Latest / The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast / How Leaders Recover From Burnout: Escaping the Survival Trap | Dr. Wayne D. Wilson

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How Leaders Recover From Burnout: Escaping the Survival Trap | Dr. Wayne D. Wilson · The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast

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You're putting out fire after fire after fire.
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You're not enjoying your work anymore.
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There isn't a sense of community in it.
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If I were gonna go back I would say the first thing that I needed to
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do is tell somebody I'm drowning.
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I had people that were so angry at me,
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because I didn't raise the flag and say help.
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We would have done anything to help you.
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And they were right.
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You gotta be willing to kind of swallow the pride pill and ask for some help.
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Winning is a combination of small victories stacked on top of one another.
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It's not one big decision. It's not one big thing.
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It's about the small, little, sustainable victories.
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Hey folks, welcome back to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit
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of Winning Podcast. My name is Rick Meekins.
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I'm gonna be your host as usual.
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And in our studio we have Wayne Wilson.
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How are you today, sir?
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I'm doing well, Rick. I am excited to be here in the Relentless Pursuit
1:07
of Winning podcast. Thank you for having me.
1:09
We are grateful that you're here.
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This is gonna be an outstanding show.
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I love I love sh I love shows where,
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you know, we get into the journey,
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we get in a little bit deep. And so I I think we're gonna be able to do that
1:18
on this episode. So, folks, before we get started,
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if you haven't done already, I would be grateful if you would like,
1:24
subscribe, and hit the bell so that you can get updates every time we drop
1:26
a new episode. And without further ado,
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let's get to it. So, Wayne, you've done a lot in your life.
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Give our audience a little bit of background on who you are and what you
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do and why you do what you do.
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My favorite way to start this conversation is the Farmers commercial.
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You know the Farmers commercial?
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Like, “We are Farmers,” that one?
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Yeah.
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Mm. I
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I I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two.
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Right. Yeah.
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I love it. Okay. ~
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Yeah. So so I started my career thinking I was gonna be an advertising agent
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and work in advertising. I started as a mass communications major in college.
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I got involved in all the media.
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~
2:01
Mm-hmm.
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worked at a television station editing film,
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worked as the the editor of of the college newspaper.
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worked was the was the general manager of the college radio station.
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I was getting my fingers in all the different kind of media and I was gonna
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go be an advertising agency. And then I
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Mm.
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graduated from college and my first job was selling advertising and I hated it.
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I hated
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Mm-hmm.
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it. And it was awful. And what really was happening was that God was calling
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me to to service.
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And I came home one day in tears and told my wife,
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I said, I can't do this. I I can't do
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Mm.
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this. and so we designed a transition and I went to the Southern Baptist Theological
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Seminary. I was thought I was gonna go in Christian broadcasting.
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and that was really just a doorway.
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When I got there, I had to take some pastoral care and counseling classes.
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Mm.
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And it was just a requirement.
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And I'm telling you, Rick, I fell in love with those professors.
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The the the leaders in that department were the most authentic,
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genuine, strong human beings I had ever met in my life.
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And again, I came home and said to my wife,
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I don't really know what they do,
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but I want to be like that. I want to be like
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them and I got hooked. I got a job on an adolescent psychiatric unit working three
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to eleven. And I transferred to the Department of Pastoral Care and Counseling.
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I got a master's degree in pastoral care,
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pastored a couple of churches,
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worked in hospitals as chaplains,
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worked in the state psychiatric hospital as a chaplain,
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and then went back and got my doctorate in counseling and organizational psychology.
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And I have been on a mission. I was for 30 years to really help people grow,
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~
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Mm.
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become better versions of themselves and to
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Mm-hmm.
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really honor who God has called them to be.
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And then I got
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Hmm.
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into helping organizations become that.
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And that was a whole new ball game.
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And so I built counseling centers in North Carolina with Wake Forest Baptist Health.
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For almost 20 years, for 18 years,
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I built four different counseling centers in four different cities.
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They were all nonprofit Christian counseling centers.
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and that's how I spent almost 20 years of my life.
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And then Rick, I just did not take good care of myself.
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And at 50, I I burned out. I burned
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Mm.
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and I crashed and burned. It was not pretty.
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I don't want to tell you in their listeners that story today.
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Mm-hmm.
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it was
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just not a good thing. But it's because I did not take good care of myself.
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I did not learn to be a leader who valued self care.
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I gave my all to the mission, gave my all to the work,
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~
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Hmm.
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and did not take good care of myself.
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So that caused the transition.
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I left mental health completely and started
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Mm-hmm.
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pivot coaching and consulting,
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pivot services. It was actually my pivot.
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It was my pivot from
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mental health ministry to coaching.
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And I was coaching nonprofit leaders.
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I was coaching small business owners in the area.
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Uh-huh.
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And one of my clients that I was coaching owned a company called Snider Fleet
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Solutions. And he hired me to coach internally.
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And they didn't have any learning and development
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Nice.
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at Snider. They they had at the time over 500 employees,
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600 employees. They didn't have any orientation.
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Mm.
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They didn't have any training at all.
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Mm.
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About three, four months after I went to work there,
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they acquired about 40 locations.
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They went from 600, 700 employees to 1200.
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Sure.
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And so we went relentlessly building training programs.
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And I founded and built and implemented Snider University,
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which was a learning and development platform across the entire organization from
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employee orientation to executive coaching.
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and did that for almost ten years.
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Now I built and ran that. so I've worked now in a company,
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over a thousand employees in eleven states,
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eighty seven locations. I've built counseling centers in North Carolina area.
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I've pastored churches. Like I said,
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I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two.
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That's
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absolutely amazing. That's absolutely amazing.
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Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing.
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You know, the one one of the things that I always think about w you know,
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when someone goes into coaching is,
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you know, what what is it that you carried forward
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Yeah.
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from like your your experiences?
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my gosh. You know, the one of the things that I'm grateful for is it seems like that
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that one stage of my life prepares me for the next stage.
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Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
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Right. And and I don't think that's accidental.
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And and I what I'm doing now, it takes everything I've learned.
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It it takes everything I've ever learned.
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not only to own and and lead.
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pivot coaching and consulting and to be an entrepreneur and to be self employed,
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but to then coach executives,
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to coach executives in companies that are across this country and
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to lead small business owners and building their own business requires both
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the personal element
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Of being a counselor for 20 years and understanding how people learn
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and grow and being involved in adult education and and in churches
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and helping on how people learn,
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how adults learn. and every everything that I have learned previously,
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I've brought into what I'm doing now,
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which is really an honor. I don't think I could be here had I
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not been starting counseling centers from scratch and building
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Yeah.
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those and
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pastoring churches and leading.
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That's where I learned to lead was with John Maxwell and pastoring churches
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in the eighties and it's just all built on itself.
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Have you experienced that kind of thing yourself?
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I I have, I have, I have. I'm I mean,
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I I even think about like what I'm doing now with with the podcasting.
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I had never ever had any intention of of doing any sort of podcasting.
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Someone had just presented that idea to me.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And,
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you know, because of my experiences with so many different companies
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and so many founders, like as a as a consultant,
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as a coach, you
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Yeah. Yeah.
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know, I'm able to ask, I'm able to understand.
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you know, the guests I think at,
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you know, a deeper level and ask questions.
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You know, even from even from my own experiences.
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You know, I think about, you know,
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going way back, you know, thirty years ago when I had a restaurant.
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You know, there's there's applications from that experience that,
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you know, I certainly bring here into into these conversations.
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The learning, the knowledge builds on itself.
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It does. It does. It's it I think it's it's so important,
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you know, and it's it's so important to be able to,
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you know, take information from one place or whatever and be able to apply it,
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you know, in a in a different area.
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You know, you as a coach, you know,
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you look at, you know, one business in one industry and then you look
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at another business in a different industry and you're just like,
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There's opportunity to use this process or system or resource or whatever.
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Here, nobody's thinking of that.
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And your client gets extraordinary.
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So give you
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so I'll give you an example of that.
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I when I went Snider Fleet Solutions,
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a part of what that business owner,
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that that owner wanted to do when he hired me was to provide learning
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and development opportunities for his mid mid-level managers and his executives.
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That was really the scope of the offering.
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And as we got there, we started asking,
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okay, yeah, that's great for the mid-level managers,
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regional managers, and the directors and the VPs,
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but what what about that first-time commercial branch manager who's never been
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a manager before? What about that guy who's supervising in a warehouse
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and has never led people before?
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And so we started thinking about the entire organization.
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And that led us to really have this sense of purpose.
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Of creating a culture in the organization.
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We called it a people first culture.
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We said if if you take care of your people and you grow your people,
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that the organization will grow with it.
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And so our our method was to put people first.
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You know where I learned people first organizational cultures?
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Pastor in the church. Right?
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Where's that? Of course,
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of course.
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And
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And so people would kinda ask me,
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How do you think about what you're doing of being the director
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of professional development for a company like Snider?
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And I said, I have a congregation of twelve hundred people in eleven states.
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You know, you you you never would have made you know from the outside,
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you never would have made that connection.
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Just like, this guy's just really good with people.
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Never, never, never, never,
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~
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never. I would never have put that together,
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ever. Yeah.
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Amazing.
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Amazing. one of one of you you you're you use servant leadership as your
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as your leadership style
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~ man.
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and and what you and the way you train people.
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First and foremost, for our audience,
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you know, just
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Mm.
10:31
provide some context on what servant leadership is.
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Servant leadership is a term that's been around a long time and
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has taken many forms, right? I learned it I learned it in graduate school.
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then when I moved to North Carolina,
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the the Center for Congregational Health that was part of
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the hospital had relationships with the Center for the Center for
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creative leadership in Greensboro
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Mm-hmm.
10:55
and they and they really focused on this thing called servant leaders.
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And it was really about the leader's primary purpose.
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is to facilitate, encourage, and help those in in the business doing the work.
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That the leader is not the one doing all the work.
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The one the leader is not the person kind of at the top of the hierarchy.
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It's like
11:18
Mm.
11:18
if you take that typical leadership pyramid where the leader's at the
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top and the workers are at the bottom,
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you flip it upside down.
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Yeah. Yeah.
11:27
And now the leader is supporting the entire organization.
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and and equipping and facilitating and empowering and resourcing
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the entire organization. So the leader's primary purpose is to serve,
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not to be the beneficiary of the organization.
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The the leader is always a beneficiary of the organization.
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But the mindset of servant leadership has always been flipping that
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flipping that organizational chart on its head and the leader is serving
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as a point of reference, as a as a purpose.
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does that help is that help? Is that
12:07
It it does, it does. And but I th I think the point of confusion sometimes with
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it is, you know, we still, you know,
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John Maxwell, you know, had said,
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I think it was John Maxwell said,
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you know, if you're a leader and nobody's following you,
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you're you're not a leader. You know.
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And my leader. Yeah.
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The there's there's the there's the vision casting that the leader does,
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which is, you know, the that primary,
12:29
you know, that primary function.
12:30
You know, we've we've got to create a vision for
12:33
people that are following us to do.
12:34
And so, you know, you talked about the upside down organization.
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You talked about the idea of of the leader essentially serving those that
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are in support positions. How does that work with the vision for the organization?
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How does that work with set with setting the pace for how the organization
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is going and where it's going,
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et cetera, et cetera?
12:53
Sorry, these things slip into my head and I can't help Proverbs twenty twenty nine
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eighteen, where there is no vision.
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People wander about aimlessly.
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It it's the translation
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Exactly. Exactly.
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and the message the is when there there's no vision.
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People just wander around. They just wander about.
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They have no sense of direction.
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Yeah. Yeah.
13:11
~
13:12
you know, there's there's a reason why Simon Sinek's TED talk and and video
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on the why is the number one watch TED talk and and YouTube video clip
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in the world ever.
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And that is because he v so eloquently captured the power of a why.
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Why are we doing this? What is this about?
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Why am I here? Why is this important?
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Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
13:38
What are we doing? Why are we doing this?
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I saw this live at Snider Fleet Solutions.
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I mean, you can't make putting on commercial truck tires.
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Sexy. You just can't do it. It's dirty.
13:49
huh. ~
13:50
It's dirty. It's hard. It's hot.
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it happens 24 hours a day. It's on done on the side of the road a lot.
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it's tough work. But when you attach that to the fact that you are a lifesaver,
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that the person showing up in a commercial tire truck,
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changing tires on for a semi-truck on the side of the road is saving lives,
14:11
Mm-hmm.
14:11
and and that the branch manager's
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Purpose is to build a business that supports the employees of that organization.
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And we're here to enrich the lives.
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This was our motto. We're here to go the extra mile to enrich the lives
14:25
of our employees, customers, and vendors.
14:28
We're here to make a difference in the lives of those people.
14:31
All of a sudden, changing tires makes whole new ballgame.
14:36
Yeah, yeah.
14:38
But it's about the why.
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And visions are not a mission statements.
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It's not what we're here to accomplish.
14:43
Visions is why are we here? What is this about?
14:43
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
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What is our purpose?
14:47
Yeah.
14:48
And if you do a vision statement right,
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it captures people's hearts, it captures their imagination,
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it motivates them to get up in the middle of the night and go to work when they
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get called in, when they don't really feel like it and they don't want to.
15:02
When they
15:02
Mm-hmm.
15:03
know why they're doing it and they have a purpose for doing it,
15:06
it changes everything.
15:06
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
15:07
No one
15:08
can do that but the leader. You you can't delegate that to to
15:11
Right.
15:12
other people. The leader has to do it,
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has to communicate it, and it has to be consistent and they gotta do
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it over and over and over and over again.
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Yeah.
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Yeah. It's like remember why we're here,
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guys. Remember why we're here,
15:25
right?
15:25
Remember how we were here?
15:25
Remember what we're here to do.
15:27
Everybody remember why we're here?
15:28
Remember why we're
15:28
Mm-hmm.
15:29
here to do today? Yeah. Every day.
15:31
I
15:31
that that is so amazing. I your your your comment about you know
15:35
how uninteresting changing tires is,
15:37
but you know, the idea of of saving lives.
15:39
That's that's very different. I've I've got a I've got a client where we're we're
15:43
working on his story, you know,
15:46
and and essentially, you know,
15:47
he he sells chicken, you know,
15:48
but the why behind that is an incredible story.
15:52
Yeah, right? Yeah.
15:53
You know, and it's it's
15:54
absolutely I'm I'm absolutely excited to to to work on his project because
15:58
of his why.
15:59
Yeah. See? Even you get excited when the why is clear.
16:03
And
16:03
Mm-hmm.
16:04
and lots of times a leader will get caught in what is known in the four executions,
16:11
four disciplines of execution,
16:12
as a lag measure. That the the money,
16:15
the profit, the you know, the things that come from the business.
16:19
Well that's not the why. That's a that's a that's a result.
16:22
That's a that's a benefit of it's not
16:23
Yeah, it was
16:24
It's not the why. It's it's not why you're doing it.
16:27
So the the question becomes, you know,
16:29
and and you know, we're we're speaking to entrepreneurs,
16:31
the question becomes what you know,
16:33
I mean the the why behind, you know,
16:35
servant leadership. You know, I mean from a tactical perspective,
16:38
you know, it it kind of makes sense.
16:39
We make sure that people have,
16:40
you know, what what they need and and all of that.
16:42
But you know, what is what is the real why behind that?
16:44
What are the and then, you know,
16:46
what are what are the outcomes?
16:47
What kind of benefits do you see for the organization as a whole?
16:51
Rick, I don't know what you I don't know kind of how your process as a as a leader,
16:56
as a coach, as a consultant works,
16:58
but one of the first questions that I always ask small business owners
17:01
and entrepreneurs, one of the first questions I need to understand is so tell
17:05
me why you started your business,
17:07
Rick.
17:07
Mm, mm hmm, mhm.
17:09
And it's usually the third or fourth reason that they give me,
17:12
you know, the the fifth why, you know,
17:13
that game, the five whys, right?
17:14
Yes. Yes.
17:15
It's usually
17:16
the fourth or fifth one. I go,
17:18
tell me why you really started this.
17:19
And then it gets emotional. Now they're talking about family and time with their
17:23
family. And now they're talking about real stuff.
17:25
And I'm like, all right, now that you now right there you can't forget that.
17:29
Now we're gonna build on that,
17:30
right?
17:31
Mm-hmm.
17:31
And when you start hiring employees and you're not the only,
17:34
you're not the solopreneur anymore,
17:36
and you start building the team,
17:37
they're there for the same reason that you started your business ~
17:41
Mm-hmm.
17:42
is to support their family and to provide for their family.
17:45
And they want the same kinds of margin and benefits and time with their family that
17:50
you do. So remembering all of that becomes a a lens to which you
17:54
You remember why we're here and what this is about.
17:57
And now you're serving. Now, now you're showing up.
18:00
And if you're scaling that business,
18:03
you're growing that business, you're not scaling it just for profit.
18:07
You're not scaling it just for that new house or that new car.
18:11
Though those things will come.
18:13
Mm-hmm.
18:13
You're scaling it for people. And
18:16
And when you s when you're serving and you're serving other people,
18:20
y whatever it is that you're doing,
18:22
it it has a purpose that centers around other people.
18:26
And now you're making a difference in the world.
18:28
And that's that that adds a different flavor.
18:31
I think it adds a different flavor to to any business and organization.
18:37
Yeah, yeah, that that that makes sense.
18:38
That makes sense. You it's it's a I I like the you know,
18:42
we're we're here for a bigger purpose,
18:43
you know, than than money. and I I always look there was the story kind
18:47
of escapes my memory, but there was one leader I I learned servant leadership
18:51
at Regent University. I went there for ~ yeah,
18:53
Reason yep, yep, yeah, excellent,
18:54
went there for about a year. ~
18:55
yeah. Yeah.
18:57
And one of the stories that they told us about was,
18:59
I think it was like a paper mill or something like that.
19:01
And the leader always put his employees first.
19:04
He always took care of them. You know,
19:05
he was doing the the the little things.
19:07
And they had, you know, I don't know,
19:08
30, 40 year employees or something like that.
19:10
And one day the paper mill burns down.
19:13
Mm.
19:13
And the leader continued paying his team,
19:16
even though the paper mill was burned down.
19:18
And you know what? They came back and like times are tough.
19:22
And these folks stepped in.
19:24
where they needed to and they work for free.
19:25
You know, they work for reduced pay and,
19:27
you know, they were totally committed not just to the vision for the company,
19:32
but to that leader.
19:33
Did you see this story play out during the pandemic?
19:36
You know, I I think with my company actually.
19:39
with my company, I think my team stayed on,
19:42
you know, longer than they could have.
19:45
You know what I'm saying?
19:45
We had people
19:46
we had people taking voluntary pay cuts,
19:49
~
19:49
Yeah.
19:51
of trading hours of
19:52
Yeah.
19:53
because we were in it together,
19:55
Rick.
19:56
Right.
19:56
Right? We this we were we were in this together and and it was about getting through
20:03
a a really tough crisis as
20:06
Yeah.
20:06
as a team, as a group, as an organization.
20:09
You're not gonna you're just not gonna get that if it's
20:12
If you're not if your business is is about what the owner gets from it,
20:17
you're not gonna get you're not gonna have that.
20:17
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
20:19
You're never gonna have
20:20
If those relationships were transactional,
20:21
you know, you're you're not gonna get that.
20:23
It's like, okay, well, you can't pay me,
20:23
Never you'll never have that. Never.
20:25
then I'm out the door, or you're
20:26
gonna cut my pay, I'm out the door.
20:27
And, you know, I I I think it's and I've I've actually seen servant leaders where
20:33
they helped people that didn't fit out the door and helped them get into,
20:37
you know, a better fit, better fit organization.
20:40
Yeah. Yep. Yep.
20:40
~ it was interesting.
20:42
There was a guy, Jordan, he was he was a
20:44
He was a guest earlier. And he talked about the fact that a woman had to leave.
20:49
She found a job that was gonna pay her twice what he could pay her.
20:53
And she was so upset. She didn't want to tell him that she had to take care
20:57
of her family though. And it was it was really tough.
20:58
Yep. Yep. Okay.
20:59
And he it was one of
21:00
those things where as the leader,
21:02
he kinda when she came in the office,
21:03
he kind of knew already what was happening.
21:05
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:06
You know,
21:07
and then, you know, she had such a hard time.
21:09
And it's it's like it's you know,
21:10
it's it's one of those,
21:12
It's one of those heartfelt stories.
21:13
But the interesting thing is like she was working on a project that
21:17
was just taking a long time to do.
21:19
Mm-hmm.
21:20
And
21:20
they were able to finish the project while she was gone.
21:23
They called her up and said, Hey,
21:24
guess what? We finished the project.
21:26
And she was just as elated as if she'd been on the team.
21:26
Right. Right. Right.
21:31
Happens all the time. Happens all the time.
21:33
I was talking to a manager that had left Snider and was working for another company.
21:38
And he the the the branch that he was a branch manager of,
21:42
he was branch manager, then he went to and went to regional manager.
21:45
The first
21:45
Mm-hmm.
21:46
branch that he was a manager of,
21:47
employees were calling him, they were celebrating that they had hit a new milestone,
21:51
they had hit a new target.
21:52
They were calling him.
21:53
wow.
21:54
And and they were celebrating,
21:55
hey, remember we started this and we're there,
21:57
we hit it and they're where they're calling him.
21:59
Right? And they're
22:00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:01
still thinking about the the the the goal that they had set together
22:05
and chasing it together. Yeah.
22:07
Yeah. One one
22:07
It
22:08
of my friends had had talked about a lot of times,
22:11
you know, if we look if we look at companies the way we look at communities,
22:14
like the old school communities,
22:16
you know, it's just like everybody's bringing their different skill set,
22:20
you know, to make the community survival.
22:22
You know, so it's not just about,
22:24
you know, earning money, but it's about,
22:25
hey, if everybody does their job,
22:27
then the community thrives. If ever if people don't,
22:30
then you know, it's it's a lot harder.
22:32
And it all comes down to the leader.
22:33
How's the leader
22:34
leading that community. Absolutely love
22:36
Yeah.
22:36
that.
22:37
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That sense of community is easy to get easy to get lost
22:41
in a big world, in a virtual world,
22:44
and in
22:44
Mm-hmm.
22:44
a in a world of big corporations,
22:47
it's hard
22:47
Mm.
22:47
because we don't sometimes we don't live in communities anymore.
22:51
We we you know, we we live we live isolated or we li we live in in large,
22:57
large organizations or cities or whatever.
23:00
And we lose a sense of, you know,
23:01
get your meat from the butcher and
23:03
Yeah. Yeah,
23:03
Right.
23:04
we do. We do. We do. It's it's funny like going up to New York
23:07
or something like that and you ha still have like the little shops and you know,
23:10
everybody knows everybody. Even though it's a big city,
23:13
it's it's it's amazing. The the sense of of human touch is you know,
23:17
you can't you that can't be overstated.
23:18
I don't think that can be overstated.
23:19
I don't
23:20
think so either. I don't think so.
23:21
Yeah. Yeah.
23:22
One of the one of the challenges that that we talked about briefly,
23:26
is and I wanna dive into it, is is the survival trap.
23:29
Do you w you wanna explain to
23:29
Yeah. Yeah.
23:31
our audience what that is?
23:32
Well the survival trap The survival trap grows out of transactional relationships.
23:38
Mm-hmm.
23:39
this survival trap is I experienced it.
23:42
I'll I'll I'll give the I'll give the listeners a short version of this story.
23:47
when I went when I when I went to work at running the counseling centers
23:51
for Wake Forest, there was a clear sense of mission.
23:53
I absolutely knew that I knew that I knew what I was there to do
23:57
and and really genuinely knew that God had prepared me,
24:00
designed me, and called me to do this.
24:02
And and and and we did it for many,
24:04
many years. And then fifteen years in,
24:08
now it's now there's four counseling centers,
24:11
there's four nonprofit boards,
24:12
there's twenty some staff members,
24:15
there's payroll, there's there's fundraising events,
24:20
there's there's accounts receivables,
24:22
there there's
24:22
Th there's bit there's insurance billing that has to be done.
24:26
I got lost in the weeds, Rick.
24:28
I I
24:29
Mm.
24:30
run in four businesses and l and being an egg an ex executive over four counseling
24:35
centers, and it had become about the day to day tasks.
24:40
You know, the you get lost in the weeds,
24:42
you know that that idea
24:43
Yeah.
24:43
of being lost in the weeds. And so I went from mission and purpose
24:47
to s just surviving. Just
24:49
showing up day to day and it was just about hitting payroll or or or just about,
24:53
you know, making enough money in the fundraiser to tur keep the lights
24:57
on and pay the rent. And now it's not about those human beings who come
25:00
to the counseling center anymore.
25:02
And I'm and I'm I'm the leader and I'm doing exactly what God called me to do,
25:05
but I I'm I'm not really immersed in the mission anymore.
25:09
I'm just surviving.
25:10
Let me tell you it was not fun.
25:11
And it was, and it made, it made,
25:14
it made it really hard. And that's where I I really started becoming aware
25:19
of the pressure, of of the
25:21
Mm-hmm.
25:21
sense of being under pressure.
25:23
And what is that about? And what
25:23
Mm-hmm. Yeah. ~
25:26
drives a leader, an entrepreneur,
25:29
a business executive who's living constantly under pressure?
25:34
Well, I can almost guarantee you.
25:37
Then in one way or another they have slipped into survival.
25:39
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:40
And what we
25:41
talked about earlier, sense of purpose,
25:43
sense of mission, sense of a vision
25:44
Yeah.
25:45
for the business, connection to the people associated with it.
25:48
They've lost it. They lost track of it.
25:50
If they had it, if they had it,
25:52
I had it, and then I
25:53
Mm.
25:53
lost track of it.
25:54
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And just just because of the
25:56
And if you've never had it, if it's always
25:58
been a transactional business,
26:00
if it's always been y you know,
26:02
build the business, sell it, flip it,
26:05
make money and move on, if it's always been about the transaction,
26:09
then the organization has never had a purpose other than just profit.
26:13
And that is a formula for survival.
26:16
What what are what are symptoms of slipping into that?
26:20
You know, you went into the business with one city organization,
26:23
you know, you're you're totally mission oriented,
26:25
et cetera, et cetera, and you're going on you're and you're on a s
26:28
I imagine you were on a slippery slope and then suddenly,
26:31
you know, you're in a different place.
26:32
Yeah, it it occurs
26:33
over if you if you start a business with a clear purpose,
26:37
a clear why, and then all and then you and then you find yourself in survival mode,
26:41
you're experiencing day to day pressure,
26:44
you're focused on all the challenges in front of you.
26:47
It's it's You're putting out fire after fire after fire.
26:51
You're
26:51
Yeah.
26:52
not You're not enjoying your work anymore.
26:54
There isn't a sense of community in it.
26:56
all you're doing is solving one problem after another problem.
26:59
Right.
27:00
It happens over time. It's it's a gradual slipping of focus and sense
27:06
of purpose and mission
27:07
Yeah.
27:07
and connection to the people that you're doing it with.
27:10
And and it really is a result an end result.
27:13
What you notice, what I noticed,
27:15
what I should have noticed, what I help leaders notice now is if we get
27:20
on three or four coaching calls and all they're talking about is the
27:23
the fire in front of them. They solve one fire,
27:26
they go to the next fire, they go to the next fire,
27:28
they go to the next fire, you're in survival.
27:31
Obviously that's not sustainable.
27:32
I mean, that's something that would lead to burnout.
27:35
That's something that leads to,
27:36
hey, you know what, I quit, I can't do this anymore.
27:38
I can't do this anymore. That is exactly where it leads to.
27:41
I've seen it in I've seen it commercial branch managers and tire centers.
27:45
I've seen it in warehouse managers.
27:47
I've seen it in counseling center directors.
27:49
I've I've seen it in therapists.
27:50
They just get to that place and that's where you're headed is and
27:54
you hear yourself saying it first.
27:56
You don't you don't say it out loud first,
27:56
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
27:57
but you hear
27:58
yourself thinking, I can't I can't do this.
28:00
I can't keep doing this. And and that's
28:02
Yeah.
28:03
You you're you're in deep water when you hear yourself thinking.
28:06
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I imagine you're saying it to yourself.
28:10
You're not even looking to other people to say,
28:13
Hey, you know what, I can't do this,
28:15
right? Right.
28:15
No, I was ashamed to say it out loud,
28:17
right? I mean, I
28:18
I'd started most of these counseling centers and from scratch and built them
28:22
Yeah.
28:23
and and built the team and recruited the not recruited the board members and and
28:27
Yeah.
28:28
cast the vision and and I c how could I s how could I say I can't do this
28:32
Right.
28:32
anymore? I can't say that, right?
28:35
And so you end up isolating yourself out of a sense of shame that that
28:39
That I can't I can't say that out loud.
28:41
I can't admit that. And that's just that just that just adds to
28:45
the complexity of it. Now, now you can't,
28:47
you're thinking it. You're you're hearing
28:49
Mm-hmm.
28:49
yourself stinking it and you wake up.
28:51
You wake up. First thing when you wake up.
28:54
I don't know if you've ever experienced this.
28:55
First your eyes open, first thing you then you think,
28:57
gosh. man. man. gosh. And you're stinking about.
29:01
The the crisis that you gotta solve that day that and you're saying,
29:04
my gosh. And
29:05
Yeah.
29:06
it's just not fine.
29:07
We we so how do how do we get out of that?
29:09
I mean so it sneaks up on us, right?
29:12
So it's not like we're necessarily gonna say,
29:14
Hey, I'm I'm I'm turning into this.
29:16
And because what we do is we say,
29:18
Hey, well, this is just a one time thing.
29:20
You know, I'm just gonna deal with this,
29:21
you know, real quick and I'm gonna move on to the next thing and I'm
29:23
not gonna worry about the relationship.
29:25
that becomes a pattern, you know,
29:26
and suddenly, you know, we're in this pressure pot,
29:27
Mm, mm. Mm, mm-hmm.
29:29
we're in this pressure cooker.
29:30
How do we how do we reverse this?
29:31
How do we get out of that space so we can get back to operating at
29:36
our highest and best?
29:37
Mm-hmm.
29:37
Well, you know how a minute ago you were talking about how
29:41
This occurs over time and becomes a gradual thing.
29:45
Well, that's the way you're gonna solve it.
29:47
I don't know you were gonna say that.
29:48
Yeah.
29:49
You are not gonna flip a switch and change this overnight.
29:52
If I were gonna go back and coach me,
29:54
I would say the first thing that I needed to do is tell somebody I'm drowning.
29:59
I'm drowning here.
29:59
Mm,
30:00
mm.
30:00
and and figure out what that was about,
30:03
right? Because you're not going to get out of that by yourself.
30:06
That that was what tripped me up.
30:07
What what sent me straight to burnout.
30:10
and I had people when it k when it when I when I crashed and hit the wall
30:13
and I and I left, I had people that were so angry at me,
30:16
Rick, because I didn't raise the flag and say help.
30:20
They s they they said, I We would have done anything to help you.
30:23
And they were right.
30:24
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
30:25
So you gotta speak up and and and you got You gotta be willing to kind
30:30
of swallow the pride pill and put the ego aside and raise the flag and
30:35
and and ask for some help. And that can be I've come in a variety of different ways.
30:38
It a
30:39
Mm-hmm.
30:39
variety of different kinds of help.
30:40
But but you can't one, you can't do it alone.
30:43
And two, then it's a gradual process of kind of unraveling what got raveled up.
30:48
Yeah.
30:49
Right. And so sometimes you're doing everything yourself.
30:51
And now you've got to face that.
30:53
I I work with business entrepreneurs who built businesses and then
30:56
now they're trying to scale it and still doing everything themselves
30:59
and they can't scale it'cause they're doing everything themselves.
31:01
They haven't
31:01
Mm-hmm.
31:02
they haven't learned to delegate,
31:04
build leaders, hold people accountable.
31:06
They haven't learned to do that yet.
31:07
So they're
31:07
Mm-hmm.
31:07
doing everything yourself. Maybe it's that,
31:09
right? Maybe maybe you don't trust people,
31:11
so you take everything on yourself.
31:13
I just talked with a lawyer not too long ago who just kind of needed
31:17
to be in control of everything.
31:18
He just was afraid.
31:19
Mm-hmm.
31:19
Right. So it's
31:20
a trust thing. So you gotta kind of figure out what's driving the isolation,
31:24
what's driving the sense of being in the weeds all the time,
31:28
and just kind of start unraveling it backwards.
31:32
and it will ultimately and this is probably one of the things,
31:35
the hardest things I have to do as a coach,
31:36
you can talk about what you've experienced.
31:39
But ultimately the leaders gotta face the reality that you that they've probably
31:44
created this in one way or another,
31:46
or they've been a part of creating this.
31:49
This did not happen to you, my friend.
31:51
You
31:51
Yeah.
31:52
created this.
31:53
Yeah. Yeah, that's a hard pill to swallow.
31:55
my gosh, right? No, it took me it took me probably five years looking back
32:00
on what happened to me to realize,
32:02
I I kinda gotta take some responsibility for a lot of that.
32:06
that that I created that. and so you it's a it's a long it's ultimately
32:11
a long hard look in the mirror and changing some of the way that you lead
32:16
t to fix it, to unravel it. Ultimately.
32:18
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No.
32:20
Doesn't start there, but ultimately it's gonna end in being a different kind
32:21
That's that's brilliant though,
32:24
because I mean
32:24
of leader.
32:24
it's it's such an important lesson,
32:26
you know, and and not just not just for yourself,
32:28
you know, it's like you're you're develop you're gonna ultimately likely develop
32:32
other leaders as well. And to be able to show them and remind them and exemplify.
32:35
I promise you, if you're in surviv
32:37
I promise you, sir, if you're in survival mode and you figure it out,
32:41
one of the things you're gonna do differently is you're gonna learn
32:44
to build other leaders around you.
32:46
And you're gonna
32:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
32:48
relearn to rely on them and treasure them and lead with them.
32:52
And that is the solution. Yeah,
32:54
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's gold.
32:55
that is the solution.
32:57
I think leading from experi or,
32:58
you know, teaching that from experience is is really
33:00
Yeah.
33:01
just so much more authentic. You know,
33:02
it's like one thing to
33:03
~
33:03
do it from theory. It's like, well,
33:05
you know, you're gonna burn out,
33:06
da da da, but something else to say,
33:07
you know what happened to me? I don't want that to happen to you.
33:10
I mean, that's that's an important conversation.
33:10
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
33:12
Do you want to talk about your book?
33:13
Yeah. You you
33:14
Yeah. the the book is the book is something that I give to new clients to say,
33:21
here's what here's where we're headed,
33:23
here's what we're gonna do. And we're gonna I promise you,
33:26
if you're my client, Rick, and you and I are in a conversation.
33:29
I'm gonna look you in the eye and I'm gonna say,
33:30
I'm gonna promise you, we're gonna move you from pressure to purpose.
33:34
Promise you. And we're gonna we're gonna peel the onion and we're gonna
33:38
get there together. And there are five basic things that need to happen.
33:41
I call them moves.
33:43
Mm-hmm.
33:43
They're because they're they're not steps like eight,
33:46
you do this and then you do this.
33:47
It's kind of like a process that you work through,
33:50
and when you get to a certain stage,
33:51
you move into the next one.
33:53
Mm-hmm,
33:53
mm-hmm.
33:54
And so they're move, there it's a movement.
33:56
And and and the first one is you gotta take stock.
33:59
So P I V O T Pivot is both my business,
34:03
my pivot, and it's my process.
34:04
Mm-hmm.
34:06
In quick summary, the acronym PIVOT is pause in the present,
34:11
take stock of what's going on.
34:13
P I internalize that. What are the internal
34:17
messages that you're that are driving that?
34:19
What are the beliefs driving that?
34:21
What are the feelings driving that?
34:22
What are the fears driving that?
34:24
W w what are the values that should be driving that?
34:27
So you gotta do a little introspection,
34:29
a little reflection. So internalize that.
34:32
When you've got a clear picture of the present,
34:35
what's going on, and you've internalized that and you kind of clarified your values.
34:39
Now you can build a new vision.
34:41
There's hard research that says you cannot create a picture of the future until
34:45
you have kind of cleared the cobwebs of the past.
34:49
If you're living in the past, you're living in fear,
34:51
you're living in regret, you're you can't create a new vision.
34:54
You can't do it.
34:54
Mm.
34:55
So once you've kind of cleared the cobwebs,
34:57
now we're going to create a new vision,
34:59
a p a compelling picture of the future.
35:02
It's compelling for you, it's compelling for others.
35:05
Now we know where you're going.
35:07
Now we know your why. Now we know what this is about,
35:11
why it's about. And if you're trying to produce a certain amount of money,
35:15
why is that? And so we're going to create a vision,
35:18
V, P I V.
35:20
Now we're gonna operationalize that.
35:21
We're gonna put it into a strategy.
35:23
We're gonna put it step by step.
35:25
We're gonna operationalize a plan.
35:27
and then we're gonna T, we're gonna put timetable on it.
35:30
We're gonna track it together and we're gonna execute it.
35:33
Snider
35:34
P-I-V-O-T. Pivot is pivot is a process.
35:36
That's amazing. That's
35:40
those pastor skills coming back for you.
35:41
Right on, bro. That's that's exactly right.
35:44
Right.
35:44
That's my sermon in a that's my sermon in a book from page to page.
35:48
And so I'll walk people through what does that look like.
35:50
So you can buy the book and do it yourself.
35:51
and I encourage people to do that.
35:53
And then when you need a guide,
35:55
when you need somebody to guide you through that process,
35:58
help you really dissect the internalization,
36:01
create a vision, strategize it,
36:03
put it in step by step. You need some accountability for the T.
36:07
that's what I'm here for.
36:08
That's what I do. So then then we work the process together.
36:11
I've been doing this now in that one in one form or another for over thirty years
36:16
and I guarantee people results if they'll work the process and commit
36:20
to the commit to the timetable and the tracking part.
36:23
Then then we
36:23
Yeah. Yeah.
36:24
it will happen. We will we will rebuild your life and we will rebuild your business.
36:29
Yes.
36:30
And then name the book one more time.
36:32
The Pivot Process: Five Moves from Pressure to Purpose.
36:36
Awesome. And w where can people buy that?
36:39
Amazon.com, it's in Kindle and Amazon.com.
36:42
It's not been put into Audible yet,
36:44
but it is available in paperback and Kindle version on Amazon.
36:48
Cool. Any plan for audio?
36:49
Yeah, it's just a matter of time,
36:51
Rick. It's just
36:51
Ha ha ha.
36:52
it's just a matter of time. Yeah.
36:54
I'm working now. I'm I'm working through some new material
36:58
and levels of consciousness from David Hawkins and comparing that,
37:02
integrating that with Bob Anderson's work in mastering leadership
37:07
and the leadership circle. And they they they blend so magically together.
37:12
And so now right now I'm working on the that's I call it the leader's ladder.
37:16
And it's really
37:16
Mm.
37:16
about leading from various levels of consciousness.
37:19
Leading from courage and presence is different than leading from fear or pride.
37:25
Yeah, definitely.
37:26
So that's what I'm working on right now.
37:27
So that that that that kinda took priority over doing the audio audible
37:32
on audio version of that.
37:33
Right.
37:34
I get it. I get it. That sounds fun.
37:36
That sounds way more fun. I have a question for you that I asked all of my guests.
37:39
and so the question is the name of the p show,
37:42
of course, is the Relentless Pursuit of Winning podcast.
37:44
winning in and of itself is something that we can define.
37:47
that's can be our our vision.
37:49
the hard part sometimes is maintaining that relentless pursuit,
37:52
because I mean, life happens, you know,
37:54
it's life is unpredictable as as it was.
37:56
What would you recommend to our audience?
37:57
What kind of things would you recommend to our audience to encourage them
38:00
to maintain that relentless pursuit?
38:02
Think small not big.
38:04
you gotta dig into that. You talk about entrepreneurs here.
38:07
Think small. Think think
38:10
I know, right? That's the pain point though.
38:12
Think small, not big. Big is not sustainable.
38:16
Okay.
38:16
Big, big, your big vision of your business and your future is is layer upon layer
38:23
upon layer of success. We all now know this from the wonderful people who've
38:28
researched this and broke this apart.
38:30
Winning is a combination of small victories stacked on top of one another.
38:36
It's not one big decision. It's not one big thing.
38:38
You do not walk out tomorrow and run a marathon.
38:41
You start walking. And it's it's one little step built on top of another.
38:47
It's about the small, little, sustainable victories.
38:51
Think small, not big. The problem with the res the relentless pursuit
38:58
of winning is that it has to be sustainable.
39:01
Mm. It does. It does. It does.
39:03
It is not relentless otherwise.
39:05
It's it can't it'll can't right it'll fall apart,
39:07
right? And we've all
39:08
seen there are so many examples of that.
39:11
It it falls apart because you can't sustain it.
39:13
Yep, yep. Good stuff. Good stuff.
39:15
Good stuff. if someone wants to reach out to you,
39:17
what's the best way to do that?
39:18
Two ways. I've really concentrated my presence on LinkedIn.
39:23
You can see my work around the levels of consciousness.
39:26
You you can get news, you can see newsletters there and posts about
39:30
the pivot process. you can catch videos there.
39:33
You can read more about me there.
39:34
You can connect with me. You can book an appointment there.
39:36
And then coachdrwayne.com it is my is my website that I'm building
39:41
and working on and
39:43
will be the place to connect with me to get podcasts or book an appointment.
39:48
Appointments with me are they are the first two or three is an inquiry.
39:53
I don't charge people for those.
39:54
It's
39:55
Mm-hmm.
39:55
what's going on with you, what do you want,
39:57
and can I help you? When
39:58
Yeah.
39:59
we solve those problems, then I will talk to people about what engagement looks like
40:02
and what it'll cost. But it's just,
40:04
it's just it it starts with a conversation.
40:07
I've been at this too long, Ricky.
40:08
It's about the relationship and it's about a conversation.
40:11
So I want people to just feel free to reach out,
40:14
book an appointment, let's just have a conversation.
40:16
Let's just figure out what's going on with you,
40:18
what you want, and how I can help you.
40:20
coachdrwayne.com.
40:20
That's wonderful.
40:22
That's wonderful. And we'll get that we'll get that on your show notes page.
40:26
Wait, anything you want to lead our leave our audience with?
40:28
Yeah. So just thank you, sir,
40:31
for the focus on leading with integrity.
40:34
I can hear it in your voice. I can tell it in our conversations.
40:37
I I know it's important to you.
40:39
and I I know that winning is important,
40:42
but winning with integrity is sustainable.
40:45
And so I just appreciate how you consistently are bringing your leaders back to
40:51
Pay some attention to who you are and what's most important to you
40:54
and don't lose sight of that. And I appreciate that.
40:56
And thank you for that.
40:57
Thank you. And thank you so much for being on the show.
40:59
I really enjoyed our conversation.
41:00
~
41:01
I've been looking forward to it.
41:02
Thank you.
41:03
Awesome, awesome. And folks, thank you so
41:05
much for watching or listening to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit
41:08
of Winning podcast. We'll catch you next time.