Latest / The Payments Shed / Ep. 57 - Owning the Merchant: Embedded Payments, Hyper-Growth & the Future of Hospitality — with yetipay's Oliver Pugh

Transcript

Ep. 57 - Owning the Merchant: Embedded Payments, Hyper-Growth & the Future of Hospitality — with yetipay's Oliver Pugh · The Payments Shed

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Payment Shed Podcast, the weekly podcast that
• 0:03
  dives into the big topics, trends and people shaping the
• 0:06
  world's of payments, fintech and business leadership of your two
• 0:09
  Co hosts, myself Grant Evans and Justin Hannah.
• 0:14
  Welcome to another episode of the Payment Shed podcast.
• 0:17
  Today we are joined by Ollie Pugh, founder of Yeti Pay.
• 0:20
  Ollie, welcome to the show. It's good to be here.
• 0:23
  Good to have you here. Please can you tell us a little
• 0:25
  bit about yourself, your journey in Fintech payments and now
• 0:28
  you've ended up as the founder of Yeti Pay?
• 0:31
  How far back do you want me to go?
• 0:33
  You decide. OK.
• 0:36
  So Yeti Pay is 7 years old. It was originally founded with
• 0:42
  the name Table Yeti, which people may have heard of.
• 0:47
  And we wanted to make a payment device that you could leave with
• 0:51
  guests when they asked for their bill in the restaurant.
• 0:54
  So like a leave at table payment device and that was the original
• 0:58
  product that we made. I knew nothing about payments.
• 1:01
  So to think that like in 7 1/2 years on, I'd be like talking on
• 1:05
  some payment podcast. So I didn't even know what a mid
• 1:07
  was is a is a, you know, it's funny how the world works out
• 1:12
  things. But yeah, I don't know.
• 1:15
  Again, like people zoom back to what was early 2019.
• 1:20
  We started building in 2018. Like there was no like Android
• 1:24
  based payment terminals anything like that.
• 1:26
  So what we to make a payment device that you could leave with
• 1:29
  guests. So the payment terminals look
• 1:31
  like a Nokia 3310. Some still do, most don't.
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  We like kind of like hacked together an iPhone with an app
• 1:41
  that we ran out on it and then a Myora card reader, which some
• 1:45
  people may or may not know. And we put it in a little wallet
• 1:48
  and then we sold it to some restaurants in and around London
• 1:52
  and some in Liverpool. One of which Marais shout out
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  still still accustomed to this day.
• 1:58
  Plug. I spent a good few months living
• 2:02
  in their basement on Bold St. like making sure the tech
• 2:04
  worked. And yeah, that was the that was
• 2:10
  the that was the thing that got me into the industry.
• 2:12
  And there's like an amazing deck somewhere that someone actually
• 2:18
  shared with me a few weeks ago, which is like like how I planned
• 2:22
  out the journey of like going from where we were then, which
• 2:26
  was the site, this piece of software running on a iPhone
• 2:30
  with a connected card machine. And we weren't making any money
• 2:33
  out of payments. And like we were not even we
• 2:36
  think we sold the devices and then charged the SAS fee to like
• 2:40
  going up the stack to where we are now.
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  And so along the way with learner learn a hell of a lot of
• 2:48
  a hell of a lot of stuff. And do you think hospitality is
• 2:50
  like a great industry to really cut your teeth in if you're
• 2:53
  bounding a payments company? That is a very good question, I
• 2:59
  think. Well, I was born and raised in
• 3:01
  like pubs and restaurants and my grandparents had pubs and
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  restaurants. And so I and then my first job
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  was like working in a bar actually, you know, my first job
• 3:11
  was working at Safeway, but I quit after weeks.
• 3:13
  I hated it so much. Safeway yeah, that's that's full
• 3:17
  RIP. And like, like, I just, I knew
• 3:25
  the needs and wants and problems and pain points that that
• 3:30
  industry tended to face. And so it, oh, it always felt
• 3:37
  quite natural. It felt quite natural for me to
• 3:40
  be living in the basement of a restaurant, right?
• 3:42
  Or just like going behind their bar and unplugging an Ethernet
• 3:46
  cable. Like this kind of stuff was like
• 3:48
  this. It was normal for me.
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  And so that was yeah. So I, I, I was, I, I tended to
• 3:55
  be fairly well placed for it. Would I recommend people
• 3:59
  focusing on hospitality as a part of the market to go after
• 4:04
  if you were starting a payments company?
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  I would, but it's a it's a very large part.
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  It has a lot of transaction volume and there are definitely
• 4:20
  paying points that are unique and can be addressed.
• 4:23
  But if you just want to go into that part of the market and sell
• 4:25
  like bog standard acquiring like you are in a race to the bottom
• 4:29
  straight up like say hello to one basis point of net revenue
• 4:34
  and. People will still take it,
• 4:36
  right? And people will take it, you
• 4:37
  know, but we've seen the statements.
• 4:38
  It's awful. What do you think was?
• 4:39
  Kind of the moment, that kind of all challenge that shaped kind
• 4:42
  of the way you thought about building the product, was there
• 4:46
  like an hour moment? Like the way there was a few
• 4:56
  over the years, I think so for a long time.
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  Well, if you can't take it back where we were when we started,
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  like we were just like we had this.
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  It was actually the NMI gateway and we plugged it in direct to
• 5:09
  the mid and got like a new Ted from Scure retail.
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  Now the shout outs and some old friends and, and so like in that
• 5:19
  scenario, we basically had no control over anything to do with
• 5:23
  payments. And so, you know, they logged
• 5:26
  into a separate portal, they're already signed up.
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  Like we didn't even get them amid a lot of the time.
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  I'd say 99% of the time they already had one because they
• 5:33
  took payments from someone else. And then we kind of like went
• 5:39
  upstream a little bit and started working with a payment
• 5:41
  facilitator. And so like we had a little more
• 5:47
  control, but like all the underwriting, all of the, all
• 5:53
  the onboarding, all of like the customer like reporting portal
• 5:59
  was still the pay fax. And so you still had these like
• 6:01
  2-2 separate products that were trying to like kind of coexist
• 6:08
  and that doesn't feel very good for the customer.
• 6:11
  And then we went up another level and rebuilt the whole
• 6:14
  thing on, on Adient for Adient for platforms.
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  And really so that like, I think it was during that pay fact time
• 6:23
  where we began to understand that like if we really wanted to
• 6:27
  scale this business, we needed to be in control of our own
• 6:30
  destiny when it came to the things we could build and the
• 6:33
  products that we could deliver. And so we were, I, I spent a
• 6:37
  good amount of time trying to find a plaque.
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  I, I really didn't want to go out and be like a regulated
• 6:43
  entity. Like that was a big thing that I
• 6:45
  just wanted to avoid. So I know it was going to cost a
• 6:47
  lot of capital. And so I found Adian that kind
• 6:56
  of had got their platform to a stage where that they, they
• 6:59
  could deliver all the things that I had realized we needed to
• 7:03
  be able to build. And then we built it.
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  And that was like a big, but I guess the big aha moment for us
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  was like, once we built it, we were like, OK, let's on board a
• 7:16
  merchant through our own system. And then it was just like
• 7:20
  approved in like 2 minutes. And we were like, oh, we've just
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  come from a world where like that would have taken maybe 2
• 7:27
  weeks. And so like, that was the, that
• 7:31
  was like a, a a ha moment when it came to like realizing the
• 7:36
  power of like owning your own like payments.
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  Such an interesting answer for me because you know, you talk
• 7:42
  about the multiple moving parts that have led to the embedded
• 7:47
  payment seekers. Obviously I work in the embedded
• 7:49
  payments ecosystem myself these days, but the way that SAS
• 7:53
  companies and you know, you guys obviously started you said with
• 7:55
  a different solution to a pureplay payment solution,
• 7:58
  right? But you you probably had
• 8:00
  frustration with the payment solutions to start by this.
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  I always hear this story of like, we thought we could do it
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  better. Like, you know, it's a constant
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  trend that we would need to look at as a payments industry in, in
• 8:10
  the main. But I think it's too late for
• 8:13
  that. I mean, the, the ecosystem now
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  of Isvs and embedded payments is, is very mature and, and rich
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  and it's done a lot of good things for the industry as well.
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  But I always think it's very interesting when you hear about
• 8:23
  the journey to becoming an embedded payments operation from
• 8:28
  that starting point of going, this just doesn't work.
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  There's too many moving parts here, like we can consolidate
• 8:32
  this and we can be the vessel for this whole operation and
• 8:36
  payments. It's just a cog in our wheel.
• 8:38
  Yeah. It's a really interesting pivot
• 8:40
  that I think, you know, has obviously benefit for you guys,
• 8:42
  right? It's been good for us for sure.
• 8:45
  We, there is a hell of a lot of stuff that you then still have
• 8:50
  to build. And I'd think that a lot of
• 8:53
  organizations and you'll probably see this in your world
• 8:56
  of doing embedded. And we've heard this from some
• 9:00
  other companies that offer embedded payment solutions like
• 9:05
  many, many Isvs, many, many SAS products, that's that.
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  And many POS companies which is actually called Isvs like that
• 9:13
  go down this embedded path. They they really struggle to
• 9:19
  deliver something that the market needs because like the
• 9:25
  things that are the market really needs like as table
• 9:29
  stakes is like a settlement engine that can do gross net.
• 9:34
  Most embedded can only do net. A billing engine.
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  You need to be able to build our billing engine on top of an
• 9:41
  embedded on top of an embedded platform, an embeddable
• 9:47
  platform, I guess you'd say that can do per card.
• 9:52
  So you know, debit, domestic debit, credit, commercial, Visa,
• 9:56
  MasterCard split out, then EU, then global.
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  And like everything you'd see on a well paid bill or a
• 10:02
  Barclaycard bill or a Dojo bill, if you can't price in the same
• 10:06
  way, you'll really struggle to like get a lot of that volume
• 10:10
  over to your over to your platform.
• 10:13
  You've got to be able to want, you've got to really actually
• 10:16
  get to grips with some of the risk around like the like B2B
• 10:20
  stuff that you would just like on board Willy nilly if you
• 10:24
  didn't understand that. Like, you know, if a furniture
• 10:26
  shop is pre sold 100 grams worth of furniture and goes pop, you
• 10:30
  know, you're on the hook when you're on a pay FAC or an
• 10:33
  embedded platform. And then so you've got to do all
• 10:38
  these things really, really well and like and if you do all those
• 10:44
  things really well and you can build a really good product,
• 10:50
  then you are a able to compete in the wider payments ecosystem.
• 10:55
  All of that before you can even compete, right?
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  Then you need customers to want your product.
• 10:59
  Exactly. That's the hardest story itself.
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  Yeah, yeah, exactly. And we were lucky because we had
• 11:04
  lucky, I guess. But we call it luck or not is a
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  different thing. But like we, we had existing
• 11:09
  volume, so we could, we, we were able to move that volume over to
• 11:14
  our own embedded product while we built all of this stuff.
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  So that was like a few key things that we knew we needed to
• 11:22
  build for our existing customers.
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  And then the rest we kind of dribbled in over time.
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  If you were starting from a stand from a.
• 11:28
  If you started from a standing start, that would be very hard.
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  What kind of you think is that biggest misconception that
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  people have of that kind of space in comes of payments and
• 11:39
  hospitality? Do you think something people
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  think is going to be easy, but actually it's a lot more
• 11:42
  difficult than than maybe what the average Joe would would
• 11:45
  consider? As in in payments or in like the
• 11:47
  wider world? In payments.
• 11:49
  In payments, Yeah. Yeah.
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  So I was going to say, in the wider world, something that we
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  always joke about is that people don't really care about their
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  payments. That that's the irony.
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  It's like we do all this work on making it amazing and adding all
• 11:59
  these features and like if you really ask an operator about
• 12:03
  their payments, they won't say very much.
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  Needs to be quick, needs to. Work right now, take my payment,
• 12:09
  give me. My money as quickly as possible.
• 12:11
  And that's kind of the way the world is.
• 12:14
  And I'd just like love to have a crazy pink payment terminal like
• 12:18
  everywhere and like, you know, this kind of stuff, but no one's
• 12:20
  going to care. But your question was very much
• 12:24
  like what the industry gets wrong.
• 12:28
  Maybe that's what they get wrong.
• 12:30
  Maybe I'll just answer my own question that they think that
• 12:32
  people care about their payments.
• 12:35
  Because that's that new customer journey about the UX journey
• 12:38
  that people always consider to be an online process.
• 12:40
  Yeah. And actually the the face to
• 12:42
  face customer journey. It's what you guys have been
• 12:45
  building kind of a solution for is just make it easier for the
• 12:49
  customer to pay. Yeah, that's all they really
• 12:51
  care about. And don't go to the bar to go
• 12:53
  and get my bill. That and you might take 3 or 4
• 12:56
  minutes because someone's not talking to you.
• 12:57
  I'm still here waiting for my bill.
• 12:58
  Yeah, there's, yeah, there's there are.
• 13:01
  I mean, maybe I was being a little facetious, but like, they
• 13:03
  don't care at all. Like they, they, they, they,
• 13:08
  they get the. Let me understand, let me get my
• 13:12
  phrasing right on this. Like there's a lot of cool stuff
• 13:17
  that you can do with a payment terminal that people don't
• 13:19
  really think about, right? Like your payment terminal is
• 13:23
  the really is the interface. If you can think about this or
• 13:28
  your payment terminal, your online gateway, but we live in
• 13:30
  payment terminal world, is that your interface between like your
• 13:35
  customers buying stuff in your bar or restaurant and like all
• 13:42
  of the data that you want to ever be able to capture, Like,
• 13:46
  And so like, you know, being able to tokenize a card that
• 13:51
  comes in each time and then see how much that card's spent
• 13:55
  around your estate. Super duper valuable.
• 13:57
  But people don't really, people don't connect the dots of like,
• 14:01
  well, if we had a payment terminal that was compatible
• 14:03
  with doing this, then we'd be able to do it on the back end.
• 14:06
  And it's like, no, we're locked into some contract with XY and Z
• 14:10
  that we signed up with two years ago, doesn't run out for three
• 14:13
  years. And so the 98% of the
• 14:16
  transactions that go through our establishments, we can't
• 14:18
  tokenize them, right. And so like people get really,
• 14:21
  we can get quite stuck. And just like this, not anyone's
• 14:24
  fault. It's just like the realities of
• 14:25
  the industry that we work in. You can do some amazing stuff
• 14:29
  now with like loyalty things. I don't think anyone has really
• 14:34
  cracked at scale like the Apple embedded loyalty stuff.
• 14:38
  The Apple vast loyalty is exceptionally good.
• 14:41
  Like we've been playing with it a lot.
• 14:44
  And like, you link that up with the POS data and a tokenized
• 14:47
  card and all of a sudden you end up with this like nice single
• 14:49
  customer view that hospitality has been like dreaming of
• 14:52
  forever. We've had crowd and zeal on both
• 14:56
  very different loyalty platforms on the show previously.
• 14:58
  But again, to your point, like when we heard them speak were
• 15:01
  like it's just untapped this data resource.
• 15:03
  We've got so much data at like the tips of our fingers within
• 15:06
  the payments ecosystem that's not servicing that like, and I
• 15:10
  don't know if I think it might have been with was there was
• 15:12
  talking about like the football stadium experience.
• 15:15
  And like you should know everything about that fan.
• 15:18
  You should know what food and drink they buy, what kits they
• 15:22
  buy on a seasonal basis. Do they have a you know about
• 15:24
  when they have a favorite player?
• 15:25
  Like then you build your marketing around that.
• 15:28
  The issue with football clubs is stadiums have come really
• 15:30
  payment fragmented. So there's no single source of
• 15:32
  data to know that. Like they wouldn't have a clue
• 15:34
  what I buy. The food and drink that will be
• 15:35
  going through, you know, the outsourced hospitality,
• 15:38
  catering, partly who's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, with.
• 15:41
  That doing the kits you've got embedded exactly it's.
• 15:44
  Like then you go online onto your retailer and you're getting
• 15:46
  text from your retail. You buy clothes from all the
• 15:50
  time. They're knowing you as a
• 15:51
  customer and they're trying to keep you interested.
• 15:54
  And it's just not happening. That POS.
• 15:55
  Well, or it is, but people are not doing enough of it or the
• 15:59
  businesses are not interested enough in it.
• 16:01
  They'll say they are, but they don't do anything about it.
• 16:02
  Yeah. I, I wonder whether it's like
• 16:06
  those systems end up being run by the operation people because
• 16:10
  like their operation's heavy, right?
• 16:13
  Like you got a piece of hardware, you got to wire it in,
• 16:16
  like it breaks like you go get a new one.
• 16:18
  You have to, the people need to know how to order a new one.
• 16:21
  All this stuff happens. Whereas like the online stuff is
• 16:25
  I guess LED more by like the developers and the marketers,
• 16:28
  right? Because the marketers are
• 16:29
  driving the traffic. And so they've been very savvy
• 16:33
  to this stuff over a long time. And like, and there are
• 16:37
  companies that by Adian being one of them that at scale for
• 16:43
  merchants processing very large volumes have been able to build
• 16:48
  this like incredible unified commerce layer.
• 16:51
  And it's worked in, it's worked really well.
• 16:54
  But like on the bell curve, like it sits like over here on like
• 16:59
  the from like the number of merchants, obviously the volume
• 17:02
  is huge, but actually from a number of individual merchants,
• 17:06
  not that many. Whereas like this middle piece
• 17:08
  of the bell is like it's kind of all this stuff.
• 17:11
  It's a kind of non existent. Addressable market that someone
• 17:13
  could be tapping into yeah, like you mentioned before I think if
• 17:16
  you go to a lot of these whether it's sports stadium, so it might
• 17:19
  be in house plateau, it's being looked at by someone in
• 17:21
  operations or someone in finance.
• 17:22
  It's not being looked at by the marketing team will go to
• 17:25
  marketing the cost of acquisition of our customers and
• 17:27
  how we're retaining our customers.
• 17:29
  So if I do go to my local foot upstate Northampton Town and I
• 17:32
  wanted to order a beer and then have one or two beers, but they
• 17:36
  should know already exactly right, right.
• 17:38
  Of course it is like if if if I go in, they should know that I
• 17:41
  order a Carlsberg 1/2 time every single time I go in there.
• 17:44
  Why not send me a message for the game saying that you said
• 17:46
  before grand is do you want to pre-order your favorite beer and
• 17:49
  go and collect it at half time? Now that is a completely
• 17:52
  different thought process for a consumer that really feels like
• 17:55
  the business is caring about them.
• 17:57
  But there's going to be no one in that business that's thinking
• 17:59
  about that because they are most outsourced into a different
• 18:03
  company. Their job is to get people
• 18:04
  through the door to buy merchandise, not necessarily to
• 18:07
  come in. And what they could do is spend
• 18:09
  a lot more money on food and beverages across the season than
• 18:12
  they do on a season ticket and A and A and a jersey.
• 18:15
  Yeah, I, I mean, I, you know, if, if they, if Northampton
• 18:18
  Football Club sold two more pints per attendee per year, but
• 18:26
  I wonder what that's worth. Yeah, it's.
• 18:27
  Going to be a player at least, doesn't it yeah.
• 18:30
  You would sell at that level I. Don't know how much a
• 18:32
  Northampton Town player is nowadays, but it could be a
• 18:35
  maybe a couple of players probably, yeah.
• 18:39
  So. When we take a step back just to
• 18:42
  talk about embedded payments, again as a terminology because
• 18:45
  everyone defines it slightly differently, I find in the
• 18:48
  market like how do you see it as like an actual operation
• 18:55
  operating model and what do you think it means in terms of
• 19:00
  practicality for a puzzle SAS company?
• 19:02
  Yeah. So it's actually a conversation
• 19:07
  that we've been having a lot internally because we we
• 19:10
  actually have two products that sit under our like embedded,
• 19:14
  embedded arm. One is fundamentally a white
• 19:18
  label product, which is like you could be an ISO and sign up and
• 19:23
  and but resell payments. That is us and Addy and in the
• 19:27
  background, but under your own brand, that's white label.
• 19:30
  Like you've got no technology that you can embed our product
• 19:36
  into, right. And so if you haven't got any
• 19:39
  tech you own, you know, white label things, we have that.
• 19:42
  But for me, fully embedded is where a ISV, POS company, SAS
• 19:52
  company can take your APIs, take your documentation, put it in
• 19:58
  their product and their users can seamlessly use those
• 20:08
  components within their product and them never know that in the
• 20:12
  background is. Yeti, Adi and well pay, et
• 20:16
  cetera. That's the that's really that
• 20:19
  and that's all the way through the journey, whether that's
• 20:21
  signing them up to the, the, the, to the merchant account or
• 20:28
  whether that's them getting invoiced or whether that's them
• 20:31
  refunding A transaction, whether that's them ordering a new
• 20:34
  device, whether that's them having to do a chargeback
• 20:37
  management like that for me. And that has to be embedded.
• 20:40
  I think the, the, the company that has the deepest embedded
• 20:44
  technology stack right now is Stripe.
• 20:46
  They, they for sure do when it comes to like they, how deep
• 20:50
  they can go with their own components.
• 20:53
  And that, that having your own components drives a lot of a
• 20:56
  lot, a lot faster speed to market, right?
• 21:00
  Like when you build on ones where you have to build these
• 21:03
  components, it takes a lot more time and effort and investment
• 21:07
  money to be able to. Yeah.
• 21:10
  Like it's amazing how complicated A payout list is.
• 21:14
  You know, like that's, yeah, that should just be built once.
• 21:17
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• 21:20
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  Within that form, Paid by provides pay by bank with real
• 21:41
  time settlement notifications, automated reconciliation and
• 21:44
  integrated refund management. One partner, one integration,
• 21:49
  helping your business transact with confidence.
• 21:51
  You can learn more at ISX dot Financial.
• 21:54
  That's ISX dot Financial and a big thank you to the team at ISX
• 21:58
  for supporting the show. How does kind of a white label
• 22:02
  offering change to economics and from kind of the influence of a
• 22:05
  past provider compared to you guys wanted to yourself?
• 22:08
  So the way that we view the white label offering and our
• 22:16
  commercials on white label and embedded are actually the same.
• 22:20
  It's more of a like it's more of a distribution play for us.
• 22:27
  And so that means that our white label partners is which we've
• 22:32
  got a few of them coming and come on board already like they,
• 22:37
  they can make more margin than they're currently getting from
• 22:41
  they can't make more net revenue than they're currently getting
• 22:43
  from a revenue share from a competitor of ours.
• 22:47
  Name any names and then yeah, and that and they get to own the
• 22:54
  brand. So like you could spin up a
• 22:57
  payment sheds payments company in like a week and start
• 23:02
  flogging that. Be your own sponsor, right and
• 23:05
  get stuff. Yeah, right.
• 23:06
  And. That it would it would look and
• 23:09
  feel like the. Shed payments company.
• 23:12
  Payments in your sheds. There you go.
• 23:15
  Yeah. So that's like, yeah, that's how
• 23:17
  the white label stuff kinda sits.
• 23:20
  And you, you touched on, you know, managing chargebacks
• 23:23
  briefly earlier as well. And there's often this notion
• 23:26
  that you become an embedded payments provider, you scale as
• 23:30
  that. And then invariably the question
• 23:32
  around do you become a pay FAC come?
• 23:34
  And you, you talked about earlier in the journey, the
• 23:37
  regulatory stuff and you didn't want that.
• 23:38
  But at what point do you think you get to a tipping point where
• 23:41
  you go actually a there's a bit more margin here, but there's
• 23:43
  still some stuff that we don't have full autonomy over that we
• 23:46
  want full autonomy over. Like is that something that you
• 23:48
  guys have discussed as a business?
• 23:50
  I think you definitely at that point you, you do you skip pay
• 23:54
  FAC and you just go full acquirer, but I don't, I think
• 23:56
  that they embed the current embedded platforms that are also
• 24:01
  acquirers like they are so good. I'm surprised we don't see that
• 24:07
  more often though, because I've I've had that said to me in the
• 24:09
  past and I think of how many people actually take the plunge
• 24:13
  to become an acquirer. Yeah, it's very rare.
• 24:16
  Yeah, it's, I mean Dojo did it right.
• 24:17
  They were payment cents. They had a big book with first
• 24:20
  data and then they managed to gather a bunch of capital and
• 24:24
  went full stack, full stack acquirer got the timing.
• 24:29
  I couldn't imagine any better with the pack, say 920 and being
• 24:33
  first to market without coming out of the back of COVID and
• 24:35
  absolutely smashed it. Their mod.
• 24:39
  I don't remember what their buy rate was from first data, but I
• 24:41
  bet it wasn't loads. I I for them, I think, yeah,
• 24:45
  it's probably very much about control and, and these things
• 24:49
  versus because like the margin is like, you know, they said it
• 24:53
  becomes super complicated without going into like the
• 24:56
  depths of detail on payments and acquiring.
• 24:59
  Like, you know, once you're the acquiring, you're, you're not
• 25:01
  just managing like risk, you're managing liquidity.
• 25:05
  So if you want to do next day payouts like, you know, cool,
• 25:09
  right, go and get. Your own line of.
• 25:10
  Credit, yeah, you need a line of credit which is going to cost
• 25:12
  you money, right. So there's like all of this
• 25:14
  stuff and becomes there's one of my, one of my favourite sayings
• 25:18
  is do you want to be king or do you want to be rich?
• 25:23
  I feel like being an acquirer is for people that want to be king.
• 25:27
  There are many other ways to get rich.
• 25:29
  Yeah, definitely without that risk.
• 25:30
  And we've seen some accounts from some acquirers over the
• 25:33
  last 12 months that probably relate to that.
• 25:36
  That's a good statement, I would say.
• 25:39
  And then if we dive into talking about numbers, that's a good
• 25:41
  segue. So from 400K to 5 million in 18
• 25:46
  months, that's very impressive, right?
• 25:49
  Yeah. How?
• 25:50
  Talk about being king and being rich.
• 25:54
  Yes, Yeah, Ideally you want to be both.
• 25:57
  No, not really. It's look, we, we'd experienced
• 26:03
  a lot of pain working with third parties and we had done a lot of
• 26:08
  experimentation with go to market and we reconciled that if
• 26:15
  we solved a list of about 10 to 50, I don't remember exactly how
• 26:19
  many problems it was. If we can figure out how to
• 26:21
  solve these 10 to 20 problems, then the unit economics of the
• 26:27
  go to market would work. And so, so that's what we did
• 26:34
  and we signed up. We did the ad INF platforms
• 26:36
  thing. It enabled us to solve those
• 26:37
  problems. And then we turned the dial up
• 26:40
  on on growth and it worked. And right now we're we've
• 26:46
  actually turned the dial back down on growth for that go to
• 26:51
  market. Those go to market activities
• 26:54
  because it's got so competitive like, and I'm, I would rather
• 27:02
  if, if a competitor wants to pay, pay a sales agent 1000 lbs
• 27:08
  for a corner shop that's probably going to churn in 12
• 27:13
  months, I'd rather they do it than us.
• 27:16
  And fair enough to the reps Like if I was one of the reps I'd be
• 27:19
  out there like taking this cash like left, right and centre.
• 27:23
  Like you cannot blame them. It's just the way the world is.
• 27:26
  And so like we don't, we, we've made a decision as a business
• 27:29
  that like that's not an area that we, we, we want to compete
• 27:33
  in anymore. And So what?
• 27:36
  So we don't and. The hardware economics have
• 27:40
  changed as well, right? I mean the the 18 month ruling.
• 27:44
  That doesn't help, yeah. Yeah.
• 27:46
  So I mean, you fund that much easier.
• 27:48
  I mean, terminal's almost given away now, right?
• 27:51
  Yeah. Well, that's yeah, you kind of,
• 27:53
  that's a double whammy because you used to be able to finance
• 27:57
  the terminal to get the cash upfront, but now everyone with
• 28:00
  big balance sheets is going out there and throwing the terminals
• 28:03
  out there for free. Which means that you do have to
• 28:06
  fund all the CAC, which is quite painful for sure.
• 28:12
  But you know, there's, we're, we're fortunate that we have
• 28:16
  some really good, not just embedded partners coming out,
• 28:20
  coming on board, but we have some really great just straight
• 28:23
  up POS partners that we're able to now deploy into their like
• 28:28
  hospitality estates. So one of the big problems that
• 28:31
  we always had was back in, back when we were smaller and hadn't
• 28:37
  grown quite so much was that like getting a POS partnership
• 28:41
  was really hard because like we're a small team, no one ever
• 28:43
  heard of us getting integration was really hard, let alone a
• 28:47
  partnership. But now we're bigger and more
• 28:50
  more well known. We've been able to like, you
• 28:52
  know, roll up some POS by actual strategic POS partnerships of
• 28:56
  point of sale companies that serve the hospitality industry.
• 28:59
  And we've got a really, really, really good product for
• 29:03
  hospitality like and it's going to get really, really, really
• 29:05
  good over the next 12 months. What did you expect to to not
• 29:09
  matter but end up making quite a big impact in, in, in that
• 29:15
  growth period where so you mentioned that actually we want
• 29:18
  to grow kind of grow all costs, but actually we don't want to
• 29:20
  grow all costs. Yeah, We have another favorite
• 29:28
  saying of mine. I've got too many.
• 29:29
  The team when they hear this, he'll probably laugh like we're
• 29:34
  as far as I'm aware the the only fintech of our scale that has
• 29:38
  never raised any venture capital.
• 29:40
  So we've got some great investors, they're individual
• 29:46
  angels, high net worths, some family offices and they've
• 29:51
  helped us grow over the years. But that means that we've kept
• 29:56
  control and we don't have a press stack for the employee
• 30:00
  stock options and all these things that people never talk
• 30:03
  about in other businesses that have taken on a lot of venture.
• 30:08
  And so like when it comes to like we could, we're established
• 30:14
  enough that if we wanted to and go and get 50 million and then
• 30:18
  go and blow it on CAC and grow to 100 million revenue.
• 30:24
  But I'm pretty sure we could probably do it like we know how
• 30:27
  to do it. So I think we could.
• 30:31
  But like the risk of doing that versus the reward, it doesn't
• 30:36
  really sit very well well with, with with me and the leadership
• 30:40
  team and, and, and our current investors.
• 30:44
  And so we don't. And so you've got to choose your
• 30:47
  battles at the end of the day, like right now, the battle is
• 30:51
  not features, it's not value. It's the battle is distribution
• 30:58
  and capital in payments for the new guys and the people that
• 31:02
  have come in your shifts and your flat pays and Taya to a
• 31:07
  point like they've been around for a bit longer, like they've
• 31:10
  got big, big war chests. They really just flat player
• 31:14
  have just done a partnership with with Big John today.
• 31:16
  They did do a big John. Yes, Bosh.
• 31:19
  I love that. It's yeah, that is a funny 1.
• 31:20
  So I've actually been like, hey, marketing team, like we should
• 31:23
  do like funny stuff. Like that on the Family Show
• 31:25
  podcast. I think it's better than Big
• 31:26
  John. I mean, come on.
• 31:28
  It's a true story. Yes, Bosh, indeed, it's good,
• 31:32
  but it's actually good. I mean, I think it's good
• 31:33
  marketing. I'm impressed.
• 31:35
  I'm impressed with flat pay in general.
• 31:36
  I think that they're they're, they're doing good things on
• 31:41
  their distribution. Front there's Nordic companies
• 31:43
  don't mess around, do they? They've got they've got good
• 31:45
  strategic planning. So very good.
• 31:47
  Yeah, they do. I I quite like the influence of
• 31:50
  collaborations that we're seeing in payments now.
• 31:52
  There a couple of questions there.
• 31:53
  Going on that, that journey that we talked about, there was one
• 31:55
  thing you could looking back have avoided entirely and one
• 31:59
  thing you could have done earlier.
• 32:00
  What would those two things be? We did, we did some free device
• 32:09
  stuff ironically back in late 24 and sales went like this.
• 32:18
  But if you actually look at the the revenue cohorts and the
• 32:22
  amount of devices that we've lost, like I wouldn't do that
• 32:26
  again, not at least in the way that we did it, maybe with some
• 32:30
  more controls, but like so that's something that I would
• 32:34
  definitely do differently. Is there anything else that I
• 32:39
  would do differently? What else did I do differently?
• 32:44
  What would you do earlier? Yeah, I think what would I do
• 32:49
  earlier? Get to Big John before, yeah?
• 32:57
  Get to Big John first, then we could have done that earlier.
• 33:02
  What would, what would I have done?
• 33:03
  I mean, we did it. We did, we always, I mean
• 33:08
  hindsight. So 2020, right?
• 33:10
  Like there's 1000 things that with hindsight we should have,
• 33:15
  could have done earlier that would have made, that would have
• 33:19
  ended in less pain as a operator of of a payment company.
• 33:26
  But I don't think I would. I don't think I would change the
• 33:29
  journey 1 bit but I genuinely don't like yeah.
• 33:35
  I can see how much you're grasping to say something that
• 33:38
  not having anything that you'd actually go back and change is
• 33:40
  really positive for a founder because most founders will
• 33:42
  always say to us, Oh yeah, there's definitely four or five,
• 33:45
  but like, you're really struggling to.
• 33:46
  Don't, don't get me wrong, like there's 1000 things I would go
• 33:49
  back and change. There really is, but like I
• 33:54
  still wouldn't change the journey that we've been on.
• 33:58
  And if I change those, the journey would be different.
• 34:00
  And so like it's just you're going to get things wrong and
• 34:04
  you're going to make mistakes and you get, sometimes you're
• 34:07
  going to get things really wrong.
• 34:08
  Sometimes you're going to get things really right.
• 34:11
  And the only thing that you need to do as a founder is like get
• 34:14
  up, put 1 foot in front of the other and keep on tracking.
• 34:19
  Like that's it. Because you just don't know.
• 34:23
  Like we didn't know that shift four were going to come over.
• 34:28
  Like could we have done anything to stop that happening?
• 34:31
  No, probably not. We could maybe tried a few
• 34:33
  things like we didn't know that flat pay were going to take off
• 34:36
  in the way they did. Like these things have made
• 34:39
  growing this business harder. That's.
• 34:42
  Life effect, right? You could have done something
• 34:44
  different. They would change the the kind
• 34:46
  of journey that you've come on, right?
• 34:48
  Yeah. I mean, maybe there's probably
• 34:49
  like, maybe one thing like we, we've, we, we had, we had this
• 34:56
  hospitality payments product that was Tabrietti and it
• 34:59
  genuinely solved the number of real pain points.
• 35:03
  And that struggled because of the POS integrations and
• 35:09
  because, and we were like, we need to just be in our, we need
• 35:12
  to be able to grow in our own control, like under our own
• 35:14
  control. And so we went like full
• 35:16
  agnostic payments, sell payments to anyone, which worked.
• 35:21
  That's the revenue going up. But I think we probably should
• 35:25
  have as an organization kept a little like crack team of
• 35:30
  engineers and product people like still focused on that
• 35:34
  product and still iterating on solving those pain points.
• 35:39
  Because now we're getting the POS integrations and we're like,
• 35:44
  we've got some of the features, but we could have had 10 more.
• 35:48
  So yeah, maybe that's one thing I'd change.
• 35:50
  I'd have, yeah, I'd have kept on going deeper in like unique
• 35:54
  hospitality problems like we could, we could have, we could
• 35:58
  have had tokenization ready a year ago.
• 36:01
  It's only like nearly ready now. You've done some cool stuff
• 36:03
  though. I mean, you've got the tip jar
• 36:04
  partnership, right. That's a that's a big one for
• 36:06
  you guys. Big time and that, but that was
• 36:08
  one that we we made sure we bought over and made it really,
• 36:12
  really good. We've had that partnership since
• 36:14
  like 2021. So we were like the first, well,
• 36:18
  I think we're the first ever people to split a tip at the
• 36:20
  point of payment. So like you tipped in a breed
• 36:24
  dog and then the tip component of the transaction would get a
• 36:27
  separate settlement that took tip jar.
• 36:29
  It would never touch the bank account of the business.
• 36:34
  So and like the leave a table stuff we had, we've always had
• 36:38
  this really cool feedback things that you can do with leave a
• 36:40
  table. Like you imagine you leave a
• 36:42
  payment device with guests like, and they're like sharing it,
• 36:47
  like passing it around that you ask each guest like the Net
• 36:50
  Promoter score for that restaurant.
• 36:53
  And like, I think like 80, some 82% of people would answer the
• 36:58
  question and like, that's incredible data.
• 37:03
  And then you could like we did some pretty cool stuff where you
• 37:06
  could link that was actually a really, really cool one where
• 37:10
  you would link the amount of tips generated by a waiter to
• 37:14
  their Net Promoter score, right. And surprise, waiters with a
• 37:22
  high Net Promoter score get loads of tips and the ones with
• 37:25
  a no let no Net Promoter score don't.
• 37:27
  So then your tipping solution is showing you who your best *.
• 37:31
  Right. And that's a really cool thing.
• 37:33
  And that's what I mean. Like there's so much of this
• 37:35
  really cool stuff that I think that in hindsight we would have
• 37:38
  gone, we would have continued to go deep on.
• 37:42
  But I still wouldn't change the fact we grew from 400K to 5
• 37:45
  million in revenue. Like, you know, that's enabled
• 37:46
  us to raise more money and get more resource and hire more
• 37:50
  incredible people. But yeah, but we're, you know,
• 37:55
  we're back. We're Bob eyes are back in that
• 37:57
  direction. And as we kind of look to the
• 37:59
  future, yeah, kind of what do you think the next kind of three
• 38:04
  to five years looks like in the hospitality space when it comes
• 38:06
  to payments? I think about this a lot,
• 38:11
  obviously and like there was something that I saw on Twitter
• 38:23
  or X, whatever you want to call it last night and it was and
• 38:29
  this does answer this connects. There's a thread here to follow
• 38:34
  that was like AI voice that was basically indistinguishable from
• 38:41
  regular conversation. So you, it was like, because
• 38:44
  currently if you ever use like AI voice, things like you talk,
• 38:48
  it processes, it talks back. This is now like conversation
• 38:53
  that you do not know. And so that that for me is a
• 38:57
  huge step change in what AI voice can do.
• 39:00
  And then you hear, and we're not yet seen it, but you hear a lot
• 39:03
  of stuff about robotics that are coming.
• 39:07
  Again, none of us have seen like your Optimus robot and all of
• 39:10
  these things. But you know, I wouldn't bet
• 39:13
  against Mr. Musk and his ability to build things.
• 39:20
  And so like you can't, I think if you, if you like, take that
• 39:24
  thread and you take that line of direction to where it's going.
• 39:29
  Like there's no doubt in my mind that there's like some kind of
• 39:34
  like robe robotics that end up in hospital.
• 39:38
  And, and I think that the AI within those robotics is
• 39:43
  important because I, it has to feel human.
• 39:49
  Is it still unattended if it's a robot?
• 39:50
  But. That is a good question.
• 39:52
  Like is it probably to start with, I don't know if anyone,
• 39:55
  someone should be having this conversation with the schemes
• 39:58
  and yeah, whether it's actually AGI.
• 40:01
  And so that if you follow that thread, it's like, what is a
• 40:03
  pause if a robot is your waiter? Like what is a card machine if a
• 40:09
  robot is your waiter? And like, it would be silly to
• 40:13
  think that the robot would go and pick up a payment device
• 40:16
  when it's a robot and it can be a payment device, right?
• 40:19
  Embedded, embedded with payments, right.
• 40:22
  You embed payments in robots. That's probably it's something
• 40:24
  we could go and raise like 200 million on for sure.
• 40:28
  And whether it's a good idea or not TVC, but you definitely
• 40:30
  raise a lot of money for that idea and like, so you've got
• 40:34
  that and, and then it's paused. Like what is what is a point of
• 40:39
  sale again? If like a lot of the service is
• 40:42
  being done by non humans and it's like, well, it's like a
• 40:49
  like a bunch of APIs that can interact with MCP or whatever it
• 40:53
  is, but that enables like software to interact with large
• 40:58
  language models. And so like, I don't want to say
• 41:04
  that this is like a prediction because I'm not close enough to
• 41:08
  the like coalface of like the people building the robots,
• 41:15
  obviously, and people building the AI things.
• 41:18
  But all I can think is like, if these things do happen in the
• 41:22
  way that people are saying they're going to happen, there's
• 41:25
  going to be a fundamental shift in the way that people interact
• 41:30
  in hospitality environments, in all retail environments.
• 41:35
  And that will change how people pay because there won't be
• 41:40
  interrupts with humans. That's kind of like a crazy
• 41:43
  prediction. Do you think like agentic
• 41:45
  commerce will impact the hospitality industry as well?
• 41:47
  More from like the take away space, right?
• 41:50
  Yeah, I think I think agentic commerce in take away is super
• 41:54
  interesting for sure, because like it's fairly easy for the
• 42:01
  DLM to like know what your favorite Curry is.
• 42:05
  And so you can just say, hey, can I have a Curry ready for
• 42:07
  when I go home? Just does it.
• 42:09
  And like, you're not going to care that much if it's like out
• 42:13
  by a couple of quid, right? But you're going to be like,
• 42:16
  you're not going to be like, hey, LLM, can you go and spend
• 42:20
  10 grand at Louis Vuitton and like make sure it's at my house
• 42:25
  tomorrow and it just comes back with like a bunch of random
• 42:27
  stuff. But I think that the yeah, I
• 42:30
  think, yeah, I would. I would hazard that that is an
• 42:32
  area where I think where, how would I, what would I go?
• 42:35
  How would I go about that? I would.
• 42:37
  So the problem that I always have when I want to order a take
• 42:40
  away is that I can never choose what I want.
• 42:44
  Yeah, right. There's too much choice.
• 42:45
  It's like. That's a new problem.
• 42:47
  That's a new problem, not an AI problem, right?
• 42:48
  Like because you can look at the same menu of someone you've been
• 42:51
  10 times. Yeah, legit.
• 42:52
  Well, you. Don't know what your your mind
• 42:54
  wants you to want to eat? Exactly.
• 42:56
  And so, but I think like, so if you were going to solve for
• 43:00
  agentic commerce working in takeaways, you should first
• 43:04
  solve for helping people choose what take away they want, right?
• 43:10
  Because if you solve that bit, then this would be like it comes
• 43:13
  up with a bunch. Oh, how do you feel?
• 43:14
  Oh, it's like, oh, but like, oh, last night you ordered, you had
• 43:18
  like, I don't know, like a Curry.
• 43:19
  Maybe you shouldn't have a Curry tonight because like, it's not
• 43:22
  so healthy. To have life coaches, yeah.
• 43:24
  Yeah, it comes. It's like kind of keeps you
• 43:26
  healthy. It's kind of an idea.
• 43:27
  I'm literally and then you just talk to it and it like comes up.
• 43:31
  I was like, maybe you should try this place.
• 43:33
  Place. All the ratings of this place
• 43:34
  have gone up loads. Yeah, sure.
• 43:36
  I ordered my favorite kind of stuff from that.
• 43:38
  And then it sits it kind of like flows in.
• 43:40
  I don't know it's. Going to be an interesting
• 43:42
  couple of years. I was going to ask you as well,
• 43:43
  like what you think the future of payments looks like as more
• 43:48
  vertical SAS platforms embed not just payments by financial
• 43:53
  services as well. And that would probably feed
• 43:54
  into a little bit around your wider value added service stack
• 43:58
  and if you've started to embed other products alongside
• 44:00
  payments in that as well. Yeah, we've got, I'll start from
• 44:03
  there. We've got capital so you can
• 44:05
  borrow, trade for three months. We'll lend off a valiant balance
• 44:09
  sheet, which is nice. They make more money on it than
• 44:13
  we do. They do take all the risk and
• 44:19
  like where does the vertical stuff go?
• 44:28
  If you if you, if you look at who who's really one in embedded
• 44:34
  anything, you've got Shopify smashed it with Stripe out of
• 44:43
  the park. Incredible.
• 44:47
  And that is because they built such an amazing product that
• 44:52
  people had to use and they could force people to use shop pay and
• 44:58
  it had a really nice surface that you would have payments in
• 45:03
  and and then you put that in first and then you know, they're
• 45:06
  business owners, so you can give them a bank account, you give
• 45:08
  them a card. Makes sense.
• 45:10
  Then you can spend the money quicker.
• 45:11
  That really works. They even still had a few bumps
• 45:14
  in the road when they launched Omni channel though it was
• 45:16
  interesting like you get this thing so right online and then I
• 45:19
  remember Shopify brought their post station out.
• 45:22
  I thought I was shopping in Finn Astaire and like little surfing
• 45:24
  shop had it in in Bath and they just couldn't get my online
• 45:28
  order. They couldn't find it any.
• 45:30
  They ended up getting a piece of paper out and hand.
• 45:32
  I was like you've got all this Shopify strikes there and you're
• 45:34
  handwriting like this order reference.
• 45:36
  You're giving me like a manual refund.
• 45:38
  I was just sorting it out now but it just everyone's first
• 45:41
  dabble into Omni channel seems to be somewhat painful.
• 45:44
  Hardware is hard. At the end of the day, writing
• 45:47
  software that runs on hardware is fundamentally harder.
• 45:50
  Like making it all work together.
• 45:51
  Do you say you're adding complexity?
• 45:52
  Any software engineer, Oh well, well, well, for sure that you
• 45:57
  know, the more complexity, the more things are going to go
• 45:59
  wrong eventually. And then if you look in the POS
• 46:02
  space, really the ones that have done very well again, like they
• 46:06
  had an amazing product and they really owned the customer
• 46:09
  journey and they were then in a, they were then did forced
• 46:14
  embedded payments. They then added these valuable
• 46:19
  things on top of forced embedded pay your lightspeed, your EPOS
• 46:22
  nails, your toasts and so you're yet to see.
• 46:28
  And then so like where does where does vertical where other?
• 46:34
  I'm trying to think of other verticalized SAS type products
• 46:37
  like other ones that you don't think of, but they are embedded
• 46:40
  payments as your vintage of the world where they get a huge
• 46:44
  amount of value out of split payments and being able to
• 46:48
  onboard small sub merchants very quickly.
• 46:53
  Like that's a huge another huge account.
• 46:56
  It's very similar to Shopify. They've created such joy in the
• 46:59
  world from such small purchases where as far as my wife's
• 47:02
  concerned anyway, like she sells something for like 40P unvinted
• 47:06
  and she's absolutely buzzing about it.
• 47:08
  But she put up. She put.
• 47:09
  That for £1.50 and someone offers 10 pence, Yeah, done.
• 47:11
  I said sometimes if vinted, of course there's a commercial
• 47:14
  angle to it, but also people enjoy the the negotiation kind
• 47:18
  of I think people do enjoy it. I think there's there's a kind
• 47:22
  of somewhat of enjoyment of bartering with people online
• 47:24
  know that you never gonna meet them.
• 47:25
  Face to face. I've got a bone to put Vinta
• 47:28
  because we sold some sort of like baby monitor thing and like
• 47:31
  apparently the casing got smashed in transit so they they
• 47:34
  told us it had been used like it was sealed.
• 47:36
  Box got smashed in transit, £9 down or devastate?
• 47:40
  Chargeback for £9. Not chargeback.
• 47:42
  They just like like no, you're not getting the.
• 47:44
  Person never returned it. Like they take a picture and
• 47:46
  they're like, sorry, it was damaged.
• 47:48
  That we get no, that goes back to AI again, right When you can
• 47:51
  start getting pictures of the delivery that you've received
• 47:52
  from being to use AI and people are making money.
• 47:56
  If you could change one thing kind of about payments though,
• 47:58
  what would it be? If I could change one thing.
• 48:09
  It would be, yeah. I mean, it would be nice if
• 48:11
  everybody was trying to make some profits that we compete
• 48:14
  with. That would be, that would be
• 48:17
  love for the race to the bottom rather than the race to the
• 48:19
  bottom. Like that would be awesome.
• 48:22
  Like that would. Yeah.
• 48:24
  But you know, it's a it's, this happens in all commoditized
• 48:26
  markets. Like efficiency is the thing
• 48:29
  that ends up winning. And like, you know, that's the
• 48:32
  game that you play in unless you can come up with some kind of
• 48:36
  additional value. And hospitality, I know you guys
• 48:38
  have obviously branched down to other sectors, but hospitality
• 48:40
  has traditionally been very culpable of being the the market
• 48:44
  leader of race to the Bottom in a lot of ways.
• 48:46
  Yes, it has and it can be fun working with operators we like
• 48:52
  this is really valuable and like we know your rates are quite
• 48:57
  low, but you know, both 5 basis points are going to do on if we
• 49:01
  solve all these problems and there's a mindset shift that you
• 49:04
  have to educate yeah, that it works like the good operators
• 49:09
  understand the value for sure but yeah, that's been a real
• 49:14
  race I think the. Squares in the sum ups of the
• 49:16
  world and the examples when they first came and did help with
• 49:18
  that somewhat though, because they brought better kit to
• 49:22
  market and was like, well, it's 1.5, it's 1.9% like.
• 49:25
  And these were businesses that were paying, you know, 3540
• 49:28
  perps for legacy solutions that were suddenly happy to pay
• 49:31
  nearly 2% because it was solving.
• 49:34
  You know, there's a bar I went to back in the day and they're
• 49:35
  like Velcro iPad things and the staff would get behind the bar,
• 49:37
  they'd Chuck it against the wall and it would just stick.
• 49:39
  But it was quick in and out. Yeah, it was like, that's pretty
• 49:41
  cool. Like the first time I've seen
• 49:42
  it. And I was like, they had some up
• 49:44
  stuff everywhere. I think it was anyway.
• 49:46
  Yeah. Now before we wrap up, Oliver,
• 49:48
  we've got a favorite part of the show, which is that shelf of
• 49:50
  shame where people nominate something in fintech business
• 49:54
  payments that really grinds their gears, gives them as the
• 49:56
  ick. What would be yours?
• 49:59
  What would be mine? The grinds my gears, gives me
• 50:03
  the ick. What would I put on the shelf?
• 50:08
  The imaginary? Is it a real shelf?
• 50:10
  Imaginary shelf if you brought a physical.
• 50:12
  Icon to play some of that. Is it an old term I was going to
• 50:14
  bring? In a magical shelf, what would
• 50:19
  I, what would I place on on the thing that gives me the ick?
• 50:31
  Just some examples of things we've had.
• 50:33
  Now I can, I can. I was too many.
• 50:36
  I was too many things that I put on there.
• 50:43
  Maybe maybe the merchant statement?
• 50:48
  Merchant statement can you add? Before you had it before.
• 50:51
  We've had it before. It's a good point.
• 50:53
  I think we've had it before. Just how ugly and messy and the
• 50:57
  amount of information that goes on and acquire a statement is so
• 51:01
  so so difficult to understand from a merchant perspective,
• 51:04
  isn't it? Yeah, and it'd be really easy to
• 51:06
  stand. Oh, no, I know exactly what I'd
• 51:07
  put on the shelf. I figured it out.
• 51:10
  Is like all of the fraudsters in like we've heard it before, but
• 51:16
  this is all the things that like people can find really.
• 51:21
  Or maybe I'd put on the fact that there's no centralized API
• 51:25
  for us to report the fraud too, because Bosch, because that
• 51:30
  would be really helpful because like.
• 51:34
  Just singing off the same frauds to hymn sheet.
• 51:36
  Yeah, it'd be great, right? Yeah.
• 51:38
  Cool. Not even.
• 51:39
  Not even hard to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 51:42
  Just one simple API, company name, proprietors, maybe a
• 51:47
  picture of their ID they submitted.
• 51:49
  Bosh it in next time. Cool.
• 51:53
  Oh shit, like yeah you've we've seen your face before mate.
• 51:57
  Maybe you won't get on boarded. I like that.
• 51:59
  I'm happy to. Put that on there.
• 52:01
  Look Well, been a pleasure having you on the show.
• 52:03
  Where can people find you guys? Get in touch.
• 52:06
  Find out a little bit more about Yeti Pay.
• 52:08
  Yeah, if you go to Yeti pay, dot me.
• 52:11
  So Yeti pay. So Gen.
• 52:13
  Z. So Gen.
• 52:13
  Z, Yeah, Unfortunately I'm not. I want to be Gen.
• 52:18
  Z Yeah. Yeti Pay. dot me.
• 52:21
  Follow us on our socials at Yeti Pay or drop me an e-mail.
• 52:26
  Yeah, maybe I won't give out my e-mail on the show.
• 52:29
  Care what? You're sure?
• 52:30
  Awesome. Yeah.
• 52:30
  Well, thanks for coming on. Pleasure, guys.
• 52:32
  Thank you. Appreciate it.