:09
  until until later realizing I probably don't want another
• 42:15
  child and that that kind of was like society's expectations.
• 42:18
  And then, yeah, as a therapist, again, I know, I know I'm not
• 42:25
  alone. I know there's a there's a lot
• 42:26
  in the field that do question some of these diagnosis.
• 42:34
  So I know I'm not alone in that. But there have been times where
• 42:37
  I've heard other postpartum therapists and I cringe when I
• 42:40
  hear some of the things they're saying, you know, where it's
• 42:43
  still very clinical. Yeah.
• 42:48
  I, I mean, my, my preference is almost even just to be like a,
• 42:51
  like a coach instead of a, a therapist.
• 42:54
  But I, you know, I don't want to use my license, but I probably
• 42:56
  did more of a coaching style. Sure.
• 42:59
  Very solution focused. Yeah, yeah.
• 43:03
  Expectations everywhere for sure.
• 43:05
  And, and I think I think the place to start is just to get
• 43:08
  curious, just to get curious, right?
• 43:11
  Just to pause and get curious about what it is that you really
• 43:14
  want versus what you think society wants.
• 43:16
  And. I think.
• 43:19
  Even just a circle back, I said, I said that society's
• 43:23
  expectations become mine, became mine.
• 43:26
  And then I had an identity crisis, which I see all the time
• 43:29
  in motherhood. But that's circles back to
• 43:33
  curiosity. Like, OK, if I got to read, I
• 43:37
  got to kind of reinvent myself and figure out who I am, what it
• 43:40
  is that I want. How is that different than
• 43:42
  society or what I thought? And even in the therapist world,
• 43:46
  too. All good stuff, right?
• 43:50
  To start a movement and to start change, yeah.
• 43:54
  And some, you know, these things usually come out of somebody's
• 43:57
  had a tough experience or a difficult or a challenge and
• 44:00
  there's nothing there addressing it.
• 44:01
  And so it, it ignites a movement, it ignites
• 44:04
  conversations, it ignites these things that we need to be doing
• 44:07
  to support each other through and be open to all different
• 44:11
  kinds of ways of doing that. But I love that curiosity piece.
• 44:14
  That's a big thing too. Curiosity takes the judgement
• 44:16
  piece out curiosity and also curiosity creates a pathway for
• 44:21
  empathy for for yourself and others when you you choose
• 44:25
  curiosity over judgement on yourself as well as other
• 44:28
  people. So I think that's a huge, huge
• 44:30
  piece of these conversations. Talk to me about within that,
• 44:36
  accepting the layered aspects of yourself, accepting that these
• 44:40
  parts and pieces that make up who I am in my journey.
• 44:43
  I don't they weren't all what I expected.
• 44:46
  I don't necessarily love them all, but they are a piece of my
• 44:48
  story. So again, this is where that
• 44:50
  curiosity piece you spoke to it so well comes in, is in in our
• 44:55
  layers journey. So talk to me about that.
• 44:58
  Yeah, I I became a mother later in life.
• 45:01
  I was 36, I think. I think yeah, 36.
• 45:06
  But but that that's a long time to think that you know yourself
• 45:13
  and and that identity. And so, yeah, having to, like I
• 45:20
  said, reinvent myself and think about who I am now and what is
• 45:24
  it that I want. And and then it then it kind of
• 45:26
  was realizing that society did kind of play a part in that.
• 45:31
  It was my own, but still. Sure.
• 45:36
  And yeah, just I, it's so interesting.
• 45:39
  I was reconnecting with a high school friend.
• 45:41
  So I'm 48 and, you know, reminiscing and, and almost
• 45:47
  like, you can't, you, you can't make this stuff up.
• 45:51
  Like where we thought we would be and where we end up, you
• 45:53
  know, just just just interesting, interesting
• 45:57
  stories. Fascinating really.
• 46:01
  And, and I, if I look back on what my expectations were
• 46:05
  regarding family, if you, you know, if you'd had a crystal
• 46:10
  ball and said you're going to, you're just only going to have
• 46:11
  one child by choice, I would have thought no way, no way.
• 46:15
  But I couldn't have predicted. I couldn't have known.
• 46:19
  So it, it's, I guess, I, I guess I just think of surrendering to
• 46:24
  the journey and, and surrendering that curiosity.
• 46:28
  And it is, it's like, it's like, huh, you know, it's a wild ride
• 46:33
  and it's fascinating. And I'm, I'm, I'm for it, you
• 46:36
  know? Yeah, I'm up for the, the
• 46:38
  layers. You talk about the layers.
• 46:40
  I love that. And it's like, it's just
• 46:46
  fascinating, right? How they, how they unfold in
• 46:48
  ways that I would have never predicted or expected.
• 46:52
  Yeah. And, and I'm, I'm, I'm up for
• 46:55
  it. I'm up for the wild ride.
• 46:56
  Yeah, yeah. And you're, you know, I think I
• 46:59
  want to point out now, I mean, your daughter is what, 12 now?
• 47:02
  Yeah, should be 12 this year. Yeah.
• 47:03
  You know, so these are things you've continued to do and think
• 47:06
  about what a great resource you're gonna be for her as a
• 47:10
  woman. The information you're gonna be
• 47:13
  able to give her, that she's gonna be so much more equipped.
• 47:17
  You know, as she makes choices, she's gonna have all this
• 47:20
  information. That's so empowering when you
• 47:23
  can do that. Yeah, yeah.
• 47:26
  Oh, I hope so. Yeah.
• 47:27
  Yeah. I know, I know.
• 47:30
  I just, I feel like my biggest message to my daughter is to
• 47:34
  embrace who you are and what you want, regardless of the
• 47:38
  pushback. Yeah, that, that I feel like is
• 47:41
  the biggest message because it is about loving myself through
• 47:46
  this. And, and if, you know, going
• 47:51
  against the grain or going against the norm in so many
• 47:56
  ways, it is like, you know, coming out.
• 48:00
  Yeah, this is this is what I experienced.
• 48:03
  And, and it may not be the norm and it may not even be accepted
• 48:10
  in some ways. You know, I, I think when I look
• 48:14
  at the diagnosing of postpartum depression, I, I think for a lot
• 48:19
  of women, it's a relief. It's a relief because if I that
• 48:25
  have to come to terms with saying I don't enjoy this, but
• 48:29
  society says I was supposed to do this.
• 48:31
  So I was meant for this. Oh my God, it's it can be so
• 48:35
  confusing, right? And and then for me, it was
• 48:41
  loving myself. And so that's my message, I
• 48:44
  guess, to my daughter, whatever, whatever it, wherever her path
• 48:47
  takes her, if there's at all pushing against the norm or the
• 48:53
  grain, you know, I'm, I'm like, I, I hope you find your way.
• 48:56
  I hope you love yourself through that.
• 48:58
  Aren't aren't we all in some way, shape or form having the
• 49:03
  fight? That question of do I belong?
• 49:06
  I mean, I think, I think all of us in some way, shape or form
• 49:09
  land there. Then I don't know, I think.
• 49:12
  I think so too. I agree 100%.
• 49:14
  I haven't talked to anyone who hasn't had bumped into that
• 49:17
  along the way. Yeah.
• 49:19
  I want to belong and I want to be accepted.
• 49:21
  I want to be part of the tribe and and in this particular area.
• 49:25
  If they really knew that about me, yeah.
• 49:31
  So you're opening lanes for conversations about it now
• 49:33
  because I want to be very clear, postpartum depression is a very
• 49:36
  real thing. Let's just make sure that we're
• 49:39
  responsible with that diagnosis. So the women that are
• 49:42
  experiencing that get what they need, but the women that aren't
• 49:45
  that we don't give them something that's not going to
• 49:48
  help them because that's not actually what they're suffering
• 49:51
  from. And let's open spaces where
• 49:54
  they're, they don't feel like, oh, I hope it's just this
• 49:57
  because I can't deal with the stigma that goes there.
• 49:59
  Let's get them real resources. So wherever they land in this
• 50:03
  nuanced conversation, they feel safe and resourced and not
• 50:08
  scared and shameful. You know, I think that's an
• 50:11
  important piece to say too. All right.
• 50:14
  And in living out feel, which you have done, finding
• 50:17
  empowerment, embracing layers, talk to me about the impact that
• 50:20
  has had on your relationship with yourself as well as your
• 50:23
  relationship with other people. Yeah, you mean just like
• 50:28
  embracing? Embracing who I am then.
• 50:31
  Yeah, yeah. And how that's, you know,
• 50:32
  impacts who you are. And then also the kinds of
• 50:35
  relationships you sit on yourself or the relationships
• 50:37
  you're in, how that impacts them.
• 50:41
  Yeah, I, I think it's about humility and, and vulnerability,
• 50:47
  right? There's nothing more connecting,
• 50:49
  I think than vulnerability. And I think that that's one of
• 50:55
  the things that I would love to get out there to other moms is
• 51:00
  that it's OK to be vulnerable. It's OK to share their stories.
• 51:03
  And what I think they will find is other moms saying, Oh my
• 51:06
  gosh, you need to. I thought I was alone, but now
• 51:09
  I'm not the more the more we can talk about it.
• 51:13
  So I think it is embracing, I guess like who who we are scared
• 51:21
  maybe to to truly be or to truly say and and to share that out
• 51:25
  loud and and find ways to connect with other people.
• 51:29
  That's where I think the gold is and especially especially in
• 51:32
  motherhood as well. So I think, I think that, sorry,
• 51:36
  this is a little cliche, but it's like when I'm vulnerable, I
• 51:38
  think it invites other people to show up authentically.
• 51:42
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It creates a safety space of
• 51:45
  like, I mean, there's nothing more relieving than to hear
• 51:49
  someone say something that you can connect to that you were
• 51:53
  like, Oh my gosh, I thought I couldn't say that out loud, or I
• 51:55
  thought I was the only one, or I was feeling really bad about
• 51:58
  this. But Oh my gosh, you too.
• 52:00
  Let's talk about this. Let's make you know, there's so
• 52:02
  much. And then being surrounded with
• 52:05
  relationships and people that support that, even if it's not
• 52:08
  their experience, they listen to you, they honor you, they know
• 52:11
  you. And so you can be exactly who
• 52:15
  you are in that space with them. Having those conversations with
• 52:19
  your partners. I think you talked about this
• 52:20
  earlier, finding that way to support each other through this
• 52:24
  because your partner's not going to physically understand your
• 52:27
  experience or emotionally they can't.
• 52:29
  It's just not going to happen. And even if you're partnered
• 52:32
  with another woman, if they haven't had, you know, they're
• 52:34
  still not going to understand that, you know, but you know,
• 52:38
  but making sure you have the conversations in advance of like
• 52:42
  how, how are these different things going to be divided up so
• 52:45
  that I'm feeling supported? You're feeling like you're part
• 52:48
  of it, you know, and that we can show up for each other within.
• 52:52
  And I think those are important conversations that many time
• 52:55
  don't happen till you're in the moment.
• 52:57
  Have them in advance, have them before the fact.
• 53:00
  That's just going to add another layer of feeling prepared, you
• 53:04
  know, in the experience too. All right, thank you so much for
• 53:07
  that. All right, we are winding down
• 53:09
  here to the rapid fire named 5 Activities That Nourish You.
• 53:15
  Oh gosh, I love that question. Let's see.
• 53:18
  So I have a a daily exercise routine that I love.
• 53:22
  I go walking and that's that's changed, I think, for all of us
• 53:25
  that are getting older. But I used.
• 53:26
  I used to be a runner, but now I.
• 53:28
  Me too. Me too, but you know, it's still
• 53:34
  brings me joy and I love it. I love the laugh.
• 53:40
  So I think that would be probably hanging out with people
• 53:43
  and friends and family or a good comedy.
• 53:48
  And I think I think having a good sense of humor about myself
• 53:52
  too is fun. So humor and laughter.
• 53:56
  I'm a foodie in there, so good food.
• 54:00
  I love Sunday brunch or just brunch in general.
• 54:05
  Good egg dish and A and a pastry of some sort or dessert.
• 54:11
  I love to have things to look forward to so I'm putting things
• 54:16
  on my calendar. Vacation or we can get away or
• 54:19
  even just a lunch with a friend. Always keeps me invigorated and
• 54:25
  and keeps me happy. And number 50 goodness, I think,
• 54:35
  I think it's just some good entertainment, whether that be,
• 54:38
  you know, binge watching TV or a movie or podcast.
• 54:41
  And I think I think that comes with I said entertainment, but I
• 54:48
  like I like being invigorated. Not, not, not that I love, hey,
• 54:51
  binge watching whatever, that's great too.
• 54:54
  But I think, I think I need the combination of just frivolous
• 54:59
  entertainment, but also to be invigorated somehow, someway.
• 55:02
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'll say so.
• 55:05
  Good. All right, in five words on how
• 55:07
  you want to feel the next six months.
• 55:11
  Oh, I love that. OK.
• 55:13
  I want to feel hopeful for continuing to get my message out
• 55:19
  there and my idea. I want to feel this is a
• 55:25
  feeling. How is the feeling?
• 55:27
  But I'll get there. Fun, light maybe, or playful?
• 55:32
  Playful. Yeah, playful.
• 55:33
  Oh, I love that. I think I think fun should be a
• 55:36
  feeling. I think it should be too.
• 55:38
  And it's not something. I'm so glad you brought that up.
• 55:40
  I feel neat to feel like we can have fun as adults so much, you
• 55:45
  know, and, and just having those things we do for the fun of it.
• 55:50
  That's the only purpose is the fun of it.
• 55:53
  Yeah, I think that's really important.
• 55:57
  I want to feel, yeah, this words are hard.
• 56:05
  I I love the idea of like collaborating with people
• 56:08
  inspired, I guess kind of links back to hopeful too, but
• 56:16
  purposeful. I'll use that word.
• 56:18
  I feel purposeful and like like I've got some forward momentum,
• 56:21
  forward movement. I want to feel as grateful,
• 56:28
  grateful that that I went through what I went through,
• 56:32
  which I do, but also grateful that I can get this message out
• 56:36
  there. I'm trying to I'm feeling worth,
• 56:41
  but I with the grateful I'm trying to land a a Ted stage, a
• 56:44
  Ted or Ted X stage to to get this message out there right.
• 56:48
  So that would be so good, so important.
• 56:50
  We will be on the front. Page I mean.
• 56:53
  The heck out of that, if that comes, I'd love.
• 56:55
  That good? Yeah, so I think, I think the
• 56:57
  last word I think would be pride proud, pride proud.
• 57:03
  Yeah, however that goes. But like, I, I would love to
• 57:07
  look back after six months and say, Oh my gosh, look at what I
• 57:11
  did. Yeah.
• 57:13
  I mean, pride. Pride's a good feeling, right?
• 57:15
  It is, and I think we have to be careful.
• 57:17
  That's another word we can. They can go, but the IT work, it
• 57:21
  can be a positive. It doesn't just have to be the
• 57:24
  the negative impact because again, I think we have to like
• 57:27
  be careful that we don't just put one end of a definition on
• 57:30
  something absolutely so good. All right, Marissa, tell people,
• 57:34
  let these women know how they can find you, follow you, and
• 57:36
  how you might an example of how you would show up for them.
• 57:40
  Yeah, absolutely. I so I I've been in the social
• 57:44
  media thing. I've got a TikTok, the what do
• 57:49
  they call it? Not the tag, but the the what's
• 57:52
  that word social media where my maybe this tag, but it's
• 57:55
  postpartum happiness. That's my.
• 57:57
  Oh, the handle your handle. Handle.
• 57:59
  Thank you. We're I told you words are hard.
• 58:02
  It could be, it could be. But yeah, my handle is
• 58:04
  postpartum happiness. So that would be TikTok,
• 58:07
  Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, my website,
• 58:14
  ispostpartumhappiness.com. And I've got the blog and all
• 58:20
  the social media and you can tell that my message is about
• 58:24
  normalizing the hardships of motherhood and that it's OK.
• 58:28
  And, and how that plays a part in maternal mental health.
• 58:34
  And, and of course, not taking away from these real diagnosis
• 58:37
  that's adding to the conversation.
• 58:39
  And then I have a book Postpartum Happiness.
• 58:42
  What to do when you love the kids that hate the job, right?
• 58:46
  Like, just get out there, Yes. And that's on Amazon.
• 58:49
  It's also on my website. But yeah, if you just, I think,
• 58:53
  if you, I think if you Google postpartum happiness, hopefully
• 58:56
  I show up. OK.
• 58:58
  And then also two people can work with you like one-on-one,
• 59:01
  correct? Oh yes, absolutely, absolutely,
• 59:04
  yes. So I do.
• 59:05
  I do the coaching anywhere in the world as a licensed
• 59:10
  therapist. It would be in California.
• 59:12
  But like I said, I picked on more of a coaching model.
• 59:15
  And, you know, sometimes it's just, it can just be a couple
• 59:19
  sessions, honestly, you know, just to navigate this whirlwind
• 59:24
  called motherhood and to speak with somebody who has gone
• 59:28
  through maybe something similar to what you're going through and
• 59:31
  to know that you're in safe hands and somebody who will
• 59:33
  really see you and understand and help get you better footing
• 59:40
  and more self. Yeah.
• 59:41
  Yeah, and feeling like yourself again.
• 59:43
  Absolutely, Absolutely. Marissa, thank you so much.
• 59:47
  I love what you do. It's so important.
• 59:49
  It's so necessary. And I appreciate you being
• 59:52
  willing to be a voice in this arena.
• 59:56
  Ladies, if you aren't one of these people, I guarantee you
• 59:59
  know somebody who needs these resources.
• 1:00:02
  And also as women, let's help normalize these conversations.
• 1:00:06
  Let's leave our judgment behind and bring our curiosity and our
• 1:00:11
  support and our empathetic listening ear as we are around
• 1:00:16
  women and, and make safe places for the nuances of these
• 1:00:20
  experiences so we can get women resources where they feel safe
• 1:00:24
  and not isolated. I think that's such an important
• 1:00:26
  part. Thanks so much for being with me
• 1:00:29
  on this episode. I appreciate you so much,
• 1:00:31
  ladies. Again, I I've given you the way
• 1:00:34
  to, I want you to engage with this.
• 1:00:36
  Go to embracinglayers.com on our resources page.
• 1:00:39
  It's all going to be there. And let's be really mindful and
• 1:00:42
  supportive of women, of moms, of these conversations.
• 1:00:47
  Take good care and have a great week.
• 1:00:53
  Hello, Melissa Crook here. Thank you so much for joining us
• 1:00:57
  on the field podcast today. Finding empowerment, Embracing
• 1:01:01
  Layers. I hope you found today's
• 1:01:04
  framework and resources supportive and informative.
• 1:01:07
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• 1:01:11
  Layers network, visit embracinglayers.com.
• 1:01:15
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• 1:01:19
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• 1:01:23
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• 1:01:26
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• 1:01:30
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• 1:01:34
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• 1:01:38
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• 1:01:41
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• 1:01:45
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• 1:01:52
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• 1:02:23
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• 1:02:36
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• 1:02:42
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